Doomed to Fail - Ep 29: The true story of Wolf Creek: The story of Ivan Milat

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

This week Farz starts us off with THE cautionary tale of the Australian Outback, the many murders committed by Ivan Milat. We won’t look up the stats but hopefully, less people are hitchhiking these days - if you do, please be wildly careful or wildly brave like potential victim, Paul Onions. This is the story that the movie “Wolf Creek” is based off of - Farz does not recommend it as a date night movie! Ivan via WikipediaThe Outback and pictures of unrelated people risking their lives via the creative commonsInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpodEmail: [e-mail] Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In the matter of the people of the state of California, first is Hortonthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do your country. So, Taylor, we are up and running, and we now have one full week of experimentation on whether splitting the episodes up seems to be a good thing or a bad thing. I feel like the influx of people writing to us means it's a good thing. Yeah, I mean, also, I mean, that coincides with our ad. I have one person that we don't know.

She did mention that she was like, I could take it or leave it. And I was like, perfect. And then Juan, who we do know, my husband, whose idea was, he was like, you guys sounded nervous and not convinced. And I was like, it was our first time. What did you think we were going to be excited? What?

So I do want to point out that so far, Taylor, I am absolutely crushing us, or crushing it in the rankings. I have one more listen than you have, which... I am worried this is going to tear us apart. It's already starting. It is absolutely already starting. I'm going to get some other devices and just listen to mine, so I can I get one more? There you go.

And I guess in that case, it actually doesn't matter who goes first, because it's going to be spliced up anyways, right? Yeah, well, why don't you go first and we'll just, so we can keep people guessing. Okay, we'll do that. I guess, are we doing the drink thing or no? Yeah, yeah, we definitely can. Okay, so you want something where you're drinking?

Yes, I'm drinking Diet Coke and wine, not together separately. I know you know this, but I just got home from Girl Scout camp and it was super fun, but I've just done like seven loads of laundry. It was very dusty and dirty, but a blast. And we made it just in time our car broke down. All these things happened, but I have wine, if you feel better. The Mazda is still broken down. I mean, there's nothing open on the weekends.

So I had to like, it like broke down in the middle of like a big road here in town. And then it had a weird noise. And then the screen said, warning, pull over now. So I pulled over. And then I drove it to a garage. And they were like, we closed in 10 minutes. You have to be here in 10 minutes. So I drove at only at that point, it wouldn't even go faster than 20.

And it was getting really hot. So I have no idea. I don't know. And so I like kind of coasted into the garage. I made it just in time. And they're going to look at it tomorrow, which is Monday. So, and then I got to the Enterprise Saturday morning to go to Girl Scout camp and they were like, we don't have any cars.

And I started to cry and they gave me a pickup truck. There you go. I'm home and I'm happy to be home. And the Ford truck is still working, right? Oh, yeah. That one's brand new. That one's working fine. I ended up getting a gigantic, I don't know, some GM something.

So I have a gigantic truck now that I drove up into the mountains to our beautiful Girl Scout camp and had a great weekend with my girl. Well, thank God for Henry Ford. his invention of the assembly line. Singularly invented it by himself. I had to do that. That was a little big. Awesome. I'm glad you're back.

You're safe. Everybody's happy and healthy and all that good stuff. And that looks like a nice bottle of wine. Is that 19 crimes? Oh, yeah. This crime was, oh, God. I read it and I was like, that's funny. I think it was like imported coffee or something weird.

I can't remember where it was. Well, we're going to be discussing someone who did worse than import coffee yeah i think that's the joke is that they're not that bad i think australia is trying to read themselves and say we're not all murderers some of us just like accidentally did something small taylor can i tell you how weird it is that you just said that because i'm covering an australian murderer that is so weird this episode is brought to you by 19 crimes australia not just murderers oh my god that's so weird why did you just say that that's so

Oh my God. Guys, we never talked about our episodes beforehand. The fact that Taylor just said, that is like so weird to me. I'm going to fill my gossip to the tippy top with this, and then I'll be one glass of women. Well, I'll kick things off. So I am actually, I'm just drinking electrolyte water. I'm actually going to go to yoga in the park here in Zilker and Austin, which is every Sunday during the summertime, and you basically do yoga with a bunch of strangers, then you hop in a lake. That's the idea.

