Drama Queens - A Formal Affair • EP209

Episode Date: January 31, 2022

Joy gets emotional as she opens up about a secret she has kept from Hilarie for over 15 years. She has carried the weight of this and has felt guilty throughout their friendship.Peyton is stunning in vintage, but Hilarie is revealing why she had to count on her brother so she wouldn’t be a fashion fail. Plus she and Sophia both embellished their formal looks themselves. Can you guess which pieces were theirs? And at the formal, hair matters. How did the gals collaborate behind the scenes to set those do’s?Plus, did the Drama Queens own school dances look like the Tree Hill Formal?? The ladies weigh in. Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

somebody else better bring us in that's exactly how we're starting the episode friends joy sick joy has a cold please give us the intro in your super sexy laryngitis voice the trick is to keep breathing oh yes

air date November 16th 2004 although Lucas takes Anna as his date to the tree hill high formal. He finds himself with Brooke at the end of the night. Meanwhile, Haley's musical obligations to Chris cause her to arrive late at the formal which angers

Nathan. And Peyton finds herself struggling with the growing temptation to turn to Dun, dun, dun, on drugs. Drugs. Say not a drugs, kids. Dair. Hugs not drugs. Joy, I mean, look, I like

it. I'm into it. It was better. Yesterday it was just a sexy radio voice. Now I just sound like I'm just a little light laryngitis in the morning, you know? Now I just sound like I've been smoking my whole life. Yeah, right? That's what people always ask me. They're like, wow, you must smoke a lot. And I'm like, no, but thank you so much. No, you've got the sexy radio voice going on, Sophia. It works for you. Does it sound sick? Slow it down a little bit and talk like this. Oh, yeah. I'll be your hyper, lap dog. Hey, guys. This episode was crazy. This episode was not.

Wait, can you believe that we had back-to-back slumber party episode and formal episode? In my brain, I thought, like, it spanned a whole season. Me too. I loved it. I loved it. It's like two major occurrences. I can't believe we got so lucky to have them two weeks in a row. I think we all said this during the

watching of the episode. We all have memories of shooting this episode. Joy was, but Joy was like, I didn't go to the dance. I know, for sure. I was like, I've never been crowned prom queen in my life. I feel like I would remember if that happened in my life. No, you were. 100% were.

I can't believe you forgot that. I feel like, though, because the moment was so robbed of joy, because of the conflict between you guys, like maybe that's why it didn't resonate. It must be. And it was a crane shot. It was like they just pulled. out a whole time.

It was so rushed. Yeah, it was super rushed. And maybe it was like one of those things that was at the end of the night. I'm sure it was actually at the end of the night, the last shot of the day. Because with the confetti, it would have taken way too much to clean up. So I bet actually I probably came in for like an hour. At the end of the day, they had to wrap. And it was like, get this shot with Joy walking in. I had to go straight up to the stage.

All right. Crane shot, one camera on the ground, go. And then, you know, boom. We shot out of a can and go home. But they brought you in at four in the afternoon and probably shot you at like four in the morning. A hundred percent. You sat in that trailer all day long. You were like knitting at base camp.

I bet I was. This was a fun episode for us because anytime we all got to be together, you've heard us say this so many times. Like, it just made it special. It felt like we were all at a real slumber party together. And we got to dress up, which was nice from the. The, you know, I liked my Devo shirt in this episode. I loved your dress. How sentimental you looked like a 1950s beauty queen.

I love you guys. I loved it. The story with this dress is that they couldn't get like copies of it. So anytime you have to do stunt work or do a gag like, oh, I don't know, spilling a whole cup of something on a dress, you're supposed to have multiples. And because this was a real vintage dress, there was no way to get multiples of it. And so our director, John Asher, didn't want an extra to be the person that spilled the drink on me. Because they're like, we're not going to trust some, like, nervous kid who's a background actor. Let's just dress up one of our crew members and have them be the one that spills on her.

And so my brother was a production assistant on the show. And a baby. baby child child he's got a big leg gray beard now all the burtons grow gray very early um and so they made billy put on a tuxedo and act he might have even gotten a sag card for this because he had a line really oh because he said sorry right he said sorry i think he was trying to get like health insurance and um and so he was the one that spilled the drink all over me and when you have to be upset about something the last thing you want to want is for your little brother to be the punk ass, like spilling stuff on you. It takes you right out of the moment. You're like, dude, don't fuck it up. Well, you did a great job. Yeah, he did a good job. It was weird seeing it. I'd forgotten about that part. It's nice to talk about your performance in this episode, Hillary. It was a really nice arc, you know, from starting out happy and giddy and, you know, you really kept track of, because we shoot these all out of order.

And all the scenes are shot at different times. So you might have to be happy and joking around one minute. And then the next scene is you in the bathroom with the cocaine and the CD. And that's like serious weeping stuff. So, you know, you did a really great job tracking where Peyton was with the arc of all of it. And that's also a lot to keep track of when you're doing block shooting in a big, on a big stage where you're like in the formal where it was, I'm sure that was block shot all. can somebody, I don't want to talk too much, can somebody explain what block shooting is?

