Dr. Insanity - Moments After Finding Her Roommates Brutally Executed

Episode Date: December 16, 2025

This is real footage obtained from U.S. law enforcement. Get a 60-day free trial at https://www.shipstation.com/insanity. Thanks to ShipStation for sponsoring the show! This is Joseph "Paul" DeWise, whose deteriorating relationship with his wife was slowly ruining his life. Over the course of a year, Paul recorded and documented his entire downward spiral - until, eventually, he decided enough was enough. This video was made for educational purposes only. It presents genuine footage of police incidents to promote government transparency while providing educational, informative, and newsworthy content. This fact-checked documentary uses authoritative sources, allowing viewers to examine and assess public safety material. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

I don't care what you did. I'm sorry about what I did. Just please come home. Please. Just, please. This is Joseph Paul DeWise, and his deteriorating relationship with his wife, Lauren, is slowly ruining his life.

I'm driving and I'm crying. I don't want to go without you I'm sorry I will do better I promise Over the years Lauren had lost her feelings for Paul But Paul's love for her

Had only grown stronger And to cope with Slowly losing the love of his life Paul turned to drinking sending his mental state Into a downward spiral His love for Lauren would turn into his

All of a sudden, you're like, oh, I'm just an innocent victim now. Why don't you attack me in front of the camera? Why don't you talk to me like you did a minute ago? And that's what this is about. And I'm angry, and it's hard for me to live with. Paul could only bear the pain for so long. His complex emotions turned into obsession, leading him to stalk Lauren, where he soon discovered she was going on dates with other men.

Eventually, enough was enough. Good night, Lauren. I hope you sleep well. On the night of January 7, 2018, Lauren DeWise would be found dead in her bedroom. It was confirmed that Paul was responsible. I live at 1308. It's an extra neighbor. She just came over in barracks and said somebody shot a roommate. What makes this case specifically so interesting is that Paul recorded his entire mental downfall from the start of his issues with Lauren all the way to the tragic end.

For the past six months, I've worked with a handful of police stations, district attorneys, and news networks to gather the entire recorded life of Joseph Paul DeWise. This is his full story. This was a letter to Lauren, written by Paul on July 24th, 2017. It indicates the first real sign of Paul and Lauren's relationship problems, but also Paul's dark tendency of self-hatred. I have no excuse for what happened last night. I am a very bad person for you right now. I hate myself.

I do not deserve you. I have no reason to be loved by you are the kids. I ruin everything. You deserve someone way better than me. Paul wrote this letter just hours after a heated argument with Lauren, where he lost his temper and screamed at her, all in front of their three children. This was likely one of many arguments that took place in the home, because after this incident, Lauren would leave their home, stating,

I'll only return for the kids. Looking at the letter, it's clear that Paul felt immense guilt for screaming in front of his children, perhaps even more than most would. And there's a very good reason for that. In his journal, Paul would often write about growing up in an abusive household. In one entry, he described walking in on his father screaming and choking his mother, her face turning purple from the strangulation. Perhaps Paul felt he had followed in his father's footsteps by becoming aggressive towards Lauren in front of their children, something that likely embarrassed him. But instead of apologizing for his outburst, he chose a different path.

He would begin manipulating his children, convincing them that he had done nothing wrong, even going as far as recording these statements to show Lauren later on. How do you feel about what happened with Lauren? I'm angry and sad, and I don't know. I'm upset. I'm mad. I don't understand. It's overwhelming. The only damage that I feel that has been done by, um, it is, honestly, Lauren. I mean, everything was fine until she decided that she wanted to do what she did. Was it my fault? Was I a bad husband to Lauren?

No. Are you glad? It's just going to be me, you, Joe and then, no. Why? Because if Mama moved away. Yeah. Lauren had moved out of the house and Paul's attempts at manipulation only pushed her further away. In turn, his abandonment issues worsened, spiraling into paranoia over the thought of Lauren falling in love with someone else. There are numerous examples of Paul's paranoia, but certain examples are particularly notable. One thing Paul would consistently do over these years was send relentless barrages of text messages. They would usually start out in a calm, collected way.

