Dr. Insanity - When Suspects Are Smarter Than The Police

Episode Date: December 18, 2025

Interrogations like this don't happen often where the suspect outsmarts the detectives and knows EXACTLY what to do... but today we cover 4 cases where the suspect outsmarts the cops in interrogation Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

There aren't that many cases where the suspects are smarter than the authorities. But in these four cases, the police are completely outclassed. Mark Denklau was a gang leader accused of kidnapping, torturing, and murdering a former member. But what police didn't know is that Mark was about to completely outsmart them. In July of 2015, Robert Huggins' body was found badly beaten with a fractured skull, lacerations across the chest and missing nipples. Robert had been kicked from the Gypsy Joker Motorcycle Club just days earlier, so eventually Mark was identified as the lead suspect and brought in for interrogation.

You're with a motorcycle club. You have some affiliation with one, is that right? I don't have any answers for the questions like that. Okay. Well, the reason I'm asking is it a few months back, a gentleman named Jeff Sudan, you know him? He threw your name out in conjunction with kind of a, uh, a, uh, a reposition. of a car or a collection of a car. That sounds familiar to you?

No. Jeff Sedan almost might. I'm not sure if that seems like Savan rings a bell somewhere, but no, collections of a car. No, I don't know what we're talking about. Mark makes it clear to the cops exactly how his interrogation is going to go, stating that he simply won't be answering any questions he doesn't want to.

However, he's chosen to waive his right to an attorney, meaning he has to approach the interrogation completely on his own. his own. The coughs ask a few more questions about Mark's background, but he quickly decides they've heard enough. Okay. So this last time, how long is this? So there's my background. That's it on Nicole. What else you want to know? Is Nicole the problem here? Nicole had a, well, let me back up a little bit. How long have you been in a relationship? I'm not going to answer any more questions about Nicole. I don't have any more answers

for you until I find out what you're talking about. Okay, well, you guys brought me in. I didn't bring you in. I want to hear what you got to talk about. Well, I'm trying to get to that, but part of that's going to involve how long you've known in the call. Well, that's, you're going to, if you don't want to tell me what the heck I'm doing here, say so, because I'm not going to sit here and give you a bunch of my background, so you could play for whatever kind of game you're playing. This is kind of stupid, man. I just got picked up and treated pretty roughly. You can still see the marks on my hands. This one was completely asleep all the way here

and thrown in a room, a complete silent room there. I want to know what the heck's going on, man. Okay. Common in many cases like this, Mark hasn't been told why he's been brought in. However, he should have already put two and two together. After Robert was kicked from the gang, he broke into Mark's house, tied up and threatened Nicole, and stole a large amount of firearms as revenge. Regardless, Mark is still refusing to answer any questions, and trying his best to confirm

why he's even there in the first place. Nicole took off in a car that she may have purchased with assets. that belong to you, something like that. And then Jeff Sudan and a couple other guys kind of returned that car to you. Does that make sense, see? Or attempted to. Or attempted to.

So if we got the story wrong, can you help us out with that? Well, I'm not going to straighten your story out. No, I'm not. Not until I find out why I'm sitting here. Well, a few months before this car thing happened, Nicole was at your house, and somebody busted in the house and roughed her up a little bit, tied her up. with that. You know, I can't really answer to that. You're going to have to get that story from her.

Mark's suspicions have now been confirmed, and he's probably also linked it all the way back to Robert's death. What's interesting, though, is that his body language doesn't change at all when the cop starts to talk about the break-in. Usually you'd expect some sort of movement or obvious discomfort, but he actually remains completely still, only moving to display how ridiculous the cops' claims are. did you tell about what did happen oh god tons of people man okay you give me some examples no okay no i'm not going to sit here and name names for you man but but i'll tell you what what i don't really understand why this stuff that you're talking about with this dude and the car stuff why would that get handcuffs put on me well why would those handcuffs go on me what did i what

What did I do that was illegal in any of that stuff? What did I even have to do with it? I wasn't even there for any of it, none of it. Not anything that you've talked about so far. I was a long way away from it. So why would I get handcuffs put around my goodness for it? Fortunately for Mark, there's a very simple way to get access to all the information he's looking for. All he has to do is get a lawyer.

In a criminal case such as this one, the police are required to give an attorney all of the evidence proving the accused may be innocent or guilty. Many people have an incorrect belief that asking for a lawyer is an inherent admission of guilt, but every suspect, guilty or not, has a complete, unquestionable right to an attorney. Asking for one at any point in the investigation is completely fine and cannot be used against you in court. Over the next few minutes, the cop's question mark further about Nicole and her friends before finally deciding to bring up Robert. Part of her junkie friends? Bagger Bob?

Yeah. Yeah, I know. Yeah, I know who that is. The guy that got killed about a year and a half ago. Okay. Yeah. Was he one of the ones who set this up with Nicole? Man, you know, you're going to have to,

if you're trying to, like, tie that into this or something like that, you're going to have to talk to Nicole about that. Okay. So it was Bagger Bob one of your friends, not hers? Well, you know, like I said, you don't actually, if you know that fucking you started to bring his name into it and he got killed, now I don't think I have any other questions to answer for you. Now I think having a lawyer here might be a good idea.

Okay. Sorry. I think that'd be a good idea if you're starting to ask questions about a dead guy. Okay. Let me clarify something with you. Okay. Do you want us to keep chatting or do you want to talk to a lawyer? I need to know about it.

You can keep chatting. I'll keep listening a little longer before I call him a lawyer. Okay. Now that Robert has been brought in, Mark knows it's the right time to ask for a lawyer, but still decides against it. This is probably because he's trying to show some amount of compliance. Each time Mark says he's got nothing to say, he usually follows that up by giving police at least a small piece of information.

Mark currently has a dilemma. He must either choose whether to continue talking with the police in an effort to seem more innocent, but risks slipping up and giving them too much info, or completely shut down, and refuse to give any more information. He can't have it both ways. Now what? Well... Am I arrested for anything?

You're being detained at this point. Okay, but I'm not under arrest quite yet. That's correct. Okay, then I don't need a lawyer quite yet. Do you suspect me of something? Well, help us get this uncomputed. Because if you suspect me of doing a crime, let me know so I can get a lawyer. You know what I mean?

