Doughboys - Munch Madness: Little Caesars vs. Papa John's with John Gemberling

Episode Date: March 8, 2018

Actor and comedian John Gemberling (Broad City, A Futile and Stupid Gesture) returns to help Mitch and Wiger judge the first round of Munch Madness, their annual chain restaurant tournament, as pizzerias Little Caesars and Papa John's go head-to-head. Some avocado oil chips get taste-tested in another edition of Chips Inhale: Res-Chew Rangers.Want more Doughboys? Check out our Patreon!: https://patreon.com/doughboysSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

1959. Mike Illich, a Marine Corps veteran and retired minor league baseball player, partners with his wife Marion to open a pizzeria in suburban Detroit. 1984. A pizzeria is open in Jeffersonville, Indiana by John Schnatter, who, like many rich capitalists who hold themselves up as paragons of the meritocracy, was able to start his business because of financial aid from his father. As the Illiches turned their Motor City original into a value-oriented nationwide pizza chain, they would also become extraordinary philanthropists, running a charity that provides hot and ready food to disaster-struck areas, launching a foundation that helps veterans rejoin the civilian workforce, and personally paying the rent of civil rights hero Rosa

Parks until her death. Meanwhile, as Schnatter's pizza chain expanded beyond the borders of the Hoosier state, so too did his illegal troubles and PR struggles, as his company was hit with numerous lawsuits for unpaid wages and false advertising, and deal with its plastic surgery-scarred CEO publicly whining about paying for his employee's health insurance and now protests against police violence impacted his bottom line. But there are no bonus points for corporate ethics here in Kitchen Stadium. It's all about the taste of that zesty pie. Will it be the chain with the absurdist commercials and the toga-clad cartoon mascot whose catchphrase is Pizza Pizza? Or will it be the corporation whose ads feature alleged P.E.D. user Peyton

Manning and Schnatter himself, who combines the acting talent of M. Night Shyamalan with a physical appearance of a melting wax figure of Rob Lowe? This week on Doughboys, the third match up of the quarter-final round of Munch Madness, the Tournament of Chompions, The Slice is Right, CEO Region, Little Caesars, versus Papa Johns. Welcome to Doughboys, the podcast about chain restaurants. I'm Nick Weiger. Alongside my co-host, the girthday boy, Mitchie Two Spoons, Mike Mitchell. Hey, you can't use the thing that I'm happy about to make me sad. What? You mean your sketch group, the birthday boys? Yeah. Was that what it's referring to? Yeah, it's obviously a reference to that. That was courtesy of at Zach T. Bloom.

If you have an insult you like me use on Mitch at the top of the show, roastspoonman at gmail.com is the address. Oh, well, all right. You're happy about the birthday boys? I feel like you were always stressed out and angry about. What are you talking about? I did a show with you for years. Yeah. So you have like good memories wrapped up in it. It just felt like a source of stress for you. Like when you were working on that. What the hell are you talking about? Weren't you always like complaining about working with like Dave Ferguson? What the fuck is this? Did you always like you guys have some sort of? You're going to cut this out of the pocket. This isn't true. Cut it out. Complaining about working with Dave

Ferguson. Yeah, I felt like you guys had some intergroup tension. Dave and I fought a little bit earlier, but now we're going to have Dave on the show to talk about this. We fought once at one point. Okay. That was just one thing that I in my mind during the TV when we did the IFC show. It was great. Okay. Everything was what did you get? I mean, but with your, you know, you guys had some tensions and maybe not have been within the group, but maybe in terms of making the show. Is this something Dave Ferguson has told you? No, this isn't something I've heard from Dave. I thought we've talked about this is the weirdest you've ever been to open up a show. I just thought that birthday boys stressed you out and frustrated you at

times. And so I was everything stress. Okay, I apologize from daddy ever stress you out ever. Yeah, but my, did it ever frustrate you? Yeah, of course, then there you go, you fucking psycho. I just feel like you're a guy who complains a lot. Oh, fuck you. All right, I'm sorry. We'll cut all this out. Apologies to Dave Ferguson, who I thought this was some sort of larger beef, but it was apparently just one. No, I love Dave. I love Dave too. Dave's a great guy. We see eye to eye. You complain all the time. Susser can back me up on it. You fucking bitch. Anyway, to Mitchy two spoons nation. Here's a drop. I hope it's not as fucking crazy as why you're

I like to warm up my salad in a saute pan. Warm up my salad in a saute pan. Warm up my salad in a saute pan. It was fucking pointless. Warm up my salad in a saute pan. Warm up my salad in a saute pan. Warm up my salad in a saute pan. Hot lettuce is disgusting. Warm up my salad in a saute pan. Warm up my salad in a saute pan. Warm up my salad in a saute pan. Jesus Christ. I'm sorry. Huh. Well, that was from Dan Padley. I'm sorry, he says. Love the show. That's pretty good. That was well done. Twitter at Padley Dan. He's gotten a couple in I think now. Good job, Dan. Anyways, Weigar, is there anything else?

How do people submit drops? I feel like I see that question. Spoon man drops at gmail.com. You should just say that at the top of the episode. Hey, if you want to do a drop, send it to spoon man drops at gmail.com. Because we get that question a lot in the Doughboys Twitter mentions, and I don't know what the answer is. So, do you want to air any more of my beefs, my non-existent beefs, your fucking psycho? I heard that while working with Armin, you two, what else do you want to say? You 100% bummed heads with Armin. Yeah, no, he's not easy to work with. He's a great dude, but come on, that guy.

All right, it's our guest, Ysako. He's the only one here who's, well, there's a few people here that are normal, Steven and our guest. And our guest. There's three of us. From Broad City, the president's show in the film of feudal and stupid gesture, which is now streaming on Netflix. John Gemberling is back. Hi, John. Hi, thank you. Thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Thank you for being here and eating pizza early, but before the first slice before maybe a minute before noon.

I'd say it was, it was generous. It's the lunching hour. We weren't, we weren't eating at 10.30 a.m. Yeah, it was ready. Yeah. Okay. But it was this though, UCB sketch cram writer session. Oh boy. What? People will get that reference? Yeah. God. 11 people will get that reference. I don't even really get the reference. They order pizza and you get it at like noon. Did you have, did you have sketch cram in New York? Was that ever a thing? I don't know if there was anything called sketch cram. There was always versions of,

you know, people are always trying to be like, how do I not like put time into writing an actual show? Right. How do I do it? How do I do the quick show all in a day? There was a show called sketch show years ago, like 20 years ago or 15 years ago that was like, yeah, a bunch of people just like writing a show quickly. I don't know if it was in a day, but do you think the West Coast used to be, do you think we're like dorkier? I mean, obviously sitting here with Weigar and I right now, let's give you a bad impression of what it's like out here. Well, I mean, first of all, I've lived out here for almost six years. Yeah, that's true.

Been coming out here for like over 10 years. Right. I feel like, you know, I don't even have a sense of the New York scene anymore, really. I feel like it's gotten, my feeling, I mean, if you really want to know, is that New York's a lot bigger, I think more students, right? Or is it the same at this point? I feel like it's got to be bigger. Yeah. I honestly don't know how big, I mean, I live in LA and I'm out of touch with UCLA. I don't know what's going on there. Yeah, you're out of touch with me too, by the way. I feel like I know you pretty well. I mean, there's so much more,

there's more that people do out here in New York, because Hollywood's not there. People just, like getting on a Herald team, I think is or was for a long time the sort of end all be all of what you could do. I feel like that's less of a focus out here. There's so many more avenues to put yourself into and get paid. So it feels vibrant to me in a different way out here, me being not that involved in either scene day to day anymore. Yeah. Yeah, when Nick is retired, right, and almost retired from comedy, I mean, is this it? Involuntarily at this point. Is this it right now for you? This is all I got going on. This is it for me. I guess this is it for me too.

No, I had a job through the later part of last year, and then that show went away, and then I haven't really worked since. So yeah, I'm all in on Doe Boys till this goes away, and then I'm going to get a job at Costco. You kind of have like the mightest touch, whatever show you touch gets canceled. I'm trying to start shit with you because of what you said earlier. It's true though. I've worked on a number of canceled shows or projects that never went anywhere. I worked on a show. I got hired on a show for NBC that was canceled two days before I started work. So like just like the fact that I was going to be around it, they were like,

all right, this thing is going away. And they paid me. They paid my full contract. Really? Yeah, I was two days before. That's the best scenario. I mean, it was probably the best job you ever had. I guess so. I got paid not to work. They were like, we'd rather have not have a show than have Weigar in the writer's room. I was just going away. We're going to pay him not to do it. NBC or CBS or Fox or anywhere you're listening. You got a guy here if you want a show done. The voice giving you trouble. So you got Weigar on this associate producer. I'll deep six that real quick. You want to get the good doctor off your airwaves? Weigar could be in your writer's room and send it to hell. Is the good doctor, is that the

doctor? Is that the boy who's the doctor? Is who's the autistic boy? I don't know. There's a show about an autistic boy who's a doctor? Yes, and then like in the commercials. This is the good doctor? I don't know if this is the good doctor, but it is a doctor show. Different than the good wife. There's a series of good shows. There is a different, there's a good wife spinoff that's called, it might be called the good something. What the hell is it? Oh, it is. Oh, the good doctor is the autistic boy show. An autistic boy is a doctor? Yes, right. Yeah. How old is the boy? He's pretty young. Do you want to see the poster right there? He's like, it is kind of doogie howzer thing. And then like there's like a

patient that's like hurt on the ground and then in every episode. Every episode, there's one patient hurt on the ground and the good doctor comes up and they're like, they're basically like, do it. And then he like uses his autism. I swear to God, this sounds like I'm being, but it's a sensitive subject, but he's autistic and he like thinks differently and he saves the patient. What's the significance of them being on the ground? Oh, just, that's just the one commercial I saw. I felt that you went to great pains to characterize this patient as being on the ground. Yeah. I was very specifically thinking of the one promo I saw. It's an emergency situation. It's an emergency situation and the good doctor.

