Doomed to Fail - Ep 24: Axe-executioners and Moor-ders: Lizzie Borden and The Moors Murders

Episode Date: June 12, 2023

This week Farz goes back across the pond to tell the story of the murderous pairing of Ian Brady and Myra Hindley. These two attacked and killed children across Manchester and buried them in the moors (which is British for super big field). A Neo-Nazi found his match in a girl who would do anything for him, takes one to know one.  This is the story of the Moors Murders. Then, Taylor tells the truly American tale of Lizzie Borden and her axe (maybe!?! We don’t know that she did it for sure and we will never know!). On a Tuesday morning on a busy street Andrew and Abby Borden were brutally murdered with an axe before noon! Could it have been their daughter?Everybody together!Lizzie Borden took an axeand gave her mother forty whacks.When she saw what she had done,she gave her father forty-one.https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpodYoutube - https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpodPhotos of Lizzie & the Borden home via the public domainBorden house via historicaltranscripts.comIan Brady and Myra Hindley via WikipediaSome Sources:Was Lizzie Borden a Victim of Incest? - Lizzie Borden Society Forum"The Legend of Lizzie Borden" (1975) Starring Elizabeth MontgomeryEliza Darling BordenLizzie Borden Society Forum - Index page11 “Facts” About Lizzie Borden Debunked - Criminal ElementHistory's Mysteries The Strange Case Of Lizzie Borden (History Channel Documentary)https://archive.org/details/lizzie-borden-had-an-axe.../Lizzie+Borden+Had+An+Axe...+.m4vLizzie Borden home floor plan.The Trial of Lizzie Borden Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In a matter of the people of the state of California, first is Hortonthall James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Record this computer. Reporting is in progress. And we're alive. Woohoo. So, yeah, okay, let's get started.

Welcome to... I don't need to clap. Welcome to... with doom to fail the red flaggy podcast where we explore a historic and true crime story about red flags that we're being ignored i'm forest joined here by taylor hi taylor hi taylor hi we don't have to like super rush i'm fine so aren't you what are you doing after this you're doing a recital no i'm going to palm springs for a drag queen bingo with girl scouts but it doesn't start until one and we're totally fine so i don't have to leave for like two hours so it was

fine if fox news heard you were doing that you'd be the most famous woman in history of america i love the girl scouts the girls scouts are very progressive like they have god in their pledge but they're like you don't have to say it's no big deal like they are so super cool with it the boy scouts are like you can be any religion as long as you're our religion you're like what so it's really gross actually the best it's real gross yeah um do we want to share the amazing news that happened this week with our listeners what happened pat robertson died oh god i know how fucking awesome the world literally got a little bit brighter just like a little bit better god what a fucking asshole i know i'm so i said this on my instagram but you know for me it's

such a bummer that like i feel like when you die it's just like lights out and there's no like realization but i wish i was like but also like did he really believe that shit i don't know what piece of shit he just wanted to steal money from people hold on i'm looking up my favorite pat robertson quotes about feminist abortionist and gays that we did 9-11 ah the gays are the ones that did 9-11 that's what it was oh 9-11 it was so gay what a gay day yeah god what a scumbag because the influence it's not like okay one person having that much of an outsized influence on like dude like so much of like the shitty things about our society is because people listen to him i know i know he goes okay so here's what he said he goes this is pat robertson's

quote i really believe that the pagans and the abortionists and the feminists and the gays and the lesbians who were actively trying to make that an alternative alternative lifestyle the ACLU, people for the American way, all of them who have tried to secularize America, I point the finger in their face and say, you help this happen. These are on 9-11. The ACLU? I mean, like, I do feel like the ACLU waste money because I donated $20 like 10 years ago and they sent me a letter every single day. So I'm like, there's no way that the amount of mail you've sent me costs less than $20.

But and then then you have people all now, all the Republicans out there, or whatever being like we don't want any diversity we don't want any like other lifestyles besides our own which sucks do you know what David Chappelle does that I think is like really funny is he will donate a dollar to Republican candidates and then have them spend all their money mailing him letters asking for money which is like it's kind of funny do you remember when all those K-pop fans bought all the tickets to Donald Trump's event yes there were free tickets so they like reserved all of them they thought that

thousands of people were coming and like not thousands of people were coming so good so good glad pat robinson is dead yes yes the world is a much better place cool let's go ahead and dive right in so who goes first today i believe you do i do okay and okay so i didn't i forgot to think about what my drink was going to be But I think I have one. Do you want to give me yours first? Yeah. My drink is like old milk.

Like imagine that it's hot and the milk has not been in the fridge for a while. Kind of sounds good. Ew, no, it doesn't. It's going to make you sick. It's going to some sugar. Beat the curds up with some sugar. Oh, my God. I want to throw up.

No. Okay. I am going with a beer that I never find, but I was in love with when I was living in Florida, Boddington's. It is a Manchester beer. You said it before. Wait, did I do? Oh, my God, I've done Manchester before, haven't I?

Yes, because you know why I know that? I have at one point, I was like, oh, I'm going to write down a list of what the drinks are, and I only wrote down one thing, and the one thing I wrote down with Boddington's. I think I even have it right now here. Yeah, January 21st, Boddington's Brewery and Manchester. Taylor is holding up her diary to show me this. That's incredible, Taylor. I'm going to write today's date as well.

Just write. times two and then for today's day I have I have this whole page for times that you mentioned Boddington's so good it's so hard to find I don't know why it's so hard to find but it's delicious so I am I picked Boddington's because my story I guess like the last one is based in the UK it's based in Manchester so God I'm so it's weird. I totally forgot I did that other story that was in Manchester. Yeah. Memory is a can you do the whole thing in a Manchester accent? I don't know what a Manchester accent is. I don't either. I feel like I want to go a little bit of Boston, be like Manchester.

Boston, yeah, yeah. The problem is that if you don't nail it, you just sound stupid. That's the issue. So I'm actually going to go a bit historic with this one. So I'm going to do a really, really old-time one. It's a super, super famous one. It's a super famous crime that happened about 60 years ago in Manchester. Despite how famous it is, I really didn't know much about it. I don't know how much you know about it, but I'm going to be discussing the more murders with Ian Brady and Myra Henley. Are you aware of these guys? A little bit. I feel like I know weird stuff about Myra Henley later in life. Is she still alive? No, no, no. She died a long time ago, like 2005 or something. Okay. I know a little bit. Tell me more.

Yeah, so you probably know, because I know we, again, we have the exact same podcast on it. So, like, you probably also listened to the Fred and Rose West episode on last podcast. And Rose West ended up in, like, a sexual relationship at one point with Myra because there was the two most, yeah, there were the two most notorious women in UK history. And Myra's like blonde, right? Or like she was. I'm going to get into that. Yes, that's the thing that happened later in life that I remembered.

Okay. Exactly. So she was not blonde, naturally. But every foot you find of her, she is one. But I'll explain why that was here. No one really is. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah. I'll explain why that is. I'm going to meet my phone so people can not hear that. And I'll continue on. So we're going to start with our main antagonist of the story. Wait. Yeah, antagonist. It's bad.

Protagonist is good. Yeah. Yeah. They're antagonists. They're not good people. So, okay, Taylor, for usual, I'm going to go ahead and just say that we are probably going to disagree on a lot of things here. I am going to err on the side that I thought Myra was a complete and absolute monster. And society seems to think that, like, she was just some poor put-upon girl and Ian kind of womaned her.

And it's like, it's a crazy, crazy, whatever. Tell me what you think about it when we get to it. But we're going to start with our story with Ian Brady. So Ian was born in Glasgow, Scotland, in 1938. He was raised by his mother and pretty much didn't know who his father was at all. He was a pretty precocious child, and he was considered above average intelligence. So he was accepted into a gifted school that was called Shawlands Academy. He would do these, like, stupid petty crimes, like stealing things here and there.

And ultimately, at 15 years old, he ended up leaving and starting to work in various odd jobs. I guess like back then I mean yeah it makes sense right like nine year olds were chimney sweep so I guess you're at 15 you just retire out of school and just start working makes I mean that's what you do in old time of England

I guess yeah there's like either you go you go to like university if you're rich other than that you just like get a job in the coal mine I would have been there slipped to mine I would have been a great chimney sweep

I think that'd been so fun with a page boy hat I'd wear a best and I had a pocket watch already so I can wear the pocket watch and the best in a page boy hat and do like a little chimney thing Well, that's definitely something you would have had to do when you're a child because you're way too big now to do that.

You think I'm too big? Yes. I don't know. I've never been in a chimney, but I feel like you're very broad. You're broader than a chimney. But also, I have no idea. Sweet. I think that's sweet.

Thank you. You no longer have the body of a nine-year-old boy. Fuck, damn it. These opportunities are ruined for me. So, ultimately, at some point, Ian would end up moving back in with his mom. And at that point, she will have left Glasgow for Manchester, England, and picked up a new life there. Again, he would just keep doing these stupid petty crimes and keep getting locked up over and over again. At around 19 years old, he's released from jail.

He was apparently there for a couple of years. Apparently, he got, like, he had bad treatment in jail. Like, he got the shit kicked out of them in jail. He was a strong little kid, right? And he decided when he got released from jail, that, okay, that's it. I'm going to button up. I'm going to go on the street and arrow. I'm going to figure my life out.

This is going to jail and do these petty crimes. That is not the route for me. And so he started bad at it if he keeps going to jail. I don't know. If I committed crimes when I was 15, I'd probably go to jail too. I bet I can get away with a lot of crimes now. Like, what should I do? Should I embezzle something?