I don't like we have accused you of committing... No, you have. And that's why I'm still looking at these marks on my wrists and going, man, what a way to treat somebody who's not suspected of doing a crime. Okay. You know? Well, Mark doesn't seem to... realize is that they technically have accused him of a crime. In criminal law, being detained

means to hold an individual in custody if there is reasonable suspicion that they engaged in or are about to be engaged in criminal activity. Taking this at face value, the cops have just explicitly told Mark they believe he's a criminal. It's clear that Mark believes he knows what's up in the interrogation rule, but he's definitely missing out on some crucial pieces of knowledge can you clarify anything for us about bagger bought you know any stories that I tell at all about that guy to tip into club business that it's club stuff and I'm not going to go club stuff with you guys for nothing that's just it's against my rules and anything gonna happen okay even when he was out

at the club so that big a deal to tell you guys that he he stole from the club and then when he got caught for it he blamed it all in heroin, which was an automatic kickout for him. So it's not like we found out about the heroin, we found out about the stealing. And when we jumped about the stealing, he blamed it all in heroin. That's what happened. And he got kicked out of the club like anybody would. Despite telling the cops that he isn't going to say anything about Robert,

he decides to talk about him and the club for another 20 full minutes, going on huge tangents and telling random stories completely unrelated to the case. The cops then decide to take a break and leave Mark alone for a further 20 minutes, before returning once again and asking if you like a lawyer. So a few times you've, you know, mentioned maybe a lawyer, maybe not. We'd like to talk to you further, but you just want to make sure. I mean, it's your choice. If you want a lawyer, that's fine.

We'll stop communicating here. If you don't want a lawyer, you keep talking. And obviously, as the right explains. Then I must be going to get arrested or you wouldn't have me call a lawyer in here. Then definitely I want a lawyer. If I'm going to get arrested, I want a lawyer, yeah. So, like I said, I don't know what your charges are going to be. That's being determined.

Yeah, man. If there's going to be charged, so you guys are, so I just have to sit here now and I'm going to wait for you guys to decide what my chargers are going to be. What a bunch of crap, man. Why didn't you figure that out before you came and got me if you're getting charged with something? This is, I mean, it's pretty rude treatment for somebody who isn't charged with anything yet. Well, part of it was determined on what you were able to tell us, or willing to tell us. Yeah, yeah. Because you're the only one who can talk yourself out of the hole you're in.

Well, I'm a hole. Yeah. I'm not in the hole, man. Well, you guys may think I'm in a hole, but I know I'm not in a hole because have you done anything that you should be arrested for lately? I know I haven't. But it turns out, Mark was absolutely in a hole, about as deep a hole as you could manage to get. After a long legal battle, Mark and another club member, Chad Erickson, were both charged with kidnapping and torturing Robert Huggins to death. And as of 2022, we're sentenced to life behind bars.

But unlike Mark, DaBaby made the cops live. look outright stupid when he was brought in for allegedly assaulting and robbing the owner of a nightclub. DeBaby, aka Jonathan Kirk, was brought in for an interrogation. But little did the detectives know, he was about to completely outsmart them and show exactly how you should act in this situation. What you're at a fool, man? Come on. Come on. Immediately, we just want to be an easy one.

This is just a matter. Just tell you, name, they have a birth, and all that stuff. Immediately, it's obvious that this isn't going to be an easy one for the detectives. Kirk starts off by refusing to answer any of the officer's questions, even just regarding his own name. He's already been read his Miranda rights informing him that he has the right to remain silent, so it seems as though he's choosing to do just that. Interestingly, however, he is choosing to waive his rights. to a lawyer. And let's be honest here, it's not because he can't afford it. The best course

of action if you're ever put in this scenario is to stay silent and ask for a lawyer. But this time, Kirk is confident that he'll be able to wriggle out of this himself, as long as he chooses his words carefully. An incident occurred at the hotel, 1,500 Southwest 1st Island, that you were there for Correct? What incident? An incident. You had an altercation with somebody?

No. You didn't. Did you have their business given or somebody? No. You did? No. So somebody didn't bring you $20,000 in front of the hotel in your SUV? No.

Somebody had somebody bring $20,000 that wasn't theirs and lied to them and told them it was for an event of theirs on the 31st. And lied to them that person, once he realized they were doing bad business, said nigh and left for his $20,000. Okay, so you didn't count? And got my contact information to do business right way. That's what happened. No matter what time was it said? I don't know.

Every time they told you. Whatever time the camera showed me not robbing no damn body that time. Kirk is claiming that he had nothing to do with anything that happened outside. His story is somewhat unclear, but he's essentially saying that his manager was talking with an event promoter about playing at a nightclub called Cafe Iguana Pines. But it turns out the money that they were offering was stolen, and the promoter was acting strange during the deal. So instead of taking it and going through with it anyway, he told them to get their act together and left without an argument. This, of course, does not explain the altercation outside that was clearly caught on camera,

But with the footage unclear and no witnesses nearby to identify the assailants, as long as Kirk sticks to his story, theoretically, things should be perfectly fine. It's common sense. You know what I made to even be down here? A promoter booked me at that hotel. I didn't pay to be a hotel. That was paid for. You didn't let me go in my room.

You would have sold close to a quarter billion dollars, cash, legally a hard-earned money. I don't have to take nothing from nobody. Let me ask you this. I will go outside here right now and throw $10,000 in the air. Like, I do not care about no money. I don't. Was there an argument? No, it was an argument.

I didn't argue with a soul. I didn't argue with a soul. My voice was never raised. There was a tough for a fight. There was a fight? None of that. None of that. No, I didn't see no fight.

Nothing's taken. We shouldn't be in no robbery in it, bro. So, man, I get done to know what you're doing. Y'all need to do. do y'all job, I need to file y'all process, and I need to arrest whoever get you out these false allegations. This is bullshit. While it may just look like Kirk is flexing his rapper money here, this is actually a very good point for him to bring up in the situation.