But also why the good doctor or whatever. But yeah, that's that. It's like a general. It's like, oh, good, the good doctor. Yeah. It's like a general. Yeah, right. Elizabethan term or something. Victorian, like the good doctors. I feel like there's these phrases, these turns of phrases now that we don't even know where they came from. It's just sort of in this collage of culture. Sure. Yeah. Like the whole nine yards, you mean, it's just that they sort of idioms that we don't know the origin of. The whole nine yards is at least like, I know the meaning of that phrase. Sure. Oh, okay. I have no concept of the context for somebody saying the good doctor.

Yeah, right. I know that that's sort of like a lilt or a way of saying something, but I have no actual, I don't know what that's rooted in. I don't know when you'd say that. I mean, I feel like it's pretty literal, right? It's a capable physician. It's like a guy who's, you know, he's a medicine man who knows what he's doing. But it feels like, like, you know, very like manor house, like, oh, the good doctors. Oh, sure. Yeah. Right. Yeah, I don't know. But is that just my impression? No, I think you're right. I think you're right. Yeah. The good, speaking of the good, the good wife spinoff is called the good fight. So they were from the good wife to the good fight. Why is good fight and good doctor? Is

that, is this like a network thing where they think like the word good in the title makes people think that it's good or something? It could be maybe it's focused as well. A little trick. Yeah, I feel that they feel that it has a built in irony. Yeah. Oh, yeah. I don't even know. Anyway, this is now being, this is now called the good dough boy. Talk about irony. John, you're, you spent a lot of time in New York City and we're referencing this earlier and we're talking pizza this episode in all month long. I'm curious your general, I'm sure you're a man who's, who's consumed your share of slices. I'm curious your general partisanship towards pizza. What, like, what are your favorites? What are your personal favorites?

What are you looking for? Topping wise, crust wise. What's your go to pie? So I, I don't feel like I'm one of those like regional purist people. Yeah. Like I feel like pizza and burgers, I sort of like, you can't really have a bad, like I'm sort of comfortable with whatever. I grew up in New York. So I'm used to the sort of definitely not deep dish. I don't, it took me years to admit that I don't really love Chicago style deep dish. Cause it felt like there was such a like, you know, cultural, like, you know, it almost feels like being like, I don't like, you know, it feels like puffing their chest a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Just be like, I don't like Andy Warhol. It's like, just, you know, Xerox some fucking soup

cans on the thing. You have to say it's like amazing, but like, I don't love Andy Warhol. I think it's over referenced and it's like, yeah, it was an over reference at the time. But I will, I do have to say I don't love deep dish. It's too much. It's not something that if they said this, if they said this is not called pizza, it's called something else, eat it with a knife and fork and just eat like a little bit of it. That would make sense to me. Right. But the idea that you're supposed to consume it in the quantities of like pizza quantities, it's also always wet on the bottom. It's always soggy at the bottom of that dish. And I don't know why you'd want it that way. Right. It's wet. You're eating it and you're

going, this is good. Everyone's like, you have to try fucking Chicago fucks pizza. It's like, this is wet guys. This is fucking damp. I don't understand that. It's like eating a sponge. Right. But I also, I know I'm going to, I mean, like pizza, if I eat too much of it, I get sick anyways, but I know if I have deep dish, I'm going to be sick. I'm going to feel sick. Oh, you're going to feel sick. Honestly, there's probably nothing that is more guaranteed to make me feel sick than Chicago style pizza. I'm trying to think of something that's like consistently heavier and I think just the combination of it's got so much dairy and then just like so much starch. You're just, you're just putting so much bread and cheese

into your body. It always makes me feel like shit. Fried chicken, like KFC, like Popeyes, like that really oily greasy, like will always make me sick too. Yeah. I mean, that I can, that I can handle a little bit more. It might, might be the, you know, a relative absence of dairy, but I mean, but the amount of cheese that I think you're getting with that, that deep dish, I think is just, just so much for me. But so, so outside of, outside of your, you don't, you don't love the Chicago style, but what, what do you love pizza wise? So I like normal New York pizza, which is like, you know, the thinner crust. Yeah. And that's just sort of ubiquitous. I don't even think of that as like a type of pizza. That's just sort of like, you get it anywhere in New York. So that's

fine. And then I would always get, I would order Domino's because I grew up in the city. I don't know if there was a pizza hut in the city. I don't remember, I know that I remember ordering Papa John's as an adult, but I don't, I wasn't thinking of that as an option. Sure. I love hearing this that you were in New York city and you got Domino's because that makes sense. It should have, that it is a normal thing to happen. Yeah. But I think everyone like assumes if you live in New York city, you're like getting pizza from a better place constantly. Right. I love Domino's. I would have friends over, I would have sleepovers, my birthdays right near the Super Bowl. I have no interest in football, but like, I would like have friends over for a birthday party and

Super Bowl would be on. We'd get Domino's. I like the thin crust. The normal, the normal crust Domino's feels neutral to me. It's like normal. Thin crust I like. I like the crackeriness. Yeah. I like to get it with wings or kickers. And then you just sort of sop up and dip your dipping and sopping barbecue sauce. I like the barbecue wings, barbecue sauce, the blue, the ranch or the blue cheese. And I was saying this earlier, I don't know the difference between ranch or I don't know if you want me to do this material now. I do because eyes lit up when I said ranch and blue cheese. I said that this will specifically get some of our listeners angry, which I think is funny. When you're eating earlier, I was asking, is there a difference between ranch and blue cheese

other than like chunks of cheese? And I feel like it's so different from... Yeah, they're pretty similar. They're both cream based dressings. I would say maybe blue cheese is a little thicker in consistency generally. But yeah, those blue cheese chunks are the difference maker. I think if you just took those blue cheese chunks and dumped them in a bucket of ranch, you effectively have blue cheese dressing, right? That's pretty much it. Hey, I'm not taking your side on this either way because other people will be mad at that too. I mean, it's not an opinion. I'm curious to know what if the ingredients are different if you sift out the chunks of cheese. Sure. Yeah, I don't know. I honestly don't know. I mean, I can look it up. There's some blue cheese, could you?

Yeah, I'll look it up. There's some blue cheese that you get that don't have big chunks of cheese and you're going, well, really, what is the difference? We had a cheese day in my elementary school. I went to Wallaceon Elementary School. We had a cheese day and I brought in blue cheese and I got made fun of because it was like the moldy cheese and everyone was like, you brought in like the mold cheese and I was like, seen as a weirdo. They brought in like brie and all this other stuff. Brie's terrible, by the way. Brie's like bitter. I don't like brie. I'm not a huge brie guy. I like it okay, but I don't love it. Cheddar. It's soft. Cheddar. Cheddar is better. Havarti. Havarti's a party. Jack. Jack's not whack. Oh, god.

So, yeah, I would get that Domino's I liked. I may have said this on the last podcast. I can't remember, but when I lived with roommates, I'm not going to name them because I don't know how I would name them, but I don't want to out them for being pigs like me. But we would get that Domino's had the it was a medium thin crust. It was some coupon. It was like a medium thin crust pizza with two toppings and 10 wings for like 12.99. We never calculated it. I don't even know if that was a deal. Right. Like that doesn't it didn't seem like I don't know. Maybe the coupon ended up charging you more money. Call up and always be like, I have a coupon here. Whatever. But we would each invoke the coupon. We would each get our own

thin crust medium two topping and 10 wings or kickers. And then we would split a two-liter bottle of Coke. And that would be like one single meal. Like there would not be leftovers. I like that. And this was before Domino's actually offered barbecue sauce on the side, as far as I remember. Now you get the barbecue sauce on the side, you can you can dip in that. This is like stopping in the aluminum foil. Right. The wings would always like stick to the aluminum. You'd be like picking aluminum foil off of the wings or like eating aluminum foil. God, that was kind of a gross. That was the I ate a lot of Domino's buffalo wings, but it feels like they're slimy. They're they're so slimy. I was going to say,

you have a problem with the wet deep dish. These are the these are the they can feel like the wettest things on earth. Yeah. Oh, I had moments eating like they're being super high and eating Domino's wings and being like, is this a bug? Like this this is what this is what like eating a giant roach would be like. I really like gross myself out, but I always powered through it. I never I've never been like, oh, I can't eat this. Right. Sometimes the bones would be broken and like marrow shards would be there. Yeah. Yeah. When the bone is broken, it just seems it just feels I feel bad for the poor bird. I mean, I feel bad for the bird anyways, but

it's a brutal food to eat. I mean, you're really like understanding like, oh, the all the lives that were lost so that I could enjoy this bounty like this many chickens were all were killed and dismembered. Yeah. And their remains were deep fried and dipped in sauce. All right. So while while while we were hearing your segue, yeah, while we were hearing your your your your old order and while Mitch was doing a list of first order, a list of cheese buns, I looked up the ranch dressing recipe and a in a blue cheese dressing recipe. These are both from Genius Kitchen. So I assume they're similar in terms of it's the same source. So we're controlling for that variable at least. So here's the here's the ranch dressing recipe. One cup mayo. Oh, speaking

of my language, one cup buttermilk gross two teaspoons dried parsley, one teaspoon onion powder, half teaspoon garlic powder, kosher salt, pepper and a dash of dill, blue cheese, no cheese, no cheese in there. No cheese in that one. Yeah. Yeah. Onion powder and garlic powder seem like seem great. They seem like a thing that that brings a lot of stuff together. Don't you think? Yeah, they're good. They're good versatile spices. Yeah. Use them a lot. Use them a lot of recipes. Okay, so yes, Mitch, I agree. They're good spices. John was staring at me as I was saying. There's a lot of times where you say stuff where I'm like, am I do I am I missing a context here?