I respected you, and so did the community. Now you are someone else. You aren't building love in the family anymore. Mostly insecurity and frustration and sadness. But would quickly spiral into unintelligible rants of self-hatred and aggressive accusations. Now I am depressed again. How can you not care? How can you make me deal with this by myself?

Why won't you save us? I'm sick again, and my counselor had to cancel. I am a pathetic piece of crap now. I am completely alone. My life is ruined. My money is gone. My body is broken. My wife doesn't care about me except to hurt me.

You are abusive. You. You. I am crazy now. Great job. Always ending with some type of accusatory comment, likely to make Lauren feel guilt over not being there for him. Another thing he would regularly do was contact people in Lauren's life. One notable example would be towards Lauren's female co-worker, who Paul suspected to be bisexual.

I would appreciate it if you would stay away from my wife. You are not a good influence for her, and she is acting like a single woman. I don't not trust you as I reached out to you, and you ignored me. My wife needs family-oriented friends, not friends that married people, and aren't friends enough to help in crisis. Paul's messages to Lauren and her friends continued for months, growing increasingly emotional over time. But Lauren would rarely respond. Reading his diaries, it's clear this deeply upset, Paul. He felt like he was losing the woman he loved.

Desperate for a reaction, he soon turned to sending her videos instead, hoping that would finally grab her attention. I don't care what you did. I'm sorry about what I did. just please come home I don't want to I don't want to restrict because it's by myself and I love you

please just fucking please please I work two jobs I'll do anything I won't be here I'll be working all the time

just come home Please, please come off. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I was so angry. I have a new perspective now. Paul's emotional swings indicate a deep fear of abandonment, likely stemming from his childhood. With Lauren, he was angry and controlling. Without her, he was desperate and self-pitying. When she responded, it would briefly ease his distress, but unfortunately for Paul,

For Paul, Lauren would stop responding altogether. On November 14th, Paul's worst fears of abandonment would come true. He would discover clues that Lauren had started going out again. And later that same week, he signed up for V-Sync GPS tracking services and registered her phone to the system. Paul would start stalking her. He would take pictures of Lauren and the various bar. she would go to and store them away to confront her with later. But on November 14th, things took a dark turn, when, while stalking her, Paul discovered

Lauren in her car with a co-worker named Kevin Making Out. It seemed to confirm his deep fear of being abandoned as he stood there, watching it all unfold. Kevin would eventually leave the vehicle, allowing Paul to rush in and let Lauren know he saw everything. that just happened. He'd pull out his phone to record, but would only capture a few seconds. It was an accident. I'm sorry. Paul would go on to take Lauren's phone, texting Kevin an array of angry messages. However, eventually, Lauren would escape the situation. Approximately 22 hours after this had taken place, Paul would find Lauren with a different man, Brian. The two were simply co-workers, but Paul wasn't going to take any chances.

So again, he would go up to the car, this time confronting the man, instead of Lauren. This man had absolutely no intimate relationship with Lauren, so he retaliated against these claims, even punching Paul in the face. I can pull the way to my man. Paul was furious. However, instead of begging Lauren to get back together, he would ask her to grab her final belongings from the house and never come back.

This was a sharp, distinction from the previous weeks and even months. It seemed like Paul's ongoing desperation for Lauren had bizarrely turned into hatred. Lauren would oblige and go on to take her items from the house, but Paul wouldn't stop there. The next morning, he would take to Facebook, making a public post stating, Has anyone in Bozeman not kissed my wife? Last night I caught Lauren making out with this man in her car outside of a bar.

She is the best liar I have ever known. Paul had turned to retaliation, and his video recordings made that clear. Yes, I've been drinking. I'm having beer, but I'm not wasted. I'm very upset. I put up the shit for years. I didn't realize it because I was blind. And that's what this is about.

And I'm angry. And my children are angry. My baby's angry. and it's hard for me to live with. It's very difficult. It's all about shutting you down. But in Bozeman, there's all these young 30-somethings with tons of money that Lauren's chasing. She loves that.

And she's going to step up from me and our family and get ahead. I'm angry. I don't want her to keep her job. I would like to protect the community from her. I'm sure I will be an outcast now because, you know, who tells the truth anymore, right? Paul continued to bombard Lauren with texts, stalk her, and most of all, fuel his chronic alcoholism, which only worsened his anger issues. At one point, even telling Lauren's friend at a local bar, quote, I've killed people before and I'm not afraid to do it again. The final straw in Paul's downward spiral came in an incident completely unrelated to Lauren.

