Drama Queens - A Royal Mess • EP112

Episode Date: September 13, 2021

Talk about meet the parents!?! This is meet the grandparents! Joy relives the moment she met television icon Gerald McRaney aka Major Dad aka Nathan’s grandpa.A behind the scenes story about Paul Johansson feeling under the weather and powering through! The Drama Queens even reveal a tidbit, for your ears only, how this was added in to the script.A Drama Queens fan inquires about the blurred lines between chemistry on screen and off.Plus, was the cast bonded from the start or did friendships grow over time? Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama queen, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Okay, we just...

Sorry, I just almost fell out of this fucking chair! Well, you know what, we can... That's a good way to kick off the episode. There is the appropriate reaction. Guys, wow. We have just been on an emotional roller coaster, the three of us. There are things we learned about our show for the first time. There were cringes and cries and...

I mean, revelations, honestly. In episode 12, crash course in polite conversation. It was a crash all right. This show aired originally on February 3rd, 2004. Oh, we were into winter shooting, and my God, it was cold. Oh, yeah. And this one, if you recall, is about after the last episode where Larry comes home and Peyton gets time with her dad. In this one, she receives the devastating news that her dad has lost at sea.

And she and Lucas take a trip to Hilton Head, South Carolina. to identify a body that has washed ashore, which turns into an overnight and, oh, goodness. And if that wasn't enough, Droman, Nathan's grandparents come to town, don't know Deb and Dan are separated, and secrets start to be spilled. Grandma and Grandpa coming to town was a revelation for me. Majorly, we learned things we did not know.

Majorly, pardon the pun, because we had major dad, Gerald McCraney. Oh, yeah. I didn't even know. I set it up and I didn't even know. Okay, wait, I have to say how excited I was because I was a huge major dad fan. And he was married to Delta Burke and I was a big designing women fan. And Jerome McCraney was like a household name in my home growing up. And when they told me, and Tess Harper, too, by the way, from Little Girl Lost. Remember that movie, that like Lifetime movie in the 80s that everybody watched? She is an icon. Yes. Yeah. So when they told me Tess Harper and Gerald McCraney were playing Nathan's grandparents and that I got to work, I lost my mind. I lost my mind. Were you dressed up for dinner? I was so excited. And the first scene when I got to work with him was the dinner party.

And I just remember walking in and like seeing him sitting there at the dinner table waiting for our blocking rehearsal. And I was just speechless. I was so starstruck. How was it? Like could he tell that you were geeking out? I don't know. I mean, he was. It was lovely. Both of them were so, so sweet and smart. And I love just listening to their ideas on the scene and hearing the way that they spoke up about their thoughts on their characters, even though they were jumping in as a guest star, which, you know, a lot of younger people, when they come in as a guest star, they're scared to have ideas on shows because we're, you know, we're new and we just want to get along with everybody. And seeing the way of a vet, like, walks into a room and is like, no, I'm taking up here. You hired me for a reason. I have ideas. Let's talk about them. It was like so baller. So anyway, I just loved them. I feel like Joy, as your friend and Hill, I'm sure you saw this too. There's the shot when Haley walks in with Nathan and sees Royal. And I was like, that's joy.

That is Joy. Losing her mind that it's Gerald McCraney, that's you. I want to know, like, Joy, when they announced the blocking and they're like, all right, we're going to have Haley sit next to Royal. Like, I can just feel like the excitement there. I can handle that, of course. Mom, I'm sitting next to Major Dad. This is so cool. Really? But I also saw

Joy, you empowered as an actress a little bit more in this episode through your wardrobe because your outfit at that dinner felt like, like, Haley's had to wear a bunch of goofy shit on this show. Yeah. You know? And you came to impress your boyfriend's

family, and I'm sure it helped that you were also, like, game to impress these, like, totally awesome guest stars. Yeah. Do you remember picking that outfit? Because it is, like, gorgeous. Thanks. Yeah, it was very sort of, I guess it was kind of 60s, that outfit. Yeah.

I don't remember specifically the fitting, although it does make sense to me that it would have been, it's the first time we see Haley really dressed up for anything. Your hair was curled. My hair was curled. She had a little extra makeup on. She really went out of her way. And a vintage vibe on Haley makes a lot of sense. And what I liked about this, too, which you were saying, that she's, it wasn't powering as an actress, but I think it was more just that Haley was really getting to, I've been watching her come into her own over the course of the last 12 episodes and seeing that she is trying to figure out who she is, like we all did in high school.

And I'm enjoying that journey for her. Like, do I wear weird hats? Is that who I am? Do I get dressed up in vintage vibes? Like, is this who I am? You know, just experimenting with all that fun stuff that you do in high school. I think Haley really gets to, because clearly Peyton and Lucas in this storyline are doing all the grown-up stuff, like all the scandalous grown-up stuff. And I think throughout at least the beginning of the show, the first couple of seasons, Haley definitely gets to be sort of the stereotypical high school girl that people can relate to in that way.

We do get to live vicariously through Haley. Whereas, like, Brooke knows who she is. Like, Brooke is wearing juicy suits from A to Z. Yeah. You know? She's solid, yeah. Figured it out. Okay, it didn't even register with me until you just said episode 12.

Like, if this was a show that was on air today, this would be the end of the season. Oh, yeah. Like, nobody goes past 12 episodes, really anymore. So this would be the cliffhanger where everyone's like, what's going to happen? Yeah. So the fact that we're only halfway through season. Did you believe 22 episodes? It's so many shows.

