Door Bumper Clear - 276 - Phoenix Championship & Jamie McMurray: It Wasn't Close

Episode Date: November 7, 2022

The NASCAR season has ended, and Door Bumper Clear breaks down championship race weekend on its Season 7 finale episode. Brett Griffin, T.J. Majors and Freddie Kraft are joined by former NASCAR Cup Series driver and FOX Sports analyst Jamie McMurray to discuss what his life is like now, and reflect on making his first Cup start filling in for Stirling Marlin, what it was like racing for Chip Ganassi Racing vs Roush Racing, and his reaction to Trackhouse Racing buying out Ganassi.Beginning in Spot On, Spot Off, the table discusses Phoenix Raceway’s quality of racing and if it deserves to host the championship race. They explain why other tracks could offer a better on-track product and offer an idea to change when each series has its final race.Ross Chastain and Chase Elliott mafr contact on a restart that spunElliott into the inside wall with 100 laps to go. The guys debate if Chastain's move was too aggressive and why Elliott didn’t give more insight in his post-race interview. Plus, they talk about NASCAR needing to police drivers cutting the dogleg too early on restarts.Then, they break down Joey Logano, Ty Gibbs and Zane Smith’s races to win their championships. Also, hear what they have to say about the skill difficulty between Cup and Xfinity Series cars and why Ford needs to help Zane Smith.Jimmie Johnson announced he bought partial ownership into Petty GMS Racing and will run select Cup Series races next year. The guys explain why they’re surprised to hear he wants to run the Daytona 500 and how this will impact his legacy.Finally, they react to Justin Marks’s tweet about wanting to test the Next Gen car with 850+ horsepower. The table reminisces on the era of high horsepower and how that could impact today’s racing. Reaction Theatre features Ty Gibbs winning the Xfinity Series championship, displeasure about the Next Gen short track package, a thank you to DBC, and two new songs.Finally, find out who surprisingly won the DBC picks championship. And hear what McMurray and the spotters thought of the surprising 2022 season and what they expect to happen this off-seasonThank you to our presenting sponsor Offerpad and partners Xfinity and RacingUSA.com for making this show possible. Want more DBC? Check out and subscribe to the new DBC YouTube channel! Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See pcm.adswizz.com for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.

Man, life certainly has a way of reminding us what's important. I mean, we dedicate our lives to this job and this sport. And in that moment yesterday morning, when I heard this news, I really couldn't care any less about what was going to happen on that racetrack yesterday. Man, we heard the news that we lost Coy Gibbs. He unfortunately passed away in his sleep. And I just, I can't imagine what that's like for Ty to go from the highest of highs to the lowest of lows and just a span of hours.

You think about Coach Gibbs. The only word that comes to mind is heartbroken. I mean, the man lost both of his sons now. Nobody, I don't think in the garage, prioritizes family more than Coach Gibbs. And it's just heartbreaking for them. So I just want to pass our thoughts on Coach Gibbs, his wife, Pat, Coy's wife, Heather, their children, Ty, Case, Jet and L, the entire Gibbs family, and as well as everyone at Joe Gibbs Racing. So we're going to take a moment of silence to kick this show off, and then we'll get wet to it. Yo, what's up?

You're listening to Door, bumper, clear, presented by Offer Pat, and I'm Freddie Craft. We're back from the Championship Weekend in Phoenix with special guest Jamie McMurray. We'll talk Phoenix as the title track, Ross Chastain and Chase Elliott's incidents, all three champions, Jimmy Johnson's return, and much, much more. Let's fucking go. In the booth, stumbling the Monday to tell you the truth. Giving the Finney's and breaking the rules. Good call to the holler to bring it to you.

Casey, you pretty, Freddy, you fat. DJ you suck. Brett ain't so bad. Jason is pacing kind of play in this race. And if someone don't crash and he's going to go mad. Looking for Freddy, he's killing. the bottle Casey is making messers like a taud. The tweet something stupid then don't even bother.

Brett's going to block you like TJ is the spotter. See them online through FF in the chat. Tell Rick where to stay off the track. All of the podcasts are living in fear. This isn't the download. It's door bumper clear. Nah, don't get it twisted, baby. This isn't the download, nah.

This is door bumper. Clear, clear, clear. There you go. I like it. Hey, everybody. I'm T.J. Majors. Spotted the 6 cup car. Had the 680s, Fendi. and full weekend with the one truck.

Busy weekend. Brett Griffin, Spotter for Colleg Racing, fresh out of Phoenix International Raceway. Is it still Phoenix Race International? I don't think it's, I think it's just Phoenix Raceway. It's not international. It's not international. It's not international. What's up?

Freddie Crafts potter for Bubba Wallace, Landing Castle, Derek Krause this weekend. Pretty solid weekend. Hey, Casey is not here. Where is Casey? We've lost Casey. She's still in Phoenix. What's up, Jason?

Hey, Jason Schultz. DBC producer, fresh back from Phoenix as well. You went to Phoenix? Jason, Jason now understands why we don't want to record in the mornings on a, on a, on a West Coast down for five hours from the West Coast. What did you fly commercial? Yeah, what did you fly back?

I'm fine with a team, but Saturday night. Oh, so you were even easier. Yeah. So you had all day yesterday to catch up. Yeah, that time change thing was weird. It was like three hours and it changed and all the way back. Oh, you're young. You'll be fine.

We got one of my favorite people in the sport in the house today, a guy who won his first Cup Series race faster than any other driver ever won a Cup Series race. And his second start, I remember watching that race going, look at Jamie. Go, get it. My buddy, Jamie Murray, what's up, dude? Yeah, excited to be here. You know, I am a fan, first off of this show. I listen to this. I've listened to probably every episode last three years.

And I have contemplated whether I want to come on or not. But it's not for the reason that you would think. I run, you know, a lot, and I listen to this show and I run. And so I'm like, if I come on, I'm not going to listen to this show. You have to listen. You have to listen. So, no, I'm excited to be here, though. It's fun and fun also as we've been kind of getting going today just to see the process of how this works.

First podcast I've been a part of, like, actually on a set. So, yeah, excited to be here, guys. First time I've seen you with a shirt on in years. All right. I'm going to go ahead and get the, just clear that up because everybody gives me a hard time. The reason that it, okay. I don't know. I hope this is a good thing.

And I see you every morning at 7.30. Here's the thing. If you have ever run before and you have, which clearly none of you have. I was just saying, you're at the wrong table. Clearly this table is not the running table. But when I get to my point,

everyone's going to understand here. If you run for any long period of time, you will realize that even as a man, you have breast, okay? Some bigger than others. And some clearly. Freddy has chesticles.

Those are chesticles. Those are chesticles. I mean. And when you sweat, your shirt turns into sandpaper and it, it chafes you. Your nipples? Your nips. Yeah. Sorry. Yeah. So, so, so, um, so I just, I just, I don't remember the shirt on because otherwise you just spend every day bleeding in the shower and, and that's the, that's the, I like it when it's hot enough out that I don't need a shirt. So I can save my nipples if I don't run. You could, you could say, I thought about this. You're probably like a C cup. If I just had to guess. So wait a minute.

I got it. So I'm not sure I buy this theory because how do you explain the Cabo shirt of thing? Well, I don't remember the Cabo story. You know the Pee-Poblo twists swinging on your head? That was you. Yeah, that was you. I have never done that running though. I will clarify that.

That was a long time ago, TJ. You can't bring up old times here. Yeah, it's, uh, I do like you bred this joke around. I love running. That's kind of turned into my passion. And so hot out, I remember with no shirt on. How many miles do you run a week? Typically.

It depends. I'm going to do about 65 miles this week. Oh my God. I'm doing a marathon. That's life from here to Myrtle Beach. That's not true. I'm not going to drive 65 miles this week. He legitimately or not.

You know, so let me back up here because I started running four years ago when I started in Josh Wise's program. Josh introduced me to running. And I had never, at least I could not remember ever running more than four or five miles at a time. was the guy that always complained that my niece heard or I couldn't do it. And Josh got me introduced to running and it's turned into passion. And at one time, you know, 20 miles a week was a lot. Then 40 miles a week was a lot. And I've run up to about 80 miles a week in the middle.

But it's a really good, like my, it's kind of my getaway now that I don't have racing. It gives me something to I look forward to it every day. You know, and it's hard to explain to people that don't like running, but it makes my day better. Like it honestly puts me in a better place. and I just, I enjoy going out. It also gives me time for my work to kind of think about what I want to talk about on a show. I listen to shows like this, not because I agree with what you guys necessarily say all the time, but I like getting everyone's perspective. Like when I watch a wreck that's happened or just a topic that's going on in NASCAR,

I like hearing everybody's perspective and then kind of taking all those thoughts and being able to come up with my own. So, Roney and I listen to hours, eight or ten hours a week. of podcasts. Some of them racing related, some of them not, but it kind of gives you time to think and and, you know, just kind of digest everything you want to talk about. Cool. I got to ask you real quick before we dive into all this other stuff. Man, what's

Carter up to these days? Is he racing? Well, we're a go-car racer. Yeah. We've got some work to do though. You know, I'll tell you what, it's been the best experience and probably the most frustrating. And I say frustrating because

you assume as a dad that your kid knows more than they do. And it's a little different in racing because he's been around racing his whole life. So he kind of has the jargon or the talk because he's heard it forever. But he doesn't know, right? And I assume that he knew a lot of stuff. And so it's been hard.

He by himself is as fast as anybody in a cart, but racecraft comes in and we don't get to race a lot. And part of that's because of my work and just the commitment level that it takes to go to all the racing. But yeah, we're still doing a lot of cardio. We're going to race this weekend. We're blessed to have GoPro so close. So, you know, lots of competition and a great track.

But, yeah, Carter, he's doing that. My little girl, she's into horses. So I picked two really inexpensive. I can't afford that. But I'll tell you, my little girl, I'm going to give her credit real quick because she's younger and she's tough. And she has to be tough because she has an older brother. but she actually has started working at the barn right there as you enter the neighborhood you live in.

She's nine years old. She's working three hours a day, a couple of days a week, in this barn because she loves it. But it also is a way for her to kind of pay for her lessons. And I've told her, I'm like, look, you do that. I'm like, I will pay you the difference in that because I just think that what you learn about hard work and getting better and just that's how life is, right? Like nothing is free in life. and so to me she's getting just invaluable experience.

So you're one of the guys that came up, your dad went go-kart racing with you, instrumental part of your career. You didn't have a lot of money behind you. Like you were one of the few that came up without a rich dad. Yeah. My dad was a part salesman for a company.

It was mainly performance. They make rods, pistons, valves for engines, but a lot of racing stuff as well. So he was always involved in racing. and my mom was a school teacher. And no, we didn't have a lot of money. And we were really lucky to be able to, like my whole career,

because I have people all the time ask me at the go-car track about, you know, about Carter trying to make it, you know, in racing and how, what path their kid can be on. And the reality is, there's no, there's no, like, unless you just have a really rich parent, that's a guaranteed path, if you want to buy your way. But if you're not buying your way,

everyone has a different path. And it could be carts, it could be cord midgets, it could be late models. I think there's a lot of different ways to get there. But I was really fortunate because throughout my entire career, right when I thought, this is probably it, it's probably over, the next thing came along. And that could be the opportunity I got to go run late models. And then when that was going to run out, I got this opportunity from Mike Miller to go run trucks.

And it wasn't a good team, but it got me an opportunity with like the next level of a truck team. And then the Bush series, Xfinity series, I mean, it's just like, it wasn't, it was really hard. And there were a lot of times, I'm like, this is not going to happen. and just the next thing kept coming along. What about the Sterling thing? Obviously, he got hurt, right? Yeah, so Sterling, I got signed. I'd say a good story.

And you might know the story. I was in a Harris-Teater grocery store, which is the chain in this area. And I was shopping, and it might have been on like a Sunday, and I had an agent, and he called, and I see it him, and I'm like, I don't want to talk. And do you remember the old next cell phones? You could square people out.

Remember that's what you said? I'll square him out, right? You don't talk to him. So I squared him out. And he left me a voicemail. And so I answered the, you know, I listened to the voicemail. And he's like, listen, he's like, I need you to call me back. This is urgent.

And so he called me back. And he's like, you're not going to believe it. He's like, but he's like, Chip Ganesi and Felix Sabatis have called. Because I didn't know where I was going to race in 2003, I guess. So this would be 2002. He's like, they want to talk to you. And so I left my buggy right there in the Harris Teeter grocery, we were full of groceries.

And I went home so I could call my mom. dad and I'm like you're not going to believe it but like I think like the opportunity is is coming along and and it was huge for me because I didn't come for money as you mentioned and and my parents didn't have a way of funding that type of a level so it was it was pretty cool but I got that opportunity to go drive for chip and Felix they they signed me and we made the announcement at Richmond which I don't remember what race there might have been 10 races to go and it was like the next week at Kansas Sterling broke his neck got the got in the got in a wreck at Kansas came home and got x-rays and it was it was fractured and you know they told him he couldn't race and

and and they ended up putting me in his car and that was that was just the the craziest time of my life because I've never been that nervous because you got to think back I was you know I hadn't won a truck race or an Xfinity series race at the time and I got signed to run this car for Gannasi and all of a sudden I was just happy to have at the moment and then they were going to put me in the car that was leading the points. I mean, it would be like, you know, the points leader, you know, seven races ago this year, I getting hurt and just throwing an unknown in that.

It's pretty nerve-wracking. And Talladega was my first race. I'd never made a green flag pit stop. And we went to Talladega and there was no caution flags. Ran the entire race with no caution flags. They then threw the green flag at Charlotte and we ran like the first three pit stops with no caution flag. So I'd never made a green flag pit stop.

and I'd made seven of them in a row in my Cup series debut. A lot of practice. It was a lot of practice. But it was pretty remarkable. And I'd tell you, it was an awkward moment in Victory Lane because they gave me a phone with Sterling. Like it was on TV. They gave me a cell phone with Sterling on it.