Is there a reason for this interjection? Am I late to some party about is this a running thing? Powder? The powders are not a running thing. This is new today. Right. I like garlic and onion. I think we don't appreciate them enough. The dip. Oh, that dip. Oh, yeah. The garlic and onion dip. Oh, yeah. That's that's one of the things I've been thinking about that a lot lately. That's one of the best. I want people people say, what should I bring to a part of the, you know, like a Super Bowl party. And I always tell them to bring like an onion, I got like an onion dip or yeah, like any sort of dip. Yeah, like a Lipton, fucking. Yeah. Yes. It's a great classic dip. You just get that dried mix. You throw in some,

some sour cream and some mayo or whatever those the base ingredients are. And yeah, it comes in store. Like I remember being a kid, it was that dip and they would make a punch with like Sprite and Sherbert. Yeah. Oh yeah. And like they don't do that. Everything now is like organic watered down. Like, I don't want to, I'm not trying to be like Tim Allen or anything. But yeah, I fucking, it was like, I feel like you had, you had it back then. Yeah. Things have gotten to the point, you know, we're kind of in this, this craft cocktail and, you know, a farm to table era where you're seeing a lot of things that are muddled and a lot of things that are, you know, freshly prepared. But sometimes those old, like there is a nostalgia attached to those,

those just like shitty taken two things and then mixing them together. That old school likes, like family get together a table spread. Yeah. I want to say that, do you know the show Kevin can wait? I'm going to say it because why not? There's two writer's rooms. Oh, I've heard this rumor. That there's a Trump writer's room and a non-Trump writer's room and the can wait show. Yeah. Apparently they split the staff have different partisan allegiances and they've split into different camps. They can't even work together anymore. Which room does Kevin go into? That's, that's the big question. I heard the Trump room that he's a, that the Trump room is like his guys. Makes sense. Yeah. And then there's,

there's like a green party room too. Right. There's this one, one hold out, one hold out Jill Stein supporter. It just inserts typos. So the, so the money from the same fucking people. So the blue cheese recipe also mayonnaise, I'll give the proportions. Wow. Third cup mayonnaise, third cup sour cream instead of, in lieu of the buttermilk, a tablespoon of lemon juice, cracked black pepper, salt, and then a third cup blue cheese crumbles. So I think John, your theory is pretty sound. I mean, there's a couple of alterations. There's certainly less spices in the blue cheese. What is the, this is just a random recipe that I'm looking at. Genius Kitchen. So this is Genius Kitchen's homemade ranch, ranch dressing and blue cheese

dressing. You know what? I don't like this place based on the name. What do you want me to look at? Genius Kitchen. Should you type in diff, tween, ranch, and blue? No, I didn't. I mean, I can do just that, that search. You would that search exactly, please. Diff, diff, diff, tween, diff, tween, ranch, and blue, diff, tween, ranch, and blue. All right, let's see. He's on the dark web now. Okay. I've got a, I'm on it. I'm just, I'm at the tween ranch. 30 seconds before they get your location. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, the tween ranch. That would have popped up in your history. This is, okay, I'm going to ask culinary subreddit. You have to bounce your IP off of a

server farm and Honduras. Commenter Chef Guru writes, this is the top up voted comment. As far as them being totally different dressings, they have or can have a similar base. Although a lot of ranch dressings will have buttermilk added to them. Well, that's not as often an ingredient blue cheese dressing. So buttermilk seems like one difference. Buttermilk versus sour cream. Yeah. Once you have the base, blue cheese dressing basically just has blue cheese added to it, but ranch has a whole set of other spices added to it. That's where Mitch's onion powder and garlic powder come in. So genius kitchen was, was, was a fair representation? Yeah, I guess so. Yeah.

I hope Chef Guru sues your ass for ranch. His comments without his permission. There's also, I mean, I can look at the Yahoo Answers one, too. You guys, you guys hold your own personal liability on the podcast. It is both of you. It's individual liability. Nick would sign off for that in a second. All right. I lost my other window here. So we've got the, so this week we're, we're taking on something you didn't hear before the computers. What? I lost my other window here. Right. What scenario would that have got? I mean, you have, maybe if a hurricane was blowing through your house and one window is blown out and then you blew out the other one,

that might be the only contact. You need to be talking about a window of opportunity. That's true. Could be talking about that metaphorically. So we're talking about, we're talking little Caesars versus Papa Johns. And, and I think you were saying that Papa Johns was never really a calculation for you, uh, Gemberling, but was little Caesars ever something that, that you came across? The first time I remember having Papa Johns, I was in my 20s and somebody was doing a web shoot and like bought pizza for us. And I remember this because I remember being like pleasantly shocked by the pepper and the garlic butter sauce that came with it, which Domino's was only what, you know, you got what you ordered. They didn't throw any extra

garnishes. Yeah. It wasn't innovation. When you get those pepper and Chinese and that, that garlic dipping sauce, that was a new thing. Yeah. So that's my first memory of Papa Johns. That same thing happened in college. My freshman year was the first time. So crazy that you had the same experience. My freshman year, and this is about as experimental as I got in college. I got my freshman year, I got, uh, the pepper Chini and the garlic sauce. And I thought it was a crazy cool thing. I'd never seen that before. It was, and it was great, but go on. I'm sorry for my interjection. I just want to say that I had, I did have that same experience. Little Caesars. I, I don't have any memory of ever having little Caesars.

Wow. I remember the ads, but I don't know that I've had it. This is my very kid. I don't know. So this may very well have been your first experience. Yes. So I would say the, for me, I have had, I used to, I also was getting Papa Johns a lot in college. I would say I was in a roommate situation where that was just kind of the go-to pizza order for a while. I don't know why that was. They must, they must, I mean that there's, I'm sure Domino's the same way, but they must have like places near campuses or they must do a good job with that sort of stuff. Right. That, yeah, that may be part of this, just their franchise locations. Which every, which every franchise does, I guess, but, but I think it was like one of the, I feel

like it was one of the more convenient ones to get or something. But also we're, you know, the three of us are similar enough in age where it might have been like just that was the generic, like that was the time when the papa push. Yeah. I wonder, because I wonder if that's when he was really expanding and that's when like the marketing was kind of blowing up and that's when they were really like sort of, it was kind of a new thing, right? Like we, we all kind of had that experience of being like, oh, this is, this is a thing I haven't tried before. I don't like the papa push because it makes me think it's something Papa John himself says. Papa push. I mean, my, my pop, my first memory Papa John's experience I would put in like

2004 or five, like that long ago. Yeah. Mine was 2002, 2000, 2001, 2002. Yeah. I think I'm roughly on the same ballpark there. So maybe that was, maybe that is when he hit the scene. Yeah. The papa push. The towers came down and he was like, it's time, it's Papa John's time to shine. Time for Papa to push. Papa push. So is he shitting or fucking? I think he, I think it could be as in either scenario. Okay. Yeah. I mean, I was thinking shitting, but yeah, you could, you could repurpose it. I don't like to think of that guy fucking. I mean, it's happened. Do you think he wears his apron? Does he wear the apron in the commercials? Yeah, he does. Oh, he's always wearing that

apron. Okay. And that red shirt. So I think it's rock on direction. Rock on. Rock on. It's like in devil fingers, dick. Nothing's more metal than having an erection. I was gonna, well, as a fan of Domino's, Nick, I can say this. Yes. Domino's has won the, won the first round between Domino's and Pizza Hut. Right. I thought you'd be very excited about that. I am. I mean, I also Pizza Hut, I feel like we just didn't have it in the city. I feel like whatever, in New York city, I don't remember there being a Pizza Hut or a little Caesars. I'm sure there were Papa John's, but I wasn't, it wasn't, you know, doing a good enough marketing job, I guess. That makes sense to me. Just be thinking of what Pizza Huts used to be,

and they were the standalone stores with the buffet. Yeah. I always thought of a Pizza Hut being like a suburban. Yeah. Right. Yeah. That makes a lot of sense because, yeah, you're right. It was a parlor concept originally to Mitch's point. And so, yeah, they had a lot of the Pizza Huts in my town, at least, were like the round table was the other one where it was just like this gigantic amount of. The Pizza Hut roof. The roof. Yeah. The giant roof. The giant angled roof. And they had a... You can't do that in New York City. You can't. Yeah. There's not enough real estate. So, yeah, that goes, I guess, dates back to being a parlor concept where people would go and dine in, and then when they eventually became these sort of kiosk storefronts that just did

carry out and delivery, then, yeah, that was years later. I don't think I had Pizza Hut really until I came out. I feel like I have a memory of coming out here for like a pilot season and just wandering into a strip mall and being like, oh, look at this. That's an audition followed by Pizza Hut seems like. Well, when you live in New York, when you're like subletting for pilot season, like away from your wife or girlfriend or whatever, that was just like stress, depression, and strip mall, whatever the fuck, in like whatever like, you know, seller house you're renting. I saw John at an audition. I won't say what the audition was, but Kevin can wait. It was, it was Kevin can wait to ask.

And we could cut this out, but you made me laugh so much. And you, because I would, you know, like studying for these lines, and then you came in and you're like, this is a piece. And then you started doing the lines of the audition, but you threw in like, I'm going to suck my own. I get these waiting rooms cooking sometimes. I was laughing so much and I was not very much like what I feel like. I'm pretty sure the people in the audition room heard you saying I feel like if they hear it, but don't know exactly who said it. That's where I want to be, right, because they should know it. Yeah, it was a room of husky bearded men that they walked out to and it could have been anybody. It made me laugh very much and

it very much helped me. It was a great, it was a great moment for a bad, for what a bad, a brad process. It's a bad process. It was a brad process. It's a brad process. Do you guys bump into each other at auditions, a fair amount? Occasionally. Time to time. Yeah. I was like, because you guys kind of like you and I feel like we've had this discussion with Gabriel before. Yeah, you guys are up for similar. Nick Mundy sometimes. Gabriel's always, Gabriel sees you at a lot, I feel like. He says he always sees your name on the sign in. Yeah. There's only so many things for husky bearded guys, I feel like. There's only a few. But they slot us into the ranges, too. Yeah. I never feel comfortable with that. Wait, what does that mean? What do you mean?