I mean, and guys, we went on in later seasons to do 23 and 24. I mean, we did full years of shooting. It was so wild. And, God, yeah, I just remember, you know, our whole storyline before you guys go on your road trip, how you evolved around us, you know, fixing up your dad's old car. God, and I remember when they pulled the cover off that thing. I'm such a gearhead, and I was like, oh, my God, what's happening? I was so excited.

And then I had to be like, you can fix the starter, right? Like such a ding-dong. But I loved seeing that because I had such a sense memory of how cold we were. And I remember those nights out with that Corvette, and you and I huddled in the car under down jackets trying to get warm before they'd take them away. and we'd have to just, like, be in our t-shirts. Winter in Wilmington. What an introduction. We thought, like, it's the South.

It's the South, surely. It will be 90 degrees all year long. Wrong. It is so wet and so cold in the winter because that windchill is brutal. Yeah. I mean, you're from Virginia Hill, and I was Texas and New Jersey. But, well, Texas being the South in the winter, I knew that it was going to be cold. And I'm sure you did too from Virginia, but because it was a coastal town and we were on the water, it was a different kind of cold.

Like all the scenes where you can see our love handles, right? Yeah. I remember being so, I'm like, can I get a coat that covers my ass? Like, all my body heat goes out through my back and my butt. And I just remember like that constant fight of, can I get a coat that covers my ass? Please, a jacket. Please, please, please. Yeah.

So, okay. want to talk about my first question in this episode was, why do you think Brooke so casually backed out and let Peyton and Brooke, I mean, sorry, Peyton and Lucas go on this road trip and not just let, but like, volunteered. Like, hey, you two, go ahead and go without any reservation or concern or I was like, wow. I mean, again, I think it's a device. Like we talked about how earlier in the season, Brooke was made a device for conflict at the party. Yeah. In this episode, this road trip is the device. But I think what I liked about it,

because I'd been clamoring for, you know, her motivation, who she really is, why does she behave the way she behaves? And I think after the last episode where she says, this is what I think is happening. I think he's basically dating us both. And Peyton says, no, you need to trust yourself.

He picked you and I love you. I think she's really trying to lean in. of that. I think she's trying to trust her best friend and I think she's trying to trust her boyfriend. And I think as we're getting to learn her motivations, she's learning about herself too. And I remember thinking, well, as we watched it, it's such a moment of self-awareness to say, I'm really not good in a crisis. And it, you know, essentially, if it's your dad, I'm going to lose it and you're going to have to take care of me. And that's completely inappropriate. Right. Wow. You know, I was like, wow like yeah i loved i loved that she was willing to admit that and be honest about her fear and say like

the thing i'm going to be really good at is sitting here and answering the phone and and holding holding it down like i i trust you guys and it's awesome and i think knowing what was coming i had to lean into it extra because we knew that the whole point was we'd get to a betrayal it pains me to see how inclusive Brooke is in this episode. It's like, oh, we're going to be on a date together. Like, let's spend some quality time together fixing Peyton's dad's car. You know, like, let's go to Peyton's house. Let's check up on her.

Let's, you know, like, she got the memo that Peyton was feeling weird. She misinterpreted it as like, oh, you're feeling like a third wheel. Let me just overcompensate, which is so noble and so sweet and so endearing. And, like, did we not watch these episodes when we filmed them? I guess not. Guys, I don't think so. Because look, I mean, if you look at the episode, look how many nights we were shooting. Yeah.

We weren't home when these episodes were airing, so we wouldn't see them. You're TiVo. We had TiVo, but I would honestly like, where were you rich? I didn't want to go home and watch the show. I wanted to go home and watch I Love Lucy or like whatever the new thing was that was on, you know, some big fancy show. I was sick of I was sick of us because I was with us all day

but all these years later I'm not sick of us now I love us now I can't get another one no but it's I think we all had these moments in this episode where we were like wait what oh I mean revelatory

stuff we all miss the Dan Scott memo so let's address so Danny when they call when his mom shows up calling him Danny at the beginning of this episode, and it's Danny's birthday, and then Gerald McRaney comes in and checks on Karen. Like, these are all things that I don't remember.

Like, him checking up on Karen is indicative of something really, I don't know, subversive going on for the last, you know, how old are the kids? 16 years old? Yeah, it made me wonder, like, has he been helping to pay for Lucas's, like, future? Has he been, I mean, why is he in touch with Karen? And he said it's an old friend. And he said it sincerely. So it wasn't like he was, it wasn't ominous.

It was like they actually are in touch. But that makes sense for some narcissistic patriarch to be like trying to puppet things and pulling strings in all directions too. Well, and I wondered in that moment because Dan and Karen were together in high school. Yes. So Dan would have been living with Royal. Like what kind of a relationship Royal had with Karen? Was he mad at Dan for leaving Karen?

Did he feel like his son slighted this girl? Like it launched me into a thousand questions. Well, he's also like a great-looking man. And sometimes great-looking men just like to be adored. And so it makes sense that he would sit next to cute little Haley and her cute little sweater at dinner. It makes sense that he was probably on friendly terms. with Karen when she was the cute little girl in a cute little sweater, you know, there is that

nostalgia that certain people carry because he married his cute little wife, who probably wore a cute little sweater once. And so those kinds of patterns of, I don't know, machismo makes sense. Yeah. I also, I don't know that he, I was just thinking about what you were saying about him being there when Karen and Dan were together. And I don't know that he would have supported their relationship. I think it, but I could see his character encouraging Dan to break up with her, but then feeling guilty about it. And so like making up for it by staying in touch with Karen and trying to pay for Lucas in

some way or something. I don't know. Did we ever solve this mystery? Does it come up in future episodes? I don't know. I don't remember. I guess we're going to have to watch. I am realizing, though, in this moment where I'm like, oh, man, this is a place where Brooke

and I are really actually so similar that I didn't see then, but you being like, it's so sweet and noble, she's trying to include her. And I'm like, do you think he would have been so mad at his son for being a bad guy? And I'm like, God damn it, this is why I just, this is why I've gotten myself into so much trouble because I'm like, no, it has to be the best version of the situation. Everybody's being nice. And you are an eternal optimist, Sophia. That is real life. Just like, oh, no, his intentions are totally pure.

