Doomed to Fail - Ep 34: Love, Lust, and Murder in the Gilded Age: The Riveting Tale of Evelyn Nesbit, Henry K. Thaw, and Stanford White

Episode Date: July 26, 2023

Next up! We are in Manhattan for the ‘only in NY’ story of the murder of Stanford White by jealous husband Henry K. Thaw. Stanford White was a super successful architect and also absolutely a sexual predator. When the former object of his desire, Gibson Girl Evelyn Nesbit, marries a narcissistic billionaire White’s days are numbered. This is also the story of the several Madison Square Gardens, the very American thing of tearing down our buildings to match tastes, and the beginning of the National Register of Historic Places. Photos via the public domain & #midjourneyInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpodEmail: [e-mail] Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In the matter of the people of the state of California, first is Hortonthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Taylor, I can't believe it's been four days already. I'm so good to see you. It's interesting. You haven't changed or moved it at all since we last spoke four days ago. I'm not going to say that I'm not going to be in the same position in like a couple days because I'm here for a week. So I'm probably going to continue to sit on this bed.

There you go. So I think that's normal. Fair enough. Fair enough. So welcome to Doom to Fail, the podcast we cover a historic and true prime story. That is red flag. He has all get out. Today, Taylor is going to be sharing her story with us, which I'm very, very excited.

She is currently in New York drinking a white stripe, red striped. Red striped. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah, drinking a red stripe. But her theme drink is a Manhattan. It is. So yeah, as I said, I'm in New York. I'm actually a little bit above New York City. I'm in Newburgh, New York. So I'm near Hyde Park, like 45 minutes from where the Roosevelt's are. So I'm going to go there in a few days. I'm super excited. I'm going to take photos and let you all know. Last night I was Googling where Lorna Hickok is buried. I'm going to go visit her. So just do that. I'll keep everybody posted. I'm going to put it on Instagram because that is another story that I covered a while ago. But because I'm here in New York, and I lived in New York for 30. 13 years. So I'm excited to be back. And we're going to go to the city later this week as well.

But I'm going to tell a very, very New York story. And this is a story of the murder of the architect Stanford White in 1906. And he was murdered at the theater on top of Madison Square Garden. So it's a dope story. So also want to just kind of put out a warning. There's a lot of sexual assaults and spousal abuse in this story. So it's like it's like a fun only in New York story, but also like there's a lot of bad stuff. So just to let everybody know. So it's like every story that I do, got it. Yeah, you just have a way. My source, I did watch a movie called The Girl in the Red Velvet Swing, starring Joan Collins. Joan Collins, can you picture her? She's old now.

She's 90. She was an American horror story apocalypse. Yeah. But this movie is like from the 50s and she looks the same. It's cute. You can definitely tell that it's still her. She's like 90 years old. Still alive.

But a lot of my sources was just Wikipedia and like stuff that I already knew from like, I remember learning about this, some of the architecture that we'll talk about in college and things like that but um on the plane on the way here i told you i took the red eye and i can't sleep on planes but i watched cocaine bear have you watched it yet no is it good oh my god it's great i like really liked it so but the very beginning of cocaine bear it's it's directed by um elizabeth banks who's so funny i just like no way it's such a good personality i feel but um the very beginning of of cocaine bear it has like a a paragraph about bears so it's like you know if a bear is attacking you you should fight back or

whatever and then underneath it and then it like pauses and then at the bottom it says source Wikipedia and I laughed for like five minutes because I was like this is so funny it's such funny Elizabeth Bank's so it's from Wikipedia I can just like imagine her laughing doing that so I laughed out loud so a lot of this is from Wikipedia because I'm talking about some pretty famous buildings in New York and some pretty tragic things that we did to buildings and I'm going to start with that Cool. So have you been to Madison Square Garden farmers? No.

Have you been to New York City? I've been twice. Okay. I went for the U.S. Open, so really I just went from the downtown area to Arthur Ash. Yeah. Cool. Well, Madison Square Garden, as you probably know, is where the Knicks play. Basketball has played there.

