Doomed to Fail - Ep 3 - Part 1: Discovering Pocahontas: Her Life and Legacy

Episode Date: September 22, 2023

Today, we re-visit the story of Pocahontas - and we mention the predator John Smith, who acted like they were lovers to get attention and fame, which is gross because she was literally a child. Eventually, after being kidnapped and baptized (related events), Pocahontas marries another white dude named John and dies in smokey ol' England at a very young age.It's not a fairy tale - but she seems pretty fearless and obviously special to have captured our hearts for so long.Pics via the CC and #midjourney (we asked it to imagine her as a #disneyinfluencer)More on PocahontasPocahontas: Her Life and LegendThe True Story of PocahontasPocahontasShort history of PocahontasInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail]  Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

everyone it's taylor welcome to episode three part one where i talk about pocahontas and john smith kind of i don't know if he really deserves to be talked about but um it's a pretty tragic tragic story all around definitely not happy not a happy ending so that's i guess the big question is was she happy my guess is no but but i don't know i don't want to speak for her so hope you enjoy and i'll see you on the other side the matter of the people of California versus Ornthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Welcome to Doom to Fail, the podcast where we have to come up with signature drinks to temper down

how sad we are about the stories that we're about to tell you. I'm Fars, joined here by Taylor, and every week we'll be bringing you two tales, one historic and one true crime, related to relationships that were doomed to fail. What's our signature drink this week, Taylor? So, thank you, Fars. So today we are, our alcoholic drink is a Mai Tai. What isn't a Mai Tai forest? It's like, it sounds tropical, papaya. It is tropical.

So Mai Tai typically contains age, agricultural, whatever that is. Cool. Rum, real shroom lime. You know, I'm reading off of a very, very old and outdated my type recipe. I'm thinking rum. I feel like a pinia clotta-ish kind of thing. A happy drink. It's a happy drink for a very unhappy story.

Okay, okay. And then for our non-alcoholic drink, we'll be drinking just the colors of the wind. So just stand outside and let the wind hit you. That is our non-alcohol drink. Faris, do you want to tell us who you? you're talking about and then I'll go into mine. I am going to be discussing the Anthony Tote family murderers. I'm very excited. I'm taking my white cloth. I'm very excited because I don't know what that is. I haven't heard that before. Before we get there, I'm going to talk about the tragic story of

Pocahontas and her husband, John Rolf, which is a relationship that ultimately led to her death at a very, very young age. Taylor, you don't know this yet, but our stories have a very unusual overlap. Oh, my God. I'm so excited. Which I'll disclose to you after I get to my story. But yes, very interesting that you picked Popahontas. Cool.

Okay. That's awesome. I'm happy to hear that. Because, I don't know. That's cool. It's like we planned it. So I got some of those information from the internet, nps. dot go, Smithsonian Magazine, History Channel, and listen to the podcast, the short history of Pocahontas

as well. So I also listened to our first episode, and I want to try to say, um, less. So I'm going to work on that. That's my growth edge in this episode. I wanted to do far as something Texan, because we're in Texas together. And usually I'm in California and you're in Texas, but we're in the same house, even though we're in different rooms. And I'm super excited that we're together. So last minute, I decided to look up Stephen F. Austin and see if he had a any relationship stuff, but he was just a piece of shit who wasn't married. And I just someday, maybe I'll talk about the history of Texas, but the history of Texas is a history of white people who wanted to leave America so they could have slaves. And Mexico being like, absolutely not,

you cannot have slaves here and white people fighting to have slaves. So every town named after a white man in Texas is named after a piece of shit. Lovely. Yeah, the things that Stephen F. Austin said about slaves and slavery and enslaved people are disgusting. He was a bad guy and he died young without any love. So at least. And that was our two-minute Texas history lesson as we discussed Pocahontas today. So then I was thinking about colonizers. So I want to talk about the most famous woman, indigenous to North America, and that's Pocahontas. We'll talk about her and her second husband, John Rolf, who was totally complicit in her death because he took a person to Europe who had never been there. And so we know

that's obviously going to kill someone of some disease. So for Pocahontas, this is a banana's time to be alive. She's born into a world that's dramatically different from the one that she dies in. And far as, I want you to stop being to stop at points to think about, what was she thinking? Like, was she happy as things are changing and things are going crazy in her world? You know, what was she excited? What would it have been like for, you know, a person sort of watching this alien civilization come in and try to take over.

