Drama Queens - Adam Kinzinger

Episode Date: July 22, 2026

If former Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger could go back to the end of 2023, knowing everything that's happened since, what would he tell himself? He reflects on what America has become, why he believes it’s okay to change your mind (he now votes Democratic!), what still gives him hope, and why he understands that tomorrow isn't guaranteed for politicians or democracy itself.To learn more, go to https://www.country1st.com or https://www.adamkinzinger.com.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Friends, we are joined by an old friend of the podcast and someone who I absolutely love to talk to. Adam Kinsinger is back today. And we're diving into some of the big questions that I think are plaguing many of us in 2026. For him in particular, what happens when you risk everything to defend a principle, to do what's right? And no matter how hard you fight, you watch the country move in the opposite direction from that rightness, from democracy itself. It's something I know our friend Adam thinks about every day.

We last spoke with him on the show in December of 2023, and we talked about the cost of breaking with your own political tribe, what it feels like to, fight to protect democratic institutions and why his belief that saving democracy would require all of us across party lines to put our country over any political loyalty. And in case you've been living under Iraq, unfortunately, since then, Donald Trump has returned to the presidency, the criminals who were tried and convicted on January 6th, who were tried and convicted because of their participation in the January 6th, assault on the Capitol, have all been pardoned. Many of them have gone on to commit further heinous crimes. And many of us are standing in our own country looking around, wondering, what happened to accountability?

What happened to truth? What's the future of all this? Adam is perhaps one of the best people to talk to about where we go from here, because he's lived one of the most complicated versions of this. American moment. He was a Republican. He is a veteran. He's a former member of Congress. And he walked away from political power rather than stay silent after January 6th. And now as our institutions and our political leaders are really testing the boundaries and we are all attempting to create some sort of stopgap system for our country between us and authoritarianism, Adam might be one of the best people

for us to talk to about how we do that. His experience offers a rare look at the cost of standing by your principles, and an initiative that he founded is doing some incredible work for all of us who believe in this country and want to hold on to the best version of what it has been and what it can be. Let's dive in with Adam Kinsinger. It is so nice to have you back on the show, pal. How are you? I'm good. What about you? It's good to see you. I'm well, you know, it's that kind of thing. We've talked about this before. Like, I'm so happy in my house.

And then I look at the world and I'm just like, come on, America, be better. I know. I know. It's funny because it's like whenever I talk to folks and you ask that question, like, how you doing? You don't know how to answer because you don't want to be like, I'm great because it's like, hey, somebody just got shot in Maine a few days ago.

Are you really great? But it's like, I think we have to be good at being able to like, hey, I'm personally happy. Because if we're not personally happy, it's kind of like letting the other side win anyway. Yes. Well, and you know, I'll never forget, God, it was a long time ago when President Obama was in office and a great nonprofit group I was working with that was working to protect kids around the world. On this particular cause, we were really focused on what was happening in Uganda with the LRA. And we brought 10,000 kids to Washington.

And we did this huge march to the Washington monument. And it was like, it was magical. And John Prendergast came and spoke. And he said, you know, you have to celebrate. Because we were doing this big day of protest and activism. And then we were throwing like a rager of a party because it was college kids. Like, you know, you got to give them something fun to do at the end of the day. And he said, this isn't fluff and this isn't frivolous.

You work all day. You better rejoice at night. Yeah. You march in defensive people, you better make sure you're still dancing. And I've never forgotten that. Because if we lose the plot on how much fun we can have on a random Sunday with our kids or how great it is to see our friends, even if it's on a Zoom for an hour, like, then we've lost all the joy we're supposed to be fighting for in the first place.