I, because I lived in New York for so long, I saw a bunch of things there. I saw the circus there. I saw Gwen Stefani there. I saw the Nix. I was in terrifying nosebleed seats when I saw them. That's where I saw the New York Liberty and I had floor seats and that was really cool. I graduated from college there. So like we did a graduation at Madison Square Garden, which was fun. It's fine. I'm going to actually talk shit about it later. It's pretty ugly. Penn Station is a train station underneath it. It's like a pretty ugly 60s monstrosity of a building. And the Madison Square Garden that we know today is actually the fourth Madison Square Garden. So I'm going to tell you about all of them. The first one, there was a space that was a railroad station in 1871 in New York City on 26th in Madison Avenue, and it was moved to Grand Central Station. And so that left this building that used to be a train station open, and P.T. Barnum rented it, and he changed it into the great Roman hippodrome, which is fun and, like, ties back to the things because he made it oval and made it into a place where there would be, like, races, and he had his, like, circus shit there. There was a band leader who named it Gilmore's Garden and had flower shows and beauty contests, music concerts. The first, it had walking marathons in the hippodrome part of it. The first

Westminster Kennel Dog Show was there. And I think it's still at Madison Square Garden today. That was in 1877. There was boxing before boxing was legal. So there were exhibitions instead of fights. In 1879, a Vanderbilt named it Madison Square Garden. There were famous bike races in the hippodrome. P.C. Barnum came back with an elephant. It didn't have a roof. So it was like really hot in the summer and really cold in the winter. So it really wasn't going to work as like a building to continue to do things in.

So it's kind of falling apart. So that's the first one. In 1889, a group of like quintessential New York rich guys, J.P. Morgan, Andrew Carnegie, an Aster, you know, bought it and spent half a million $1,000 building a new building in the same spot. So the second Madison Square Garden is where our story takes place. When it was built, it was the city's second tallest building. It had a main hall, which was the largest main hall in the world.

It had permanent seating for about 8,000 people. So it was like a pretty big space. It had a 1,200 seat theater on the roof and the largest restaurant in the city, and that was like the roof garden cabaret. The second MSG also had the 1924 Democratic National Convention, boxing matches, the first indoor football games, more dog shows. It was really a beautiful, like it's like a neo-classical building. At the top of it, there was a statue of the goddess Diana with a bow and arrow. And that was like pretty famous and it's in a museum now. It was never a

financial success. So it was torn down in 1926. And now it's the New York Life building. And that one was made by an architect Cass Gilbert who's pretty famous. So that building is still there in that spot. Wait, hold on. What was torn down then if the building is still there? No, the new building is still there. The New York Life building is still there. Okay, okay, got it. But the second Madison Square Garden is gone. So, like, that building was only there for like 20 years or something when they tore it down. The third Madison Square Garden was built on 8th Avenue between 49th and 50th, which is closer to where it is today. It also had the circus. It had a lot of hockey. It had the Stanley Cup finals were there. There were dog shows. But it was

kind of a shittily built place to have events you couldn't really see from all the seats and I didn't have a lot of ventilation and everybody was obviously smoking all the time so it would get like really smoky and like kind of weird in there but it also had some like really cool events in it the rallies for fDR Cleveland and Hoover so a lot of presidential things in 1937 there was a boycott Nazi Germany rally held there sponsored by the american Jewish Congress and the Jewish Labor Committee the mayor LaGuardia who was the mayor was there so it was like a big event. Two years later, there was a pro-Nazi event there by an organization called the German-American Boond, and that was 20,000 people who were in support of the Third Reich.

What year was that? That was 1939. And you can see pictures of it. There's like Nazi flags in Madison Square Garden, you know, even though it's not the one we have now, it's the third one, but still, you know, and the same place where, like, FGR had things. So it's like a, you could just like have it. There were communist rallies. On March 9th, 1942, so it kind of goes back and forth. It's like anti-Nazi Nazi. In the 1942, there was a mass memorial service for about two million Jews that had been murdered in Europe by the Nazis. It was called the We Will Never Die service, and about 40,000 people attended. So that was like a big thing that happened. There was a rodeo. This is actually

also the place where Marilyn Monroe is saying, happy birthday to JFK, which I'm sure, you know, you've seen that. Oh, yeah. Mr. President. Billy Graham had some things there. So it was actually torn down in 1969. Again, this one was torn down. It was also pretty beautiful to build the new Madison Square Garden. Even though the new Madison Square Garden was not built in the same spot, they just tore it down anyway.

