Doomed to Fail - Ep 40: The Indian Jeffrey Dahmer: The tale of Surinder Koli

Episode Date: August 16, 2023

We’re going back to India for the horrible, horrible story of the Nithari serial murders - Young girls and sex workers went missing in Delhi in 2006, their bodies found tossed into the sewer like garbage. It’s horrible. Businessman Moninder Singh and his servant Surinder Koli were charged with the murders and sentenced to death. It’s both very clear who did it and a mystery.Photos via the India Times & DNA India - they are haunting. (I’m not doing any AI for this - it’s just not something that makes sense!)Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail]  Join our Founders Club on Patreon to get ad-free episodes for life! patreon.com/DoomedtoFailPodWe would love to hear from you! Please follow along! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: [e-mail] 

In a matter of the people of the state of California, first is Hortonthal James Simpson, case number B.A.019. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country. Hello, happy Wednesday. Happy Wednesday. I am currently still drinking my dirty chai latte because I wanted it extra dirty. So I just left it outside without being in a container until it got moldy. and now I'm drinking that.

So exciting time. That's disgusting. Yeah. I hate that for you. Well, we covered William the Conqueror last week, this week. And today we're going to go over to the true crime side of the equation in our doomed to fail relationship. And like I mentioned last week, we are going to India. So it's going to be exciting.

Are you excited? Yeah, when you say last week, you mean two days ago. I feel like you need a calendar or something to help you understand. see on space and time. So I might think about that. What is it? Is it a birthday soon? Maybe I'll think about that for your birthday.

Maybe a wall calendar. Is it today? When's your birthday? Taylor. In two weeks, I turned 39 years old. It's okay. I'm 41 and I'll be older than you. Oh my God.

Don't try to out crisis me. I'm older than you. I know, but your life is put together. You're like married. You have kids, your mom. You have activities. You do things. It's like me.

It's like 39 and still like a 25 year old. So that's not good. You'll be fine. hopefully but yes two weeks tell what day is it your birthday 20 August 27 okay I have a wall calendar I'm going to write that on my wall calendar thank you birthday okay uh so we've already covered India sort of and we're kind of going back to the same spot that we were at last time which was the Taj Wahal which you covered in our famous episode bury your wife your dead wife in a Tajwa hall and not a blue barrel oh my gosh also wait I've tried something else in the past a couple weeks. I've been in upstate New York and I've been in Big Bear and in both those places

a ton of people have front yard wells and since you told me that story of that lady who buried her husband in a front yard well I always think there's a dead person in that. I'll just check might as well go check. Right, not wrong. It's that or the girlfriend will ring. Somebody's come out of that thing. So like I said, today we'll cross the pond over to

India and I'm going to cover a story that I heard about years and years ago and remember thinking it was absolutely insane and that it wasn't popular like it was a it was a crazy story that nobody seems to know about nobody's heard it was basically the indian version of like geoffrey dammer except probably wait not probably like actually worse because the victim count was higher and the victim type was more vulnerable than the victim type in jeffrey damer what yeah but which was like which being anything like oh it's kind of wild that this wasn't covered and so i started looking into it and i started researching

And it was like, oh, I totally understand why we don't cover like other cultures because the translation is hard to totally understand. And this was a pain in the ass researching this thing. And trust me, there's a lot of constant on it if you understand Bengali. But like if you don't, then in your meat, then you're going to have a hard time trying to figure all this stuff out. But the bigger part of it is that some of these dynamics and the different cultural dynamics are involved. make it hard to comprehend how things like this could happen so i broke this story down in a very different way that it's broken down anywhere else because i think that it's important to understand like the how part of this happening because it kind of sets up the chronology events so

going into the how part i'm going to start with the cast system of india so wow yep okay like i keep saying ever since i mean i travel abroad enough to feel like i can speak with someone authority on this, everyone who thinks that America is like the worst, most racist place on earth, like, clearly needs to, like, leave the country. Actually, like, go be a minority in a different country and see how they actually treat others. Because as bad as it is here, guarantee you it can be a lot worse. And living in India is up there. So, so generally speaking, when you are, like, a minority in a country, like, the sense of being otherwise is pretty obvious. Like, you feel you probably shouldn't speak up you feel like you're probably like a little bit