I bet that I can embezzle a billion dollars. Yes. Remember when I put that posted on your desk that said, to do, plan murders, limit murders. I do remember that. I don't think about that somewhere. Okay, so we'll hold on the abuzzlement of the murder part. So he taught himself how to do what's called them. They call it bookkeeping, which I think just means accounting, right?

Yeah. Yeah, so he self-taught himself bookkeeping. He would study the library and do all this. Again, he was a really precocious kid. He would read a lot and all that stuff. And ultimately, he ended up getting this job at some random chemical company doing their accounting work. he would be really into nazi stuff so so you know it's funny because wait is it's post nazi this is post world war two right this is right after world war two

okay they just lost but he still yeah well okay but so okay so at this point when i was researching this i was like okay yeah obviously like world war two ended like five six seven years ago and you're in England who was just carpet bombed by Nazis. So you probably have some fascination with who were these people? What was it all about? Like I understood it at this point, more of like he's a historical dude who wants to know what happened, not like he likes Nazis. Later on, going back to the blonde hair thing with Myra, my opinion changed. So there was one other thing that I couldn't verify because multiple sources said different things about this. Multiple sources would say either he did or he didn't, torture and kill a ton of cats and dogs this time when he was a kid.

I'm leaning towards no and I'm actually basing that off of what Ian himself said because later on we'll find out that he was pretty vocal about everything else. It was kind of like when Jeffrey Dahmer was caught and they were like, did you do this? one he's like no i mean i told you everything i would have told you if i did that one it's like right i have no more secrets yeah exactly yeah exactly so like in this case he's the one who's like no i like loved the animals like i never would have heard of an animal and everybody else's like no he was a serial killer who like killed all these dogs and did all it's like he probably didn't we probably you probably just made that up because you're like we have to have some pattern here yeah i don't know that's right yeah or maybe he like

killed a dog but like an old time you way you know like you didn't like take your dog to the vet to be put down yeah you just hit it with a rock it's all day you know what's funny is um is luna's sleeping right there uh so we're not gonna kill you you're not so okay tell you tell me if i'm wrong about this so joe our friend joe conti is here visiting saying in austin it's incredible known each other like at this point this configuration people have known each other for like 10 11 years um and joe shows up and he's like i'm gonna take him out we're out in east austin if you're in Austin, we're going to go to Kitty Cohen, if you're pulling with that, and then La Hali. And Joe is like, my only request is don't bring your dog. You shouldn't bring your dog.

We're going out, when I have a good time, don't bring your dog. And I was like, there's no chance of not bring my dog. Like, why on earth would I go out and not bring my dog? It makes, everything in Austin's outside. Everybody brings their dogs. Like, why would I not? And like, it just blew his mind that I wouldn't bring my dog. And it's like, no, of course. And I did. And I did. And it was a great time. And she socialized. And she had a great time. It was really fun, but I do think that now we infanticized dogs in a way that they probably didn't when Ian was growing up in England. And so he probably did just bash of dogs head in with a baseball bat. Exactly. That's what that's exactly what I was thinking.

Like, it's different. It's different. It's definitely different. That was the most long-winded way of just circling back to he just cracked a dog's skull open at some point. So we are going on to, so that's our wrap up of. ian brady just generally speaking smart precocious might be crazy might not sometimes a fuck up yeah yeah myra is our second person in this equation and she was actually born in manchester or just outside of the little town in 1942 so that would make her four years younger than ian it sounds like her childhood was mostly just puncturing with abuse in general poverty

her dad sounds like he was like a military bro and kind of expected admire to be super super tough and just like agro and all that you know it's interesting because like psychologists after the fact would say that the way her dad treated her or told her how to treat others made her um desensitized to violence and emotionally distant and this stuff but like really all it was was like hey if someone hits you you hit him back twice as hard like it was one of those like that's what it actually read like it wasn't like uh like anytime you're upset react to it aggressively with violence like that's not what it was it was don't don't be uh stepping whatever was word uh doormat thank you um i feel like have you have you seen the stuff that arnold's

hortzenegger has been saying lately about his dad no um because he's pretty much like my dad was like a Nazi because it was that time. And he came home and he was a terrible, terrible broken person. And he like, be the shit out of us and was an alcoholic because of the trauma that he went through. So, you know, he was like, he's like, his caution to America is like, stop being assholes because you're going to ruin generations of people, you know, with, with this like anger and this hate, like no matter what happens. And like in the worst case, which is like World War II and concentration camps and all of those things are like best case, like you have these like lives that are just like horrible and like abusive and everyone's angry.

So even on like the, you know, English side where they won, like the trauma that those dads went through and then they had to like come home and like even on our side too. Like my great grandma had three brothers who went to World War II, came home, never did anything else. They were PTSD to the end of their lives. They lived in her mom's attic. They called them the three kings. They just hung out in the attic because what they saw was so awful, they couldn't do anything

else. That's wild. You know? So I just coming home from that. Like one thing that I've learned a lot of recently is ketamine treatment. So apparently in Austin, there's a lot of these ketamine clinics that apparently are really, really good for working through. Does your shirt say future corpse? It does.

That's my future. It's so ridiculous. Anyway, also, your story there just reminded me of that one scene in, oh God, Schindler's list, where they're burning the piles of body. at Auschwitz and that one Nazi soldier takes his out and just starts screaming into the sky because like I don't know it feels like as a human you know when everything's wrong even if you're a Nazi yeah and I mean so many of them had to be I mean they're all bad 100% but some of some they were on so much meth and so many drugs and so drunk and all these things to be able to do those inhuman things yeah well you know well shit sorry okay going back to future corpse has an awesome sure we should

me, like, I'm going to figure out what you bought that and buy that shirt. It's from a woman, her Instagram is The Good Death. She writes, she's a former mortician, and she has a YouTube channel called Ask a Mortician, and she wrote a great book called With Smoke, it's in your eyes, and it's about death. It's about bodies, and it made me feel fine. It made me feel much better about death. It's Caitlin Doty at the Good Death. So, hollery Caitlin, and get some shirts, because that is awesome.

Yeah. Okay. Back to my rub. Okay. Overall, that's basically her childhood. Poverty. Dad is kind of an abusive asshole, but also he wants her to stick up for herself. She develops like a knack to be kind of like a tough girl, but that's mostly it. She was mostly normal. Everybody who knew her thought that she was well liked and cool. And there was nothing wrong with her basically at this point. So and that's the part of it that annoys me later on. And people were like, like, it was all Ian that did. It's like, dude, like, I don't know how many girls I've been with, but none of them could. ever convinced me to like kill somebody like nobody's that charming right yeah okay so at 18 years old so um when mire was 18 years old she finally meets Ian for the first time at that chemical company that Ian was a bookkeeper for Ian would have been like 22 to 23 give or take at this time he would eventually ask her out on the date and they would start going out

together um it was weird like a Wikipedia article on this said that like they would just just go to X-rated movies and then go back to his apartment. Like, it was like, what? Like, that was your date? You. I mean, it's a weird first date. Yeah, that's the thing. Later, if you're like, this is our jam, then do whatever you want.

But if it's your first date, I feel like you should go over ice cream. But I don't know. I feel like it needs to be like three years in a dating one. It's like, let's just start casually every Friday going to an expert in the theater. Like, it's like what? But it's sounded like this was almost like close to the very beginning. It's like they would just go to these movies together. And this is where the Nazi thing comes back into effect

because Ian would constantly talk to Myra about Nazis. And like that's where like it flipped for me, which is like this is probably more January 6th than just interest in history type of a thing. And then like you mentioned earlier, so the very first photo, if you look up, if you Google Myra Henley, the very first photo of her

is blonde hair like crimson deep red lipstick is what shows up it's going to be black and white you don't know it but it's going to be crimson red and dude she was a brunette like she wasn't born that way like she she did this for Ian because I guess like nothing specifically said but he had this like obsession with like the Aryan concept and I guess Mara really liked him a lot and wanted him to be impressed with her and so she wanted to to look more traditionally Arabian so she did this to herself so such as life yeah one statement that myra would later say when she was um after she'd been in corks right or whatever she said that ian could have told her anything this is a quote that the earth was flat that the moon was made of green cheese that the sun rose in the west and i would have believed him like that's her i guess like i guess this type of person like apparently even was really really charming like other people would also say this about it like he had that psychopathic thing where he would just grip your attention and make you want to like just follow him wherever he went

so one thing i wrote here was like again nobody would ever convince me that i'd never liked anybody enough i mean i don't know maybe i've never liked anybody enough that's what it is i never met anybody that i liked enough who asked me to kill somebody that i would maybe i will one day but i haven't yet yeah i don't know if i wouldn't i feel like if he didn't Or if Juan told you to, like, kill your neighbor right now, would you do it? No. I don't want to go to jail, and I have children to take care of. If Juan said he was going to kill the neighbor, but you have to help bury the body, would you do it?

I don't think, I don't know. I mean, I think, I don't know. I mean, I feel like then, potentially. Because I'd be scared. It's the slippery slope. I'd be scared, you know. It's on starts. This is exactly how it starts. I'd be very afraid.

