Drama Queens - A Slap in the Face • EP 909

Episode Date: September 29, 2025

Systems are failing, characters are cracking, and did you see that on-screen slapping?? The Drama Queens GO IN on Season 9 Episode 9 pointing out plot holes, police procedures, and even pleather!   Chase is caught doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, Brooke is being despised but we don’t know why, and Haley is seducing Dimitri with questionable clothing.   Hear why this episode left Joy in tears and the proper way to slap someone on camera!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens, drama, Queens. How are you doing joy? We missed you last week. I'm sorry. I missed it last week, although I did listen back to the episode you guys did. And it was really fun to listen to while I was making my lunch, my prepping my meals for the week. Was it okay that I accepted all of the compliments. Yes. I appreciate. I sincerely appreciate all of that. Thank you. Yeah. Okay. Cool. Thanks for stepping in. Yes. Something had to be said. You can't just leave compliments floating out in the air like that. They need to be gathered. So I appreciate you gathering them. from you can't attend the ceremony someone has to get your award that's right that's it

i had like i was just telling rob i i wish um i wish i remembered i wish i'd written down notes because as i was listening through i was like oh i want to comment on this and i want to mention that and then uh you know the the big lie that we tell ourselves that we're going to remember things that we don't write down after a certain age i don't i don't understand what happens to my brain um but yeah so i didn't write them down except i do remember that i wanted to put my hat in the ring for the listener question about snacks, which is... Say more? Yeah, she said the question was, if you could have a snack where the calories didn't count.

And I was like, oh, I want to do this one. Yeah, so bread for me too, or cheese. That my first thought was cheese, which I would have expected it to be bread, but I'm definitely going to go cheese. Because there's so many different kinds of cheeses and they all fit. on so many, they can be dessert cheeses. It could be a grilled cheese. Let me ask a question as someone who's not a big cheese connoisseur.

Can you sit down with a block of cheese the way you can sit down with a fresh loaf of bread and pretty much just house it? You can. Wow. Yes. Elena turns out of yes, yes, you can. Absolutely. I don't tend to go for blocks of cheese.

If I was going to do that, would probably be like a little wheel or something that's maybe a softer cheese. Like a silting. It's a barata for me. Oh, a whole ball of barata. Broken open. Yeah. Olive oil, salt pepper.

A lot of balsamic. Good crackers. Tomatoes if they're in season. Pruchot, though. I'll eat the whole thing. Here's the one thing I will say in this discussion that I think bread has over cheese. Like, so if you just described an amazing thing, but it is leaning on the crutch of crackers. Whereas if you get a fresh loaf of bread, you can just.

just eat that bad boy all by itself. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. I think you said like half a loaf in the morning and half a sourdough in the evening. So I was like, yes, that's all I need. That's really all I need. And to your point, Rob, bread only gets better with things, but the things are unnecessary.

I would struggle to eat a whole wheel of cheese without other things. Way to hit that soft age. Wheel. Wheel. But bread, I mean, God, it's like if you have a perfect loaf of bread, especially. fresh still warm and a little butter preferably for me a little malden salt you're done yeah that's it

you guys my mouth is watering I need us to talk about work because now I'm famished oh well what an episode this one was I'll read the thing okay we have we have we have season 9 episode 9 every breath is a bomb air date March 7th 2012

I actually think this episode is titled Broken Systems But we'll get there. Brooke and Julian take new measures to protect their family skills helps mouth get to a turning point. Chase forces, faces the consequences for defending Chuck while Clay reaches a new understanding with Logan. Pete Kowalski directed this. Ian Biggins wrote it. Ian Biggins sounds like he should be in the shire and friends with Frodo, doesn't he?

Agreed. He does. Ian Biggins. Thanks for your episode, Bud. We really loved it. Thank you so much. He did a great job. Well, this episode had a lot going on.

Joy, do you want to explain why you think it should be called broken systems? Yeah. Well, it felt like the theme to me. I mean, we've got the police letting Brooke down. We've got the government system letting down Chase and Chuck. We've got the, what's the other one? Claybrook. Oh, well, obviously the police and the systems are letting down Dan and Haley.

They can't find Nathan. and nobody seems to be really looking for him. And just feels like everywhere people are turning for help from the people that are supposed to be helping them. Nobody's doing anything. Before I forget, towards the end of the episode, the scene with Chase having his sort of tribunal with the Air Force peeps,

the lead guy, was he not our head of Transpo or something? He was one of our crew, wasn't he? Was he? She looked so familiar to me I was like I'm pretty sure Was he a transport cap? I need to go back and look for sure Because I remember to your point

Thinking oh my gosh And then thinking I'd remember When I watched the episode And now that it's the day we're recording I don't Yeah We were pulling a lot from our own Because one of the plumbers

Was Pete Koalski's son Yeah Which was so fun The middle one The second plumber to walk in The handsome young guy Yeah Yeah so it was really fun

getting toward the end because we did sort of figure out all these little places to put crew and friends and family as little Easter eggs as the show was wrapping up. But I have to go back and look. Yeah. It's super memorable face. Well, then let's go back to the beginning because that first scene, I had a laugh out loud moment in what was not a funny scene, which is Chase in the back of the police car, Chuck and his mom on the porch.

but it's it killed me because Chase is handcuffed in the back of a police car covered in another man's blood saying I'm not the one you should be arresting and I'm like sir you just beat a man with the tire iron so hard his blood is covering you you should definitely be the one getting arrested like I understand the moral point of your argument but you got to look at the visuals yeah they arrest the dad as well because I didn't see that guy the back of a car. I'm pretty sure he was, did he get escrow out in a stretcher? I didn't see him in evidence anywhere,

but it was interesting, to your point, it's almost like you can start to trace where people lose the plot a little bit because Chase is sitting there going, no, I did the heroic thing. And it's like,

but you tried to do a heroic thing, but what you actually did was assault and batteries, sir. So like, yes, you were defending a kid, but you still beat the shit out of somebody. And it's a weird suspension of reality when you're so on the side of one character that you start to lose the moral core.