Well, we go out for roles that are either like, he's a big cuddly fat guy. Okay. Or roles that are like, he's a hacker or something that like, oh, gotcha. He could be a grungy fat guy. He could be a grungy skinny guy. He could be a thin black guy. Sure. We're either, it's either all fat guys or just a grab bag. Yeah, everyone on earth, which is, then you're like, oh, I won't get it. They didn't know what they wanted. They're asking everybody to come in. Mitch, you've gone out for hacker roles. I just went out for a hacker role just recently. Well, a tracker. It was, I forget that it was a whiskey something. Whiskey Cavalier. Whiskey Cavalier. I went out for, I went out for the hacker man. Yeah. And I was like, it was an NSA. Well, I don't want to give

anything away. Sure. He's like a Snowden. Right. And I was like, damn it, man. I don't know. I don't know anything else. Like it was like tied to a chair. Yeah, I go being interrogated. Yeah. Yeah. For like your hacking knowledge. I go out for auditions. What the fuck is this? It seems pretty far afield for what I know of you. I mean, you're a capable actor. Yeah. I pretend to be smarter than I am a capable actor. Wow. What a compliment. You're a very good at. You're a very talented actor. Capable doesn't mean mediocre. It means good. You're a very talented actor. I suppose. Does capable mean good? Yeah, it does. You're capable. Okay. Capable is a compliment. It's a compliment. All right. All right. Fine. I thought I meant like you can just,

you can do the job. That's adequate. Yeah. Okay. Adequate. Okay. Yeah. Capable. Like, you're like, like, oh yeah, this guy's, we're in good hands. You got a capable pilot. You're, you're doing well. I mean, it's still just not a great compliment. You're a very good actor. I've amended it. Keep going. You're a very talented actor. That's right. You wouldn't describe Tina Turner as a capable singer. Yeah, sure. She's like, you know, but I mean, don't get greedy. Yeah, but he makes you take, taking capable and randomly. Ask yourself this, how much work have you put into studying the craft of acting? Okay. I've read the book or two. I spent all my time here at UCB, which they make you think is some

sort of acting school. Right. Yeah. Do you think, Mitch, you think you know more about Stanislavski or about Donkey Kong's family tree? Well, I think to be fair, you know more about Donkey Kong's family tree than almost any subject. That's true. And who cares? I would rather know about Donkey Kong's family tree. You can pull that stuff out. Talk about Cranky or Funky. Cranky's dead wife, Wrinkly Kong. Wrinkly Kong. Diddy Kong, of course. Yeah. Who's a ghost, though? She died in between two of the games. They didn't explain it. She was alive one game, and then she comes back the next when she's a ghost. So Cranky's just mourning his dead wife. Yeah. No wonder why he's Cranky. Yeah, I'd be Cranky too. My wife died and no one told me how.

Of course, everything else in the Donkey Kong universe made perfect. Hey, you know, we were talking games earlier, actually, that before, before we get back into pizza, what are you? Hey, what goes better with than pizza and video games? No, this is what I was going to say, because I feel like a greasy controller. Yes, that's what I was going to say. I feel like pizza is not a great gaming food. You're wrong, Mitch. No way. Yeah, and gambling as because you're something of a you're something of a gamer yourself. Like what do you eat when you've got some sort of gaming sesh going? I always find myself I feel like I need to have to have a utensil of I'm going to eat something, maybe a sandwich, but it's it's tough. I feel

like I don't want them greasy hands. Also, he has a child. Two children. Yeah, two children. Sorry. I don't eat. Yeah, I don't I don't really actively eat while I'm playing. Got it. I like to watch something if I'm eating. Got it. And also my schedule is like, you know, put the kids to bed, you know, like have dinner with the kids, put the kids to bed, get high and play video games. And then right before I fall asleep, like graze through the pantry. Don't brush my teeth and then fall asleep. Nick is as fatherless men. Yes. What do you think? And probably forever, we probably won't have children. Yeah. I mean, at this point, yeah, it feels unlikely. What what do you we have? We both have low tea. We have low tea.

Probably a very low sperm count. Oh, yeah. How'd you guys find out you have low tea? I mean, we can just tell just Oh, if we both have like facial hair and stuff. Yeah, I guess so. I mean, I never shave. I don't know. I feel like I've got I feel like we're we're prototypical low team and I think for sure. Both sort of aggressive and bitchy. I think that's the show that does that to us. Right. I'm not like this until Nick brings up some weird beef. That's not real. I'm gonna have to keep saying that because it's not real. Okay, that's fine. You and Ferguson are best friends. I want. I want to say what I want to say, but I can't say it on air about. Do you want to say something about me? No, about Dave Ferguson. No, not about Ferguson. You fool.

All right. All right. Anyways, this about someone involved at the birthday boys. You suck. Anyways, as a father fatherless man, yes, what do you what? So what do you eat with your with your gaming controller? What's your go to? Well, here's I would say I when Gamerling was was saying like he likes to watch something. I realized I kind of had the same revelation like it's rare when I'm playing I'm actually playing and eating at the same time. That was more of like a kid experience for me. I think like as an adult. Yeah. Oh, like, okay, I've got to eat eat something. I'm going to pause this game and I'm go do that and then I'll return to the game and maybe I'll wash my hands in between. So I guess I guess maybe like if I just want a quick snack, maybe like

a string cheese or something. I think a string cheese is probably my go to it in the wrapper. Yeah, I can kind of keep it mostly in the wrapper and just sort of nibble it a nibble it bit by bit. That's like a five year old. This is that sucks. Adults have cream cheese. Adults have string cheese. So much string cheese. I eat like one string cheese a day. That's a reasonable amount. It's a good snack. It's like low carb. You can dissect it. No, you wish you could do. No, I don't pull it apart. I'm saying yeah. Yeah, I know you know in chunks. Yeah, eat it in chunks. No, you're you're saying like like one of the like a serial killer like someone like a site like a sign of a psychopath is that he dismembers animals. No, I don't like to do that

with my string cheese. So you just you. What do you do? You just I just eat it. I just eat it by by by. That's even weirder. We've talked about this before but it's weird that you just eat it like that. Yeah, string cheese is for pulling. Well, I agree that I I I enjoy eating the the ribbons of it. Yeah, sure. There's there is something sort of gross about taking a big bite and like chewing a chunk of cheese like that. Yeah. But also you just can't you're not always in a position to peel ribbons off of it. That's true. It gets under your fingernails. Yeah. Sort of like sometimes it just like you just get like a quarter inch of it and then it you know withers into you know it comes off too

early. Right. But I like the texture of it when it is peeled a little bit. No, that's true. I think the texture is preferable. Yeah. Yeah, I think I just think for convenience is an efficiency's sake. I'll just take bites of it. It's just usually one bite, right? You push the whole thing on your throat. We'll take a break. We'll be back with more Doe Boys. Hey guys, this episode of Doe Boys is brought to you by Burrow. Handcrafted in the USA, Burrow makes luxury couches for real life. Mitch, you and I both got Burrow couches. That's right. We got two cedars. I got one in the brick red color. Yours is more of a is it a top or a beige? How would you turn it? It's a beige. Yeah, both very easy on the eyes. They've got this great

sort of timeless style to them. They're nice and and cushy. Easy to assemble, I'd say. Very easy to assemble. Don't need any tools at all. It takes like 15 minutes. Right. And it was right. It did take that. It didn't take that long. Nick, you and I aren't hammer and nail type of guys. We're not handymen. We're not carpenters. No, no. We're not steel workers. So yeah, even for guys like us, no tools, no tears, no broken nails, no tools are required to assemble this thing. And hey, this is great for our listeners. Burrow couches are stain resistant. So you can have your hot dog and eat it too. You can eat a burger on there or be sipping on a brew dog. Spill some on there. No must know fuss. That would just great for you. You spill everything.

I do. I'm a wild spiller. And Mitch, hey, it's great for the cats too. You want to snuggle up with the Wally and Irma on your Burrow? This Burrow is in my office. I got a nice little place where I go in there. I'll read something. I'll look at lines. Well, you don't think I'd read anything. What Mario 64 strategy guy? I'll read lines for an audition or I'll be reading and writing something and the cats will come up there. They'll snuggle the cat. My cats are loving it. They'll come up there and they'll snuggle up on the lap my lap with me. And then there's also a phone charger in there. I'll sit in there and look at my phone. Yeah. Charging from the couch. It's great built in USB charger. A great feature. Everything is customizable. Pick

your size, color and armrest height to get the couch. That's perfect for you. Armrest heist. Look, don't heist these armrests. Need them for your couch. Enjoy 30 days of cozy on your Burrow risk free. And if for any reason you choose not to keep it, the return process is simple. Go try a Burrow couch for yourself. Order today and it will ship in just one week. Use the promo code DOEBOYS at burrow.com to get $50 off your order. That's burrow.com, burrow.com, offer code DOEBOYS in all caps. Do it. Welcome back to DOEBOYS. We're here with John Gemberling, Little Caesars versus Papa Johns. Mitch, we had a little incident. You ordered the Little Caesars and I was, I went to pick it up on

my way to your apartment. You said to me, I was ordering the Papa Johns. Yes. And then you said, can you please order the Little Caesars? We discussed this last night. I said it would be easier because I was going to be on the road. It would be easier if you could order the Little Caesars and I can still pick it up. I can pick it up for you because you didn't want to leave your house because you're a shut in. Hold on a second. Why am I in charge of getting both of the pizzas? I said it would be easier because I was going to be driving. Don't they deliver? Don't both of them deliver? No, Little Caesars does not deliver. It doesn't deliver under any circumstances. It won't deliver. No, you could postmate it, which we could have done.