You believe, like, objectivity still exists. whether like okay i'm in love with this person they're amazing they're great whatever there's still objective truth and objectively it is wrong to do these the things that these people ended up doing and like people later on and be like poor mire or poor mire it's like no not poor mire like she still had objective reality to contend with yeah was he abusing her yeah of course yeah i mean this is like 1950s england like punching the woman in the face was just like normal discourse like that was not like i mean i would not say they had an abusive relationship outside of like whatever was normal then which was that yeah today would be an abusive relationship

back then it was like he just loves me that much you know well that's that's part of it too i feel right right so yeah they actually had like part of the relation was also like just like they started veering into like stuff that me and you like to talk about which is like a lot of true crime war stuff like i actually think they would have been fans of our show if they were so alive because they sort like they would go to like the library and just constantly check out books oh man i didn't write it down what's that what's that the marquis de sod book uh i don't know i'm gonna look it up 120 days of sod i think it's called it's a crazy intense they made a movie about it is a crazy intense like torture porn book 120 days of sodom yep there it is yeah and it's a

movie too it's super graphic like i don't i wouldn't really recommend anybody watching it's very torture and like sexual it's it's gross But, like, that's the kind of things that are into that would constantly check out books on stuff like that or other true prime books that it would constantly be digesting involved in. So that's why I thought, like, hey, maybe they would be our fans. I don't know. Yeah, and all that, again, it's fine as long as you don't actually murder people. I know. That's the part of the way it gets tough.

It's like you wonder, because, like, me and you consume this kind of media and, I mean, we're totally innocent. Like, it's not, it's not those things that make it bad. it's the events that happen afterwards that make like that and on those events so i'm going to read out what these guys did and it's going to be a little bit numb because it happens so much it's like who gives a shit like murdered this kid and killed that kid raped out it's like it happened so much that it's almost like just it's meaningless so sorry if it comes across that way obviously people's lives mattered but whatever like it hadn't forever go and they just did this a lot so In 1963, this would be two years after they started dating.

Did Ian got obsessed with Leopold and Lowell? Remember that case? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So for those that don't know, this was about like basically two American dandies who thought that they were sworn enough to commit the perfect crime and they were obviously caught and arrested. Yeah, they were not. They were caught very quickly. Very quickly. Ian and Myra at this time moved into Myra's grandmother's house, which is awesome. That's a really cool thing to do when you're a man in your first. mid-20 celebrity girlfriend's grandmother. And Ian, at this point, he literally learned nothing

from his obsession with the Leopolden Loeb case. So the entire premise of it was like if you are of a certain level of intelligence, you can outspir on cops, you can outspir on everybody else. And that's, that wasn't true. In the Leopold case, they did, they very much did not do that. Yeah, they did the opposite. They got caught and sentenced to death immediately. Um, Ian thought that he could do better than them to where he literally learned nothing. He was like, I hear you, I see you, I can do better than this. He wanted to commit the perfect harder. Yeah.

How much crime is that? You know, people being like, oh, yeah, that guy got caught, but I totally wouldn't get caught. Yeah, it's probably, yeah. I mean, it's a competition thing at that point. It's like a sport at that point. So he decided he's going to commit this perfect crime. and he starts kind of figuring out like how mary can get involved in this like again like i i don't know how she like she seems so bought into anything he said it just felt like it was a natural progression

they would end up in this position uh in this case mirea was kind of central to what ends up happening which is why i don't find her as like this victimless or blameless person she was a key component of this so ian tells mire that he has a plan they're going to rent a van and Myra's going to drive around town. Ian's going to follow her in a motorcycle, and when he sees someone that he wants to abduct, he's going to flash the lights at her, and she could pull over and ask a victim if they want to take a ride.

So... It's a weird to ask. Yeah. Yeah, I don't know where you find these people. So in July of 1963, they put this in action, and they end up kidnapping a 16-year-old classmate of Myra's sister a girl named Pauline Reed. this is the very first one show so mara pulls over offers her a ride and then she says yes gets

in the vehicle because she recognized her she knew right why wouldn't she yeah and mira says hey i got to take a d to where i want help finding this glove like some luxury beautiful glove i have i lost it and i need help finding it and the girl's like okay fine i'll help and so they take her to in myra's home ian then somehow convinces Pauline to go into the Moors and look for this luxury, beautiful glove they have and he ends up coming back alone. That's Myra's story.

Ian's going to say something a little bit different, but that's the story that we're going to run with for now. We know for a fact, ultimately, based on confessions, that when he took her back there, he raped her, and then stabbed her badly enough to almost decap it. He pulled an O.J. It was one of those things. on. And Ian would claim that Meyer was actually there the entire time. She took part in the

sexual assault. She took part in the stabbing. And that's not the story that Myra tells. And I don't know who to believe. They had their most comebacks. So who's said, right? Again, it's just going to keep rolling on. Five months later, they offer a right to a 12-year-old named John Tubbred. They again say they have to go searching for something. And this time, uh, They say they got to go directly to the more instead of the house. And once they get there, Ian takes John out of the car, again, sexually assaults him and slits his throat. It's just like, it's so sterilized, the way I'm phrasing it, but it just happens over and over. How many different ways can you say raped and, like, it's just the same thing.

How big? How big is the more? You know what, Taylor? I was going to ask you if you knew what a more is. I do know what a more is. Do you know what a more is? I, Google. it, so I know what a moor is.

What did you tell us what a more is? It is like a big expanse of rolling green hills. Yeah, that's yeah, you nailed it. It's like Scottish land you'd imagine. I think of moors I think of in Wethering Heights

there's a lot of moors. Heathcliffe always runs across the moor looking for her and then also I bet it's very foggy. Because my sister studied abroad in Brighton and my brother and I went to visit her and every morning we would go on a fog walk because it was so foggy. Him and I would go out to just like the field that like the they would like play soccer in or

whatever, but we would be three feet apart and couldn't see each other. It's crazy. So we would like yell like fog walk and like run and it was really fun. But I don't know, I imagine it was foggy too. Yeah. Yeah, of course. Zingling, right? Yeah.

So the legal definition for Moore is a tract of open uncultivated upland. So it's like to me, I was just like. It's kind of like a wetter version of Joshua Tree. It's kind of what it feels like. Yeah. So this is what it is. And people get murdered in Joshua Tree and disappeared in there all the time. So that actually gives me context.

You and one just taking out your neighbors left and right. I mean, several hikers a year disappear. They probably just get lost and die. They get lost. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. They for sure get lost. So, okay, so we're at John Kilbride.

So seven months after he's been killed and disposed of in the moors, Myra comes across a 12-year-old named Keith Bennett. She asked him to help load stuff into her vehicle, very Ted Bundy-esque, and then offers to take him home after, which she does, or she says she's going to do, they end up getting in the car. And this is a part of it where, like, I'm like, dude, she's not just some poor put-upon woman. Like, I'm not, maybe I'm sexist towards myself, but, like, if a man asks me for help, I'm not, I'm maybe going to slow down my walk to offer to help some random strange man. But if a girl ask me for help, it's like, oh, okay, like, sure, like, there's a trust there you don't have with a strange man. I think that that's, I think that's true. I think that's definitely true, that, like, a woman would, I think that's why, like, Ian and other people have had women partners in crime like this because it's easier to get a kid in a van if a woman asks them.

I think that's definitely true. I also think that Ted Bundy would have 100% murdered me because I would have definitely helped him if he needs. not that good looking like i don't even care i would have helped him he would have been like hey can help me have this thing i'd be like oh sure no problem like it wouldn't have crossed my mind i'd probably still help him today and then i'd be dead and i'd be like fuck i knew this is going to happen but i did it anyway that's why you don't help anybody like i know that sounds really mean but it's like dude like everybody's out to get you it's not the answer it's not the thoughts of a broken man so going back to keith so my rents up taking keith to the house her home herney and

home and Ian asked him to go help find this the grandma's home the grandma's home was not home apparently uh and again Ian asked her to go or asked him to go help and find this beautiful glove he lost in the more there he again sexually assaults Keith and struggles him to death next was Leslie and Downing this would have been seven months after he so like they actually have like kind of like a pretty protractive you know cool off period are people in town like something's happening so later everything gets pinned on these guys because because like this was not the only these were not the only kids going missing like there's like a lot of kids going they're probably all just dying sweeping chimneys

and just like their bodies were never found but like a lot of kids were going missing and i'll discuss this later on because police are like wait a minute we got these people who just keep killing children and we just got arrested them there's like another 30 missing kids maybe they killed all these too we don't know but they didn't really draw that distinction themselves until they were caught so we're seven months after keith ian and mira were shopping and they noticed a girl a 10 year old leslie anne downing they dropped their bags in front of her and asked her to help she's like sure i'll help because she's 10 right yeah i know and they're like okay thanks for helping can you help get this in our car she's like okay and they're like keep

help get us in this in our house and like okay and so she's like it gets so fucked up dude like using the trust the inherent trust that a child puts in people against them like it's so whatever and that we tell that's what you tell kids you tell kids like a grown up does not need your help yeah like if a grown up that's key for help like you say no like be polite like whatever but like don't help them like grown up they can use they can find another grown up they can use they can call someone like that's a big thing Tash rabbit. They have task rabbit. Robs have task rabbits. Yeah. So I'm so I don't need a 10 year old to help them move something.

So they take Leslie to their house. And while they're at the house, they do the normal thing. Ian rapes, strangles Leslie. And then they take her body out to the morse to get buried. There's a lot more of this. It's just like, why even bother one of the details? Do they, they bury them or do they just leave them? No, they buried them. Okay. There's a lot of more detail. Again, like I just mentioned, I don't want to go into it. It's like, yes, they took pictures of her. Yes, she screamed and they, like, all the gross stuff you would imagine happened.

But it's like, dude, they had like fucking 20 times. I'm not going to keep talking about every school one of them. So just use your imagination. So two months later came Edward Evans. Ian asked Myra to take him to a railway station to look for a victim. And Ian ended up finding Edward who was 17 years old. So he's a bigger human than these 10-year-olds and 12-year-olds are taking him. He's out of the chimney, sweet business.