While out walking with his daughter, Paul would begin threatening a homoer. whose dogs were barking at him from behind a fence when the man confronted him and enraged Paul pulled out a pocket knife and stabbed him in the hip and Paul would record the entire event we just got attacked by these people's dogs this is my baby baby did you think that dog was going to get you I did too and then this man attacked me behind the dog after this woman Baby, I'm sorry. I withdrew my knife to defend myself against this man who took me down with a single leg takedown. As the last resort, when my back was on the floor, I struck up with a knife.

I struck the man. They pulled the dog away. Now the dog's gone. You okay, baby? I'm so sorry. You're stuck here and tag a knife. And see, still. Still the aggression with my baby.

I'm blocking my baby from this woman. This is the aggression these people have. They threatened us when we tried to walk by. Let's get out of here. Are you some kind of a sofa? Are you crazy or what? Hey, the cops are coming for you. You're crazy.

Wow. You guys are gonna be out of here. I'm so glad you've been uncovered for what you are. You better chill the fucking. You better chill the fuck out. That's right, I should. You kick me and I put you on the ground. That's right.

So that you can figure out what's going out. It's okay, baby. That's right. Don't run away. Don't threaten me and fucking come in my yard. Fuck the knife! I dropped it. Get on the ground now!

Do not move! It's okay, baby. Hand behind your back! It's okay. Hand behind your back. Do not move. It's okay, though. Luckily for Paul, the homeowner had technically put his hands on him first, so the stabbing was considered self-defense.

And while he would walk away with no charges, this event would signify that Paul was not afraid of violence, and in fact seemed to endorse it. On January 6, 2018, at 11.56 a.m., Paul would text Lauren inviting her over for some soup. Lauren would never reply. At 3.36 p.m., Paul would text Lauren, asking if they were still meeting for tomorrow. Lauren would reply. What for? I'd like to pick up my daughter and spend time with her. This seemed to upset Paul, so he would go on his, by this point, usual rant to Lauren, sending messages such as, I beg you, please don't destroy us, I love you, and we'll do whatever it takes. Hours later, at 10.58 p.m., Lauren would reply, no thank you. A two-hour gap would proceed with no text messages between the two.

However, Paul was completing other tasks during this time. First, Paul can be seen on CCTV at the town pump gas station at 1234 a.m. Additionally, Paul would take a photo from his phone minutes after. While blurry, this photo shows Lauren's current home in the distance, as well as a GPS tracking device inside the vehicle. Following this photo, Paul would send a final text message. saying, I know I'm not supposed to text you now, but I can't sleep. Please, please, please come home.

I miss you and love you so much. Please, I love you. We all do. Please just come home. Please. 911, what's the address of your emergency? Idaho Street, Belgrade. The next to our neighbor, she just came over in barracks and said somebody shot a roommate.

Should it just happen? Yeah, she said it just happened. She needs an ambulance handplaced. Okay, where is the person that shot the neighbor? Who shot? Who shot? The guy's name was Paul DeWise. So Paul DeWise is the one that shot the person?

That's what she said, yes. She said her roommate Ashley is the one that stole life. Do we know where Paul is now? She doesn't know if he's still in the house. That's why she ran. Okay. All right. Is Ashley bleeding seriously?

Was she bleeding seriously? Yes. She said yes. Okay. Lauren and her roommate, Ashley, were shot. on the morning of January 6th. Their neighbors would hear the gunshot and rush to the home, finding what they saw as a deceased Lauren and a severely wounded Ashley.

Additionally, the neighbors would name Paul the Wise as the shooter. Officers would waste no time and rush to the scene immediately. Where are we at? What's going on? I stayed in the friends last night, and I just came in, and I saw that my back door had been broken in, so I went to the back, and I could see footsteps in the snow, so I ran up to my room to see it. My roommate was okay. I have two roommates.

One of them is dead, and the other one is in her room, and she's still alive, and she needs help, but I ran because I didn't know if he was still in the house. Okay, so you don't know if there's somebody else in the house? I don't think so, but I don't know. Okay. Lauren looks like she's been a while, and Ashley's asked me for help, and I ran. She's not out of work, and what the street is? Is this door open?