I missed the scene in the previous episode. Do they show Chase, like, launching into this guy? Yes. And is he just standing in the street or is this guy, like, actually in the act of, and he's defending? No, he's not beating him because what happens is Chase goes to walk up

and Chuck comes running out of the house. So it's like Chuck is trying to like flee a scary situation. And then you see Chase walk in and then through the silhouette of the living room curtains in the window. You just see Chase like full extension all the way back and coming down violently multiple times. It's almost vaudeville in silhouette. Almost silly, but it's also to Rob's point so violent. Yeah. So it's not he's not interrupting a moment of violence and trying to get this guy to stop.

Correct. Okay, because I just want to understand if this is not, if this is like a defense situation or if this is just like he's angry and lost his head and went in after this guy. It's an enough is enough situation, I think. I also think the thought was, I think the reason the writers wrote it the way they did, having Chuck running out of the house, what they're saying is this kid is being beaten and manages to like squirrel out of his dad's grip. and Chase is coming up as Chuck is coming out of the house and they both know what's going on and I will say I appreciate that the writers, the directors

didn't force Michael May to get beat up on camera by an adult I'm glad we didn't show that I don't think violence particularly against children should ever be shown in that manner and so it's like I get it but to your point, it also puts chase in a more gray area because what you see through the shadow of the curtain is so aggressive. And then to Rob's point, they really put a hat on a hat,

splattering blood on his face like he was Jackson Pollock who'd been like painting on drugs for two days. I was like, it's so much blood that it is... Yeah. It kind of makes you giggle because it's so ridiculous and it's uncomfortable. And let's just assume they're a normal family and the dad was fully clothed. If blood is being splattered, it's going to be from his face or head. So I guess to answer the question of why we didn't see the dad, you're not walking away from that.

So he's either laying there in the floor or he's been stretchered away. But yes, just the irony of Chase has a blood-soaked shirt, blood-splattered face. And he's like, you're arresting the wrong guy. And it's like, sir. Not in this situation. His intent was gold, A plus, but his execution was a D-minus. I like that. That's a great way to put it. I guess he could have been a little more like Dan, a little more thoughtful, methodical, gone and found the guy later.

That's the thing, very impressed with Dan. And I like coming, you know, sort of full circle with our theories about who's behind Nathan's kidnapping. It's kind of interesting to be the fly on the wall in the car with Haley and Dan because Dan is explaining everything he knows to you, right? Like he's letting you in on the research and this is what I figured out and this is how I kind of got to the bottom of it. And in an interesting way, while he's telling you these details, it's showing the audience. Maybe Dan is a good guy. You know, maybe he did just get caught up in the wrong moment. Maybe he really was just threatening Clay's drug dealer and all this other stuff happened.

It still leaves that little question mark for me of, did Dan getting involved in the clay of it all really highlight, you know, Nathan to these people. So to your point though, Sophie, let me ask a question. First of all, it was so fun watching Haley pull a Jennifer Garner alias and dress up like a streetwalker. that was fun, but was that necessary? Because all you ended up doing was just getting him to walk outside and then Dan jumps him. And I kind of just felt like you put your son's wife in a very uncomfortable situation. It seems like pretty unnecessarily to just grab a guy behind a dumpster in broad daylight and beat him to death and kidnap him. Yeah, this was Haley's, this was her plan, right?

So she goes to Dan and he's like, I'm just going to, he coxed, he's got the gun and he's like, I'm going to go tell this guy what's up. And she's like, you can't just walk in there with the gun. And he's like, do you have a better plan? She says, yes. So, yeah, this is Haley's plan. But it does feel extremely superfluous. It's really like, it could have been at a six and they took it to a 10. Yeah.

I mean, I had fun. Don't get me wrong. But like the whole thing of that's it. I mean, I really thought they were going somewhere with this, watching it back, because I didn't remember. Yeah. Yeah. I was like, oh, wow, this is a whole thing that they've concocted. I mean, that's so in the middle of the day, like, how easy is that to just get some guy to, like, walk behind a dumpster? I don't know.

It just didn't seem necessary. Yeah. I mean, maybe maybe the idea is if these are guys, as they've said, as the warehouse guys have said, right, with Nathan. If the audience knows that these dudes and this crew run drugs and prostitutes, which, I mean, essentially means I would imagine they're involved in some kind of human trafficking, which is pretty grotesque. Like, knowing what we know about them is Haley thinking like, oh, well, I've got to be dressed up like a sex worker, not just like a hot girl at a bar.

Like, you could have just as easily been in a halter top and a pair of jeans and had that staring at you, but it's like the halter top and the miniskirt and the f*** me boots. Like, it's the whole thing. The whole thing. He also doesn't know what Haley looks like. You're telling me this guy. The wife of the guy that you kidnapped.