Yeah, Joy's voice is dying. So if you explain block shooting, you're the director. You too directed. I'm just a silly little actor. Just an actor that's on a powerhouse producer. Block shooting, you know, means and Joy, bringing up a great point for our friends at home, when you're in a huge room, like the one where the formal was set,

to shoot coverage, meaning if two people are facing, each other like joy let's say it's you and i work and patent are standing looking at each other it means they shoot over brook's shoulder i'm literally using all of our names haley if brook and haley it means they would they would shoot over me as brook over my back to joy and then they would shoot over joy's back over her shoulder to me and then if there's a two shot we're both 50-50 in the frame looking at each other and the cameras so it actually means you're like pinging around the over and over. So in a lot of those big, big rooms when there were big, big scenes and so many of us actors, they would block shoot. So they would shoot five scenes in one direction, like the

direction looking at Haley and whoever else was facing that way for all the scenes. Yeah, any other scene where like somebody would be maybe having the stage behind them. So any scene, if Brooke and Felix are talking or Brooke and Mouth are talking, if Mouth is standing in a position or whoever. If anyone is standing in a position in any part of that room where the stage is behind them from a certain corner, then they just rotate all the actors through the different scenes and everybody just steps on their mark and the camera has to only move minimally. Yeah, so they would shoot, let's say there were five scenes that day. They'd shoot out scene number one looking at the stage completely in all the different sizes, but they wouldn't

have to move the lights because that's a big deal when you do the lighting setups. And then they'd shoot scene five and then they'd shoot scene 19 and then they'd shoot scene 21. And then they'd go to the next set up and you'd start over at scene one so scene one scene five scene 19 and and so it's a little schizophrenic like mentally where you're like what's happening but you do this over and over and over again all day and so that's part of the reason when joy's referencing you know the ability to really track the arc you're essentially taking your character on a roller coaster but it's not continuous so you have to be able to go to the bottom and then the top and then the middle and then the end back to the beginning in a manner that's very fluid.

And so on a day, like we're referencing for Hillary doing this arc for Peyton, you're doing the fun stuff where we're getting ready in your room. And then you're moving directly into crying because you miss your mom and you don't know what's going on with the temptation all in one day. And so you have to really be able to track your arc. And it's not easy, especially when you're a kid. well we were kids and also we referenced a couple episodes ago the confessional the dare night that was really the start of all the visiting directors would watch the previous

episodes right and then they'd be like i need that moment in my episode and so i felt like i had to have these like patent breakdowns in everyone's episode even when they weren't necessarily like natural um this one was you know like i felt what peyton was feeling like i felt sad and i liked that they let me get really messy for it um i don't like when people try to stay pretty while they are falling apart yeah that just kind of like you see it a lot and certain like tv shows where it's like oh no the sky is falling but my extensions look amazing you know there's Strip is not going anywhere. Yeah, I mean, and I think that the way that we looked on our show was very different than

the stylized way a lot of young women look on teen dramas today, where, like, they have to have the perfect body and they have to have, like, you know, good posture and no cellulite. And, you know, like, all these things. Like, Peyton's body is a disaster. Like, I'm, like, no. That's not true. No, but it is, I've, Peyton's got acne and a really bad dye job and my body is not what you would see in a magazine. And I like that. And I think I, I was insecure about it while we were filming this stuff. And that was something that I put in the back of my mind like, no, you look like a real messed up teenager. Like no one looks great during their teenage years. That's when you experiment with stuff. Probably part of the other thing, one of the things that made our show so. relatable at that time when a lot of the other teen dramas were there there wasn't a lot of

that realism it was so heightened and stylized you know yeah no it was very very real for me I'm just like oh that's messy okay let's do it um I want to what about that scene in the bathroom was that um because that was those were real that was real crying that was intense you want to talk about I remember filming it and I remember just being like show me what the shot is show me how much room I have to move around and then let me go like just leave me alone because you know there was certainly stuff I was upset about um and feeling like a failure in a space where all your other friends seem to be thriving is not a good feeling and I definitely felt a lot of that season two um I didn't like I knew what my role was in

season one right it was like oh you're Peyton you're the girl between the two brothers and then in season two it there's just kind of like a vagueness about what Peyton is into or doing and um and so I felt that I felt that thing that she was feeling like being on the outside um so that That scene with Moira, I mean, was probably, that was the harder scene to shoot because not falling apart is harder than falling apart. You know what I mean? Especially when someone gives you the opportunity to fall apart and you feel it coming and you know you have to hold it in. Yeah, like the wave is going to crash. Oh, God, and the way Moira looks at you and, like, holds you, I was choked up.

Like, we're not in the scene and I'm sitting there being like, oh, God, this really, this is intense. Like, but it's beautiful to watch you because you could see the way the two of you were connecting that it was all right there and it made so much, it made it feel so poignant then when you get the drinks build on you and that that's that's what that's what breaks you know that's the straw that breaks the camel's back like it's it's beautiful the setup is beautiful well they they wrote it well this was a this was a well-crafted episode because all of us got those moments because yeah because joy you're seen where you're you know you've got the lone tear coming down your face and you're just like this is so fuck job was so beautiful like so beautiful they really gave all of

us and sophia you asking lucas like the whole line about bad guys lie to get in your bed and good guys lie to get in your heart like so let's i want to get into everybody's stuff joy let's go back and do the the haley of it all before we lose your voice entirely before you're talked out guys you know it was really hard it was really hard ordering coffee this morning behind a plastic divider and a mask with no voice. I was like miming to the lady and the espresso machine is going behind her and everybody's talking in the coffee shop and I just was like, I just started like, can I write it down? I started miming.

Can I write it? So she handed me a piece of paper. I can write down my word. Maybe. Anyway, it's beside the point. Yeah, I wasn't here for the last Drama Queen's episode. So I know that was, there was a lot of Haley singing in that. one, which I watched back and I'm horrified at the sink. Why? Because the sink was off and

there were, like, I was pitchy and I just wish I had known that I had been a little pitchy because I would have fixed it. It was just so annoying that they, you know, like, I'm a good singer. I'm annoying. Don't you feel like it's frustrating when you're not in control of the edit? It's like I can, I can tell you which of my performances was better. But you guys picked the wrong one. Or like when you, if you try and do a joke, but whoever's editing doesn't understand comedic timing and then you just look like an idiot saying a line weird way. And then you look like you're not funny.