subjugated to think you know like you just feel like a same class citizen like you probably shouldn't be yourself all the time and all that good stuff horrible stuff but in india that is like culturally religiously and legally practiced behavior with with the caste system so breaking that system down a little bit so there's two components that are worth pointing out here and again there's a point to this i'm not just rambling on for the sake and rambling on like there's a re this all explains how the crimes i'm about to discuss ended up happening so first off the castism in india is very very old and it's very very complicated like i realized partially why i wanted to push back our start time for doing this episode was because

i was going down this crazy rabbit hole of like the castism in india and like realized i was like i haven't written the out like the crimes themselves because it just you go it can take forever to figure this shit out so if you're really knowledgeable about this stuff so forgive me for doing broad brush strokes here but i'm focusing on two pieces of it one is called varna which means the type of categories that the casts and breaks down into and there are four official breakdowns of this cast one is the brahmins those are kind of top of the line that's the cast that you really want to be and those are like the priests their spiritual leaders and things like that the second rung down from that is going to be the and i'm going to

butcher this kishhtaris who are the rulers warriors and of that kind of ruling class then you have the vishyas who are the artists farmers and merchants then you have the shudras who are basically manual labor folks then there's a fifth class that's actually not a formalized class within varna which is called dahlets and these are the people that are commonly known as untouchables So these are the folks that do the stuff that nobody wants to do, their grave diggers, they're like, you know, they, it's self-examatory. I need to go into more detail. But that's the category of people that we're discussing today is going to be the Dullets. And that's the explanation for why this ends up happening.

The second overarching theme of the cast system worth covering is the concept of Jati, which translates to directly freelancing and hinged to birth. And Jati is more of a loose social hierarchy that isn't different. in terms of where people fall in the caste system by virtue of their birth. So being an Indian warrior in 500 AD obviously put you in the higher cast, but like, no, that's not really a, it's not like a, nobody's doing that. So they have to like redefine and recategorize things and Jati was a way of doing that. So now there's like thousands and thousands of substrata of cast that are, again, very loosely defined that people get fall into.

But the key factor of Varna is the Jati part of it, which is like you, it is defined by birth. It is an immutable characteristic. Right. You can't work your way out of it. Exactly. Exactly. And look, now I've read a lot of stuff. This stuff is like kind of controversial.

Like Indian scholars want to pretend like it's not really a thing and like we're not that tribal and that like old world about it. But the way I saw it, like the comparison. I made, it was like, look, and like, from time and memorial, people were somewhat aware that cops were killing minorities, but you just don't want to have a microscope on it, right? Like, people don't want to look at that and say, that is actually our culture, but like, it is our culture. And now we can put a figure on it and try and diagnose it. And that's why I think my reading of the cast in India was also that. It was like, we don't want to believe this is real, but it is real. Sorry, it is what it is. So let's get into, again, if you read about the story, it will never be broken down this way,

but I had no way of breaking this down in a way that wasn't super fucking confusing, except for the way that I'm doing it right now. So the other considerations here are the main characters of the story. And I'm going to start with the main character of where this took place. Okay. So the events of the story take place in Udra Pradesh, which is a state in India. I'm going to call it UP, so I'm cool like that. UP is home to the Taj Mahal, and I'm going to briefly bring up a statistic, again, that will help further explain this story.

So UP falls behind the rest of India on two very important statistics. One is the sex ratio, which is dramatically lower for females than it is to males. So there's a lot more men than there are women. And this, again, this is like research, like I'm not being a shithead here. The reason for this is people just don't want girls. And because of that, the female infanticide in sex selective abortions are higher in UP than other parts of the country, although it's higher in the country anyways outside of like other countries. So there's that piece of it. And also, UP has the highest number of people living under the poverty line of any other state in the country.

So a lot of poor people, a lot of untouchables, a lot of like really like casual feelings about like little girls. rolls dying basically yeah kind of summarizing like that so the city so the city where this ends up taking place is really close to deli it's about 60 miles from deli so it's a pretty popular settling spot from migrants we're just looking for work migrants are of the cast that are considered untouchable in india they'll be one of them so okay character number two i'm counting the town as a character because there's so much trick going on with it i get your saying Character number two. This guy's name is Cylinder Coley. So the details of Cylinder's life were crazy hard to find and piece together. And you'll understand why, as I described, the little tidbits of information that I was able to glean it from his life. He was born in a tiny village of 60 people in the foothills to the Himalayan Mountains. We have no clue what his birthday is. But surprise, surprise, spoiler alert. He gets arrested. And when he gets arrested, you look at the pictures of him. If you're trying to age him, you'd probably guess he was probably born. sometime in the 1970s, maybe late 1960s.