And I, as excited as excited as I was, I immediately put myself in his shoes. And I'm like, here he is sitting at home. And I know he's acting like he's happy for me, but you're not. Right? I mean, like, that's his car. Yeah. There's no driver. that wants his car to do well

when he's not in it. Especially not. Me, like, you know, was like, who the hell is that guy, right? I mean, I was known for hair. You had cute hair. He had new kids on the block hair. I had frosted tips, right?

That's what I was number. So, like, it was just the, I mean, but it was an awkward moment, but it was also an incredible moment to be able to win that early and that, you know, helped me for years after, yeah. So from there, obviously Ganesi signs you,

you race with those guys. You leave to go to Rausch. Rouse didn't work out so well. Other than the fact that we got free Crown Royal every weekend. Yeah, Roush, Roush was, so Ganesi, that I try to explain this. Ganesi, if you did well, Chip didn't call normally. Like, he didn't call and pat you on the back when you did well. He always called when things didn't go well.

He would call me like, it's going to be okay. Don't worry about it. And he never blamed the driver. And he might have, he might have behind your back. He might have to the crew chief and everybody else. but to you he was like listen we're going to get the cars fixed it was he he he just I always felt like he believed in me and that was huge because as a driver the mental side of this is is 90% of it it's so big to have confidence and chip always always was like you know we're going to get the cars fixed

we're going to get the cars fixed and then I went to rouse and jack jack was like you you could be drowning and he put his head on top of your his foot on your head I mean he just like it was just totally different environment and they always joked around over there that there were five teams and that was the five dogs and there was only four bones thrown on the floor and you better get one of the bones because because it's just nobody worked together at that time like there was the five teams over there and they all no one I mean it was horrible the that was that was a terrible experience and that's what made me appreciate the opportunity when I got to go back to to drive for chip is that I just I didn't appreciate how how good it was at Gannasi until even though

Roush had won all these races and championships. The culture at Roush at that time was not good. Yeah, not healthy. You go back to Gannasi. You have so many best years of your life. And in the same year, you win Daytona 500 and the Brickyard 400. Yeah, it's, I mean, a lot of that was confidence in getting to go back there. We also had ECR engines that year, which were just, I just remember on restart.

It didn't, as long as there wasn't an ECR engine in front of you, you were going to pass, whoever was in front you. It was amazing how much power they had. We had really good Super Speedway cars, which the Dayton, I think we won the, we won Daytona, we won Indy. Almost won the Coke 600. Finished second in the Coke 600, a caution came out. I remember that.

I won the Fall Charlotte race. I finished second in the Southern 500. I think I finished second or third at Bristol night race that year. Like it was just. And didn't make the playoff that year. I know, I know. That's why they changed the rule. Yeah.

Because a guy like you deserve to be in. Yeah. Well, I see, I don't. I don't totally agree with that. I mean, we didn't run well enough. We were really good at mile and a halfs and we were really bad everywhere else. Mile and a halfs and road courses I was fine at.

The short tracks that year we weren't very good at. And we had these like really low lows. Like when it was before, here's the thing that it's hard to relate to in today's world is that because of simulation, you don't have bad, bad days. Like your bad day, you're just a little bit off. But if you get track position, you maintain.

in 2005 to 2010, when you had a bad day, you were five lives down. Like, you were Kyle Bush the other day. I don't know what happened to him at Martinsville. Like, you only had three tires on this car. So something wasn't good, right? Something was broke. But, like, you could have days a lot. You could have multiple of those in a year.

And it wasn't because something was broke. It was just, you just missed the setup. And it's a little bit different now, but we had a lot of peaks and valleys in 2010. Yeah. So obviously, Gannasi sells to track house. Were you surprised when that happened? Oh, yeah. Nobody knew that was coming.

Chips say racer. Nobody knew that was coming. But I'm going to tell you some. And people asked me a lot this year. And I don't know how much he sold it for. It was a lot. It was plenty. And it was plenty more than Chip Canassie ever thought he was going to get out of that.

Because, I mean, other than Evernham, which I don't know, that was unbelievable. He had the lottery. Other than Everham, I can't think of any race team that was sold that the owner came out ahead on. So I would say, people have asked me this year like, man, you think Chip regrets selling that? And I'm like, no. I'm like, I think he's counting $100 bills. Thanking God every day that he was able to sell this. Because in all the years that I was with Chip, the IndyCar program, it didn't take care of itself,

but they always were a contender for the championship. They always won multiple races a year. They just, even the sports car team, it just always contended to win the Rolex 24 hours a day. I mean, like, he had all the success. And with the exception of, of me in 2010, Sterling, like, in 2002. And then Kyle Larson, kind of in like 17, whatever year that was, all the other years, pretty hard, pretty tough. And it was, it was never sustainable. And it wasn't because, I mean, Chip spent the money.

Like, I, you know, Chip always would tell me, you know, if you ask for something, he's like, if you can justify to me why we need $25,000 of the brakes or why you need this or that, he's like, we will buy it, we will sell sponsorship, we'll figure out how to get it, but we're not just going to buy things because they're shiny and have chrome on them, right? So he spent the money, he was doing everything. It wasn't like he was cutting corners. It's just hard. It's just really hard to be successful at the cup level.

There was only one time I was ever mad at Jamie, and we were standing in Elliott's bus, and it got announced, literally with you standing there. You were mad? Yeah, I was mad. They got announced that Juan Montoya was coming from F1 to Ganesi. And I looked to Jamie, I'm like, why the fuck, didn't you tell me that? I didn't know. You didn't?

I wasn't there then. No, no, no, because that was, here's the thing. I remember Juan coming to Talladega in like 2000, whatever, I don't know what year he came to Cup, 2007 or 2008. And I remember he came to the Talladega test, and I was a huge fan. I'm like, this guy is legend, right? This is one, I just... Formula one guy.

Yeah, I mean... Indy 500 winner, Indy champ, eight time F1-1-1er. One reeked of confidence, right? I mean, like, when he walked in, I mean, he strutted, like, it was, it was, like, incredible. Now, that changed a little bit as he was my teammate over the years, right? I got to know him a little better. But, but, I mean, it was huge for him to come over. And I didn't, I didn't see that coming in.

And I think just like Chip selling the race, team of Shrekhouse, no one knew about it. I was working for Gannasi even when that cell happened and people as high up as you can go did not know.

I think that was strictly between Chip and Justin and no one else knew about it and that's why it was such a good secret. But Juan coming over I believe was the same thing. Like I don't know that Juan had a lot of options in F1

and he had a relationship at Chip and that was, you know, everybody wanted to come over and do cup in that era. Right? is popular, probably even more popular than it is right now. Yeah. Are you done driving a cup car?

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. You know, COVID made me want to race again. Like everybody that started maybe a podcast in COVID, you got bored, right? You were at home. I did. I was like, man, I would like to go back and do this because I, it just had nothing,

nothing going on at home. But getting to go back and run the 500 a couple times. Well, first of the first year, I came back and did it. I obviously hadn't been out of the car. I was, you know, just, it was like going into the following year. That wasn't a big deal at all. And I knew all the guys on my team. And I kind of knew how, what we were going to do to the car and the changes you want to make.

But then I took the next year off and I did the Daytona 500 the following year. And that was hard. Like, I mean, I still kind of knew the guys, but I knew less about the cars. And people don't, you know, it's so hard to explain that they race, people race you differently when you're an outsider. And I was an outsider because I wasn't a known, like, what's he going to do? How's he been doing?

Like, you know, when you go to a plate race, I'm sorry, I can't say that because I don't have plates anymore. Yeah, but we go to a super speedway race. You, you know, part of what made me good at that at the time is that everyone would, if I made a move, they're like, he's probably going to get to the front. I'm going to go with him, right? Or I was, I mean, the other thing that I always did

and I would tell anybody that's a speedway guy now is that I wasn't scared to be a pusher. I didn't have to lead. Like, I was willing to push you. over the fast car was and just run second until it was maybe time to race for the win. When I came back in like 20 or 21 and I ran the 500, I'm like, oh my God, it's like nobody wants to help me. And you know what I mean?

And that makes it hard. I finished okay in the race because I missed all the wrecks, but it's just, it's really hard. And now that the car is different, I would love to go drive one of those cars. But no, I just, my son wants me to do it still. He's like, what if, what if? What if, what if hell no is what I'll tell you right now. What was your last win, Talladega? You won Talladega?

I think the All-Star race was actually my last, like, points one would be Talladega, yeah. Because you want a lot of money in big races. I was really fortunate. And, you know, I'll tell you, I don't know if anyone knows this. When I went back to Ganassi, there was not a lot of sponsorship at the time. And we had Bass Pro, and we were trying to get McDonald's signed on. We didn't even have them signed at the beginning of the year. and the way that my, you know,

the way a lot of a driver's contracts are structured even today is a base salary and then a percentage of what the car brings in. And the way that, because Chip wasn't even promising me when I came back in 2010 that he'd run the car the whole year. So like when we won the Daytona 500, there was no guarantee we were going to run every single race. We thought that we were going to, but we didn't know.

And so the way that he was able to do that is they took, let me think exactly how to word this, they paid me a smaller salary. and then I got 90% of everything the car brought in minus, minus what the starting last place finish was. So if it paid a million dollars to win and it paid $100,000 to start, I got 90% of the delta of $900,000. So it's really good when you win the Daytona 500 because it is $1.8 million to win

and it pays $200,000 to start and you can do the math. You started the year off pretty much good. The All-Star race pays a million dollars win. It doesn't pay anything to start, right? So, like, those are really good. Where it's bad is if you wreck or you blow up, you just get zero. I mean, because you get nothing. That's actually a good, that's.

It's not a bad. I mean, if you're going to run well, it's incredible. It's a little incentive, too, though. I remember being, I think it was at the 500, and the CFO, not for the, well, he was for the race team, but it was also for Chip up in Pittsburgh. you know, he was a numbers guy, right? And he's always thinking, and I remember being in, like, victory lane, he's like, this was just not a good deal for us.

You know, like, he was, you know, Chip didn't care. I mean, he was just, Chip wants to win. But, like, I just remember that guy's like, like, he was doing the math. Like, we shouldn't have done this, you know. He's in Victory Lane, mad about how much money you made. That's right, yeah. That's so true. That's awesome.

Jason, you ready? Yeah, I'm ready. I want to give a shout to all the DBC fans I saw the Phoenix, too. Like, I know you all go every week, you get this all week. But I was blown away by how many. and people were like huge fan of the show like more than ever. So it's been big year. We've been telling you world wide.

I mean, worldwide. I paid $36 yesterday for a cheeseburger and french fries. And I was over in the corner in the shade eating it. And the whole time I was eating it, people were hollering at me. And I'm like, my fat asses to sit on this sidewalk eating this $36 cheeseburger.

So how much was the burger? 18. And the fries were? The fries had to be like two potatoes because it was this big. Oh, so it was a big. It was, I threw the fries away. He had to go to the bathroom halfway through the race.

So apparently I worked. $36 for a burger and fries. I don't think that's fair. I don't either. And then because he's too good for our group, me, he didn't realize that lunch was being delivered. Yeah, the racetrack delivered us lunch. The racetracks have really stepped it up the last few weeks.

We got barbecue delivered yesterday. Chip Wilde, Steve Phelps, came by a sauce before the race. Appreciate it. We had hot chocolate on for the truck race. It was good. And it was hot. It was awesome. I'll pass it in the truck race.

It was some of the best hot chocolate ever had. My taste buds are still singed. Somebody told me that's hot, and I said, all right, it's fine. I mean. Well, that's really, I'm not. But it was good. Like, what an idiot. I should just give myself one idiot.

But yeah, no, to your point, Jason, I did see a lot of people. And they did run us all the way up to number six in all Apple Sports Podcast last week. I don't know how the hell that's possible. It's Barstool. It's Barstool ESPN, door up, or clear. So when I seen that, I thought you were kidding. When you sent me that picture, I was like, I don't know you're that good Photoshop. Who's number one?

Pardon my take. Part of my take. Barstool does. Basically, if it wasn't football season, we would have been like number one. I think we've been highest consistent non-football podcast for the last 10 weeks. But yeah, that's all thanks to you guys. And to your point, Julie, what's her last name? Guys.

Guys. She, the president of, or the, I guess, former president of somebody else taking over. She was going out this week. Helped us out a lot this week. like you said brought stuff up on the roof treated us great we've seen phelps we've seen tim burman come up uh chip while so like we talked about on here a couple weeks ago it's just nice it's it's a small token on their part but it means a lot to us on the roof so we appreciate it culture of the sport has got to change we cannot have jimmy johnson a seven-time champion showing up at the racetrack

standing in line to get a hot pass like that's a that's a bad look for the leadership do you jamie i i don't I mean, I stood line for a pass. I mean, like, I'm not a seven-time chair, but like, I mean, like, if Jimmy Johnson really wanted a hard card, I'm sure he could have called. I think that whole thing kind of happened last second. I don't know. I understand what you. I would say that.

Should be grandfathered into it, just get into mail. I think it is fair, and I've heard you guys not complain, but talk about this for the last couple of months. It is amazing how a simple gesture of whether it's hot chocolate or food or just someone coming up and saying hi, like how that's a game changer for the rest of your weekend and how contagious them, you know, Steve Phelps doing that and then how you would spread the word throughout your team or throughout fans or whatever, like you do enough of that and all of a sudden it becomes like the culture completely shifts. And I would agree with you that Steve Phelps has

been, has been great. Like he just, like I remember when they announced him, I didn't know a lot about Steve and he actually sat down with me. He was at the Ganassi Summit one year. And I was, at the hotel eating breakfast all by myself. He happened to be sitting at the booth like two over for me. And he's like, can I come sit with you? And I'm like, yeah. I don't really know. I'm like, this is going to get awkward because I don't really know him. But he has a way of just talking and making you feel comfortable. And so I think he's been really good. And I would agree with you that a culture shift is what that needs. And small things like that go a long ways. Yeah. All right. Before we get started, let's hear a little bit more about our presenting sponsor, Offer,

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He's lost his mind. Oh, and by the way, no one ever seems to agree. And then spot off means you disagree. Spot off. Here we fucking go. This is the dumbest thing I've ever heard. But if you're T.J. Um, uh, uh, there's only one correct answer.