That sounds gross and very human. And also, I never want to be in a lake again. Oh, my God. I was on a horse this weekend. I was like, never again will be on a horse. And I never want to be in a lake again. You can't see the bottom. There's dead bodies in there.

I'm happy for you. And I'm excited for you. Taylor, it's so weird that you said that too, because someone from my past, this isn't funny. So stop. I'm holding my mind. I'm probably not a spill because I'm laughing so hard. I keep going to put it down. It's very full.

I know someone who was just found in a lake. You do not. Yeah. Swimming happily and having a great time? No. From what I could read, it looks like it was a domestic violence thing, and she was thrown in there after being beaten to death. Oh, no. I'm so sorry.

That's terrible. I know, but then you just said that thing. I was just like, what is going on? Like, what else do you see, Taylor? Like, what's... I don't know, but I'll keep my... I'll put on a Google alert for a far more soaking sandwich for the rest of the day. For when something happens to you.

The media is not going to report that. So I'm just going to drink electrolyte water for the time being, but I do want to have a class of why I'm going to get home from this year of a good thing. So that's what I do. I'm going to take things off with saying that as I mentioned a little bit earlier, we've had listeners write in, which we really, really appreciate it. It's so fun. It's so awesome getting people's feedback and input and thoughts on what we're doing and making

suggestions. And we got one suggestion like that from somebody named Nadine from Alberta, sorry, Edmonton Alberta. Thank you, first off, Nadia, for writing in and your suggestion about looking into more true crime stories that are based out of Canada, our friendly neighbors to the North. So I started researching Canadian crimes, true crimes, that could be interesting. And one thing that I try to do is I try to make my stuff more obscure because I feel like all the big people are already covered to death. There's no need to rehash anything. There's nothing new or interesting. And the more I looked in in Canada, but you guys just generally are way less violent than we are. Like, there's just not that

much there. There's a handful. Robert Hansen comes to mind, which is a pretty bad one that a lot of people probably don't know. But the biggest ones are going to be like the one, the two that you actually mentioned when you wrote into St. D. which was Willie Picton and Carla Homoca and her husband, fiance, whatever, Paul Bernardo. Those are really the big ones that come to mind when you think by Canada. And so I decided to kind of go a different direction. I started looking at other Commonwealth countries and see what might be going on there. And Taylor already ruined it because now you already know where the other story is based in. It is Australia. Oh my god. I feel like recently like after the coronation of King Charles, there were so

many maps that are like, fuck you England for colonizing all the world. And then now you're just like back to England. That's really funny. So like that could be anywhere, but I like that it's Australia. It's true. It could be anywhere. I went with Australia and I was kind of inspired by one one of my favorite movies. I actually own this movie. It's called Wolf Creek. Taylor, have you seen Wolf Creek? I think so. Okay. Is this scary? Yes. Where I've seen it with Jay. Yeah, yeah, you might have seen it with Jay. Also, I'm happy to late birthday, Jay. Oh, Jay, have birthday. I don't think it's scary in terms of, like, goryness or, like, torture pornness. It's more just, like, scary from, like, the perspective of, like, the plot and, like, what ended up going on. The reason that I found it's super terrifying is because it takes place in Australian Outback.

Australian Alpec is huge and menacing. And if you're, like, in trouble in the Australian Albaq, you're on your own. There's no, nobody's saving you. And the story, the actual story isn't in the Australian Albaq. It's actually in New South Wales, which is one of the most populous states in the country. But it does take place in, like, a remote area. The movie itself, the Wolf Creek movie, it is based on the guy we're talking about today. And that is in the Australian Outback.