Little Caesars does not deliver pizza? No. Yeah, it's carry out only. Did they never? I don't think they've ever really, I mean, they may have experimented with it at some point, but it's... How do they stay competitive with the other... Their prices are so low. They're just like... They're a lot cheaper than the other ones. You can get a hot and ready pizza, a large pizza that you could feed a family with for five dollars. Oh, I know who you can feed with a big pizza. Wait, I'm a shut in because we do the podcast at my house and you come to me. Yeah, I was saying like you... I offered to pick it up and I said it would make it easier

because I was going to be driving because I live on the other side of town if you place the order. So anyway, so you... So I put the orders in for both pizzas. Is this a paying for it thing? Like you don't want to have to like work out the money. We put it on... We have a... This is you making an extra phone call. This is me making an extra phone call. Yeah, okay. Obviously rooted in history though. Yeah, but he's very much being like... There's an issue situation today. You could have called it in yourself. You would have known which goddamn little Caesars you're going to. I was gonna... This wasn't gonna be... This didn't have to be a confrontation. I was just going to say... I thought I was gonna say it was

like a cute story because it was like a misunderstanding. You said it was the Little Caesars on Vermont. Yes. Right next to Santa Monica Boulevard. Right. There are two Little Caesars on Vermont. That's right. I went to the wrong one. You went to the one not next to Santa Monica Boulevard. It was very close to Santa Monica Boulevard. How far away was it? A four-minute drive. That's not that close. It's pretty close. It's close enough. It was on the same block next to Santa Monica Boulevard. Now, how hard would it be to just deal in actual addresses? Like you're looking up on your phone, right? Why not just send him the address or something? That's true. I said it was right next to... I said it was right next to the Santa Monica

Boulevard. You know what? I'm gonna look at our texts. See, this is a society... This is a sort of society-wide issue that I have, which is there seems to be not a good agreement on what it takes to coordinate a plan over text or over the phone. I'm somebody that... I'm a little OCD. I like to double-check things. I like to be thorough. That's annoying to people because I take a little longer to do things and my standards of thoroughness can be overbearing to people. But if I'm making it... Were you guys speaking on the phone or were you just... We were texting. Just texting. Okay. So if I'm making a plan over text and I need somebody else to achieve something in a plan, I'm going to want to furnish them with every single detail that

will make it easy because there's nothing harder and more tedious than having to go back and forth over text about a simple detail. Tell me about it. I was getting the pizza for everybody. I was getting the Papa John's pizza, cleaning up the place so people could come here as presentable. I said, Weigar, there's one on Vermont. Cleaning up... Is that why your boxed Captain Phasma bottlehead is displayed? That's like fun stuff. Like how Marin has some sort of thing in his fridge. I couldn't even think of a thing that Marin would have. Weigar, there's one on Vermont that's only eight minutes away. It's like half a block south of Santa Monica.

And you said Weigar at the top of that. That was not to indicate that I was speaking. That's what you said at the top. That's what I said to you. Weigar. That's an example of, I would say, incomplete communication on your part. There's one of Vermont that's only eight minutes away from my house. It's like a half a block south of Santa Monica. I gave him the block. You added now, away from your house was not in... No, I'm saying, I didn't say from house. Eight minutes away. Yes. Where would that be? Eight minutes away from the one on Santa Monica? That's probably true. Okay. I was heading to the one on Santa Monica. I was doing you a favor. I know you were. I was saying, I wasn't even mad at you. I was just saying that there was some

confusion because there happened to be two different little seizures on Vermont within one mile. There were one mile, literally a mile away from each other. I know, but you didn't go to the one that was on the block. You fucked up. I don't know why this has to be a scribing blame because also, Gemberling's right that you could have just sent me the address. Well, you know who else is right? Mitch is right. You could have picked, you could have called it in yourself. Here's the other thing. You didn't put a name for the order. They didn't ask me for a name. Okay. You knew what we got? We discussed what we were getting. I know. I did, when I went into the one of the wrong Vermont and I said, I said, they were like, what's the name on the order?

And I hadn't gotten your text yet that there's no name on the order. So this, I'm at the wrong little seizures and I said, like, is there something for a mic or a Michael or maybe a Mitch? Or what's the cross street? You have like eight names. You haven't decided. This, this is, it's like Vermont and Beverly. It's like pretty. That's fucking far away. That's not that far from Santa Monica. Yes, it is. It's not that far. It's literally far as hell. It's literally one mile away. John, you shouldn't have sided with Weiger. You broke my heart. I am not fully sided with, well, I think, I think Weiger didn't pay full attention to the instructions that he was given. That's fair. And didn't adequately assess that he was being given a compromised instructions

or incomplete instructions. But I have something else to say about this too. The original little seizures that he was going to was on Santa Monica Boulevard. Yes. Very close to the other one. But I'm coming from Santa Monica, the city. So I'm going, taking the 10 freeway. So I'm coming up north. So I put in Vermont. I put in, I literally was driving and typing in with one finger little seizures. See, you are mad at this little fucker. I'm not mad about this. But anyway, so here I go to this. See, if I'm you, I say, can you send me a pin, send me the address so I can just hit that and the phone will go there. You're right. I don't know what your history of coordinating plans is, but I, if I have a history of coordinating plans with somebody and I know that they tend to have

a certain deficiency in making plans, then I'm, you know, it is incumbent upon me to go. I, knowing your shortfalls, I'm going to have to give you some prodding to get the information that's going to help me. That's fair. I should have, I should have asked for the address and the same way when someone sends me and Mitch an email, I will take a screenshot of it and text it to Mitch, because I know he does not check his email. Yes. I don't have to look at that. I don't give a shit about these things. All right. So, uh, but anyway, so I went to this little seizures. This is what, this is where I was going with the story. The button on the story is that they were like, Oh, we have an order for Mario. And I thought you'd left me a little Easter egg knowing we're

both Nintendo fan boys. You should have gotten the Mario order. I was like, I don't order for Mario. That's cute. But then by that, you know what? This just shows how obvious I would give you a fucking Easter egg. You're fucking, I'd rather throw rotten egg in your face. All right. Well, you know what? Next time I order something, I will put it under Mario. That's cute. Put it under Lakitu. Making a real egg. Uh, Nick, the eggs. Yes, birdie birdie to the eggs. Look, I was, I was trying to help out. I ordered both of the pizzas. You did help out. I didn't mean to get you to the wrong fucking place. No, it was, I wasn't even mad about it. I wasn't even mad about it. People think you do everything

for this podcast and it's bullshit. We both put in work. Yes. Oh, we both put it. We do. You order food. It'd be, we have things at your place. That's very nice of you to host. You booked guests. You got Gemberling for the show. That was great of you. That is true. Gemberling is a great guest. I got Claudia for the last one. You contribute a lot. Thank you. All right. Turning from very hard once you get in these spirals of, of inadequacy, uh, uh, because, you know, somebody always has to be underperforming. Someone's always, you know, overperforming. And then even, and then you have these scorecards of, you know, how can we, how can we even the score, you know, it sort of mirrors what we're trying to do societally with all these, uh, you know, imbalances, gender and racial. Right.

It takes a lot of time to sort of get everybody's headspace out of this inequality thing. But, you know, it doesn't sound like Mitch is helping all the time. I'm not helping as much as, as Nick, I'm not helping as Nick, as much as Nick wants me to help maybe. You're doing great. We're having fun. You are a type A personality. I don't think that's true. Yeah. Oh my God. What? You don't think you're a type A? What? Like someone who's like a kind of a very controlling person. Yes. That's different than alpha though, right? Yeah. I think that's different for me. I'm certainly not an alpha. Evan Susser would agree with me. Okay. I don't think, I, I don't know. We have a, Doe Boy's war room text chain. Yes. We both have faults. Right. There's some stuff that I never

agreed to do. There's some stuff that I don't need, that we both don't need to do if we figured things out and we could have it solved easily. Yes. And I know that I'm being cryptic here, but he gets what I'm saying. You're speaking to Susser now? No. Is this you sending a coded message to Susser? No. You get exactly what I'm saying. Okay. That we could do something to make this easier for us if we wanted to, but we don't, we haven't. Yes. And then, and then which is ending the podcast. We're different types, but I love Nick. I love you, Nick. I love you too, buddy. I order these pizzas. I try to do what you want me to do. Yeah, I don't look at emails a lot. You know that. I don't, but a lot of these shows, like they'll

be like, do you want to come and do this show with this thing? I'm like, no, I don't want to come and do it. So I don't look, I don't, I don't respond a lot of the time. I'm bad with responding to stuff. It's hard and it's hard. It's the, you get, there's a lot of emails every day. I don't respond every day. You're a guy who sends a screen grab of the email within two minutes of receiving the email. I don't think it's always that quickly. It is that quickly. I want to go back through the text and see the times. Anyways, I love you, Nick. We love each other. We do. I didn't, again, this is, I didn't even begin this anecdote from a point of conflict. I was just saying it was a funny thing that I thought happened. Let's get to, let's get to the, let's get to

something more important. Let's get to the actual little Caesar, little Caesar, little Caesar himself versus Papa John mascot wise. Yes. That's what I wanted to talk about. Little Caesar's a better mascot. The Toga wearing cartoon character says pizza pizza. He has pizzas on a, on a spear. I agree with that. 100% was better than Papa John. He had a mascot. I mean, can he be, he has, I mean, he's figurehead. He's in the style, I think, feel like of Dave from Wendy's. He's like the owner, the CEO mascot is kind of like, it's like the player. Wendy was the mascot. I guess so. Yeah. So it kind of, CEO, that's true. Your mascot is not, mascot is not the right word. CEO spokesperson, kind of like the player coach of, of coaches of the NBA of old.