No, this person's being sweet. Damn it. It's striking that they cast someone that looks enough like Barbara. You know, Tess and Barbara have a very similar style in this show. And it makes sense that when faced with a choice, Danny goes with the girl that looks like his mom, especially if he's trying to win his dad's approval. And similar personalities, too. I mean, if you slap a Southern accent on Barb, you've got, there's a pretty similar vibe

going on there, tough lady. Yeah, it's true. It was also a very cool choice, I think, on the part of both our hair and makeup departments and wardrobe to style them in the same way. The morning after the big dinner, they're both in the kitchen wearing these like eggplant purple shirts. Do we think it was on purpose though? Oh yeah. Do we think it was on purpose or do you think remember we had such limited resources in season one? We had limited resources but guys I remember I remember all the way back to the beginning

there were very conscious conversations about the colors that people were put in I wore a lot of black and red and bold colors because Brooke was like a bad girl. Hill if you notice like you you were wearing a lot of white and black and that like sage green and they would always put Chad. They'd always put Chad in that blue version of a sage green. I don't know what that's called. It's like a cadet blue or something.

Heather blue. There it is. And like, so there were all these choices about what the colors that the characters were wearing represented. And then they put joy in like every fucking color all at the same time. Yeah, it was incredible. You were like a color wheel. Exactly.

Every leftover color goes on But yeah, I do. I think it was on purpose. And like you said, even when you see them at the dinner party, they kind of blew out Barbara's hair to be a little fuller like Tess's hair, you know, so that Mrs. Scott Sr. and Mrs. Scott Jr. look very, very alike. I thought that was really smart. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other names. Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey guys, it's Jana Kramer.

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I loved seeing Dan as a teenage boy. Yeah. And I really thought Paul did a nice job when making those choices and how quickly he switched from big alpha tough guy into submissive teenage boys as soon as his dad showed up. And even at the dinner table, like when Barb was, sorry, Deb was talking, and he just looked at her and gave her this look with like wide eyes and then like, look just parents. Come on, stop.

Don't throw me out of the bus. My dad's going to see. Sweet, but really good performance. It was so sharp. Paul turned in an extraordinary performance in this episode, given he was also really ill. And he got super sick during this episode, during that dinner party. And no one would know. Like, we even forgot because his performance is so strong.

And then I was like, wait a second. They had to shoot this scene really weird because Paul had to go to the hospital. Yeah, something was up. to i don't know he's just he's able to focus in a way that's really respectable and yeah i would you know i think that's why they threw in that line at the beginning of the dinner party scene did you hear tests say you don't you look sick danny which could just be like oh your dad's here and you're stressed out but i also think part of it was coverage because he was like sweating profusely oh my gosh he just used it um that's acting kids we're just going to use it we're just going to use

He is a trooper. He is nothing, if not professional and, you know, make sure that he can push through. And he's like, refuses to take anyone's pity. I kind of love that about him. I know. And because he's such a bear, but he's so tender. I know. There's like nothing better than being protected by Paul Johansson.

Oh, yeah. This is so lovely. And so in a moment where he needed support, I think it's so. sweet that the whole crew and all of you guys who were in that scene really stepped up to make sure you could shoot him out and he could go to the hospital. I mean, because this is the reality of our job, it kind of doesn't matter if you're sick. You've got to get the shots. And that can be really detrimental to people. And so, you know, you guys doing the wide shots that included everyone and then doing all of Paul's coverage. And then having Jim, who worked in the prop department, step in. Was it

Craig? Who sat in for him? Do you remember? I feel like it was Jim Nelson. I think it was Jim Nelson. And just the thought that, you know, everyone would do that is, I really think it speaks to the sort of generosity of spirit of our crew. Yeah, it was a family. Yeah, it was so special. By this point, this was the last episode we shot before Christmas break. Yeah.

Oh, yeah. Because then we all took off for like three weeks or a month and came back and Paul was better. And it was like, oh, thank God. But no one really knew how sick he'd been. It was kind of a revelation when we came back in January which makes it even more interesting to watch this episode

and be like God, he just knocked it out and even the scenes obviously the dinner scenes are so A, impressive because of his performance and B, extra impressive because you know what he was dealing with but that scene in the dealership when Gerald's Royal

Dan's dad comes in and starts kind of riding him and jabbing at him with his accomplishments in front of the customer and then, you know, punches him and he says, oh, look, you're still fit. You go, oh, my God, this is who Dan is with Nathan. And it's who Royal is with Dan.

And you realize these relationships have just generationally mirrored. And it's like... And big revelation for Nathan, too, to be... To experience that in that, like, real time to hear that come to light like that. I wrote this line down,

joy because it was my favorite line of the episode when Nathan's apologizing that Haley like witnessed all that at the dinner and Haley says it's okay it helped me understand you like bearing witness to someone else's mess is the most intimate thing you can do because without having to discuss it to death you understand the person so much more and Haley being the one person that can bear witness to what Nathan's going through. is so sweet. I mean, we've all watched each other in real life deal with some, like, terribly messy things. And I think that's why we're friends 20 years later, you know.