I don't know. It's time for spot on, spot off. Spot-on, spot-off. First topic. Phoenix Raceway's ability to produce an exciting championship race. Jamie, spot-on, spot-off. I'm kind of both, and I know you're not supposed to be in the middle, but Phoenix has... So, TJ does it every week.

I know, I know he does, but here's why I say that. Welcome to my world. The track does not produce exciting racing. I get the restarts, they're great. I mean, it's so much fun. And then you're like, boy, we need a caution, right? But the facility is amazing. And so I think from a TV perspective, it's not a good race. I mean, it's just, it's not exciting.

But from a facility standpoint of going there and being at a cool venue and everything that they're doing around it, I think it's a 10. But racing wise, no. Yeah. I mean, I thought, which I was surprised by it, I thought the Xfinity race was really good. You know, I felt like they could be, they could race around each other a little bit more. It was not easier to pass, but they could at least compete and race with each other where yesterday you saw, you know, it was just if you got out front.

Like Joey, I thought Joey was clearly the best car yesterday, but once he lost control the race on that one set of pit stops and he got buried back about third or fourth, he was going to run third or fourth until they got, you know, another late caution and another restart. So it's just, to Jamie's point, I don't, we just, no matter what package we've ever had there, whether it's this car, the last car, high down force,

low down force. It's just, we've just never really, to my recollection, put on a really good race there. Since 1989. Yeah. There has not been a good race there. All right. That's a fact. So that means we shouldn't go there twice in my mind.

And it also means it shouldn't be our championship weekend. But if I look back at the weekend as a whole, I would give the Friday truck race a good race. I would give the Saturday race a great race. I would give the Sunday race a terrible race. So I have an idea. I don't think that I like all three champions happening on the same weekend. I feel like we lose the ability to really promote what's important to the sport, which on that particular weekend. Let's not forget what pays the bills around here. It's the Cup Series. I wish

that the Martinsville race would pay the truck champion. I wish that's where the truck championship would actually be. Then I wish we would go to Phoenix the next weekend and crown the Xfinity Series champion. And then the next race be a place that rotates. Maybe it's Bristol. Maybe it's Homestead. Maybe it's Atlanta. Maybe it's wherever. There's a lot of places we can go in early November where the weather is not crappy, but I am not for us ever running another Cup Series championship weekend at Fence. And it sucks because, to Jamie's point,

like the facility's amazing, the crowd was amazing. There was a lot of people there yesterday. It had to be 65,000 people there. Like, it's just, I don't, I don't understand. I would, I'm going to disagree with Brett. The races were all pretty similar. Like, I feel like, like this is one of those things where,

where I was telling you that I like listening to this podcast because it's a different perspective. And my perspective now, is I'm not engaged with a team. I don't have a dog in the fight. I just sit back as a fan and I watched the race on TV. I thought they were all pretty similar.

Like they had the green flag, we had the restart, and there was some pretty good racing in the Xfinity series, but it was because we had all four championship guys in the front. Like the next-gen cars changed that because they were just spread out

through the whole field. So to me, that's what made that not quite as exciting. But I thought the racing was all, I thought it was all pretty similar. Yeah, I don't, I don't, I like championship weekend, but I also think it was cool. I've always liked the pictures where they get all three of the champions, like a homestead and send them on the straightaway,

you know, and take that picture like that, but that's a different racetrack. This racetrack just doesn't, I'm agree with Jamie a little bit there. The Xfini race, a 54 car was hands down the best car, I mean,

all day. And it wasn't, it wasn't exactly close. And I don't know, man, the truck race is pretty exciting. The one good thing about them all being there. And I saw a photo today,

Jamie a little posted a photo of, of, I saw, I saw there was four banners, like, stickers on the wall. And I'm like, well, how are there four? I didn't realize the Arca race was there too. And so I take myself and I'm like, think if you're the guy that won the Arca Championship and you get to maybe be in the same photo as Joey Lagano. I'm like, that's pretty cool. I mean, like, I see your point.

Yeah. But I also, I like that all being together because I think it's, I think that that's stepping stone. It's dreams, right? Like, man, you get to be in the same photo with Joey Lagano. I think it's pretty cool. That is cool. All right.

next topic, Ross Chastain and Chase Elliott make contact on a restart that spins Elliot into the inside wall taking him out of title contention, T.J. Spot on, spot off. I mean, I'm spot off because I think that kind of took, that was the race right there. That was where it was going to get exciting. And it kind of was like, all right, let's see what happens here. Oh, then it's gone. But Ross made an aggressive move and Chase kind of through, I don't know, maybe through a late block and they come together and the wreck happened but I think that

the race was building up actually at that point to me it was like okay you know the 22 had a bass stop got back in some traffic a little bit and next thing you know he's starting side by side with the nine the one's right behind him 20s row back you know so it's like okay here this is starting to get interesting who's going to do what

here they took the green and it was like yeah so you know watermelon the train struck again. So what do we call it, Freddie? Don't give a to her.

Yeah, the wrong sheds. I'm, I'm, man, the thing I'm most spot off for about this whole thing is Chase Chase Elliott in these media sessions. He's our most popular driver. He's who I would say 80% of our fan base at least likes if they don't love him. He's the modern day Dale Jr. And when you walk into media center sessions where he's the hot top. he flat out won't talk.

See, I like it. Here's why I like it. Why? Because I think the little bit of like, I feel like when we do interviews with Chase, like two ways, I'm like it's a little, like he never really answers. It's a little mysterious. And I like that I don't know, like he's just always kind of reserved. And I don't, like, I don't know how to say it.

Like there are some guys that you look at him and I won't say who, but you're like, he wants to be cool, but he's not, okay? I think Chase Elliott is kind of cool. I kind of like that he doesn't expose himself. And I don't know. I kind of like it. I get why, because at the end of the day, Mr. Hendrick and Napa are all he, that's the two people he needs to keep happy. Whoever the CEO of Napa is and Mr. H, right?

So what he could say could be detrimental. But at the same time, like, I'm sitting here hanging on the fact that I want to know, did Ross Chastain wreck you or did you wreck yourself? And he won't tell you. But here's why. is that I don't think he knows because I watch the first of I'm spot off

and here's why it happened with 100 laps to go and it happened with Ross Chastain who you just don't give the benefit of the doubt to right? If it's anybody else I'm like I don't know he was probably there but it's Ross Chastain and there's a hundred laps to go

that's the move you make with on the last restart or maybe it's with 50 to go but not a hundred you know with 100 laps to go we're going to get a caution so spot off I think Ross was too aggressive at that point but I think the reason Chase didn't answer is that I don't think he knows. I think he's like, I need to go back and watch.

I need to go back and watch the N-car. And when you're standing on pit road and they show you the replay, you're kind of looking at it, but you're also, there's a lot going on. That's what Brett likes. He likes them reactions. I don't think you know at that moment

because it was, if, if the other thing is, Ross went from like the penthouse to the outhouse. The outhouse, right? I'm like, man, this guy was a rock star last weekend and anyone he gained, He totally lost him in one move at Phoenix. But I don't think Chase knew who was in the right or wrong there.

Because I think depending on what side of the team you're on, you could have seen it either way. So I'm surprised. So you think that Ross was, that was an aggressive move on Ross's part. Well, you know, when you pull to the bottom, well, first off, we saw Ty Gibbs on Saturday almost go too fast. We saw a lot of people all weekend, I think. I would say you could have called that either way, right?

that was pretty gray area. I'm glad they didn't call it. But you can't turn down too low. So I think Chase was being like little cautious, not turning down below the start finish line too early. And Ross doesn't give a damn about anything, right? It's like there's no rules for him. So to me that I think it was too aggressive.

Yeah, I do. That's fine. That's fair. I mean, I just, the way I looked at it was and we talked about it on here, the restarts are the only chance you have to pass anybody. Yeah. You know,

and if you're not aggressive on a restart and you just, all right, I'm going to let him come down on me here. And now you're stuck behind him the rest of that run. And if we go green, we're done, you know. And I think that we put a lot of emphasis, you know, me and Bubba, me and Landon on, you know, just make whatever forward momentum you can take, take it. Like if you get stuck behind somebody, you're going to kill yourself. And that's not at every race track, not so much Phoenix.

But I just feel like you're fighting for every inch, and especially it's a guy you're raising for the championship. If you have any opportunity to get in front of him at a place like Phoenix, you have to take it. And I think Ross, I mean, I don't think, I think Ross just stayed. in it. You know, he pulled to the bottom. He had a run on Chase, pulled out of line and was taking the momentum going forward, and Chase decided to come across his nose or I don't know if he didn't know he was there or what, but. But I think that goes back to what's happened in the 35 races before this. Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, that's why you don't get the benefit of the doubt, right?

It's because you've done maybe the wrong thing and all these other ones. So you're like, you're too aggressive, right? And I think if it's anyone else, you're like, uh, but why? So my question is, is you're the nine lining up. How do you not just fully expect that and take it away before it even happens? Well, it's hard to take it away before it happens because, like, Jamie's point, if, like, there was a couple times on Saturday, this, I hate this rule at Phoenix because they don't call it correctly a lot. It's a terrible rule, but they should, there should be a camera there.

And if your tires touch a certain, a cone or a line, it's penalty. It's just the fact. Because, like, there's a lot of times where I, like, on Saturday, I think it was Justin that was behind us. I was like, all right, you know, wait, you know, you're at the line. now inside. Like, how is that possible? You know what I'm just at the line? Has there somebody outside of me? Same thing.

I'm like, I'll cash down to it. You can cut now. Inside. There's no way. How do you do that? So, like, there's guys that cheated. And then I feel like the second that I tell Landon, okay, we can cheat it here a little bit. They'll be like, all right, post a 10. You know, it's like.

But I just hate that rule there. They need to clean that up. Because, I mean, we saw it. I thought, I didn't see it. You had told me about it because you were watching it on TV. The truck race, the 30, somebody had told me the 38 was close. I saw the one. They played it on the big screen at the racetrack with Ty.

I was like, wow, he's, he has broke the plane of the car in front of him, and he's not to start finish line yet. Remember that video from, was it last year? Yeah.

I was talking about this year, but I mean, it was last year too. I mean, he's inside the guy before the start, finish line and turn it down. But there's no reason not to because they're not going to call it. I mean,

they call it on the guys that aren't racing for anything. They call it on the 42 truck. You know, they got somebody else. It's like, they just like, we're watching this, just so you guys know.

You aren't even racing anybody, but post the 42. So I just hate that rule there. And I don't know, there's no way to combat it. I don't know what you do to change it. But, I mean, it's just like that rule is always seems to be come up at that race. It's the only thing at Phoenix that is exciting ever is when you take the green and those guys fan out. 75 wide. Yeah, that's fine.

Just put us on the same box. I know. I mean, look, we're already overly officiated. Oh, yeah. We have too many rules. Caitlin Vincey sat where Jamie's sitting last week and said NASCAR is a hard sport to learn. We don't need to make it harder.

So why do we even... I mean, y'all are all right. It's... Why even wait till the start, finish line? You take the green. I said that for years. I mean, you got to stay in line until the start finish sign. People say it creates too many wrecks.

Yeah, but the start finish line deal is not going to go away. Maybe it is. I don't know. Could you imagine that? No more. I don't. I think it's an easy fix. I mean, I think that you just enforce it every single time.

and if you do, people are going to wait a little bit longer so they don't get penalized. I mean, that's just, that's the, and I think the drivers would be okay with that because I know Chase Elliott would be because it was, it was marginal when Ron Ross turned down. So if you enforce it, it just goes away and no one does it. But you got to enforce it. Yeah. It's like the yellow line rule. We just have to enforce a rule that's there.

It's like the yellow line rule at Daytona, right? It's easily enforced until the last lap. And then that's a super hard rule to enforce. Yeah, but I think because there's a rule there, people are very, conscious of it, right? Like, you're like, who don't want to give a lot? Right. Yeah. So if you know that. I'll forget about Talladego already. I mean, we just had a truck race where somebody

didn't get a penalized. Yeah, who it was. You know what we're talking about, right? I do. But I also remember, I think it's a little bit different if you get hit in the door and shoved down. And I don't remember 100%, but I believe who was mad to Benadino, got hit in the door and got pushed down. So I, I feel like there is an exception to every rule. And I, I'm with you. And I thought the same thing. but I feel like he got forced down there. No, no, we agree. Yeah.

But then Ben should have been penalized for forcing him down there. That, the rule is, you know, you can, they force, they, they penalize both ways. Either you go below the other lines. Right. Or you've been forced below the yellow line. I don't know that because it's hard to talk about it now. No, I mean, Ben forced him down there, but they, their reasoning was that Ben was avoiding a wreck that was happening, five cars behind him.

Right. So, but, you know, it was, it is what it is. No, it's a no win. Yeah. Like if you do it. It's so hard. no win. I would hate to be in the position sometimes to make some of the calls they have to make. And it's so honestly, it's, it's so easy to talk about it now. And I look at it. Well, this is what

you should have done. We don't. We don't make the decision in real time. They make it in three minutes. There are two minutes. They're less than that. Yeah. All right, spot on, spot off. We got three champions crowned. Joey Logano wins the 2022 Cup championship, TJ. Spot on, spot off. Oh, this is a good one. What do you got, dog? For him or the team? Can you do two different ones? Is there a hard feeling? I've spot off. I mean.

I see an Aides said is there a hurt feeling? I did see an ex-dbc question that came in today that said maybe Haley. Maybe Haley needs to get rid of T.J. Because the last two guys have fired you won championships the next year. Well, I wouldn't quit one, yeah. I worry for Coleman because now when Joey doesn't win a championship, Joey's going to need his 34 spotter in eight years. Nobody has fired.