Okay. That's all we really know. He was born to tribal people. And again, he was of the classification known as untouchables, the Dalet. And he worked with his father as an apprentice butcher. And initially, you think butcher, that's not that bad of a job. Like, I would love to be a butcher. Like, that sounds like a great job.

But then you realize. That was not my first thought. Oh, okay. my head went says a lot more about me than anybody else but okay i mean it's a good job for sure my first thought isn't oh i'd love to be butcher but i mean it's it's just not a horribly horrible like you know digging graves for a living it's one of those better than these here's here's why it's bad though in this context most of india is vegetarian that's what i was thinking too because you definitely can't eat cows yeah so most of india's vegetarian including cilendar his family

and his village so like you're doing the thing that you hate the most in this world which is like just sawing up skulls and it's just not good that's weird that's interesting yeah when cilindar was 13 he left with his brother-in-law which i have no idea how that conversation came about um but somehow it was him and his brother-in-law brother-in-law he was 13 years old and they moved to deli to try and find work okay and again guys see by the context he's 13 years old he was born in the village of 60 people and he's going to deli which like if you see pictures of deli like it looks like new york city like it is like a huge bustling town like it's like not like it is the exact opposite of a 60 person village so given his background with butchery i guess that made

him somewhat qualified to be a cook for rich families he would do that you would do like manual labor jobs and so on and so forth again he was just an untouchable he was doing untouchable shit whatever you want to call that so this in this piece I threw it in because like again there's like not many facts about his life but it's just worth knowing like what kind of life he was living he didn't get married at 30 to a woman from his village and he would literally go back like once or twice a year to see her like that's it like her job was like till the land take care of the land while he goes and does be a labor task and sends money back.

So horrible life, horrible, like, shitty, shitty life that I could never have had a living. Eventually, he would work as a servant for our next main character. This guy's name is Munindar Pandhar. Nailed it. Nailed it. Again, I can find very little.

And I'll explain why I can find very little about this stuff in here in a moment. But I can find very little about this guy in his background. He's only described as a successful businessman or a well-educated industrialists. Like, that's basically what it is. It's like that old thing I used to tell you, Taylor, how I'm like, I'm like, I have a filing cabinet,

so I'm a successful businessman. Like, it was like one of those things. Exactly, I have a briefcase. Like, but they're not being ironic. They are actually referring to successful business man. He was older, obviously. Like, again, like, if I was trying to date him based on his arrest photos, I would say like in early 2000s,

He was probably in his late 50s, early 60s. And he lived in a part of this city that looked like the house was kind of like a three-story compound. If you look at pictures, like, again, like, I'm not trying to like be a shithead about this. Like, you think about like a rich cool, like a rich guy living in the city at a cool place. This is not what you picture. Like this is like plopped down in the center of one of the most populous parts of the entire world. There's just people everywhere, there's shit everywhere. Like it looks like hell on earth, but like apparently this guy was living large.

So if you want to look up images of him, he seems to be doing it right. The important part of that is this three-story house that is like a compound. First of all of it's like completely gated off on all sides. And it backs up to a drainage ditch that runs to the entire district. Wow. So in 2004, Menendar hired Solendar to be his house servant. it. So first I want to highlight the doom to fail part. Again, looking at Solendar as an uneducated, untouched wall from a tiny village living in a giant populous town. And then

Lundar as a rich older businessman who's like, again, we don't know where he stands in the caste system because people don't like to talk about it. But obviously he was high up. Like he wasn't, he wasn't a nobody. So we have this power dynamic that is very disparate. And by all accounts people who met cylindar were like how you spell that can you help me google him yeah yeah it's s o l i n d-r and then his last name is k-o-l-i coli okay and you look at pictures of him and you're like this he just looks like a fucking idiot he looks like a nobody he looks like nothing right like he just like a stupid little farm kid like that was a general sentiment in town about him but they also

to him is like an untouchable so they probably treated him like shit too so anyways we have this huge power dynamic between him and mon and dar and i don't have an opinion i'm just saying right now at the very end i'm going to throw ideas out there and then you can throw your opinions at me but like i don't have an opinion right now i'm saying this is the fact as i see them so let's go through what happened then we can kind of dissect all of it so providing a chronology chronological timeline of the events is hard What we know is that children in the area would go missing. The children were usually girls.