So this is like a time, this time and every time before, like now, you didn't know about what was going on in the rest of the world. So people, a people you've never seen before could walk into your neighborhood and be like, hello, we're here to like, we're the Mongols, we're here to colonize you. We're the Romans. We're the blah, blah, blah. And you've never seen them before. And you don't have any idea of how big the world is.

So I think that's crazy. I think the expectation when, if you were alive at that point, is that you could, you and anybody you know can die at any point in time by anybody and you have no idea, like, to your point, how big the world is. And who could show up at your doorstep and say, now we own you? Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Terrifying.

Terrifying. Just absolutely crazy. So just imagine if, like, aliens came down today and they started to try to learn our language and that was all happening. That's pretty much the same thing that was happening to Pocahontas. So she was born around 1596, and her name, a couple different names that she may have had, and oh my God, I apologize to the indigenous people of the United States of America and everywhere in the world for the way I'm going to pronounce some of these things in this episode. But she was born Meotoka or Amonute. So maybe those names, Pocahontas is sort of her nickname, and it means like playful little fun thing.

So that's her cute nickname she got when she was a kid. Her dad was Chief Powhatan of the Powhatan Nation, which is part of the Algonquin Nation and all over, like they were in Virginia and that part of America. And she was born to one of his many wives. So he had several wives and there was not really a lot of information about her mother. So she may have died in childbirth, but she was like one of 26 siblings to her dad, Chief Powatom. So 26 siblings. Yeah, but it's different ladies. So hopefully nobody had like 20 of them or something.

But it would be rough. There's a lot of them. But it's kind of like a communal living kind of thing. So she just kind of goes back to the village where her mom was, her mom lived. And then the dad goes around to other villages and has his other families there. So like good for him. He gets to move around.

And the legend is that she was her father's favorite. But like I feel like we made that up because of what we, how we want to put her into our history, but they said that she was her dad's favorite. And it was nice. It was kind of a war-torn place. Like they were always trying to conquer other villages and like expand their areas, but it was fine. And everyone worked all the time, but there was a lot of music. And the women learned how to build houses and do the gathering. So women actually had a really like, like not a terrible place in the society. They had jobs and they were able to choose who they married and they could get divorced. So divorce was like very popular.

popular but like common because they would wouldn't want like no one wants that couple who's fighting all the time living in town you know it was just like i feel i feel like that was a point to dig at me it was not i'm just saying that like if you're not having good time get divorced it's fine so amen don't kill your spouse this is a big rule that we're you know a big thing that will come back to over and over again but so that's all that's all you know allowed so it's a pretty you know it's decent life. You know, people didn't really wear a lot of clothes. It was still pretty, like, primitive, but they were expanding and all of that. So all of a sudden, these ships start coming in to do reconnaissance. So this is the, like, imagine the ship coming down from space movement. And

people come out and kind of look around and then go back. So they know that there's something else out there and there's something else coming, but they don't know much about them yet. And this is happening when she's a little girl. So all of a sudden, a ship comes and they stay. And the one that stays, creates a colony, and it's Jamestown. So what do you, as far as a person who grew up in America, know about Jamestown on the spot? I, yeah, so I'm trying to go back. That's the town that Lucy's character and I Love Lucy is from. She's from Jamestown in the show. Is it really? Oh, my gosh. Yeah, it really is. She was Lucy McGillicuddy then. But I also, I also vaguely remember that that was one of the first colonies that was settled in the U.S.