Haley also had my favorite line of the episode because Nathan goes and because she says, you know, now you know the truth. And Nathan goes, yeah, but I just don't know what to do with it. And Haley goes, okay. Okay. It was perfect. It was so much. I was like, also, how impressive, how good at boundaries she is.

She's like, okay, well, good luck with that. I'm going to go do my life now. She had a curfew, man. She's like, look, my parents are going to start flipping the porch light in like two seconds. No codependence here. Like, she just showed up. She was at the dinner party. Like, oh, his knees are great.

You know, like speaking up, trying to like help everybody be fine. And then goes, take some, you know, he drops her off home. And yeah, well, good luck with your part. problem. Thank you for allowing me to witness that and, um, let me know, hope that goes well for you. Good night. Let me know how it works out. Wow. I mean, is that just like having, being a part of a really big family that you naturally, I mean, because I, I'm an only child and I have no experience with that. That's so foreign to me that a young woman would be that confident and have those boundaries. Yeah. I mean, I'm not that person. I'm the one that's like, cool, let's sit here on the

porch for three hours while you talk it out, you know? Yep. Totally. I know it's four in the morning and I have to do something early but like let yeah sure what do you what else do you need yeah same who knew that we should have been taking lessons from the haley playbook and setting boundaries for ourselves girls okay we all need to get okay tattooed and then the kiss here that killed me because you go okay and then you give him a kiss like on this funny side part of the of the mouth face you know kissing you gave him like a and then you walked away and I was like God it's delicious. I mean, do you think in this moment, do you think in this moment that Haley is like reconsidering? She's like, oh, there's like three bad generations of this. Like, do I want to be dead? I think that's a legitimate question. That's, that's, I don't know. I don't think I thought of that in the moment. But if I were Haley now, I certainly would be thinking. Well, I think as adult women, we can't help but think about that now. Because we're. We're old enough that we've, we've looked at our young selves, why we were the way we were, what we carried, what we learned consciously and unconsciously.

Like, we can therapy. And now we're like, well, you know, she's looking at this generational inherited bullshit wondering if she's going to be Deb Scott. And it's like, maybe she wasn't when she was 16, but we are in this moment. Yeah, 100%. Peyton doesn't have a generational thing to look to. And so I think that is, this episode was really difficult for me because I felt like Peyton had already had to deal with so many of these, like, major traumatic, like, sad things. It's like the whole, you know, my mom is dead and now my best friend's kissing this boy. And like every episode, it gets bigger and bigger and bigger with the Peyton trauma. And so when I got the script that it was like, my dad is what now?

Like he's, oh, what? I hadn't experienced in real life like a major, like panic-inducing loss. like that. Like, my pastor had passed away, you know, and that was someone who I really respected a lot, but it wasn't my dad. And so I was just like, is this just to get me to cry again? Like, I don't know how many times I can do this because you feel like you're going to run out of ammo or run out of steam if you just do it every single episode. Yeah. And so that whole thing was so hard because in between scenes, Sophia and Chad could be like fun.

You know, like, you guys could be having fun. And I would have to just, like, sit in a corner and, like, eat altoids and, you know. And listen to sad songs. And, you know, men's all and sad songs and try to stay sad. Oh. I thought you made a really interesting choice in this episode, actually,

as an actor, because you had been doing so many, so many episodes, um, sullen and depressed. and struggling, and that's what was written for you. So that's what you were doing. And in this episode, you leaned into the vulnerability and it softened you. And there was, even though you were sad, it wasn't the kind of sad that we've been watching you do. It was, it was a, it was a much softer little girl, vulnerable, warm. It was like really seeing Peyton warm. I I think for the first time, the whole redemption thing.

They're like, everyone hates you. We're going to take away your dad now. What I thought was so interesting, though, is that in the last episode, I felt like we started to see you that way. There was something so beautiful about Larry, Peyton's dad, coming in. Yes. And we got to see you be this little girl. Yeah.

And really feel her being 16. and what it led me to see or believe was that this girl who's 16 who lives alone the angst that teenagers experience could also be armor for Peyton. This girl kind of out there alone in the world. And then as soon as her dad came back, she got to soften exactly what Joy's saying.

It was so tender and sweet. I remember having a thought during this being like, God, that's why I think they, leaned in to like Peyton in pain because the way you played it was so genuine and beautiful and it made me love you so much and and so I think that they took that moment and and really made this new freedom this new emotional vulnerability this this young girl they were like and maybe we'll take it all away and as an audience member I mean I did this episode with you and watching it now It, it wounded me so much thinking, like, please don't hurt this little girl.

You guys are both being incredibly generous. Thank you. But the thing that's really hard for me in this episode is that, yes, like, we were trying to age Peyton down, right? And show, like, this is a kid. She's just a kid. You know, she's a kid that lives alone. And like, but then to take it from like, this is a kid to now we're going to do some sexy

time stuff. Curl. Make it make sense. Oh, my God. Come on now. I just almost spit water out of my nose. It's so ridiculous. We were all like mouths agape just watching this like

she finds the where she goes back to the motel finds the bracelet. And I couldn't fathom because I didn't remember I don't remember what was going to happen. So I was like, why are they why are they going back to this motel? I mean, I loved that set. It was a beautiful set, but I just couldn't figure out, like, for what reason did they make her have the bracelet back in the motel?

That seems like such a strange scene choice. Okay, she finds a bracelet. She's sad. Like, all right. We never see the bracelet again. Yeah. And then all of a sudden, he's taking a shirt off, and he's looking at you, like, come here, baby. And it was so gross.