The children and their parents belonged to the untouchable cast. The parents would report this to the police who didn't do anything because all the reasons I just named above, they were girls, they were untouchable, so who cares. And because of this, there's like literally no documentation around like what I was trying to do because the death count's huge. We'll talk about the death count. And it all happened in a very short period of time. I was like, I was trying to do a count of like this shot reported missing on. this date on this date this day this day and then all of a sudden this happened you can't find it because nothing was written down so parents would report this the police and they wouldn't do

anything about it right all we all we really know is that in December of 2006 two parents whose kids had gone missing went to the police and told them that we know where the bodies of some kids kids are who have gone missing their assumption was that the bodies of some people must be in this water tower I don't know how they reached that inclusion needles are sketchy there all we know is that those parents had also lost missing children so this water tower was right next to menendar's house the police ignored this and so the two groups of parents went up to the water tank and somehow ended up finding three decomposing bodies in this tank oh does it remind you anything yes i mean what's her name elisa elisa lamb yeah so by this point these families had

basically learned that the police don't care about them or they're kids and even worse they thought that they were probably getting paid off to intentionally not investigate this so they did the only logical they could they they called the guy named satish mishra who was the former president of an association in india that looks after the well-being of residence and situations where the government isn't doing it and this guy was like a this guy was up there like he had the power the weight like i i forgot i read a lot about it he ended up an MP. He was a big deal. And so people paid attention when he, he seemed to give a shit if a maid is complaining about a dead kid. But then this guy shows up and he's like this big

shot. And now it's like, oh, we got to pay attention now. Well, that's good. So what's this guy? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it'll be better if it happened. They just cared about them. But yeah. Yeah. So by this point, all we know is there's three bodies right next to this guy's house. A very cursory examination into the drains behind Menendar's house would uncover garbage bags containing more body parts. Oh, my God. In total, 19 bodies were found. So the theory is, there is basically, I mean, if we found 13, there's got to be more than that. And the police estimate was there's probably 31 bodies in total, but they don't know.

They don't know for sure. 19 is what they settled on. there was only one adult victim a called girl named paiel and at least 11 female children and possibly seven boys so they think there was probably more girls than than 11 so that's we're just making assessments here based on autopsies wow the one adult victim paelle was the reason why sillendar and munendar were initially arrested again details are kind of sketchy for for how this came about but it was basically people saying that the last place they saw Payel enter alive was Munendar's house.

So the police arrested them in connection with her disappearance. And during interrogation, Mildar confessed to her murder. So this is when a large scale search of Munindar's home starts happening. And that's when they start finding more bodies in the front yard, bodies in the backyard.

And they're like, this all has to be connected. Like there's bodies in the drainage dish. There's bodies in the water tower. There's bodies in the ground. Somehow, they pieced it together, these guys were probably involved. Right. And sometimes, you know, like, oh, how'd that get there? Yeah, yeah.

I don't know, it's so crazy. It's a misplaced this femur bone. It's worth noting that by now the entire country was kind of aware of what was going on. For nearly, think about this, so for nearly two years, children were being reported missing, all of whom lived in the same neighborhood, at least 18 that we know of, and the police did nothing, not even document this. So the federal agencies in the country came down and we're like, oh, we got to take over this investigation. I mean, that I just also just want to point out that happens constantly in America as well.

Okay. There is a constant of the less dead here, which like is like basically prostitutes more or less. Is that fair to say? Yeah, like sex workers and, uh, indigenous people, you know, like there's a whole big thing, especially in Canada where like indigenous women go missing constantly and they don't do anything. for them so there's a whole bunch of yeah totally so we we kind of have like almost like an intrinsic caste system but i feel like if you were to report stuff to the police they would at least look into it in some cases it's it's not perfect it's not perfect it's not perfect yeah so the federal investigation into this crime started happening and it kind of sounded like something

out of 1800. So they used truth serum, for example. Whoa. Yeah. They made these guys draw pictures for psychologists, which is like, I'll get to that here in a moment. They use brain mapping, which looks to the shape of the brain and like its attachment to the spinal column to assess someone's mental state. Like it was like... That can't be true. It sounds like eugenics, right? Yeah. Basically, that's kind of what it was. Well, so brain mapping is is actually a legitimate science, but like not the way they were using it. Because, like, in brain mapping, they'll tell you, like, your frontal cortex. Like, that's where your inhibitions are.