Because he sounds sweet. Yep, yep, broad shoulders. So, Ian apparently told Edward that he was, like, this was a hookup. Like, Ian was like, I'm gay, you're gay. This woman with me is my sister, we live together. She's going to take us home. That was his conversation with Edward. So Edward goes with them. I did not bring this up earlier, but Myra's sister, her, I brought up myra sister before. Her name's Maureen. Moraine was married to a guy named David Smith, okay? And David Smith, Maureen, and Myra and Ian live really close to each other. For some reason, David was also obsessed with Ian and also thought he was the coolest guy in the world and also thought like all these great things about him. Again, like this guy had like weird influence over people around. Yeah, that's weird. And Ian found, Ian thought that he had a kindred spirit in David,

which he did not. He did not have a kindred spirit, but he thought he did. And so this night that they bring Edward home, David, or sorry, Ian tells Myra to go over to Maureen and David's house and to bring David over until like tell him what to do. So she does this. She goes to David and says, come over, David comes over, but it's like staying outside of the house until I give you a signal, then come knock on the door. I know, no idea why.

I literally have no idea why this plan played out the way it did. It sounded incredibly overconfident and stupid. So at some point, they flicker the lights and David goes and knocks on the door and then Ian opens the door and pretends like he doesn't really know him and says, oh, so you're here to collect your wine. Again, no idea why this plan

this sounds like such a stoner plan. It's overcompetitive for no reason. David plays along and then Ian walks him into the kitchen and says, let me go fetch your wine and leaves David in the kitchen. Then David describes hearing some insane screamy just over and over again like he sounds like a woman shrieking and he myro rushes into the kitchen and says david go help him out they really overestimated david's

interest and what their lifestyle was david goes in and sees that edith is on top of edward he's holding a hatchet just bludgeoning the shit out of ian's face with this hatchet and then obviously after being blown in the head enough he's like sufficiently subdued so ian rolls him over and strangles him to death with an electrical cord while David is standing there he doesn't kill him yeah well they didn't kill David no they killed Edward no but I mean like hitting you in the head with the accident kill him no no apparently you had to strangle him yeah your skills's pretty hard yeah you certainly take a lot of damage trust me so after all of this after all this um David is like this was awesome man I'm so glad you invited me over I'm totally coming back later and helping you dig up

engrave to move this kid's body into david's like awesome loved it this is great i'm gonna go home i'll come back tomorrow yeah that's like yeah that's that's weird like yes it might be like a smidge surreal but like that's weird a little bit weird a little bit weird what's not weird is what happened after which is david going home immediately telling morning what he just witnessed vomiting, like, just randomly vomiting as he describes the events. Again, I was like, I read this was like, why did Ian think David would be this, like, chill dude and having a great time doing this and did not play out that way? So, David, the next morning, he went until the morning.

It was like 6.34 o'clock in the morning, or 6.35 o'clock or so much like, whatever. He ended up calling the police and told them, hey, I have a story to tell you all. The police show up with their house and pick him up and take him to the police station. where he basically confesses about everything what he just witnessed the finally yeah yeah exactly so the police would go to ian and myra's house and say the annie told look around oh wait i'm sorry stop stop i just got a news update from the new york times ted kuzinski just died no at 81 no breaking news bepity beep beep beep beep beep beep Beep, peep, beep, beep, whoa.

He had his... I have my revenge. All right. That's sad, actually. I know. Poor guy, honestly. He just wanted his spoiled milk. He was given so much shit.

Did you ever watch My Pretty Face to Go on a Hell the Unabomber episode? No. Oh, my God. They roasted Ted Kaczyns. It was so funny because it's Henry, right? It's Henry Zabrowski. Yeah.

Oh, so good. So anyway, it's on who leaves. Check it out. We're back. So the police over the house and say they heard that a gun went off last night and they're just investigating to see what was going on. They look around and Myra lets them in into the house. Eventually, they see that there's a door lock to the guest bedroom.

And the police are like, where's the key to this? We need to go inside this room. That's where Edward's body was. Myra's like the room, the key to the room is at my work. Like, cool, we'll take you to your work. Ian looks over and was like, just give him the key. Like, it's over. Like, just give him the key.

So if she gives the key, the police find the body. So obviously, they, Ian is arrested immediately. Myra's not arrested. I mean, it took four days before police finally arrested her as an accessory to murder until he actually knew how involved she really was. Once she was arrested, police started finding these little artifacts that, like, serial killers tend to keep. So they found, for example, like a notebook with John Kilbride's name and information on there. they found naked pictures that they had taken with leslie they found audio recording of leslie's

torture and yeah again like police knew that these were missing kids and when they see the names it's like what like like there's a pattern forming right because at this time nobody knows what a serial killer is like this is like the 1960s like nobody knows that's the concert doesn't exist yet. So police are talking to neighbors and asking about Ian Amira and what they like to do. One of their neighbors mentioned that they would frequently go to this one specific site in the Moors and police started looking there. And there they found an arm protruding from the moors from the dirt. And that would have been Leslie Downey's arm, the 10 year old. So they keep digging and they keep uncovering more bodies. One thing they did that I kind of found interesting was that they would oftentimes take pictures when they were in the

moors and they had a dog called puppet and the dog was like a puppy at certain points and grew up police had a hard time knowing like when what what timelines this all happened like they knew that okay this came up missing it this time there's a picture of them in the moors of this time like what did they overlap they didn't know so they had a vet basically apply general anesthetics to like do some dating based on its teeth or gumwork or whatever to get a sense like how old the dog was to back date when these pictures were taken yeah ultimately, the anesthetic they used ended up telling the dog, they overdid it, but whatever. That's kind of one of the things they ended up doing.

Poor dog, it's a blast victim. So they uncovered a couple of these bodies, no help from Ian or Meyer at all. Both of them pled not guilty, and Ian was ultimately found guilty of three of the murders, and Meyer was found guilty of two of the murders. So, like, they haven't found all the bodies yet. They just, like, found where they found, and they started prosecuting them. So they're obviously sentenced to life in prison, and during this time, police would start looking into other murders of children that happened or not missing children like not

murders but missing children that happened in around Manchester we don't know how many people these guys killed like they could have killed so many more because they never confirmed other murders they would just kind of say like maybe we did that one I don't know they didn't they weren't sure they were so many yeah and she would tell them they're like hey if you take me on the moors i could probably find like i could probably guess like where a couple more bodies are and they would ultimately do this so they ended up taking her body or taking mira out into the moors and they just it was crazy like because they were so sure everybody was going to kill her they had like 200 cops with them they had like helicopter

protection they had like aircrafts like anti aircraft stuff with it was crazy right she ended up not finding anything uh any of the bodies and so there people were like this is a waste of time you should have done this so just wanted to go for a walk yeah she she probably just wanted to go for walk it's kind it's kind of like uh henry what is his name henry lee Lucas Lucas yeah yeah i just wanted to be out and it gets free cigarettes yeah so mira ultimately would confess the murder of pauline reed that was the first girl a 16 year old um and she wasn't convicted of that one originally so after she's been convicted she's in life and jell she finally confesses that police told ean that mire confessed this he couldn't believe her and he said fine i'll confess

to everything i've done if you give me the opportunity to kill myself after so he was on what suicide train i'm not going to do that of course i was a no go that wasn't going to happen you know what's crazy i just realized this ian almost outlived mira by 20 years the the guy who wanted to off himself more than anybody else in human health history was almost 80 years old when he finally died naturally of natural causes. It's crazy. So again, like this is the point where Myra starts getting all this sympathy from people and they think that like she was forced to do this with Ian.

Ian did not get any sympathy at all obviously. He was a complete monster and was basically like legally diagnosed as a psychopath. That meant that he was moved from prison to a psychiatric hospital. so they they really don't do like the psych stuff that we do here in the u.s over there apparently because once he's deemed uh once he's deemed insane and a psychopath he is not legally allowed to refuse medical treatment for his mental health issues that's important because he keeps trying to kill himself because he because he starts to try and starve himself to death but legally he can't because food is part of like his mental health treatment and so

So they force feed him. So he starts petitioning the government to deem him saying to go to prison so he can find other ways to kill himself, including starving himself with death. He's not successful, obviously, in this. He ended up dying in actually pretty recently. It was 2017. He was 79 years old. Wow.

Longest serving prisoner in England's history. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. Again, I'm going to be annoyed at Myra in her time in jail, so she would file endless appeals. And again, with the sympathy people put on her, so they lobbied to get her life sentence reduced to 25 years, which they did. Then later on, politicians were like, nah, that's not long enough, through 30 years. So it increases to 30 years.

She lobbied herself to get her prison classification reduced so that she could pursue a relationship with the warden of the prison, which she did. So she got her classification from an A prisoner, which is like the highest security to like a B prison, which was like less. so they should go on walks with the prison warden and like have sexual a sexual relationship with her basically and the one thing i'd say is like the only people that struck me as completely sane in this case were actually the people who they victimized the parents of the people they victimized so myra's sister morin ultimately would die before mire ended up dying and the parents of john kilbright attended the funeral attended morin's funeral just in case mira attended it so that they could strangle her and try to kill her and what's funny is

is somebody else was there that looked kind of like Myra. And the dad attacked and, like, sort of battling with this poor woman who had nothing to do with anything. And pineapple to pull her off her. But anyway. Yeah, I get that, though. That's basically the story. She ended up dying in 2005, I think it was. I never read the exact date down, but she was 16 years old.