Yes. Okay. So we have two people upstairs. Is that what you're telling you? Okay. But we don't know if there's anybody else in the house. Is that correct? Okay.

Okay. One apparent dead, one still alive. She said I ran out as soon as I saw that. I have no idea if there's still anybody else in there or not. Okay. So this is open? Okay. You can see any footprints in the snow leading up here?

Okay. You ready? Yep. Belgrade police! Police! Police department! Anybody inside? Come out!

I'm going this way. Okay, I got stairwell. Police! How many people are inside? How many people are inside? We're making entry. How many people? You're on.

Okay. We're coming Belgrade police Show me your hands We got doors on the left and right I'm in here I'm not going to shoot me Please don't shoot me

Who shot you? I'm not going to shoot you I'm not going to shoot me One criminal down I'm behind you Okay, we're getting medical in here now Please don't shoot me We're not going to shoot you, ma'am

My name's Ashley What's going on? Who shot you? Nobody. Oh, what happened? I don't know. Please come here. Who did? Are you the police?

I'm the police, right here. Where are you? I'm right here. Can you see me? Where are you? I'm right here. Where? Where?

Ashley was temporary. blind, with a bullet wound to the back of her head and several others across her body. She had no idea where she was, and wasn't even aware she had been shot. Are you the police? I'm the police, yes. Show me, your face. I'm right here. Can you see me? No.

Can you see anything? No. No? Okay. Ma'am, I'm right here. Can you hear me? I'm right here. Can you feel my hand? What?

What? They're going to shoot me. I'm not going to shoot you. Where do you hurt? I don't hurt anywhere. You don't hurt anywhere? No! Are you going to hurt me?

No, I don't want to hurt you. Okay, please help me. We're going to help you, Ashley. Ashley was not in a communicative state at this point, making this about as difficult a situation as you can get as a police officer. Regardless, this officer would do a heroic job of remaining calm as he continued to talk to Ashley and ensure she stayed awake. Fortunately, medical staff arrived quickly

and Ashley would be rushed to the hospital. Whether or not she would survive remain to be seen. But the officer can rest assured knowing that he did everything possible to keep her alive. The other victim, Lauren, would be pronounced dead on the scene.

While this is devastating, another problem still had to be solved and solved fast, as the shooter had not yet been located. Got the garage cleared? Yep, he cleared the garage. We got tracks everywhere. Can you move that bed frame or the mattress?

Clear. Got a man door, can we go out that? Yeah. Okay. Clear. We're clear? Is there tracks going over the top of the fence or anything? No.

Negative. How about this way? There's tracks going around that way. going around that way. Okay, is our gate open? The house was clear, meaning whoever killed Lauren had fled immediately. And while he may have gotten away, several clues would be left behind. The most obvious being a trail of bloody footprints leading from the east side of the house over to the back door. At the time, this was a small, irrelevant detail. However, this would become one of the leading pieces of evidence to solve the case later on. By nothing short of a miracle, Ashley would survive

the brutal attack. She would undergo multiple emergency surgeries, fracture treatments, and blood transfusions. This was a blessing for not only Ashley and her family, but for the detectives working on the case. Because if Ashley could recall what had happened and who shot her, solving this case would become a whole lot easier. But before we dive deeper into the case, let me tell you about today's sponsor, Ship Station. Every business owner knows the headache of juggling multiple shipping platforms and carriers, especially after the holidays. That's where Shipstation comes in. Shipstation brings order to the chaos by letting you manage all your shipments in one place.

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Calm the chaos of order fulfillment with the shipping software that delivers. Switch to Shipstation today. Go to Shipstation.com and use code insanity to sign up for your free trial. That's Shipstation.com code insanity. Now let's get back to the video. So, after Ashley had briefly recovered from her surgeries, detectives would sit down for a formal interview. The goal of the interview was to help her recall crucial details about the incident by asking specific targeted questions in hopes of triggering memories that might have been buried due to the trauma.

So obviously, you know, we're here to talk to you. Yes, I do. And I know this is kind of a tough question, but can you tell me, do you remember anything at all? When I got shot? Mm-hmm. No. No, I do not remember being shot at all. Well, yeah, you're, you know, you're a lucky gal, but everything that I've heard, you know, you're a fighter. It's a miracle I'm alive. I thank God every day.