It's not Roanoke. It's not the one. It was not the crazy one where people just disappeared overnight. But it was like it was, I feel like it's the same time. Same timeline. Yeah, exactly. That's mostly what I know about it. Perfect.

Yes. So yeah, Roanoke was the one where they like disappeared, but probably just went out to get food and became part of the tribes. But yeah, James sounds the same time, the same type of people. They came from England. They came in 1607. So remember, Pocahontas was born in 1596, so she's like almost 10 or and, or 10. And they found this land in this area and they were like, oh, it's a peninsula.

It can be protected. This is a great place to like build a fort and put up walls and do all these things. And the reason that the Powhatans didn't live there is because it was a bad place to live. It could be defended, but the land was terrible. There were tons of bugs. You couldn't drink the water. And it was just a terrible place to build. a town.

Taylor, can I interrupt you real quick? Of course. Are you saying, how do you spell Powaton? Oh, great question, because I had to look up how to pronounce it. I'm saying P-O-W-H-A-T-A-N. And the way I wrote it after looking it up is Pow-A-T-A-Tan. Do you know what that word means in the native language? No, do you?

No. I'm derailing for no reason. the reason I know I'm super there's a tribe in Brazil that's called Powhatan that is a that's it's like it's a warrior tribe basically and and I've recently learned about this and that's why I brought it up because I was like is there potential like maybe like some people left the Americas and went down south or I don't know I just thought maybe they're tangentially related but probably not no they totally could be because it was so the Powatown's a part of the Virginia Algonquin now I went to Wikipedia and look at this

But they also, there was also like the name of Pocahontas' dad and the name of the language. So it's like a word that's used for a lot of different things. So I think it's possible. Some survivors relocated elsewhere, I think it's mostly North America. I'll stop derailing. Okay. I mean, we could look it up later. And then all this goes away and nobody knows that we had this conversation.

I love that. No, this is perfect. Keep it in. So I lost where I was. Okay. So the colonizers are in Jamestown and it sucks. There's no way to get food. There's no way to get water. People are dying. There's like the rumor is obviously that they resorted to eating each other because they were starving. Like two thirds of them died before they got any help. So it's a terrible time to be a colonizer. They're only on this little peninsula and things are really bad. So they thought that they would be able to offer goods to the Powhatan for food. So it would be like, oh, I have. have this jacket or whatever and like try to trade it for food. But there actually isn't any extra food because it was a bad time for them also. So it was just like a shitty crop year or whatever. And they didn't really have extra food. So they weren't like full on like hunter gatherers. They did do some growing crops and that sort of thing. But they rotated their crops, which is something that like I like to yell about in other places as well.

because a lot of white people came to America and they were like, looked at the indigenous people and they were like, you guys are so dumb. You could be growing so much more if you just planted all the land, ignoring the fact that for thousands of years, these people have been rotating their crops to make sure the land is good. So of course, that leads to things like the dust bowl and things in like America that would, that all the land goes to shit because white people weren't paying attention to the way people have been doing it for thousands of years. So crop rotations essentially let the land rest, let half the land rest, you know, plant in the other half. And then when that's done, let that rest and tend the other half. Exactly. Exactly. And so like in Oklahoma,

when the dust bowl happened, what happened when it happened was all of the native grasses that would grow on the land during the rotation time stop growing. And that held the land together. And then it was just like dust and sand. So they just, that's why like it was uninhabitable after a couple of years. Taylor, again, sidetracking here at my old house in L.A. You know how we had that backyard and there was just like grass. It was just overrun in the backyard and it slowed all the way down. I hired someone to mow that grass and I was out of town and my ex sent me a picture of what they had done when you saw it. Hours later, they'd ripped out all the grass.