It's so embarrassing. But Joy, can I say something? Because watching the last episode, we were obviously gushing and freaking out because when the stars go blue is such a moment in our show. And so Hillary and I were like, oh, my God, oh, my God. And I noticed, because I've literally heard you sing that song six thousand times. I heard you the first, you know, pass when Haley's in the booth. And I was like, God, Joy is so smart because she changed her key just a little.

So Tyler would have a reason to come in and tell her she hadn't hit it yet. And then in the next pass, you're in a different tone. And I was like, I was like, oh, it's just like, it's a vocal skill that not a lot of people have. So I took that as a viewer who knows you, like my own family, as a, choice you made that I thought was so smart. Oh, thanks. That was a choice because that was an octave. So I started in a higher octave.

I was like, no, you did that on purpose. I know you did. But when you hear singing together, if you go back and listen, which you won't because you don't have time. But for our listeners, if you go back and listen, when you hear us singing together, first of all, I'm a little pitchy at times when, and you can tell. And then also the sink is out of whack. So the sync of the music is off.

Yeah, the music doesn't match the words. You guys are singing. So that makes us sound like we're off key, too. It looked like you were finding it. Like it looked like you were doing the work in the room and finding it. Like it didn't read that you can't say. Well, that's good. Well, at least now I feel like coming back to this episode, I felt like we had improved.

Oh, so good. It sounded a lot better to me in this episode. So that was kind of cool. And so fun to work with Tyler again and to really see our banter. come to life, because that was the first time that Haley and Chris were alone together and just got to bounce back and forth off each other. And it was fun. It was what I thought was interesting too is Haley's always been such, we've always talked about this that she had a strong backbone and she was always willing, she never caved to peer pressure. She was always willing

to stand up for whatever it was that was important to her. And it's interesting that Chris can sort to do this little manipulation thing on her, but because I guess because the music means so much to her, it's like the one thing she can't resist like, oh, I guess, it's interesting. It was a new time. But he's a gatekeeper.

Right. And I think it makes sense because whether it's some of this stuff we've shared with each other, some of the things our fans have shared with us in reliving this show, things that I know other friends have gone through when someone's not exactly hitting on you

or didn't really cross a line or when it's really ambiguous and your work and your dreams are involved or, you know, your future plans or whatever, you can kind of, when you're not truly uncomfortable, you can make an excuse for, well, I just don't know this person or their humor that well yet. You know, you want to give people the benefit of the doubt.

And I never want to be the kind of, person who doesn't give someone the benefit of the doubt. I want to lead with that kind of optimism but with characters like Chris Keller it'll bite you in the ass. And so I think watching Haley

especially as a 16 year old trying to navigate like is this kind of just weird and like sticky and kind of annoying? Or is he you know he's got like a schickie. He's sticky. Or is

is he someone with mal intent and like we don't know yeah it doesn't seem like he is i mean that's the kind of thing about tyler he's so lovable that anything any shmarmie thing that he says sticky smarmy thing it comes off he comes off as like a lovable jerk you know it's not like felix or like dan where there's just clearly disturbed problems there right no he's different yeah and tyler being lovable informs Chris in a really interesting way. Yeah, for sure. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan

going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive

while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I also want to talk about, and it doesn't have anything to do with you're singing, but that outfit combo of the pale yellow dress and the red lips and the red jewels and the red nails. I loved it. Also, hilarious that Haley was like rushing out the door, but she, had time to do her nails and her hair. In her hair, yeah. Girl, they make press on nails. Those things exist.

It's true. You know what else? I really loved thinking about our outfits. I remember, I don't know why we were also into brooches then, but I remember finding the little brooch that we sewed into Brooke's dress because it was just like a blue dress. And then I remember, you know, you guys were trying so hard to figure out what to put with this vintage dress that was Peyton's mom's.

And somewhere in like the back of my brain, two synapses connected. And I was like, I have a brooch that's that color. The brooch. The brooch that was in your hair. Was like your personal brooch? Yes. Oh my gosh. Oh, my gosh.

Yes. Yeah, brooches were all the rage. It was in like Jane Magazine and Marie Claire. It was so cool. That was the thing. I love that. I just remember feeling so proud being like, Hillary, I found it. found your hair accessory. It looks. It's vintage. It'll look really cool.

It looks so pretty. And we were like in the hair and makeup trailer with Jojo like pinning it into your hair. And it was kind of like a slumber party meets formal moment for us in real life. And I loved it. Speaking of hair. I mean, yeah, we're not. What's cool about this is that you can see the three of us as actresses, all choosing things that are very different from one another. So we don't step on each other. Yeah. Because so. Because there's so much competition of, like, who's going to be the prettiest at the party? And for all of us to make choices about how our hair's going to look and how our dresses are going to look and how we're going to wear our makeup and stuff. And to carve out spaces for one another.

So we're all special in different ways. I like that about the aesthetics. Because it's not just saying the lines that are on the paper. Like, those choices are part of the storytelling. They are. I remember hearing once that I don't know if it was. Meg Ryan or Julia Roberts, or one of the big, one of the big rom-com girls had a rule that none of the extras in the scenes with her could have the same hair. So there couldn't be with Meg Ryan, like I think it was McRyan.

And I'm sorry if it wasn't Meg and I just got this story wrong. And it's not negative in any way. No, we'll give her credit. I just don't want to tell an incorrect story. But this is what I've heard. But yeah, so there's no other blondes in the back. background in the extras and the scene around it. And I remember the first time I heard that I was like, oh, that's so, you know, bitchy. But then I thought about it. I'm like, no, actually, there's something really smart about that. That's part of the storytelling is being able to identify and, you know, clearly see who are we looking at, who, you know, it's part of crafting, like what a director does with making sure that all the lights are in the right place and what the wardrobe designer does, making sure there's no two people in the same color and the same scene. hair does become a kind of a big deal with women in storytelling and it's worth making space

for each other in that especially when you have a haircut like Meg Ryan's haircut or Jen Annison on friends the Rachel right right everyone starts copying those haircuts right and so then what you're going to be in like a sea of Meg Ryan's and you're playing like there's Waldo I know but think about the conversation that had to be had like she or whoever this actress was if it wasn't had to go to a director or somebody and say, I don't want anybody, any other blondes in the scenes with me. And she, I'm sure, was labeled difficult for saying something like that. Right.