And I told you this when you took the job of Joy Lagan. nobody has fired more spotters than Joy Lugano and now Todd Gilliland. Like those are two guys that when you sign up to spot for them, you better be ready to get your next job in the next three to four years because it's coming. That's the first thing you change. I mean, obviously. Yeah, he's still by her, Jane. You know what?

Are you sensitive? No, it's not really. It's hard to find them. Like Roger, it's hard not to be happy for Roger and them guys. And 22 groups, a great group of guys as well. And, you know, Joy had a great year. He did everything he had to do this year and really successful. I mean, it wasn't even close.

It really wasn't close. Well, I mean, you go back and look at it and they had the most time to work on Phoenix. They won the first race in the final in the round of eight. And then that just gave them three weeks to focus on Phoenix. And they didn't have to. I really think that matters as well because I was looking at like, JRM had to build three championship car, three championship people here in the 54 takes one. you know, so they're all their focuses on one.

And I think that, you know, when we won an 18, we won Martinsville and took, what, the next couple of races? Yeah. Let me ask you guys something. If I told you you had to pick the two most important races the year, which two would you pick? The two Phoenix race. Well, the one, two before the end of the championship, or whatever it is, the first race you can win to get into the playoff. So that's interesting, you said it, because if I heard Joy Lagano say, the two most important races a year.

And before he finished his sentence, I'm like, oh, he's going to say Daytona 500, and he's going to say Phoenix, right? And he said, nope, it's the first race in the round eight is the most, with first one's important race, and then Phoenix. And then the last one, yeah. Yeah, and I was like,

that's such an interesting mindset, because it does give you the two weeks. And I don't even know if it's the two weeks to prepare as much as it's two weeks of not the stress and the people, I don't think people can appreciate how hard it is on the teams and the drivers and everybody, the stress just trying, trying to get in and then you get in you're like oh thank god and you're like oh my god now we got

go race you know like it's actually starting now i can't tell you when we're driving on from martinsville that was the easiest two weeks of my life to go to go to homestead that year and race for that championship it was so man we're relaxed i was looking down at the spotter stand you can see all these guys and everyone's like you know the guys race for the points everyone's all nervous and you know tensed up and everything and we're just sitting there like well we win we win if we're going to race for championship no matter what so it is a huge pressure, like the pressure's off until you get to the final race. Obviously, it's back there for that.

But it is. It's huge, like what you were talking about. I don't know if it's by accident, but I feel like a lot of credit needs to be given to how fast he was on short run speed. Because it didn't seem like after 60, 70 laps, he had the same speed as some of the other guys, but he was so fast on the front end of those runs. And I don't think that was by accident. I think whatever they went into with their mental approach to that race was to be fast,

get gone and that's exactly what they did the whole race. That's his strength all year though. He was really fast and short runs. When he lost track position, he fell a lot. But Joey's, I mean, he gouges. He gets good pit stops and gouges and gets back up there. And then I do think that's been their strength all year. It's been short run speed.

When I look at the three names here, Lugano, Gibbs, and Zane Smith, the thing that I like about the three names is they were the three fastest cars or trucks at that race. It wasn't like, you know, they, like at one point in the race yesterday, I'm like, oh, my God, I'm like, this might come down, this might run out of gas. Like, that's going to be horrendous.

But those three guys, to me, at that race, and really, if you look at the season overall, you could make the argument that Noah was maybe more, had a better season overall than what Ty Gibbs did, but all those three guys had remarkable seasons. I had Christopher Bell, Noel Gregson, and Ben Rhodes were three guys I wanted to see win, and none of them won, so don't take me to Vegas.

But you talk about Ty Gibbs. I thought he drove the best race of his entire career. And his entire career. Totally. Because when I was watching this race play out, you know, not only is Ty in a fast car, right? He and Chris Gail, have been fast all year. But everybody's racing the dog food out of him.

Noah just tormented him. Like, it was crossing him over. And I'm like, in my mind, I'm watching that. And I'm like, Noah is just like, just hit me once. Just hit me one time and give me a reason to like go off because I'm going to send you. And Ty never did it. Like past him, braced him clean. It was unbelievable to watch.

And I can't imagine that they had to be coaching him on the radio a little bit. Like, deep breath, don't get, you know, we've got the best car, but he did, he did an incredible job, didn't make anyone mad. I don't think he touched anyone all day long. No, and he should have. He could have. Oh, he had every right to. I mean, Noah, and even, I mean, there was one point that he's like trying not to hit Noah

and then Algeyer got by both of them. And it, you know, he had the fastest car, but it took him 50 laps to pass him back. It was hard to pass. But he was able to do it and not hitting him. That's why you made him Ross Chesteam moves, man. It takes forever to pass. Cup car is even worse. I did see.

He did put the bumper to Justin one time. I was like, I saw it right. It was right in front of us in three and four. And I was like, he don't care either. Like he's got to do what he's got to do, you know? And I don't blame him because like you said, if he let Justin get away in the beginning of the run, it would take him a long time to get him. So that was when they traded the lead back and forth there for a couple laps.

But yeah, I did see him one time. He'd put the bumper to Justin in the three a little bit. Those cars are so fun to watch, though. Oh, yeah. Because they're sliding at the same time. when a cup car breaks loose, it's big. Like, there's no like... See, I'm glad you're bringing that up

because that's one of the things that I hear you guys say here that I don't completely agree with is that you guys, I feel like always praise the Xfinity car, but I think the cup car is... I don't want to say harder to drive, but to me,

and I'm gonna go back to like running like a sports car with a really low profile tire. I feel like those guys would watch cup races and see how yawed out we would get and they're like how do you save that because i i've spun a cup car out a few times very very few but i've spun a sports car out four or five times in in way less time being in a car going

30 miles an hour it's just like i feel like the low profile tire it's a it's a razor blade and you can't you just can't yall the car out yeah you can't hang on to it and so to me i think it takes more skill to keep that right on the edge versus the exfinity car you can slide around a little bit more I guess I like the tools of being able to use the air more You can pack air on them you mean It does nothing in a cup car now I think it's a different craft right like I feel like I feel like we we become accustomed to a certain type of racing

And I like that too I enjoy watching that But what I also like is watching the best drivers Figure out the next thing that you have to do And they just look so stuffed to me and like slot cars Well the problem is because we we did this I went to a test with Kurt at Phoenix in the beginning of year. And he, like, we ran all, we ran two days. I think it was, and it was fine.

The last run of the day, he spun out and wrecked the car with, like, I don't know, 20 minutes ago. So I got in a garage and I was talking to him. And he's like, that was the first time I ran 100%. He's like, because they look stuck because they know that there's that line where they can't, they, like John, I was talking about last week when John Hunter wrecked at Homestead, you know, that was his first time in a cup car that he, you know, he found that line where there's, there's just like in a truck or exfitting car that he's been running okay I can get a little I can get yawd out and save it where these things there's like to james when it's a razor's edge I like I like dude off a turn four how many times in exfany cars you could see the guy is just drive chasing it up to the wall at the right rear and they're like oh and almost hits it the cup cars don't ever really do that there is there's definitely an issue like to me mile and a half's are really good I think the mile and a half racing is gotten way better is really like and if you if you go back you know 10 years that was our worst racing we had the most tracks and the short tracks and road course is

good. Charlotte was incredible this year. Yeah. Yeah. If, listen, if every mile and a half

race at Charlotte was like what we had this year, there would be no such thing as the roval. Yeah. Oh, yeah. We never would have made,

we'd have two races there a year. We want to run to big track again. But they have to work on the short track and road course program because those races, those races were not good this year. I mean,

not fun of watch. We're literally blocking, like taking a line away at the short track. Like, hey, you can't dime in the coin anymore because you're giving them

that air on the bottom. Martinsville. Right. Like, and you can see it. I like that they can shift because I think that takes another skill, but when they can downshift and then mad it because there's so much tire to get going. Yeah. Like,

I don't like that. That's the biggest thing I've noticed in Martinsville, especially, is like you used to be able to get a guy. Like if he overdrew the entry or like if he made a mistake in the middle, like you, oh, now I got momentum rolling to him. I can dive out of line. Now it's just like that guy makes the same mistake, drops a gear in floors and he takes off. You're like, what happened? What just happened?

But yeah, you know, and I think OD addressed that where he said this week that they know that they're good. They know there's a problem and they're going to work towards it. You can't have it perfect. There's no way you're ever going to build a race car. It's hard to balance it out. Oh, yeah. You can't have a perfect road course car, perfect mile and a half and a perfect short track car. Yep.

And the speedway as well. They got about two years figured out because I got a feeling we might be ending at a short track soon. So hopefully they get that figured out. All right, Zane Smith, quick. What thoughts on his impressive ability to get back up through the field and win? I picked him. I thought he was, he's, he's been in position to win that race for like the last two or three years. And some late restart always seems to burn him.

I think Creed got him a couple years ago. And then Ben Rhodes got him this year. And it almost happened again this year with a late caution. That, that race was something else. It's a good race. Yeah. I mean, it's good. They were better than I had hoped because, you know, they usually tend to put on a little bit of a show there.

but it was okay for the most part. I feel like Ford's got to step up and make some magic happen for this guy. And I think they are. I think they're putting him in. He's going to run whatever he said, six or seven. Yeah,

he's got some, his schedule's expanding next year. He did a great job at Gateway. I mean, I hear nothing about great things about this kid. I don't know him. But I think Ford has got up say, hey, this is our next guy

and hold on to him and give him a path to be great. Look, Zane Smith can drive, most importantly. He's also good looking and he's well-spoken. Like he's got everything that you could ask for in a driver to be an ambassador for a brand. There were rumors two, three years ago. I thought he might end up actually at Gannasi. If Kurt was going to leave, it seemed like a monster really liked him.

And I'm like, man, he might end up at Gannasi in a cup car, like, you know, sooner than later. But to me, he's the next guy that, you know, I feel like when you look at trucks or Xfinity, if you stay there for more than like three years, you get like stuck. You're stuck there. Yeah. And I think you're racing, it gets, not that it gets worse,

but the, you just, you can't keep excelling and getting better and better and better. Zane Smith, to me, though, is the next guy. Well, so let's talk about that a second. Are you, shit? Shut the door, Jason. It'll get better.

Damn. Silla. I was trying to keep my composure. I thought the, chees-y-old. Oh, dang, man. She said cheesy corn T.J. gave me yesterday. I don't think that's from yesterday.

What did you have this morning? Jesus. I think he ate death. This is what he had this morning. Oh, dang, Brett. The air is so stuck in here right now. Can you open the door again?

If everybody takes a deep breath, it'll get out of here quicker. Oh, my God. So thanks to DGB, thanks to the offer pad, we're done for the day. What are we talking about? It's a little f***ing smell.

Let's go out of the back. Well, Yankee candles, for Breeze. Do we have any of these things? There's got to be something in there. You can spray. So, Jay, I want your opinion on this. Ty Gibbs.

Ty Gibbs rolls into Xfinity. He's apparently moving to Cup next year. Is he ready? I would have said prior to him getting in the 2311 car 100%, right? He's won 11 of 51 Xfinity Series races. The same, a pretty similar track record to Kyle Bush, who obviously is one of the best ever. He started out in Cup.

I'm like, oh, yeah. like he's he's legit but it it didn't seem like he kept getting better every single week if if anything if you look finish wise he actually got worse and i don't know how that is i don't you know i feel like cup for a lot of people from almost everyone is easy at first and then when you get in the grind of the length of the races and and everything that goes with it it gets harder but i mean i think you have to put tie gibbs in a in like a top 10 of best drivers right now on a track. I mean, the thing that it's pretty easy to be critical of Ty Gibbs for a lot of stuff he's done, he wants to win. Like, he wants to win more than most.

And you can't, what is the saying? It's easier to pull the reins back than it is to whip it, right? Yeah. You don't have to pull, like, he's, he wants to win his desire, his, his commitment. He will figure it out. So I think it's going to be a tough road. next year for him. But yeah, I mean, I think he's ready to go do that. So you and I talked about this year's ago. I don't know if you remember it, but there was a point where you guys being the Jamie McMurries,

the Clint Boyers, the Elliott Sadler, the whoever, y'all were running a full cup schedule, and then you were all running 15 to 20 Xfinity Series races, and me and you literally talked about it, and you said you guys own the Cup series because nobody can come up through the ranks to take your job. And now we're sitting here where they've opened it up the exact opposite way, where they don't let the cup guys go run all the races.

Do you think it's helped these lower series develop rivalries? I mean, when you look at the Ty Gibbs, Noah thing playing out. When you look at the truck series drivers, like I really feel like you guys, the cup guys, not going down there and dominating these races, has brought the racing level, the rivalries, the synergy of those series up. What do you think about that? Well, yeah, because you get to have a star. because no one cares if if like i when i think about like this year was good with with no one tie but the the two years we had with brisco uh bell custer yeah reddick yeah i mean like oh man those were some amazing races those guys would run and and they turned into stars in the infinity series and so you wanted to see them move up but if you took those three or four guys and put him in seventh eighth and ninth having the same race because arvick and kyle bush and everybody else is winning you're never going to see you don't even care you're

like, well, they ran eight, two carriers, right? Yeah, and I think it also gives those guys a little more confidence. Like, we can win, we can win, we can win, because that's a different level when you move up to Cup when you've come off winning a championship or been able to win races. So I like the fact that I don't, I like, I liked watching Cup guys in Xfinity at times, but I think it's way better when you just get to have a little taste of it now and not those guys every single week. Because you're right, there was 20 of us at one time and ran all of them.

I think it's good how they got it. You can, you know, here and there, but not. don't mess up the playoffs and let these guys become stars. Well, it was like Kyle Buschow forever, right? You're just like, well, he's going to win. It's been a lot. The biggest thing was him getting a flat tire and driving a penalty. You're cheering.

Thank God. And to your point, like, it's going to give another group of guys a chance next year because they're losing, I mean, I don't even know. You got Noah, Ty, and AJ all leaving. That's probably 20 wins, right? I mean, that's a lot of wins. It's going to get dispersed amongst whoever else is left, you know? So somebody is going to be coming next star.