So, again. It's so crazy. They lived to, like, see the internet in, like, 9-11. He was crazy. You know? Yeah. See all those gays start 9-11. fucking pat robertson so anyways uh again like there's a lot of details to the story that's just

like god it's just so gross like it's so gross it's like even it's anything fun to talk about yeah you know like at least Jeffrey Dahmer's stuff like it's fun to talk about some of that stuff but with this just like it's just like much of 10 year olds man like it's an awful awful thing and like just and kind of like taking advantage of the time i guess like no one really was paying attention you know or like kids could just disappear or die in a chimney and you never fucking know it's over the chimney that's terrible that's my story tailor oh gross thank you for sharing as a future corpse um and who is drinking curdled milk what are you going to be discussing oh my god that's so gross i know i said it but i feel like it's gross okay so i'm going to try to shake that off

i'm going to close on my windows where i was googling moors murders because i don't want to see their faces anymore it's jerks they are jerks um That's the very least I can say about them. They're just not good people. No, they're baddies. They're baddies. Okay. You're ready.

I'm ready. I'm ready. Okay. So next Sunday, June 18th is Father's Day. Did you know that? I've heard that. Call your dad. So to prep for Father's Day, I wanted to celebrate a story about fathers and daughters.

and so talk about the relationship between Andrew and Lizzie Borden. Ooh. It was a sexual relationship, wasn't it? It might have been. Yep. So you are first generation American. Was Lizzie Borden a part of your life? I mean, I was two when I came here.

So, like, I mean, I heard the whole like 30 wax and all the, like, I remember buying a book. Dude, it was called Liz Claiborne. What's Liz Claiborne? No, Liz Claiborne is like a, um, a fashion designer. Okay, then I'm confusing things because I do remember getting a book. And I thought it was about Lizzie Borden and it was about somebody totally different. And then I'm messing up your story and debiling it as you know. No, it's fine.

But like you've heard of her, you know. Yeah. a rhyme which would say in a second um but just for me like it this scared the shit out of me when i was little like it was i feel like it was in my life a lot um i also like associate when i'm doing things with like the media that i'm consuming when i'm doing it so like the kid's bathroom i painted blue and it reminds me of mount everest because while i was painting the bathroom blue i was watching a lot of ever's documentary okay makes sense so i remember watching the lizzie Borden movie. It was like a lifetime, not the lifetime movie. The one from 1975, it was like a

made for TV movie starring the woman from Bewitched. I love her. Yeah. And I remember watching it and being scared, shitless and eating Fetuccine Alfredo with spinach noodles. So whenever I think about Fetitina Alfredo, I think about Lizzie Borden. Nice. Think of her a lot. So we have to, like you said, do the rhyme, which is Lizzie Borden took an axe, gave her mother 40 wax. When she saw what she had done she gave her father 41 and you like skip rope to that so they died so people dedicate their freaking lives to this story it is such a fascinating story that people have been like thinking about it forever um and i there's a huge lizzie board in society forum which is like an old older looking web form and people are active on it today people active on it constantly

it's all people on it i watched the elizabeth montgomery movie from 1975 um there's a couple other websites I went to. There's a Lizzie Borden Society Forum. Something from website called Criminal Element. I watched a show called History's Mystery. It's a strange case of Lizzie Borden. Lizzie Borden had an axe from the Discovery Channel, and I read a book called The Trial Lizzie Borden. There's a lot. I mean, there's endless, endless stuff about this story. Several of the documentaries were made, like, right after the OJ trial, which is hilarious because they were trying to equate famous American trials together. And one of them was like, we imagine that Lizzie Borden spent her life

with these murders hanging over her head and that will happen to OJ. And I'm like, OJ is fine before that. OJ doesn't care at all. He doesn't give a shit. So like, so, you know. But here are the facts. On August 2nd, 1892, the Borden house is at 92 Second Street in Fall River, Massachusetts.

An uncle, John Morse, was visiting the Bordons. Morris ate breakfast served by the maid Bridget with Andrew and Abby, who are like the parents. He left to visit friends around 8.48 a.m. At 9 a.m. Andrew went for a walk. Sometime between 9 and 10.30 a.m. Abby went to tidy up the guest room and was hit 19 times in the head with an X. Her body lay on the bed opposite to the door. So you kind of had to be in the room to see where she was. At 10.30, Andrew returned and the front door was locked. Bridget let him in. And then she went upstairs to take a nap because she wasn't feeling well. Andrew sat down in the sitting room to take a nap and he was murdered so violently that half of his head was gone and one eye was totally exploded. So he was like hacked to death.

And that was sometime after 10.30. At 1110, Bridget and a neighbor heard Lizzie call, come quick, father's dead. Somebody came in and killed him. So that's like the stuff that we know for sure and that everything else we're not sure about. So let me tell you about the people. in this story. So Lizzie's dad is Andrew Jackson Borden. He was born in 1822. The Bordons were a

Fall River family. They had lived there for generations. They were very, very wealthy. He didn't have the nest eggs, the egg that other Bordons had, but he did make his own fortune. He was a carpenter. He made furniture and coffins. Then he was a bank manager, and he ended up owning a bunch of property, and he was pretty rich. So in today's money, he had about $10 million. So yeah, so he had a good amount of money. There's another Borden story that happened next door a few decades before where a mother who is like a great, great aunt of Lizzie, Eliza Darling, Borden, through her three children into the basement well and then died by suicide. So they have like another horrible story that's like right in the same neighborhood that happened before. So that's the dad.

Lizzie's mom is dead. Her name is Sarah, Sarah Anthony Borden. She was born in 1823. They had two children, Emma and Lizzie. And Sarah died when Lizzie was two. just like of being sick and being alive in the 800s. So Andrew remarried Abby Borden. She was born in 1828.

Her maiden name is Abby Durfie Gray. So she was a lot of like spinsters in this story, which means you're like 30 and not married, you know? So Abby was kind of a spinster. Aren't they still called spinsters? No, no one uses the word spinster anymore. Oh, my God, am I old? No, you're not 100 years old.

No one uses the word spinster. Okay. Um, so he probably just needed help with the family, you know, and so there was like an unmarried woman and they were married. It happened about when Lizzie was like five. Durfey is also the name of one of the banks that Andrew managed. So it sounds like he worked with her dad and then met her. Initially, she had a good relationship with the girls. They were young when she was in her 30s when they, when she moved into the house.

Eventually, closer to the time of the murders, Lizzie would start calling her Mrs. Borden instead of mother. So they ended up kind of having a following. out. Emma, the older sister, was also unmarried, and she was agoraphobic, but during the murders, she was out of town, which is weird, because she, like, never left her house, but she was out of town during the murders, visiting friends. So, Lizzie herself,

Lizzie Andrew Borden, was born on July 19th, 1860. She was also unmarried. She's 32 at the time of the murders. She taught Sunday school. She was in the women's temperance league and the ladies' fruit and flower mission. Like, she was bored. You know? So boring.

Yeah, she was so fucking bored. A woman at her age was supposed to be spending her time taking care of her family, you know, and like managing a household. Like that's really the only option. So if she didn't have that option, she really had nothing to do. Why would you just casually take up, like, being part of a temperance movement? Like, well, she was very religious and like, you know. It's like your only favorite thing in your past I'm to do is just like, she'll everybody's buzz. Yeah. I mean, her life sounds terrible. And like, she has, her dad has a lot of money, but they don't spend it, which is like,

frustrating, I think, probably for both girls because they're like, you know, we might as well be spending this money. But they did spend a little bit. So I'll tell you a little bit more about that. But those two are the people who are in the house at the time. So John Morris is the brother of Sarah, who's Lizzie's birth mom. And he came by to visit. He came by independently, just like randomly and like stop by. So he's staying with the Borden's. But he leaves in the morning to go visit. And he's staying in the guest room. And it's also Bridget Sullivan. She's 25 years old. was an Irish immigrant and they are so it's such a racist time so they um eventually i don't think of this down but they tried to blame the murders on like a random portuguese person they're just like

anyone who's like a different like an other the board and family calls bridget maggie because their last irish maid was named maggie and they just don't want to bother learning a new name that's so awesome which is ridiculous it's like naming your dog the exact same thing yeah is your last dog that's funny oh my god so poor bridge it's like this sucks and also like it's so hot and so victorian everyone's wearing like long sleeves and it just sounds like really stuffy and kind of awful so i read so much stuff about this but also uh the books that well also listen to the last podcast obviously and the book that they recommend is bill james's popular crime which is so good um it's such a great book and he's very

funny when he talks through different crimes and like tries to quantify who might have done it um but his facts are it's almost impossible to see how lizzie could have committed the crime And also, it's very, very difficult to understand how anyone else could have committed the crime. Yeah, I remember that. I remember that. So the third fact that he has is that Lizzie made a number of statements about the case that were self-contradictory and in conflict with the testimony of other persons. So there's that. That part is definitely true.

So here's the scene and here's the day and what's kind of leading up to the day. So we know the people. We're in Fall River, Massachusetts, which was once one of the biggest cities. in Massachusetts. Rich people live up on a hill. So the hill where you live if you're rich, the Bordons don't live there. They could afford to live there, but they don't. They live in town. So a house is like on a main thoroughfare, like in town. It's Tuesday morning. Lots of people are around. It's not like an isolated place. Andrew is very, very stingy. The house had no water. It had no gas lighting. So like those things were available, but they had like kerosene lamps and

they had like one water pump in the basement. And they had like an outhouse in the basement too, I guess. get people like that yeah it's like when you hear about warren buffin it's like he still lives in the same house he bought for 500 000 like 90 years like why this is such a big jump like modern convenience you know like how about you don't have to be in a chamber pot in the middle of the night you know you could just not do that that's available to you but be kind of fun though kind of want the chamber pot they absolutely do not want a chamber pot i would definitely not empty mine i was to leave it there for like six months at the time that's horrifying No. No, no, no, no. No. So anyway, it was an old house and they could have done better. But they have, the girls actually have money. They have like an allowance. They get it from a rental house. So Andrew owns a much of property. He buys a house for his sister-in-law for Abby's sister. And the girls are pissed because they want more money. So the girls get the grandfather's house and the money from rent from that. So they have a good amount of money. Eventually they're going to inherit the money from their dad. There's like really no reason to rush it. So that's kind of where they are right now. Something happened around like 1890 and that's when

Lizzie started calling Abby Mrs. Borden. In 1890, also, Lizzie traveled to Europe for a while with other Borden cousins. So she wasn't, like, trapped in Fall River. She got to go to Europe and, like, hang out. I bet it was fucking lame, though, Taylor. It wasn't like me and you going to Europe. They weren't, like, at pubs, like, hanging out and having a great time, playing darts, being locals. Like, they weren't doing that.