Rather than smart. Right. I know. Because it's a subconscious thing. If she is the focus of whoever her love interest is in the scene, she should pop for the audience the same way she pops for the love interest. Yeah. Exactly.

I know. It's interesting. But I like what you were saying. So if we did make space for each other. with hair. And that's something that I've carried with me in other jobs that I go into, especially if I'm not the lead to go and tell the hair person, like, here's how I was thinking, but if the lead actress comes in and wants to do her hair half up, half down, and mine's already that way, just come over to me and take my hair out and we'll do something else. Like,

I'm, I defer because I'm not in the lead position, you know? And I think it's important to do that. I agree. And I think it's something that when you pointed out in that way, too, you know, with what you were saying, Hill and enjoy even the way you're filling it in. One of the things I really like about it is to think about how much really shitty pressure we were getting from a lot of the grownups in the room to not make space for each other

and to not trust each other. And we still had that like, that burning little candle to be like, no, but they're my friends. I love them. And like we fought it in the ways we knew how to. made space for each other in the ways that we could at the time until we all aged together and learned better communication skills together. And like, it really touches me to see the ways that even when we felt scared and confused, we tried to figure out how we could

prioritize each other. It wasn't always like that though. So if I mean, I remember, I don't know, maybe it was for you. I remember being insecure and feeling, um, like, Like, I didn't, also because there was so much mistrust sewn in there, that I remember feeling like nobody's looking out for me, so I've got to look out for myself. So I want to do my hair this way. And I'm just going to have to, you know, put my foot down and do it, which then, you know, especially as I continue to go blonde and then curly, I'm sure created some tension with you, Hillary, that we never talked about it. But I got all my hair off, Joy. That's right. But it was, it was anytime one of us was moving.

moving into a space, we would compensate for each other and move into a different space. Like, I loved the opportunity to cut all my hair off because you were fulfilling, like, the long-cru- But you didn't feel forced to do that, like- No, I was trying to get rid of all this damage. I've always carried a little guilt that I thought you were like, I was being stubborn and I put my foot down and you were like, oh, fine, whatever, I don't want to fight with joy. I'll just do my hair the other way. No, babe, you let me off the hook. They wanted me to be the curly-haired girl. And I was trying to cut off all this damn. from season two. And I was like, look, Joy already has like the long curly hair. Please let me cut

my season three bob. Oh, I'm going to cry. I always felt a little like, a little awkward about that. Girl, hair matters. It matters. I loved my season three bob. And look back at my old my old younger self. I'm like, Joy, you're so stubborn. Why were you so stubborn? Why were you so stubborn? No. Listen, if one of you bitches comes from my gray hair, then we're going to have a problem. You know, I can't wait. You know I've been trying and no one will let me do it. No, you guys. When it's my turn, I'm coming to you for all the advice.

Yeah, listen, they give men all sorts of credit for being like salt and pepper and whatever. And so I'm going to just, I'm going to pee on that term. It's all I've ever wanted. But that dance that we all do, it's so silly to like think it's just about hair. It was about, you know, the wardrobe, about doing interviews, making sure that we rotated. Where do we feel? Where do we belong? Yeah.

Who am I? How do we differentiate ourselves? So we're individuals, but we're also together. But we're a team. Yeah. It's so hard to navigate when you're that young and they've got no guidance. Nobody teaching you how to do it. Now we get to just celebrate it. And we all, we all cheered for Sophia's bang in this.

Girl, that bang was not going to move in the beach. It's like a whole can of Aquanette. Oh, I was just about to say it, Joe. We were at the beach, the wind was crazy, and JoJo came at me with one of those hair shields and a bottle of Aquinas. What's a hair shield? Girl, tell everybody what a hair shield is. It's like a plastic. It's like a, it's what we were during COVID.

Oh, my God. No, I'm talking about the plastic, like, it was like a visor with a handle on it. Yeah, yeah. Stick around your face so people could spray bottles of hair glue on you. And yeah, that bang, I don't think it moved for a week. But it was so good. You looked like, you know, like a flamenco dancer. Like it was so sexy.

And the mermaid... Guys, remember mermaid dresses? A mermaid tail. It's so flattering. That purple is your friend. My wedding dress was a mermaid dress. I'm a fan. That's right.

I was going to say it. And then I was like, do people know that? Maybe I shouldn't. Yeah, we posted pictures. That's true. You did full lengths. Yeah, I don't know. I just remember how nice it felt for us all to be together and to be dressed up.

I have such sense memory of those scenes weirdly not of the scenes at the formal. Like we all were like there's those an Eiffel Tower there like what? We don't remember that. Such a pretty set.

I can't believe I remember. It was gorgeous. Same. But the beach, it was so memorable I think because we were there for you know, for days and days shooting those scenes and all night.

It was all out night exterior. So it was slumber parties for us. Yeah. And I loved seeing. I loved seeing some of these characters insecurities coming out. You know, Peyton really trying to figure out how to deal with her loneliness.