There's going to be another group of guys next year. Which is great for the sport because it pushes the other guys to keep performing as well. And look, we got to talk about this. Obviously, Ty wins the championship, loses his dad the same night, doesn't wake up from his sleep. He's never going to look at the world the same. I mean, this kid is on his brother. He doesn't have kids. He's not married.

This is the proudest moment of his life. And obviously, one of the proudest moments. moments of his dad's life. I don't, I feel really bad for Ty, his family, everybody at Gibbs, because that every time he hears Xfinity Series chance, I lost my dad at a really young age. Every time he hears Xfinity Series champion, every time he goes back to Phoenix, it's never going to be easy again. I mean, the only guy I can compare this to in racing would be Dale Jr. losing his father and having to go back to Daytona and fight some of those fights. Like, obviously they're in our thoughts and prayers, but moving forward, like Ty's world just got flipped

completely upside down. I can't imagine what he was dealing with yesterday. On what should have been one of the happiest days of his life. Yeah, that photo of he and his mom and dad on like the front stretch with the trophy, no one, I mean, I just, I went to bed last night. Yeah, I went to bed last night. I couldn't get that image out of my head. And it's, it's, you know, we're all older, right?

Like, I mean, like my dad's 72 years old. Like if, you know, in the next 10 or 12 years, I expect for my dad to, you know, you know, to, to move on. I mean, Quay Gibbs was 49, right? I mean, I just can't, I can't, I can't even process, like, what that's like for him to have to go to, to lose your dad. But then I also look at his grandfather, Joe Gibbs. And there was no one better yesterday.

I don't know if you got sold or not, but they went to Kyle Petty, you know, who has been through losing a child. And to lose both, you know, two, two kids, I didn't. just, oh, it's just devastating. And I'm with you. Like, I feel so bad for Ty because you're just never going to go back to that venue or think about that championship without thinking about your dad. Yeah, hard week.

And look, he was, I mean, he was getting filleted going into this week. And he had some tough media sessions. He had drivers taking shots at him. He handled it. He handled it extremely well. And, and, I mean, look, you hate to say that, you know, things make you tougher, but, man. I want to help him.

Like, I do. I did an interview with Ty last year after he'd won a couple of races. And I'm like, as we were setting up for the interview, I'm like, I don't think I've ever seen him so nervous. Like he just, you could just, and I was trying. I feel like I have an ability of making people comfortable. Like I kind of laughed with him, you know. And I, we kind of, we got started to get comfortable. And as soon as they started recording, I looked over, I'm like, oh no.

He just, he just locked up on me, right? Like, he just, and he went from like, yeah, you know, like having fun. to like this like I'm like what are he saying like you just just talk to me like we're just hanging out I want to help him because he he's a good kid and he's super talented he just he just it's some people have the ability to be comfortable right like I mean you just wouldn't use the restroom in front of us you're pretty comfortable right some people don't yeah and like him now being at 2311 like our pre-race meetings he was in there with us and to your point like the kid that I would joke around with in the trailer before the race started was not the kid you see on

TV. And I think Dale even talked about it this week. Dale's like, he's like, I wish that he could just be more of himself than have to worry about talking points because it seems like when he does interviews where he's like has a directive or something he's got to follow. He comes across kind of like, you know, not, not the best light. But then if you talk, like you said, if you talk to him, he's laughing, choking around, you know, just a young kid that loves what he's doing. And then, you know, it's just, it's, it's heartbreaking for him. His, his best interview moment was this weekend. when he was like reading, well, I want to think, you know, Monster Energy.

And I'm like, oh, he must have a card or something he's reading. And then it's almost like he goes, and I also infinity internet because my car was as fast to him. I think that's what I'm supposed to say. Like, I'm like, that's a real moment. Right, right.

You know, like, that's what you want is just, just be real. Just be honest. Yeah, it's great. I thought it was good. All right. Big news from Friday at the track. Jimmy Johnson's decision to return to the Cup series

in ownership and part-time driver role with petty GM. mess racing, Brett, spot on, spot off. Anything Jimmy Johnson does, I'm spot on. A huge respect for him. I'm curious as to how all of this went down and I haven't had an opportunity to speak to anybody that would know. Like,

if Jimmy Johnson's coming back, did Chevrolet bring him to the table? Did he just raise his hand and say, hey, I want to buy end of this deal? Like, do we know? So he talked about it a little bit. And he said that Alan Miller, who's an attorney. Who's an attorney, I believe in Michigan,

has represented Jimmy forever. And he, Alan Miller also must represent, do some work for GMS or for Mari. And so Jimmy's wanting to run some races. And he's like, you should maybe talk to Mari. Like, you know, like, I think he brought them together. But this is incredible, right, to have Jimmy Johnson come back. The thing that was so weird to me about this press conference is, and I went back this morning and looked, you would just think, I mean, it's a big deal. You got Jimmy Johnson, you got Richard Petty and they had Noah and Eric Jones and Mike Beam and Mario. They're all up there.

But no one had like a team logo shirt on or I would have thought I would have put Jimmy Johnson in this GMS shirt. Like I'd have had him ready, right? And it was like going to get an espresso and a biscotti or something an hour later. Well, he can barely get in. Yeah, that's right. He could barely get in. He could barely get in.

He barely got out of the track. No, I'm spot on. And look, Jimmy come up. I'm surprised that he wants to run a Daytona 500. Me too. Why? I mean, the son of the maniac just ran the Indy fight now. I was driving like everything.

I love it that he's wanting to do this. But part of me also is like, man, just enjoy life. Like you've got ever. I got two things on that. A, enjoy your life. You've already accomplished all the things. But B, don't tarnish your legacy. Because your legacy in NASCAR in my mind is one of the top three drivers ever,

if not the best driver ever, ever to win the championships and the airs the manner which he won them. So why come back and go out, and I don't mean any disrespect, why come back and go out like Terry Labani? Who I also had on a pedestal. Yeah, I agree. And I saw a photo, you know, because of my affiliation with Ganassi, I follow Jimmy's indie career, you know, pretty close.

And it's so interesting to me that when you see a photo of Jimmy Johnson's standing next an IndyCar in the Indycar suit, you're like, whatever. I saw that photo from Homestead with the seven trophies lined up. I'm like, oh yeah, I remember that guy. That guy right there was unbelievable. But it's the same guy, right? But to what you're just saying, Brett, you just view it differently because of what we're seeing happen now.

And I hope he can come out, run well, and then move on. I'll talk about this real quick. Jimmy Johnson came in and he changed the world in terms of how drivers approached Sundays. Fair enough, from a physical perspective, because you also went out and hired a trainer and you changed your regiment because of a guy like Jimmy Johnson. Is that fair? Yeah, I don't know that, yes, I think that's fair. I would say that he, you know, because of his success, people started like, well, maybe

that's what I need to do. But I think Jimmy's real success is more between his ears than it was like what his legs would do on a bike or running. But he, and I remember talking to Chip when Jimmy first, because I was on this email chain to like all of Gannasi and Jimmy Johnson being joined. And I watched, you know, some of the replies that Jimmy had made to it. He's a really good leader. And he's a motivator. And his just like his ability of, to me, that was his strength. I think the fitness side was something that's easy for us to look at. And then all of a sudden, everybody about bikes. But But to me, like the mental side is where he was so strong at.

Yeah. But I think some of that leads into the mental side, though. You know what I mean? Like if you get better, if you start working out, you're starting to get better mentally too. I do think you're right though. Jimmy's a, I'm spot on for this 100%. Even in seven-time champion, I mean, that's incredible.

How do, um... 14 of them over there. So, not count them, elements. Yeah, not it. It's a lot of it. That's crazy. If you count Dale's another one. Even if Jimmy comes back, you ask him like, why is he doing this?

Well, he went, he's been absolutely terrible in Indy cars for the road course stuff the first year that he ran. Got better and then had some good runs at Oval's too. Ran the Indy 500. He's doing this because he wants to. I mean, he likes doing this stuff. And he's already, he doesn't care if you are happy if he's got seven. He's doing it because he loves it and wants to do it. And it's incredible to have him back as in the sport as an owner.

And we're going to probably see him every week now almost. I, a thousand percent agree with what you're saying. saying he's doing it because he loves it. I think Brett and I's point is that we're being selfish in that we want to remember him as a god. As this legend. I want, that's my memory.

Like to me, that's what makes Jeff Gordon's career incredible is that he went out racing for a championship of homestead. He did come back to do a couple of races, but for the most part, he went out on top. And so we always are going to remember Jeff Gordon as just like the best.

Yeah. I was surprised kind of like Brett was. I seen, all right, he's going to run apart. I think Jordan was the first one to break it, that Jimmy was going to run some races. being a B part owner.

So then I was like, I wonder what he's going to run? Like what race is? And they're like, oh, it's going to start of the 500. And I'm like, what? Well, he's on. You know what we're going to. We can call it. It's just the, the Jimmy and Johnson doesn't give a F about Brett, but thanks to her.

Like Jamie, if you were going to come back and say, they tell you, go ahead and pick five races, you want to run next year. He did the 500. I did the 500 because that was my option. But if I could pick, yeah, I mean, I would probably pick some road courses. I think that I love to go on to Sonoma. Sonoma is a really good road course. It wouldn't be the Daytona 500. No, it just wouldn't be any speedway race.

No, it wouldn't be a super speedway race, period. Is he locked into the 500? He's not. No, he's got a race race. Yeah. With Earl. Is Earl going to spot for him? How does he not?

I don't think so. Hey, hey. I like it. I heard Robobie back, though, but I don't know if he's going to be spot for Jimmy. I don't know. Wow. Hey, hey, good luck to Jimmy Johnson. Yeah.

I'm pulling for him. Yeah, me too. Do you think, do you think Rick gives him 48. Mr. H gives him 48. I don't. No. I think there's too much on their, they've got that's a new thing over there. It's what's been a while too. I think it'd be different if it was like the following

year. First year. Yeah. Yeah. What was his number in Xanity? 92. That was, I mean, it wasn't his car though. I mean, there you go. All right. Last spot on spot off topic. Justin Marks tweeted, since we're in the development phase or still should be of the Gen 7 car, I'd love to get at five cars at Charlotte Motor Speedway

for a test with 80, or I mean it's 850 plus. 850 plus horsepower just to see what would happen. Jamie, spot on, spot off. I'm spot off, and the reason being is that we just talked about it. The mile and a half racing, to me, is really good. I don't, I'm okay if they want to put

5,000 horsepower in at Martinsville and at a road course, but to me, the mile and a half is fine. They need to move on and fix road courses in short tracks. I'm spot on just for the fact of you don't have to do it I just want to see what it looks like

you know I went back I seen probably 5,000 clips of the 2014 Texas race last week where Jeff and Brad were fighting and like that was just some badass like the just the sound of the cars alone in the video was ridiculous but then just watching the race and just how fast they were

you remember spinning the tires like to the flag saying to Texas right when I won the all-star race in 14, I think, it was about 900 horsepower, and we had pretty big spoilers on, a lot of downforce. And I remember taking the lead with like, I don't know,

two, or eight laps to go or whatever, and going into turn three and barely lifting and just flooring it. And I'm like, I cannot believe this thing is sticking right now because the acceleration, you said the noise, the sound of it,

the pitch of the engine was incredible. Did you hear that in qualifying? Did you see that clip of qualifying at Charlotte? Yeah. I saw someone where Dale was like Dale qualifying. It was, Oh, the Newman. Or maybe it was Dale, yeah.

I thought it was Newman, but yeah, I think it showed all of them. Newman back in the day was. They could turn like 10,000 RPMs back then. You could hear it. Like when they would go by, you'd be like, what was that? Holy cow. Charlotte qualifying when it was at night. Oh, yeah.

Oh, Thursday night. Getting nervous walking out there. I wondered what it was going to do. I got to run a 2790. It was so much fun. Char and Atlanta was the same too. Atlanta was the same thing. Yeah.

Because you would practice at three, and the track would be junk and you'd be like, oh, I don't know. And then if you were like, 10th in line, you'd be like, how fast they go? Hey, man, what? There's no way in hell I can go that fast. Newman just picked up a second and a half. What are you going to do?

I just wish the conversation, and look, I'm all for more horsepower, but I wish the conversation would shift a little bit about the gearing because I don't know that the shifting is at the problem at short tracks. It's definitely not helping us have better short track products, right? So I guess, you know, to tag on to what Justin's saying, you know these guys downshifting i mean we talked about a little show last week you missed corner martins well any big deals we talked about that you were in the bathroom so i i think that all the drivers

if you put a thousand horsepower charlotte they'd also that's better i'm and and i was on the driver council back in the day and i remember sitting in the meetings when all we wanted was low down force and that's what we had to have the racing was terrible a mile and a half with low down force it was whoever got to the lead, that's who was going to lead. Yeah, it was terrible. From a fan perspective watching, having a little bit bigger tire, I mean, what we ultimately wanted at mile and a half was Daytona Tadaladega racing. That was the goal.

That was what, because that's what we like watching that. It's fun to see the cars all grouped together, and it's pretty close to that now. Like, I think the mile and a half's good. I guess it's okay if you want to go try it, but I would shift my focus on short tracks. Door bumper clear is brought to you by our friends at RacingUSA.com.

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America's online headquarters for NASCAR merchandise for more than 20 years. Yeah, this is Andrew. I am the Brett Griffin Fan Club President of the Indiana Chatter. Finally, yes! Way to go, Josh! Way to go! The data tells me that Bubba still sucks. Freddy, you can't see shit.

I just want to say, I'm not drunk. My great-grandma, here I'd run him, and she's 90-8. Reaction theater rolls in three, two, one. It blows my mind and grinds my fucking gears that no one even traded paint with Ty Gibbs during this Xfinity race. I cannot believe it. It was all talking no game this whole week, and the way he races everyone this whole year, and they don't even think about trading paint with him. Baffles me.

But that Xfinity race was really good. with tireware. I wish the Cup Series would do this. That was some great racing, especially during that green flag run. Flip flopping back and forth. Three cars battling for the lead. That was some great racing.