She's a pop star. She's a rock star or whatever. She went on tour. She's like a local celebrity now. As you were mentioning about the whole thing in the airport with Lucas. Yes. People recognize her. You're telling me this guy does not know that the wife of the kidnapped person looks

like, especially the fact that she's, a local celebrity. What? Well, and this is what doesn't make sense about our show sometimes. The like hudum dumb, like idiocy of this cop being like, it's a small town, ma'am, sounded like the guy was hungry, people are going to run into each other. Like, and then the other side of the scales of our show is that Nathan's an NBA player, Haley's a rock star. Book is like a multi-billion dollar corporation, which, you know, she's lost now, but still like. Yeah, yeah, famous. What? Like, what do you mean? It's Like, are we in a teeny, tiny, small town? Or are we, like, exceptionally famous people?

I don't get it. We're both, Sophia. We're both. You know, in Haley's events, maybe, listen, it's been a nightmare of a couple of days for her. Yes, that would have made more sense. But maybe she was just like, I want to get drunk during the daytime. And this is the perfect excuse. She just wanted to blow off some steam.

She wanted a little escapism. So she was like, I'm going to just, I'm going to tart myself up to the nines. I'm going to catch a little buzz while it's like lunchtime, you know? Oh, yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing.

for hundreds of years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I do just love, though, that it's the, it's kind of the inverse of when we did our superhero episode, when I had to beg you to dress up with me. And then you bring the boots, which, by the way, are basically the boots we wore in the superhero episode. It must have been. And it's like, you, Haley comes to see Brooke and is like, dress me up like a hooker from the 90. And Brooke's like, got it, all over it.

Let me whip you up a metallic top. Yes. That would have been an incredible montage. Also, you know what I was thinking too, Joy, as I watched this scene, I thought, just good for joy. Like, you're such a team player because you had had Maria, what, four months before this scene? Yeah, I guess so. And they're like, hey, you just had your body totally given away to another human being for a year.

How about we put you in the tightest pleather skirt and boostie? Like, it was such an outfit. I'm sure that could make you feel so vulnerable. And like, here, you had just had a baby. And you were a gamer and you did it. Thanks, Rob. Thanks so much. Yeah.

I really appreciate that. I remember that being a thing. I was like, oh, boy, this is going to be interesting. but it turned out okay. You know? I think they shot it really well and it looked great. Honestly, Rob started it, so I'll follow up with my thought. When you, like, sidled up to the bar and leaned over, I was like, use the breastfeeding

for the people, joy. Oh, yes. I was just like, this is incredible. You looked amazing. Yeah, that was fun. And I love that you literally just like walked up and put your tits on the bar. I was like, yes, do it. Listen, I don't have fast anything, okay?

I know it. I appreciate it. It was so great. Thanks. Oh, yeah. That was fun. But definitely, to your point, Rob, I agree. It was a bit strange. There was a lot about it that, you know, there's so much that enters into the realm of camp and unintentionally that we have to keep. You were saying this in the last episode, Sof, about us riding the shark, the bridle on the shark. Rob said riding the shark and then I got the bridle. Oh, yeah. That's right. Oh, okay. Okay, yeah. So, okay, Rob, this. Oh, yeah, you were floating your idea about how this, how this goes down on our show. And we do have perfected this writing the shark thing. But the camp elements of like him, what's his name? Our guy, Demetri, you know, he's bending over to fix something on his bike. And his gun is just fully hanging out of the back of his pants in the middle of the street in the middle of the day. Like, okay, that's really a lot. And then we've got Dan beating this guy up in the middle of the day behind a bar, which, what, in the middle of the day, when then we get him into a warehouse? And this is now why we understand he got a soundstage so that he can torture someone in the sound stage where he makes his hot dogs on his grill. Also, I think, okay, I'm sure because it's called a sound stage that the majority of our viewers have never been in a sound stage.

I just go, oh, sound must not escape it. Sound escapes it. So if a man is screaming bloody murder, like you will hear that outside the stage. So it was also odd that I was like, not like take him somewhere in the woods, you know, but it's like the soundstage doesn't mean it's soundproof.

Exactly. Occasionally, actually, sound stages make sound worse. Like when we'd have crazy torrential rain and have to hold because it, I mean, it sounded like we were inside of a, Popcorn Popper. Airplanes. We were right next to the airport. We'd have to pause for airplanes all the time. Yeah. The fact, listen, civil engineers, where are you at? Because the fact that somebody built a movie studio across the street from the airport, just like, knock, knock, is anybody home? How could this have been the choice? Did you guys ever shoot at Stu Siegel Studios in San Diego?

Wait, what? No. I did two things down there. It's really. did like Veronica Mars and a bunch of other things but it literally shares space with um they like leased out half of the area to it's like the Marines so there would be days where they would be practicing helicopter touchdowns which it's literally fly over land flyback so you would have a 12 hour a day that you would lose like no joke an hour and a half to holding for helicopters oh my so yeah it was like to your point so if it was just like whoever designed this clearly didn't care about efficiency or know how sound works. Yeah.

I wonder if the airport was even there because didn't Capra Jr., Frank Capra or Capra Jr., like start the studio, which would have been a long time ago. I mean, yeah, but I think it was in like a 60s. There was an airport there. Oh, there was. Yeah.

Yeah, so weird. It's also interesting to me. Everyone at home is like, okay, guys, thank you so much. On the topic of things that are extreme. The fact that Brooks convicted, not just stalker, but assaulter, is allowed to work across the street from her, it drives me crazy because, listen, it's a, I understand that it's a great device for the discomfort, that she can't escape this person, but that's literally not how the law works. So actually, this is one of the things I was wondering because, I mean, I think there are, there are a lot. of broken systems, particularly for women and their abusers. Oh, yeah.