Brooke beginning to reveal that her nuclear emotion is the feeling of betrayal. And like when she feels betrayed, everything's off. You know, a little bit of old Nathan comes out when he feels abandoned by Haley, his one safe person

and he starts to get a little salty and he's drinking with the boy. and you started to see in the cracks of these people, and I liked it. In the cracks. That's what this whole episode is. It's all the little cracks. It really is. And when we were watching the episode and Brooke flipped out on mouth, I was like, why is she

like this? You said you had thoughts, Joy, and I want to know what they are. Yeah, well, that was it. What you just said about betrayal. I mean, everything that we've seen of Brooke up to this point indicates that she's used to being betrayed. She's used to the other shoe dropping at some point. And whether it's a perceived betrayal or a real betrayal,

it's hard when you're that young to differentiate. And I feel like Brooke just had a lot of history of that. And so at the first sign of someone, especially like mouth, a friend who she considers to be, as you say, a safe place above the other stuff. Yes. She doesn't have the wherewithal or the maturity to understand. and that, or to appreciate, rather, that he's coming to her offering this information as as a gesture of honesty.

Yes. She can't understand that yet. All she hears is, you lied to me. That's it. There's nothing beyond that because all of Brooke's walls, so far of what we've seen is that they just go up as soon as she's lied to, the walls go up. I love Brooks so much in this episode, too. Yeah.

Because she's not just, like, see, talk about an arc too, right? going through all these different emotions and dealing with the different guys and the she's just a giant open wound all over everything but she's so strong it's like it's like in william wallace coming out of the like oh she's the william wallace of prom you can take she's wearing blue she is just standing up like you can't take me down I don't care how many knives you thrust in me. I will prevail. Yeah.

Yeah, she's even cool with Anna. You know, like the boy thing is hard. My best friend has a new best friend thing is hard. And she's just kind of gracious, but firm. I mean, with Felix, she doesn't embarrass them in front of anybody else. She's like, you, back room, right now. This is how it is now. That's speech that she gives him.

She's like, oh, girl. Did that feel good? That felt good. Oh, it felt so good. It felt so good. It was a fun line to deliver. And I just, I think all my pissed off, like, pent-up feminist rage was just like, you will be the focus of this.

And it was nice because I really, yeah, I kind of felt like in that moment to really go deep on the brave heart metaphor. I really felt like I was holding a torch for so many of us, you know? and to say, like, you're not getting in my bed and you don't get my body, you don't get my heart. She really, she sets a boundary for herself. And I like the point you may enjoy that, you know, she doesn't have the adult emotional maturity yet

to necessarily see all of the nuance. But what she does do for a young person that's impressive to me is she knows she's not being respected and she's like, good, I'm out. Yeah, yeah. I deserve better than this. And I love. the strength of that, even though it's messy and even though it comes from her being hurt,

I love that she starts to say, you know, I'm, I'm throwing down a boundary. It's great. You can feel disrespect in your gut before you understand it in your head. Amen. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That is true. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story along. with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I found really revealing about this boundary is Brooke sitting on the beach alone. Yeah. And you see each of our women alone at some point. Brooks on the beach, Peyton's in her room, Haley's at home reading that letter. Oh, the letter. And that moment for for Brooke to be sitting there when Lucas comes up. And all three of us were like, oh no, don't do it. Don't make a mistake. And instead of coping with a guy she's coped with before, she has a friendly conversation. She admits to him that she feels like a joke. She says the bad guys lie to get in your bed

and the good guys lie to get in your heart. And yes, she's talking about Felix and she's talking about Lucas, but she's also talking about mouth. And the way that he offers her a perspective. Yeah, what was his question? Oh, it was so good. He talks to her about how you're not a joke. He says, people lie because they don't know who they are. And you do, Brooke. And everybody else is lying because they hope that no one figures out who they are before they figure it out themselves. And I just, what a profound moment for these kids to have. That's so true, actually. Am I wrong? But Brooke has really only lied intentionally out. like out of a strategy almost. I don't know that I've seen Brooke lie out of insecurity at any point in these two seasons.

Wow. I don't think so either, yeah. And what an interesting thing, because Brooke witnesses Haley's lie about working with Chris Keller. Out of an insecurity. In the supper party episode and is like, huh. Yeah. Interesting. And so all these people are trying to figure out how to tell them.

the truth. And Peyton tells the truth to Anna. You know, when, when Anna confronts her about the cocaine and says, well, is it about this, about Jake? And you say, yeah, that and everything else, that killed me. A kid acknowledging that things have piled up and just made them feel so sad. Because things do pile up. If you don't fix it, it becomes like a speed bump. And then one more thing piles up. And one more thing piles up. And it becomes a barricade. And so you've got to fix the speed bump. That's an easy thing to handle. So the other stuff doesn't accumulate. I'm still trying to figure out how Anna got her drunk ass to Peyton's house. Because there was so much emotional work in this episode that like the functional stuff, they're like, don't worry about it.

It's fine. No one cares. How did Haley paint her nails? How did Anna get to Baiton's? How did this stuff happen. We don't know. There were taxis in Tree Hill because Emmanuel, what was her character's name? Nikki. Nikki. Because Nikki took a taxi at some point, remember? She met, she met Jake outside the twin Dixie in a taxi. Took a taxi. I don't know. Yeah. Oh, that's right. The supermarket. I know. But Brooke was going to walk home. There was no Uber back then. So, yeah, I don't know. I also loved that. Like, I'm going to get home without you. And then being like, actually, I really don't talk. I love that too.

That's Brooke telling the truth. Like that's the thing. That's like the punctuation mark there. It's like I'm just going to tell the truth because I don't need to pretend that I'm tough. Get me home. I don't want to be poor. I'm good at being rich. Yeah.

Help me. Help me. It's so great. What else do we have adult stuff? Was there any adult stuff in this episode? Dan told Deb the truth. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Oh my God, guys, I've said it before. You said it. And I feel guilty about it, but it's toxic. And I still am rooting for the two of them to get back together. Because I don't want them to sabotage anyone else. I do think Deb deserves better. But, like, they're very sexy together. They're very sexy.