I mean, I thought Dale said it best when he said, like, you don't want to win a championship that way. Like, I'm telling my guys not to wreck him. Now, he said,

like, I'm all on board if Noah would have got to him and moved him or whatever. But the people, I saw a lot of people that were saying Sam Mayer should have wrecked tie or held tie up as a lap car. You don't want to.

want to do that. That would be the cheapest shot you could take. Sam Mayer's mistake was that he didn't get more out of Noah's way. Like he kind of held up time and I'm like, go out of way. You're holding your own teammate up. Yeah. Sam Mayer, if you wreck Ty Gibbs there, you should be suspended indefinitely from NASCAR. Like, you can't be that stupid. The integrity of the championship is at stake. And I thought all three of those guys that were up there racing for it handled it great.

Josh Barry never really a factor for whatever reason that day. But I thought it was one of the best races of the year. This guy's right though And you guys I think Freddie You're the one that always points it out I can't remember the last time That someone retaliated

Later on Like I can't I mean I know it's happened But unless something triggered it In that race And then you're like Oh yeah he's gonna get him back now Yeah

I just can't remember somebody It was like down the road Like six months ago You remember that Like Kenseth was the last one But he got wrecked in the race That day Earlier that day

Which instigated like I know one but it was a long time ago. Who? Jimmy Spencer and Kurt Bush. Well, you said enough in the first name right there. You didn't have to say anything else. I mean,

remember at Indy when he does, yeah. I mean, you're right though. It doesn't. It doesn't. I mean, like,

people say, I think you said that in the moment, but the reality is. That's why Ross keeps getting away with it. That's what he's the best example because everybody was going to wreck him. He literally says, Ross goes,

they're not going to do anything. I do think Denny tried to wreck him at Martinsville. Like, they had side contact. Like, I, was a I got you here and it just didn't happen and then when you don't do it the first time you're like damn I can't do it again I can't do it again right now you know now now that we're

done with this season can we throw this fucking package off of a cliff please like genuinely that might have been one of the worst races of the entire year and it was the book end of the season this short track package has been an absolute joke all freaking year how have we not fixed this even mid-season. We're just letting everybody's go out there and flounder around and it's an embarrassment.

I think he's sitting at like a stoplight. Can you tell? I hear the turn signal. He's just leaving the racetrack. By the way, leaving the racetrack, did anybody go out the tunnel exit yesterday? Like, there was a hell of a wreck right there at the tunnel.

Like, nose is blown off cars, one on the wrong side of the road. Like, I came out. I'm like, why is it so bad? Like we got out of there really fast and I'm like, why the traffic so jacked up? And there was, I was, like, oh, this is going to be bad. Right at the bottom of the bridge. But, yeah, I mean, listen, the package, the short track package we know is not good and they're kind of in a box. There's not a, you can't make the big horse power would have made that race better?

I don't know. Every f***ing package we bring the Phoenix sucks. Like Phoenix just. I mean, it's Phoenix is kind of like Texas, if we're being honest. I mean, Texas, since they repaid it, it's just mid-down-produce good races. I just wondered if you could actually, you know, had the, had the horsepower to spin the tires more and where the tires out and make the driver into it more. I mean the tires mattered a little bit yesterday because you've seen it when guys came out on. But I don't feel like I'm and I don't feel like tire fall off is a guaranteed

better race. Like the only way that makes it better is just some stay out and some pit. Yeah, you get like like you go back like to the old Atlanta. We had four seconds of tire fall off. That was one of the worst races ever. To me, tire fall off needs to go hand at hand with the driver having some control over the tire fall off. Like if you can control it a little bit with the throttle and you're not buzzing the rears like Richmond or something like that. Yeah. I mean I think that almost goes back, though, to what I was saying earlier in the show about, like, simulation change and everything. Tire fall off, when you used to miss the setup, it was bad. And you, you could maybe make a difference. To me, the cars are all fairly close now. And the difference

in the guy saving it versus not, it's just not as big of a deal as it used to be. I will say tire fall off, but at least gives you different strategy. Yeah, it does for sure. So you got a tire fall off is always a good thing. And we talked about it like in the past, like not only simulation, but practice. Like when we didn't have practice, the races were better. It's better. It's definitely The more practice you give them, the closer that box gets. That's what I didn't like about this weekend. I'm like, I kind of know who's fast now. And it's going to let them go back and make their car even better.

Even better. Yeah. Ryan Blaney is the ultimate teammate. You have a car to win the race. And RP comes on the radio and says, you're his wingman, bud. You're his wing man. And you basically quit trying to pass him.

That is the ultimate teammate. And that shit never gets reciprocated. didn't get reciprocated with Brad. It ain't never getting reciprocated with Joey. And sure as hell ain't getting reciprocated with centric over there. So I think it's time for a YRB to get selfish and go win some freaking races in 2023. Did Roger really say that on the radio? I've seen multiple people say it on Twitter and maybe they were listening to Blaine's rail during the race.

I saw early in the race. you know, they were working together, I think, during the stages. But I think that... I think that... I think that... I think that... I mean, if Blaney's going to win the race... I mean, win the race, it's not going to cost him a championship if you win the race.

I agree. I think Ryan Blaine did everything he could to win. He couldn't pass. It's hard track to pass on. Hey, guys. I just wanted to say thank you. Thank you for getting your asses up and coming in on Monday mornings after you've traveled half to die to get home.

Thank you for giving you. us your inside opinions, insights, and views of what's going on with our sport. We really do appreciate everything that y'all bring to the table each and every week. You guys have the best, hands-down number one, podcast and show when it comes to NASCAR every single week. I love his guy. From a fan standpoint, we really do enjoy what y'all do, what y'all give us, and we really do think the world of what everyone has to say.

Casey, thanks for putting up with everybody's bull-de-s. We really do appreciate all of you being there. Go Cox. We're bowl eligible this year. No wonder he's such a good guy. This is what you were doing in the bathroom. That's a game-cock fan. No wonder he's such a nice guy.

Oh, man. We can't, listen, we can't thank you guys enough. I know I've seen a bunch of tweets about us this week, but you guys make the show if you guys didn't listen and support it. And our great sponsors, we wouldn't be here. Those other calls were Bill's fans. Go Bill's. That worked out while yesterday.

Shut up. Well, the flag just flew in Phoenix, and I'm sitting here alone, and I just saw a tweet from Bob come across my phone. He said the season's over, and it's been a crazy year. Then he shared some breaking news about door bumper clear.

He said, Freddie's off to rehab. all the beer he drinks TJ's gonna grow a pair and share what he really thinks Brett's off to the dentist to fix those gap teeth in his mouth in case he's gonna try to learn to pick up the crap or kid throws down

and as I scroll through Twitter I checked old Jeff Gluck's poll and everybody wants Jason Shultz to stop making those tolerated great that was Caleb correct yeah that was that's the guy that's the good that's pretty good that's pretty it that was clever yeah that was awesome meet Caleb this week uh breck gave me some bad information so I thought it was our friend Tyler uh rapper but but where is so no no song from Tyler this week

oh it's next okay good and then the Tyler Redick thing was so bad this week only we're walking back to the media it's not bad but it was funny one fan said hey it's Tyler Redick that I met earlier and then everyone else's like oh it's Tyler Redick you're gonna have stuff ready to make you for Tyler So one guy was, so what happened was, you're like six-half foot tall. So what happened was, I was at, I was at a bar in Kansas, and Tyler was there. So I was talking, so the guy had a dirty mow shirt on. He came over. He said, oh, I love the podcast, yada, yada, yada.

So he's like asking me for a picture. And Tyler was standing there. And so we're all laughing because he doesn't know. So then somebody says, oh, yeah, usually people ask for his picture. And he didn't recognize Reddick. He goes, oh, I love you too, Jason. That's so good. So then since then now Jason's become Tyler.

He's also a sprint car driver as well. Did you drive? Yeah. No, there's another, there's a guy named Jason Shultz. That's funny. Can you look at him? Do you think he drives a sprint car? I didn't know.

Yeah. I didn't know. 35 races has led us to this point right here. Phoenix Championship weekend. Let's get it. One my verse to cap it all, it's my pleasure. Got the final four down in Phoenix gunning for the treasure. Looking at each other trying to figure how they measure.

So if you can't stand in here, then get the hell out of the desert. So gonna sit in pretty snagging P1 on the pole. Chrissy ride in the waves, that's one is on a row. Chase always a favorite ass chasing, he's an Ellie fan. Ross hoping to bring the cup to the guy that I write better than. Green is in the air and now the flagman drops the rag. Joey said, hold his cell. I ain't looking back.

Without a doubt he took the checker. Spank the field throughout the race. But that Josey Ricky hitting landing with the marker brakes Blaney's flooded at home to take away the second stage Reddick sent for a ride Now how he wanted to leave the eight Ross got a little nosy Trying to move up through the ranks

Tour I made a stop singing homely I don't give a chase Tj caught on fire in a crewman try to lose his hand Bowman Blue a tire smacked the wall He can't afford that man more drama than my mama ever could prepare me for But what else do you expect when it's only down to four A season for the record books has finally come to end Story started and finished new rivalries and friends next year around the corner and we started all the new

but one thing's for certain it was the year of 22. It was the year of 22. How about that? I can't even clap at church and keep the rhythm. That's incredible. I think I can do that that fast. And he does this stuff

in hours. A couple hours. Yeah, I know. That's what's so amazing about it. Like when do you, can you see when his stuff comes in? Sunday night, too. Sunday night. So he does it.

It's incredible. That is incredible. Good for him. All right, thank you guys for leaving great reaction theater messages all year long. Feel free to leave us some messages in the offseason. Maybe there's a Christmas show. Maybe you will play them in the beginning of next year. And you can do that by going to anchor.

FM slash door bumper clear and clicking the message icon. One of my favorite ones was Ben's at the Panthers game of Jason. Jason. Tom Brady. That's one of the best ones. We're doing a Christmas show, right? Because I got our elf lined up. He said he'd come.

Oh, our elf's good? Yeah. He'll give us update on how Santa's progressing in the Christmas season. We just got pick a date. Okay. We'll work on that. Dirty Mo Media fans, this is IndyCar driver, Connor Daly. And comedian Joey Molenaro. We're here to tell you about the most honest, unfiltered, and informative IndyCar podcast on the market, Speed Street.

Connor and I break down the weekly happenings of IndyCar, our lives on and off the track, and talk a little NASCAR and F1 as well. Dirtymo Media's newest show is available now on all major podcasting platforms. And be sure to give us a follow on Twitter and Instagram at SpeedstreetPod. All right, it's time for hashtag AskDBC Offerpad question of the week. Send in your questions on Twitter each week using hashtag AskDBC. We'll answer the best ones. From Teresa Macros 1.

Did Blaney make a mistake by not talking to other teams before re-signing with Penske? Should he have been allowed to stop being the 22s wingman when it was clear that one wasn't going to catch him? Right. Look, man, if you're Blaney and you're happy and you're winning races and competing for championships and making playoffs, I don't know why you would really look anywhere else. There's only in my mind two or three other teams that would even want to enter the conversation because when it, I mean, look,

Roger Penske's net worth is probably the highest in the garage. Three billion plus. Yeah, as long as Paul's dad didn't come back. As long as Paul Menard's dad that wall through the door, right? So like, if I'm Ryan Blaney, again, I don't, I don't, I don't, the grass is not always greener. Jamie even said earlier. Where are you going to go?

I mean, this teammate won the championship. I don't know where you. And if he's in that race, he wins championship probably. Or has a very good chance to win the championship if he's in it. You know, like nobody with any sanity would have been seriously competitive. I mean, who would leave Penske? Yeah. He's been a competitive every weekend and week out for the last handful of years.

So I don't know why you leave. I mean, Hendrick Penske, Joe Gibbs Racing. If you're there, you don't leave unless they ask you to leave. Nope. All right. Next question from Dan Ash B-8788. Do you think NASCAR would really decue a champion and change it after if a car failed, Jamie? Yeah, I don't know.

I don't, I mean, I... That's my answer. No, the reality is I think if there was a... It had to be big. Huge. Yeah, and in front of, yeah, they definitely would. But, I mean, once you get to that level, the way pre-raced tech is and everything now, like, it would be hard to slip something through.

I think you've seen that in years past where, where, you know, they would, I think it's pretty obvious that the four championship cars would get away with some stuff in pre-race tech. And we saw it on Saturday. We didn't see it on Sunday because there's probably less room to play. Friday and Saturday. And Sunday there's just less, I think you can do now to those cars. But, you know, so I think that they kind of. Well, I think Sunday shows why we had so many different winners this year is because the cars are all pretty close.

And it takes everything in order to win a race. But it was pretty interesting to me to see the championship guys. kind of spread throughout the field because we've never seen that before. I also think this the practice hurt. Oh, the longer practice. We say that all the time. I know. Like when we ran those COVID races,

they were some of the best races because you just. It was unheard of if you would have said we're not going to practice. You know, Nick, we did that once when I race and they went in no way. You got to have five hours of practice. Now it seems odd to have practice. Yeah. All right.

Congrats to we'll give it to Theresa Macros for having this week's. Hashtag STBC OfferPed. question of the week. All right, it's time for us to get to our favorite Xfinity X-Fi, more than fast moments from the week. Whether you're behind the wheel or online, speed isn't the only thing you need. What were your favorite more than fast moments this week? Ready? I will have to give it to Joey Lugano. I mean, he went out there and like we said, it wasn't the clear cut where the four championed guys were the best cars in the field and one of them outran the other three. He outran us all pretty much all day. I thought he was

the best car, especially short runs. And, and, you know, And they pretty much dominated the race. I don't remember a time where he wasn't in the top two or three pretty much all race long. So I'll give mine to Joey Lugano. I got to give mine to Ty Gibbs. I mean, he and Chris Gale were fast all year of that 54. I mean, Jamie just said his win percentage is insane to go out there and dominate the race in the way that he did. Put on the show that he did.