You know, like, there's a science behind it, but not like this. Like, this was trying to get, like, motivations. And it's like, that's all neural synapses. Like, there's, the shape of his brain didn't determine, like, whether you're going to kill these kids or not. Right. Ultimately, Scylinder confessed. And he says that he had committed all these crimes on his own. And what he would do is he'd bring these kids to the house, who would strangle them, rape them.

Cut them into pieces in his private bathroom, sometimes eat the flesh, but otherwise just dismember it and throw the corpses away or bury them. That was Slyndar's confession. He absolved Mendenar completely, which at that time, the investigative body called CBI, which I didn't write down so I don't remember what it stands for. They believed him. They're like, yep, Mondonar didn't do this. Scylindar says he did it. It must be him who did it. To me, I was like, there's probably some way of corruption here.

given everything else we just discussed and like you can't if someone I lived with was doing this you would know well we're going to discuss that that's there's a whole bullet point section here that we're going to get to here a minute so at trial they were both found guilty and given a death sentence several months later a high court overturned malindar's guilty verdict and fully acquitted him of the murder so in India in this case I mean I guess same case here but it's like a separate trial for each murderer so like you can get a death sentence for one you can get life for the other so on and so forth so in this case they were tried for one munendar had his conviction overturned he was fully acquitted so that's where that's where we're at now and at the same time uh cylindar is still on death row way to beat sentence until september 2017 at that time cylinder's death sentence was commuted to life in prison but then both he and monendar were tried for another murder and they were against sentence to death and yeah that's kind of where things are right now they keep appealing

they keep racking up more death sentences and they are probably going to keep racket on more death sentences it's interesting though that selander as of like i think it was 2018 2019 has come out and said no i was just saying that he wasn't involved he was totally involved in all this so he's reversed his position on this and for the families eight of the parents whose kids were reported missing and killed they were given the equivalent by the government of 14,465 and that's that was kind of a score because the other families only got two thousand four ten dollars oh god yeah so since the trial again he came out and started talking about how monendara was he was a patsy this other guy was involved and here are some details this is the

bullet point section where i was like i don't know we can discuss this because i don't know how i feel about it? Here's the ball of points. First off, Monendar was away a lot of the time. So he had a family and he had homes in other parts of India and he would travel both there and elsewhere for work regularly, leading Solendar at home alone. There were no other servants. It was literally just him living at the house alone for long stretches of time. So to your earlier point of somebody noticing it, maybe not. I don't know. The other thing is Monendar, this was his party house. So he was super under drugs, prostitutes, loud music, late night parties. And that's what he would use this house for.

So there was always like women coming in and out of the house and all kinds of shenanigans going on. It was insinuated that Scylinder, given the cast that he was in, couldn't really participate in like the fun parts of this, you know? And so he would see Muna Dar doing all these things and having all these women over and he couldn't do it. And so part of the assessor was maybe he was just praying on kids because that's like the only outlet he could have as his cast, essentially. People in the area, I also mentioned this before. So people in the area also kind of intimated that Solendor was kind of an idiot and couldn't really do this on his own. But then you look at the fact that like the police just weren't doing anything anyways. And like, couldn't he?

You could have done it on the job. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the only, the only thing that makes me. Where I feel like you couldn't do it on your own is all the cleanup. Even though I know he was just like dumping them out in the yard or whatever, but I just feel like there'd be like remnants of stuff. Yeah, yeah.

Well, they, the, so one thing that this is incredible. It's a complete houseboards. They were talking about how he would take the heads and just like basically just throw them, he had a balcony, you just throw them over the balcony into the drainage ditch. Like it was just willy-nilly, like just out in the open. Yeah. So we're not very smart. Not very smart, not at all.

And there's a documentary on the BBC I watch called Slumdog, Cannibal. And I know, I don't know if that's racially insensitive or not, but whatever, that's what it's called. I think it's just insensitive. Yeah. I don't know if it's, for, I'm, yeah, for everyone. Yeah, I didn't create it, so don't come at me. Don't commit me. And one of the psychologists who actually ended up doing an interview and examined Scylund

and munendar asked them to each draw a picture of a person and she seemed to think it was like pretty damning evidence that when she asked sullandar to draw it he drew like a female child and then when she she asked monondar to draw a person he drew like an adult woman and so she was like it's weird that he drew a little girl like and all we we found these little she was saying like this was in his head it's imprinted in his brain like that's what's he wants to identify with and he so he probably did it on his own basically that was a gist of it so uh that's where we are right now so these guys are both both currently incarcerated and we're awaiting more death sentences india does this pretty quick though so