So the movie is based on a very specific. Civic serial killer who was operating in New South Wales in Australia in the 1980. Well, we think, we know for sure he was operating in the 1980s and 1990s. I'm going to describe why we think he was also operating before then, but we'll get that later. His name is Ivan Malat. And that's what we're going to be discussing today. First things first, I love Ozzy's. Like, I've been to Australia many, many times.

I love it. I love the people. I know you really have been there many times. I applaud you for that scam you pull that nation builder to get free. trips to Australia you know what i'm not going to say it never mind i'm not i'm not i'm not incriminating myself in the public format uh-huh you're like oh i'll come for australia you guys no big deal yeah i think of myself there but it's so fun i love the people the culture's there it's really cool they're so chill it's fun chill people and i think that's a byproduct of like

why you don't hear a lot about vicious serial killers coming out of australies because they're just such a happy-go-lucky kind of people but when they do produce a psychopath they produced a big one. Totally. No, I just wanted to say, I listened to a lot of case file, just in the case file. No.

It's like an Australian guy who does it. But it's like a lot of Australian stories because like you're saying like the outback is so huge. And then like during like, I don't know if this is in your story or not. And I'm probably reading your mind. But like there was so much like hitchhiking. You know.

God damn it. What are you doing? There's so many Australian hitchhiking. reading ruders give me one do you remember in school learning that australian kids had to take do school over the radio no i never heard that it's like that was like in our like social studies book there would always be a picture of like some blonde australian kid with like a short wave wave radio next to like a kangaroo it'd be like it'd be like benny lives in the outback vastly different education systems i would imagine i wonder how many more things you're gonna

guess like just generally to on this episode you're already i do after this should i play the lottery. Yeah, you seriously, Taylor, like, if you're, like, plugged into something right now, like, leverage it. Okay, good. It's just half a bottle of wine. Keep going. Okay, so I bought up our old friends last podcast on the left because they had this method of talking about serial killers in like a tiered fashion. So, for example, they have your A team and that's going to be your Adomers, your Gacy's, your Bundys. Then you have the B team, which is going to be like Eileen Warnos and Gary Ridgeway. Then you're going to have the C and the D team. And usually the way the last podcast team talks about it is that those people are probably more fascinating,

but they are also like super duper brutal in a way that makes them not really that appealing from mainstream perspective. And I think about specifically how they talk about Dean Coral or Bob Radello. Like those two guys were like vicious in a way that like is fascinating to think about from a psychological perspective. But also it's like there's nothing cute about it. Right. You know what you're not. You can like laugh, but you only laugh because you're trying not to like throw up exactly exactly and and that's kind of where this guy ian malat comes in for me is like most people have never heard of this guy the only reason you would have heard of this guy is if you watch wolf freaking like what's this based on then you went down a rabbit hole about

about iven malade because he's just too brutal he's too insane to be charming or appealing i mean you look at what one of these the top guy is like a gay cannibal the other one's a young republican lawyer the other guy's a part-time clown and a budding politician like there's something endearing about them in their own way that this guy doesn't have totally i don't think i've seen milk creek i feel like maybe blair watched it and told me it was awful and she couldn't watch it yeah if i if i had a guess when you brought up the whole jay thing i'm like i know the kind of movies jay likes and this one not be the kind of movie jay would like we've definitely watched like some ones in australia but i think i'm thinking of a different one that involves the lake

but i think that one was like norwegian or like that what is that scandinavian anyway continue I don't think I've seen it. I don't think I've seen it specifically because I think Blair told me not too, because she said it was too much. It's a lot. It's a lot. And I'm going to actually talk about like what parts of Wolf Creek are actually accurate down to the tea as I get into the story. So like I said, this guy, huge piece of shit, total garbage, did absolutely horrific things. And I'm going to start with like one of the first red flags out there. And this is for the ladies who are listening. If you have a husband who is a complete loser who does nothing but just drink on the front porch all day. And all he wants to do is pump people of kids. That's probably a red flag to get the fuck out of there.