Tide Tye's my guy. I'm going to go with Zane Smith, the other guy there. He's been knocking on the door for the championships and he's deserved one and earned it. So Zane's going to get my Xenity X-Fi more than fast moment. Got anybody you want to give him fast award? I'll go with the ARCA champion. I'm not sure who he was. Since you guys,

since you guys took the other three. He's not on my list right here, so I'll go with him. You can give it a Sammy, because Sammy did come back from a one-lap penalty to win the race. Who won it? Sammy Smith won the race.

I don't know who won. It was the West Series championship. So did he win the other championship? It was something Drew. Jake Drew, maybe? Oh, it was. Yeah. I think it's Jake Drew.

He was in one of the sunrise, Toyota cars. Congratulations, Jake. I think, I hope his name's Jake. The guy with two first names. That's all right. Jake Drew. Here on Door Bubble Clear being more than fast as a way of life.

Thankfully, there's plenty of weekly action for our Xfinity X-Fi more than fast moments. You know what else is more than fast? X-FINITY X-Fi. With the speed for all your devices, you get the reliability and security that keeps your crew connected and protected. With Xfinity X-Fi, you can do more on what you love with a faster internet and a powerful and secure connection. Follow ad Xfinity Racing on Twitter for even more Xfinity. X-5 more than fast moments and Jason and Ben don't forget

to vote for your favorites. Thank you to Xfinity, proud premier partner of NASCAR. What an idiot. Time for what an idiot. Brett, who you got? Sammy Smith. Xfinity series driver

qualifies up front every week and drove like a complete moron. He got into a piss and match with Sam Mayer and went through three and four and just absolutely junked Sam Mayer's car and then he proceeded to hit the wall himself and ruin his own day. So congratulations Sammy Smith. Look, man, you're in an elite ride.

You have the opportunity that every racer in the world that's working their way up through the ranks would die for. Don't get in and drive like an idiot. Brett was ready for that one. He didn't even play that one. I mean, dang. He was in my notes. Yeah.

Listen, I like Sammy. But that's kind of that look to me like the ARCA mentality. like, you know, like just none necessary. I don't have an idiot. Can I go with a rant? I have a bit of a rant. That's something that happened this weekend

that can never happen again. So I feel like it needs to be talked about. Ruin him a hot chocolate night. Yeah. The truck race, we made a huge mistake during the race and it went uncalled. And the problem is it was recognized and still uncalled.

I think it was the last pit stop. The 66 and the 18 were close to each other coming off pit road. and the 66 pulled up next to the 18 and we have been told as drivers Jamie's probably knows this forever like if you're questioning your position you pull up next to the guy and you ride there next to them and the tower is supposed to see that and go

all right 18 or 66 whoever it is so they spent about a lap running next to each other and the fish of Chris Lambert who was spotting for the 18 asked the official on the roof can you can you call in you know see what the restart is well for whatever reason it took two and a half laps. It didn't get called in.

And then it got called in. Finally, we were in the restart zone coming to the choose. And by that point, it's too late. They call it out after we choose. And the 66 pulled ahead of the 18. 66 chose first.

Pick the outside lane. 18 ended up on the bottom lane a row behind him. And after that, they said, all right, it's 1866 off pit road. So now we go back to the official. I'm standing there. It wasn't really involved.

But Chris goes back and says, hey, this is wrong. you have to wave this off and we have to choose again because he's got an advantage over me now that he shouldn't have. And it turned out it was a big advantage because when they came off at turn two on the restart, the 66 was third or fourth and the 18 was buried four wide on the bottom running about eighth or ninth. So it's just, and I was understanding that the tower recognized it after we doubled up in turn one, but chose not to wave it off for some reason. And it's just unacceptable because that's the entire season right there. You know, you don't know what happens on that restart. and you can't, if you see it before we go green,

I don't care if it's in the middle of the backstretch coming to green. And you recognize a problem like that, you have to waive that restart off and give these guys a chance to race it out fair because you have just raced your entire season and now, I don't know what would have happened. It doesn't matter for that race out. I'll change my what an idiot.

Hey, it matters like all year, though. I mean, that one restart all year could make a difference though. Yeah. You know what I mean? What idiot thought it was a good idea to start a truck race at midnight on the East Coast time? It's 10 o'clock on the East Coast time. Like, what the fuck are y'all?

all thinking. Like, I mean, you're talking about this race and what you're explaining needs to happen from a TV perspective. It almost can't happen. Like, you're now going to take another three minutes to fix this problem. TV would have a heart attack if you did that. The official on the roof, it sounds like, made the first error. Then you put the tower in a bind.

The tower made the right call. Spotters didn't have enough time to convey the message. I get all that. But why in the world are you starting your championship race at 1018 on a freaking Friday night? makes no sense I kind of got I don't really have an idiot but I got a little bit of a rant like Freddie

there needs to be a penalty for screwing up to choose if you drop out late we said that I know but that needs to be addressed like that like you can't have that same type of thing though

a guy that changes a whole Who did that this week? Nobody yesterday somebody did in a cup race Did they? Who did yesterday? I don't remember What made?

I mean who? whoever was they did and they warned them. Like, stop warning them. But that changes the whole everything. Your choose from their back. And in a track that's that hard to pass, that restart where you were going to start

and get two spots, now you've lost two spots because you're not where you want to be. It's just not right. Do you guys like the choose? Like we've had that for a while. I don't have any issues with it. Everybody likes us still.

Drivers. I like choosing your own destiny. You know what I mean? Like if you choose the bottom and you doesn't work, it's on you. Yeah. I would have either way. I like the world of outlaws deal

where the world of outlaws is the leader chooses what lane he wants, and then all the odd number cars line up with the leader. So if the leader wants the top, all the odd number guys go to the top. So he's picking the preferred lane, and you're putting the guys that third has an advantage over fourth now. But I'm fine with the choose. I think it's fine,

you know, and you can kind of choose your own fate. The only major change I want to see over the winter from a procedural standpoint, and y'all may disagree with me on this, is when a caution comes out, we go back to various loops. And a lot can change from that loop until the,

That gets confusing. It does get confusing. I mean, on TV, if I'm watching, I see the rec play out. I see. And I think the unfortunate part of that is that sometimes a scoring loop isn't working. And so it's not that scoring loop. It's like the next scoring loop. And you're like, well, that doesn't really make sense.

With us having SMT in these cars, we should have the ability to freeze the field in real time. And also, there are times, multiple times this year where people are in wrecks and we give them their position. If you have to stop to miss a wreck. you are in the wreck. If you make slight contact with anything, you are in the wreck. So from a procedural standpoint, I think we're doing things well, but it drives me nuts from a competition standpoint and from a viewership standpoint when I see a wreck happen and then you give these guys their positions back.

It makes no sense. SMT actually does have a status indicator on it when the caution comes out. But I guess they're worried about the GPS positioning not being. accurate but like I'd rather take my chances with that know you know right when it comes out freeze the field with that then I would be well what about this loop well this guy's racing to this loop they're racing to that loop I'd rather just yell us up bam go look at it he's in front of you yeah I mean if we're going to remain consistent on the show I did give jason what idiot last week because he runs 13 miles so I don't know what kind of award james he's going to get for us

you run you ran a half birthday yeah first one last week you know what cool good good for you could give all you y'all what an idiot because you let me come back and win dbc picks you oh god we've got we've got an issue well we got an issue plus less jamy has one an idiot t j's the winner i watched i watched a lot this weekend and and i didn't nothing stuck out to me that i normally have that moment but nothing stuck out to me no nothing zero nada all right brett for using the toilet and leaving the door open that would be sorry that would be my idiot dbc picks is a little controversial. So it's the most dramatic moment in DBC picks history.

TJ wins the championship after picking Joy Lagano at Phoenix. With that, he tied Brett and I with eight wins for the season. We were going to go down to who picked the most correct first place finishers and T.J. with the Joe Lugano pick got how's that controversial? It beats us to

because how did we let you come back and win? That's what I was giving because you're an idiot. TJ wins you're an idiot. BBC picks. What do you is it pay to win? Well, losers buying dinner at epic for. Casey. And Casey official

was last place with six wins on season. I was the Matt Kenseth of the BBC picks this year. I kicked your guys ass in top five and top tens,

but I couldn't win a race to save my life. I mean, I'll tell you what, man, my last 10 are pretty good. I won twice, right?

But I lost both of them because, or no, I won. Danny won and got disqualified over on that one. And then I picked them twice because I was drunk.

Yep. So, so TJ, for the first time ever, I think TJ's won DBC picks. Yep. Good job.

That's the first time ever that he didn't finish last. What is that? Who's got the trophy for that damn thing? Didn't someone say they were doing a trophy? Somebody made one. They gave me a prototype, but it's not the... Where to hell? We want it.

I want it now. I got the prototype, but not the actual one. We lost it. Now that you won, we lost it. So going into the winter, Jamie, what do you think they do with this car? I mean, obviously you're... You got to cover this from a TV perspective. Like, of the things that you're hearing, what do you think is happening with this car?

To make it safer and to make it better at short tracks? Yeah, so I think that... clearly they're going to make some adjustments to the to the rear clip and I think the other the other again I heard Bowman and I feel like a redic reference this a little bit to me there needs to be if if I'm a driver right now I'm putting a lot of effort into my seat my headrest and and I say that because the headrest that I first built in like 2009 is the exact same headrest I ended my career with because it worked and it's just what I liked and they did the sled test on it and it was good.

Knowing that the rear impacts are and I think it's incredible and I'm not here to praise spotters but it's incredible to me it's the spotters that have when their driver's spinning that in that moment they're like put your head back because that's the last thing that I would think of but knowing that that's what the driver needs to do I would increase the foam behind my helmet

and I was in a wreck in Vegas in like 2003 in happy hour. I was leaving the pits and I went to merge on the racetrack and Michael Waltrip got into the back of me, spun me around and I backed in the wall. And I remember there was like eight or ten inches from the back of my head to my headrest. And I remember like the whiplash and my head hitting and definitely concussed. No, like just no idea where I was. I went back the next day.

That was on Saturday. I went in the cup garage next day. I'm like, you have to add a bunch of foam behind my helmet because I'm like, I can't hit my head like that again. And from that moment on, I had pretty, pretty tight, like my head didn't move in my headdress very much. A lot of guys, their head does. Like, there's side to side movement and there's definitely front to back. And the reason that you don't want that phone behind you is that, you know, and if you look at any of the in cars, everyone kind of looks like they're like in a forward-seated position, like your head looks like it's leaning forward because that's kind of your natural posture in the

car. But when you want to look in the rearview mirror, you almost have to like be able to tilt your head back and you can't if that foam is there. So I feel like drivers have just from a comfort level haven't had the foam as close as it needs to be. I think that needs to be addressed. And I think also the density of that foam. And I don't know the answer to that, but they have the ability to sled test that and to know what needs to be in there. So I think the car needs to be addressed, which it has been. And I've heard, I've heard people be critical about what they only, they only did the crash test, you know, 90 degrees to the wall. And I don't believe that. I believe if you had all the data, they probably did the crash test at three or four different angles. They only have

the ability to do it so many ways, and that's what they did. But we have, the one thing that, that always comes to mind when I think about the, the issues we're having with the cars back and then the wall, is that that's never been an issue for NASCAR. Like, we see the cars crush, then a fire from like the fuel cell, you know, losing the fuel. Those have never been an issue. But if you go to like open wheel racing, those are always devastating wrecks. And it's because that gearbox hangs off the back. Well, we have that now. And they're going to have to work on it. That's definitely an issue. But it looks like they're going in the right direction. People have also been critical that it's not as safe as the old car. Well, the old car was was pretty

soft if you backed it into the wall. And we know that based on the wrecks that we have seen. So I don't know that making it what the old car was needs to be the standard. I mean, I know that the drivers say that they don't want to go backwards, and I appreciate that, but I feel like there's a lot of work that can be done to that headrest and to the seat, and maybe it's the way that the seat is mounted in the car. Like, you know, maybe it's as much as, and I don't want to say rubber mounting the seat, but maybe that seat gets mounted in a way that it absorbs some of the load that those, those wrecks taking the back. We've seen wrecks in the front, though, like Cody Ware at Texas and some of these other ones. I mean, you're like, oh my God,

I don't know if he's going to get out of that. And that seems to be pretty good. It's just the backing in. And the one that's mind-boggling to me is Reddit getting out at Martinsville after just having contact on a restart because the cars don't even look tore up. Like to me, that's where the headdress comes in

of we've got to figure out, like, what can we, what can happen there? And I know they're working on that, but to me, that's what I would work on in off-season. Yeah, because I think that was strictly like a whiplash deal at Homestead, where it was just, you know, we all stacked up really bad. the whole field pretty much.

And it's just like, you know, talking to Tyler, it's like you're running the guy in front of you, jerk your head one way, and then you get hit from high and it just throws you back. So it's just, I think that was like you said, strictly just a seat, headrest,

whiplash kind of deal. I think people are also critical of like ToLink. That has become a word this year, right? I mean, like, I don't know how many times you say that in the broadcast, but it is said a lot. I like,

I mean, like, the car can't be indestructible. There's got to be something that gives. That Toilink is what gives. And I think this car has been significantly more forgiving. and has made better racing from the aspect that you can have, like think how many times at Martinsville we saw contact on a restart

and somebody's left ear got cut down. It happened to me, I bet 10 times in my career, and you're like, God, dang it. Like, it wasn't even that much contact, but it's put me out of the race now and caused a bigger wreck. From that aspect, the composite body and the components, I think all that's been, has been really good. Biggest shock of the year.

Got to be Ross Chastain. 100%. I mean, can't be anybody else. I'd say track house in general. I mean, Daniel Suarez winning his first race there and Sonoma being really competitive. Did you guys not think?

I mean, in all honesty here, beginning of the year, track house comes out, and Ross Chastain has like three or four top five, Suarez is fast. Are you not like, oh, they're cheating?

Like, we just haven't. We just haven't figured out what they're doing, but they weren't. Like, it's just, like, their program was where it needed to be. And, and I, because I kind of thought,

man, when we get to Phoenix, like, You just don't know what's going to happen there, but honestly it was the same guys that had been running well. I do think the second half of the year, middle part of the year, people would have caught up to them because they were top of the charts every practice.