It's really a miracle. It is. The detective would continue asking questions for another 30 minutes, but unfortunately, Ashley was unable to answer anything whatsoever. Again, officers were left confused as to who this killer was and why this happened in the first place. Due to the lack of physical evidence, detectives decided to talk to more witnesses in order to determine a primary suspect. Audria, the neighbor who called for help, had reported Paul as the potential killer during the 911 call. So with this in mind, officers decided it was imperative to speak with Audria to better understand why she would make these claims. And she would waste no time letting officers in on Lauren's abusive relationship with Paul.

We went golfing once this summer. Okay. Well, she actually had worked out at my gym. I'm a personal trainer at Big Sky Barbell, and she had come in one day, and I saw a bruise on her, and I remember saying, dude, what happened to her leg? And she said, oh, I just ran into something, and I said, a hundred mile an hour softball? What happened to your leg? She just dismissed it.

A couple months later, we were golfing, and she said, they've lived here about a year. And she said, I can't believe I've never. told anybody this, but I think I need to leave Paul. He beats me all the time. And I used to contact me every day. And one day would be, you ruined my life, to, I can't believe you're helping my wife, to, I'm so sorry, this is all my fault, this is nothing to do with you. You did nothing wrong.

I mean, he's got a schizophrenic chain of messages that I never responded to. Anyway, yesterday, it's actually been fairly cold. She went over to his house for the, um, hurt their daughters. She had a three-year-old daughter. She tried four hundred. Audrey was well aware Paul was an abusive and psychotic husband prior to Lauren's death.

Based on Audrey's claims, her suspicion of Paul's involvement would only grow stronger. I left last night around 9. She had just gotten out of the bath and she had actually said something to me like, I'm just so happy here. I feel safer than I felt in years

and I remember leaving. I left around 9.30. And I got home this morning. I got one ready. And when I walked in, I looked down in my back door frame. Two pieces of wood were laying on the floor. And I ran upstairs to see if Lord was okay. She was not okay.

I literally like, well, the door had been proffield, and she always slowed to the... And it went open. I walked up, and I could... I didn't walk it all the way in her room. I just looked at her and was like... It looked to me as well as I was there, but I didn't even... My rain went to back shots because he has, like, a bicyclist, pulled him up.

I kind of got close to him in traffic once he pulled him past him on bicycle. He pulled him past him on Lauren. He got banned from Airbnb. He pulled him to the Airbnb guest. That's good. Yeah. Based on Ashley's claims, Paul was not only an abuser, but also notoriously threatened people with the same weapon used to kill Lauren.

It was becoming more and more clear that Paul was who detectives ultimately needed to speak with. Safely getting Paul to the police station for questioning was something that needed to be done with extreme precaution. Whoever killed Lauren was armed with a 22-caliber pistol, and if Paul was responsible, a dangerous scenario could occur if police contacted him directly. So, in order to safely secure him,

officers devised a complex plan for his arrest. Paul's house would be heavily surveyed the day of the arrest. The moment Paul left his house, the surveillance team would notify the arrest team of his direction of travel. In order to leave his neighborhood, Paul would have to exit either to the west on South 19th Avenue or east on South 3rd Avenue. Units would be blocking both streets

and a high-risk felony stop would be used to take a wise into custody. With this plan, officers were granted an arrest warrant for Paul, and immediately the operation would go underway. At 9 a.m. the next day, Paul would exit his house in his Chevrolet suburban. He'd turn west onto South 19th Avenue, where an officer would be waiting for him and quickly pull the vehicle over. Get out. Hands up.

Hands up. Walk over here. Turn around. Look away from me. Walk backwards. Keep coming. Keep coming. Stop.

Get on the ground. Get on the ground. Do not move. Do you understand me? Take him to the back of my car. All right. The plan had worked perfectly, and Paul was quickly brought to the Bozeman police station for his first formal interrogation. At this point, Paul knows exactly why he's here.

His wife had been found, murdered. He also knows that, logically, an innocent man wouldn't have that kind of information in the first place. What makes this interrogation particularly interesting is that, despite knowing this, Paul subconsciously steers the conversation towards his wife. Hi, Paul. My name's Justin. I'm at the Belgrade Police Department. Okay. Oh.