And if they could figure it out, if they could help each other. If they could just clean out, like, that infected pus from the wound of their relationship. show it shut? They could have a little scar instead of sepsis. Like, I would root for it if they would just do the work. They need a better therapist than the one they had in season one. They really do, because Dan walks all over that therapist. They need somebody who's going to whip that man and shake. It would have been great if it was Dan and Deb had like a whitey therapist. Yeah. Well, Joy, you kept bringing up all the hippo laws that were broken. Calling Lucas. First of all, okay, he calls Lucas.

who is a minor without a parent's consent and then tells Lucas that he's got information from a different doctor that Lucas did not release his doctor right right Lucas didn't release this information then the doctor on the phone with Lucas after giving him a lecture then tells him private medical information from his father yeah yeah and then the doctor calls Dan and tells him everything that happened with Lucas. I'm like, who is this doctor? He needs to be fired. It's like not even the doctor. It's just like a drunk, you know, like

physician's assistant that's like, I don't know. They told me to make a phone call. Whatever. It's amazing. Those are the things, guys, listening at home that sometimes as actors, you read a script and you go, this is important to the device of the story.

It's completely ridiculous. It would never happen. But this is where we just have to take creative license. and say, okay, because otherwise we're going to go crazy as evidenced by the fact that we are going crazy about this 18 years later. That shit drives me crazy, though. It's so lazy because it could have been an office assistant who is like, you know, we mixed up your files, or she's chewing gum and she's watching a soap opera on TV,

and she's like, yeah, yeah, the results came in and she's talking, oh, sorry, I thought you were Lucas. You know, they just didn't want to hire somebody else. They didn't want to write it. they didn't want to spend because they built us a miniature Eiffel Tower. Yeah, that's right. That's right. That I've, okay, school dances, though, you guys were like, our school dances didn't look like this.

You said yours, never. Oh, girl. Oh, my gosh. Parkview High School dances for Drew. I'm going to post pictures this week for Parkview High School dances. Someone remind me. Yeah, me too. We're going to try to find mine.

Let's post some, like, school dance pictures because we had some pretty epic. You know, there's like a catalog, right, that you, If you were in student government, your job was to raise money all year long, and then you would buy these kits, and they would come with, like, a big backdrop and, like, some things made out of cardboard that you'd all... Oh, yeah. And so you would decorate the whole gym with these, like, themes, and on all the tables, there would be, like, I want to say we did, like, a whole, like, Arabian Nights one, and it was, like, you know, like little lamps on the tables, and, like, it was, like, beautiful. It's like my Save by the Bell dream. Every time I would watch Save by the Bell. And I was like, why are their dances so amazing?

Totally agree. You'd go to the football game on Friday night. And then Saturday morning, the student government kids would get up at like six in the morning, go to the school, decorate all day, make the balloon arches, and then go home quickly shower and then still look like at the dance. Like you could always tell who like those kids were. Tell us what songs. I want to know what song you remember.

remember the most was always played at like every school dance besides like the macarena or the funky chicken oh my god Casey and Jojo all my life that's perfect you know the second I said it you both are like I've got a sense memory yeah yeah yeah that's embarrassing and you're just like this is the slow song that I've been waiting for oh yes but it was also the era of like um like great party rap, you know? Like, I, you know, when Snoop and Tupac and Biggie, like, goes on to Jay-Z, you know, like school dances were great because the party music was great. And then you'd have, like, your slow songs, like, fine, okay, whatever. I remember going to prom and my boyfriend getting so excited because they played The Cure. And he was like, I can't believe they're playing

the Cure and, like, lost his mind. And he just, he was such a sullen boy. And he had such like a goofy grin on his face that I was kind of taken aback. I was like, I don't know if I'm attracted to you anymore. Yeah. Strange. They always played Paradise by the Dashboard Light, that meatloaf song. That song, that's when the DJ was smoking outside because that song is like 20 minutes long. Exactly.

I know. It was always so epic. And also to play in a high school dance, which is hilarious because it's all about like having sex. Hooking up in your car. In the back of the car, I'm like, how did the teachers allow this song to be played? Because they all were standing against the bleachers going like, yeah, this was a bop, this was a jam. Yeah, those songs last forever and ever. I tease my son.

We listened to 90s on 9 in the car. I've said that before. And Gus, the first time he heard that song by Bell Biv DeVoe, Poison, he was like, what is this? And now it comes on the radio Every time we get in the car And I'm like, Gus, it's your favorite song And he's like, well, it's not my favorite song But I told him when I chaperone his school dances

When he gets older, I'm going to make sure the DJ plays That girl is poison Oh, it's so good What are they saying? Oh, she'll remind us to put pictures up. Fantastic. Okay, real quick, we need to talk about high flyers Because Nathan finally reveals

Haley's lied to him about the whole Chris Keller thing but he has also lied about high flyers and the reveal. You played that reveal so good, joy. Thank you. So sweet. It was nice to see, like, I like seeing Nathan and Haley struggling for the first time. It's realistic because it's been kind of like sunshine and glitter for a while. Well, especially where their dreams are concerned, right?

