Doomed to Fail - Ep 211: Playing With The Devil's Venom - The Nedelin Catastrophe

Episode Date: July 14, 2025

Post WWII, where did all the Rocket Scientists go? Specifically, where did all the GERMAN Rocket Scientests go? Essentially, they went to the highest bidder; some, like Werner von Braun, went to the US, and others went to Russia. Today, we'll tell the story of the race to get a bigger and better ICBM - and how, in a rush to show strength, an undetermined number of people were reduced to ash in The Nedelin Catastrophe.  Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In a matter of the people of the state of California versus Hortonthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Wait, we are back and we were recording. Taylor, how are you doing today? Good. I just went to the kitchen and I, I know told you that my cousin Lindsay was here. But she brought a bunch of cool stuff from Japan, like cool snacks and stuff. So I'm excited to eat a bunch of cookies that she brought. brought in like little candies and just like weird Japanese stuff.

You know what? Rachel came back from Armenia a little while ago. Oh, yeah. I talked to her a little bit on Instagram, but I thought that was really cool. Oh, nice. Yeah. So she came back with some goodies. One of them was crab flavored lays.

I feel like I've seen that. The legend. How was it? So I didn't try it. And I didn't want to try it. But I asked her how she liked them. And she was like, it is the single most disgusting thing I've ever put my mouth. I was like, cool. It's hard. Like, we got this. My friend Karen always brings us stuff

from Tater Joe's because we don't have one close by. So she brings this like weird random shit. And she brought us this like snack mix and it's like cashews and then like little crunchy things, but it tastes like Tom Yum soup. And like it just, it does. And it's just weird. It's like too much. It's like it does its job too well that you're like, I don't think I can eat Tom Yum soup like that's. Yeah. You know what I mean? Yeah. Some flavors just don't need to be in the format that the world presents them to us in. Yeah, I agree. That's my theory.

Cool. Well, we can go ahead and dive into my story. Let me do an introduction. Oh, yeah, I forgot we have to do those. Hello, welcome to June to fail. We bring you histories, most notorious disasters, epic failures, fun stories, and I am Taylor joined by Fars. I'm Fars.

I am joining Taylor, and we are going to tell you a Fars-oriented story today. Taylor, do you have any ideas what it could be about? Playing crushes. You're so close. You're so close. Rockets. Ooh. Yeah.

I don't know how I ended up on this topic. It was funny. It's like anytime somebody listens to this, I can make, like, they can make a lot of assumptions about what the social media algorithms feed me in terms of random content. That's so funny. Showed up. But I'm going to be covering, well, actually it's kind of topical because we were talking a lot about ICBMs a couple of weeks ago. I'm going to be covering the ICBM program in Soviet Russia rooted around this one particular disaster that occurred that was terrible and gave me a little bit of a goosebumps situation going on.

So that's it. That's kind of the topic for today. That's exciting. I can't wait. Is it like a we almost died? No, no. It's people died and they died in a horrible, horrible way. that I didn't know was possible.

So, yeah, it's kind of a worst way to die kind of a situation, too. Nice, nice, nice. Do you know what ICBM stands for? Intercontinental ballistic missile. Great. Do you know what they're used for? Am I right? Yes. Yes.

Fuck yeah. I'm shooting other continents, volistically. Great. Using, yeah. The idea is you use it to deliver a very powerful, super long range payload to a desired target. Usually the range has to be over 3,400 miles. It needs to be kind of trans-oceanic and all that stuff. So the development of the ICBM really started at the end stages of World War II in Nazi Germany.

We are so lucky that they started as late as they did. Otherwise, we'd all be speaking German. Actually, I wouldn't exist. Taylor, you'd be speaking German. We've talked about this before. Yeah. If, like, they had gotten the nuclear bomb first. They were so close.

You wouldn't be here and I would be speaking German. in. They were so close. It's unbelievable how close they were. So we've all heard the name, Werner von Braun, who was an actual rocket scientist. And sure,

you can be a Nazi and you can still be brilliant because this guy was like brilliant. Like he knew his stuff way before anybody else knew their stuff when he came to rocket technology. And it's just by happenstance that the regime fell. And the U.S. could kind of scoop him up and bring him over there. Because if he had enough time, he would have figured this out.

