Drama Queens - A Sprinkle of Drama • EP 816

Episode Date: May 19, 2025

Sophia, Joy and Rob reminisce about Haley's hilarious surprise baby shower that turned chaotic when everyone confessed to their worst moments.They loved the full-circle moment that reminded everyone just how far Nathan’s come. And the Queens don't hold back teasing Clay for dodging a real conversation with Quinn, laughing over Haley’s accidental dig at her sister, and Julian’s lack of baseball knowledge.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

We're gathering for season 8, episode 16. I think I'm going to like it here. Our original air date was February 22nd, 2011. Oh, that's my friend Cammy's birthday. Um, Robert, would you like to read our synopsis for the girls? Would love to. As the girls plan a surprise baby shower for Haley, the guys participate in tryouts for Jamie's baseball team.

Meanwhile, Brooke and Julian pursue adoption and Mouth gets Millicent ready for her first day at work. was directed by Stephen Goldfried and written by Rachel Specter and Audrey Washope. I think that's correct. Yeah, the best. Rachel and Audrey are so great and you feel their sort of spirit and their playfulness

and their sense of humor in the whole episode, I think. It felt kind of flat for me. I gotta be honest. I was pretty bored. Oh, no! I'm sorry, guys. I was pretty bored.

I mean, maybe I was enjoying the pace of it because I was also making lunch while I was watching this episode. So maybe it was the perfect thing to have on while I was also doing something. Yeah. I don't mean to take away from Rachel and Audrey. I think they're both incredibly talented writers

and wonderful women, and we really enjoyed having them on the show. And you never know what's going on behind the scenes and what's being rewritten outside of their names and what the parameters are on people that are writing things. So it's never really any reflection on the writers. It's just I couldn't. And I think possibly the combination of Steve Goldfried directing, who was a very novice director and probably just did not have the – and he didn't have – I don't know that his depth of history spending time with a lot of women around each other was comprehensive.

And so it felt like there was a lot of stiffness and sort of false – in the, not in, we were doing the best we could with what we had and there were a lot of scenes with a lot of people. So that's also a big, uh, uh, heavy lift to, to pull. Um, but all the pieces just felt clunky to me. They didn't quite all stick together. One thing I will say to that point is it felt, so I feel like it's hard to service an ensemble cast in 44 minutes, you know, When you actually break it down, when you have like eight main characters, everybody's getting like five and a half minutes of screen time. So it's very hard to tell stories for everyone. So I feel like most episodes, everything, it's like, this scene's in here because we have to get that point.

This scene's in here because we have to do it. This episode kind of felt the opposite where it was like these three scenes are going to be for this thing. And like there was a lot of stuff that felt stretched out as opposed to like we're going to get into the scenes. as late as possible and leave as early as possible. I think that's what I liked, though, was I finally felt like we were watching people live a life. I didn't feel like the scenes were racing to make a point, I guess. Like, there were certain things I really liked

where the callbacks took a while to come around. Like, you have that great sequence in the morning joy when it's Haley and Jamie and you walk in in the Jamie's mom jersey, and he's like, Mom, there's no whistles in baseball. And then it comes up so long later, like halfway through the episode. And Daphne walking in after you just got done talking with her about prison, but it was way earlier in the episode.

Totally. So it's like I liked that there was a weight and then a reward because I didn't see it coming. Sometimes I think when they're trying to do exactly what you're talking about, Rob, where like you've got to get everybody's episodic point in. I'm like, there's literally no reason for this scene. You just needed me to know that this was going to happen to Brooke and Julie. or Quinn and Clay so that in the next episode it could. And this, this whole sort of sequence of events, maybe because it was just this, you know, seven hour period of one day, I was like,

oh, I actually get to watch people talk to each other. And sometimes it's awkward and sometimes it's funny. Yeah. It's more of a narrative style, more of a narrative style. I don't think, I don't know that there's anything really wrong with it. It's just for me, I, I don't tend to love those types of stories anyway where you're just sitting in a moment of someone's life. There are some films in TV shows where I really love that,

but it's done a certain way that is appealing to me personally. But I like when we do things that are really, there's an objective. In every scene, every character has a motive, there's something that they're moving toward,

there's a purpose in the scene, and we're waiting to see these things achieved throughout. And this one, didn't feel like that. It was much more narrative. It was much more like, how are we feeling and discussing new things with each other that are coming up? And Austin sharing that, or Julian sharing that he's going to be a dad and how the guys are reacting to that. You know, those are, it's not that it's not a story worth telling. Maybe I just wasn't in the mood for it. And it could just be as simple as that. Yeah. Yeah. And I think kind of like to self's point, it's like, it's

neither a good nor a bad thing. It's just sort of like, it's the change up pitch. This show throws a lot of fastballs and curveballs, and then suddenly the changeup comes. And that was intentional. Baseball metaphor. But, you know, like, that was the thing. It's like, I think we've come to expect a certain pacing on this show. And this one was just different, you know? Correct.