Um, yeah. I mean, like, like, I feel like there are other people in that category. Is anybody aware of the origins of the little Caesar mascot? It feels like a bizarre, I mean, there was the noid. There's a lot of bizarre pizza related. There's, there's a lot of bizarre stuff, period in the 80s, mascot wise. But I don't know how you come up with the concept of a smaller version of the Emperor Caesar and his only utterance is pizza pizza. Right. I think, I think the pizza pizza thing, I think I can explain. Really? Cause you'd be like, well, we're crossing the pizza con or like some kind of like, you know, it's a pizza for it. Or like two salami or pepper. I don't know. It does seem like,

I don't know why you'd say salami, but well, I think Dave, I'm sure they have salami. Do they have salami? Well, maybe I guess we'll be pepperoni. I don't think so. But, but uh, but it is weird that he only seems to say pizza pizza or he says meets a meets at one point. Yeah. He has a kind of like, it's a variant on pizza pizza, I think. And it's like a very like pizza pizza. Like it's a weird voice. Right. It's like a Muppety voice. And then also, here's where I think the pizza pizza comes from though. I think it came from a two pizza deal. That's exactly what it was. Yeah. Yeah. It was the idea. You get, you get two pizzas basically for the price of one for it because they're, they're so, they're such a cost effective chain.

So pizza pizza must have come around in what the early nineties or something. But the noise was also non-verbal, right? It was like, or barely verbal. He just sort of giggled and yeah, he was like, yeah, he kind of like made, he kind of little, just made a little noises. What was he like again? It's like, I bought, I had the Noid Nintendo game. Do you guys remember that? Right. Yes. I do remember that. It was like pizza time or something. Yeah. Yeah. There was a, there was a Noid game. There's a cool spot game and there's a Dreamcast game, Pepsi Man. The cool spot game was good. Cool spot games. Pretty good. It was cool spot. It was like the seven up the dot. Was that a Super Nintendo game? Yeah. It was pretty playable. Yeah. It was

a Super Nintendo game. It was good. He shot stars out of his fingers or maybe bubbles. Yeah. I don't remember exactly. It was good though. Yeah. It was elastic somehow. Wasn't he like yeah, you can kind of move on. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then as far as Little Caesar, the like where that came from, the pizza pizza origin is a little bit more understood. It's the Little Caesar himself. Like I guess the Little Caesar is what I'd read is that Little Caesar was a nickname that the founder's wife had given him for some reason. And so that's why they called it Little Caesar's Pizza. Oh, that's funny. So I guess they probably just took from that to then they just were like had a very literal interpretation of that to make their cartoon

mascot. But we got to get into the tournament for the pizza for the yeah, for the sake of time. So to recap the rules real quick. We should break down our relationship more. Recap the rules. Pizza only, side stay on the sidelines, drinks are in the Gatorade jug, also on the sidelines, level playing field, take out versus take out, dine in versus dine in. We took out today. And then from each chain, we will sample one cheese pizza on default crust and one wild card pizza. So today we had the the classic cheese from Little Caesar's and then just the cheese pizza from Papa John's. And then the our wild card pizza was a deep dish meat lovers. So we had the deep dish three meat treat from Little Caesar's and the meats on pan crust

from Papa John's. The three meat treat includes pepperoni, Italian sausage, bacon, that's from Little Caesar's from Papa John's. We you get more meats, you get pepperoni, sausage, beef, bacon, and Canadian bacon. So let's get into these pizzas. Gemberling, what were your initial impressions biting into these? I would say this is the first time hearing of the extra meats on the Papa John's. From sight and taste and texture, it felt equivalent. Sure. The amount and types of meat. They kind of throw more cheese on top with the Papa John's. I feel like the toppings are a little bit more buried by a cheese layer. That's possible. They both offered the butter. I know, I don't know if we're getting into this. Oh, yes, garlic butter, buttery garlic Caesar dip from Little Caesar's

and the default garlic cheese dip and sauce and Papa John's or garlic butter dip and sauce rather. The Little Caesar's felt more yellow and chemically to me a little more viscous. Yeah. I think my preference there is the Little Caesar's or is the Papa John's sauce. Although we did open one of the Papa John's sauces that was entirely congealed and solid almost like a butter. Yeah, it was gross. We did not eat that. We should have spread it onto our slices. Yes, we should have spread it onto seven grain Ezekiel bread. I made a healthy choice of it. The basic cheese felt equivalent to me.

I'd agree with you. They were both very, very, just very, very generic baseline cheese pizzas. Yeah. And the, I mean, are we saying preferences now? So we have a preferenceless impressions? So we've gotten the mascot preference out of the way, but we're ranking it out on a scale of one to 10 college scholarships to play basketball. These are the rules that were made up last time. Zero to 10. Was that? Zero to 10, I think. Zero to 10 college scholarships. And there is some significance to college scholarships? The connection is the March Madness basketball tournament. And our guest, Claudia, had taken that, taken from that because our tournament is much bad as she made the connection of making it a college basketball

scholarship based rating system. And we're, and we're ranking it. It's just a placeholder for stars. Yeah, I could, I mean, you could substitute whatever in your head, I guess, if you wanted, but it's a quantity of things. It's a quantity. Yeah. It's just, I could have, I could have no, nothing associated with it. It could be just from zero to 10. Whatever makes it work best for you. And then there's, here's, here are the categories. Cheese, sauce, dough, toppings, overall. And then the last one was the X factor. X factor. I thought we had seven categories. Do we only have six? I feel like we did have seven categories. X factor and overall. Do we have, hold on. Shoot. We also had a crust. Oh, dough and crust.

Just crust. Kind of look at the categories. Stephen, our engineer is holding up his laptop for Mitch. Appearance. Appearance. Right. Oh, my, this thing wasn't screwed on. My, my bad. And unscrewed it. You don't know your own strength. Just grabbing the microphone to adjust. He unscrewed it. Appearance is the seventh category. That's going to be a tricky one to remember. How about Stephen, our engineer going above and beyond? Yeah. Mitch doesn't do it again. Fuck you. Wasn't it shot at you? I was impressed. You bringing up that story was a shot at me. Nick, was it a shot at me? What are you talking about? The, do you mean up top with Dave Ferguson? No, that was insane. That's still insane. Okay.

That's insane. All right. I'm sorry. But no, that's like a, whatever. The little Caesar's thing was, I thought I wasn't trying to start any sort of shit there. I was just. You were mad at me though. I wasn't mad at you. I wasn't, I wasn't all mad at you. I just thought it was crazy that there happened to be two, two Vermont. It's a popular restaurant. I know. There were two on Vermont within the same one mile radius. I thought that was noteworthy and I thought that confusion was just like a little bit of an anecdote we could use to kick start us into this discussion, but now it's completely derailed. Old Mitch fucked up again. It's also very hard to have consistent direct communication in any relationship. Sure. There's always going to

be resentments. There's always going to be a bit of, you know, what I would call sort of passive, aggressive behaviors, sort of getting at an issue, you know, from a bit of a different angle. And we all do it. We all do it because it's, it's, it's scary to, to directly communicate. You go, well, this, is it really warranted that I bring up this issue now? It's going to become more than it should. But of course, you know, issues, issues, um, insinuate themselves one way or the other. Nick, are you mad at me? No, I'm not mad at you at all. Do you want me to do more with this podcast? You're doing more than enough. People don't believe that. People online get mad at me. They think that I'm lazy and don't do anything. Guys, give Mitch a break. No, you don't have to say that.

Well, to their credit, to their credit, this is, let's all remember this entire issue is what has resulted from Mitch, you having to order one extra pizza order. I was fine with doing it. You wanted to order just half the amount of pizza orders and having to do both of the pizza orders has thrown everything into this. I was fine. I was fine to coordinate and stuff is not easy. And I was fine doing it. And I did it for, I've done it for every pizza place besides the one you did on your own. I have. Yes. But you, I feel like you don't care. And correct me if I'm wrong. This involves dialing a number, not even dialing, right? Pressing a link on, on the, on probably your maps app. That's true. And I know I pick up

and you, you tell them, I think your address. I think you tell them. And I had no two sentences about the pizza that you want. I had no problem ordering every pizza for this tournament, which I've done besides the ones you got on your own, which are the next episode. And, but I still felt like you're mad at me. That was all it was. I'm not mad at you. Okay. Then good. I'm not mad at you either. Okay. Great. I love you, my friend. Mitch, I love you too. And the issue gets buried again to be brought up in a different way on another day. You know what, John? You've been very helpful. You, you actually have a good moderate. You are a good moderate. Nick is still mad at me and so I'm not mad at you. We are going to run out of time for this, this pizza. All right,

all right, fine. Let's, let's, let's get into the pizza. All right, we appearance, cheese, am I right now crust just on a scale of one to ten and then and then overall, but then that you don't then we're going to say which pizzas. Well God, Nick, what is it? Which pizza you want to send? Where which one? Oh, wait, what was it? Last time it was yeah, which pizza you want to send to the leaning tower of pizza to even it out. That's the winner and then which one you want to send to the high full tower in France. So that French people scoff at it. This is, this is the rulings of this tournament. So the winner gets used as essentially like a wedge under a table leg. Yeah, pretty much. The leaning tower of pizza. Right. Yeah. Oh yeah, pizza. The

loser is sent to France to be scoffed at and spit on by French people who don't want to have anything to do with pizza. Pretty much. Yeah. Okay. But first you got to rank it. You got to rank it on a scale of one to ten. Okay. College. So what's the first category? The first category is cheese. Well, why not? It's cheese. I would I would cheese. It's very difficult to isolate the cheese. I would there are both I would say unremarkable. Right. I'll give them both a five. I like that. Okay. Yeah. Next, next category, sauce. Sauce. I got to say similarly to the cheese. I mean, this is the pizza sauce is not dipping sauce or dipping sauce is not a factor at all. Oh, good question. We did get different sauce. I feel like we should, I feel like we should

include that in sauce. I feel like sauce should be both pizza sauce and dip and sauce because I had the little Caesars with only the little Caesars provided garlic butter. Right. And I had the Papa Johns with the Papa Johns provided garlic butter. Yeah. And Mitch got a lot of sauces. I also had the Papa Johns with some honey mustard, ranch and blue cheese, which I dipped in indiscriminately trying to tell the difference. Although they did have a slight the blue cheese had some like wouldn't call them chunks of cheese, but some slightly different appearance quality. Sure. Flex of something in there. Yeah. Okay. So, so, so I am to those that can be X factor, by the way. What's X is X factor category? Yeah. Okay. That could that can be the X factor because

I feel like it's a little unnecessary because anything tastes better to me dipped in like honey mustard. Sure. Papa Johns had more sauce options. Options. Yeah. We had a sauce asymmetry because I didn't realize I thought I was just getting the one sauce from the little Caesars, but they have other sauces available. They have other sauces, but it's okay. Okay. So, I'm sorry. Not as many as Papa Johns. So, I'm up to sauce. So, so am I judging just on pizza sauce? Yes. Pizza sauce. Tomato sauce. Tomato sauce. I give them both a five also. I felt they were both I felt they were both like neutral. You know, my baseline is like normal Domino's pizza, which it just felt like that sort of like from concentrate pizza. Right. I get that. Yeah.