Like, would Ross and Daniel would go right to the top of the board. And second part of the year here, they just didn't have that knockout speed they had. The thing that is odd to me is, and you can't really use Ross because Ross has never been with. a good team until Ganesi. When he drove the 42 car,

he ran pretty well. Like, you know, it didn't win a race, but Gibbs is a good car? Could have. What's that? Gibbs was a good car? What do you mean Gibbs? You said Suarez. No, I said Ross.

Oh, I'm sorry. With Ross, I think it's, you can't really use him. Suarez is what's, what's strange to me because Swares did not run that well. Gibbs, did not run that well. Sturt was.

And then he didn't run that well last year even with, I mean, I don't want to say he didn't run well. He ran okay, but not like he did this year. Like he was a contender. And so when I look at that, I'm like, are there cars that much better than everyone else's?

Or does the driving style just fit? Or like, what happened there that all of a sudden it all lined up for Daniel? Yeah, yeah, it clicked. Biggest struggle of the year, who do you think? Kyle Busch. Kyle Busch. Yeah. Yeah.

I mean, like, I was looking at this. I printed this off and I'm going to get one sheet in here. Kyle Bush finished 13th in the points. He won the one race. on dirt that he should have ran third in, right? Like if Briscoe doesn't wreck Reddick, Kyle Busch is going to run third. That's his only win.

That was his only win this year on the dirt. Now, now, you know, there's always a butt. He should have probably won Darlington. The motor blew up. I can't remember the other first playoff race was leading it to blew up. Like, he could have won, right? I mean, but he didn't.

But that, to me, has been just, and especially for, you know, Denny started off bad, then kind of got good. But Kyle Busch just, I don't know, that was same all year yeah and i think a lot of that and i've said it five times in the show is the mental side of it he was this all this contract talk and and if you would have said the beginning of the year hey kyle bush he he essentially lost that ride i mean you know and he's one of the greatest drivers ever to sit in the seat but he i mean and if i would have been in his place i would have held out too

i'm like no way i've won two over 200 races i've won the majority of the races for toyota i'm like i'm going to hold out because joe gibbs is going to come up with the money to find it. And they didn't. And I just, I think that. And he finally, after it was announced, came out and was like, it hurt. Like he, he, he finally like kind of what I think, what I wish everyone would do, right? Like, you know, Kyle Bush typically kind of puts the, like, the shield up and you don't see him being vulnerable. And he finally said like, yeah, like it hurt, you know. And so to me, that's the biggest struggle. We've been in situations of spotters. We've been in situations with our friends that are drivers where if you don't perform, you're going to be

out. Who's that guy next year, driver-wise? If you don't perform, you're going to be out. I got to look through this year. I mean, this year, it was Cole Custer, and it took a while. And what's weird is when they threatened a fire him, he finally started running butter. You know, I mean, when they suspended his crew chief for the radio deal at the road. I think that if I were in charge of Cole Custer, I would send Cole, I'm going to get deep on you here. I would send Cole to a guy named Jacques DeLare. He's a, like, a head doctor, who basically teaches you that, you know, sometimes you're the bug, sometimes you're the

windshield, but you just got to perform your best every single day because I think Cole Custer can drive. Based on what I saw in the Xfinity series, he can drive. And he ran really good at Martinsville and he's, he had that moment at Kentucky. He was able to win. Like, he didn't have the best car that day. He just freaking manned up and got on the outside and had a great restart and won the race. I think he can drive and I hope he gets a shot. I know that it sounds like Stewart wants to put Ryan Priest in the car and Gene Hoss. I don't know the details of that. That's what it sounds like, but I think he can drive and I hope he gets an opportunity to stay. Yeah, I think Harrison Burton is next year. That's been tough. He's, I mean, you look at yesterday, you got three Penske.

And look, it's Wood Brothers racing's on the side of the car, but we know it's a Penske car. And it's set up by Penske. It's pick crewed by Pink, Penske. The Spotter works for Penske. I think he's got to improve by 10 positions every week on average. Yeah. And the thing, like, when I watch with Harrison and, of course, I'm pretty good friends with Jeff. Like, you know, I talk to Jeff once every couple of weeks. And I have a. have a son that races and so I put myself, I'm like, what would I, you know, I feel like with Harrison, he just gets pushed around. And I know that's got to be really hard for Jeff to watch because he, he probably wants to give advice and wants to help, but, but you can't, as a dad, you can't put that

in him. It's just, it's just who you are. He is very timid, especially on restarts, just he doesn't have that killer instinct, which you have to have right now. Like, if you don't make progress on restarts, you are buried wherever you end up. You know, and you can, you, you know, and you could see it. Like we've talked about it. Bubba's, I think Bubba's even talked to Harrison about a little bit. Like, if you restart behind him, you know you can take advantage of him on entry because he's going to be, because he's going to use him up. You know, you can use him up. You know, you can get position on him and then he's going to, he's going to have to bow out or he doesn't have to, but he does. And that's the biggest thing I see with him is he just has to crank that aggression level up. He wrecked so much early in

the year that you get in that mindset of I can't keep doing this or I'm going to get fired. I've got to finish races. And, you know, I, every time we do. an interview on race hub. We go into a show and we talk about it. Like, what are you going to say? And I'm like, I'm going to watch his interview. And I'm going to react to what I see on this interview because I feel like you can read so much into body language. And a good example is Joey Lugano. We interviewed him on Sunday. I'm like, oh, he's confident. He thinks he's going to win, right? When we interview Harrison Burton, I see it because I lived that life. I was a guy that had some really high moments and some really bad moments. And when I look at Harrison, I'm like, I know how he feels.

right? Like you're saying the right things, but when you read his eyes and his demeanor and all that, you're like, you can tell he's just beat up. Yeah. Ty Gibbs, Noah Gregson, we got some guys coming in the cup next year, Cup Series full time. What do you think we expect out of Noah at GMS? Ooh, I don't know. I think that's a vertical hill. I think I'm shocked at how well Eric Jones has done. I think that that's probably been my big surprise. Like I know Ross and Chastain we talked about, but what Eric Jones has done in the 43 car has been remarkable, and it's not just one race, it's not just at Talladega and Daytona.

I mean, like to be able to win at Darlington, I'm anxious to see how Noah does in that car because I feel like at Colleg, when I watch, AJ always performs the best in the 16 car when he's in it. He, AJ runs, he might not be going to win an Oval, but he runs pretty good. Damn, you want Homestead. Yeah, and I just don't, I don't,

as I've watched Noah in that car, and I know Noah said he doesn't drive it at 100%, but I'm like, I don't know, I don't know. Like, I think that's going to be hard. And because he's not in, he's not in the best equipment and he's been in that 48 team, which has been pretty good. But in his, I'm PJ right now because I am not answering your question. But in his defense, this whole year with this car, we see all of a sudden,

you're like, oh, Hendrik Motorsports has it figured out. And three weeks later, you're like, nope, it's Toyota right now. Toyota's got it figured out. And then three weeks later, you're like, oh, my God. Ford has all of a sudden, so I don't know that Noah's gotten a fair shake at that. I think Gibbs will outperform him, though, if they're both in Cup. Speaking of Eric Jones, when the year started, there was a lot of speculation that the 10 was going to be available.

Obviously, it wasn't. Eric came back. Then there's speculation that the 41's available. I was surprised they didn't go after Eric Jones. Who's that? Stuart Haas. Yeah. Because you look at the Joy Legano, right?

Joy Legano gets basically, if Joy Legano had stayed at, Gibbs. He was going to have to go run a full Exfindy series schedule. I told Christy, my wife last night as I was watching Legano celebrate, I'm like, if Almonddinger doesn't get in trouble back in Daytona and whatever, 2009 or whatever, I'm like, he's not

standing there. I'm like, and it might be better for him, but I guess it's not. Because he doesn't get the opportunity to go and, I mean, Joey Logano was good before going to Penske, but it's been pretty remarkable what he's done since being over there. A million percent. Yeah. I'll tell you one thing I'm interested in seeing

how it plays out is how Austin and Kyle do his teammates. I think that's a unique Fied Rodin's going over there. That's a big hire. And I had to think back on this. I think Rodden's a good fit over there. And the reason being is that in 2014 or 15, Rodden was my crew chief. And I'm just 99% sure that

Randall was actually my engineer. So there's a little bit of a history there of those two working together. And I just wonder if Randall didn't have a little bit of like, hey, I like him, I like working with him, because that's important for those crewchees to get along and want to work together. Speaking to RCR, that eight car is either hot or cold. There is no middle ground.

The three car is never hot or cold. It lives in the middle ground. Can Kyle Busch compete? Also has been fast lately, though. He's actually had some good runs. Can Kyle Busch compete for a championship with that team? Again, you're going to have to get, this is what we don't know, and this is why I can't give you a definitive answer,

is what's going to happen over the next. two months with development of the car. Like does somebody figure, does an organization figure something out? If it's a Chevy organization, do they share that with the other Chevys? Or you don't know where that car is going to be. At the beginning of the year, if you would have said, hey, Kyle Bush is going to have to leave Gibbs and he's going to go to the eight car. I would be like, oh, my God.

Like, that's not going to be good. Because, you know, that RCR hasn't performed. They've performed pretty well this year. I mean, Tyler Reddick, even at the beginning of the year, I mean, you think he should have won Fontana, I believe. and he had a, if he, not for flat left years, he wins quite a few races this year. I mean, I almost put RCR and Gibbs

not on the same level, but kind of based on the performance that we've seen this year from all those teams, because Gibbs, even though they had a car in the final four, and Denny is 100 feet from being in the final four, Truex had a struggling year, and Kyle Busch kind of had a struggling year, so it's not like Gibbs is where they were

where they won 19 races in 2019. Right, right. I also feel like Reddick came into his own with his crew chief there and they, you knew where we, you knew where he was going to be fast and he, he took full advantage of them tracks. I can't wait to see him at 2311 because I think we really see then who Tyler Redick is. Like this was Tyler Reddick, you know, I mean, it's, it's fair and safe to say that he, he outperformed Austin Dillon regularly. And, and Austin, I'm with you, he ran, he had some moments. He's had a good last month and a half. He did. He had some moments at the end of the year. Not as, he didn't have those like, oh my God, dominant races, like what Redick had.

It seemed like they were always like one adjustment behind where Reddick was. Because there were times that Reddick would blow that left your tire and be out of the race. And all of a sudden, you're like, damn, the three cars running fifth. Like all of a sudden he was there. But I, Redick, I don't know. I mean, like, he's going over, going to get in a good car. Like, I'm anxious to see how that goes, how he and Bubba get along. Like, is that going to be, I mean, like I don't know what what Bubba's like as a teammate or how that how how that's all going to mesh or like are they friends I mean like are they yeah they're friendly you know what I mean like are they texting guys like back and forth I don't know that they're close but I mean they friends I mean

I remember when all that stuff was going on back at Tal Dagan everything Tyler Tyler was one of the first ones he was pretty outspoken he was spoken about it um I think that I think the timing is a lot better I think that Kurt was exactly what Bubba needed this year and I think you've seen the effect that Kurt had on Bubba this year. And I think that next year now Bubba's in a better position to have a guy like Tyler where it's 1A, 1B. It's not a 1-2 guy. But if this year, like we're coming off a year last year where it wasn't, we weren't

great. You know, we had some mistake. We want to race. But, you know, we weren't really good. The end of this year, we were really good. So now Bubba's in a position where he is, he can be the guy. And now Tyler's just one A to his 1B or whatever it is. Does Kurt stay around?

Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well, and I don't, I don't think that the, thing good about Tyler is that Tyler doesn't have to be like hey I'm the A driver yeah no and that's valuable I think especially when you go to a team and you're new it's not like you're coming in like well I'm the guy right like I think he's okay with just yeah and I think that they do a really good job over there of like we all work together you know we it's kind of it's kind of what kurt kind of brought over like the nasty mold of we always meet whatever it was a couple hours

before the race right everybody gets together well you know both team engineers crew chief spotters drivers. So it's really a team atmosphere more so than, you know, we're looking to beat the 45 this week. You know, it's, you know, we're all kind of trying to help each other out. So I think I'm, I'm looking forward to it. I'm really friendly with Tyler, obviously. So it's going to be good to have him over there and hopefully kick his ass every week. I say, I'm asking because Jason's rolling his eyes because this thing's going long. Who retires next year at the end of the year? I would assume Harvick, if I had to, if I had to pick someone. I think it also, though, is going to depend on how he runs. If Kevin Harvick

can go out and win. Could Stuart Huss have to retire? No. Who would be the other one? Oh, Amarola? Yes, he got, so he's got, I thought it was end and after next year,

but it's two years. That's the, that's one of the most interesting things to me, because I really thought he was done. I did too. At peace with being done. And I ran into him at like a flag football game with our kids,

and he's like, I just can't wait to be here. And I'm like, oh, he's good. And then he wasn't good. No, he's like, I think, that's exactly what I'm going to change your mind.

Dang right, it will. Must be the money. I'd say, like you said, based on performance, but Harvick and Truex, you have to have them. Like, if Truex has another year like this year, like if he has another year like this one,

I can't see him hanging around much longer. He's so hard to read. Oh, you know what I mean? How? I mean, how do you read together? He's like miserable all the time, even when he's not. You know, because I've been on like,

I've been on trips with him, like fishing trips and you're like, that's just Martin. You know what I mean? He's so hard to read. That's the New Jersey and Martin. Yeah, it's a tough one. Well, listen, dude, thanks for coming on.

Yeah. Thanks for having me on, guys. It's fun. I've been begging you for three years. We've been talking about it. That was fun. It was a good time. Yeah.

Coming back next year, we're signing you up now. I'll do it. Get the contract out. I'll do it. All right. Appreciate you. We're out. Thank you guys for listening.

Thank you, everybody. We're out. Hala. Go bills. Check out Dirty Moe media on YouTube, Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. Dirty Mo.