There's huge problems with the legal system in that regard. So is there an implied restraining order? Do you know something about this that we don't know that there's an implied restraining order when some, or a very literal restraining order usually put in place? Yeah. I mean, if you're asked to speak at a parole hearing for someone who assaulted you, it's because you're giving a victim impact statement. so you are you are registered as a victim and and listen we haven't seen this on the show

but by the way the law is supposed to go yeah brook has a restraining order against this person and and you know civil restraining orders usually last for 10 years or criminal restraining orders rather so it's it's just so weird to me that then this police officer's like oh he said he didn't know it was your place and you know he called me to let me know And it's like, dude, it's the same place where he beat the shit out of her. It used to be her store. And now it's her and her best friend's cafe. Like, and to your point, Joy, we've seen this.

I mean, women who go through domestic violence or, you know, stalking or, you know, partner or non-partner violence like this absolutely don't get treated the way they should. They don't get protected the way they should. If they're believed. exactly right in the first place but the crazy part of this is to me is like this guy did go to jail for this yeah and everybody's acting like it's no big deal and i'm like she's actually one of the ones who did get believed yeah and it's also this we don't this the show doesn't take place in new york or detroit where there is a lot of crime and there are a lot of things happening to people like a lot of people. This is Tree Hill. It's a small town. So a man breaking into a store and beating a woman

very badly. That's a huge thing. And she's a celebrity. She's a famous woman in town. And she's like a local hero. And so it's odd that in a small town where typically you would think that would be under a like a microglass? No. Microscope. Yeah. And like and they would be like overreacting if anything. They're having like this big city reaction of like, well, you know, he's got to eat. It's like, what? This storyline makes me feel so claustrophobic. Me too. It's just because it's so real.

I mean, I don't know about the restraining order thing in the element, but the element of like coercive control and how someone can harm you, abuse you, whether it's psychological or physical. And then whether they've paid their time or not, that they can still walk around and the way that he's behaving with her. Because he gaslights her. Right. Because he's making her.

think she's the crazy one. He's behaving in this way that's like, you know everything in your body is telling you this person has ill will toward me. They want to harm me again in some way. But everything on the surface looks perfect, so nobody's going to do anything about it. And I just wanted to crawl out of my skin. It was, it really hit home for me. It was just tough to watch. Yeah, it drives me crazy for the same reasons. And you know what's interesting to me, Rob, now that you're saying that it's like it's making no shock here because i i memorize statistics for weird reasons like i don't understand my own brain but like eight of the ten states where women go through the most violence aren't like the states with those big cities you're talking about they actually

are more like quote unquote rural states to begin with and so part of me is like oh maybe maybe the thing that feels so ridiculous to me about the way these cops are reacting to what Brooke is saying is actually frustratingly more accurate, you know, because this is what women typically go through. They don't get believed. And they get told, like, well, once he tries to kill you, we can do something. Once there's an attempt on your life again, we can do something. It's reasonable. Like, we understand why you'd be a little paranoid. Of course, this person assaulted you, but look, He's paid his time. He just needs a regular job. Like, you don't need to be hysterical. Yeah. And they make you feel crazy about it. And then I think the craziest part of it is you see, not that that's like where this is going, but then you do see with women who fight back, you know, joy to your point, like with all the things we know about how true these situations are. So often the women that fight back who do the stand your ground, who like, who go out and get a gun and do all the things that they tell you you're supposed to do.

then they go to jail or yeah or they look crazy to the people in their community because everybody just wants everything to be super nice and easy let's just believe that everything's nice and okay yeah it's kind of crazy and maybe part of what makes me feel to to use that word that you used because it's so accurate the thing that makes me feel so claustrophobic about this I can I can separate the two like certainly from my own personal experience and then watching it happen on screen is the way Tara's behaving. Thank you. This is where I wanted to say.

Because not only to have a man, like a police officer, be like, okay, little lady, but to have another woman look at you and go, good, win, win, win, win. Like, it's so upsetting. And even that she's still playing her competitive thing and that Brooke looks at her and is like you're not listening to me like please and for you and everyone else this man is dangerous and she's just like great makes it even better for me to make you squirm it's like an injury on an injury if that makes sense yes it is i was thinking about this because that scene blew my mind first of all she's a straight up sociopath i mean absolutely we don't even know why is it literally

just because she wants her cafe to do well she blows into town we don't know anything about her What the hell? I don't, see, I don't think we, they haven't laid enough groundwork for that to be the case. Because we really haven't seen her, like, taking any pride really in it or like. They've told us nothing about her. So, exactly. So that's what, like, okay, obviously, Xavier is so dangerous and such a threat. And obviously the kidnappers are very dangerous.

But it's like, you can almost explain away the kidnappers, though. Like, they are in it for money. Like, their actions are still dangerous and scary. but, like, they are just, like, profiteering, right? But Tara and Xavier are kind of in a group of their own where it's, like, it's, like, sociopathic behavior. It's unpredictable. And it's, that's kind of, that's, like, the scariest kind, though,

because at least, like, you, with, like, the kidnappers, there's an angle. Like, they just want money. So they're going to do whatever's going to yield the most money. When Tara, after that scene, I'm like, she's truly a psychopath. Yeah, it's a psychological. torment what she's doing. And it's all for the end goal, I guess, of getting Brooke to leave and

getting her out. So this is another way that really sick people try and get what they want. If they don't know how to take it by force or they feel like they'll get in trouble, they'll suffer some consequences. They don't want to have to suffer by taking something by force. Then they, that's coercion. Then they start to try and control the situation with this psychological torment. It's so awful. But it wasn't even like she had a cafe going. and you guys open the cafe across the street. It's like she chose this tiny town. She chose the spot across the street from you.