But I, okay, I, I, I love the opening song. Because I, the opening montage was slow. It was a nice sequence. Yes, but it worked because of that song, I thought. Like, it was, I was very happy with it. That's actually a good, good. point that the opener was slow and kind of setting us up for the pace of what everyone was about to enter into for the show yeah what i thought was sort of interesting about it like the very

first note that i have is that haley's baby shower actually has everyone almost on their heels everyone's back in their nostalgia people are thinking about the past they're thinking about how it relates to the future and and yes i think the song set the pace and what was nice for me, I caught myself kind of take a breath. Like, oh, okay, great. I don't have to be ready for the trauma this week. I remembered that it was going to be nice. And yeah, it is. It's funny. You're right. I think it's like, how's your energy level? What do you need? You know, I've got a thing of laundry going and I'm cooking and I'm like, perfect. This is going an easy episode. Nobody's going to die. I love this. That's great. It's like rom-com energy.

It wasn't for the viewer. It's not a challenging episode either. Like it doesn't require a lot of attention span or deduction. It's like, just sit back. We're going to spoon feed you some fun plot stuff. Everyone's going to be okay. You're just going to enjoy yourself today. One of the, my first note was, I just love Lisa Goldstein. Oh, I love her too. She should, I have on here. Lisa needs. It's her own TV show. Yes. That was my note.

When she was putting on lipstick in the mirror, it's such a simple thing, but she told like a whole story in it. And because we know what's going on, she killed that. She's just fantastic, criminally underused. Well, and to do a scene, particularly one where the camera is in motion, you know, it's one, maybe two shots because it's part of a teaser montage. and to, without saying a single word, communicate the absolute bitter sweetness of a moment in your life. Like, I felt like I knew every single thing she was thinking about being proud of herself and nervous that it was going to hurt her relationship and scared of, you know, upsetting

mouth and then having imposter syndrome. I watched it all on her face. And it was so beautiful. I agree. The Haley coming in all kidded up with the Jamie's mom, Jersey, the hat, the whistle. It was so much fun. Yeah. That was just like pure Lucille Ball inspiration for me, just being a total goofball.

It was really fun. I always loved doing scenes with Jackson where we just got to play and be goofy. Mm-hmm. You know, it's a great day at work. Yeah, and to dress up with a kid always heightens it. And it works for Haley. It was such a great choice, you know, for the character, for the wardrobe department. The whole thing, everything being embroidered and customed and all of it, because they gave you that line.

I've got all these new terms to learn and things to, you know, cheers, all the things. It's like you have something to be really excited about and it's thematic. So to make it essentially a theme party and have a costume was like chef's kiss. Was there a specific reason that Haley wasn't going to go? I feel like she just walks in the room and just says, hey, are you sure you don't want me to go? But did I miss something? Or was that just? I think that's just the exposition of why I wasn't going to be in that storyline.

Yeah. Another storyline. Because you had a bibbish holler. Yeah. You're like, well, I wish I could be there, but I have to be in a B story with some other characters, Jamie. Good luck making the team. But where was I wasn't going to? Is it his first game?

Tryouts. Oh, try out. auditions. Auditions. Oh, right. That was great, Julian. So funny. So, and why did, I guess I missed this, too.

I mean, Kellerman, why did he meet you guys out at the Little League field? I was confused as to why he met you out there when you had been waiting for him someone else. I didn't really get that. Well, he stood us up. So my only thing is like that was just him eventually catching up with us. Yes. Yeah, kind of assumed that, but it, yeah, wasn't clear to me. yeah he's just so suddenly nice with this kid oh i'm sorry rob i didn't mean to throw you off you look

like you're ready to go somewhere well i because there was something a very specific question i have for sophia before we get into that part of the episode so there's the really sweet scene of uh brook and brook sort of talking to camera she's rehearsing her adoption speech and then her and julian and then it goes into the bedroom where uh brook is jumping on the bed and he and julian comes in like a faux dad and is like, no jumping on the bed. It gets, it gets cute. And then there's a moment where you jump off the bed into Austin's arms. And I had to watch it three times because it, it really looked like a stunt.

Like, like you run cables. But there's no way in hell we'd bring in cables for that, right? Like that was just you jumping, right? It was just me jumping, but I jumped far. Dude, go back and watch it. I watched it three times because I was like, I think. think? Am I seeing this right? And then there's a weird thing where after you guys fall onto the bed, you're kissing and canoodling. And then he goes to like, when he goes to vault himself up

onto the bed, watch that again. It's like a superhero vault where he kind of just looks like he gets yanked off the bed. And I was like, did we use cables for this? No way we use cables. We did not. But I actually really appreciate that you were like, hold on because the whole point obviously was to be really giddy. He calls Brooke, you know, your little tiggery thing saying she's got like tigger energy from Winnie the Pooh. So I was bouncing very purposefully really high and like doing the spin, you know, up in the air and the whole thing. And you guys know this, but for our friends at home, we've talked about this a little on the episode. Sets have to be like extra large rooms. So you have room for two to three cameras and the dolly

equipment, the cameras go on. So the rooms are big. They're oversized. And I remember, I was like, oh my God, I had to make it look like I just leapt off the bed, but sort of cheat into almost a running start to make it from the mattress to where Austin was standing, which was like a solid eight feet away from me by the door of the outstretched room. That's great. And so it's like, it's a really silly scene, but it actually did require like a lot of strange physicality from us both. So thank you so much for picking up on it. And no, I didn't need any cables rub. I was just good at my job. Oh my gosh. Sophia Bush does her own stunts. And then I do want to report a crime later in the scene. Don't know if you noticed. Julian is wearing his boots in

the house, which first of all, odd. But then when he decides to jump on the bed, bed with you, he's still wearing his boots. Nope. Yeah. Outside shoes do not go into the bedroom, let alone on the furniture. No. What? You can tell, it's moments like this where you can tell we were all in our 20s.