So I then had 13 siblings. So 14 children in total, born into an impoverished family in New South Wales. Wait, siblings or children? 14 children, 13 siblings. Ugh. Yeah. Yeah. I just met someone having her fourth baby, and I, like, could not hold my face in.

I was like, a lot of babies. Taylor, you have two kids. Like, I, how on earth? can two adults contain 14 children like it literally can't no well as soon as you have three kids you have to change your life because you have to like get a bigger car and like everything has to change because there's five of you now but i was i watched the dugger documentary the um shiny happy people about the do you do you watch that the duggers are just like a really really just family that were on tv they were like the 19 and counting family oh i remember them yeah yeah and then

one thing they did which was awful because like the girls were never like compensated for the work they did on the reality show and all this, but like when you were 10 as a girl, you would have like two siblings to take care of. Like you weren't going to school. You were like homeschooled quotes, quotes, quotes, and they'd be like, oh, you have like two little siblings to take care of. Like you can't take care of 14 kids. Taylor, if one came to you and said, Taylor, we need 10 more children. I could be convinced to have one more child and I would probably be upset about it because it would be too many that i think three is too many for me personally but no i wouldn't i couldn't do that he got a sec to me we're all set well those are reversible

i'm just saying women like if if a guy comes to you and says i refuse to work i refuse to provide and i also doesn't make any sense it's like red flag so obviously like i said two parents cannot contain a brute of 14 children so they were obviously juvenile delinquents i would say that i mean they're all like they were all scumbags like almost universally they were kind of all scumbags iven actually stood out though because his was a little bit more mean-spirited juvenile delinquency than a sibling so the siblings were doing things like shoplifting candy you know and doing stuff like that whereas ivan when he was when he reached his 20s he kidnapped two female hitchhikers raped one of them at knife point before they escaped and reported

him. Like, that's the kind of, like, he would kill animals with machetes. He would go into the outback and just use kangaroos for target practice, which I get it. They're in invasive species, whatever. But, like, he wasn't doing cute Dennis A Menace type activities with his juvenile delinquency. It was like a little bit next level. At Girl Scout Camp, we did archery. I know we're not talking archery. You're talking about a gun. But I'm really good at it and so as flow. So I think we might consider getting a target in our backyard. Not a kangaroo. maybe you could look like a kangaroo. Yeah, that seems kind of fun.

Just don't start hunting actual animals. No, not on the plan, but I do think it may be cool to have a fake kangaroo with like a target. That sounds terrible, but I think it might be fun if it was like made of hay. Just a picture of our logo. That's actually good branding. Why don't we sell that as merch? Why don't we sell Target Practice pictures of our faces as merch? That's actually a really good idea.

I don't ever hate that. So, Ivan was arrested. And while he was waiting for his court trial for this, this rape charge, he ended up fleeing Australia. He went to New Zealand. And then he came back and was promptly arrested and was found not guilty because this is the 1970s. And I just don't think human society took rape allegations very seriously, like, early on. Yeah. And so he just got off.

I mean, early on, like, it's happening forever. Yeah, it's terrible. Exactly. Exactly. Ivo would move to driving for public transportation for a living. That's basically his job, which is like literally the ideal. It was like Andre H. Cotilla. It's like the ideal job.

Like when you get to like go across, you have no real permanent address. You just move from place to place and that's what he did for a living. And in the middle of all this, you'd also do other stupid shit like burglarized stores, steal cars, things like that. I'm going to start this story with kind of where the domino's started bawling. It was clear to police that something was going on in the late 1980s to early 1990s to early 1990. 90s in New South Wales because they were consistent stories coming out regarding backpackers visiting Australia and then going missing. So you'll show up, be in Australia, be in New South Wales.