Oh, 100%. Did you know that Kennedy visited him in Florida the weekend before he died? That's so fun. That would be so fun. What do you think they had, tea and crumpets? He's so cute. Yeah, I don't know. I don't, I just, there's just so much you have to do in your brain to be like,

my back hurts because I was a World War II fighter pilot fighting you people. That's right. I forgot that. I lost my brother. Joe died fighting you, yeah. Yeah, yeah, just in then to be like, but you're the best scientist in the world, so. So I also, I don't know if this is true or not. I also have a theory that, like, if you're at the upper echelons of society and you're just trying

to live your life, you kind of have to be a part of the party. Like, you're like, I'm a rocket scientist. Like, yes, I have to wear this stupid pen and then raise my hand when Hitler's in front of me. But like, I don't know. I feel like someone like this is like too smart to actually believe in. Also, he has to be too smart to believe in it because if you recall, so much of what was going on with the Oppenheimer movie and all that was that like the the Jewish science as they called it was being booted out of the country and only real scientists actually realized like that was actual science and not the nonsense that the Germans wanted them to use so like he had to have known better but I don't know I like I mean it's I mean obviously it's like really fucking complicated but I just got recommended a book um called what we knew about it's called what we knew terror mass murder and everyday life

in Nazi Germany and I wanted to go buy it in a different library and it's not available because a lot of people are reading it currently but I think it talks about the day-to-day stuff like how do you live your life you know if you just want to like be a person yeah yeah yeah but what he was working on at that point was a multi-stage rocket to be able to deliver a bomb from Germany to New York and other primary targets within the US so like this was not like a hairbrain scheme this was like in the works like they were getting somewhere with this. Von Braun, like I said, he was way ahead of the game in terms of understanding multi-stage rockets, which is what you need, right? You have to burn one stage of fuel to get

the thing hard for high enough in the air, another stage to accelerate it towards his destination and more cells. Like, it's a really complicated process and I'm not a rocket scientist. When World War II ended, the U.S. anticipating the need for ICBMs in the oncoming battle against communism, recruited Von Braun along with a bunch of other Nazi war criminals under Operation Paperclip to join the U.S. and furthering his research and testing, which they're like, hey, you can either get hung at the Hague or we'll give

you a bunch of money and land, but you run free range here. And there was like, yeah, I'll take that, I'll take that option. Yeah, smart enough to take that deal at the very least. Yeah. You know, yeah. So with World War II done, the U.S. and the Soviets both got to work on trying

to perfect the designs that Von Braun had started in Germany under the V2 rocket program there. So that was what they had actually developed to be able to the first iteration of an ICBM was the V2 rocket. It was real. It was real. It flew. It just wasn't of the quality and capabilities that

the new era of warfare would actually require. And the goal was to develop something they could promise longer range and a bomber type that was capable of carrying a substantial payload. The V2... When you say payload,

what do you mean? Bombs. A bomb. A bomb. Like that's just like the amount of the weight of the bomb. I'm going to tell you. The amount of bomb venous. I'm going to, yep. That's exactly. So, so here's an example, okay.

When the, when Von Braun developed the V2 rocket, um, the problem it had had to do with its range accuracy and payload. As an example, the V2 was capable of flying 200 miles. It used a gyroscope for targeting, which was an imprecise at that point already a super outdated method of targeting. you could be off by many, many multiples of miles using that. And it was limited to 2,000 pounds. So an explosive that weighed 2,000 pounds was the maximum you could fly for 200 miles on a V2 rocket.

Here's the problem with that. The atomic bomb, the U.S. dropped over Hiroshima, weighed 10,000 pounds. That answers a lot of my question. Okay, cool. Yeah. So it's funny. In researching this, so many common themes that differentiate the U.S. and Soviet principles of how to achieve goals became obvious.

I also found those super interesting because, like, I think, like, being in America, even, like, Europeans looking at Americans or Americans looking to themselves, other cultures are a lot more finesse in how they approach things. And it feels like America is very much, like, a sledgehammer country.