And it was a parking lot for 30 years. Eventually, in 1989, they built one worldwide plaza, which is like another building that's on that spot right now. So the one we know today, the actual Madison Square Garden that you can see today, is where Penn Station used to be. So the original Penn Station was where it used to be. It's on 8th Avenue between 31st and 33rd streets. It's real ugly.

I know you looked it up. I think it's ugly. The Penn Station below it is even uglier. It's like pretty awful. What do you mean the Penn Station below it? The train station is below Madison Square Garden. It's like in the basement. The actual, so wait, Penn Station isn't below it.

The original Penn Station is below it that is abandoned, right? There's a train station underneath Madison Square Garden. Oh, I didn't know that. Okay. I'm learning things. I'm not a New York guy. Like New York is like my least favorite place in the world. I hate going there and I hate being there and it's too busy. And I know that people I know people have feelings about it. I know. I know I'm the only one. I know that I'm unique. I just have no ambition of learning more about it or not learning more about it. I mean, it's certainly the human history of it all. But I just don't, I'm not familiar with like where sensation. That's what I'm telling you. That's what I'm telling you for us. So, okay. So here's the tragedy. And this is I learned in my art history degree. So this is my $100,000 story to tell you is Penn Station used to be there. Penn Station was fucking gorgeous. It's completed in 1910. It was demolished in 1963 to build this to build MSG. It was built originally by McKim, Mead, and White, which is Stanford White's firm. We're going to talk about Stanford White in a minute. It had a beautiful facade. It had huge, like, gates. It had columns and marble. Inside, it was a huge open room. And on the ceilings. were made of glass and there were these turrets made of iron and it was just like absolutely beautiful they wanted to build like a bigger a bigger place and they needed like a new spot for trains so they tore it down and people didn't really believe they were going to do it until they actually

did it in the new york times that new york times editorial board wrote quote until the first blow fell no one was convinced that penn station would really be demolished or that new york would permit this monumental active vandalism against one of the largest and finest landmarks of its age and roman it was taken apart piece by piece some of the statues and columns were thrown into a swamp in new jersey they just threw it away these like beautiful it's beautiful building they just threw it away why do they need to get rid of it in the first place they just wanted to build like something bigger that could like hold more people and make more money and and do all of that so because the trains weren't making as much money um as they used to so they needed to have like the venue as well oh okay you know um you can

still across the street from Madison Square Garden is the post office that still has that same look so you can see what like you can imagine what it used to look like and you can obviously see photos because it wasn't taking down until the 60s. So one good thing that came out of it because they literally just threw it away. It was like beautiful building. Some of the pieces were like dug out of the swamp and like put in museums because that's how like beautiful they were they just threw it all away. But because of this we have the National Register of Historic Places because after that people were like, oh shit. Like we can't just continue to tear things down in America. You know, this is a fourth of this building. So now you can't destroy things,

like some beautiful facades and some buildings are protected. When I was in Dallas a few months ago, like there were some buildings or they're like building modern buildings, but behind an old facade, you know what I mean? Yeah. Which is like, lovely. Keep the art. Update the building. I get it. So they're doing that. That's the story of the Madison Square Gardens and the National Register of Historic Places, which actually is going to save like a ton of buildings, which is great. talking about the second one, the one that has the outdoor theater, because we're going to go back and talk about the murder of Stanford White. That was just like a side quest in the Madison Square Garden.

Love it. So our three characters are Stanford White, Evelyn Nesbitt, and Henry K. Thaw. So Stanford White is an architect and like a highfalutin, New York City dandy guy. He was born on November 9, 1853. You can Google him now. Did you Google him? Stanford White. because the elephant in the room is his mustache and i want you to look at it everyone pull over it's

insane that uh it's a man he looks like ned flanders uh yeah no he uh okay net flanders is a pretty good descriptor um it looks like a broom it's just huge and like very bushy it's uh yeah he definitely can have breakfast for dinner yes exactly exactly So if you look him up, that's like, that's the distraction. In the movie, he does not have that mustache. You can't even make it look at. No. No, it looks. They think you're faking it.