i know i'm surprised that it's taken this long because they usually just like get it over with yeah so he was supposed to originally be executed in 2012 the trial ended on the first round of charges in 2000 like late 2009 is when those that trial ended and then 2012 September was when he was supposed to be executed it they just have an appeal process like the thing with India is like again because they're Hindu like death is like a pretty bad thing you know like it's like they're they're not as death happy as we are here in the US and so killing someone is like a much bigger deal than it is here and so that's why they think you know it's just going to keep getting appealed essentially realistically

he's probably just going to have it commuted to life in Senate life in prison but that's where they currently are wow yeah and it's worth watching that slumdog cannibal documentary because it's on YouTube by the BBC because you get a sense of how grotesque and violent these murders were like there was so much talk about eating these kids and about like over the top like that's why I said it's basically Indian Jeffrey Dahmer, except on a much broader scale. If I'm not mistaken, Damar killed 12, right? I don't remember, but I think, feel like you would know. Yeah, I think it was 12. At this pace, they were at 19, and the estimate is like there's probably a lot more than that. It's like more

grotesque, but the problem is you can't go into the details. Like, the guy's born in the Himalayan Mountains. Like, you can't analyze his childhood. You can't analyze. Like, that's the fun of this true crime stuff. It's like, how did you become this monster? In this case, i think that's why stories like this don't catch on it's like a you got to totally understand what the cultural dynamics are and then b there's no records of anything yeah how would you even dig into it that's true i couldn't even figure out what monendor did to make money they called them an industrialist like that's it like yeah what does that mean literally my joke about having a filing cabinet that's how they describe this guy like that reminds me that's like in uh

is how to succeed in business with michael j fox where they're just like i don't have the files like we have the files like we have the files in my briefcase like okay what does that mean buy sell buy sell is like yeah exactly so that's my story for today um just uh you know like if you live somewhere where the cops don't pay attention to the less dead you know you find someone they do care about like a future MP Yeah, God, that's so sad. Those poor, poor babies. And the parents, because like, yeah.

Because there, like, it was common, like, you know, it felt very, like, old-timey, where, like, you, a husband and a wife end up having, like, six kids because they have to start working on a family business, like, immediately. Otherwise, we all start with them, you know? You think, like, oh, they can't possibly care about our kids the way we care about our kids. When you look at them, like, when they're, like, showing, like, talk about this and you're like no like yeah they're good workers but also they're their children like yeah and i feel like yes far as they still love their children yes no i feel like that's you can be kind of casual about all like kids that died in infancy in in the past or in these places

but no i'm sure it's terrible yeah for any child to lose any child anytime um well that's incredibly sad yeah yeah bad people are everywhere and no clue if these guys were actually in cahoots together but i do think it's a doomed to fail relationship if you are incredibly poor uneducated and a complete outcast in society in a very rich successful business man tells you come live with me and just slaughter these little children for me just don't do it just don't i know i'm going back and forth and now i'm like well you're right how would he like know how to do a bunch of this stuff but also he was a butcher like you said exactly exactly i don't know So maybe he always wanted to do this, but like, why would he do it?

Like, what was the instigating thing? I mean, at most, do it once or twice. Get out of your system and then move on with your life. Like, you don't have to do it 19 times. And really quickly, too, right? It wasn't like 19 times over 30 years. No, it was like not even two years. Yeah.

It's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. He was bad. He was a bad dude. So, uh, well, they're both bad. They're both bad, no matter what. Presumably, no matter what.

Yeah. Deal. Allegedly. Allegedly. Yeah. Wow. It's a lot. So yeah, that was an uplifting story.

And then I think next week is going to be an equally heartwarming story that y'all are very much hopefully accustomed to. Our usual. I appreciate that. It's nice to leave feeling warm and fuzzy. There you go. There you go. So that's our stories for today. Taylor, is there anything you want to sign off with before we cut this out?

Just another continual plea. please give us five stars on Apple Podcasts, Spotify. You can rate us on the app on your phone, but not on the computer. And then also just follow us everywhere. Please share if you have a friend who likes podcasts at all. Tell them about ours. Let us know we'd like to hear. We'd love to hear from you.

We're at DIMTAFLPOT at Gmail. So let us know if you have any thing that you want to talk about. We'll also take cash. If you wanted to write a check out to us personally, we'll also take that. Yeah, absolutely. So we have no shame. Yeah, no, that'd be great. Cool.

All right. Thanks, Taylor. I'm going to go ahead and cut it off. And there we.