So, I'll give those both a five. Dough. Not bad. Not bad sauce. Now, dough is different than crust. Dough and crust together. Dough slash crust. Dough slash crust. Dough slash crust. I'm going to give little Caesars another five. I'm going to give Papa Johns a six. Wow. Because it felt I liked especially on the meat lovers, there's a bit of a crispier quality to the crust. It was slightly it felt like not burnt, but like not caramelized, but it had a bit of a char to it that I found pleasurable. Yeah. Slightly more into my memory of the sort of flavor and mouth feel of the little Caesars was like sort of predominantly salty. And Papa Johns was predominantly was salty too, but it felt like

it had a bit of a different layer that the crust provided. So, I'm going to give them a different scoring there. Five for little Caesars. Six for Papa Johns. Wow. Wow. Okay. Toppings is the next category. This is kind of a tough one. Toppings. Toppings. I think I'm going to do the same five, six split. Again, in favor of Papa Johns. Yeah. I felt that I felt that I felt that I felt that I wasn't aware that there was more meat. I think it might have been the Canadian bacon added in there, because again, it felt like there was a while little Caesars was salt is like the overwhelming flavor. Papa Johns had like a bit of sweetness that maybe was coming from that Canadian bacon. It was slightly,

it was a little bit more of a dimension again with those toppings. That's fair. So, I'm going to do a five, six. Neither was like amazing, you know, but like there was that, there's that bit of difference there. Right. I believe Appearance is the next category. Appearance and then X Factor, which could be the other sauces. Okay. Yeah. You got two more Appearance and then X Factor. Appearance. Remind me, the little Caesars deep dish had had was a bit of a rectangle. Yes, it was like a square. It's the Detroit style square pizza. Right. Different from, I mean, it is deep dish, but it is different from Chicago deep dishes. Right. It's not as deep, I feel like.

Appearance. Appearance. They say you eat with your eyes first. Who's they? What were your eyes telling you? Who's they? I mean, it's, the cheese pizzas were the origin of the fucking thing. The cheese pizzas were virtually identical. Yeah. They did actually look like, if you swap them boxes, I would not be able to tell that you changed them. The Papa John's, like I said, had a bit of char or caramelization to it that I found visually appealing. I'm going to give them a six with that. The little Caesars was a bit of a rectangular shape. Yes. I know a square is a rectangle, too. It's an equilateral rectangle. Right. This was a non-equilateral rectangle.

And there was a fluffiness to its appearance that was appealing to me. I'm going to give them a six also. Wow. Okay. Both of them. I like this. I actually truly, this is a very close race right now. It's also just a very thorough breakdown. I find extremely compelling. It will be interesting when I just say my numbers in a row and say nothing to them. I think honestly, I think Mitch you and I should probably just do that because for the interest of time. But X factor and then roll into your overall ranking. And X factor and X factor. I would say it could be anything you want it to be. Yeah. But Mitch is trying to push you towards the dipping sauces. We got the dipping sauces. We got the little Caesar himself versus Papa John. There's a lot of, the fact that there's

a carryout place versus. Little Caesar is appealing. He almost has like, I like that art style. It's almost like a French or Belgian sort of art style. Right. It's almost like asterix. Remember that old comic about the Gauls, the French? Oh, yeah. Remember asterix? It's like a Charlie head bow thing. There were books of this comic. Oh, okay. I don't know. It was like a red bearded Gaul sort of barbarian. Right. Yes. Okay. So I like that. Papa John is like a 50 something kind of creepy man. Yes. And that's not necessarily a negative. No. Because I sort of, I like the, I like getting my dirty, disgusting pizza from a dirty, gross person. I understand that. There's no dissonance there. That's sort of harmonious.

Little Caesars was just so unremarkable. And, you know, it was so like, there was nothing like, if you took them out of the box, I wouldn't, I'm going to have to give it a five. I'd give it a four, but, but I liked that cartoon. Yeah. So I'm going to give that a five. Papa John's, like I said, I like the little pepper thing. I like the sauce in the box. I like the little, I know they all have sauces, but I, there was just a bit of a depth to it. I like that he's, you know, ultra conservative or libertarian. You know, I like that he runs his business like he's a fucking despot. It works for me. I'm going to give them a seven. Wow. Wow. Wow. Now, overall,

you can just give your number. Don't declare your winner, but your overall numbers. And then we'll declare our winners at the same time. Sometimes the overall score doesn't mean it's the winner. Overall score, little Caesar's five, Papa John's six and a half. Wow. Wow. All right, Mitchell's college scholarship. Let's, let's meet through our rankings. Sure. I'll go first. Yes. Cheese to me, I think that, I think little, actually, you know what? It's really close between the cheeses at the places. I'm going to give them both sixes. Both little kind of salty cheese, but I like both. Actually, you know what? Both sevens. They're both good. Okay. The sauce, I think little Caesar wins the sauce battle for me. I think that the Papa John sauce tastes a

little too much like the marinara side sauce you'll get in like the containers. And you know what I'm talking about? Right? Yeah. It's a little like too sweet or processed or something. There's something about it I don't like as much as the little Caesar. So seven to little Caesar's five to Papa John's toppings. Man, I hate to say it, but Papa John's did win. Cause I don't like Papa John's the guy himself, but I got to be fair here. They won the topping battle. I'm going to go eight to seven, eight to six and a half. Papa John's the little Caesar's. What am I missing? Doe? All right. So Doe, we got the pan, we got the regular cheese pizza from on the regular crust from Papa John's and then the pan pizza for the meat lovers at Papa John's. And then a deep dish

and a regular cheese pizza. The best, the best, I like how you have to suck the saliva back in your mouth. The best dough to me came on that deep dish little Caesar's pizza. I liked the best, but then the worst dough was on the cheese pizza from little Caesar as well. It was a little too like, I liked the pizza, pizza party style of it all. And, and, and, but it was just a little too cardboardy and like maybe just kind of like a little too dry. I agree with you. Um, unlike your lip area. Far as moist as a Chicago style pizza. So it's, it's tricky with that song, but I'm going to go six and a half little Caesar's. And then, you know what? Six and a half to Papa John's because

it just is equaled itself out. What am I missing? X factor? Did you go do appearance? Oh, appearance, appearance, X factor overall appearance. Papa John's wins the appearance award seven to seven, eight to seven. Okay. The pepper John's looked a little bit better. Overall, I'm going to go little Caesar's because I love the taste of that deep dish. Seven and a half for little Caesar's. Papa John's, I'm going to go seven. It surprised me way more than I liked it way more than I thought I was going to like it. I thought it was good. There are some good slices in there. Yes. X factor. You know what? The X, the Papa John himself brings down the X factor of Papa John's, even though I agree with John that the garlic and the

pepper, Chini are fun and they have more dipping sauces. Little Caesar's has more dipping sauces. I like the little Caesar himself and there's a, and there's, and I kind of like that it's a carry out place. I think that's kind of more novel than a place that is. I mean, it's harder to get and it is less convenient, but I kind of like that. It's a weird takeout place. I don't know. I like that about it. Yeah. They're just, they're not worried about the, having the infrastructure for delivering pizza. They're just like, we're just going to have it here and you can go pick it up and it'll be, you know, what it is. And here's the other thing, price, which isn't a factor, but I put it in the X factor. Very good point. How much was the total for the little Caesar's?

We, it was just over $17 for two large pizzas. The Papa John's total with tip was almost, was more than three times, three times more. That's crazy. It was three times more. That's insane. Now is there a point where the low price of the food you're eating becomes a negative? Um, it could be, but for X factor, I already gave my overall score, which maybe I should have waited till last, but X factor, I get what you're saying, but X factor, I'm going to give it to little Caesar's seven to six. Wow. All right. I'm really going to speed through mine. So if you're maintaining the Doughboys Wikipedia, listen up. Little Caesar's will be first, Papa John's will be second, cheese, six, six, sauce, four, three, dough, crust, seven, four,

toppings, five, six, appearance, eight, three, X factor, 10, zero, overall, six, four. Guys, let's get to our X factor 10, zero. Yeah. I gave a 10 to little Caesar's and a zero for Papa John's. That's a thumb on the scale for me because, because I like that little Caesar's is the pizza of the working class and that Papa John, I despise Papa John as a man and what he stands for. So let's get to our, also they gave us a lot of napkins at little Caesar's, which I really appreciated. I could, I always use a lot of napkins and they just gave them to me without asking. So all right, let's get to it. So we're going to say which you got napkins from both little Caesar's that you went to. Yeah, right. Even the one without my order, they just threw napkins at me.