Yeah. Oh, so yeah. It's unbelievable. So Stanford White, he designed Madison Square Garden, the second one. He designed the arch in Washington Square Park, very neoclassical. He wasn't officially trained in architecture, but he toured Europe and made some beautiful things. He made some Gatsby style mansions on Long Island. like it's like the 1900s like that kind of style he was married to a woman named bessie spring

smith she was a socialite and they had one son so he was a notorious like playboy but specifically with young women like two young women like way too young like young teenagers like not age consent young um he had an apartment on 24th street where he would bring women to like these parties and like i say women i mean girls like girls to these parties to get into it there was a secret entrance at the back of an FIO Schwartz. Oh, wow. You know, it's like really attracting young girls. The top floor had a room, and the room was painted like a garden.

So it had like windows, and there were like leaves painted on the wall. And the middle of the room was a red velvet swing that he would like have the girls swing on. He would like push him on the swing. But that's where the name of the movie comes in, the girl in the red velvet swing. It's actually really good. So definitely recommend watching it, but definitely kind of romanticizes him as a person. He had a group of friends called the Union. club and they would do this together they'd essentially get young girls get them drunk drug them

and take advantage of them so definitely like a predator yeah he would like give them money because he was rich so he would like pay for their stuff kind of be their benefactor but like expect sex in return and this is how he meets evelyn nesbit so she's our second character so evelyn was born florence evelyn nesbit on christmas day and either 1884 1885 no one sure in pitts her family was poor and her father died and her mother tried to make ends meet as a seamstress So in the movie, they really stressed her mom was, like, being around chorus girls because of the clothes. But eventually, Evelyn, like, she does get into, like, the theater. And she moves to New York when she's around, like, 14, 15.

So she's, like, a model and a chorus girl, whatever that means. She's sort of the quintessential Gibson girl. Do you know what a Gibson girl is? Is it a flapper? No, it's like before flappers. It's a, there's a man named Charles, Dana Gibson, and he was an artist, and he would draw these women. And it's, like, a hairstyle that, like, I try to do sometimes. I'm going to try to do it.

you're like, pull your hair out. So it's like big and like, you know what I mean? And so like it's like, be like I do this. Beehive, right? Kind of. It's like, it's like a little butt at the top and like your hair is really big. And like it's like a Gibson girl. It's like a 1910s, like a 1900 like kind of like sassy, cute girl look.

Men wanted to take really good care of her. So she's cute. She's sassy. They liked it. She's still really young. You know, it's kind of style that she had. It's kind of implied that her mom wasn't devastated with her being friends with men. you know like they took they painted pictures of her naked when she was like 14 15 you know very young and it was like bringing in money so the mom kind of let it happen and unfortunately you know that's part of the time too it's also like in my family it's implied that my great grandma may have like loan some of her daughters out during the depression it's just like we know what do you do it was a bad time but evelyn was on the cover of vanity fair and cosmo like drawings of her some pictures of her I want you to google her also yeah I did

You did it. So I think she was cute. I know you won't think she's cute because you're picky and you don't have an eye for different time periods. Am I right? Definitely thought she was cute. Did you? Because I feel usually you're like, I like a very specific modern woman. She had no, I mean, she has like a, I don't know how to describe it. She has this like regal elegance look to her that's like also sultry. Nice. All right. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, you can tell she's a model. Yeah. She's obviously a model. Totally. So I'm a lot in Stanford white meat and they have a relationship. relationship, quote unquote. You know what I mean. Like they, you know, they, he like gives her money and buys her things and all of that. He persuades her mom to go out of town and it's like, oh, watch over. Evelyn. Great, thanks. You know, so he takes her to his apartment with a swing. It starts with them kind of like drinking champagne. He drugs her champagne and she wakes up naked in a bed covered in blood because he had raped her and taken her virginity. virginity is a social construct which I think is like somebody to talk about later but it's still bad obviously because they raped her while she was while she was passed out they have a relationship for a while whatever that means you know like in the movie it's actually quite sweet that they like are in love and he's like I love you but I love you but I love my wife I don't know what to do which he very well very well might have said to her you know like unsaid to these women but like I can't leave my wife obviously also because like you're a child but eventually eventually it does fade and he he sees other girls and they kind of stop like whatever that was like i can't say dating whatever he he stops she had a thing with john barrymore of the barrymore's um like the acting family um she meets him at stanford white's house

and um he asks her to marry him and she says no they meet later in 1939 and he dramatically announces that she was a love of his life um which is super cute and she he's very handsome just for the record john barrymore so events eventually evelyn marries a pittsburgh rich guy named henry kathaw and he's our third person in the story. He is crazy. He is just like not together at all. He was born February 12th, 1871 in Pittsburgh. He's very rich.

