Drama Queens - All About The Boys • EP 708

Episode Date: September 9, 2024

What an episode! Everyone was blown away by the opening scene! But, why was this episode all about the boys and why does Joy think there were some missed opportunities? Sophia, Rob, and Joy dive into it all.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Hi, friends. Welcome back to Season 7, Episode 8. I just died in your arms tonight. We are very excited to talk about this episode, which originally aired November 2nd, 2009. It revolves around. Julian agreeing to go on a weekend camping trip. But he struggles to fit in with Nathan and the guys. Back in Tree Hill, Brooke and Haley spend a girl's night doing a little bonding of their own. And Quinn helps Clay come to terms with a tragic loss. Meanwhile, Dan and Rachel's shared. past catches up to them. This episode was directed by Michael Leone, who was our script supervisor for all nine seasons of the show, who we adore. And my God, this was so fun. This episode was a blast to watch. What an episode. I was blown away by the opening. Paul in Mexico with these, like, the surgeons over him. And then the music and the, I mean, everything was, where are we? What is going on? what the heck episode is this? I loved it.

Listen, we could do an entire episode on the depiction of the Mexican hospital. So, again, I'm watching as a new viewer. And so I assumed this is a really weird dream sequence. And it wasn't until later in my notes that I wrote, holy shit, that's actually a real memory. It was like a morphed memory, right? What in the Spanish telenovela is happening? I also, and look, maybe I'm a little, being a little too sensitive, but I was like, I don't know why this has to be the, the dream. I don't, I was like, why are we, what's happening here?

This feels not classy of us. Well, it's not a dream, though. But it was cartoon, it was like when Bugs Bunny is about to do surgery on someone, when they, when he squirts out half the syringe. Yeah. And he's like, okay, senor. Oh, so tacky. It was terrible. I didn't understand why that had to be so exaggerated and like comedically bad.

It was so ridiculous. Well, it was ridiculous and harmfully stereotypical. And offensive, yes. And I was like, oh, no, because when you get to the end of the episode and then you realize it's some version of real, I'm like, this is just so insulting. And it plays into these horrible. stereotypes that we know hurt people. And I was like, why? How? Nobody ever wanted to hear this feedback from us as actors on the show. But I'm like, isn't this the reason there's a standards and practices department? Should someone have been like, we're not doing that?

You have to figure out a more creative way to say that he bought an organ on the black market. Like, guys. Well, so first of all, he would have. have died if that actual doctor took that sod, it was, like it was like a haunted house horror thing. But also it was, I thought, so just dumb and offensive. And then it, the button, the cherry on top of the crap Sunday is Rachel going, yeah, there was a family whose teenage son was on life support and I paid him five grand to take him off. Yeah. I was like, come on. Come on. Well, yeah. And by the way, watching that, my note, I mean, I know we're skipping ahead to the end. I was like, could we not have had her say he was brain dead?

Yes. She, I think she kind of says, like, he wasn't going to make it. But I'm with you. Like, make it terrible. I'm like, no, you have to be very clear because families, you know, in the most tragic thing that could happen to you make that generous decision. Oftentimes, they will say, okay, we know that this person, you know, God forbid, knock on what I don't even want to like conjure this. but someone was in an accident, you know, their neck broke, you know, no activity in the brainstem. They will never, ever, ever.

There's nothing, there's no medical miracle that could help this person. But if the family makes this decision, you know, their organs could save 13 people. Like, that's an incredible thing that does happen. And, you know, I'm one of those people who reads the stories about people who have organ transplants. and then suddenly the person whose heart or lungs they got, their favorite food becomes the transplant patient's favorite food. Like, I cry like a baby at that stuff. There could have been some sort of way

to have told a beautiful story of what happened to Dan Scott. And we did this thinly veiled racist, gross stereotype thing. And Rachel's a monster who paid a family to kill their kid. I was like, I got to go. I have to leave. Very, very different show. And what does it make sense? sense is all of the offensive stuff serves the story in no way. Right. And the rest of the

episode's great. Yeah. So it doesn't make sense. Yeah. Even in the sense of the flashbacks, like having it be some cartoon character of a doctor, it wasn't like the surgery didn't go well. It was a successful heart transplant. Right. Why did it have to be some ridiculous depiction? Seedy black market. Like dirty walls and no you know, no surgical gloves. I was like, what are we doing here? This feels not, not great. It felt like a nanny,

nanny carry type. Yes. Like fever dream, not an actual depiction of what happened. It was very weird. And why Rachel was in like a out for a night in Vegas club dress in said CD hospital? The whole thing.