They were, like, repenting or something. It had to have sucked. No, I bet they were doing what other, the other half of our trip to Europe would be, like, going to churches. and museums. Yeah. They just went to bed early. Yeah. But all the churches and museums in Europe are nice.

Dude, I bet they would have thought, they're the time of people that would have thought English food is good. Oh, 100%. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So a couple other odd things happened leading up to the murders. There was a fight between Andrew and Lizzie, it's presumed. And she had some pigeons in the barn that she was keeping, like, as pets.

and he killed them. So, like, maybe with an axe, also that could maybe not be true, but he had, like, done this to her pets and she was super upset. There's also, like you said, rumors of incest, but those come later. And the reason that people say that is because, like, you know, he had his two older daughters living at home with him. Like, he never allowed them or for whatever reason. They never went out and got married.

The crime was so brutal that it had to be personal, you know, like any forensic person would tell you that. Also, this is weird. Andrew didn't wear a wedding dress. ring, but he did wear Lizzie's high school ring that she gave him. That's gross. That's weird.

That's suspicious. He definitely was doing something. So that's, you know, that could have, that could have, could have, could have may or not have happened. There's like so many of things on Lizzie board a forum about it. Like, someone just had like a, um, a webinar about it. So it's definitely still like something that fascinates people. But isn't this a point in time when like it was common for,

for an incest in the family? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Any more or less than like now in certain areas? I have no idea. I mean, yeah, more remote.

I mean, look, if you're in West Virginia, like there's not much, it's slim pigeons. It's either family or nothing. But they're not remote. They're in the middle of a city. It's true. Okay. You're right.

But I don't know. There's also some thefts in the house. So someone had come and stolen some money and a street car tickets. It sounds like Lizzie was a suspect for those theft, so Andrew dropped the charges and didn't want the police to look into it, so maybe she had done that, but also like she's bored. Maybe she did try to steal some extra money or whatever. So everybody in the board and house locked their doors all the time after this, after this theft. And the house is really weird.

It is a house with no hallways. All the rooms are connected. So when you walk in the front door, there's stairs on the right, and then there's two doors. one door goes to a parlor and another one goes to a sitting room so they're both kind of the same purpose just to like hang out and then the sitting room goes to the kitchen and the kitchen and the sitting room both go to the dining room and then there's a little back entryway and back stairs and the back stairs go up to the third floor where bridget lives and then also to Andrew and Abby's bedroom you can get there that way too okay I'll send you a picture the other way to get to

Andrew and Abby's bedroom is to the second floor. So when you climb up the stairs and on the second floor, there's the guest room where Abby's body was found. That's one door. One door goes directly to Lizzie's bedroom. And her room is connected to Emma's bedroom. So weird. Yeah.

It's so weird. Why didn't they invent hallways? I don't know. I was going to look this up because I feel like when you go to like, when you're in Europe and you go to like Versailles, there's no hallways. You just like room to. room to room, you know. Yeah, you're right. So I wonder when, I was going to look it up because I remember

like when I was in Europe for the first time, someone was telling me how they don't have closets because they used to be charged by the room. So you would have like a wardrobe. Yeah. Tax by the room. But either way, like also on the second floor, there's a big clothes room. They call it a closet, but it's almost as big as Emma's bedroom. It's a big room. So it's a big room that they like store all their clothes. Emma's bedroom is a small room off of Lizzie's bedroom. And then Andrew and Abby have like a bigger room in the back of the house. So the only way to get to Andrew and Abby's room is through going up the back stairs or there's a door between their room and Lizzie's room, but that one is always locked. Yeah. And so what they do is, again, like it's hot. It's fucking humid.

They're all wearing long sleeves. Like Andrew's wearing like a full suit when he's killed and it's like 80 degrees. And the house is stuffy. Like I, when it's hot and I don't have. have air conditioning. I want the windows open, you know, like, and I want, like, air to be moving, but air is not moving because every single door is always closed and most of the time they're locked. Sounds so shitty way to live. Yeah, it sounds terrible. It sounds really stuffy. I'm sure it smells terrible. All of that. Yeah. So the family had been also super sick leading up to the murders. Lizzie had told someone in town that she thought someone was trying to poison them because they had that bad milk. But, like, also, they had no refrigeration. They were, and they were eating

old food. They were eating old mutton, like mutton broth. The 1975 movie does such a good job of showing how gross the broth was. Like, actually, they show Bridget, like, almost throwing up, and then, like, they have, show the parents, like, it's so gross I might throw up right now, thinking about it. But essentially, like, during this time, because of what the conveniences they had their house and probably during all time like to keep food from going bad you would keep it constantly cooking yeah yeah perpetual stew or something right yeah so they really stretched the fish in the mutton and so everybody was sick like it was old at lizzie was not sick and that people saw that as being suspicious but i also kind of feel like that's just smart um

Taylor, I looked this up forever ago, and I'm trying to find it again now, but, hold on, where is it? Where is this? I will have to edit those out. Okay. So there's one, there's a perpetual stew in Germany that has been around since the 15th century. No. Yeah. There's another, there's another in Japan. pan that has had the same broth in their perpetual stew since 1945. I hate that. Anyways, okay, sorry. Exactly. Like, in the Middle Ages, looking at out, there were inns that had a big pot of stew on the fire, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Over time, we added whatever you had, and you never really stopped adding to the pot. You see what I was saying, like, you should make it now. You should not do that. I mean, no, hard now. So, anyway, of course, made them sick. And so Lizzie wasn't sick, which people thought it was suspicious, but also I feel like she was probably just like, I don't want to eat this. I would not want to eat it. She has cookies for breakfast that morning. That sounds a thousand times better than old

mutton's do, you know? This life sounds so terrible. It's real boring and like dreary. So Lizzie's not sick, which makes people feel like she might have done it. Also, a pharmacist during the trial is going to testify that Lizzie tried to buy pressic acid to clean a seal skin cape. I looked it up. The Metropolitan Museum of Art actually has a steel skin cape in their collection, just like a short fur cape. The acid could have been used as like fumigation, but maybe she did ask for it because she was bored, but also it was probably somebody else. It sounds like the pharmacist who just wanted to like be in the news because later a police officer's wife said that she was the one who went in and tried to buy plastic acid because

you needed a prescription to buy it. And they were just kind of like doing like secret shopper trying to trick him. So that probably isn't true. Wikipedia told me that both girls were so mad at their father for whatever reason that they stayed at a hotel for a few days before the murders, but I didn't read that anywhere else. So I don't know where that comes from. And then we do know that Emma was out of town, and which was weird because she never left the house. And then John was there, the uncle, and he never saw Lizzie. Like she came in and didn't say hello. He just left in the morning.

So they never even said hi. So as in the morning of August 2nd, as the events unfold for the women, Bridget is in and out of the house washing, windows and she was pissed. She was pissed that Abby asked her to wash the windows. It was hot. She didn't want to do it. She had food poisoning. Like she just didn't want to do it, but she was in and out of the house. Lizzie is puttering around the house doing like normal Victorian lady things. She's ironing handkerchiefs. She says that she goes to the barn to look for fishing lures for an upcoming trip. So they had like a small yard, but they had a barn in the back. So she's like rifling around barn, doing Victorian stuff. She also stays in the yard and eats four pairs. And people are like,

that's so weird. Why would she say they're eight pairs? while her parents are being murdered, you know. But I'm sure she was fucking hungry, and it makes sense to eat a fresh pear rather than old stew. That's the most exciting thing that's happened so far. Yeah. You get a pair? Like, that's amazing.

It sounds delicious and fresh, and that sounds great. So she's eating pears in the backyard, kind of hanging out. It's hot as fuck. She's wearing long sleeves. So Lizzie said that Abby got a note from a friend that was sick and needed help. So it's evidence that people liked Abby. She had a lot of friends.

So it's possible that happened, but there was never a note. Like, no one ever found. the note so they don't know. So she was saying that Abby was out. So sometime in the morning around 930, Abby is killed. So she's cleaning in the guest room. She is axed in the head. And Abby weighs 200 pounds. She falls. Someone would have fucking hurt it. You know, you would think. But she falls. Someone would have heard her. We stayed in the house that's like this age in Columbus, Ohio one time, my family. And you could like see the first floor through the second floor. Like it was like the house was old, you know, I'm sure that, like, through the floor.