Like, it just, like, just, like, just, like... And it's super interesting because, like, the way I kind of was researching this was, what the outcome of this research came to was that in the U.S., the science of your principles that drove development was, we have a problem to solve, we're going to look at all potential options. We can go in 10 different directions. These directions will get us like 80% of the way there and not completely,

so we're going to start development on those over there. And then we're going to continue finding a solution. And then, like, over time, things kind of match up. And then, like, okay, we went off on this thing and the development here. and it's five years later and now that thing is done now we can come back to it like it was like a very like

let's just dump resources and manpower to think to solve it the best way we possibly can by comparison is the only the Soviet's philosophy was just more power just the most like

brute strength approach to like development out there and that's what they did I was talking about it before like even if it's not true that you're constantly moving up

you still tell yourself you are. So in this case, they actually succeeded. So their logic played out because they won the race to develop the first true ICBM. The Soviets were the first to that target. And by a significant margin, by about a little over two years. So they launched their first ICBM on August 21st, first 1957. The U.S. was over two years late, launching their first successful one in October of 1959. That's even though they had Von Braun and all the Nazi scientists working on this. Oh, wow.

But there was a difference in what they launched. So, again, the Soviets they optimized for faster development, which came with higher risk, and their overall philosophy was just add more power to the thing, and that'll have achieved the goals. So as a result,

their rockets were massive. They were very difficult to store and to fuel. They required a huge support network that could be easily targeted during any armed conflict. and they also had accuracy problems because they never actually advanced the gyroscope technology out of the V2 instead they just added larger warheads

so that the blast radius would make up for the fact that it would be off target by up to three miles that was the way they addressed being inaccurate yeah I guess you can just more power yeah just like if you're going to miss just like get it anyway you know break into 11

yeah this one goes to 11 so yeah there you go the one advantage that the Soviets had was that they were entirely willing to sacrifice as many humans as necessary to their objectives so they had that going for them like generally in most countries that are like that they can just like whatever it blew up it killed 17 scientists get 17 more like yeah the Soviets did realize that their design philosophy was not practical and set to work after the successful launch of the world's first ICBM to improve on that design that was called the R7 by the way that was called the R7 ICBM The new rocket was the R-16, and its purpose was for it to be mass-producible and a huge leap forward in terms of being like a viable war weapon, rather than just like a sitting duck the way the R-7 ICBM was. The differences here were dramatic. So between the R-16 and R-7, it reduced launch time from around 8 to 12 hours to only 20 minutes. It could be deployed from anywhere. It didn't need a massive containment structure and support mechanisms all around it.

and it used cutting-edge fuel and I don't know a lot about that stuff but fuel seems to be like the central toughest nugget to crack when it comes to this kind of stuff which I'm going to a little bit more detail here in a second. Right, because rocket fuel is actually a thing

and it's different than other things. It's interesting because it's actually not even rocket fuel is what little I know. Rocket fuel is also like subdivided into like different categories of rocket fuel between like solid state fuels and liquid state fuels and gases that are formed like it's really these guys like know their stuff

all these smart rocket scientists I think those guys know their stuff so let's get to the disaster on the day of so we can go into details here so October 24th 1960 that's when the R16 was ready to be tested and this was this was supposed to be like a huge deal for the empire and for the Soviet communist movement

the R-16 was supposed to be like I think the R7 is mostly known as like a dick measuring contest against the U.S. Whereas the R-16 was like, no, now we are going to be legit about this. We're actually being smart about it and all that. Does that also imply like a failed R8 through 15? No, no, actually from what I go. So there wasn't R-9, but that, but it's weird.

That one did have a failure I'm going to get into, but that didn't happen until three years after this. So, like, they did use the R nomenclature, but it wasn't sequential. Got it. Very interesting. So this test would go on to become the deadliest accident in the history of the space race since ICBM rockets served dual purposes. In addition to delivering nuclear weapons across the ocean,

they're also used in the initial stages of launching things into orbit. So it's counted as a space race accident. in the run-up to launch the rocket was placed on its launch pad and pre-launch testing as well as launch preparation was being done simultaneously that's a really important point this was because the mission commander there was a guy named mitrufan nederlin and this is known as a netherland catastrophe because it's his name named after him he was a guy in charge and he wanted this launch to occur before the anniversary of the bullshit revolution for obviously stupid reasons or patriotic reasons, whatever you want to call it. Bolshar revolutions in November. This is on October 24th.