Yeah. Because if a 40-year-old was shooting the scene, they'd be like, oh, there's no way in hell I'd ever have my shoes on the best. Yeah. In my house. Yeah. Yeah. And the director at this, Steve at the time, I think, was probably in his early 30s.

early 30s. Yeah, like probably didn't. None of us, well, we owned homes, I guess, but did we? Were we renting? Either way, it's still just like, you can't walk into my, I don't walk into my, on my bedroom carpet with shoes on, let alone climbing on the bed. That's just this insane. But it's exactly that thing. We talked about it, whatever episode it was, where, remember, you might have called it out, Rob, where you were like, why does Julian have his shoes on the couch of his napping? It's the same thing. And it's, it's the, it's the greatest indicator that those are wardrobe shoes and you're walking to set in your slippers and then putting your shoes on on set and they've literally never touched dirt. So you're unconscious of the fact that

they're supposed to be an actual shoe. Yeah. It's so silly. What was Steve's position on our show? He was an assistant for one of the producers. Gotcha. Yeah. And then worked his way up and started shadowing and started producing. And then I think this was his first year getting to direct an episode. Maybe. I don't know. Pretty cool. Well done. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream listen to burn sage burn bridges on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts shantelle crushed the physical comedy again as she always does in that moment of her I think when she's made it to Brooks yeah I think it's in Brooks where her phone rings And she just, like a baby deer, runs across the room, dives over the couch, falls on the ground. She just always commits to that stuff. And it's so funny, especially given the fact that she does. She has long limbs.

Yeah. So when you play goofy and like uncoordinated, it's so damn funny. It's incredible. And what I liked about it, too, is it really kept the baseball metaphor going. And I don't know if that was intentional on her part or her and Steve discussed it or how they came to it. but she dives like she's sliding into home plate and so you go from the baseball field with all the kids and then into you know working julian's house with Quinn going for this dive it's like i really liked that a lot of those things felt like they were connected even even in this little

slice of a day it was cool to see levin make her appearance yeah i didn't remember what she did on the show levin rambling who plays chloe yeah uh but when she came to the door i was like oh Oh, this is how you fit into the puzzle. Okay, because I didn't remember who the parents, you know, were going to be. I thought she was on the show before. I didn't realize that she came in so late. But I do remember her being there. And I remember her getting Hunger Games like a few months later.

It was pretty fast. She was getting a lot of work all of a sudden, which is exciting that we got her early on when we did. Yeah. And she's just so good. And it's, you know, I would. was thinking about it a lot watching her because we had such a good time working together, but to have distance from it and watch the episode back, she comes in so raw, but she's not pushing. You know, she's not overdoing anything. She manages to just have so much going on right under the

surface. And to be able to do that in a storyline like this, eight seasons in, when our fan wanted Brooke Davis to have a happy ending, you know, to have her great love story, this fairy tale moment so badly to come in and literally be the crux of that. And I don't know. I was so impressed with her then and watching her now. I'm just, I'm like, my breath is taken away by how seamlessly she slides into this world and then brings such a life to it, you know, and represents, this incredibly emotional and vulnerable experience that now, again, to your point, we were in our 20s then. I didn't know anyone who had adopted then. Now it's like I've had every friend I know become apparent, every friend who wants to anyway, in like the most incredible ways. I've watched

people go through fertility. I've watched people go through IVF. I've watched people go through adoptions I've watched like it's I don't know it's so um it's so important to do it right and she just did it so beautifully and I'm like I'm even more impressed now than I was in real time back then yeah she's a really grounded performer yeah yes that's exactly what I was going to say is that there's there's a lot of noise around her her character there's a lot of big things going on with brook and there's it's high energy right and I think especially as a guest star man it's very easy to come in and just get swept up in the current of everything happening around you. But because she's so grounded, and it may have just been because she read the room and

realized, okay, everyone around me is big, I'm going to go small. Yeah. And it becomes so much more interesting when you do that. But either way, yeah, I agree. She played it very subtle and it was really effective. Yeah, so realistic. It's just beautiful. There were a lot of shenanigans happening around, especially at the party when everything

that it's coming up and Lisa's like talking about, I'd have to start doing cocaine again to get to keep up with it. Brooke, you know, unemployment line and then Daphne walks in talking about prison. I mean, the whole thing was just, it was just one hit after another. And she did stay very grounded in the middle of it.