It just, that's what makes her look even crazier, is that there appears to be no rationale for why she is going just balls out, gaslight, menacing, destructive. And by the way, I wish we were getting some motivation because Chelsea plays her so well, but I don't understand why she's being asked to play. play these things. Like, why is Tara, to your point, the kind of person who goes, I'm going to move in across from a beloved cafe from a cultural institution in this small town and try to ruin them? I'm going to date a rock star and then sleep with his best friend behind his back.

Like, who is this person? She seems like an, she's like an archetype of a femme fatale that like an eight-year-old boy would come up with or a 12-year-old boy. Which then makes me go like, how old was our boss at this point? Like, four-eight. Like, bro, are you okay? Yeah. And if she's going to be this person, give her a reason. Give us, give us like some juice.

Make it make sense so we can expect crazier and crazier from her. Yeah. Even just being a sociopath, which she is absolutely. Clearly. And just obsessed with needing to get her way in every situation. and creating situations so that she can get her way. But even that, we still need a reason for her in the show to be doing that. There's just, there's no backstory for the support of the show.

Like, I'm fine to have a sociopath, but we need to know why. Why? No, it would actually be enough if even in that scene, if she had been like, do you remember such and such clothing line? And you're like, what? And she's like, that was mine. And it went out of business when years. thing. Like even that would be like, oh, she has an axe to grind.

That design you stole, that or Victoria stole that you didn't know Victoria stole and you used it and it became a big thing and it put her out of business. Like anything. Yes. Yeah. By the way, even it could have been like I applied for a job at close over bros and was told like Victoria told me I was a shoe in. I quit my job. I moved to New York and then you guys hired someone else. And yeah. People could be like, I never even saw your, what? I never. I never. saw your resume. What are you talking about? Like something. But there's just no reason for her to hate this other woman so much. I wonder if Chelsea ever asked. If any of us are still in touch with her, it would be interesting to find out like what she would have, because

she's the actress having to play the part. She would have had to ask these questions and get answers about it. Yes and no, because it's a super successful show. She's coming on for the last season. I can see her. I can understand if I was in that spot, maybe being like an I don't want to rock the boat thing and I'll just, I'll just play it. But I wonder because I, listen, those are the kind of questions you'd be asking like, why am I doing this? It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for

hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

I will say, to the episode's credit, different than this, we actually got a lot of questions answered with Clay and Logan, which I was very appreciative of. I'm so excited to talk about this. Finally. And that was a highlight of the episode for sure. How did you feel about all that, Rob? I thought it was great. And I think that is largely due to Pierce. Because every time we cut to him and his little earnest eyes looking up at Clay, I'm just, I'm there. I'm on board. I'm emotionally invested. Exactly. He's so open that you don't really have to do much else in a scene with him. And so I thought the stuff, I thought it all worked and I thought it was great that he told Clay no at the end. I

didn't remember that. I didn't. Like I said, I only remember how we end, like the ending of Sof's episode that she directed. But I don't recall the path to get there. So I liked that it wasn't easy for Clay. Shouldn't be. I liked that we got clarity as to where he's been for six years and why this whole charade is unfolding the way it is. The one thing I will say that was funny. And they at least acknowledged it was when Clay and Logan are talking outside. And for some reason, the therapist and Quinn are like 10 feet away watching, which is fine. But then just apropos of nothing, the therapist is like, he loves you, you know. He loves you. And in my head immediately, I'm like, that's such a violation. What are you doing? And then he's like,

I just violated patient doctor confidentiality, but I'm pretty sure you knew it anyways. I'm just like, what? Wait, are we friends now? We're all friends with still gone. Yeah, it was so weird. It was like, okay. I loved, I really also did love this storyline in this episode in particular, but it was funny to me when Clay, when you were explaining to Quinn the truth of who Logan is.

And she says, are you sure? Are you sure? Are you sure? I'm just thinking about the practicality of that line. Like, yes, yes, he's sure. There's no way he's going to be explaining any of this to you. I don't know. Maybe it was just dumb to me.

I was listening to this like, oh, I wish they'd cut that line for her. There just seemed like such a, it's such a girl, like a caricature girlfriend line. Like, what are we going to do? Can I tell you, though, see, I didn't bump on that at all. I hear what you're saying, though. But I think, because to me it is, that is such an absurd out of left field statement from Clay that she's like, whatever it is, we're going to be okay. And he's like, I have a son I forgot about for six years. That is bonkers.

So I think I totally accept any person just going, are you sure? Because that is just so absurd to say. Okay, fair enough. Yeah, that's good. Well, but let me, let me give you your flowers too because this, that scene where you were explaining to Logan who you are, I got so emotional. I was on my treadmill with my 10 pound or my whatever, the 20 pound weight vest. And I'm just walking, watching this episode. And I had to just stop. I had to step off to the side of my treadmill and just let myself be emotional for a minute. You really, really got me. It was so beautiful. Thanks. Yeah. Yeah. And I was so sad when he said no and walked away. Him saying no, like it knocked the wind at me.