Because they really succeed as a couple, but couples are made up of two individuals. Yeah. And now that their dreams are requiring potential sacrifice or anyone else being in the mix, going away for high fires or working with Chris Keller, things aren't so easy. And it's nice to see them having a little bit of the reality that so many people have to deal with when they try to be in relationships. Yeah, exactly. sacrifice is a hard thing as a kid it's a hard thing as a grownup yeah yes it is it really is i like it

i'll do it nobody does but that's why it has to be worth it i mean there's always i kind of always say like there's no there's really no such thing as freedom you're always saying no to one thing in order to say yes to another thing i mean to say i want to live life totally free with no constraints is impossible i mean we have constraints with the laws of physics and just that the universe like there's always nature there's always constraints somewhere yes so it's just a matter of figuring out which ones you're willing to live with and when which ones are worth saying goodbye to in order to or or saying hello to or whatever in order to have something else so yeah I mean that's a really hard thing to navigate in relationships as adults let alone as kids but I don't know maybe it's easier when you're young maybe it's

easier when you're, you don't have, you haven't experienced all these different options and you haven't traveled the world and been with all these different people. Maybe it's easier when you're younger and you can just say, yeah, okay, the simple thing is I love you more than I love, I don't know, whatever the thing is or I don't know, I think it's harder. I love myself more than I love any of this or you and I need to do what's best for me. But when is it what's best for me is actually what's best for us or what's best for us is what's best for me. I mean, it's just so hard. It's so confusing. Once you've lived your life a little bit, at least you can say, I've got this bag of stuff that's mine. Yeah. Right? When you're super young, it's like, oh, it's never

going to happen for me. Okay. Because I'm picking you. You know, like it's, unless you can do sort of what like what Maria Menunos was talking about in our episode with her and her husband about the way that they seem to really grow together. And she didn't have to sacrifice all that stuff. And which is again why it's so important to find a partner that, you know, that you can grow with. Because I've heard this before by people who've been married for a long time

that you're never married to the same person. Like you're married to 10 different people throughout the course of your relationship, right? If it sucks right now, wait two years. It'll be better later. You know, like, just hold on. Yeah. And I think that's true. It's like there's got to be a foundation of agreement and same values and shared, I guess shared values is the fundamental thing. But in person, you have to like each other and if you be attracted to each other. And then beyond that, you're going to both be morphing so much as life goes on. Yeah, you've got to be able to support each other in your individual pursuits, but also. feed the relationship as its own entity, right?

Well, and I think what's so beautiful, too, about if you're in that right kind of relationship, is that when you do have to make a sacrifice, you can look at the practical landscape of your life and go, I can only spin this many plates, okay. And it doesn't feel like a ding on who you are to have to spin plates not just for yourself, but also for your relationship.

And one of the people who I think is so smart about this, I don't know if we've talked about this or not, but basically referencing what you're saying, Joy, Esther Perel, you know, her whole thing, like her gazillion-time bestseller book, meeting in captivity about how people stay in relationships that are filled with desire when they've been in those relationships for decades.

She said something that I think is so beautiful. She said most people have an average, of three marriages in their adult lifetime, and the lucky ones have all three marriages in the same, with the same person. And like, I love that, that you can give yourself the permission to meet your partner,

to remarry your partner, to be mysterious again. Like, what a sick goal. That is a, yeah, I like that. I like it. I like it a lot. Do we think that Nathan's ever been hurt by a girl before? I mean, we know he was with...

Good question. Do you know what I mean? It's like he gets so... He's not a dick when he tells her to go find that letter. When he tells you, you know, Haley, like, go look at my top drawer. But you can see that he is like, I just got burned so hard. Yeah. You know?

How's he going to react? Is he going to throw walls up and, you know, be like this because that's sort of how he's gone about things but he can now because he's in it to win it he's married well and you see it coming you see something i love that james did in the episode is at first when you say you're going to be late yeah you can see him go ah and when when haley says you didn't even want to go anyway and we find out he's been fibbing to plan and then you see a horse horse and horse and The carriage. But you can kind of see him take the hit because he goes, oh, I created this. She doesn't think I wanted it go. But then when you make it and everything's supposed to be perfect

and you guys get crowned and then he hears Chris Keller, then he's like, go home and find a letter, you know? And I wonder where will he land on the scale of growing out and being, you know, angry and putting his walls up? versus, you know, being willing to meet you in the middle. I'm so curious about what happens next week. I am too. Considering we totally forgot, like, major plot points.

Everything. I forgot everything about this. But you guys, it's so fun. It's like we actually get to be fans of our own show. I know. I feel like I know what the audience felt. I'm like, God, I actually also can't wait for next week. I highly recommend everyone wait 20 years to go back and evaluate whatever job.

You'll be far nicer to yourself. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose. and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis,

who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage's Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we have any viewer questions? Oh, yeah. What we got?

Oh, I like this question. Oh, Nicole wants to know. Brooke's winks are so cute in the series. Was this your personal touch, or were you scripted to do it? That was all me, baby. The, like, the winks and the eyebrow raises and the things that just felt like her. There was such a physicality to her. And if I may say so myself, I also, I brought in, hi, friend, because that was me.

You did. Hi, friend. Yeah. Hi, boyfriend. That all came from an inside joke with me and my best friend from college. And it was really fun to, you know, put little nods to real life. Did that come from you? I've said that. I've been saying that for as long as I can remember. But it makes sense that that came from just being around you. That's so funny. I say it now. I'm like, hi, friend. Hi, friend. Yeah. I like our ticks in the show. We noticed at the beginning of the episode, we talked about how we remembered filming that scene in the mall together, like buying the dress. But it's funny, you know, we talked about editing when they cut stuff up. You don't know what take they're going to use. And it just looks like. like I'm slapping your ass like 10 times. I probably like did it once at one take and then another time at another take, but they're like, we're going to use all the ass slaps. So we need just a highlight reel of Brooke Davis Winks, of Peyton fondling other women. And enjoy what was Haley's

tick? Oh, I feel it's this right here. Oh, stop. The pouty, my double, my 11s on my eyebrows. Yeah. Done. Done. Thank you for the question, Nicole. What else do we have? Oh, and here's one from Grace. Did you have any tricks to learn lines in a hurry on set? Oof. Did you guys learn your lines the night before? Did you learn them that morning? Oh, yeah. No, I learned them really, because I was on that soap for years. So I learned my lines really fast. I mean, if I had like a character to really prep for or if I had a big monologue, but I would turn it into a song. Oh, wow. Yeah, so if I would go to a song that I knew really well, like, I don't know, whatever, buy by Miss American Pie or something. And then I would take the paragraph that I had to learn and put those words in place of the lyrics in my brain. And I would learn that way so that when I was up there talking or giving my speech, I was just running through the song in my head. And the words would just kind of come out. And I wouldn't be thinking about them.