It's gross to me. It started in the fittings, because I was just, I was like, what? And they're like, he's going to take your shirt off. And I was like, I don't want to do that. I'm going to keep a tank top on. Right? And they're like, okay, fine. Well, let me Chad take his shirt off.

You know, for as much complaining as I've known about us having to, like, get naked, the boys also had to get naked all the time. So, you know, it was fair. But I was like, no, I'm going to wear a tank top. So Chad trying to figure out which layer to grab because I'm actually wearing three shirts. Yeah. Yeah. So him trying to.

figured that out with a big pain in the ass. But the way they described it to me to make it make sense still doesn't make any sense to me. I think they knew that Sandra Bullock was my hero. She's always been my hero. We're from Northern Virginia. Like, I remember, like, reading good housekeeping as a kid because she was on the cover. And I was like, oh, yeah, I just love her so much. And I was told that this was, like, the movie Speed, where you've been through this traumatic thing with someone and there's so much pent up angst that you can't help but fall into each other's arms at the end of it and as a 21 year old i was like okay sure you know i guess it took a lot of convincing as an almost 40 year old i'm like bullshit when i've had a bad day don't touch

me like yeah hard pass i'm keith scott just with like the glass of brown liquor just like No one talked to me. No one touched me. Also, speed is like full of adrenaline. Of course they're going to, you know, it's like the release of all the adrenaline. That's not the grief of pulling back a cheat on a course and thinking it might be your parent. By the way, even though it's not your parent, you just looked at a dead body. Like, I can't think of anything grosser.

And by the way, this person, bury this plot line, was one of your dad's coworkers. Yeah. Yeah. Right? Like, hello? What was happening? Never, never acknowledged again. How long it had been in the water?

I mean, it's just so inappropriate on so many levels. I'm going to call lazy writing on that one. I think they could have, I think they definitely could have done better. We need Peyton and Lucas to kiss again. It's time. How do we make it even crazier than the last time? But look, you never know what's going on in a writer's room because they could have had a completely different plan and that you know how sometimes the rewrites would come in or whatever.

I don't know if you remember how far in advance you had this, but it's totally possible they had a different plan. and then they got, you know, Gossip Girl did something scandalous, got a bunch of ratings, and then the network called and was like, we need more sex in this episode. And then, you know, somebody was forced to make it up. So, you know, in the defense of some of the writers in the room, you never quite know what's going on or where it's coming from. And I will say, too, that's a great point, Joy, because a lot of our writers were young. A lot of our writers didn't have, you know, tons of experience on other shows. and I think there is something really interesting

about even how they explained it to you Hill. This is not an uncommon device on screen. Two people have this really intense emotional experience and then they hook up. It's like why there's slut cops in every TV show. Slut cops is the name of a TV show I want to do, right? Because let's get down to it. So you know this.

Wow. We're going to catch some bad guys and then I'm going to lick your face. Yeah. Okay. It's the idea that a woman, the idea that a woman processes trauma through her sexuality is not something that I necessarily align with, but maybe some people do, you know? Well, yeah, everybody has different experiences, expressions, like, sure, I bet we could have a really interesting conversation with some women about this. I'm more in your camp where I'm like, I've had a really bad day.

I either want the world's most platonic hug, even if it's from my partner, or I want to be left alone and get under a gravity blanket. And then they would be like, no, this hugs me and no one else talk to me. Girl, gravity blanket sounds pleasing. Oh. I think, well, the reason it felt out of place to me is because I, when I want comfort is when I'm feeling trauma, like I need comfort because something's wrong. But in this episode, everything had kind of just been fixed.

Like, she, you know, everything was okay now. So it felt like, it just felt like a bad timing to me. It would have made way more sense in the room the night before for her to be crying, for him to be comforting her. She rolls over, like, it's just a hug. And then it just sort of happens in bed. Like, that feels much more of a natural transition rather than, like, everything's better now. Well, I think they were trying to do a bait and switch. Like, they wanted people to think it was going to happen that night.

And then it didn't. And then it's like, okay, we're in the clear. And then it was like supposed to be a sneak attack. I think this episode was really well written for all the Dan Scott stuff. Yes, for sure. And I think, you know, like Peyton constantly being faced with trauma is like a hard line to walk. But, okay, we're walking it and we're getting through it. Some people are cursed.

She's a cursed human. it's just the let's let's make her younger to then have her do some like much older stuff and shoot it in a way that is kind of graphic you know it's not graphic for cable but if these were real life 16 year olds playing these parts you couldn't do that in no way it'd be so it'd be very very frowned upon um so it just feels weird that people want to see pretend 16 year olds get down. I don't want to, 16-year-olds aren't sexy, man. I know my favorite part of that was when your hair got stuck on his necklace. That was like, that's real. How can we awkward this up? I leaned into the awkward of that for sure. But that was great. And I will, I don't know,

thinking about it, I get the device. It does work. The point is that there is a connection between these people and that figuring out, you know, love and relationships at 16 is really messy. And there was no reason you had to pull your clothes off. You could have just been making out. That's bad enough, right? Yeah. It's bad enough. For high school.

It's that, you know, we've talked about it multiple times. I'm sure that's what initially came in and they're like, let's turn it up to 11. There's always like, let's add a Brooke pervert comment. Let's, you know, we're going to put Haley and I have. And then we're going to turn Peyton up to 11. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone, we have news. Hi, we're doing a virtual event in September in honor of One Tree Hill Day.