If he's doing random $30,000 deals on a weekday and paying for hundreds of thousands of people per month, what does he need $80 and an iPhone for? The further he can place himself from this event, both literally and figuratively, the better. From Kirk's point of view, he was nowhere near that crime. He had no reason to commit that crime, and he has sound and reasonable explanation for his whereabouts at the time. However, from the detective's side, a crime was committed, and Kirk's vehicle was right there as it happened.

So they need to try and extract the information needed to piece his day together to come up with a story that Kirk cannot argue with. That forces him into a confession. When I encountered you in the hotel, you came back to the, the concierge, the counter. Where were you coming from at that point? Prime time, whatever, whatever the hell. I went to get you to Uber.

Where is that? You don't know? No. How'd you get there? In the car. What kind of car? What's it? The car you drove?

Somebody else drove. A Uber? Yeah. What kind of car? Small car, SUV, truck. I don't know. Let's talk about what match. What's why we're here?

Talk about what y'all need to get near about. When I'm driving in, the car, when I went to go eat, what time I went, that I don't have nothing to do with the fact I ain't robbed it down. So, me, nobody around me. There ain't nobody robbing, nobody. Let's take the word of robbery on the picture. So while we here, we're taking the word out, robbing out of the picture, y'all are robbery, that's the second word he said when he came in a robbery. Come on, bro. He told me, he asked a question to me about a robbery when I walk in my hotel, a robbery.

I had every answer to the question you need it right there. Whoa, that ain't it. That's false. I know that out the window. We're talking about robbery, bro. There's nothing for me to talk about. I didn't rob. So do you think that we just worked up this morning and decided to just...

I think y'all got a phone call from somebody. It's already a liar. I know they're a liar. Got a phone call somebody's a liar and y'all bought it. Y'all believe this. Y'all got me in here. And y'all put me in handcuffs. About me outside of hotel and handcuffs, cameras and shit all on me.

Come on, bro. This shit is bad. for what I got going on, and I ain't do shit for that, man. Even without a lawyer present, Kirk knows exactly what to do. He currently has the upper hand in this interrogation and needs to keep it that way. The cops are searching for anything that puts Kirk at the scene of the crime, but by redirecting the conversation away from that, back to what he thinks is actually important,

there's no realistic way that they'll be able to get what they need. But even though he's winning, it's still worth noting how strange it is that he's not. not asking for a lawyer. Kirk obviously knows exactly what to do in an interrogation and has clearly spent time learning what to do. If that's true, he should also know that there's next to no scenarios where lawyering up will harm his case. But whether it's an ego thing or just a lapse in his thinking, Kirk is definitely still winning this interrogation. But he's about to start absolutely dominating.

It's legally binded. Everything I do, you have to sign a contract. You got to sign a contract. It's a contract right now. The whole incident happened and nothing went wrong. Nothing happened. There was no... There was no...

There was no fight. There was no scuffle. I ain't fight nobody. I ain't fight nobody. But y'all know it's too much. Y'all know too many lies. You get what I'm saying? That's why y'all got to move backwards like that, bro.

life. You're saying it's in their lives, but you don't know what we have, we don't know. Okay. That's what we, I know. I know if y'all, I know if y'all had proof of me robbing somebody, we wouldn't even be talking. Y'all would have cuffed me. I would be charged with it. That's what I know, bro. That's what I know. Now, while this isn't necessarily true in every case, it is absolutely true here. If you're in an interrogation room and the cops are trying to find out details of the case and accusing you of a crime instead of charging you immediately, it very likely means that they're missing the details needed to charge you. In the vast majority of cases, an interrogation is only done to extract a confession

when they don't have enough evidence to easily convict you otherwise. There are a few other niche scenarios such as trying to figure out why you committed a crime, but it's often very easy to distinguish why exactly you're there based on what you know about the event and what questions they're asking. If the cops know that you're guilty and have irrefutable evidence, cooperation has a lot of merit. But if they can't prove you did what they say you did, stay silent and ask for a lawyer,

especially if you're innocent. I ain't know for you. My side of the story. I don't have a side of the story because I ain't done nothing to nobody. And before something could be done to me, and before something could be done to me, I realized I was dealing with with a bad business

and I removed my stuff. What? Why did he say it was bad business? I already told y'all that you want to rewind this? You're going to want to want it, bro. I already told you all right. My story not going to come out different no matter how many times I said, bro. It's not, bro. It's right here. When you press stop and rewind and play, I'm going

on here. Why I said it was bad business, bro. Come on, bro. There's nothing going to go on my phone up, but I'll say, y'all night. He needed my help for his event. He already was in deep, order because he's already doing and i you all saw the heiress tour now it's time to go backstage discover the story behind the phenomenal heiress tour in taylor swift the end of an era on disney plus this illuminating docu-series lifts the curtain on taylor's life as her tour made headlines and thrilled

fans around the world experienced never-before-seen footage in this streaming event for the eras including the final show in vancouver taylor swift the end of an era streaming now only on Disney Plus. Wow, he's already doing bad business. You see what I'm saying? He has an event that wasn't going to go his plan. He needed me to make up for that. He needed me to cover his ass.

So he brought in another person live to him swindled him. He thinking he'd come to book me for a whole different event. And they tricking him, got him paying me to come do a walk through the night. Come on, bro. He names full of shit. And matter of fact, check them cameras. Y'all got crime scene investigation unit out there. Jeremy, see him meet up with somebody else in the lobby.

Ask him, who's that? Ask him, follow up on what I'm telling how. That's what we're trying. I mean, shit, at the end of the day, at the end of the day, I would expect people to act on common sense anyway. The cops have realized that they're definitely not getting anything out of him for now. He's told his side of the story and made it clear that it won't be changing, no matter what they say. So, as is the protocol here, the detectives decide to leave the room and spend some time outside trying to come up with their next move.

This is also often done as it gives the suspect time alone in the room to sit and build up anxiety. In many cases, it can actually be the difference between breaking through a suspect or not. But in this case, Kirk literally just shut his eyes and went to sleep. This dude really does not care. However, it seems as though the detectives couldn't come up with their next step and decided that nothing was going to make this guy budge. The next time a detective returned, it was regarding the security of Kirk's belongings that had been left in his hotel room.