And your face, Rob. And yeah, I don't know. There was something so interesting, like the whole way that was written, for all the things that are done at a 10 when they should be at a 6th, that whole scene was so gorgeous because it felt so human. Even the fact that Quinn said just walk over there and say hi Logan and the rest will come and then you're like are you are you eating healthy like it's so you have no idea what to say and and we know what's up which is a fun moment as an audience member the whole thing is so beautiful and then for him to say no it's just you were so sort of you just kept it really simple I think that's what I really appreciated about it it wasn't I felt like Clay's uncertainty. I felt the deep care and the sensitivity and like the respect of not expecting this kid all of a sudden to just be like, Daddy, everything's fine, you know. There was so, you really handled that so beautifully.

Oh, yeah. Thanks, guys. Yeah, I think they did that storyline a huge service by not making it easy for Clay. Yes. It needed to be because you really, you make Logan. so much more of a real human to have him not immediately go dad and have this great moment. It should be earned. He should be angry. Yeah. And yeah and I think they did also just with the dialogue

because nothing about that scene should have had any polish on it. Clay has no idea what he's doing. So the fact that he's coming in and all of a sudden he's like are you eating? Are you eating healthy? Or like are you eating good? It's like what are you talking about? And you like oh yeah, he has no idea what he's doing. Yeah. It's

very sweet. It communicated so well how suddenly rudderless you feel. You know, how in a way having the answer is almost harder than the mystery. And because you've built up this beautiful rapport with this little boy, it's like, well, what are you going to do? How are you going to do this right? And it's really nice to see you not have all of the answers, you know? Mm-hmm. Did anyone bump on the fact that the therapist said it was my decision to not allow anyone to talk to him until he found his way out of this fugitive? Like, I was like, okay, maybe a few weeks. I guess, like, I could see a month or two, but, like, you're going to let this go on for six years.

Like, that seems super negligible to me. I mean, I'm not a therapist who deals with people in. fugstates, but good Lord. That's a great point. I didn't bump on it in the moment, but now that you're saying it, because I was just thinking like, I don't know the rules of fugue states, like how you don't wake a sleepwalker. I don't know if there's a sub-protacle for fugue states, but yeah, that's a good point because it's a really long time.

You can't also only be looking at how it's affecting clay. You are now choosing that a child is going to grow up without his one parent for six years. Right. And then who's he living with? Is he living with grandparents? It's her parents. Sarah's parents. Yeah, Sarah's parents.

So it's like it's just such a, it's such a crazy thing. And again, it takes me back to where we started. I'm like, the cops incompetent malpractice. The therapist, this feels like malpractice. Like, what is everybody doing? And did the grandparents never show Logan a picture of their mom, of his mom and dad? This is what I'm saying. Yeah.

Yes. No pictures. They didn't, they didn't, they just obeyed this therapist. Just they were like, okay, sure, sounds good. We'll just raise this kid until he's ready. I guess he'll never be ready. That's crazy. This little boys essentially on the Truman show.

Uh-huh. I don't like it. Also, yeah, yeah. And the therapist was just so lackadaisical about just being like, he'll come around and literally six years go by. Yeah. Yeah, he needed to be like way more proactive or something. He was so invested, though. He, like, comes to Tree Hill to be a part B Clay's therapist and first Logan with him.

Mm-hmm. Yeah, there's a whole, there's a whole backstory here that we just did not get. You know what else left me with more questions than answered? Sweet, sweet mouth prosthetics. This is my note. Mouth is still in this stupid weight suit. I mean, okay, it's fine. I like that when Skills is like, what has happened?

At first, he just starts to say, I'm eating for my job, and it's very easy for just like one meal out. become two and three and it just builds up. I was like, yeah, that's actually totally fair. But I appreciated that skills went, yeah, that's all fine and well, but you seem sad to me. Yeah. Yeah, that was great. You don't seem like the old mouth. And I thought that was so smart because then it wasn't, it just became a real issue that I think more people can like relate with, relate to. Yes. You know, and that was great. I will say the hard part of me for that scene was mouth looks like a ghoul. When he's sitting at the table, the way the lighting and his prosthetics

there is just something that does not look human about it and we have got to get him out of that because he's literally I mean his face is covered in layers of silicone like it doesn't when it's not lit correctly it literally doesn't look like human flesh and so it's an unfortunate thing

when you're watching an actor you really like and you're so taken out of their performance performance by something that's beyond their control. Yeah. He has the crow's feet of an 80-year-old farmer. It's like he gained weight. He didn't also exist for 60 years on the side, you know? Yeah.

Yeah, he didn't age decades. It's so weird. Tyler was great in this episode. Oh, this moment. The scene where he has to figure out a way to help Chase and he goes into his office and the two twin interns are sitting there. And it's basically just him talking at himself the entire time. And then getting excited about it at the end was so freaking funny, man.

Yeah. So great. I also loved him with Chase coming out of the police station and him grabbing the ticket off of the top of his windshield, rolling it up and throwing it into the car, the cop car next to him. Did you notice this? No. It was just all part of the action that he did. I don't know if Tyler asked. somebody to put a ticket on his car or if it was like his car has a ticket. I don't know who

thought of that. But the, man, those are the kinds of magic moments that I live for when I'm watching shows. The stuff that's not being, it has nothing to do with the scene. It's not being said. It's just normal everyday action. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred

years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive

while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Quick magic moment that I want to circle back to a scene we've already discussed. But it's when you and Haley's leaving the bar and Dan is waiting for him. And there's the slow-mo shot of Haley putting on her glasses, walking away. And instead of an explosion, because that's usually what happens in these sort of slow-mo scenes,

it is Dan Scott just beating the life out of the drug dealer next to a dumpster. Yeah. Joy, I feel like they really gave you your David Caruso moment with those sunglasses. And I was like, yes. Yeah, wait, I have some on my desk right now. Yeah. Oh, yeah, it was like that slow-mo, like. Yeah.