She didn't play into, that's actually a really difficult thing as an actor when you're in a room and everyone else is playing a certain energy. It's one of my pet peeves about auditioning, actually, when you are reading with, and we've talked about this, you read with the casting director who's throwing a certain energy at you that feels completely

wrong for the scene and you have to somehow maintain what you believe the character is actually experiencing and not play off of their energy. So for her to be in a room full of people, all of us were doing a little wild, kooky, like over the top stuff and just to be completely solid. It's impressive. Yeah. And a great choice I thought Steve made was he stayed in the wide that has brook in the foreground when um victoria enters so it's so perfect because you don't need to be tight on victoria because she's so big and she just enters the room and shouts about prison it was so smart of him to stay in that shot and just watch it all happen on brook's face she didn't even say a word she just walked in the door and made some sound and you sophia you just shut your eyes

completely. You just, like, and exhaled. It was great. Like, you didn't even need to hear words out of her mouth. It was like a noise. You were just like, oh, God, here it goes. It's literally like the death blow. It's like, I'm holding on for dear life. And then it's over. It's over. That, I think, was my favorite scene of the episode. Me too. It was so, yeah, such a good payoff. Such a perfect domino effect. And every, every beat of it was funny. And every beat kept getting worse, like started sort of like, oh, I lost the company. Then he'd say, yeah, cocaine, rehab, prison. And it was just like, oh, my gosh.

You even get Allison Munn, who could have been like, no, what are you talking about? I'm an elementary school teacher. And she goes, well, no, not yet. Yeah, like it's a badge of honor. And it's like, oh, my God. Also, I mean, I started making a note because I was very upset. that Allison Munn was just getting no screen time in the scene. Because the way it starts is like, you see her face for one second,

then she turns out of frame. Then you see the bottom half of her legs for one part of the scene. So I immediately was like, this is criminal. Give Allison Munn some freaking work to do. And then she says like three or four lines total. But I was just like, it's a, it's an uptown problem that we have so many great people on the show that you feel like they're not getting enough. But at the same time, you're just like, what? Come on.

Yeah. Give me more of her. We had seen, we've seen, well, Jana wasn't in it that much either. She got a few lines, but they were all pretty meaningful. I was like, maybe we could have given some of that space to Allison because she's been on the show less than Jana. But, no, we needed all of Jana's lines. Yeah. Like Allison's first line to you, Brooke, was like, hey, it's the least I can do after you save my life. So, what's up with stuff?

I was like, come on, guys. That is one of those, like, speaking of that just no one would ever say. Yeah. But you know what it reminds me of is, you know, we always had to lose so much to the cutting room for, right? Because when you're doing a network show and you have commercial breaks, you've got 43 minutes, sometimes 42 and a half. And this is one of those episodes when you see, especially all the girls in one room and everyone is in the comedic swirl. of just the wheels beginning to fall off, you're like, God, I wish this had been a streaming show

and we could have had the full 60. Because where this would have gone with more time would have just been so damn funny. Yeah. I would have loved to have traded five minutes of the Kellerman storyline for five more minutes in that party with just you women. I don't know about a full five.

I think we could have trimmed two. But I really did. enjoy this storyline between the two of you because I, first of all, I just love all the reinforcements of the friendship between Nathan and Clay. That always feels good to me. And maybe if there's a nostalgia to it that just continues to remind us of where our show came from and this connection between the guys. But I liked the dynamic you guys were doing, I wouldn't call the good cop, bad cop because it wasn't really a game but clay was much more cynical and uh reasonable reasonable and skeptical about about this kid and Nathan having grown up with a dad much like

Kellerman and being a star athlete he understood this kid and was able to like but I liked watching you be yeah a normal person reacting the way most people would like no I'm I'm I respect myself and my company too much. I'm not going to sit here and wait around for this kid. And then to learn from someone that it's not always a hard and fast rule. Like there's nuance to different personalities. And sometimes you've got to be patient and be gracious. And I liked it. I liked watching that subtly happen. And you did it in a way that, again, it didn't feel over the top. It felt very grounded. And I'm so grateful that Steve sat the camera on you and let it live so that it wasn't just cutting away. But we really got to live with your

reactions. I think one of the things I really enjoyed about having a little slowness in this was getting to watch people think. And I really appreciated all four of you guys at the bar having these conversations. While we don't really know a lot about Clay's parents, we know a lot about Julian's dad. We know the most about Dan Scott. We've seen Professor Kellerman. And I really liked getting to see grown men sit around and talk about family and influence. And I liked seeing Clay understand that Ian really was a young version of Nathan, not just because he was kind of a dick and a star athlete, but oh, maybe he has this chip on his shoulder because he's never been good enough at home. That's interesting. That's an experience my friend has. It's something that you watch

Austin nod along with and you're like oh yeah Julian and Paul their whole thing you know he was never going to be good enough and I don't know it's it's really lovely to not only as an audience member feel like you know something and you get what everyone's talking about but it's cool to watch a group of people look at each other and get it and then be in on what they're communicating about both in what they're saying and in what's unsaid, but that comes through the eye contact and the nod or the reference to someone like, oh, yeah, he gets it. I loved that.

And I think you guys, you're all so good together as actors. I really enjoy watching this pack of dudes hang out. It's nice. Yeah, I found in that bar scene, my one beef was that I wish we all would have had more of a reaction. to Julian sharing the news that you guys are going to adopt. However, that's 44-year-old me having that thought, because the truth is, at 28, that might have been.