Even though he hasn't been convicted yet, he was still the prime suspect of this investigation, so he'd be spending some time in jail while they figured out what to do and gathered all the evidence they could. So they just had to figure out what to do with his stuff while he was locked. up. But obviously, Kirk refused to let them touch his stuff and just let the hotel deal with it. Kirk was facing a possible sentence of up to 15 years in prison plus a $10,000 fine, plus any charges they could slap him with for the battery. That's only if they could gather enough evidence though. Evidence they absolutely were not getting from Kirk, or the blocked

security footage that was the only evidence the crime even took place. So just after 48 hours in jail, the baby was released and sent on his way. Two months later, all charges were dropped, and he remained a free man. But Jeff Pearson's story by far trumps the others, as he wasn't a famous rapper. He was just a heroin addict. Reports began flooding into the local PD when alarm bells began to sound in a local 7-Eleven. But there was no suspect to be found anywhere close. Police decided to expand the search, and that's when they heard commotion in a nearby house.

Without any other leads, they stormed in, discovering Jeff inside, sitting next to a gun. And that's when Jeff was arrested and brought in to be interviewed. The next 24 hours were captured on police cameras within the interview room. But conversely to most footage similar to this, it was originally uploaded to the suspect's own YouTube channel on the 25th of September 2011. This is the first sign of what makes Jeff a cult figure and a legend within the interrogation community. Jeff was held in police custody for almost an entire day, but all of the footage from the third. Three interrogation sessions held barely 15 minutes.

Given that robbery and arrest took place within the state of Georgia, the usual minimum sentence would be around 10 years imprisonment, ranging up to a maximum of life without parole. But it would transpire that Jeff wouldn't end up doing a minute of this time. And instead of serving multiple decades behind bars, he spent today being served drinks and candy while delivering a master class in what to do while in police custody. The following footage shows us in stunning detail what methods the cops will try on you, and how to dodge them like an absolute pro.

The footage starts with Jeff handcuffed in a small windowless room dressed in prison scrubs. It's clear he's already been processed and spent some time in a cell, likely while the cops spent some time gathering the evidence, and prepared to question him. Am I under arrest? For now. I'm under arrest? Yeah, I'll explain everything, but before I explain my If we talk to each other, I need to read your rights, okay?

What am I under arrest for? We'll have to say I need to read your rights first. Obviously, the charges robbery, okay? Jeff immediately opens by asking if he's under arrest and on what grounds. From the first moment, it's evident that Jeff has done his research, as this is exactly what you should be doing in this situation. From here, there are two options. If you're not being arrested or detained, you can state that you're also not obligated to stay and answer questions.

questions and you should be completely free to leave the interrogation. If you are being arrested, you can then immediately ask for a lawyer and stay silent until you're provided with one. These options give you the best chance of stopping the police in their tracks and allow you to create the best defense possible. What's amusing is that when you're being arrested at America, the officer is actually legally obligated to remind you of this. Take a listen to the Miranda warning that this detective reads out to Jeff. You have the rights remain silent. say can will be used against you the court of law. Do you have the right to talk to the lawyer for advice before you question you.

If you cannot afford to hire a lawyer and you want one, a lawyer will be a provider for you. If you decide to answer questions now without a lawyer president, you'll still have the right to stop hearing some questions at any time. Does that make sense? You've probably heard these before, haven't you? These three points are incredibly important and are often overlooked by the average citizen due to the panic of being arrested in the first place. Alongside this, because of how much we hear these lines in media such as police shows,

and movies, most people completely glaze over it when they're being read these rights and fail to take into account that they're actually being provided with useful information that allows you to stay safe and protected while in police custody. What this detective didn't mention, though, is that if you ask for a lawyer while under arrest, they are not allowed to continue questioning, and you have a complete, unquestionable right to refuse to answer any questions they may ask until you're provided with an attorney. The detective also ends the rights with a snide remark about Jeff's past, meant to subconsciously remind him that he is a previously convicted criminal.

Do you understand your rights? Do you understand your rights, Jeff? Yes or no? You understand? We're getting paid more than you are, so we can sit here for a long time, man. I just need you to answer me. Yes or no, do you understand your rights? Let's get through that question. Do you understand when I read you?

Do you comprehend when I read you? Jeff has been explicitly told he has the right to remain silent. So that's exactly what he's deciding to do. Right here, the leading detective leans back in his chair. This was meant to show that he's unconcerned with Jeff's silence and that he can stay there as long as necessary. But body language like this usually indicates some form of unrest. It's clear that the detective knows that this is going to be a tricky few hours for them.

If you got something that says you didn't do this robbery, This is your chance to talk to us. Okay, good cop. No, usually I'm the prick. You look like the prick. I am. If it's dominance we're talking about, Jeff just took everything the cops had

and dumped it in that garbage can. I'm not asking if you want to talk to me at this point. I just wonder, do you understand what I read to you? So am I under arrest? Yes, you're under arrest. Get me back to the cell. I don't talk to you, motherfuckers. In this first round of interrogation, Jeff exhibited exactly the correct behavior given his current circumstances.

He knows the cops have nothing on him. They wouldn't be there talking to him in the first place if they did, so he stays silent. And so it's off back to his cell he goes. But two hours later, he's brought back to the same room for round two. Go on the coat? Yeah. You're going to be a little pop it open or any of me too? I need methadone.

You need methadone? Yeah, you guys can get me that methadone? I don't have any. Do you have a medication for it or, I mean, a prescription for it? No. What do you need methadone for? Because I'm a fucking junkie, and you guys, I can't get no methadone. A can of soda is all Jeff requested before he returned to the interrogation room,

but he immediately mentions the withdrawals that he's likely already starting to feel. However, methadone, the drug Jeff asked for at the start of this conversation, can be used to significantly reduce the effects of the withdrawal. It can even reduce the cravings he's also probably been experiencing for the entire time he's been in police custody. How long time, buddy? Ten years? Fifteen years. I hardly be there alive that long.

What are you trying to talk to me about here? Talk to you about what happened last night. Look, here's the deal. Either you're in a bad set of circumstances or you went and committed an armed robbery last night. Yeah, I'm in a shitty wrong place and wrong time, obviously. I didn't commit no fucking armed robbery. All right, then let's talk about this.