How you? Hi there. Remember, at this point, there has been no mention of Lauren whatsoever. What do you do for work? I've been to stay at home dad for a while. The hardest job there is. I had a couple of accidents, and I ended up being. switching rolls and staying home.

Yeah. Now, we're going through transition right now, though, so... Is that right? Yeah. So, what kind of a transition? We're separated. Oh. Yeah.

And in fact, she was supposed to get baby today. So it's been tough. I hurt my knee back in June, and we had a lot of problems since then, and I had surgery in August, and it's just to cause a lot of problems. The detectives still have a lot of problems. mentioned Lauren. I've had a bunch of injuries in the last few years and she's pissed off at me about that. Was it work related? I don't know what would you do before you stay at home? Well I was a school teacher for 15 years. I taught science before I moved

to Montana. Here? No, in Pensacola, Florida. Oh really? Mm-hmm. Okay. So I have a biology degree. Yeah, that's how my wife and I met. Oh, really? Yeah, she was, we both taught next door to each other. Yeah. She liked my coffee. Once again, Paul brings up his wife, unprompted. While this is interesting, it's not enough to serve his evidence, so the detectives decide it's time to apply more pressure. So the reason that I wanted to talk to you is there were some issues that happened over at Lauren's house this morning, and I just kind of wanted to touch face with you to see if

if you were over there at all, if kind of where you were this morning, that kind of thing. What happened? Well, someone broke into the back door of her place. And so, from what I understand, you guys were separated and working on a divorce, and that's, that's kind of where we're at. Sure, right. Well, uh, not, not really. She isn't. What happened? Well, the, the person that came in ended up shooting her.

So... She's dead? Yeah. So... Oh, God. So that's why we're talking to you because you guys are going through divorce and... divorce and from what I understand and that's we need to time to figure out what's going on this seems to me I don't know anything about it well let me let me

let me just say right off the bat regardless of your relational issues I love her Lauren's very important too and I'm so sorry that you're going through this right now This is... Fuck. If, let's say further to it. You think I did. I didn't do it. We gotta...

We gotta look at the big thing. I can say you didn't. I'm asking you to give us any information that you can about anything. Whether it was you or not. It's hard to tell whether Paul is genuinely anxious over his wife's passing, or if he's simply putting on a convincing act, panicking, not over grief, but over the realization that the judge Detectives are closing in on him.

Notably, Paul would quickly regain his composure and instead redirects the conversation towards Lauren, quickly painting himself as a victim of her actions. Hands are tingling. I've been having panic problems. I never had it before. Never. I didn't know what real panic attack was like. Just since you got here?

No, since we started going through this crap. Now it started in, like, July. She's going through like a midlife car. crisis. And, you know, she's staying gone. She's coming on late and drunk. I caught her cheating two days in a row. Two different people in the car, you know. And the second time I asked her to leave. While Paul may think that painting her in a bad light is a smart move, in reality, it only establishes that he had a strong motive for revenge. At this point, the detectives decide it's time to start constructing a timeline, hoping to pin Paul through a version of events they can

systematically dismantle. So is there anything you can think of, anything that would help us at all? I can't think right now. Let's just start with a basic timeline. So start with, let's say, what you do during a normal day yesterday was Saturday, right? Right. So when you woke up, were your other kids already awake? No.

Are they all three still asleep? Or you said, Jennifer, yeah. Okay, but the teenagers were in bed? Mm-hmm. That's what teenagers did. Yeah. Yeah. That's not it.

Nothing exciting. I mean, I was just in my chair all day. Okay. So you didn't, uh, I think I'm going to go to eat or anything like that? No. No, no trips outside. No, I need to go anywhere. The detective asks this question because they have CCTV footage placing pole at a gas station at 1234 a.m.

By outright denying that he left his home, it's clear that Paul is lying. However, when detectives ask the question minutes later, Paul realizes they might be setting up a trap and changes his story. So if I'm understanding me correctly, you didn't leave your house pretty much at all yesterday. Not last night. Certainly not after dinner. What time do you think you went to bed? Gosh, it was late.