He is one of 11 children, but he's a weird kid. He would like have temper tantrums and like walk in a weird zigzag pattern. He made everybody really, really uncomfortable. He would talk like a baby to get what he wanted. And he would do that even when he was a grown up, which is gross. yeah um he's he kind of looks like if you look at looking at pictures of him like i can't pin him down he looks just like a weird guy like i don't know he's something special at him it's so hard to tell because like it's just different times you know but i mean he looks like he could be and wrote to perdition

on the bad side yeah he doesn't look like a good guy he doesn't look like a good guy yeah yeah so he he ends up going to Harvard because he's rich and gets into Harvard, you know, but all he does is, like, play poker, but he gets in fights with people all the time. He causes a scene. He would light cigars with $100 bills, you know, just like being an asshole.

He was expelled from Harvard, and it didn't say exactly why, but when he was expelled, they were like, you have to leave in three hours. They get the fuck out of here. So, like, no one liked him. They couldn't even buy his way out of that. After his father died,

he was given an $8,000 a month allowance. Today, that's about $2,000, So he just like had money to like throw away and he did. Every time he did something wrong, his mom would clean it up with money. He traveled to Europe and he got in trouble for whipping a bellboy in London. And he ended up giving that bellboy $5,000 to keep him quiet. He went to like all the brothels. He threw huge parties and he would do things like as a parting gift, you'd get like a diamond necklace.

You know, like he was just like dumb rich and didn't care. yeah but he wants to be a part of society like we've seen before with like a bunch of these dudes and he moves to new york and he tries to get into all these different clubs the metropolitan club the century club the knickerbacher club the players club just like these rich dude clubs even the union league that white was a part of um but he doesn't get in specifically for the union league he didn't get in because he rode a horse up the steps and they were like this is embarrassing and it's behavior unbefitting of a gentleman so we didn't get in. But he's convinced that white is the reason he's not allowed in any of these. And like he might as well, he didn't have anything out for him, but he surely was like, that guy's weird, you know, whatever, but everybody felt that way because he was just weird, like trying to get into things. This is that social hierarchy thing where like being rich isn't enough.

You have to be like well quaffed and all that. Yeah, he just didn't have the personality to like get in, you know, everything else. Yeah. So he, at one point, he was mean to a chorus girl and he has a party and the chorus girl gets all the women who are supposed to go to the party to go to Stanford White's apartment instead. So he's just like, I hate that fucking guy. I just like hate Stanford White so much. He's also obviously on drugs this whole time. He's doing speedballs. He's drunk all the time, like losing his mind. He meets Evelyn at one of these parties and he's obsessed with her. He starts like giving her compliments and gifts and being like why isn't this enough like why won't you marry me she keeps turning him down you know obviously but he just like can't figure out why she doesn't like him he takes her she gets sick she has an an epidectomy and he takes care takes care of her during this so he's like you owe me you know right and he takes her to um to europe and he and like sanford white already told her she was like don't he was like don't hang out with this guy he's he's no

good. You know, but he kind of sweeps in when she needs him. He takes her to Europe and he presses her to tell her about what happened with her and Stanford White. So no matter how it happened, he continues to be like, he drugged you and raped you. He did these things to you. And she's like, he did. And she like tells him what happened, but he makes her tell him over and over again. He, like, is obsessed with this, like, idea of this, like, beautiful virginity and obsessed with the fact that Stanford White did this to her. And, He, like, makes her talk about it all the time, like, relive the trauma over and over again. He can't stop thinking about it.

He, it takes her all over Europe to, like, these, like, virgin martyrdom spots to where Jordan of Arc was born. And he signs a guest book and said, John of Arc would not have been a virgin if Stanford White had been around. Jeez. Wow. He is over the top. Yeah.