Like there was nothing there but just dirt. And I immediately thought of the dust bowl and was like, holy shit, the entire side of this hills going to go crashing down. Luckily, I didn't, but that was my first inclination when I saw that. No, totally. Time will tell of the next earthquake how that house, how that house goes. Yeah, exactly. You can't rip everything out by the roots and expect it to be the same stable place. Totally. So anyway, so there's not just, there's not enough food for them. So they're not sharing it with the people in Jamestown. And also the people in Jamestown owe money back to England because they like borrowed money to come to, uh, to come out to the new world. So they're

supposed to be bringing things back to England and they're not because they don't have anything. So they're stuck in their, I wrote, I wrote, now they're stuck in their fork because they're assholes and they keep leaving and trying to steal things because they can't get anything by trade or by like normal means. Um, and so they're trying to make a pact and they can't figure it out and things are super tense because obviously like even though the, um, colonizers have less people and they're all super sick. They also have like guns. And so a little bit more intense military power than the Powhatans have. So that balance is still not fair.

So one thing they did that I think was actually really cool is they sent kids to each others, like villages to learn the language, which totally makes sense. Because like if you sent me to a Powhatan village, I'd be like, I don't know what to do. But if you said like a three-year-old who's already learning language to that place, they'd be able to learn it a lot easier. right makes sense yeah so the english sent a boy one of the boys his name was thomas savage and he moved in and learned the language and they said and one thing i read it said that pocahontas was sent um to james town to learn english but and every other thing else they always sent boys

don't know if they really would have sent her but whatever either way she speaks she learns how to speak english so it starts with the kids the kids learn her to speak english just like now if someone moves to america usually the kids learn how to speak english like before the parents do So who is the person that you would think that Pocahontas was married to? The blonde long-haired dude in that movie. Yes. Do you remember his name? It had to be John Smith, right?

It's John Smith, yes. Yeah. So John Smith is a number of colonizers, and he goes out in this little group to find supplies. They said he literally drew the short straw and goes out there. And everyone in his group gets kills. and then they're like about to kill him and Pocahontas like jumps in front of him and says no don't kill him let's be peaceful and nice um which is probably not true and she was 10 and when this happened and john smith then later writes a book and says she jumped in front of them and she wouldn't

let them kill me and then we totally fell in love and you're like uh ew she's 10 and then later he's like oh no no she was 13 which is still gross and not that much better no but neither of those things happened like they did not fall in love at any point and like who knows if she actually really saved him but he does survive and now like he's like talked about her and he romanticizes his relationship with her his whole life like not like sexually romanticizes them the whole time but it's very much like this is like showing people that like the savages are have humanity and blah blah blah he like talks about her a lot really like exploits their their relationship to what to what benefit to like say to like sell books honestly for him to go back and like sell

books about his time in in the colonies okay yeah common thread between our stories number two i'll point that out to you later oh my god excited um so none of that's true but whatever she did meet john smith and then she starts to you know she actually is growing up she does become like a a teenager and in this time you can actually picture her a lot like the movie like the clothes that a young woman would wear like i mean like the cartoon the young woman would wear is like that one shoulder dress or i don't know if you remember and she started to get tattoos and like that kind of thing she's starting to kind of grow up and then for a couple years um she's kind of off the map um but i feel like do you did you watch the cartoon i feel like i should have prepped

you and had you watch this cartoon before we started i haven't seen it in so many years that I might as well have not seen it by this point. Okay. So there's a whole part of her song in the in the cartoon where she's talking about her dad wants her to marry this guy and she doesn't know if she

wants to marry him, blah, blah, blah. And his name is Cocoaum. And I think this is the biggest shocker to me in this whole freaking story is that she really was married to Cocoa which is it like I don't even have a

words because I wrote down is like that pop point in the movie is very, very stressful. And it was for me, I'm imagining for like 70 to 80 percent of kids who watch the movie, because Kokoam is like in the Pocahontas cartoon, he is the first person that I ever saw with chest tattoos. And I was like, yes, you should marry him. What are you talking about? You know, he was like, like imagine like if they did a live version of this movie, Kokoam would be Jason Mamoa and there would be a global emergency because everyone who

watched the movie would get pregnant because I'm watching the movie. That is solid casting. That would be really solid casting. I like that. So that's who Kokoam is. I think in the zeitgeist of young people who watched