Yes, we are. 923. Everyone in the OTH fam knows it's our favorite day. And this event is also going to benefit one of our favorite groups. us ladies are raising money for a kind campaign because they do incredible work in schools to end bullying and honestly our tree hill high school needed that yes ma'am yes so there is a lot of information forthcoming but check out looped live dot com they have everything right there and more info will be added soon so we can't wait to see you guys see you on o t h s day the drama queens are

coming to you live from the iconic beverly hilton hotel that's looped live dot com for tickets do you guys remember you're like you know when you're first in high school and you're starting to make out with boys and stuff but do you remember how awkward it was though and how like you didn't know what to you're trying to kind of copy the things you saw in the movie and shows like ours and but you know it it always felt so I mean gosh I remember one of my first French kisses I think it was my first French kiss I it was this really rich boy in our neighborhood I was kind of like the poor girl from the wrong side of the tracks. Like my house is across the street from the highway and like.

Nice, nice. Directly, you know. And, but there was this boy in my neighborhood that lived in Upper Saddle River, which was like, you know, within walking distance of where I was in Waldoch, New Jersey. And, um, you're making it sound like pretty and pink. Like they're Andy. Well, he, um, he took me on a date to the bubble lounge in, I was 17. He took me to the bubble lounge in, in my.

Manhattan. He like had a car that drove us there. Like they had a driver. Sorry, I'm going way. I'm going way off. But anyway, that was, uh, and they, we got into the champagne lounge and like, I was like, oh my, this was the first time I was ever drunk. You know, I, I drank two glasses of champagne in one sitting thinking I don't feel anything. And then I stood up in the whole room just like shifted into place. Oh my God. But, um, sorry, I'm, I'm digressing. But anyway, I want to know everything. And then the next day or another the next week or something whatever when we hung out again we were hanging out in his basement and there was a game show on tv i think it was jeopardy or something and he were sitting on the couch and he starts to kiss me and um he he like was like kissing all around he like licked all around my mouth it was like a big like a whole face it was like a whole face kiss all over and you know a sweet boy i mean we didn't know what we were doing but i definitely was like

Like, I think whatever we're doing, this isn't it. Tell us his name later because I need to Google this person. Okay, I'll tell you later. I'll tell you. I'll tell you. I'm saying, but I just remember now looking back at that, I'm going just, gosh, it was so awkward. You don't know what you're doing. You're just trying.

Like, is this what we do? We just mash our faces together. I don't know. You know, it's so sweet. I remember, like, I was a very late bloomer, and I didn't start kissing. until very late in the game. And then once I did, right, like senior year, summer, summer after senior year, I remember it being like a great thrill to teach boys who hadn't kissed anyone really how to do it. Like that was like a thing where I was like, I am going to

educate some boys that we go off into the world and make it a happier, gentler play. Amazing. Yeah. I love it. loved, I loved being like, let's slow this down. Come on. Bring it in. Gently, gently. You've done your duty to for society. That's it. I'm done. I put my time in. Congratulations, girls. You're welcome. You're welcome. No, I mean, I feel like I learned to kiss from a good kisser. I mean, that's a, that's a nice thing to be able to look back and say. I think some of the kissing on this show was not my finest work.

because I was so scared that there's like a camera right there. It's so uncomfortable. And it's like these first season kisses were my first time ever, ever doing that without actually kissing. It's like a fake kiss. You know?

So there's no tongue and your natural like muscle memory is to like kiss with tongue because that's what you've been doing. And so in this world, it's so weird. It's like guppies, man. You're like just guppies like. you know, it was so gross and weird.

I was doing a pilot. I played Paul Sorvino's daughter in a pilot when I was 14. Cool. And it was called Burning Down the House or something before the movie with Steve Martin came out. And my character, Paul Sorvino had three daughters. And my character had to make out with a boy on the couch for like a whole scene while someone else is talking. You know, so it's a sitcom. So the other person's talking and they keep looking.

back at us and we're just like still you know mashing each other's snogging so you were 14 i was 14 i might have been 15 but it was i mean i was young and i was supposed to play this teenager and the girl um gina uh oh gosh i can't remember her last name but she was so lovely and she played my older sister and i remember just sitting down with her because we had done the blocking rehearsal but you don't really kiss in blocking her you're not supposed to kiss in blocking rehearsal You're not supposed to. You're not supposed to. And you just sort of like lean in and like, you know, we're here, we're here.

You like put your faces side by side. Exactly. Thank you. Do a little cheek touch. Cheek to cheek. But I sat down next to her. I went to her dressing. I remember knocking on her door and being like, I've never done it on camera kiss before?

What am I supposed to do? I don't know what we're supposed to do. And Gino is so sweet. I'm going to look up her last name. I don't know why it's escaping me. It's my bad memory. but she was like oh no problem she sat me down and she just walked me through all of it you know it's kind of like you want to open your mouth and and just press it up against each other and you

sort of like get each up catch each other's lips a little bit but you don't want to put your tongue in each other's mouth so it just you want to make it look like your french kissing but you're not actually um she was really sweet so that's how i that's what i learned to do listen we all have to learn from somebody. Yeah. And it is an awkward thing to watch back in retro. It's so uncomfortable. I will say nothing gives me a greater giggle than when the three of us are on these

zooms together and kissing scenes come up for any of us. And we're all just like cringing and covering our faces with our hands. Like we're so horrified. And I don't know. I find it funny. Hill, she did a movie with Jeff. It was like some horror movie in a cabin with Eric Palladino, and I'm pretty sure Jeff was in it.

Well, then I'm pretty sure Jeff kissed her too, because... It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it was a does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other

native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Guys, we have some listener questions, and I really feel like I need to ask Samantha's question to the group because it's about this. She says, how do you separate acting feelings from real ones? For example, with Nathan and Haley, the chemistry and love you feel coming from you throughout the whole show is crazy.