That's amazing. Yeah, that's a good trick. That's so cool. I'm going to do that. Yeah. I mean, I worked at MTV forever, so it was like live. And you had to look at a cue card during the 30-second commercial break and then go out and just know all the information. And so.

Oh, hell. Oof. So, like, you know, I learned that morning. I don't want to, like, fixate on it too much because then it doesn't feel like it's just coming out of my mouth, you know? Because I over-rehearse. I know when I've, like, done it too much and I'm just tired and over it. And the words start to sound weird.

You're like, what does presence? What's presence? What is that word? Presence. Yeah, that's not a word. You're like, I've turned the words into shapes. They're ruined forever. Can you imagine doing a Fincher film

where you have to do, like, 120 takes? I would lose my mind. I would love to, but I also think I might have a nervous breakdown. Yeah, I know. I had an audition for one the other day, and I was like, I don't think I want to. This seems like a lot. I feel like maybe some other things instead. But no, you guys, we had a director who called us two take wonders.

They were like, you guys get it in two takes. Who called us that? I don't know. Because I remember being like so flattered by it, but also like, wait a second. Are we just like short on time? Or do you really mean that like we do it in two takes? I think we got it. We learned how to get it fast.

We all did it. we learned the really great balance between the technical and the artistry and that's something that I've always tried to remember is that there is a technical side to this and so one of the things I really like to do I like to go back to Grace's question I like to go through my script a lot top to bottom make notes work on subtext think about you know what's really being said, tie together themes from, you know, scene 12 to scene 67. Like, I really like to have the full picture of it. You've got one of those serial killer boards where you have all the red string that ties everything together. Yeah, I have this like program on my iPad. It's like

homeland. It's fully. What program? What program do you use? Oh, my God, scriptation. I will give you a tutorial. It's going to change your life. Oh, yes, please. It will change your life. And I just love it. And so for me, what I find is I want to know the story so well and the scenes really well to where I can make sure when I have jargon or a monologue that I've got it, but I can have a little bit of that freedom on the day so that the scenes, so that the dialogue hasn't turned into word shapes in my mouth.

Word shapes. That's what I hope for her. It's just word shapes. I hate it. Yeah. Love it. Word shapes. They're banned. Word shapes.

Let's spin a word shape wheel. Word shaped wheel. Who is most likely to have a nervous breakdown over their dialogue? No, that's not a desirited as well. But it could be. Ooh. Joy with your sexy voice. Who is most likely to secretly be in the CIA?

I mean. You know. It's me, right? Yeah. Joy. She's like, oh, I've been performing all over the planet with my band, but really, I'm, you know, I'm an operative that's using these gigs to gather information. I could see you doing that at, like, our Paris conventions, for sure. Yeah.

All right. Most likely to. I don't know. What character would be most likely? I mean, whatever. You don't have to choose me. It's really easy. I choose you.

I choose me. I choose you It's perfect It's like Who were the dames that did it Julia wasn't Julia child Yeah Wasn't she an operative

Who were the other like famous lady operatives? Yeah that's where she met her husband Ava Gardner Eva Gardner yeah Josephine Baker Oh yeah Mm-hmm Yeah

Performers are very good operatives Yeah You know there's a whole program In the CIA in the 60s where they would they placed agents in Hollywood as executives at a lot of the studios to push particular government agendas in movies there's a whole there's a it's there's a

there's a whole program about it you can go read it I'll send you the info it's really interesting there's a somebody somebody was just telling me and of course now I can't remember but about it was either a book or like some really in-depth article about how as soon as we once we started doing serious space missions with NASA and, like, realized we were definitely not alone in the universe. Like, the government was like,

y'all have to make some alien movies that aren't scary because people are going to freak out when they find out there's aliens. Like, we have to prepare. Is that when we got Alf on TV? They're like, give them Al. Yeah, 100%. Like, what was the... That's where we got cone heads for sure.

It's like, well, they're nice and funny. E.T. Alfe, coneheads. Yeah. Friendly aliens. So I buy it. I believe it. So good. What character, though?

I don't know, what, Karen, I guess, maybe? Yeah, what's his name? I mean, Deb's job, listen, Deb's job was always very vague. Very, very, very vague. And it dressed her out enough that she had PTSD and coming home to Dan was just more than she could handle. She turned to the pills. Oh, and remember she put on that black cat suit once?

What was this? It was the thing that's coming up. Her and Karen are on a billboard. On the billboard. Oh, my God. Deb. I'm down. down with Jeff. I buy that. We got to tell Barbara. She'll love it. I love it. Oh, you guys,

this was a fun one. I miss you. I wish we were all in party dresses together. Thank you to everyone who put up with my gravelly voice. I'm sure it was irritating to listen to you. Baby. Yeah, get better. You did great. Drink some honey. And guys, we'll see you next week. We will see you for season two. Episode 10. Don't take me for granted. Wait, I have to say one thing. This episode premiered that song by Patty Griffin, the rowing song. And it's when I fell in love with Patty Griffin. I'd never heard her voice before. But that album is so beautiful.

And if you don't know Patty Griffin, go get the 1000 Kisses album. I mean, go get all of them. But yeah, just throwing that out there for music fans, Patty Griffin. That's your bonus. Go get it, kids. Love it. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.

You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-Harendh. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Chearing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens.

You could see the smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.