The last time they were seen it was a railway station or hitchhiking on the side of the road. Almost all of them were expats, you know, not, well, not expats, like visitors, like Germans, Americans, Brits, things like that. I'd love to hear if any of the listeners out there have any great stories about hitchhiking, did you meet your husband? Did you meet someone who left you in their will? Did you learn how, I don't know, did anything good happen? Man. Except extremely good.

Maybe you got from place to place without being murdered. Like, that's fine. But did anything like awesome happened? Are there like awesome stories of hitchhiking? Like, is that how the Beatles were formed? Like, anything cool? Because it's all, it seems bad. I mean, you got to pick where you hitchhike.

So, like, I would hitchhike in Bel Air because then I would get picked up by like. You would not get picked up in Bel Air. Amal Clooney will pick me up and say, you got to meet my husband. George and it's like cool and then I go over there and I'm like you you're like my double you should be cast in a movie so okay so going back to the story so the concept of a serial killer really wasn't that big at this time and especially was a big in Australia so for context the first time the term quote serial homicide which is the first utterance of anything similar to serial killer came out

was an electrician by FBI Special Agent Robert Ressler in 1974. 1991 is when Domain was captured, which like, this wasn't like a, we're not dealing with like, sure, the cops were probably lazy or not doing great. But like also, can you really blame them? Like it's like the 1980s and people are going missing. It's like, I don't know. Like we'll just look for the one person that goes missing. If we don't find, we don't find it.

There's no connection being made here. Yeah. I can't believe how long that like police reports weren't connected. You know, like, you could, like, and something could happen in Dallas and you wouldn't know in Austin, you know, like, that's crazy. Like, you can't, like, look someone up in a database and be like, oh, yeah, this guy's done a lot of crimes all over the country, you know. I don't know any Australian states, so I just, I just named American states. No, you're right. New South Wales.

New South Wales is a state. Victoria's the state. South Australia. Whatever. I'm not going to. It doesn't matter. I looked up how many serial tours have been documented in both countries. How many?

Taylor, U.S. is 23 in total, how many serial killers were operating in the United States in total? Wait, right now at the moment, or in general, since we've started documenting serial killers. 50.

3,204. Wow. Guess how many in Australia? 3,211. 81. Wow, really? Yeah, so vastly. Well, what's a proportionate

to the number? people uh you know what that was a tab i chose not to click on so i don't go go go go cool cool fine continue okay i'll do the math on top my head one in ten one in ten people in the u.s is a serial killer so the police know something is up but at this point they aren't really entirely what's going on because you get all these reports of these missing hitchhikers they don't know what to do in nineteen eighty two two hikers in the long Belonglo State Forest, I nailed that, Belonglo, State Forest, discover a body.

They report this to the police who find another body about 100 feet away from the first one. The police realized that these are the bodies of Joanne Walters and Caroline Clark, who disappeared five months earlier while hitchhiking in the area. Joanne had been stabbed, and this is going to come up a lot, and this is where I think the, I mean, this is so Wolf Creek. what okay what's the worst what's the worst place to get sad do you think Taylor wait do you die immediately or no no you live in your face no what this guy would do and what they would do in the wolf preach movie is he would

stab between the vertebrae to disconnect the spine to paralyze the person yeah yeah it's going to come up a lot and it came up in the wolf Creek movie and it's a terrifying concept so that's what happened to Joanne she was stabbed to death but one of those stats actually paralyzed her before she ended up dying charlieb had been shot 10 times in the head and police basically presumed that whoever did this was trying to pull a tailor and was using her head as target practice wait what does that mean because you were trying to do target practice the backyard and like this guy's used a head a real person's head though I know it's different it's different. It's very different. I also have a bone era. That's true.