Actually, it did go out. I went and got a six-pack of beer around midnight at Town Palm. Going back to the timeline last night, you went to the town pump to get a six-pack beer. And both of your oldest were still up. Mm-hmm. Yeah, sure my son went with me. Oh, you're some with me. Okay. And you guys were gone from your house, that's what, got to be 15, 20 minutes, maybe. I think if you get the light, maybe it's five times.

The fact that Paul's son, Joseph, was with him on that trip, is actually a crucial detail. Detectives now have another potential key witness who can prove or disprove Paul's movements that day. However, while this interview establishes that Paul has both a motive and a timeline that aligns with Lauren, Lawrence murder, it's not enough evidence for detectives to make an arrest. For now, they have no choice but to let Paul go. While this is unfortunate and potentially dangerous, they were able to obtain one of Paul's belongings, his iPhone. Quickly, officers discovered that Paul was in fact at Lawrence House the day of the murder

by locating a photo Paul took in front of her house just hours before her death. By combining Paul's claim that he was with his son that night, with phone data placed him at Lawrence House, a crucial question can be made. Did Paul's son, Joseph, also go into Lawrence House the night she was murdered? If what Paul said during the interrogation is true, then Joseph should have been with Paul the entire night, which would include going to Lawrence House. This is a question that detectives needed to solve, and solve fast, as both the potential suspects are roaming free and could cause further damage if the case were to come to a standstill.

So, a few hours later, Paul's son, Joseph, would be brought to the interrogation room. The plan for this interrogation was very straightforward. Simply get a timeline for where Joseph was the day of his stepmom's death and see if Joseph will admit to him, or at least his father, going to Lawrence House that night. What's the chat, man? Well, is this, I think there's a chair chatter out there. My name's Jeremy Kopp. I'm the detective sergeant for the sheriff's office.

okay obviously you know what happened to dad um given that then I need to be able

to sit down and be able to talk to you right right let's go to Saturday

and just walk me walk me through Saturday um so Saturday I got up around like maybe

12-ish, around 12. Is that kind of typical on the weekends or no? Do you like get up around like 10 maybe? Okay, okay. And then my daddy's not feeling the best, so we usually would work on Saturday with Alden. We were all of them.

But we were all over there, we were kind of sick. I didn't really feel like working here and I was kind of run down. So we just hung out all day. We were up later than we should have been. And then we stayed up for a while, and then 12 came around. And then me and my dad went on a beer run. I went with him to the town pump. Okay.

By Albertsons. Okay. And so he got a six-packed of wooded ranger. Of what? What kind? IPA. Voodie ranger. Okay.

Joseph's timeline is almost identical to that of both his father and sister, who was also interviewed. This is troubling because the detective knows the story is a lie. At some point during that time frame, Paul went to Lawrence House. That means someone isn't telling the truth. The detective would notice this and pivot, starting to ask some more direct questions to Joseph.

Did you go? I just go with him, but you guys. Yeah. Dang, you should have to add quite a bit? Yeah. You were just pretty tight. Yeah. Fair enough to say.

Whatever we do. Yeah. Okay. And then we came back to the house. And then Natalie was up until around 11. I mean, one. Okay. Maybe he went to sleep around like 7.38.

So you don't recall hearing the doors or anything open when you go to bed? Right. Nobody contacts you or anything. Okay. Despite the detective's tries, Joseph doesn't seem to budge on his story. Additionally, the suspicion that he could have been implicated in Lauren's murder at this point is fairly long-winded, so the detective decides it's best to not confront Joseph any further until more factual evidence can prove he's lying. Luckily, that evidence wouldn't take long

to present itself. Remember the bloody footprints found in the snow in Lauren's backyard? Well, a few days after the initial interviews, detectives began analyzing the footprints. to try and determine who they could be from. Immediately, detectives noticed there were two shoe prints in the snow, one noticeably larger than the other, meaning two people were implicated in Lauren's murder, one with bigger feet and one with smaller. When the prints were further analyzed,

they were confirmed to be from two different shoe models, the Walmart Interceptor Boots and the Merrill Reflex. And if we take a look at photos of Joseph taken from Paul's phone, we can see that Joseph would commonly wear the Walmart Interceptor boots. Additionally, if we look at the CCTV from the town pump gas station, we can see that Paul was wearing the Merrill Reflex. Paul had undoubtedly killed Lauren and Joseph had come along with him. Detectives realized that Joseph was the key to all of this.