Yes, that's it. And my 11s really showed up that I've got my, they're Botox now. The only thing, because you were looking into the sun, the only thing missing from that scene was just, damn, it feels good to be a gangster playing in the background. Yes. Also, the worst line of the episode was that drug dealer in the scene prior in the bar going, you know what I like in a woman? Me.

Oh, God, I know. So disgusting. He was sweet, though. He was... He is. He's a sweet guy, but he commits to some pretty tough dialogue. Yeah. He was great.

I remember him being like, I'm so sorry. I have to say this. I'm sorry. It's okay, buddy. Go ahead. Yeah. You're like, just lay it on me. It's our jobs today.

Yeah. Also, you had to throw it right back at him and do the whole threesome gag. Like, they really. made you guys go for it uh i also stephen colletti i just i have his name here with a thousand exclamation points next to it because his performance was so so good in this episode and the way that he man he's so underrated like watching him on i want to say on trial but that's not the right word whatever they were at the at the uh hearing and um and the way his face his he got all choked up his eyes eyes got all watery and weepy when Chuck was testifying for him and came in and did the right

thing. I just really love watching Stephen work. I just think he's so underrated. He keeps it all pretty close to the vest. But if you're really watching, you can see all the gears turning all the time. Yeah. Well, he has such a, Stephen has such an inherent sweetness of spirit. And it's what made him so great to come in as Chase in high school as a clean teen. You bought. that he was just this really pure sweet teenage boy and and there is something about that earnestness that he has maintained as he's grown into a serious leading man and it it is so um able to shine it's it's highlighted so well in this big brother story yeah you know because because yeah all of you guys you're you're like gorgeous hunky leading men you know in these big relationships and doing the

things and but to see this guy as a volunteer with a boy who needs a mentor it's a rare thing to see on camera and i think it's it's a very perfect device that the writers gave to let something that is inherent in our friend really shine through and when you get those moments it feels it feels very emotionally profound. Yeah, I'm just glad they finally got him out from behind the bar and just this back and Mia and Alex and blah, blah, blah, like, okay, okay, enough already. Give this man something actually to do. And they did something smart.

Obviously, it's great to see Chuck did the right thing, but that they included Chuck's mom in on it. I didn't realize how much we needed it until she was there and actually said, we've reported it to police, we told him what was going on. because we like Chuck so much by this point that we need to know he's going to have at least one decent parent. Yes.

So the fact that she was in on, I thought, was a really smart device to include her because it could have easily been Chuck doing it by himself and it wouldn't have had quite the same payoff because we now are kind of so invested in him. Yeah. Agree. There were so many, like,

so many great lines as well in this. Like when it was such a badass moment of Dan sending Haley away at the soundstage and saying he says something to the effect of like I'm going to have to do some things I don't want you to see yeah I'm going to do some things you shouldn't see and I love that as Haley is walking away he just goes he's about to torture a man

but he's never going to miss a great one liner right and he just goes hey Haley you should give Deb back her clothes like the fact that he's got a little zinger when he's about to burn a man was terrific here's a line I I was immediately curious about, did you want to say something so? Yes, I do.

Before we move on, because this is on the subject matter of Deb, just in the timeline of when we're recording this episode, I was just on the West Coast for work. Ash came out to meet me, and the week she was visiting coincided with Emmy weekend. So we went out to things. Like, you know, we were doing the thing with the folks

were working with at Netflix. We, like, went to the night before. On the Sunday night, in walk barbara and her daughter and we're just screaming and shrieking and we're like oh my god oh my god and we're having the whole thing and i'm like honey this is barbara you know you always hear us talk about the women who played the moms on our show and ash literally goes what show she plays a mom on which show and i'm like no not now she played one of the moms on one trail and she literally looks at barbara and goes i'm sorry that's not possible whose mom were you playing 20 years ago

And I was like, I'm telling you. And to watch Ashland's brain explode, she was like, I don't understand what you're saying to me right now. And I was like, no, yeah, Barbara just is ageless. I don't know what else to say. So hot, always. Just like literally the hottest person in the room. None of us know what to do about it.

I know. I'm just glad I saw that in the like next, like coming up in the next episode or whatever, I think she's in it or she's in at some point over the next couple of episodes. she's in it. I saw her face somewhere. So I know she's coming back for a little bit, which makes me really happy that we get her before the end. But, yeah, that was a great moment, by the way, just to full circle that line that Dan thrust out. Just be sure to give her dead back her clothes.

And then at the almost end of the episode, Skills is asleep on the couch and mouth goes to wake him up so I think they can go for like a run or something. And in his slumber, Skill says, baby, please. I'm not from Havana. Brilliant. I was immediately, like, I needed an episode about what that means. Yes. It raised so many questions I desperately wanted an answer to.

Yes. Kudos to whoever threw that line in there, because that was so funny. It was probably Antoine just laying there on the couch. They're like, Antoine, just say something. He came up with it. Let's go with that because I would, I love that version of it. Yeah, it was just Twan ad-libing. And then the last shot of the episode was a real gasper because Xavier holding the baby.