Yeah, like, there was no, like, insulation, you know, like, I don't think that, like, it would be, you would not, you wouldn't miss it. Someone, like, dropped a book, you wouldn't miss it. You know, you hear it. Andrew comes home, and he can't get the door open, so he's annoyed, but, like, also all the doors are locked and can't get it open and the door is locked. And Maggie tries to get the door open. Not Maggie, I'm sorry, Bridget, I wrote Maggie. you're doing you're doing the exact i'm doing it so bridget tries to get the door open and she curses and she says that she heard lizzie laughing on the stair on the stairwell when she cursed so either she was laughing

because of the bad word which is what bridget thought but also the spot that lizzie was standing on the stairway was the only place where you could have seen abby's body because you had to be at a certain point on the stairway to kind of see like underneath the bed into the guest room and see abbey laying on the floor. So that may or may not be true. Bill James thinks it isn't true. He thinks that she didn't hear laughing, but like, I don't know. Andrew takes a nap in the sitting room. In the pictures, he's sitting on the couch with his head on the pillows and his feet off of the couch and his shoes are on. So that's weird. Like, do you take a nap like that? But also, he's a lot taller than the couch. So you wouldn't like see him cuddle up. He wouldn't like be a

cuddler. But also he just like, he's in a really weird position. So I wonder if like he fell. but but i don't know so telly can i posit a thing working theory i have here yeah yeah because so much about this case is based on like what normal humans would be doing or wouldn't be doing or experience these people are like total freaking weirdos right yeah is it really what i think that it's weird if andrew were to go to sleep in a full tuxedo at noon in 95 degree weather probably not because He's a fucking weirdo. They're all weirdos. That's true. Exactly. Yes.

Like, we don't know disease every day. I don't know. Like, he very well might. It's a great, good point. Yeah, do weird stuff. So, Lizzie calls, someone yells out, someone's killed father. Neighbors start to come. Bridget goes to the doctor Bowen, the family doctor to get him to come.

The police come, and I'm sure you remember this, but the police is like the B squad. Because everyone else is at, like, the county fair. It's like the police day of fun, and most of the police are out of town. So they send the B squad to help. They've never seen anything like this. And this town is, you know, they're like dealing with drunks and dealing with like petty crimes. They're not dealing with axe murders for the most part. So also like the murderer could still be in the house.

Like potentially they are because Lizzie's there. Like who knows? So people start coming in and out of the house. The police do take pictures, which is cool because that's pretty new. It wasn't a thing to take pictures of bodies. But they don't take the pictures. until about 3 p.m. So it's been like five hours since they died. And they've definitely been touched and like moved around. But they take the pictures. So we have those. A neighbor, Mrs.

Churchill finally asks, where's Abby? And Lizzie said, oh, she went out. And then they go for looking around for her and then they find Abby's body. So they don't find it until after the police are already there. It's wild. Yeah. So some other things that they find in the house, there's a bucket full of bloody rags in the basement. But Lizzie says that they're from her period, which they very well could be having a period of cerebral it was terrible so they also find an axe with a broken handle covered in ash in the basement so they think that that may have been the murder weapon but they're not they're not sure but also like there's no footprints or handprints so does you feel like if you asked someone to death you'd have blood on your like had to open the

door so okay so that's the part of it where i'm just going to say my piece of this is like i don't think she did it only because i'm looking at the crime scene photos dude this guy this guy's face was butchered yeah absolutely gone like there's like the fact that there was no blood on her in if she's like oh i was on my period there's no way you confuse like what what is her period like 50 gallons. Right, because it goes it got all over her face. Yeah, it would be exactly. So like, so that's the only part where

I'm just like super, and the Lizzie's probably not guilty camp is because the blood is not there. And it's, I mean, my whole life I thought she did it. This like, this blows my mind because I feel like maybe she didn't. And because of that, because she was so clean. And also Bridget

saw her between the murders and said she was clean. So she would have had to like clean herself off change and then do it again. So they also had to have. plumbing. They didn't have plumbing, right? Yeah. So it would have been really, really hard. But I also just feel like anyone would have trailed blood like through that house and they would have had to leave the house covered in blood. So that and no one noticed on like the street. So like maybe they were wearing like black clothing. You just couldn't tell. Or maybe they were the butcher already covered in blood. You know, stuff like that like it could have been. But it feels like someone should have saw something if another person had been there. They do the autopsies at the house. And they leave the bodies there. So they leave the bodies there. So they leave the bodies. they're like overnight with with the girls which is crazy um so in the next few days the bodies do go to the morgue and then they get sent to harvard and a man named dr edwood um performs another

autopsy on them he takes the heads and boils them so he has just the skulls so they're buried up with other heads and he has the skulls also lizzie does something super suspicious she burns a dress so she probably did it in front of her sister and a friend and maybe in front of some like other people but she was like oh you know we're just cleaning up the house because also the thing I just thought about is who the fuck cleaned up the blood? Probably poor Bridgett. And so she has a dress and she's like, oh, this old dress has paint on it. People knew that she had a dress that had paint on it, for real.

But she burned it in the stove, which was like normal. You didn't really have the garbage men coming by. So you would burn things. But she didn't in front of her friends. And they're like, that's the worst thing you could have done. Like, now everybody knows that you burned a dress. Like maybe it was covered in blood, you know? I don't know why she did that.

Why didn't she just do it when she was alone? You're just doing the middle of fucking night, you know? I mean, what was her excuse? She was like, oh, I just had paint on it. And I'm just like doing chores, like normal chores. Again, again, these are weirdos. That's a weird thing to do. But it could be totally normal for them.

Exactly. Yes. Super weird. So Lizzie doesn't act. Like, you know, again, like they always say, like you never know how you'll act in like an emergency. But Lizzie acts like kind of suspicious the whole time. But it's also because Dr. Bowen is giving her a shit ton of morphine.

She is high as fuck. She is like totally out of it. So she's definitely confused. Also, like, there are thousands of people coming to Fall River to see the house because they will forever. Like, people are there right now. Staying the night. It's a bed and breakfast. Like, it's, it's. Is it really? Oh, yeah. I mean, 100% need to go there. Everybody. We have to go there. Yeah. It sounds amazing. So, like, there's, like, museums. Like, the whole town, this is all this is it. This is all Fall River has. This is Lizzie Borden story. And of course, like, if my neighbor was murdered, I would be over there right now. I would definitely want to see a big looking at it, you know. also for the murders the board of the sisters offer a $5,000 reward in the paper for the murderer so this is also just like the OJ case like no one bothers to find the real fucking murderer you know yeah you're like after the person's acquitted they're like cool guess that's it you're like what you said he didn't do it the fuck did it so Lizzie was charged on August 8th 1892 she spent 11 months in jail before her trial what are you looking at dude Taylor you can book book wait how much does it cost one oh my god you can Taylor you can stay in Andrew and Abby's bedroom for $300 a night they didn't die there but that sounds great can you say the guest room wait no Abby did Abby died in her room no she died in a guest room damn okay wait hold on so let me see being in the guest room no you got

Lizzie and Emma sweet you got Bridget Hosea John Morse well John Morse stayed in the guest room I mean I can look at it up too this is the silent part of podcast official Lizzie Bordenhouse see our rooms oh they have two 300 bucks it's like consistently 300 bucks it's crazy

yeah the John Zey more sweet is the guest room that's where Abby Borden was found 300,000 right Bridges room three people can see in Bridget's room oh my god it's so funny you would say that right for sure which room oh there's so many rooms

in the third floor that they don't talk about it's weird I would want to stay in Lizzie's room even though it's not where anybody was murdered I want to say

in the room that she lived in yeah I agree but wow it's interesting that looking at this there's like there's Bridget's room and there's also

two other bedrooms on the top floor so like who knows I don't know maybe someone could have hit up there I don't know also wait

just scroll down it says no alcohol is permitted on the property, we have already had two fatal head injuries in the home. That's funny. Yeah, that's a temperance people. Oh, oh, okay. But, yeah, no, that sounds awesome.

Is that most beautiful for it? Okay, cool. Anyway, that's, this is fun. People should go there. You can get a tour, a ghost tour. That also has a ghost hunt, night lead from 10 a p.m. to midnight. So if we're staying there, you can part of the ghost hunt. Okay, anyway, that sounds great.

Let's definitely do that. So the trial started on June 5th, 1893, which is 130 years ago this week is when it started. It was in Taunton, Massachusetts. It had to be moved for, like, jury purposes. During the trial, Lizzie was very quiet because she was like on all these drugs. She was chewing on her fan. It was so hot. She did laugh at one point when there was like a funny witness talking about dresses.

So she has feelings, but most of the time she was just like really quiet. The jury is all men, of course. There's a picture of the jury that is on. Wikipedia. They all look the same. It's like very bushy mustaches, just like white dudes. Actually, black men could serve on juries since 1860 in Massachusetts, but this one was all white men. Women didn't serve on juries until 1951. Wow. Yeah. So, but, oh, but women were there. Women from all over brought food, had pickings outside, tried to get and see it. It was just like there are women all around, just like, of course there are, you know, like this is the most exciting

thing that ever happened. They're going to hang out around the court house. Her lawyer was a former governor of Massachusetts. He was very expensive, but very, very worth it. It was like a dream team. They placed her as a good Christian woman who wouldn't do, dream of doing such a thing. One crazy thing that happened during the trial is they brought the heads, the skulls into the courtroom to show the brutality of the crime, but they didn't tell Lizzie or her sister that they were going to do that. So Lizzie fainted right away. It's kind of a fun day. Yeah. It's kind of a fun day. a fun day at court. Exactly a fun day at court. She also at one point cried until she threw up. So she does have like emotions and it's also really fucking hot. So there's stuff happening.

But the jury deliberated for an hour and a half and she was acquitted. So yeah, I happen real fast. After the trial, Lizzie does move up to the hill. She buys a big house up there. There's a summer bedroom and a winter bedroom. There's 14 rooms. There's Tiffany lamps. She has servants. She names it Maplecroft and has a like a sign made out of concrete on the steps. So she lives in the like lavish house that she presumably always wanted to live in. She changed her name to Lisbeth Borden. I don't know. She changed her name to that. But nobody loves her. Like while she was in the trial, people were like on her side.