Pocahontas of a certain age. But she did marry him and all evidence is that they were in love. Like she was allowed to, she got to marry. He was like in the military but not necessarily like the like a you know the best warrior anything it just seems that she likes him and they get married they may have had a daughter but we don't really know and then he kind of disappears out of her story so

they could have gotten divorced which is totally fine or he may have died either way they don't get they're not married forever but they are married when she's like a young woman and he's like a young man so she just have the first marriage the way you describe him he does seem like a risk taker like he would have a Harley and also not wear a helmet, you know? Yeah. It was probably a boar. I don't know why. I just think he like got gored by a wild boar.

That feels plausible for that time. No, I definitely think that may be true. Like, you died in like a big hunting trip or doing something like super hot and heroic. Yeah. How we're going to lose Jason Mamoa and how we lost cook one. Exactly. Exactly.

So she's, you know, kind of living her life. She's married. She's hanging out. there's still kind of this tense thing that obviously the Jameson people are still there and they really, really want to make more trade and, you know, kind of do more stuff with the Powhatans. So one of her jerk friends says, oh, there's a new boat at the shore. We have to go. And she's like, I don't want to go.

And they're like, you have to come with us. And they go. And then, like, her friend is like, oh, I really want to go on board. Come with me. And so she goes and they eat like dinner. And then Pocahnah says, like, something's weird. And of course, something's weird. If her friend sold her out and she gets kidnapped.

So she's kidnapped onto this boat. They lock her in a room and are trying to, like, get ransom from her dad. And she's out there for a full year. She's kidnapped by the white people. She's in Jamestown and, like, a town next to it. And now there's, like, a full-on war. Her dad kind of concedes, but, like, not really. So there's, like, a whole bunch of stuff going on.

It's not great. So this is, like, worst case for Jamestown because they're not getting help from the natives. They're not getting any resources. and they're trying to like, they're really instigating things by having Pocahontas. So she's there for a year and guess what they try to do to her while she's there? I mean, I can imagine. It's not like a physical thing, a mental thing. They make her a goddess.

No, they convert her to Christianity. Of course. It's so stupid. I mean, come on, obviously. Of course that's the first thing you do. Of course. So, like, of course what they want to do is save the heathens. And they want to fucking save Pocahontas from, you know, her beautiful life.

And they convert her to Christianity and guess, and they, not guess what they name her. You're never going to guess. But they name her Rebecca. I know. And I know Rebecca, who I like a lot. I know there are Rebecca's, it's a beautiful name. But like, come on. Her name's Pocahontas.

She's like this, like, amazing, like, trailblazing woman. And you named her Rebecca and meet her and baptized her. it's basic basic shit so basic so now her name's Rebecca and um this is where she meets her second husband john ralph and this is where there are red flags that i will point out for you for this marriage so she's 17 which is like old hat by now because she's already like had a baby and been married probably had a baby he's 27 i think that's maybe okay in this time she was not okay she had to convert first to Christianity and then he like wrote like a letter to the governor of the area that was like I need permission to marry this heathen I'm so torn because she's like super hot but also she's a heathen essentially you're like fuck you dude I mean yeah I like to think of things within the time frame in which they happened and maybe that was like you had to do that yeah that's fair fine if you didn't have a choice I mean I'd probably not call my wife a heathen although maybe he then had a different connotation back then than it does now it doesn't okay then that's a bad thing