Yeah, yeah. It's like, what's the point then otherwise, right? If we're all just going to be miserable, then why try to make anything better? And, you know, it's interesting because I get people, when Memorial Day comes along, you know, everybody's kind of conscious and like, happy Memorial. Oh, I can't say Happy Memorial Day. Because it's like, no, you know, when people gave their life in this country, they gave their life with the expectation and hope that your life would be enjoyable. So, you know, recognize the sacrifice folks made, but then go have a barbecue, have a good time. You'll see sometimes the pro-Russian trolls on. you know, social media that'll show a picture of people, you know, drinking in Ukraine or whatever. And they're like, well, it's not really a war going on. It's like, yeah, you've got to be able to celebrate life. Otherwise, what are you doing, right? What are you fighting for? What's it all for? I'm really curious how it feels for you. Because, you know, when I think about

the last time we had you on the show, it was 23. You know, we were coming to the end of your term in Congress, you have been such a champion for the country, for democracy, for what's right, for telling the truth. I remember way back in the day when you and I first met in your office and we stayed in touch ever since. People were like, what do you mean you're friends with that Republican guy? I was like, that's my homie. Like, he's great. And, you know, when I talk about what it means to get back to a non-autocracy, to a sane democracy, I'm like, we need some sane, we need some sane Republicans. We need some sane people everywhere who are willing to actually debate ideas to get down, drill down to better solutions rather than just scream at each other

from, you know, either side of the aisle to see who dunks more on Twitter. Like, if you could talk, not to us, you know, in 2023, but even to yourself, like, as a veteran, you know, as a member of Congress as a person who's taken on so many service roles, knowing what you know now as we're halfway through 2026, like, how would you talk to Adam in 2023? That's a tough one. I would say probably the first thing I would say to myself is don't lose hope. Because in 2023, I had no clue, none of us did, that Donald Trump would get reelected, that you know, we'd have mass deportations that we'd turn and hate each other just based on political.

I mean, it was starting that. But I think the big thing is to not lose hope. When I got out of Congress, you know, after all the January 6th of and the committee, it took me a good year or two to come to grips with the emotional toll that really took on me. So I often say to people like, you know, when you're in combat, nobody has post-traumatic stress in combat. You, you know, you, All you're doing is like you're focusing on. You've got your objective you have to take, etc. It's after you come home where that settles. And that's what happened with me.

And I think the struggle that I have had, and I still continue to have, is just this. You know, I had a 3 a.m. today, doom wake up, you know, where I wake up at 3 a.m. And it's like, boom, things are pounded around in your head. But it's that idea of, you know, look, I really believe the American story is going to, to reflect that this was a low point, but we came back in a huge way. And that's what that maintaining hope is. It's like, look, yeah, it feels like forever still in front of us that we have this president or this division's happening.

But when you look in hindsight, you know, look at your life 10 years ago. It feels like it was yesterday. In hindsight, you know, being able to write this story is what matters. And I tell this, too, Sophia, like, first. friends that say, you know, what can I do? How more can I fight? And I'm like, the best thing we can do is to not get discouraged and not give up, right? That's the best thing we can do because all know people that have kind of written off the country and moved on. And that's what we can't have. But yeah, the other thing I'd say is the next three years are going to be tough, Adam,

stick it out. Yeah. Well, I think what frightens me is damage at scale like this. because, you know, people are, look, people are busy. I don't say the following to sound like a judgmental asshole. I really don't mean it that way. I just happen to be a person like you who pays attention to political systems and policy and how these things affect people, you know, at a state and a national level. It's my passion. Not everybody has time for that.

And also other people have other passions. But when I think about how long progress takes because you have to build, You know, I kind of liken it to building a house. It takes a long time to pour a foundation, set it, trench for plumbing, get the framing of, get the insulation, and get the roofing done, get the windows installed. It takes 10 minutes with a wrecking ball to take a house down. And I don't think everyone's quite caught up to the wrecking ball that this administration is taking to the whole country, to our health care, to our school systems, to the ways

we protect and care about our preschoolers to our veterans to science like the brain drain all the scientists who left the country people don't get what that's going to do to us yet and it that's the thing that frightens me and what gives me hope on the inverse is that all is not lost not all the systems have been wrecked i see courts saying no all the time you know he's he's losing constantly on things. He tried not to pass the housing bill and it became law after 10 days anyway. It's like, all right, you petty little bitch. You want to throw a temper tantrum like a five-year-old?

Well, the law is the law and the law is done. So there you go. And is it unfortunate that a president refused to sign a bill to help the American people no matter how they vote? Yes. Is it to be expected with this guy? Yeah. But like the courts are still working.