13 months after this, so this is late October, 1993, the bodies of Deborah Everest and James Gibson were discovered in the same forces before. They disappeared on December 30th of 1989 while also hitching. James had been stabbed repeatedly and also had a knife plunged into a spine. Deborah's skull was fractured from a beating she took and she was also stabbed in the back as well, severing her spine. by this point police were like we should probably start doing something and they put together a task force very creatively called the task force error and started working on a profile for the killer during this time a british man named paul onions called this task force and said three years earlier he was hitchhiking in the area and a man who called himself bill pulled over to offer him a ride paul accepted and shortly thereafter bill pulls out a knife and some rope saying he intends on robbing Paul you have thoughts

this was a huge thing on my favorite murder like 10 years ago because they were like we fucking love Paul onions no way okay so you know this story well I know that I know Paul onions because they were like Paulians is a fucking gym dude he comes up again like he's

actually really like he is the reason why this guy is not doing this anymore well then time killing him but Paul makes a break for it when when this guy Bill pulls this gun out and he basically starts shooting at Paul running away from him, like from his car, which is actually also a direct scene in Wolf Creek, which is like one of the people runs away and does that happens.

Paul flags down another motorist to help him escape, and together they describe Bill in his car to the police, which helps zero their list of potential perpetrators down from 230 to this one bill person. So the profiles built a profile of 230 people in New South Wales who this could be. out of that they're like there's one guy who fits this description so that's how they honed in on ivan as this bill character it was around this time that police also found another bundle of skeletal remains in balangelo forest they found the body of simone schmiddle and all who had also been backpacking and hitchhiking across australia and her spine was also severed nearby simone's body was her partner gave her Oh, man. Gabriel? No, these are like super.

There's two German people. There's two other German people that were found. I'll say Gabor and Anya because there's zero chance I'm getting through this last name, either one of theirs. Anya had been decapitated and Gabor had been shot six times in the face. So there's a pattern emerging. Police are seeing a pattern, right? So police have narrowed things down to at least think about Ivan as a potential culprit based on the whole bill situation that David found or Paul found himself. in. They decided to watch and surveil Ivan's movements and see if he tips his hands to anything.

Police called into Ivan's work and found out that he was either off or called in sick on the days that these people have all been reported missing. They also noted that he had sold a vehicle right after two of the bodies have been found, presumably because the vehicle's had incriminating evidence in them. This is where Paul comes in as a hero again. He flew in. Paul's British. He was just in Australia for a vacation. He flew back into Australia from Britain to help positively identify Ivan as Bill because they're doing the surveillance thing. So the police take him up to the house.

He looks out and he's like, yep, that's Bill. And they arrest him for the attempt of robbery of Paul. After they did this, they searched Ivan's house. They found weapons that were consistent with matching with the kind of weapons that were used to shoot the people that he shot, as well as a giant bowie knife that could be used to split someone's spine if one chose to do that and they also okay everyone in Australia is bowing knife so that's cross that off the incrimination list they also had items that the victims owned scattered around his house so you don't need the bowie knife everyone you don't need the

buoy knife yeah that's true so Ivan went to trial and pled not guilty his family tried pretty hard to get him off which i mean that's kind of the type of people they are but really interesting about this is that Ivan claimed that it was like his brothers that did this even when his family was like giving testimony that like I didn't have done this he's up there on the stance saying it was my brother

and pointing to other people in his family saying they did this well they're like he didn't do it instead of being like I didn't do it I kind of love the the hood's brother in 1996 he was found guilty and given life in prison

he would obviously constantly appeal his conviction And he would just start doing some really crazy stuff. So at one point, he cut off one of his fingers and nailed it to the appellate court to say, like, look how badly I need to get for old. Like, he was a wild, crazy dude. He swallowed a bunch of razor blades. He went on a nine-day hunger strike one time because he won a PlayStation and the penitentiary wouldn't give him one. Which, like, that one I kind of get.

That one is kind of understandable. You do what you got to do, I guess. Razor blades are too. Hunger strike I can do, not razor. What year is that? What's the? 96. Okay, that makes sense.