We got to rush this thing. We need to get this thing up and going so we can prove to the world that we're the best, that communism's great, and all that stuff. So they were still working on the rocket as the thing was being fueled with the type of fuel that is known colloquially in Russia as devil's venom.

Not good. I mean, oh wow how did you even get there tell me more about it tell me what it does it'll get it so devil's venom is a type of fuel known as hypergolic fuel which means it does not need an ignition sorry which means it does not need an ignition source um so it's super volatile even getting into contact with air we'll set it off like that's the degree of volatility we're talking about here that's why it's called this because literally you'd like move it a little bit and it gets pissed off and it just like fires off right so it doesn't so it's just like the most

flammable thing you can think of this flammable right like being like flammable explodable yeah flammable to an insane temperature right because like things it only burn at the extent to up to the heat that it has something to consume to generate the heat in this case this is super super flammable but it also doesn't burn off immediately so that the fire can keep growing in intensity because it has a huge fuel supply beneath it. So the fact that this thing doesn't need an external condition source was great for rockets because it reduced the amount of internal mechanisms the rocket needed to actually do its thing. So that was the idea behind it.

By the way, that's part of the reason why the U.S. was late on the development. That's why the U.S. was two years. Actually, I didn't even think about this until just down. There were two years late to launching the first successful ICBM. using a liquid hypergolic gas source fuel source

but they worked on that for those two years and these guys just worked on launching something with big shit strapped at the side of it instead of working on this process which they then try to do a year after the U.S. at launch

so that's actually a really I didn't talk about that until just now it was just like we want to show as much might as possible right? That's it. Yeah even with a nuclear explosive. The biggest nuclear bomb ever tested and exploded was the Tsar Bomba, which was a Soviet bomb just to show how big they could build it.

So the team is working on the rocket while fuel is being added to it and they're running their tests. They're doing pre-launch plus testing all the same time. The analogy Chachabit came up for this for me because I asked it to

is it would be like you trying to jumpstart your car while a mechanic is working on the engine. The gas tank is being fueled and you tell like a hundred people to come just like check out the car look how cool this is that's kind of it this actually it's actually another fun one i said to come with several of these pretty good so this is another fun one it goes he goes doing doing all this is like trying to fix a bad wire on a live grenade while the pin is pulled and also telling everyone to come watch you do it i like that like hey everyone come here this can't be too bad so while this thing was

being loaded up and worked on a short circuit triggered a spark in the main engine which was directly over the main fuel tank which given the volatility of the fuel was enough to set it off I'm going to give definitions here in a second I actually didn't know what this means

in an instant like literally in a split second somewhere in the range of 54 to 300 Soviet rocket scientists and mechanics were vaporized I'll explain that range in a bit But as an example of a hot this thing got, these fuels produce temperatures between 4,500 and 5,800 degrees Fahrenheit. Wow.

At that temperature, you're not being burned. You're literally just turning into dust. Right. You're just gone. So this is interesting. It produced the same, sorry, it was a little, it actually produced more heat. It produced a little bit higher heat by several hundred degrees than the heat produced by the nuclear bomb dropped on Hiroshima. oh my god

is that crazy that's wild how does the sun is it like so so the Hiroshima bomb here's the thing you can't

for the maximum damage you can't have it touch the ground it has to blow up about the ground by the time it gets to you it's what started as a sun becomes like several thousand

degrees Fahrenheit got it so what's interesting is nobody at this time knew about this And that's why the death ranges are so vast. Did you just say where they are? Where are they?

They're not in Russia. They're in, oh, man, it's one of the Soviet bloc countries like Kazakhstan or Kbekistan. So it was somewhere around there. Like it was not in Russia. Russia hid the disaster until Gorbachev with his like theory of openness revealed 30 years after this date in 1989 what happened. And then once the world heard about it, they started seeking out people who might know more about the deaths and the death ranges and the estimates and the Russian government officially provided.

The Russian government officially said 54 people were killed. Some estimates range between that number and 300. So it was a pretty sizable difference. Like the guesses that I'm hearing from like somewhat legitimate bodies that research this stuff, it was probably somewhere in the 120 some odd range. Russia at that time or Soviet Union they didn't tell anyone and what they instead did was some of these really high power Soviet nuclear rocket scientists

whoever he's going to miss they're going to know they didn't show up to work the next day they were told what they told the public where they told the families is that so they died in a plane crash they died here they came up with like nonsense reasons why they died that was how they got around that wow

yeah yeah And you can't, and you have, you can't, that's it. Yeah, what do you do? Yeah, you know, you're not like, follow up. Yeah, exactly. Show me the plane. No, it doesn't exist. Yikes.