And yes, some of them are filled with his cronies that are breaking the law, but not all of them. And like that, that to me says people are really trying to hold the line. So as a former elected official, do you also find hope in the courts? Or are there other arenas that you think are doing the best job standing up to this right now? Yeah, I mean, look, the court side of things has been a bright spot. Now, that doesn't mean I agree with everything. the Supreme Court's done, right? Well, not. But on these certain things, the court has held, and these are, by the way, Trump appointees that are doing this. So that's a good thing.

And I think, frankly, without the courts having done what they've done, we'd be in a much worse situation. I think I liken this moment to, and particularly come the election in November, assuming that Democrats at least win the House. It's like a freight train right now. Now, you put the brakes on a freight train, and that would be the selection in November. Now, that's good. We put the brakes on. We can see what the future is, which is a stopped wrecking, you know, train plowing through stuff. But the train doesn't stop immediately.

They're still going to be a few years in front of us, the stuff being broken. And before I get to the optimism, the pessimism is, I worry what this does to our psyche. Like, kids that are under the age, I say kids, but they're grownups, under the age of twice. They don't remember politics without Donald Trump in the mix. They don't remember politics with people that used to be able to disagree respectfully. And how do we get back to that after? And that's, I guess, a question for the future. But the thing I have hope in is, yes, the courts, yes, the no-king's rallies.

Yes, the people showing up in Maine to protest the murder. of a, it may not have been American, but he was legally here. That's the thing. Americans, here's the thing, when you live in a real authoritarian country, you know, right now you and I have called 180 degree vision. We can look out and we can see, we care about somebody being shot in Maine because it matters to us. We care about, you know, people having rights.

All that matters. When you live in an authoritarian country, your vision goes. to hear. It shrinks. And it becomes, is my family okay? Am I surviving? Do I have a job? And that's it. All the other extraneous stuff you don't care about because you can't control it. And you want to stay out of, you know, the bad guy's way. That's not America right now. We are engaged. We care. We've not acquiesced to this idea that it's out of our control. And, you know, who knows what he could try to do in November. But we have an election coming. up and it looks like that election is going to be a check. So I guess that's what gives me hope.

And, you know, but I'm not going to sit here and say I'm overly hopeful because that would just be dishonest. Well, it's hard to feel, it's hard for me to feel confident in the things I'm hopeful about when, for example, leading into the midterms, he fires the whole election commission. And I'm like, hmm. So those of us who said he's probably, going to try to steal or cancel the election. We weren't crazy, just like we weren't crazy that he was going to overturn Ro. It's a strange thing for the first time because I'm not, you know, 19 or 20. I do remember. And I think because my family immigrated here, you know, my mom's mom came to America on a boat. The Ellis Island story is like canon in my family. My dad came here in the 70s and he didn't

become a citizen until I was 13 years old. Wow. So when people say to me like, oh, do it the right way, I'm like, my dad's like a middle class white dude from Canada and it took him almost 20 years. Like, slow your roll, you know, and it drives me crazy. And I think about, you know, what it means to believe in this country. And it is a surreal thing as, you know, a woman in my early 40s that I do remember. So I know that young people are, they're the first generation where the American political system has taken rights away from us instead of continued to expand our rights, to expand our protections, to aim for us being the land of the free, the freest country on earth.

Like the fact that we now are in a battle between democracy and authoritarianism and our rights are being taken should be like the, you know, when smoke alarms go off like in a whole hotel, that godawful sound, you know, with the screaming machines at the end of the hallway. Like that's how, I'm like, that's how we should feel right now. And you realize that they've just, they've moved the Overton window so much in the last 10 years that people are kind of going about this. like it's business as usual, and it's really not. I agree, and this is where, because again, I mean, this is a crazy thing, it has been 10 years. And it's like, 10 years of this. Yeah, you, you, I just, yeah, I mean, I was watching, I forget what movie it was,

was watching a movie, and it was like, filmed in 2016. And it's just like, somehow that 10 year gap, like, bro, I'm like, man, this kid, anyway. And we've been, like, programmed in this. And I think this is where, you know, my message to Democrats, which is, you know, what I have voted now for the last four years, my message to independence, my message to, you know, any of the few sane Republicans left, although I've struggled to see how they could be left. But, okay, is like we need to return to the idea of, it's kind of overused, but like first principles. Like, we're a country. What are we actually a country for? So we may not be able to point back and say, hey, you remember when Reagan and Tip O'Neill, used to have a beer because now that's a long time ago.