Like, congrats, dude. Might have been the entire scope. People don't understand the context at that age. Yeah, you know. I think it's also because, like, I like Julian and I want to root from them, like, ask about his experience, hype him up, you know? But again, that's like the more evolved version. of you. I think one thing the show has done incredibly well is that they have really shown

that Nathan has an innate talent and an innate value at being an agent. Because it very easily could have been this like, my buddy clay threw me a bone because my career dried up. And instead, very efficiently, like they have weaved this sort of thing. thread of like Nathan being able to spot things in Clay's blind spot. And it's like, so there are these good things that are happening that wouldn't be happening if Nathan wasn't there. And I just think that's such a service to the character of Nathan. And it also makes Clay look good, like Clay identified something in there.

But again, it's just, it just took a little extra finessing and it makes that storyline so much more rich and valuable because you're like, okay, now I also understand why Nathan would want to do this. Like, he's seeing himself do well. Like, it just, I think they really nailed that. Yeah. And I'm glad they gave him a kid that, or a client, I guess. He looks like a kid to me, but that, that Nathan could relate to so much.

And the fact that the kid was self-aware enough that he's, yeah, he's doing all this stuff. But the conversation that they eventually have, you know, where he's talking, was it both of you, Or is it just Nathan? I can't remember. And he says, don't try and make your kid be like you. Mm-hmm. I think that's on the baseball field when it's just he and Nathan. It was just the two of them.

Yeah. I think. Yeah, just I appreciated that the extra depth of character, this extra dimension, that he wasn't just this cocky kid who's, you know, a caricature of who Nathan was. But he's aware enough to be able to make some. offer some advice and you know he knows what he's doing yeah i think he's very two-dimensional but when you realize his age and what he's been through it kind of makes sense like he's a he's a pissed off kid you know yeah yeah so it works because at the start it's like oh he's he's the bad boy dickhead

who drinks beers on the baseball field it's like oh dude come on give him some shades but then this episode was nice because we did sort of find out like, oh, he has baggage. And there's a reason he is this way, you know? Feels juicy too. What's coming up? The way Nathan said it's going to make your dad upset. And he's like, great, no problem. Yeah. What's coming up next? It's an interesting theme, though. I mean, even you choosing that word, Rob, it's like, that's what Levin, I mean, Chloe says when she comes to Brooke and Julian's door. You guys seem like you have baggage. Yeah. Which means you're going to understand when this kid makes mistakes. And it's really interesting that Ian Kellerman's baggage just reads his bad behavior initially to Clay, and Nathan is like,

I know what that baggage is. He's basically looking at that kid going, I have a set of that luggage. I know what to do with that. And it's a cool runner that they're giving these young people to be trying to process their baggage with a group of characters that our audience has seen process their own in their youth. Yeah, man. And it's actually very interesting. Watching the way Clay responds to the situation and the way Nathan responds to the situation, it feels like the way my brain processes things, where it's like my first thought is usually comes from like ego or fear and it's like, this kid's a dick. He's wasting my time. Like, my first thought is usually, I will make a barrage of assumptions to tell myself the full story and validate a feeling.

And then the second thought is like, but what if I don't know what's happening in his life? You know, because Clay's, understandably so, Clay is like, he's late. Screw him. This isn't important to him. And then Nathan is like, yeah, but if you'd done this, you wouldn't, you wouldn't assign me. And that would have been a problem. You know, so it's kind of cool to watch like, it's sort of like the reptilian brain and the evolved brain. And, you know, it's like, maybe you don't know everything going on.

Maybe we explore. Yeah. It's very cool. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep tradition. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

we made Julian chase a mother flipping butterfly for real. We watched a grown man like Simple Jack from Chopic Thunder chase a butterfly in a field in the middle of a game. And you know what? To his credit, he committed 100%. He made it work. And it was endearing. But like, what the shit?

Yeah, super silly. It was like Sunday morning comic strip. It's very silly. Yes. Very silly. But in the context of our show and all the silly things that we've done, you have to sort of take these moments and suspend reality. And so I was like, okay, he's a director.

He's going to be drawn by little random things like light and birds and butterflies. And of course, he's going to, like, be distracted. He's a little scurly. Okay, next. But, yeah, it's like really a hat on a hat on a hat. But you know what I really appreciate about Austin? And this is even, it's funny, I'm just realizing that it's sort of a pair. parallel thing to the reference you made for Haley earlier.

He's not afraid of the Lucille Ball comedy. Yeah. Like, he's so unbothered about expectation, any of it. You know, it's like, Austin was the guy ripping six foot waves with his toenails painted when we were all in Wilmington. People were like, we don't know what to make of this dude who's like so tall and so handsome and like manly, but who who is like, yeah, you want to. put eyeliner on me, you want to paint my nails, whatever.

Like, he just doesn't give a shit. Yeah. And it's, it's funny to see. And I think you said this, um, a while back, Rob, it's like, he, he makes all the stuff that I think another young actor might have felt dinged by work. It's like, how did you figure out how to be charming in this thing that like, most guys would have been like, what the fuck to the writers?

Yeah. He's just like, okay. Yeah. If you bring your ego to. set, you're going to have a hard time with a lot of Julian stuff. Yeah. Like the only way to do it and not be miserable is to just, like, leave your ego in your trailer and just go out there and just lean into the strike zone, you know?