So the program continued. It only took about four months after this disaster for the Soviets to actually successfully launched an improved version of the R16 rocket. And it became the first mass-producible rocket for ICBMs for delivering people in cargo. People was then being used for the space, not like, you know, Yeah, like nobody's flying on it. We're not taking it to like a vacation. Right.

Yeah. Interestingly enough, I said this a little earlier. So there's another rocket called the R9 that went into testing three years after this event. Three years after the Netherlands catastrophe at the exact same launch site in the country that I can't recall anymore where this thing happened on the exact same day, October 24th, that also blew up due to an air and spark. killing seven people on the platform. Oh, my God. Yeah, so apparently from that day forward, the Soviets and now Russia, they will conduct no testing on October 24th of any year.

It's called Black Day. Like, that was the problem. That was the problem. The day was the problem. That is so funny. That is like, that's obviously not the problem. I think they should have testing with less people next to it. Maybe that.

You know what's funny is the U.S. is not out of the woods on this one. So the U.S. actually had another disaster that's not as deadly as this, but it's pretty dang close. It was about 52 people died in Searcy at Arkansas. Back in the day when an ICBM was being maintained or repaired or something, inside of its silo, given the fact that it had to have fuel dumped and that there was bad ventilation, and there was inside of a silo. There wasn't room to do stuff. They caused a spark that lit up vapor gases around the silo and killed a,

a shitload of people and blew up the silo. So it's not a purely Russian thing. I mean, this was probably, I don't know. You're playing with really dangerous. Exactly. Exactly. You're really, really, like, I don't know. Like, it's not like

the safest thing to me around. Right, right. Wow. So, yeah, I thought that'd be fun. That's my story for the day. Hopefully people enjoyed it and learned a little bit of something. yeah that's all I got I hadn't heard of that

I love finding disasters that I've never heard about it's like the most excited I get yeah that is wild it's just so wild that it's like I don't know that they didn't tell anyone for so long you can keep that

you know people must have seen it and heard it and like all those things you know I love the idea of these guys being in the break room the morning of and one guy like getting his coffee been like hey Gregory do you know where we put the devil's venom today like you know what I mean like it's just like how do you even talk about this thing

yeah why were there's so many people around because they were doing the testing plus the pre-launch preparation simultaneously this guy was like being a ballbuster about hey we have to launch as soon as we possibly can so it's celebrated

for the Bolsheviks revolution right he was apparently a part of the revolution like we get a really personal tie to it and so yeah and that's like that's like literally exactly what happened not exactly but very similar to turnible they were like well we can't stop having our media celebrations yeah yeah so let's just make sure that we continue we're able to do that even though the air is poison you know yeah cultures like that it seems like the iconography and like the um imagery of things it's like really really important the optics of things are really it's better to just get it done than it do it right it sounds like exactly

Exactly. I mean, you're just going to like pretend that it's right anyway. I will say that our parade, our military parade, seemed like it was kind of bummer. It did seem, it did seem kind of lame, which is, you know, a thing. But that's not, we're not, that's not our culture. But also, also like, yeah, yeah, like, yeah, bad vibes all around. But also it's like, dude, the coolest part about the U.S. military is that there's like

$50 trillion worth of equipment that we will not know our grandchildren will not know existed, right? Yes. Sure. North Korea, it's cool. He can put an ICBM out there

that's super cool, whatever. Like, they think that's great top technology. Like, we've created stuff that we think are aliens. You're going to launch that and show it to the entire world. Yeah, exactly. They're like showing you like three decades old stuff.