I don't talk to the police, man. Jeff is clearly through with the personal talk and wants to get back to the matter at hand. In his eyes, he's been arrested for something he didn't do and wants to get out of there as quickly as possible. I've been through the system, buddy. I know you have. I know you have, Jeff. You're not my friend. I'm not your friend.

You're trying to fucking get me. No, I'm not trying to get you. All you're trying to get is some fucking stupid-ass fucking confession and you're not going to get one. Jeff, I'm not going to get a confession out of you for nothing. Exactly, because I can do nothing. And I'm not trying to get a confession out of you. Okay.

I'm gonna tell you, I ain't commit no armed robbery, and y'all ain't got no fucking evidence saying I did. Let me go. All you did is find me sitting in my buddy's house because my fucking buddy's dog's going to ape shit. I go outside. There are cops everywhere, and they spotlight me. They say, come here.

I said, what's up? They search me. They ain't fine. Let me read this. No, because I'm not going to sign it. You don't have to sign it. But let me read it for you. I'm not signing nothing.

You don't have to sign it. The irony of this cop saying he's not trying to get Jeff while he has him handcuffed in an interrogation room questioning him is very amusing. But even through all this, every part of what Jeff said here is so perfect, it almost sounds rehearsed. It's an incredible display of personal legal defense and is even more impressive when you layer it with the fact that Jeff is almost definitely starting to experience withdrawals. I also want to highlight the point Jeff made about how cops are simply trying to force a confession. out of him. One of the main techniques used in these interrogations is the reed technique, developed by a former cop and psychologist in the 1960s after he extracted a confession from a man accused

of murdering his own wife. The technique consists of nine steps, beginning with a polite discussion about why the suspect is being accused of the crime, followed by using certain body language and actions within the interrogation as a display of guilt. The method ends with offering the suspect's two alternative statements, they can agree with, one of which is slightly more acceptable than the other. But whichever is chosen, admits guilt, and is counted as a confession. This method forces the suspect into a corner and is exceedingly good at extracting false

confessions from innocent suspects. In fact, the original case that technique was formed around fell apart after discovering that the man in fact did not kill his wife and was tricked into giving a false confession. Absolutely next level gaslighting. Tell me what happened last night. Plain and simple. Your side of the story. I'm not talking to you.

I'm not talking to you. All right. This is what I don't understand. I know, but this is what I don't understand, Jeff. You were sitting there talking just like you were ready to sit here and tell me what happened last night. And then all of a sudden I read that to you and you, screw it, I didn't talk to you. I want a lawyer. I don't understand that.

What changed? Because I told you what happened. You did. How didn't? How didn't I? You didn't tell me what happened last night? How didn't I just tell you what the time? But now you've handcuffed me and I can't talk to you because you've asked for an attorney.

So, okay, that's fine. But I will tell you right now, you're still on a hold for a robbery. I know. I don't know why. I need a fucking lawyer because obviously I didn't do nothing. And obviously you guys know I didn't do nothing because I've been arrested for the same bullshit before and you guys don't interview me this much. this much. So, wham-bam, thank you for the Coke, put me back in the cell. That's my home.

We haven't interviewed you yet. Jeff has now asked for a lawyer and is once again refusing to answer questions. But we're only halfway through this footage and Jeff's ability to defend himself and completely destroy this cop only gets better from here. Here's what the deal is. I have enough evidence of your robbery, okay? But, you know, if you're saying you didn't do it, You need to give me your side of the story I didn't do it

Okay, well give me your side of the story You gotta convince me Because I got a lot of evidence I got a lot of physical evidence Well like what? Why should I tell you that? This is where the detective starts to become Desperate.

He knows he's running out of time And so has completely abandoned Any elaborate techniques or methods To try and get information out of him He's now instead moved on to essentially Just threatening him with false claims of evidence that he can easily use to convict Jeff. If all of this was true, he'd likely be trying to use it to intimidate Jeff into panicking

and giving up more information. But instead, he uses a flimsy rhetoric, claiming that because Jeff hasn't helped him, he won't help Jeff. There's only a couple pieces of evidence I'm missing. Name him. What's that? Name him. Why don't you do that?

You haven't helped me out at all. You give me a little bit, I'll give you a little bit. bit. We go back and forth. I give you one of my piece of evidence and I give me a little something. All right? What time do you get over to Aaron's house? No, I know anything I say here can and will be used against me. Sure, but anything you say here, I can also tell your parole officer. You help me out. That doesn't mean dead. Now the detective is desperately trying to bargain with Jeff. If he helps the cops out,

they'll put in a good word with his parole officer. But Jeff immediately realizes that means absolutely nothing. What does a gold star mean if you're stuck in prison for 20 years? This further enforces the idea that cops have absolutely nothing to convict Jeff with and also shows that they know they're running out of time. Jeff has asked for a lawyer, yet they're still sitting there questioning him, as if that's not a blatant violation of the rights that they have read to Jeff on three separate occasions. They know that if they don't get anything out of him soon,

their time will run out, and Jeff is watching the clock closely. For the next four minutes of the interrogation, Jeff continues to deny and combat anything the police say to him. They bring up the gun that he was found with, continue to try and strike a deal, and even try to scare him by taunting him with what being back in prison would be like, and without any of the drugs he's grown in dependency to.

But throughout all of this, Jeff stays totally stone-faced. He knows he's almost one. I'm done. man fuck this i'm not even answering all this shit that i just said is gonna be fucking written in the discovery now right what you haven't said nothing i mean every little stupid thing that you've asked me dude is gonna be in the discovery i'm not even do discovery

the prosecutor is okay i mean you you halfway know the system how things work we halfway don't am i right i half-ass know that the only reason i came up here is you get a fucking coke. Okay. And I got it. But now I want a butter figure.

But that's not going to get for a while. What, the butter figure? Yeah. Why not? I need to go to the hospital. I'm thomping up blood. Okay. Let's go to the hospital.