He had been there with his father when Lauren was killed and now they were certain of it. In his last interview, Joseph had stuck to him. to the same timeline as his father, a timeline that investigators could now prove was a complete lie. With this leverage, detectives believed that with the right amount of pressure, they could break Joseph and force him to confess everything. Due to the intense nature of what detectives are about to do, they would bring in Joseph's biological mother, Paul's ex-wife, to provide comfort, hoping that her presence would further push him to finally tell the truth.

Please I'm going to hear you Just tell the truth I did You and I kind of You kind of talked about what Everybody had to talk about what everybody had done On Saturday

Well, I got up at me a goodish. I mean, and dad and baby and Natalie were already up with him. And he was in the living, dad who was in his chair, and he was on the couch. Maybe she's just whatever, she was. As the interview progressed, Joseph's timeline remained largely consistent with what he had stated the day before. The detective knew he wasn't getting the full. truth, and that meant it was time to apply more pressure. That's pretty accurate to what you told me yesterday, and I was hoping that today we could

you and I could break through that, and we can talk about what actually happened. Because if I, if I can't get you to be honest with me, I can't help you, but I'm not willing to give up on you. I think, I think that we can get through it. I can see the weight on you. And the only way I can help is if you and I are honest with each other, Joe, I can't, I can't help. I can't do anything if you and I are honest

with each other in here. Okay? Joe, Joe, please. Please. Please. Joe, okay. It seems to be working. Slowly, Joseph's defenses are starting to crumble. At this point, all the detective can do

is sit with him as the reality of the situation closes in. Your dad took you. Then he didn't. He wasn't alone. Didn't it was he? I don't know. I don't know. I had my boots are in my own house.

Joe, we've got to be honest with each other. I've been completely honest with you. How did your boots? They're at your room. They're at your residence. Those same prints end up at the crime scene. Joe, there's, be thoughtful, be truthful. I can't do anything if you like, I can't be truthful.

Was it just your dad? Say it, son. Joe. Come on, son. Come on, baby. Come on me. Joe. I thought you love your dad, son.

Joe. Joe. Just Come on Come on Son if you know something Just say it I don't

When did he leave Did he leave you? Did he make you go? Is that why? Did you go to Was it It was after Before the beer

I meant to the beer Joe, help me understand. Help me understand that if he's just him. Help me understand when he left. Help me understand why I can believe that you weren't there. Help me. Help me understand it. How far in the house did you go?

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Why would he's praying his old son? Why would he frame his own son, Joe? Our boobs are there. Help me. Help me. Help me tell the story. Was it you or him? Tell me.

It was him. It was him? How do you know? He was what? He usually doesn't send me to that. He did that night. I thought he was buried with him. So he sent you to bed.

He said, I love his son. He doesn't usually have you to say. He said he loves your son. I didn't know he's going to do it to me. My sister is. I didn't know. The pressure had broken Joseph. After relentless questioning, he had finally come clean about what transpired mere days earlier.

Months later, when the detective recounted this moment with Joseph, he would burst into tears overcome by the weight of the situation. We just love you right now. So just soothe your son and mom. I'm sorry. I'm my fault for letting you go. You couldn't with me. The detectives had what they wanted,

and there was nothing left to do, but finally, wrap this case up. Paul's trial would be a long and drawn-out process, stretching over two years after his arrest. During this time, he remained in the Gallatin County Detention Center, where he quickly became a problem inmate. On February 7th, roughly one month after his arrest, tensions escalated when Paul called out another inmate, Buckley, accusing him of being a liar. Buckley responded with a warning, Don't disrespect me like that. But before he could say more, Paul threw a punch, hitting Buckley in the face and sparking a full-blown fist fight.

Paul would be charged with assault following the fight, only adding to the array of charge. charges against him. Paul would eventually meet his fate on February 4th, 2020, nearly two years after his arrest. He'd be convicted of deliberate homicide, attempted deliberate homicide, and tampering with evidence, and would be sentenced to 220 years in prison without the possibility of parole. To the charge of the attempt to commit deliberate homicide of Ashley, um, he married to be guilty.