In 2019, thank God, he died a very, very horrible death of stomach and esophagus cancer at the ripe old age of 74 years old. Wow. He apparently only ever confessed to killing these people to his mother, because him and his mom were apparently really close. And apparently, the word is that he told her that he did this. But otherwise, maintain his innocence the very end. You actually watch a YouTube clip of him.

being interviewed at the very end. So this is when he has like late stage cancer. And they're like, Ivan, just tell us what's going on. Just tell us what happened. And he said something like, you can take a blow torch to my eyes and my tongue. And I, I could not tell you what you want me to tell you or something like you really held on to his innocence. I feel a little bit torn. I usually am like, you should just say that you did it if you're going to die because whatever.

But I also kind of feel like good for him. I don't know why I feel that way. I'm kind of proud of him. Yeah, like, all right. Yeah, you really believed it. He did it, he did it, right, though. It was not like he didn't. No, he for sure did it.

Like, they literally found their stuff in his house. Like, it was very clear. Also, he was, he should have been convicted with raping two women by knife point when he was like 27. Like, he wasn't like a, he wasn't good. No, no, no, no. Yeah. So during Ivan's incarceration and even following his death, police started investigating other crimes that could be attributed to him. The task force that was assigned to catching him aggregated a total of 58 other cases of missing backpackers during the years I would have been active. Behavioral profilers noted that the first known killing that Ivan committed was when he was 45 years old.

And they also noted, yeah, they're like, they're like, yeah. If anything, he started in his 30s, maybe even his 20s. Yeah. So as of right now, police feel really, really confident as to three other murders that they can attribute to Ivan. So in 1971, that's how early we're going back. The murder of a pregnant Karen Rowland who disappeared while traveling to Canberra, her body was discovered a month later. Eyewitnesses at the time reported seeing a gold-colored Ford chasing after Karen's vehicle. At this time, Ivan lived in the area and also owned a gold for the Fairmont.

That's not suspicious. In 1987, Peter Letcher was hitchhiking to his parents' house and never arrived. His body was found in a cave system a few months later. Ivan's wife, I forgot to mention. I was married for a period of this time. Ivan's wife reported that he would frequently go on hikes at or in the cave system. And that the day, around the time that this guy went missing, Peter went missing. and his wife had left him shortly before that

it happened. They also found that Peter had multiple gunshot wounds to his face and stabbed wounds to his body. Was there anything sexual to it? Because it's like men and women. Oh, I just skipped over the fact that he literally raped every woman. Cool, cool, cool, cool.

Did he raped the men? No, no. So he just wanted to kill them at that point, but he raped at the limit. Yeah, most of the people that he ended up catching, it makes sense. Most of the people that ended up catching and killing were a couple. So he would, you know, if you watch like Wolf Creek, would they insinuate in that is that he would paralyze the man using the booey knife to then rape the woman in front of him, then kill the man in front of the woman and then kill the world. Like there was a chronology of this.

He wanted to get like the horror out of the experience as much possible. That's a fucking horror. Yep. Well, congratulations. Yeah, he did it. like he definitely he definitely lived his dream in 1991 diane pinocchio i swear that's actually what it looks like it's it is she went missing while trying to hitchhike in some australian town that i can't pronounce it's like queen's queen's bayon or something but i'm not gonna whatever

just assume it's some australian town she had her spine supper so police immediately made the link there especially because where she disappeared was an area that they knew ivan was living in active him because they found other bodies in that area Like, that's what it ties both together. Yeah. Okay. So I'm going to tell you. Okay.

What can I guess? Yes. 72. I'm nervous. Am I right? You might be. You actually might be. Okay.

So the three that I just counted off to you, those are the ones that police are talking about. Those are the ones where they're like, we're damn sure that you have to go? No, no. Oh. I'm just moving my body while you're talking. Keep going. I'm a standing, I'm a standing desk. It's like you're working out, drinking, educating yourself.