For the last few hours, the police have been questioning a man who is clearly in pain, did not him access to the legal prescription drug that would help him deal with his issues, and questioning him repeatedly on a crime for which they had no evidence for. All the while, Jeff dealt with this as casually as possible, asking for sodas and chocolate bars. Jeff knew mis-speaking at any point could lead him down a slippery slope, so he exerted his rights in the perfect way, and 12 hours later, it's recorded that he was released from custody and sent on his merry way.

It's also reported that from here, Jeff Bellowsett. From here, Jeff began to turn his life around. He's off heroin and now spends his time uploading to the same YouTube channel the footage from this video was uploaded too. He makes music and even gives extra tips on how to avoid the police tricks. But what happens when the suspects think they're smarter than the detective, but get quickly put in their place? Well, that's exactly what happened to David Wright on the 17th of February 2019, when he

and his friend Christopher headed to a drug deal at 3.40 a.m. But this was no ordinary drug deal. It was actually a setup for a robbery on both sides. David demanded his buyers hand over their belongings, to which they responded by pepper-spraying Chris and running. Seconds later, David drew a revolver from his waist and fired a single shot into Raoul Quadros' chest, killing him instantly.

David and Chris fled the scene and buried the revolver in a field, and went about their nights confident there was no way they could be caught. But unfortunately, they were almost immediately identified through multiple cameras around the area everything went down in. David was brought in two days later but still believed the cops would never find him guilty and that his extraordinary intellect would carry him through the case. How wrong he was. So like I said, I mean, it's already been in the media. Four people have been arrested.

It's not like we don't know what happened to some extent, you know. But there's always more that we don't know. from every single party, right? Everybody has a little piece of the puzzle. We don't necessarily get the truth from everybody. So I would like to hear from you what happens. No. I have no clue because I've been just now hearing about this.

So. I mean, the whole, I don't know what you're talking about, is kind of out the door at this point. I've got several people who've already identified you. You're identified on video. So it's not a question of that you were there. It's more a question of what led up to this. because I don't think this is what was actually supposed to happen, right?

So you're just going to play that you have no idea what happened because you weren't there? I was not, no. Not only was David identified by multiple people through CCTV footage, but he also had no alibi and Facebook messages were recovered discussing details of the alleged drug deal. David was there at the time of the murder. The detective is just trying to uncover the details of exactly what happened and why. But David is having none of it and has a plan to outplay the detectives. It's not helpful to you, really, to just be quiet and not saying anything.

Because what I have are people who are looking out for themselves because they don't want to catch charge. So they're going to dime you off. They're not looking out for you. So you believe somebody that's going to tell you that somebody else did something to save their own ass? Well, with all the additional evidence, yes. I've been out of jail for all of a week and a half.

I've spent almost every minute of it with my girlfriend. As for, did I plan to kill anybody? Did I kill anybody? No, I didn't. So when I look at GPS on your phone, it's not going to tell me that, it's going to tell me that you're with your girlfriend the whole time, that you never were over a jack-in-the-box. It should. The only reason you might tell me that is maybe you didn't take your phone. Or maybe somebody else had my phone. It's been nothing to happen quite often, actually. My phone has been, I left it in one person's car, and it took me a day and a half to get it back.

What was that? that was earlier in the week and then i let somebody use my phone they were supposed to just go to 7-11 to go meet somebody that were selling something to an opera up and they had apparently seven or eight things that they had to do between then and when they got back to the house so what day was that i don't remember and who was that that was the guy that goes by memphis it's a nickname i think is uh first name's joe black guy david's only current at alibi and defense is that maybe somebody else had his phone and was at the drug deal instead. He also backs up his story by saying he doesn't remember exactly which day everything occurred

on, something that can't directly be proven or disproven. However, for this to be true, that person with his phone would also have to dress exactly the same as David, have access to his Facebook account, and according to his own description of the perp, change the color of his skin. It's not looking too likely. You know why you're hearing what's going on. I mean, at this point, you're literally the last person we've talked to. And the only person that has an allegiance to you is Chris. I mean, obviously people are not going to be shy about telling us who was there and who did what. And plus, we have video. There's video at the Chevron. There's video at the shell.

You know that we have all your co-suspects under arrest. All I want from you is a reason. I understand what happened. I just need to know why. The only person I know you have under arrest is Chris. Okay. We have Cody under arrest, and we have Tanna Hill. It's his name, Rain. He's in custody as well. We have his car, the car that was used, the car that was at Chevron, in our impound.

They are all under arrest. Chris is under arrest because we viewed messages on the phones. that organized picking you up the same messages from you to Cody we have them on their phone they've already viewed them we have the Facebook communications between Chris and Brianna setting up the deal that happened where you guys showed up at the Chevron and walked down this is how this plays out your girlfriend's gonna be dumb enough to provide you an alibi on a murder charge and then she's gonna get roped up in a murder as an accessory

if you care about that person you have just set her up for failure and if you want your girlfriend jammed up because you just set her up for it then that's your choice you can't threaten me with jamming her up it's not a threat man i'm just telling you how it plays out like i'm going to go talk to her and she's going to be dumb enough to lie for you when i got video evidence that you you weren't with her dude i get it like you had a quick come up right i get it i don't i don't think you you were a stone cold killer. I don't. Like, if you accidentally shot the dude because you flinched or you got scared because of something he did, now is the time. If you come up with that stuff later, nobody is going to believe a word you say. How the fuck would somebody accidentally

shoot somebody? Because if your finger's on the trigger, it's called a sympathetic reflex. It happens to the police officers all the time. I think that's a term that's been come up with just to cover their asses for shooting people. Well, you can try to make it about that. I'm talking about you. I wouldn't know. Never shot anybody. There is a lot of merit for staying silent in an interrogation like this. In fact, in most cases, it's usually the best course of action, coupled with asking for a lawyer as soon as possible. But here, David is trying to outright deny any association with the case, even though he's been directly linked to it through multiple sources.

All he's doing now is making it worse on himself and those around him. but his ego is telling him otherwise. Where do I go from here? And you're the police officer, reverse rolls. You're the cop. You're sitting over here trying to figure out if this dude has any remorse for what he did or if he's just worried about getting in trouble. How would you proceed?