Yeah. But what we can say is, do we want to live in a country where everybody's angry, everybody hates each other, everybody's, you know, worried about somebody else enjoying their life and they're angry, or do we want to live in a country where we just try to make it as pleasant as we can for everybody? Listen, like, politics was invented because cavemen got tired of thunking each other on the head with big sticks. And they're like, you know, something,

this isn't going to work. And they decided, okay, let's create these ground rules that we can settle our differences and figure out how to live together. All politics is, is like, okay, how best do we all live together? And now you have a party that's in control. They're angry about transgender having rights. Like, okay, how does that affect your life at all?

They're worried or they're mad because, you know, gay people can get married. Really, how does that affect your life? They're happy because a woman with an atopical pregnancy, you know, can't have that taken care of. And I think, I guess I say all that to get to the point of they have been programmed by Fox News and other places to just believe that if somebody else is happy that you don't like,

you shouldn't be happy and you should try to change that at them. And I think if we can just return, and I think the younger generation is going to be good at this. But if we can return to like, let's just try to make this as pleasant as we can for everybody, that's how we go back to winning the fight again, I think. I really like that. And now a word from our wonderful sponsors. I like to eat well.

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congressional elected. So many people, it seems like, because of the temperature of things are afraid to change their mind because then they think they've been owned or something. Yep. You just said that so casually. Like, yep, I don't agree with what's going on. I changed my vote. Like, that's how simple it should be. What do you consider yourself now? Are you kind of party agnostic and politically specific, you know, how do you do that? How do you encourage other people to say, like, yeah, if you don't like what you're seeing, change your mind? Yeah, I mean, I still hold the title of former Republican because I think that gives me some credibility in the audience I'm trying to reach. And for 12 years, I was an elected

Republican. That's not something I run away from. But clearly, I'll say this, you know, I was always a moderate Republican, the party, I didn't leave the party, it left me, right? It became something that I don't recognize. You know, when you talk about conservatism, like conservatism to its actual roots is about less government intervention in your life. It's about a budget that's balanced as close as you can get to it. It's about a social safety net. And what this party has become is how mean can you be? How angry can you be? And so for me, it became a matter of like, okay, look, Sophia, I may have told you this before,

but this is a buddy of mine, I wear on my wrist. His name's Andreas O'Keefe. And he was killed in Iraq in 2018. And, you know, I remember thinking, this is when I ran for Congress, so before he died. So in 2010, I just remember thinking, if I'm going to take votes to send people to war, to train them, to give them the equipment to fight, to ask them to be willing to die for this country, literally the ultimate sacrifice.

If I'm going to do that, I have to be willing to give up my career for the same cost for the country, right? If I'm unwilling to take a vote that's going to cost me my job, but I'm going to ask somebody to go give their life, that makes me completely unqualified. And unfortunately, 99% of the Republican Party is that way. And so that from my voting in Congress transferred to,

can I really vote Republican ever again? And look, when everybody running as a Republican has to swear allegiance to a man over the Constitution, and they can't think for themselves and think independently, honestly, I didn't have any other choice but to leave. the Republican Party. And so I would encourage people. And here's the difficulty is we've made our political viewpoint kind of our tribe. It's our identity. And so when you change or you leave, you're not just changing how you vote. You're changing your social circle, right? And I think people fear more than they fear death. They fear getting kicked out of their tribe. I mean,

I think nine out of ten people would step in front of a train to save a child, I think. But I don't think nine out of ten people would do the right thing if it meant they lose their friends, their family, and everything else. But I will tell you, on the other end of it, you can look at yourself in the mirror. You find new friends and you just feel better about yourself. It's right. Yeah. Yeah, I think that's a really beautiful way to put it. you know, the fear of what it might cost is so often something we examine on a personal level.