Yeah. Boom, baseball pun. I liked that Jamie, the exchange between Ian Kellerman and Jamie was great because I didn't remember that. I'm like, ah, where is this going to go? Is he going to say something inappropriate? But I like that he actually gave. him real advice and then to watch Jackson, you know, to watch Jamie get in Clay's kitchen

on the mound was so great. It was so funny because I had the same fear when he bent down in front of Jackson and started being like, okay kid, this is what it is. I was like, oh God, is he going to say some gross thing about how when you're old enough to drive, you can like, you know, take babes out in your car? I was like, what? What? What? What's coming? It's going to be awful. And then it wasn't. And I was pleasantly surprised. I was like, okay, maybe Ian Kellerman doesn't suck so much. Kid Kellerman might not be public enemy number one. And then to see an actual kid do, you know, take the advice you'd been given and throw you off. The way you reacted to him and that close up Rob was so funny. And it just, I don't know, the whole, the whole gag of it was great.

Also, the fact that he, he being Ian Killerman, rolls up in a shiny Porsche. I'm like, isn't this the kid who doesn't have a deal yet? He's a college kid with a father who is a professor. A professor. Single parent income on a professor's salary. And the kid has a brand new Porsche. A highlighter green porch. What is going on?

Highlighter green. It's so good. Like, it fits with that type of character, but like, I think we're two episodes too early for the Porsche. I think you got to sign that deal first and then you get yourself the Porsche. Yes. So silly. Just so silly. You know what I will say was a positive green

and I have not been tracking when it changed. But I guess because we did spend all that time in Brooke and Julian's bedroom in the jumping on the bed scene, I was like oh my God, my bedroom's not purple anymore. It's green. Oh, is that true?

It's like a lovely olive green. And it made me so happy. And I can't remember. remember when we changed it, but I do remember eventually winning that battle and feeling so thrilled. You were like, enough with the purple. I was like, I don't, nobody wants to live in this, no adult. No. You're like, hi, I'm a woman, not Willy Wonka. Yeah. Can we paint this a reasonable color? Yes, I'm not a six-year-old. I would love to not have a unicorn-themed bedroom anymore. Thank you so much. You know, the whole apartment on Friends was painted purple, but the

Decor was like an anthropology, and they knew it was very upscale. It was very, you know, corky and it all worked. But when you try and mix that purple with seaside, I don't know what the kids call this aesthetic now, granny seaside aesthetic, it just is not, does not work. Coastal grandmother is the term. Yeah. Wow. Didn't.

Yeah. Crisp white wine and Diane Keaton and Jack Nicholson on the beach and all white coastal grandmother. Yes. Crystal Grandmother, Coastal Grandmother, but in Lavender, it's not a thing. It was not for me. So that's the green battle that I'm quite pleased that we won. Good for you. Way to go to battle on that hill.

Thank you. How about with Mouth and Millie when she comes home and he set up the camera and he's written stories for her to practice? It's like, gosh, it's such a great lesson. Like he feels, you know, he's got to feel bummed. He's got to feel pushed aside. Like, you know, he lost the job and by accident to his girlfriend. Yeah. Come on.

But instead of sulking, instead of doing anything else that or ignoring it or just trying to, like, pretend like he's happy for her, he actually is proactive for his own self. And like, I refuse to allow myself to sulk. I refuse to begrudge her this. and I'm actually going to actively find a way to put my body into a place of celebratory, a celebratory season for her. It was cool. Yeah, it's really refreshing. They, yeah, by the way, did they have a couple name?

Because in my notes, I said, like, Mouth and Milly are adorable. They're such great teammates. They're starting to give Brulian a run for their money. Did Mouth and Milly have a couple name? I don't know if they could because they had the same first initial. so you can't really combo milth. Methilly or mouth? Mouth.

Mouth. What did you say? Like milf? Yeah, like milth. I think it's milk. That sounds right. Another thing I really liked was, especially given how unhelpful

Haley was to Brooke with the whole monster-in-law of it all, like especially the episode at the Bridal Expo. You remember? Like Brooke calls her down and Haley just completely torpedoes her submarine, accidentally at every turn because of her hormones. I loved that

she was the one who saved the day in this bridal shower, or excuse me, baby shower scene with her toast. Like everyone put their foot in it in a massive way and then the last second Haley kind of sneaks in, she's like, but and has that lovely toast that sort of saves the day.

Yeah, that was sweet. Although she says, there's no one to whom I trust my child more and her sister is sitting right there in the room. Did nobody catch this? I love that you caught that. I missed that. It would have been great if they just cut to Chantel, like, under her breath, rude.

Being like, thanks. Offense taken. Why did they not cut to her? Yeah, that would have been great extra little, like, a rude. Like, I'll explain later. I'll tell you later. You know what's also so funny is obviously, you know, Haley's supposed to be one of many siblings.

but for most of high school, Haley was an only child. And then they were like, no, no, no, she has lots of siblings because, like, all the kids can't be only children. But when you think about it, yeah, like in the experience of our audience, Brooke being Jamie's godmother, makes so much sense. But in the real world, if you were actually best friends with your sister, your sister would probably be the godparent to your child. And so it's, it is a really funny thing where as the, as the years went on and our world expanded in season seven and we got Quinn and Clay and we got to actually be around, Haley's sister, you're like, oh, yeah, this was a, there was a big hole left here, because nobody ever thought we'd get this far.