I'm not worried about getting in trouble. I didn't do shit. I'll just be up front with you. We got Cody's phone. The one that shows your phone number and your address and the communications between you two. Like, I have it. I'm not trying to be a dick.

I'm just laying it out. for you because that's what I met up with somebody doesn't mean that I went with him to go do something. This seemingly plain statement actually carries more weight to it than you might realize. The detective presented David with a piece of concrete evidence that he's saying puts him dead to rights, to which he responds by confirming he had indeed met with Cody, but it went no further than that. Again, it seems like nothing. But now the detectives know this tactic works on David, they can attempt to use the wealth of other evidence they have to slowly extract a full confession from him. Okay, so when did you meet up with company then?

One, two o'clock in the morning, something like that. On what day? This Saturday or Sunday. Okay. Where did you meet up? Over by my house. Okay, and who was with him? That I don't know.

Was he alone? When I met up with him. Yes. So why did you meet up with the dude that you didn't know? Because my friend Chris had asked me to. Okay. And so what happened after that? Well, he had tried to proposition me for a handgun.

Mm-hmm. And I told him I didn't have one. Okay. So. And you say why? No. So you guys meet up, if you have this conversation, then what happens? He leaves.

And how did he leave? Well, I walked back to me. walked back to my house and he walked back to whatever vehicle he was in. Okay. Why did you leave that out when we first started talking? That might be important that the guy in the rest of the murder came to your house looking for a gun. Well, if I had given him a gun, then I think that that would be important. Well, it shows his intent. I mean, of course it's relevant to the case, right.

People buy guns for all sorts of reasons now. Yeah, but in this instance, there was a murder. So they went on their way, just... The Cody dude and did you actually talk to the other guy in the car? How does he know who you are then? Maybe my name was mentioned when they were coming to meet me. But he didn't see him. Unless he's aiming when he was parked.

Because you didn't see the car. I didn't look for the car. Unless I'm coming to meet somebody at their vehicle, I don't ask what vehicle they're in. Well, that's not. And again, don't take this a wrong way. I'm not trying to insult you, but that's not very smart. They're smart. You meet somebody to sell guns and you're not going to watch around you to see where they come and go. He was referring to me by somebody that I trust.

Okay. I would still be on my six. So you clearly have a general distrust of the police. Is that fair to say? I distrust almost everybody. Being honest with you about the information that we have, trying to give you an opportunity. opportunity. And I mean, you've already said, flat out, you don't believe that he has that information. But, I mean, with everything he's told you, you have to know that what he's telling

you is true. Whatever you have, you've got from people that may not necessarily be giving you information for the best of reasons. So take the people out of this. Take them out. Who cares about the people? We've got other stuff. Communications and all those types of things. the video. So it's not just that people are telling us this. We're not relying 100% on people. If we did that, we'd be stupid, right? I like to think I'm not that dumb. You take a totality of everything that we have. We know you're involved. And for you to sit here and just say that you don't have anything to do with it, doesn't make any sense. I think that you guys have me confused with somebody else. This interview has now been going on for over 40 minutes, and

almost no progress has been made. Forcing him into a corner with evidence doesn't seem to be working and neither does running through the events of the night or even explaining why what he's doing is a bad idea for him. So instead, the detectives almost completely switch up and begin to threaten him with the consequences of his actions on his own friends. Dude, you're not this guy. You know you're not this guy. If you were, this conversation would be different. Yeah, I'm obviously not this guy. I'm telling you. I meant the dick that is letting everybody else go down for him. I meant that type of guy. That's not you. You have a reputation as being a stand-up dude. When the weather cools down, Golden Nugget Online Casino turns up

the heat. This winner, make any moment golden and play thousands of games like her new slot wolf it up and all the fan favorite Huff and Puff games. Whether you're curled up on the couch, or ticking five between snow shovels. Play winner's hottest collection of slots. From brand new games to the classics you know and love. You can also pull up your favorite table games like blackjack, roulette, and craps. Or go for even more excitement with our library of live dealer games. Download the Golden Nugget Online Casino app and you've got everything you need to layer on the fun this winter.

In partnership with Golden Nugget Online Casino. Gambling problem, call ConX Ontario at 1-866-531-2,600. 19 and over, physically present in Ontario. Eligibility restrictions apply. See golden nuggettcasino.com for details. Please play responsibly. I think that whatever those guys did, if it leads to you believing that they were accomplices

and accessories and everything like that, would be their own fault if they fucking hang for it. Really? Even though, hypothetically, you're the person who pulled the trigger. So even though somebody else pulls the trigger, you're good with those guys going down. Your homie Chris, you're good with him going down. I get it, you know what I mean, allegiance to these other two dudes. I understand that.

You're good with Chris going down. Getting 20 years off of what you did. You're good with that. You guys have him orchestrating and setting up something like this, and that's normal. It's his own fault that you shot somebody. It's his own fault, that you didn't do things the right way. That's his fault? I can't shoot nobody.

He should put himself around better people. Okay. You know he's going to read this, right? I mean, he's going to have disclosure. It's fine. I'd much rather not see my friend get in trouble. But if by you saying that you guys want me to tell you that I did something that I didn't do, Fair enough. I don't want you to tell me that you did something you didn't do. That's not what I want. I want you to admit to what you did do. Because it's not even a question that you did it.

It wasn't a question. You wouldn't be saying you're trying to get me to admit to something I didn't do. I would because it's the right thing to do. You may not trust the police, but I don't want to jam up all these other dudes on a murder one charge for something you did. Because it's not right in my mind that other people go down for something that serious off of what somebody else did. So I do care about that. That's why I'm talking to you. Well, you're talking to the wrong guy. You don't care about those dudes? Not saying I don't care about him. I'm saying that you're talking to the wrong guy because I didn't do shit. That's not what innocent people say.

Innocent people that actually give a... Yeah, no. You know how many people I'm in that chair, man? Thousands. You don't give a... You don't give a fuck. That's you. I can enjoy your time. I don't care.

I don't have any hard feelings for you. I'm just going to move on to my next case. I just want you to know this isn't about you. This isn't personal. Like you can say you don't care, but I actually think you do. I think you're being... So, with that said, so you agree that there's nothing more to say, right?