But if we started to examine it in a society, you know, in a community, in a culture, frankly, in a matriarchy, you know, there's this idea, right? Like all the men's rights loony tunes are like, oh, you know, they want to, the feminists want to come and like, they just want to step on our. next now and I'm like you don't realize what you're giving away because you've had your boot on our necks all this time Ruth Peter Ginsburg literally talked about it for her whole life RIP and it's like no guys in a matriarchy you center the children the men and the women input equally to support the kids and the next generation and when you center children the byproduct of that centering is that you also take better care of women yes but men are healthier And clearly this like patriarchy on Andrew Tate steroids isn't working for you guys.

Like it's not me. It's not my social group that's committing suicide at the highest rates in America. That's yours. This is not working for the men. And so for me, it's like what I what I kind of wish we could do is consider, okay, if our whole central tenant, if the most important thing to us is what is the world we're building for our children and our neighbor's children. like all the children are ours, as James Baldwin said. Like that then shifts our behavior. Then we're not burning the planet down for some 80-year-old billionaires profit. Then we're not, speaking of conservation, watching the president sign away three million acres of public lands in sacred spaces like Bears' Year's National Monument and other places.

That you will never get back. We'll never get them back. And they're not his to give away. hours. And this is something that I actually think our parties need to get better at working together on is the economic messaging with future planning. Because to be clear, continuing to burn fossil fuels is stupid. And it's an economic waste of money to try. Trump wants to like turn on coal power plants again. That's a waste of money. And it's going to and it's going to ruin the air for everyone, not just Democrats, not just Republicans, you know, to cancel out green energy projects is lighting

hundreds of millions of dollars on fire. The idea that we as citizens pay into America with our tax money, let's talk to, let's talk to each other like we're investing in something, because let me tell you what, if I invested in a company and they took my money and they gave it to somebody else and lit it on fire, I wouldn't keep investing. That's right. Our tax dollars are supposed to protect our public. They're supposed to ensure we have lead-free pipes to drink water out of in our homes. They're supposed to ensure that the air is clean. They're supposed to take care of us. Like, we're sending, you know, we've spent $129 billion on a war with Iran that no one wanted

instead of passing universal health care. And that's our money. It's not his money. It's not abstract. It is our money. And in that way, like the fact that, we don't talk about the ROI of our taxes drives me nuts. And I think that's something that, you know, when I say sane Republicans, it's like we remember the McCain-O-Bama era, right?

Like, they'd have a beer together, not as old as Reagan and Tip O'Neill, but like, that's the sort of thing we need to start to think about is what do you want your money to do for you? That's not socialism. That's literally a return on your investment and that's what taxes are for. That's right. You know, and it's, You had mentioned kids, obviously, which I think is extremely important. And I have a four and a half year old now. And I remember in making decisions on the January 6th stuff and what I was going to do, I just remember thinking like, so Kinsinger is a pretty not common last name.

I can't really hide with that last name. And I'm like, someday he's going to read in the history books. And he will see his last name. And how could I ever tell, his name's Christian? How could I ever talk to Christian? about courage, about doing the right thing. You know, everything a parent wants to instill in their child. How can I do it?

If he can open up the history book and then say, well, Dad, let me talk about this time in 2021 with Donald Trump. And that is the same for all of us here, right? When it comes to things like fossil fuel and green energy, do we need fossil fuel now? Yes. Do we want to get off of it? We should absolutely want to get off of it into renewables, into green.

And so what do you do? You can understand that, okay, there's still an energy need here, but let's invest in the future. And even if you don't buy all the actual real science of climate change, even if you don't buy that, well, understand something. So if I'm speaking to my fellow to a conservative Republican, that's like climate change isn't real, which is insane to believe that. But whatever.

It's like China is kicking our backside on green and, energy futures. So outside of the moral implication of it, don't we want to be the world leader on whatever that next technology is? Yes. It's a national security issue too. Yes, absolutely. And instead, there's this obsession among Trump and his accolades with everything that was in in 1950 should be in again, right? Everything that was cool. And all the guys worked at the coal plants. Let's go back to that. All the women stayed home. Let's go back to that. I mean, it is, it is some memory of a country that never actually existed except on leave it to beaver. Yeah, or in like Greece. And you want to know what my theory is. It's actually kind of

crazy. I don't know if you saw this, but it was, it was really funny. Somebody did a really cheeky compilation for pride of all the, like, clips of Trump. talking about men in the most like, I mean, overtly, like, objectifying, you know, talking about a golf player's penis and talking about, oh, he's still big and strong and all these things. And part of me was, like, do you think he wants to go back to the 50s because he wishes he was like a gracer? Because, like, those are the guys he had crushes on, like the muscles in the white t-shirts with the rolled sleeves and the leather jackets up with the gel. Like, I genuinely go like, oh, maybe somebody should just put him in an office and play Greece on repeat and leave him there.