What? I don't like it. I'm over the device of babies being stolen by crazy people, crazy people breaking into bedrooms upstairs. Just something else, anything else. Crazy people do all kinds of crazy things. Does it have to be, even just him being outside the house? Like he could have just been standing on the corner smoking a cigarette. at outside the house and that would have been enough like I don't need to see him in the room

what because we're doing that thing again where we assume just because someone's a full blown psycho that they also suddenly inherited the skills of a cat burglar yeah because you know brook and julian right now are on the highest of alert meaning exactly everything was double locked everything was triple checked and he somehow got through all of that woke up a baby and like yeah It feels like it's insulting the audience's intelligence, too. Like, we get the suspense. We feel it. You don't have to tell us more that we need to be afraid more.

We're already afraid. We're good. We're already creeped out. It's also such a weird thing, isn't it? That that, despite being a ridiculous overdone choice, that theoretically Xavier could have gotten away with that then had he managed to do all the things you just said, Rob, but now, like, who doesn't have a nanette or a nest camera in their kids' room? Yes.

Like, you just would never, it would never happen. Like, you could, you would know, you get an alert, like a fly goes by in your kid's room and your phone lights up, like motion detected. And I don't know, it's so, it's weird to think about these sort of moments, especially with our show in the way tech has taken all these leaps. Like the fact that all the kids were on flip phones at the beginning of the show. And like the fact that there wasn't a camera in a nursery then. How about the fact that you guys are following him and watching him break into a window and you have a phone with you?

But you decide to make a phone call with it instead of film him breaking into the house. Right. It's so silly. It's all so silly. We got to get to this question. But I got to say the one last silly thing was when Brooke walks into. the Rivals Cafe and see Xavier, dude,

people can't help themselves from doing a close-up on the object falling from someone's hand because they're shocked. But I love that this time, because it's always glass, it always needs to break. I love that this time.

It was a coffee pot with metal on the bottom. So it didn't break. It was almost like them going, this is the last one, guys. This is it. But it's like, just trust that we're going to see it on Brooks' face. But no, we got to show it falling

and hitting the ground. because that means it's really scary. She's so startled. She dropped something. Yeah. It's like, okay, guys. Okay, I'll read this one. Peter asks, Joy, what sort of training did you do for that fight scene?

And if you actually got to punch someone. Oh, Peter. Oh, hi, Peter. Well, it wasn't really a fight scene. It wasn't much of a fight scene to me. I mean, no, not really. There wasn't much training involved. We had a stunt coordinator who was like,

here's about how far away you can get from his face when you swing. Yeah. Try not to go any closer. And he was pretty good at doing the reaction, which is surprisingly it can be hard to do to get the timing right on that. So I think we've probably rehearsed it a couple of times, but now there's no real training required. Yeah.

I think one of the things that's always interesting about throwing a slap or throwing a punch is there's obviously a way you do that as a human. But for our friends at home, depending on where the camera is, you often have to do a really weird exaggerated angle. So like for a slap to look like it goes straight across someone's face, depending on where the camera is, it'll look straight in the scene,

but you have to start like lower right and go upper left. Or you have to do all these weird little things to make it look correct on screen versus, is feel right in your body. But if you do the weird thing that feels really wrong that the stunt coordinator shows you to do, then you see it on screen and you're like, damn, it really looks like I hit that guy.

Yeah, totally. That's like a fun little BTS for you, Peter. Yeah. It's the same with love scenes where people are like, oh my gosh, it's so hot. And you're like, it is the opposite. Like there is so much technical to it. Like, are they blocking my light?

Am I blocking theirs? Can I put my arm here? Like, it is the most uncomfortable. Yeah. If I bend that way, then I get all these weird lines in my side. So I have to make sure that I'm like, my back is arched. You know, it's like so comfortable. And then also you finally think you've gotten it right. And it's like, you were in her light. You were in his light. You got to readjust this way. So you have to make it look really passionate and also keep your head at a weird angle to get you a cramp. Oh, yeah. It's like such a bizarre thing to have to do. All right. Let's spin a wheel. All righty. Most likely to become a professional gambler. Antoine?

Antoine. Jenks. Oh, yeah. Yes. That man loves a sports bet. He also is so good at bluffing. I feel like you could be playing poker with Antoine. And he would just totally knock you sideways because he

have a great story no matter what his hand actually looked like. And he plays, I think, regularly in Domino's tournaments. Yeah. Yeah, easily. Are you allowed to talk in poker? Can you just like, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, just talk? Yeah. So that could be part of his, oh, man, that would throw everybody off, I bet.

Because he would just go. He knows how to just run. That would be great. Next week, we have season nine, episode 10. Hardcore will never die. but you will. Oh, boy. That's a good title.

It is. See if it lives up to it. Heavy, though. Heavy titles. Hardcore and death and bombs. And we got a lot going on this season. My God. I think we're wrapping it up soon with those storylines.

I hope. What? Happy times coming. Happy times coming. I know. Can you believe there's only four episodes left for us to cover? What? Wait, is that actually?

10, 11, 12, 13, right? Gasp, you shall, Joy. It's crazy. I know. I'm going to go cry. We should just start watching them back in different languages. And we're like, well, none of us speak Farsi, but what we think happened in this episode. All right, gang.

Thanks for joining us. See you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH. Or email us at Drama Queen's at I Heart Radio. video.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl, you could sit with us girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast

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What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, in the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.