Yeah, like that helicopter that crash we're trying to kill bin laden i didn't know there was such a thing as a stealth helicopter that flew below radar and like and then and then when it crashed they had the premise of mind to blow it up like it's cool yeah yeah that's what's metal about it's not the fact that we have bombs and stuff it's the fact that there's a crazy technology going on that we don't know about exactly that like it's a secret that that is cool um yeah i see like well i haven't said i don't say anything obviously like crazy but i do see some things every once in a while like that five because we're right next to the base here in the 29 Palm's base and I'll see you know

they had those like helicopters that have like instead of the one thing it's like the two wings and they each have like a fan yeah I see those a lot and sometimes even just like on the road like going in and out of town they'll be like a convoy just like the biggest fucking tanks I've ever seen you know just these like huge machines that you just I can't even imagine how giant they are and they'll be like bringing them into that town I was like looking at into the B2 bomber. I forgot how old it is. It's design is like 40 something years old.

And that's what made me think about this too, was when they used the B2 to go drop the bomb on Iran. And I was like, all the news source were covering the B2, it's capabilities and all that. And I was like, wait a minute. So everybody knows this thing exists. What else is there? Like if we all know it exists,

there's got to be some crazy stuff out there. Yeah. Yeah. all in like maybe under the bombs in the silo there's like an extra part where it's like that's where they're doing the alien technology very fun very fun stuff um anywho that's all i got what do you got taylor um i don't have anything else but yeah the stuff that we haven't heard of would be awesome in the cover so if you have like a niche disaster that you've heard of please let us know we'd love to dig into it the assort 72 was devised

developed in the 1960s, that thing went mock four or something. Like, remember I covered that in an episode. That's a blackbird. And like, and like, like, we, we did that in the 70.

Like, there's got to be such crazy stuff out there these days. I mean, yeah. Yeah, if you work for the NSA or the CIA, write to us in Tulsa, I mean, I can't say this out a lot.

I'll probably get thrown into it. I mean, they're not going to. But, but no, but that's so, I don't know, that's exactly right.

that's so interesting because you're like if we could do that then just imagine what we can do now you know that we like don't even know about yeah or just robots fighting each other and oh yeah they'll die and the robots keep fighting to those one robot left and then he says I'm lonely and dies there was one thing I was listening to a podcast about or AI which was like we keep thinking about AI replacing us and about how it's like humans but it was like they can't actually create anything that doesn't already like they don't have the capabilities like think outside of the parameters of the universe that like they live in whereas humans that's like 95% of productivity is like in that realm of like just envisioning something and then

creating it so I mean I hope so I think well actually my son who's here who was here just I just left she's a professor and she has her students do like really interesting things with AI like projects like because just having the bright papers now is boring and like impossible you know so she has them doing like art things and like other things because otherwise they're just writing the same boring paper because everyone's using chat she's right yeah yeah what do you think of AI is going to be able to make a podcast as good as this probably Taylor no thank you we are we are the value ad we are the value ad um wow thank you so wait I have one more thing not that I don't should that I'm putting together

other episodes that I'm going to put out in the middle of the week that are not that are just like compilation episodes because I did a thing where I'm like if you're interested in different parts of history we actually can tell like a cohesive story you just have to like pull them from there so I labeled a lot of our episodes and there's like a lot of labels obviously but I have one that I will do soon on medieval stuff and if you actually go from the very beginning of the medieval period to the Renaissance, we have like over 10 episodes that cover medieval history.

That's great. But it's cool, right? So we have the Nika riots at the very, very beginning. We have Olga of Kiev, the Battle of Hastings, Tower of London, medieval executions, Chaucer, Pojia Brocolini, Peasness Revolt, the Ball Des Arzance, Jan Ziska, and Jack Republic, the Guantches, and then we'll end with the modulisa so i'm going to list all of that out and then we have like you know engineering disasters we have a bunch of those and murders a bunch of those and like so i'm going to kind of like putting them into little little frames and sharing that with folks if

you haven't gone back and listened to everything maybe there's some stuff that you can like in there so that's yeah taylor has had a much more cohesive storyline than i have um but there's a lot of like i mean there's just there's so many you know some of the stuff that like i i I think maybe I'll do the engineering list. Steve Jen, that's like the Bhopal disaster, that mall in Korea. Yep. Yeah. That, um, the Hyatt, like there's so many.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, bad idea. Cool. Sweet. I'll be doing that. Well, thank you as always, um, to you, Taylor.

And for the people that are listening, please write to us at do an infallpot at gm. Gmail.com. Find us on the social at dunefel pod. Tell us what you think. Tell us what you don't like or do like. We'd love to hear from you. Cool. Thank you.

Sweet. Cut it off there.