And now we're here and then she's going to insult her sister and this baby shower. There definitely should have been something like, and then, you know, you travel all the time or just. Some acknowledgement. Yeah. So, wait, I have a question. Did we ever, as a show, attempt to explain why Quinn wasn't in high school with Haley? She's supposed to be the older sister. So she's, okay, so we're assuming she's at least four years older than you.

But Taylor would have been in high school with me. Yeah. Yeah. So they hired a girl younger than any of us in season seven to play the oldest of all the James sisters. Nice. Great. Which literally makes no sense.

But obviously, she was also the best person to play Quinn. So here we are. Yeah. I think Lindsay was, I guess Taylor was two years older than Haley. Yeah. So when we started, we were juniors, right? We started the show we were all supposed to be juniors. Yeah, we started in junior year because we could all drive.

Yeah, that's right. So, yeah, I guess we just assumed that they were out of high school. We just never talked about them. Yeah. So if Taylor's two years. older than Haley, Quinn has to be at least three. Yeah. So it's not, I mean, it's not like a 10-year age gap or anything, but it is funny. Well, with all these other kids that we never met. Yeah. But it's, but it's exactly that thing too of, especially where we all were, when we were

in these seasons. It's like you're, I don't know, 28 years old probably. At 28, especially as a girl in our industry, you can either play a high school student or someone's mom. And it's just, it's ridiculous. Depends on the lighting. Yeah, it's insane. Okay, here's something that I thought was really funny. In the scene with Clay and Quinn in the car, when she's being really still and stuff after everybody's been peppering her about the engagement possibility, and you're like, what's up? You're really quiet.

And she says, just thinking about something the girl said tonight, and then there's just silence. Silence. You don't follow up with what was that? Yeah. You want to talk about it? She doesn't elaborate. It's just silence. Listen, active listening is not one of Clay's strong suits.

Okay? He tried. He made one attempt, but that's about all you're going to get from old clay. Yeah. Or is it just that these two are so comfortable with each other? that silence is comfortable between them. There's also a world in which you ask your partner, what's up, and then they say something someone said,

if they don't continue to share, you can interpret that as they don't want to talk about it right now. Yeah, I guess that's true. If you have an open dialogue with your person, then that's sort of a way of going like, oh, they don't seem like they want to download right now. Okay. I think what felt nice about it was you guys felt so at ease.

and then I didn't really know where it was going to go when she's like, wait, wait, pull over. I was like, oh, God. It started to seem like it's something wrong. And I know they wanted to flash back to, you know, the in-between world or whatever we want to call it. But what I liked was that it ended, that scene ended kind of the way that silence felt in the car for me.

You guys just seem really solid and comfortable. And that was nice to see. What was that? that place. Same. I was like, what? Where are we going? And then it's just kind of odd because it's like, oh, this is the place I wanted to take? So I'm like, was this like a botanical garden that that Clay had seen one day? I didn't know. Listen, it made for a beautiful setting. But you guys had never been there in real life only in the in between, right? Correct. And the upside down. Yeah. Correct. Strange. And she would recognize it at nighttime. And with twinkie lights. He put a lot of

Twinkle lights up. That was a lot of time. By the way, I wondered, but she said pullover, so I was like, well, it can't be. But when she's like, you know, just something the girls said, and we all know it's about getting engaged. And then you guys are walking through a fairy forest. I was like, oh, my God, is Clay about to propose? And then I was like, wait, I directed that episode where you do that. So I should know that it's not this. But in my brain, I was like, what is happening?

Because it looks like a proposal scene. It does. 100%. Like you, I know how I remember very clearly our proposal. And yet I went, did Clay have like a romantic thing planned here? Yeah. There's some strong she's all that vibes going on. Oh, yeah.

I'm feeling a gesture. Nailed it. And no. Yeah. Just pretty lights at night. Julianne Brooke got their happy answer. Got their baby. I got so emotional at the end.

That was really lovely. I know. I know. It's so sweet. I did not know where she was going with that speech. I genuinely thought they had this girl come all the way down here just to tell them, no. Man, how are they going to justify that? Like, this could have been a text message.

Yeah. Well, not back then, I guess. But it could have been a phone call. Yeah. Yeah, but the speech turned pretty quickly into good news. I know. It's sweet. And it's interesting, too.

I like that you didn't really know where it was going when she came to the door, and that I wasn't sure what was going to happen at the end of the shower either. But what I loved getting to see, sort of similarly now that I think about it, to Nathan knowing how to advocate for Ian Kellerman, I liked seeing these two women standing in Brooke's bedroom with this photo of Brooke from high school. It felt like they were reaching across their life stages to each other in a way. for sure i mean she recognized herself in that photo yeah and i liked that in a in the same way that we got to see brook talk to julian about the bachelorette party and just saying i don't know what i don't

know but essentially what i do know is that i always want us to be honest with each other i like that this young girl was like i get judgment and and that brook looks at her and says but i'm not 19 i should know better and then is honest with her and tells her about her life and her journey and all the things she used to not know but how she's always known this it's like i don't know it felt it felt really lovely and maybe it hit me a little harder because we had talked about it from the the hen night episode but it i don't know it just feels really cool to see some of our characters look backwards and you get to see how far they've come. Yeah, I think so too.