So the rest of us can try to fix the country. You know, like go have a crush. You don't have to be ashamed. It's 2026. You're allowed to be whatever you are, sir. Don't take your anger at yourself out on us. And listen. I mean, that's what it is, though.

That's what it is. It's what it is. I've got my own stories of Trump. It's interesting. The first time I met him in person, he had just gotten elected. and I didn't support him in 2016. He knew that. He was angry at me.

So like February of 2017, I'm invited to the White House to talk about, I think, Syria or something because I was pretty hawkish on defense. And so I'm sitting down, and I expect that he's going to chew me out for not supporting him. And I'm like, okay, he's the president.

He's going to do it. I walk into the Oval Office, and the first thing he says to me, there's probably a group of eight of us. And he goes, you're great on television. You look really good on television. television. And I'll, well, thank you, Mr. President. I appreciate, no, you're really good on TV. And honest to God, I'm not making this up. 50% of his attention was focused on me and telling everybody

how good I was on television. Now, there's a manipulation factor to that. But I also heard him talk about, you know, men that were injured in the war. You know, we were talking about Afghanistan and men that were injured in the war. And he kept talking about how all these guys have beautiful faces and her beautiful faces have been, you know, destroyed by, it's, there's something going on that's unique about Donald Trump. I'll leave it at that. Well, maybe that's why Lindsay Graham decided he liked him so much after he was honest that he was a traitor.

Who knows? You know? Maybe so, maybe so. What a crazy moment it's been, right? My God. But listen, can you imagine Lindsay Graham, I believe, believed that when Donald Trump was gone, you know, whenever that is, he believed. he could write his reputation after that.

This is a reminder, tomorrow is never guaranteed. Never guaranteed. So make sure you can look in the mirror today because there may not be a tomorrow to fix it. I think about that a lot. And I think especially, you know, for those of us who understand how quickly things shift and who do pay attention to policy,

how it affects people around the world, we all know how many people have been killed by the USAID cuts. You know, we know how cruel this administration is. Totally. You couple that with having young kids and you go, I got to do everything I can do to try to fix this. Was that your goal, the idea that we can build a better tomorrow right now? Was that why you founded country first?

I really want you to tell the people listening about what it is, how it works, how they can get involved. Because I'm really amped about this. Yeah, I mean, look, right kind of right after January 6th, I just, I just, you know, started country first as this idea of like how do we fix the republican party and it became clear to me pretty quickly that that was not the mission the mission was something much bigger and i had because there were a lot of people joining them that were left right center and what they wanted was a mindset it doesn't mean we lose our party affiliation but a mindset of like we can be republicans or democrats or something else but the first thing we need to do is put the country over anything else because

you know, look, I mean, let's go back to the Lindsay Graham example. The guy was a famous politician. After you and I talk about him on this episode, not many people are ever going to mention his name again. And I don't say that to be, you know, dark, but the reality is when we go away, whatever legacy we're thinking we're leaving only exists in the effects that we change,

in the people we change, not in our name, not in our fame, not in anything else. And so that's what country first is. It's this like reminder to people to put the country before anything else to understand that the next generation, we have to leave the next generation

a country better off than we inherited. Like every generation is done because we're in threat of being the first generation that doesn't do that. And so within that, we've got a whole bunch of different programs, including reminding the National Guard what their role is. I was a National Guardsman, you know, going after what I think are pretty bad Republican members of Congress in the Senate. And then there's other things. We're just facilitating

conversation. It's been amazing. I've loved it. The website is country1ST.com. And so yeah, I encourage people to go take a look. Yeah. I think it's really special. I think it's exactly what we were talking about kind of at the top of the hour that we have to be in community with each other. That's right. And I think, you know, the greatest way to kind of undo bias or prejudice is to let people get to know each other. You meet a person who falls under a classification you've been taught to fear and you break bread with them or you see pictures of their kids and you're like, you're pretty great.