to call your wife but so he's like it's a second marriage as well he's a widower and he's a tobacco farmer he has a plantation he may have stolen tobacco seeds from the spanish and brought them to virginia so to get like the good tobacco in america which obviously like starts a whole a whole thing um and they're married on april 5th 1614 and they have a son in january the next year and then did you see this thing on the news this week about how Edward Norton is a direct descendant of hers? Wait, I thought it was something out. Oh, yeah, you're right. You have the right descendant of her. That's crazy. Yeah, and that's from this son that she had. So his name is Thomas Rolf. And so from Thomas, we get Edward Norton, which is fun. And so now Bokoaghanas is living on a goddamn tobacco

plantation with other indigenous people essentially like working the land for them. But by all accounts, she's happy. She's just like, this like Christian woman on this plantation. like living in a house named Rebecca. And this is, this time is called the piece of Pocahontas. It's nine years a piece between the white people and the indigenous people. So this is a part where I'm like, I don't know, is she happy? Like, could she be happy? Is she like?

I don't know, what is Pocahontas? What does her status have to do with there being this piece? Because she's like the favorite daughter of the chief and she's been someone who's called like back and forth and like met all the and forth and like met a lot of the people on the like in like in james town she can communicate really well and i think also that she was converted to christianity is a big part of it too because then she's like you know showing that they can be saved and all these things and then they're like we don't want to ruffle any feathers whether that was i didn't mean that that was not a pun but they didn't want to like um you know do anything weird where she would get like killed so it was just like a

tense piece but a piece um and then at the end of this time the king of england wants to to see her and wants to meet her and asks her and John to come to England. So they go. They take their son and they go to England, to London. They go to parties and balls and the concerts and they meet the king and all this stuff. And so she's really just like there. This is where we get like the one engraving of her and it's engraving and I'll put it on our socials, but she, you know, is wearing like colonial garb like the whole thing and, you know, you know, look. like a, you know, like a colonial person. It's wild. And the other crazy thing that happens while she's there is she meets John Smith again. And she thought he was dead. Just like assumed

he was dead because it had been like, I don't know, 10 or 10 years since she'd met him. And he's there and there's a whole bunch of different accounts on what happens. But fucking John Smith, he writes that she was yelling at him as like a spurned lover would yell at someone, you know, like, blah blah blah other people are like she was yelling at him because he's a piece of shit and she was saying you englishmen lie to him like over and over again when she was yelling at him but he's like oh yeah she's just like jealous she still loves me blah blah because he's a jerk and um another thing that people say is that she also may have tried to call him father because he had that like she saw him as like an older person and he was upset about that because he told everybody that

they were dating i'm kind of with john on this one that she couldn't have questioned have called him father no that she probably was still into him because like she was never into him why would you care so much like if i went into someone that i dated like five years ago i'm not going to be i don't care what you do or why would i why would i have emotional attachment to that person unless i actually was still into them no they did not date she was 10 when they met he was a grown man they did not date he told everybody that she could have been 13 fine he he told everybody that they dated and they did not and then he was using that to like excuse that she was yelling at him but i feel like she was if anything i would hope that she was yelling at him

and being like look what you did you little jerk you know like to my people um but who knows we have no firsthand accounts from her and what her life was like but her life was so short so you know she moved to a suburb of london and it's gross london is gross like London is like there's no again sticky no running water like there's no air like there's one account where she's like in a carriage and she's like holding a handkerchief over her face because she can like barely breathe because she's used to being in these beautiful forests with fresh air and fresh water and all these things and now she's in freaking London where it's disgusting and so she's just like not having a good time and she finally gets to go um gets to go home

and they get on a boat she's 21 years old and they don't even leave, like, the area. She dies before they even get to leave. She dies of the disease on the boat. It could be anything like, you know, smallpox, any, like, diphtheria, any of those terrible diseases that you get when you're a person who hasn't been exposed to them. So she got a disease, or anyone, really, because they're, like, everywhere. She got a disease to take her body back to England and she's buried in England. They said her last words were, almost die, but tis enough that my child liveth.