So he's just, like, going nuts. He gets her mom to leave and he keeps trying to get her to marry him. And in the movie, where they have romanticized a lot of this, because it's, like, a 50s movie, he takes her at the top of a oh the movie has a really great fake backgrounds but he goes to the top of like a mountain in like the Alps and he like asked her and he's like is this about white all these things

he slaps her but he's like I love you just like very abusive and that's like the least of it because in real life he took her to a castle and he locked her in a tower essentially for two weeks where he beat and raped her just like going crazy and like screaming about Sanford White he's just like terrible

so she's being super abused by this guy and Um, eventually at one point, like, he, Stanford White, like, tries to get her away from him and sends her to a boarding school. That's how young she is also during all of this. She's still really young. Um, so she's definitely being abused and they end up getting married in 1905. So Henry Thaw and Evelyn and as we get married, he, like, picked out her dress, like, you know, all the things. Um, he, in the movie, one of his goons says to his mom, well, now your daughter has $40 million.

And the mom says he couldn't have me for $41 million. And, you know, like, because I'm sure people were like, oh, gosh. Yeah. You know? It is weird how Stanford White is starting to flip into the good guy of the story. I know. It is weird because he does feel like the good guy, even though he's a bad guy. But in this case, it's like two bad options.

So he continues to be obsessed with Stanford White. He's worth, like I said, $40 million, which is about $1.5 billion today. super rich. So on June 25th, 1906, en route to Europe, so they live in Pittsburgh, they're going to take a ship to Europe. They stop in New York with two goons and the four of them go to the theater at Madison Square Garden. So it's open outdoors and Stanford White is there. So everyone's probably a little nervous because they know that like those two are together and they don't get along. Thaw is kind of going crazy, walking back and forth, doesn't know what to do. They try to leave. Eventually during the finale of the show, show, he goes up to him and yells, you ruined my wife and shoots him three times from two feet away. He dies instantly. Wow. People go crazy. It's the middle of the show, you know, so people start screaming and like running, like to get out of the theater. He might have said you ruined my life, but people heard him say, you ruin my wife. Either way, he like is just obsessed with the fact that he had done this to Evelyn. So he, um, so afterwards, Evelyn, says,

what did you do? And he said, I saved your life. um who knows what he means by that i kind of feel like he meant that he might have killed her eventually you know he sounds like a unhinged maniac he is an unhinged maniac yep yeah so he's put on trial um during the trial all this stuff comes out about stanford white because no one knew like his friends knew you know but no one knew like the things that he had done so like people at first they were like very sympathetic to be the fact that like oh he just got killed you know but that they start hearing these stories of the things that he had done one of the reporters at the trial was mark twain yeah and he said quote um everyone knew now that white eagerly and diligently and ravenously and remorselessly

was hunting young girls to their destruction these facts have been well known in new york for many years but they've never been openly proclaimed until now on the witness stand and the hearing of a courtroom crowded with men the girl evelyn has been told in a minute in detail the history of white's pursuit of her even down to the particulars of his atrocious victory atrocious victory a victory whose particulars might well be said to be unprintable so now they know that he was doing all these things but doesn't make it thaw less crazy you know yes yes um so the jury is deadlocked to have a second trial um he ends up being locked up for life in an insane asylum in fishkill new york the madawan state hospital for the criminally insane which i am five miles from right now it's a really close to right now um he escaped at one point went to Canada he's still like getting money he's still rich you know like he eventually does get out and he they remained married for a while actually um evelyn got pregnant in 1910 she said it was during like a conjugal visit with him but they get divorced in 1915 um he gets out and lives to be 76 he just like lives as like a rich kind of eccentric weird guy

um heavy having after having done this um she evelyn marries a dance partner jack cliff They travel around Europe. She's kind of like a semi-successful chorus girl, attraction, burlesque girl for the rest of her life. Eventually she moves to Los Angeles. She's an advisor on the movie, the girl in the Red Vald that swing, which must have been really traumatizing to, like, you know, be there and like watch it happen again. She has a stroke in the middle of filming. At the age of 82, she dies a year later. And Evelyn Nesbitt is buried in the Holy Cross Cemetery in Culver City.

Oh, wow. in L.A. Um, they had a, their kid Russell, uh, wow, he lived till 1984. Yeah, he was a selling film actor too. Um, so wait, this guy got out of jail after killing somebody. Man, money helps a lot. Money helps so much. Yeah.