If you don't want to talk to me, there isn't? Well, I don't want to talk to somebody that's going to keep calling me a liar. I have yet to call you a liar. You've made the implication that I'm lying to you. Because you are. But there's a difference between calling someone. a liar and then pointing out inaccuracies in their story there's a big difference one is disrespectful the other is not are i've been disrespectful to you have i been disrespectful to you have i insulted you or come at you hard or done anything he called me a liar yes you did you were lying

i'm not lying do you not freely admit that you lied to me in this interview where did i lie to you about meeting up with cody about being home not going out at all and then now you periodically are going out, would you not concede the toll that those things were lies? I don't go farther than a couple blocks from my house, on foot to meet somebody very quickly and come back. Okay. That's not what you told me.

Because you don't leave your house? I don't leave my house. I was home all weekend with my girlfriend. It's on tape, man. There ain't no secret. Dude, I've got to walk my dog. Of course I leave the house, periodic. Okay.

But as for, did I go anywhere? So you were never at Casino and Evergreen, anywhere near there within three or four blocks Saturday night. I just want to make sure that we have this down. Let's see. How far is the Starbucks on Evergreen? Which Starbucks? One on 75th. Yeah, no, I'm not talking about that.

Okay, yeah, then no, I wasn't. Okay. So you're at the Starbucks on 75th? Earlier in the evening, yeah, like 8 or 9 o'clock, something like that. Well, that's not home. Did you lie to me? I don't even get a smile out of that one. I didn't get you on that one. I feel like I got you on now. Blatently caught in a lie, it might not seem like it yet, but David is starting to get uncomfortable.

If it's not been obvious throughout the whole video, the only thing he cares about is his own ego. So now that that's been damaged, he's immediately on the back foot. And it's up to the detective to keep pushing and try to get him to move just that. little bit further. Are you with someone? Yeah. Who? Another woman.

Who is that? I'm not going to tell you that because she'd be very upset. Yeah, but it's a homicide. It can help prove that you weren't involved. How? Because if you're with her, right? That gets my timeline tighter. So you're with her from eight to win?

Not very long. Half hour at most? So you don't want to tell me who that is? I really don't. Okay. Were you in a car? You're on foot? I rode my bicycle. So, 75th? Then how'd you get home? I got a ride from her with my bicycle in the back of her SUV.

So there was a car. Did I get you there? I feel like I got you there too. I appreciate I'm just looking for honesty, man. At this point, I feel comfortable that you have lied to me several times. I'm looking for honesty so that I can rule you out. out if you asked where i was saturday night sunday morning i did yeah so sunday morning late saturday night yeah doesn't cover eight or nine o'clock in the evening oh okay so that let's rewind so saturday morning to eight o'clock where were you most of the time at home and you just lay it out for me why don't you like pull it out of you like just i'm asking where you were man so i can rule you

For the first time in an hour he's been sat in the interrogation room, David moves his hand from his lap and adjusts his cap. His hands have also been moving around very slightly, and he's been stuttering over his words. His ego has been properly bruised, and he's starting to get very uncomfortable. If provoked, narcissists such as David are likely to suddenly snap in an instinctive effort to prove that they are smart and in control, but often give up all the information the cops need to catch them dead to rights. So the detective keeps up his no-nonsense direct questions to try and get him to crack. The only places that I go, usually, I go to 7-Eleven. Okay.

The little Asian market, if, you know, we need tubes and tobacco for rolling cigarettes, but that's not very often. Okay. Walgrain. Yeah. But Saturday did you go to those places? I don't need to know where you generally go. I need to know where you went Saturday.

I probably went to 7-Eleven at some point. Any idea what time? I go when I need something or want something. I understand, but that's why I'm asking you, like, any time? Do you remember wanting or needing something on Saturday? No, I don't, because I don't feel like I need to track every one of my movements and shit like that, because I don't need to have a lock-tight schedule of what I'm doing and where I'm going. As long as I'm a DOC on Thursdays between one and three,

and I make my appointments with ideal options, then... then doesn't seem like a big deal to me where I go. Okay, unless you're being charged with murder, and it kind of is a big deal, right? Yeah, but if I don't pay attention to and keep track of these things, how the fuck am I going to tell you where I was without lying to you then? Because I don't know exactly when I was there. Well, you could at least try.

Yeah, I would try. If it can rule you out as a suspect in a homicide, I would try. Yeah, well, where I was Saturday during the day has... is no bearing on where I was Saturday night Sunday morning. It does. Absolutely does. Because I can show you wearing different clothes or I can show you wearing the same clothes. Right?

That's pretty important. Do you agree? I can show that you are with somebody else and not with these people. People change their clothes. People meet other people. Oh, no question. But if I'm chipping away at that timeline, right? It can be exculpatory for you, meaning that it excludes you as a suspect.

I know. My vernacular is very good. Sweet. So, you don't have to explain your words to me. But you can act like you're upset about that? You're not. So let's move past it. In fact that you're talking to me like I'm a child.

You're not talking to you like a child. How did I talk to you like a child? Tell me when. I think I've been to explain a word that you're using to me. Most people don't know what that word means. I apologize. People are fucking idiots. Okay.

You can pretend you're getting upset about it, but you're really not. No, what I'm getting upset about is you call me a liar. Because you lied. You lied. And I don't actually think I called you a liar. I did say you lied, but I didn't think I actually called you a liar. So I'll call it to you now so we can just move past it. You are a liar.

You have lied. Do you want to tell me what happened or not? Couldn't tell you because I don't know. Fair enough. Well, let that close the tape out for you, right man? Should have done that a long time ago and I said the conversation. time ago and I said the conversation was over. Okay.

Whatever you say, partner? And so it seems the conversation truly was over, as from then on, David refused to even say another word, choosing not to exercise his perfect vernacular anymore. And predictably, he didn't last long in court. Given that he made no attempt to defend himself

or cooperate with detectives, he was faced with the maximum possible sentence. David was also already a convicted felon with charges of arson, burglary, vehicle theft, and 35 other misdemeanors dating all the way back to 1999. So, in October of 2020, 33-year-old David Wright was sentenced to 40 years in prison without the possibility of parole.