So her son Thomas stayed in England, came back to America in 1635, tried to find his Powhatan family, and he was a little bit successful possibly. But then he moved back and John Rolf got married again and had another chapter of his own life with his third wife and all of that. But Pocahontas, she at 10 years old, she allegedly saves John Smith's life. And 11 years later, she's dead on a boat in England. being, like, converted and having all this crazy stuff happened to her. I'm a bit conflicted. Is this a sad life or not? I don't know. And that's, like, the question that I want to talk about. Like, I am sad about it because I feel like that is that she was, like, taking advantage of because she was, like, kidnapped, you know, and, like, had to marry this guy, John because

he, like, said he loved her and, like, who knows if they really loved each other. Because I don't know what she was thinking. And I have no evidence of what she was. thinking so maybe i'm an asshole and she was super excited and was like this is exciting i'm an explorer like i'm out here like doing these things that like only chiefs do because i'm talking with translating and talking to governors and doing all these things and i'm learning and i get to go across the ocean to these lands that we didn't even know existed so like in one case maybe she's excited you know but in another case maybe she's just like really taken advantage of and exploited as being

the like an example of a person that they were able to convert to you know their ways and this romanticized figure obviously because we talk about her all the time as like someone who bridge that gap between the two vastly different cultures. But I don't know, did she want to? How did she feel? I have no idea. I wish she would have lived longer to tell us. You know, I think that's the real tragedy for me is that we don't have anything from her. We just have like the what people say about her and they needed to have this like beautiful story to have it make sense. I get a little bit of Patty Hearst vibes.

Mm-hmm. No, that totally makes sense. Like some Stockholm syndrome, like, oh, yeah, now I'm on this guy's side and all of that because she had to, like, live with them and, you know, convert to all the things that they were doing. And so she probably was like, yeah, no, I totally, I don't know, maybe this is, maybe you think this is better, like this is better for the world that you're here in doing this. Yeah, interesting.

Yeah, because the parallel universe, the parallel timeline is she's not kidnapped for nine years and she is allowed to. What a seminal moment, though, that her friend asked her to go check out this ship. That's crazy. That's what it all happened. That is such a great example of a fork in a road that can actually derail your path. Right. And for all by all counts, she didn't want to go. She was like, ugh, I don't want to go.

And her friend was like, please come with me. Like, I need you to translate. I really am excited. and her friend sold her out and got her kidnapped to, you know, that started a lot of things. So, yeah, I know she definitely didn't want to do that. Like, that's documented. So maybe she didn't want to do any of it, you know? Maybe she would still want to marry to Cocoaum.

Maybe they got divorced, but maybe they got divorced and they're still friends. And they can just hang out. I mean, they could have remarried. They could be married. Maybe she's someone who gets married four times, but three times of them is to Cocoaum. A lot of multiple marriages on our stories. We know very little about him, but I'm definitely pro-Cocoam. Yeah.

No, totally. Okay. Let's, and now I see why the non-alcoholic drink is just standing outside and having the wind hit you. Yeah, it's color of the wind. When I picture Pocahontas, I, rightly or wrongly, picture the Disney cartoon of her just standing on a rock with wind blowing her hair back. leaves or like around her head. Yes, that's what that's what we're thinking when we're outside just kind of breathing in the world and the last time that the world felt maybe safe for a 13, 10 year old, possibly girl. Yeah. Wow. Awesome. Very cool storyteller. Thank you for sharing. That was

I'm laughing because I'm like one thing I was like, we need more banter and also like, that was not very funny. I feel like I need to have been in it. It's just a tragic story, but it's just interesting and, yeah, it's crazy. It's fine. I mean, they're not hungry to be the same. Yeah. So, um, so. Hey, everyone.

Thanks for listening. Hope you enjoyed. We'll be back next week. We'll be released part two of episode three. and if you have any questions or ideas, please let us know. We're at doom to failpod at gmail.com. We're on all socials at Jim DeFailPod. And also on Substack, you can find us there and subscribe to our newsletter.

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