Did it ever get confusing in real life? I'm going to go ahead and tack on a reference to earlier in the show when we were talking about the palpable chemistry between Deb Scott and Keith Scott. Barbara and Craig have such good chemistry. And it's like, I think this is actually really a good question. So Joy, take it away. Gina Phillips, by the way. Gina Phillips. Okay, so, I mean, that's why location ships start.

Locationships? That's a word? Yeah, shut up. It's like the most common. I mean, look at every, all of our favorite people on all of our favorite shows and in some of our favorite films have all day to each other. I mean, I loved, oh my God, Rachel McAdams and Ryan Gosling when they were together. was wish fulfillment. Remember when they kissed on stage at the MTV Awards?

And we all were like, the notebook is real. It's real. You know, it, yeah. I mean, we've all, we've all had our versions of that. Personally, I feel that the more friction I have with someone off camera, the better it reads on camera. Oh, yeah. Look, everyone knows. Chad and I in season one were like, you know, two budding heads.

didn't necessarily agree on anything. And we grew to get along. But in season one, because our characters were so being thrust together, and I was aware of the want for it to be real. Like, people want to think it's real. And so I was overcompensating for that. And so I'd be real shitty with Chad all the time. I guess, you know, for Samantha and so many other people, yeah, our job is to create this real world. this real chemistry, and I think, you know, sometimes it turns into something that's actually real in real life. Again, I will never get over Rachel McAdams and Ryan Bousin kissing at the MTV Awards. No, I don't. I loved it. I was a no-book fan. I loved that relationship. And, you know,

obviously not attached to it. It's no longer a thing. But I do think it is funny, man, to know sometimes people who have amazing on-screen chemistry who actually hated each other or vice versa. I've seen people. I don't know if you guys have ever seen this. I've seen real-life couples try to act together and their chemistry on-screen is so flat. And I think nothing is funnier because in life, I'm like, no, you guys are cute, but when there's a camera, you get really awkward and you lose it. When Jeff and I just did the Here's Negan episode for The Walking Dead, I had nightmares about it. Like, I, I would, like, wake up in the middle of the night in the weeks leading up to shooting that. And I was like, oh, my God, what if it goes wrong?

Like, what if it's bad? And instead we had the best time ever, and it was, like, super fun. But, boy, I'm going to tell you, like, leading up to it. And he also had, like, you know, been excited about it publicly, like, oh, my wife's coming to work to play. And, like, then I think it dawned on him, like, oh, no. What if this is bad? We've never done it before. And so now, to Samantha's point, it feels really nice to work with someone who I don't, there's

like not a boundary. You know what? You can be as like whatever as you want to be. And so, like, being able to really kiss your spouse when you're supposed to be in a kissing scene is like, oh man, we're getting away with something. That's fun. That's so fun. Yeah, it snuck up and it was really fun.

So, yeah, it's a gamble, man. There are some actors out there. Some people can create chemistry with anyone. Yeah. And other people, it doesn't matter how good looking they are. No. It's so true that there's something about just your own personal, like the things that you're attracted to in other humans.

And it's friendship chemistry as well. Yeah. And, you know, you just can't. It's hard to force it. You know what it is, Joy, you've talked about it. It's the listening. Yeah. Listening as an actor makes you a better lover, and it makes you a better friend on camera.

And I think that is the difference. And so in some of these scenes where, like, we just kind of smash together, and there isn't, like, a dialogue before. Like, Sophia, you and, like, Brooke and Lucas have had some, like, talks and then a kiss. And then Haley and Nathan have had some talks and then a kiss. And, like, Paige is, like, headbutting people, really without any kind of conversation. So it feels a little, meh, meh, I want to talk about it. It does get confusing, though. I mean, I think, especially when you work with somebody that long, I mean, for me with James, James and I always got on really well, but he was a lot younger than me.

And it just didn't really occur to me to have personal romantic feelings for him. But as a show went on and the more time we spend together, I mean, I would totally have like a romantic dream about him. wake up and be like, oh, wow, that was interesting. We're kissing all day. We're like making out and we're like being all lovy-dovey, of course it's going to work your way into its way into your subconscious. Yeah. But, no, you know, we never ever got together in real life.

And that's honestly probably what kept the chemistry alive on screen for so long, too. Yeah. Boundaries are important. They are. You need that yearning. So wait, do we have any other questions we want to hit before we do most likely? Yeah, well, let's see. We have Corinne asking, when do you think the series concept changed from Ravens to O'Too, O'Too, O'Too, O'TEH.

What was the season promo, oh, was the season one promo photo shoot awkward? And at what point did you begin to feel like actual friends and not just coworkers? Oh, wow, we have a lot of questions here. Yeah, that's a lot. Wow. Well, it changed after we shot the pilot, I think. Yeah, it was just the title. It wasn't the concept.

It was just the title. The concept, concept, it changed a little bit. Oh, did it? I mean, it went from being, it was the way it was pitched, and we've talked about this, was it was supposed to be like eight mile with like the boy from the wrong side of the tracks. It was supposed to be like, you know, very gritty drama kind of thing. All the sexy stuff came in as a direct result of the summer launch of the OC. because it was a smash hit.

I mean, it was everywhere. Everywhere. And so we were told, okay, we'll match that. But by the way, I don't know that that's a bad thing because all of a sudden, the female characters got a much bigger piece of the pie and, you know, screen time and stuff like that. So great. Give me more.