Guys, if you're poor, stop, stop it. Like, go get money. Get money. Get money and then commit crimes. And then commit more crimes. And then commit more crimes. You can get your money in a policy scheme, then commit crimes. I have one more thing.

There's a New York Times article written in 2007 called The Girl, the Swing, and a row house in ruins. Stanford White's apartment, the building it was in, was torn down in 2007. It was falling apart. It had not been maintained. And the reporter was watching it get torn down. And a man who lived on the street for 20 years, he said, He had heard that an architect had lived there, but he goes, I didn't think about it. I don't care much about pedophiles.

It was just another old New York building. There were rats on the bottom and pigeons on the top. Wow. So building turned down. And then also one more thing, there's a cute YouTube video of Evelyn singing in like the 1930s about how she doesn't have a man and she's really happy. And you just feel real happy for her. Yeah, for her. Because you're like, yeah, no, men were shit to you, dude.

Yeah, she had a rough go, but I love the Mark Twain piece. It's like history is so amazing. it all just kind of overlap somehow i know i love it and like i feel like we've talked about pt barnum before we know what a hippodrome is like all the things that like it all goes full circle full circle we know everything so yeah sweet that's very cool uh i do like so the historical part of it is especially with a place like new york that is so historical and has so many stories in it is all really really fascinating and now i know you know what's funny is i thought msg was actually a square no it's like a weird circle yeah i mean i looked up the picture while you were talking but

for some reason i've always seen it like it's like a black box square like on one point mm-hmm is it a barclay center maybe is that what i'm thinking of is that the one in brooklyn i don't know what does barclay look like that is in brooklyn i don't know anything about new york no that's not it either you know what take you to new york some time fars well let's do let's let's have a tour stop in new york city i'll be real fine i mean i typically go to dc like at least once every three months give or take and i think it's only a two our train right to new york from there yeah it's not bad so maybe maybe that should be the next trip you may end up in penn station and you can see how ugly it is

there you go there you well taylor thank you for sharing especially a new york story while you're in new york um hopefully you get to enjoy that enjoy hide park enjoy seeing the braves of the Roosevelt's oh my god i'm so excited i'm gonna try to i'll try to drive by this insane and saw them as well it's still there um i think it's still called the place for the criminally insane which is cool wait it's still operational i think so what's it called um the um massapit madawan madawan state hospital for the criminally insane and when when the thaw escaped he like walked out because he's rich you know what i mean Maybe it is, it's a medium security prison.

No, it says was founded, closed in 1977. Well, what is it? Has six Google reviews. How does something that closed? Such a fun place to host parties, my six-year-olds never have more fun. That makes no sense. Okay.

Yeah, it's part of the official correctional facility now. Yeah, it's pretty. Terrifying. Absolutely terrifying. Yeah. All the abandoned insane asylums. Love it. Who doesn't?

Who doesn't? Sweet. Well, I'm just sorry. I had to have one more mail. Yes. Listener mail. Kiara, who's our first person who ever emailed us, emailed back. And she was also in New York recently.

And she was down at one trade center. And she was taking photos. and she saw this couple and this couple was like really really good looking like the girl was dressed in like a 1940s dress and the man was dressed um in like a traditional Korean outfit and she's like oh it looked so good she took a picture of them from afar and then she like went up to them and she was like you guys look so good I just took this picture of you like by the sunset can I send it to you and she was like oh totally she took it but the woman who she took a picture of was um Tiley ryan's cousin I don't know that is she's the daughter that Lori Valo killed oh my god i know it's that crazy that's she just like happened to see this like woman who's like oh she looks so pretty i take a picture and it happened to be tiley ryan's cousin so how did she how did she know she she like got her instagram to give her the picture that she took of her and then it was like on her instagram was like oh my justice for justice for tiley blah blah blah that's wild that's so wild wow again it all it all comes together i know it's very

exciting if you have listened listen to our doomsday um podcast episode about the uh the battle murders that's our first was our first episode yeah yeah i think it was wow we come a long way taylor we're so close to being rich so excited to take you to new york city we're we are we are maybe like five episodes away from being able to kill somebody and walk walk away from it yeah that level's rich sweet we'll have fun taylor everybody Thank you. Please write to us at Duma Network Pod. We will see you in a week.

Cool. Thanks, friends. Oh, yeah. Bye.