All right. So we will say, we will say, we'll count down from three, and then we will say at the same time, which pizza chain we think should move on in the tournament of champions, which one would we send to the Leaning Tower of Pizza? Counting down from three, we will say it at the same time in unison. Three, two, one. Little Caesar's. Wow, it's a split decision, split decision, but little Caesar's moving on. Papa John's survives, moving down. I almost went with Papa John's. That chance. Papa John's gave me more of a showing than I expected. I went in very cynical, but let me tell you though, the employees at Papa John's, I may not like the man, but the employees at Papa John's do a good job making those pizza pies. That was very, very, very, very edible. Is John

right though? Oh no. Don't do it again. Backtrack your decision. Just like last year. I already got in too much trouble with Nick today. You should say what's in your heart. I'm not going to be upset that you're less invested in these particular places. I'm not going to be upset if you think Papa John's, if you legitimately think Papa John's is a better pizza, and that's what should move on. If that's what you believe, I want you to say it. If that's not what you believe, then that's fine. I have to go by my favorite bite of the entire thing, and it was the deep dish little Caesar's bite. Yeah, me too. Yeah. That's how I feel. All right. Should we betrayed? No, I may just love honey mustard.

A little Caesar's moving on to the semifinals. Papa John's going down the loser's bracket. It's time for a regular segment. We've got a bunch of chips and we're going to eat them all. It's chips in hail. Rest you rangers. No bag too small. When you've got chips, just call. Ch-ch-ch-chips in hail. Rest you rangers. Chips in hail. You know it never fails once we're involved. Somehow these chips will eat them all. Ch-ch-ch-chips in hail. All right, so we've got these, these kettle chips. Is that fun for you? Yeah, that's how we use the same. We got some, these are, these are kettle brand potato chips. These are cooked in 100% avocado oil. All of these are, are cooked in all of avocado oil. My lovely wife Natalie picked these up

for us. Lunge pad McSnack. Yeah. Well played. So we've got chili lime. We've got tropical salsa and we've got Hawaiian barbecue and we can just dig into these and see which of these we prefer. My favorite part of that is when you are just listening and not singing to the lyrics that you didn't have made up lyrics for. Right, I really should figure out something to bridge those two lines of the chorus. It's great, Nick. You know what, Nick? I do love you. I love you too. Mmm. All right, I'm eating the, I'm eating the chili lime right now, which I got to say not a lot of chili from these. And honestly, I don't know what avocado I'm getting from this. I guess the oil is going to be, you know, it's not going to have like a true avocado flavor.

Tropical salsa, not very salsa-y. It tastes more like a barbecue chip. Interesting. Not so dissimilar from the Hawaiian barbecue, which I liked. Stephen, can you pass those Hawaiian barbecues over here? Thanks, buddy. And then I actually need to have those tropical salsas as well. Yeah, these are very, just straight up barbecue chips. Those are Hawaiian barbecue. Yeah, they say they have ginger and fused sea salt. But yeah, the Hawaiian barbecue, they are just like a... But I think the salsa is very barbecue-y too. The tropical salsa tastes like, tastes like fruity pebbles to me. Ooh, these I find off-putting. Yeah, they are way too fruity. And they taste like, you know, you get something like this and they're like, oh, cooked in 100%

avocado oil. They're kettle chips. Tropical salsa with mango and fused salt. You think they're going to be something kind of like, you know, wholesome tasting, but these taste very food lab artificial franken food, food ask. I don't know. I think I was going to rank these. I'd probably say the Hawaiian barbecue first. Yep. And then the chili lime by virtue of being the least offensive, kind of get the silver medal, and I'd put those tropical salsas bringing up the rear. Hey, same rankings, Nick. There we are. We're in the hand-owned club on that one. Kimberly, what do you think? I'm going to say Hawaiian barbecue first. Yeah, I do this. I mean, tropical salsa, I don't... It doesn't taste so unnatural to me. It just

tastes very... Like it's not forceful on any of its flavor points. Right, I got you. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, it's not like repulsive, but it's just like, what are we doing here? Why would I ever get this again? I mean, I feel like that's a reaction I have to a lot to a lot of snacks is just like, this is maybe fine to not great, but why would I ever eat this with all the snack options that are out there? All right. Well, that was, hey, would you guys have any... Did the avocado oil do anything for you? Did these taste any different from any normally cooked chips? Slightly. I didn't really get anything from it. I mean, none of them were great. Yeah. I don't know what I'm trying to proceed by. I would eat the Hawaiian barbecue ones if they were out.

Right. So how much is it much better to be cooked in avocado oil? I assume it's healthier. I don't know. I mean, I don't have the default one to compare nutrition stats, but I assume it has less saturated fat than a normal chip. I honestly don't know. Non-GMO, so they probably have more bacteria in them and shit. They got that going for them. How would you rank them? Same ranking as us? Yeah, I think you already did that. Oh, okay. Yeah. Well, none of these are lighting the world on fire, but there you go. That was chips and a hail rescue. I don't know. The Hawaiian barbecues, all right. Those ones were pretty good, but the avocado oil may add a oily meatiness that's not welcome. Right. Do they make them closer? Is that the issue? None of them had a crisp

flavor. It was like mealy. Yeah. That is true. Yeah. Maybe that oil has a different smoke point or something. It can't quite get as hot. I don't know. I'm curious what's going on with that. Yeah. Just like a restaurant, I've got your feedback. Let's open up the feedback. Today's email comes from Alex with a Z. Alex writes, my friends and I are in a pretty contentious fight right now and I'm hoping you can clear this up. Are bagels bread? I say yes, 100%. My friend says no, they are a bread product, but not bread. Help. Alex, I don't. Yeah. He ended his email. What would an exclamation bread product be? I don't know. I guess you're maybe tortillas, maybe like pita. Maybe that's what they're thinking of. I mean, there are flour tortillas,

but yeah, I don't know. A tortilla is not bread to me. I agree with you. I don't think a tortilla is bread. Is a bun bread like a hot dog bun? No, it's a bun. Yes. Oh, it's bread. Oh, shit. Bagels are bread. I think they probably are bread. I don't think of them that way, but if you really want to break it down, it's probably bread. Is pizza dough bread? If you took a pizza. Yes. And you cooked it without the sauce and cheese. Is that bread? I think you would call it a flat bread. Yeah, I think that's exactly what it would be. This is bad. I mean, bagels are pretty. I mean, like if I scooped, if I had like a Wonder Bread loaf and I like grabbed a ball with my fist and put it in your mouth and then did

the same for a bagel and was like, is one of these not bread? You'd be like, no, I'm eating bread right now, right? Right. I will say at the 420 show, Armin and the late great Harris Whittles sang, they sang bread to another brick in the law park, too. It was just bread, bread, bread, bread, bread, bread, bread, bread and they throw bread out. Yes. And they did include bagels and tortillas and tortillas. Fuck. They were tortillas like frisbees. Oh man. Corn tortillas, I hope. No, I assumed, I think just flour, but I don't know. It was just flour tortillas. They're bread products. You know what? I'm sick of this. I'm sick of people saying is a hotdog a sandwich. I'm sick of that shit. A bagel is a bagel. It doesn't have to be bread. It's just a

bagel. It's just a bagel. A hotdog bun is, I mean, like a hotdog bun is, a bagel you could argue is like boiled, is prepared, different, is cooked differently than a loaf of bread. A hotdog bun is literally just a piece of bread in a different shape. Yeah. I mean, if I cut out, if I make a little like star shaped sandwich for my child's lunch, is that, are you gonna say it's not bread because it's in a different shape? Can a bun just be a bun? That's bread. You know what? Fine. A bun is bread. A hotdog bun is bread, but a bagel is not bread. Wow. But it is made of bread. All right, fine. A bagel is bread too. Yeah, Alex, it's bread. Your friend's wrong. If you have a question or comment about the word of the chain restaurants, you can email us at

Doughboyspodcast at gmail.com or leave us a voicemail at 830 Go Dough. That's 830 463 6844. And hey, the tournament of choppions continues on The Dough Boys Double for more munch madness action and access to all of our weekly bonus episodes. Join the Golden Play Club at patreon.com slash Doughboys. John Gemberling, you've been far too generous with your time. Thank you for being a mediator as well. Yes, thank you for being a great, a great guest and a very thorough food critic. And Nick, I'm sorry again. I'm sorry. I'm sorry too. We have nothing. I don't think you have anything to apologize for. Everyone online will hate me. No one's gonna be mad at you. They're gonna love that you did this chips and hail fucking people. Yes, they do. It's bullshit. I mean,

I agree with you. They shouldn't like it. John, you're the funniest. Thank you for doing this again. Thank you guys. Anytime. We'll have you back. We appreciate all your thoughts and insights into food and the human condition. We could have had a Burger King esque upset night and I blew it. But I don't think you blew. I think you said you said what was in your heart. That's what's important. Yeah. Gemberling, do you have anything you would like to promote? No. I think I'm just gonna be me. I don't need to be promoting something all the time. I don't use social media that much. There's no reason for you to look at it. If you see my Twitter, I'm just gonna be like promoting something. But I don't feel the need to just self promote

shamelessly all the time. I also don't really have anything to promote. I appreciate that. Yeah. That's very nice. We can just live. We don't all have to be, you know, marketing agents for, you know, we're like nodes in this capitalist marketing machine. I just want to be a person right now. I like that. I like it too. I like that a lot. Yeah, we both like it. Check out John Gemberling the person. And Nick, you and I are good people too. Yeah. Check all of us out. I'm on a human level. Yeah. That'll do it for this episode of Doe Boys. Until next time, for Mitchy Two Spoons, Mike Mitchell, I'm Nick Weiger. Happy eating. See ya. Doe Boys, maybe. Want more Doe Boys? Get the Doe Boys double our weekly bonus episode

by joining the Golden Play Club on Patreon.com slash Doe Boys.