And it's always nice when they do that. I mean, it's kind of the same thing they were doing with Nathan and Ian Kellerman, where they're just reminding you, hey, audience, we're bringing in this sort of younger version of these people so you can see how far our characters have grown. So that was a good point. I didn't think about that the way that the two of them, she kind of mirrored Brooke and he mirrored Nathan. That's nice. Yeah.

It's kind of cool to see. and to go, wow, these people really have grown. And then I guess at the end of the episode, we know the boys are going to advocate for Ian. And Chloe shows up and says, I want to pick you guys. And you go like, oh, my God, we're really in these milestone moments here. It's special.

There's a vibe right now where you can kind of tell the writer's room is like, is this going to be our last season? Because everyone is kind of ramping up to a happy ending right now. Yeah. And we thought it was. Yeah, because at this point, we didn't know. So it's like they were doing their due diligence of like, all right, if this is the end of it, then let's make sure we're in a position to give everyone, you know, a satisfying send-off.

Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer. because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. uncle, bonus, whatever, you could impart one lesson onto the kids. What would that lesson be? And why do you think that particular lesson is the most important? Wow. That's so huge. That's such a massive. Yeah, it's a big one. I think mine would be something along the lines of just do you. You know, because I know for myself, I spent so much of my life trying to just figure out what I thought other people wanted me to be. And as opposed to just being like, this is who I am. I'm going to show up as this.

And I think I would have saved myself, boy, a lot of headaches and wasted energy had someone just been like, hey, bud, you're great, you're enough, just do you. Yeah. I remember, you know, getting asked something like this when we were filming. And yeah, it's ironic that you choose that word. Rob because I remember I remember saying it and then thinking oh god am I saying that for someone or am I saying that because I maybe always needed to hear it to not worry so much about being someone else's definition of enough you know when you're young you don't really you don't have

anything to necessarily understand yourself up against which is sort of the point right there's only one you and it's interesting that in my 20s I wish I could have have had that. And so maybe that's why I've repeated it into my 40s. But when I think about really little kids, you know, what was so special for all of us about having Jackson on set and, you know, now that everyone has children in their lives, it's like my wish for them would almost be that younger version of the same energy, which is you're safe here and you're seen. You can express anything and let's let's figure out how to express in the healthiest of ways you know where where they feel empowered to say what they need to be brave or to say the other brave thing which is like

I don't want that I don't know I don't want to try that and yes I might be encouraged to at some point like really just to not to not shrink themselves because I wonder if you had more of that when you were really little, if by the time you were in your 20s like we all were at this point, you might not, you might not even be so worried about the enoughness that we were all clearly questioning then. Yeah. Safety is such a big, that's such a big thing. I mean, that's the thing that causes us to make mistakes or not make mistakes.

Like the fear of making a mistake and trying to be perfect, if you, is because essentially we don't feel safe that we can just mess up and be ourselves. And I mean, I truly think that what you decide, what you think about God, affects everything else in your life. Everything else bleeds out from that fundamental place. So my advice would be to pursue that above everything else, like make decisions about what you believe and what you think about that. And if you can find that place of safety, then everything feels free.

You don't have to worry all the time about, like, if you're performing well enough, if you are enough, if you're accepted, if you're not, you are. You're accepted and you're safe. So everything else can just come out of a place of curiosity and gratitude. But if you don't make a decision about that, then I think there's just constant chaos. That's been my experience anyway. Great question, movie, Mama. Yeah.

Ooh. Let's spin a wheel. Most likely to stay calm during a crisis. Immediate character answer is Dan Scott. Yes. Probably because he's the one who started the crisis, but he's definitely the eye of the storm. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that's my default.

I don't know how you guys feel when crisis things happen. It's probably from like childhood trauma. I just immediately go into like, I will handle this. I must be in control. So I tend to settle. It's like go way down when there's some sort of crisis. How do you guys handle emergency situations? Yeah, I get a similar.

Everything kind of gets stripped away. like it gets pretty like nuts and bolts just what needs like what needs to happen you know I think yeah I think I kind of slow down which is funny because there are very small things that will happen around the house that I will be so tight and like worked up over but then when something huge happens it's like okay X and then Y and then Z yeah it's going to be fine I'm exactly the same it's like a noise at a pitch that is hard for me makes me feel like someone is carving into my bones but like there could be a natural disaster and I am like got it I can organize the team this is what we're doing you three have a job you two have a job

this person's doing this I'm gonna go do this everybody stay calm keep your voice and it's the weirdest thing but I yeah I don't know if that comes from you know haven't been a camp counselor or what but it's like I don't stress when something enormous is happening but small small things going wrong can like really trip up especially when it's like one after another in a day and they're just dumb little things but yeah

it starts to grate on your nerves it's harder it's harder all right next week episode no what do we got see season 8 episode 17 the smoker you get the player you get

interesting attempt at a center I'm going to need some information as to how that made it. We need a little context here. Yeah. Well, guess what? You got to tune in next week for that context game. It's coming at you, but you have to wait. Come back, friends.

Thanks, everybody. See you later. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-TH.H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl.

Dramma girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that. culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop.

Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.