Yeah. Why does the news want us to hate each other? And you realize it's a ruse. And let's take like the example of when you were. when I met. I'm sitting in my office. You were meeting with somebody across the hall. Yeah. Came out, saw my name and said, I wanted to go meet him. And we, you know, we became fast friends. But one of the things you realize is like, everybody thinks they're the good guy, right? Even Al Qaeda thinks they're the good guy. And so the key is not just beating

somebody down, but understanding where they come from. And then showing them your compassion and your willingness to listen. But at the same time, I will also say people that are insurrectionists that stand against democracy, to me, those are people I don't find common ground with because they operate outside of this structure that we built for us to explore and enjoy our differences. And also, I have enjoyed now that I'm basically a Democrat after the January 6th stuff, I have made so many friendships with people that are Democrats. Hardcore Democrats, people I never thought I would have anything in common with. And you're like, we actually have a lot in common. It's pretty cool.

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I think you're right. I think, you know, when we talk for our friends at home, when we talk about building you know, greater buckets of unity with people who might have different opinions so we can build a better future, we don't mean insurrectionists, we don't mean fascists, we don't mean people on the Epstein list, we mean the rest of us. You know, there has to be a line.

And my hope is that we can do our jobs and the courts can do their jobs. I mean, so many of those people were tried and convicted based on evidence and the president pardoned them and I think it's a literal crime against the country. But here we are. So we've got to build forward. I'm really curious for you. you know, as you look at the landscape, like, would you ever run again? It's a great question.

You don't have to know yet. No, I'll give you the most honest answer, which is when you're in politics, you're always thinking about what the next thing is. You're always planning. You always have this thing. And I've learned you probably experienced this in your own career. Whatever you plan never really comes to fruition. And then you end up with these. surprise opportunities. I have the fire in my in my belly to get to run again. I really do. I also

recognize that where do I fit in? You know, what is that? And so I guess the best answer is yes, I would love to run again, not for the house. It would be something different. You know, governor, senator, even president someday. But I am not trying to force that to happen because Because people can sniff out in authenticity too very, very quickly. I want to be authentic. I want to be real. I want to be true to myself. And wherever that fits, yes, I'm open to.

And until then, I'm going to continue to engage every day. I've got a substack. I'd encourage people to look at. Just go to Adamkinsinger.com. I'm going to engage and try to influence the conversation where I can. I love that. Well, count me in. You know, I'm always team AK.

Yeah. Last time you were on the show, we talked about your work in progress. You said yours was that you had to learn that you can't save the world alone. And that's like a big aha thing to accept. I'm curious, three years later, what feels like your work in progress now? I would say now my work in progress is, it's going to be a little more personal. So how to be a better father and a better. husband while staying engaged in this.

One of the things, just being very real that I realized after I got out is the impact that the January 6th timeframe had with my wife that I didn't recognize. I mean, she talks about, you know, I'm in my office literally with my gun out thinking that I may have to defend myself on January 6th. she's at home thinking, realizing what it means to be the wife of a politician and worried that I'm going to be killed. And to my shame, I'll say, it took me a few years to recognize that the impact of that that had on her was huge.

And so my work in progress is more personal. It's just how to be a loving, understanding, good husband and father. And also maybe translate that into my first. fight here. I can't save the world alone. That is true, but I can save the world with people like you. I love that. Yeah, there's something I think about when you hit the point in your life where you realize you bring your personal more closely into your professional way of being is actually like a healing in itself. You know, there's something that that does for you. Yeah, and you start doing the, I think it hits in your 40s, at least it did,

for me where you start doing the backwards and forward math thing, you know, like, when I was 18 years old, that was 30, shit, I hate to say it, it was for me 30 years ago. So, like, in 30 years, I'll be 78. And you start to realize, time goes by fast. I've got a limited amount of time. That's my most precious commodity. And, yeah, and how do I, how do I invest that in the people I love. Wow, that's beautiful. Thanks for coming on the show today. We always love to have you.

Anytime, you bet. Thanks. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.