But afterwards, like don't want to be associated with her. So like her life was essentially ruined. She got the money and she had to live in a nice house. But she didn't have any like friends. She didn't get to be a part of the like society that she'd wanted to be a part of. But she also never left Fall River. She could have left, but she didn't. did she want that again these are weird people it's like they're just not fun or interesting i don't

know i don't know and like that's also a good point like if this hadn't happened we would never know anything about her and how many millions people we know nothing about billions people because nothing extraordinary happened right but she had this extraordinary thing happen whether or not she did it which is just i think crazy i don't know what do you think what do you think Hold on, I'll get there. So later in life, she does become, like, good friends with an actress from Boston named Nancy O'Neill, or New York maybe. But it's like an actress, and everybody's like, it's same with all time until right now where, like, being an actress was, like, scandalous. And so they think that she used to have Nancy O'Neill come over and have these big parties and the town kind of frowned on that as well.

At some point, Lizzie and Emma have a falling out, and they don't speak for years. In all of the films, they stop talking because Lizzie tells her that she did it. and Emma's like like the the 1975 film and so great Emma is played by the grandma from who's the boss and Lizzie comes home and Emma's like Lizzie you have to tell me did you do it? And it just like zooms into Elizabeth Montgomery's face and it's all her face is very moist the whole time because it's so hot

and the camera pans around her and they sing the nursery rhyme. It's so good. That's awesome. And then in the end there's a Christina Ricci movie and that one ends with her having a party and being like Lizzie is Christina Ricci. and she's like, I, she's like having this party and her sister is like, what are you doing?

And there's music going off and Christina Ritchie whispers to her sister or something and her sister's eyes go wide. So she confesses. So the movies are all like she did. I can't believe that. Christina Ritchie played Lizzie. I got to watch that one. It's also one with Chloe 70 and Kristen Stewart.

That's very, very gay. I'll tell you more about that theory in a minute too. The sisters Emma and Lizzie die within nine days of each other. They die in their 60s. Lizzie leaves the largest amount of money to the Fall River Animal Rescue League, which I also was thinking about when you said that about pets in Manchester in the 1960s or whatever, because this is like the 1920s and they have an animal rescue league in Fall River. So there's like some of it.

She needs money in a trust to care for her father's grave for all time. And Lizzie is buried with her parents in Fall River. So they're buried and like all buried together. So yeah. So was it her? I don't know. Bill James, who had popular crime, says no. Most people on the Lizzie Borden forum think yes. I'm not sure. My whole life I thought it was her. And then this kind of blew my mind because it's like, I thought about it a lot and maybe she didn't do it. She was mad at her dad. He was mean. Her life was boring. Maybe it was incest because, and then it was such like a violent crime because she was so upset about it. This is before the man from the train ex-murters, but it is right after Jack the Ripper. So there is like violence in the news. but he didn't use an axe like so but you'd probably kind of think of like you know what was in there um could she have been gay and been and he like found out and was super upset like some people think

she was having a favorite made which i doubt but or like she had a girlfriend he found out and she's wanted to like live her life um but the big thing is like how could she've gotten clean that seems almost impossible the only so while you were talking i was saying the only way i could buy that she did it was like there was a fit of rage it was not premeditated she cracked them open and by some fluke of cosmic luck all the blood splatter went everywhere but her that's the only way i can make it work yeah yeah i mean that technically could happen because because they might this like here's the plausibility of this remember peter curtain the vampire of yeah duclorf yeah so he would do all the scrounge where he would be killing people out in the public and go home totally clean and

people would be like how is that even possible like he just like learned that like if you stand a certain in a certain spot that the blood splatter would just like avoid you like whatever he like did the math and figured out how to do it so like it's possible yeah yeah totally in the elizabeth montgomery movie they have her do it naked and then she just like washes herself off afterwards but the chances of that are really like low because i bet she was never naked like you know like ever like she probably like washed her body parts separately out of a bowl you know like she didn't like nowadays we get naked all the time because we take a shower but she never did that so i feel like she was probably like a perpetual stew just perpetually changing different parts of her body like never fully naked

so it would be weird that she would do that because also she's like very modest rude yeah so some other suspects are could it be a stranger someone said that they heard someone come to the door in the morning and abby let them in um Andrew had a share of enemies he was like a bad landlord you know that bad but like mean so like you know whatever they could have hide hid in that hall closet that hall closet was huge so they could have gone to that closet hid and then killed um andrew but then also wears the blood yeah just i feel like there have to be footprints and there just weren't any which is so weird um later in life lizzie had a nurse and the nurse said that um she told them she confessed to the nurse that she had a boyfriend

who had done it and hid in the closet and they had and then he like ended up leaving her and was like what happened um a woman obviously this is crazy had a dream that emma came to her her dream and said that she did it that she came into town killed her parents then went back to visit friends um people think that the uncle might have done it his alibi was perfect in like a suspicious way which is like not fair because he had like a perfect alibi um and then think that like also like it could have been bridget the maid she was mad obviously her life sucked but she was sick and she she had to clean it up you know either way she'd just clean up i don't think she would it um so yeah that's it we don't know we don't know who did it it's a crazy mystery because

the facts don't really tell us anything and just like oj like she got acquitted but there was no like find the real killer figure out what really happened the people were just like she probably did it back out off because she was like a nice christian woman and people couldn't believe that she had done it oh j's the one who vowed that he would find the killer though oh great you could just wake up and look at a mirror i don't think he's done much more complicated no he's not out there investigating yeah taking fingerprints outside in the kolt house it's great it's interesting how like one crime can become so iconic like it's a part of culture like this website's hilarious by the way like i don't know if you've gone on the

forum no i'm not on the forum i'm on the website for the house and it's so funny they even have like this section for like you can shop and they like have this ghost called lily the host of ghost doll and it is terrifying looking and it's like they're really really the haunted dog oh god yeah yeah strike like lizzie borden is that a is that like a union shirt oh my god miss elizabeth miss lisabeth's finishing school turning girls into sharp young ladies wait where's the union shirt well it says i strike like like lizzie borden oh that's funny you know um yeah i love these guys like if you look at the staff they look like a fun group and they really i mean they're doing a lot they got a bloody act for sale like it's oh they look real fun yeah they do they look like you'd have a

good time going on a house with them i love them i love that they're all dressed up yeah 100% oh my god susan give you a peace sign i fucking love it um yeah i love it i think it's super fun it's so it's just like a crazy story and also this is like a far far fetch but i've read the book middle march a long time ago which is a English novel written, whatever, a long time ago. But one of the things that it ends with a really, like a line that reminded me of this, I'm going to read it, but I don't know if it's going to make a sense. But for the growing good of the world is partly dependent on unhistoric acts and the things that are not so ill with you and me as they might have been,

it's half owing to the number who lived faithfully a hidden life and rest in unvisited tombs. Meaning like if you just do good things and live a normal life, no one will ever know, but you're contributing to the future in like the subtle way that everyone does. But when something crazy happens, that's when you become like a part of the zeit guys forever. And that's what happened to Lizzie. Yeah, it makes sense. Yeah. So I'm sure her tomb is very visited and I definitely want to go.

And I don't know. And also like, is it another fucking random crime? Someone came to the house and ex-murred or something? Yeah. Yeah, the randomness of it, right? Yeah. I don't know. I, yeah, this is a rollercoaster of an episode.

I know. It started with celebrating the death of Pat Robertson and mourning the death of Tech Dazintki. I know. So much has happened in the past a couple hours. Ooh, I'm watching that. Now I'm looking like a video of the boarded house. Join us to stay, play, and for a hauntingly fun time. I was a parking lot on the back now, is it more, that the thing is gone.

Oh, you can buy a bloody axe? That's a lot. Yeah. You can buy a bobblehead? Brick dust file? What does that mean? I don't know what? I tried to, I clicked on the brick dust.

I thought they'd have an explanation of it, but they don't. I have no idea. EMF detector? Yeah, they're having fun. They are having fun. A pen? A coin for no reason? a mug

a rise and grind coffee mug the cookie cutter is a pair oh no way I haven't got there yet that's awesome they're a fun bunch yeah crazy and like you know

oh it was a Christmas ornament that's what I like to get when I go on vacation I get Christmas ornaments to remember where I've been so I definitely get that when I go there yeah oh live the haunted doll

don't love her don't love the doll George is from the ghost love him CBD coffee cookie cutter's up here anyway anyway how what a fun story i don't know it's fun it's scary it's very of the time you know a a woman who has to what a fucking terrible life what a terrible it's so boring it sounds so boring it's like i would have killed them just for the excitement

of killing someone what an exciting exciting thing that happened that you have to live a life in the nice house and have actors over you know All of that sounds good, but her dad would have died soon anyway. He was, like, in his 60s. So I don't, I don't know. I don't know. Such is life. Taylor, we are a little over our time.

Oh, yes, I got to take a shower and get dressed up for. Do your things. I got to go. I don't know what I'm going to do with Joe. I guess we'll go for a walk or something, but. Oh, my God. hilarious. We'll have a great time.

I will. And we are going to start some awesome advertising for the show here shortly. which will be really really exciting we're gonna get our problem we got like 10 more instagram followers from me doing instagram ads there you go there you go things are happening now to being famous again nobody who doesn't know us listens to this because nobody email me so it's friends only i don't know if that's causation or correlation then we've done the ask twice email us doomed to fill pod at gmail if you don't know us and listen but no one's done it so i think it's all friends i'm i'm gonna

inventing new email address just to know you please make me feel better um yeah please like and subscribe on all of the things we're on instagram twitter youtube facebook at doomed to fail pod and that's what you know you don't know me send me an email there it is awesome thank you Thank you, Taylor. Every day. You too. Go.