I'll take it. Yeah. Season one promo shoot, photo shoot. Oh, the one where we were laying on each other. Yeah, I was like, is that when they put us in the bed? Yeah, it was on set. We filmed that, or we shot that on a stage. Photoshoots are always awkward.

I mean, at that age, it was always awkward because we were all just, we wanted to look great. And we were all sort of, you know, all this sort of pitting us against each other was happening. Plus just the natural sense of insecurity and jealousy that I think a lot of women, and feel with young girls feel with each other and we're in an environment where we were always being compared to each other. And so I think photo shoots definitely got weird in the beginning. I think we eased up after a while. But yeah, it was a little weird. Plus laying everybody on top of each other and being like, who would we ripen off with that photo shoot? There was another show that are done. Uh-huh. Friends had done like the cover of Rolling Stone or something, all of them

in a bed. Oh, yeah. And so we did it. And then Gossip Girl did it after. after us. Like, everyone has done that cover. Every show has done that cover. It's so funny. And my actual favorite part of season one was that then to kind of tease us, all the grownups did it. So Moira and Barbara and Paul and Barry and Craig. Oh, it was genius.

So good. So they copied it. And so then there were two posters. We need to post those. We need to put that on our social media because it was genius. And Craig Sheffer wore a tank. tank top and it was I just loved it. They were so funny about it. It was so great. Yeah, I mean, I don't remember the photo shoot itself being weird. What I remember is it was the first time I'd

been airbrushed. You know, when I worked at MTV and they did like VJ photos, they didn't, you know, make us look different than we did, you know? We looked like we did on TV. But in this photo shoot, you know, we get the pictures back and like, my boobs are way bigger. Whoa, yes. Me too. Because Joy, you had on a t-shirt and Hillary and I were both in tank tops and we were like, whose boobs are these? Beats the heck out of me, man. I've been in makeup my whole life.

That was weird. And then also, I didn't realize in the editing process, you know, if you're taking a group photo and somebody else looks really good and you are making a dumb face, they'll just take your face from a different picture and smack it. it on there. And so there's one picture of Chad and I sitting on, like, Lucas's steps where my head is clearly not attached to my body. Oh, my gosh. I remember being, like, so personally upset about it. And the note, you know, from all the powers that be, you're like, honey, nobody cares. And it was so like, oh, I get it. I'm a thing that we just sell now. Like, this is like a Sears catalog, you know, buy it, don't buy it, no one cares. Yeah. Yeah, that was the editing process of when your body becomes a thing

to buy and sell and like a brand thing that was a weird concept it was also so weird to me that because there's a thing we get to do where you get the images and you have what they call them kills you have a certain number of kills

and when you're young they give you barely any but you can say like I really hate this picture of me please don't use it but what was always so strange to me was that we couldn't say what our favorite pictures were.

Oh, yeah. We couldn't say, I feel my best in this. Please use one of these 10 images that I like. They just are like, no, we pick you, we sell you, we own your image. We do what we do with your face what we want. And I still find it really weird, but it was certainly weird then. Dude, I look like I just farted in every promo picture we have, because I've always got this like going to say, like, huh? Yeah, I hate it.

our promo pictures, always the way I looked is so awkward. There's one of me out there that I see floating around all the time and I look so sort of angular and mannish and like it's too much makeup. There's like a little bit of a, I don't know. It's just this doesn't work. It always bothers me that photo. I know, and there's nothing we can do about them. There's nothing we can do.

But you know what? There's lots of bigger fish to fry in the world. Exactly. It's a champagne problem. I suppose. Our fans actually make better art for us. Like they do a great job of putting us in our best light. So thank you so much. And by the way, we've been loving your Drama Queen's artwork. Everybody, it's so fun to see that. And please keep sending us emails. Let us know what you're enjoying about the show, what you want to hear more of. And thank you so much for joining us.

Should we display some fan art for our live event? Oh, yeah. That's a great idea. Oh, yeah. You guys get it in. We're also excited because we're going to be together in real life for OTH Day. So I can't wait to squeeze you guys. You too.

You know, tickets are on sales. So you all come hang out with us. We love you. Come hang, sing along with Gavin DeGraw. And some special guests. Woo! Hey, let's spin a wheel before we go. Yeah.

I was going to say, now we know that we're all most likely to hang out. our press photos, but let's see what else we might be. Okay. Ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding, ding. Do-da-da! Ooh. Oh, we know this one. Most likely to win a Grammy.

Yes. Most likely to win a Grammy is none other than Haley, J. Scott. Bethany Joyless. Right, that's right. Yes, girl. Go, let's do that. How do we do that? I mean, honestly, we know it's like a game.

We know there's like record labels that like take people out to lunch and stuff like that. Like I'll buy whoever lunch for you to win a Grammy. I'm into it. I'm in. I'm so in. Well, I just had a meeting with a record label last week, actually, to talk about doing a country record. And just, yeah, there's some things brewing. There's some things brewing with music.

I've got a tambourine if you need some backup. Yes. I do. Say the word. Sweet. Well, you guys, this episode was traumatic across the board. I'm glad we went through it together. Well, next week is episode 13, hanging by a moment.

Hanging by a moment. There's that Grammy. Hey, baby. February 10th, 2004 on their way to drive Karen home from the airport. Karen's back. Keith and Lucas collide with an oncoming vehicle. More crashes, leaving Lucas unconscious and fight. for his life.

Drama, drama, drama. Drama queens. Okay, guys. Bye. We'll see you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H.

Or email us at Drama queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you forward. a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens dream smart girl rough girl

fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens it may look different but native culture is alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges

we aim to explore that culture somewhere along the way it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.