You get all of it. I mean, I can see your knee. You're like very casual right now. I'd be very casual. Okay, go ahead. Continue. So these three are the ones that police are talking about. Then there are six others that police are basically acting as though Ivan's like the main person of interest,

but they won't come out and say, Ivan, we think he did these as well. So now we're up to 16 people in total. then there's 23 armed murders where Ivan is a person of interest so that so that so there's also another cohort here of ones that haven't even we haven't gotten to yet so it could be 70 plus but this is where we're at right now wow but luckily he's dead luckily he's dead he died in 2019 so fairly recently he lived a pretty good life given that he lived to be 74 years old although it sounds like his time in prison was an absolute torture. And he got the shake-heaked out of him on his first day, which was nice.

Yay. How long was he in prison? He went into 96 until 2019. So what is that? Math? 23 years. Which, interestingly, is longer than most of his victims lived. Because most of his victims were 18 to 22 years old.

Ugh. Youth is too bad. Don't go ahead. So that is our story, which Taylor mostly predicted. did if you all haven't seen wolf creek this is not i i'm like i'm actually so we want to see it i actually own wolf freak i'm probably going to watch it tonight but i will say this like guys if you're like into horror and you're trying to introduce your girlfriend or like the girl you're seeing into like horror and it's like it'll be cute watch a more movie and she'll oh man it is just

violence it is not fun violence it is not saw violence it is like i don't know what you compare to like it's like watching shimmler's list on a date like it's just not going to in my opinion i agree i would not want to watch it like oh my god nobody's nobody's into like hanging out after that experience so that's my tail the tale of iven malott and the tale of australia's vicious vicious serial killer wow there's lots more there it's just i looked up how long does it take to drive across australia i think if you like didn't stop it would take four days but it's big the entire middle of it 20% and it's like nothing in the middle of it yeah 20% of australio australia's landmass is desert yeah but just desert isn't like nothing

exists like it is it is a scary place and that's why wolf creek works so well is because it's all set out in the middle of middle of the desert so anyways that's the tale uh i guess we're gonna fake cut it off here and do the magic of editing i have wait i have i have listened to our mail for both So for this one, I do, I wanted to also, Nadine wrote back, our Canadian friend, she wrote back and we're talking about child abductions. And she read the book, Relax, a user's guide to life in the age of anxiety. And I don't think that I might have read that too. But Professor, I read something similar, but Professor Tiffany Caulfield, she said, kind of examines about kids walking to school and why you don't have let your kids walk to school on anymore because we're talking about kidnappings, like at malls and stuff. And basically it like barely ever happens. It's like a extremely, extremely rare to have a kid just, like, picked it up off the street. Like, if someone, you'd have to leave a kid alone on the street for a thousand years for him to be, like, for a thousand, 100% odds of him being taken by a stranger. So, like, it's very rare. And my friend Ben, who lives in Florida, he also talked about it, too, who said in reality, like, 99.999 kidnappings are either parental or a 15-year-old taking off to Florida with her 18-year-old boyfriend.

So, like, that's definitely true. that happens a lot there and also most trafficking um is like taking advantage of people and nothing like taken the movie so that's good news that's good news probably not going to get kidnapped but if you do you're very special i think i think the ramifications of it's like it's like a plane's also not going to crash but whatever it's what it happens was your first thought your first thought is holy fuck the scene's going to go down totally what i can't find me get for two seconds i'm like they're gone i'm going to be on the news bill burrow had a really funny skit or uh comedy special about like kidnappings and kids where he's like there's a reason why american kids are getting more

and more obese so that they're less um kidnappable because they're too heavy to move probably me and spirited but also he doesn't he does it better than i do so wait we have two oh my god everyone i'm so sorry no that was it that was ben and adine we're cutting off now follow us at doom to fail pot on instagram on twitter on facebook on threads which is new and we're on that now on youtube put everything on youtube oh of course here put everything on youtube and then yeah so we're going to do two episodes this week today's monday and then we're going to do the next one on wednesday we're going to dip into history thank you by all