I was like, what are we doing here? I mean, she looks beautiful. But I was like, you're in a room where a man just had open heart surgery. Like, what are we doing? doing in the leopard print with the titty's out like well god forbid the audience forgets that she was a stripper for a moment and yeah exactly it's like it's hard to forget how hot she is we know the information it does give us is that rachel is much worse than we think she is that she is uh that she the fact that she would be willing to do something that awful wicked evil whatever you want to

call it gives us some really valuable information about her and any any question mark we maybe had in our mind about yeah we know she's kind of pulling the puppet strings and she's manipulating a few things but is she also maybe kind of also looking for a redemption of some kind of no that question is officially answered for me after that but but is there an argument to be made the love of your life, like, is there justification and going, this kid's probably not going to make it? The love of my life isn't going to make it. Yeah. Maybe we can find a win-win here. Like, I do think there is an argument on her side. If, if, I agree with you, she's coming across as nothing but cold and calculated. Yeah. But I think in her defense, I think if she was saying,

like, the guy I am in love with was about to die, desperate times call for desperate measures, it muddies the water a bit. There's all kinds of complicated decisions that have to be made on a daily basis. I think if it had been better written, instead of going, what we would be doing is, like, I would imagine, Joy, you would say, I would do anything for Maria. Yeah. I'd be like, cut me up and take a kidney tomorrow.

You need a lung, whatever it is. Yeah, but I'm not walking into the hospital room of a family whose kids on life support and being like, listen, I got some money in the bank. But that's what I'm saying, if it had been bad. better written, they could have actually made us feel the way we felt last week, where we went, oh, this whole dynamic is really good. And I see, is Dan being redeemed? And does he really feel this?

And through the pain, is he growing? And is he just trying to save his son? Like, it could have been that. And we know they're capable of it because they literally did it one episode ago. And instead, they've done this thing that, to your point, feels. Like they've made a character we've grown to really love feel irredeemable. Well, how effective would it have been if there was a scene of her not in a leopard print dress and normal clothes, waiting in the, just sitting alone in the waiting room, like, concerned. And a doctor comes out and tells the family sitting next to her, hey, your son is a vegetable with zero chance of a quality of life.

Yes. And she's overhearing it all. Then it's like, okay. Then you see what she did and why. We see some humanity in it. Yes. Yeah. And it doesn't have to be a cartoon.

I mean, the hospital doesn't have to look like cedars, but it doesn't have to be a cartoon black market. Like the kids in a bathtub on ice, they're cutting the kidney out. You know what I mean? Like what we see in what the equalizer? What are these movies? You know what I mean? Like, where are we?

Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is. very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Changing gears, let's talk about Nathan this episode. Like, let's just leave that. Yeah, we all know it's problematic. It's the only part of the episode that is shaky. Yeah. However, I will say I had a genuine beef with Nathan's freaking attitude this episode.

Yeah, why doesn't he like Julian? What's the deal? Dude, talk about coming out of left field. And it's dumb because I think they just want to build runway for there to be a turn at the end. Yes. But all he is is a giant tool. And here's the problem. Julian is infinitely likable and adorable.

I have a small crush on the character of Julian. Austin plays him brilliantly and beautifully, okay? Yeah. And watching Nathan just be a dick at every single opportunity he has just makes him look terrible. I don't understand it. He's punching down. It's such a weird choice. And it's one thing, how cute it is, especially because we know, listen, like a lot of guys are lonely. We see the statistics in America. I imagine, you know, this loneliness epidemic we have now easily goes back 10 years. But it would have been really easy to do what we did in the beginning, which is I'm encouraging him to go and you're telling Nathan he's got to go. And for the women to be like, we have our best friends that are like our sisters. This guy moved here. He's left his whole life behind.

All of his friends are in L.A. And he's bombed. Like, take him out. You know, he sits at home and he watches movies and he's doing research and he's trying to write scripts. Please get him out of the house. And then it could be like, okay, the jokes could have been them trying to talk about sports. And Julian doesn't know anything about sports.

And then Julian trying to talk to them about. film directors and them being like, we don't know who any of those people are. There could have been an inability to communicate. But even from the get-go, he walks up and Nathan can't stand him. Have they even had scenes together before? Not really. And it just doesn't track. And it's like, Cool Runnings is an awesome movie.

Yes. And if you like Hoosier is better, fine. But why are you looking at this guy like he has four heads? Because he likes one of the most likable films of all time. It's so weird. And it's so, it doesn't make sense also because, again, like, Julian is the new kid and he's earnest and he's excited. Yeah. And then Nathan is there with all of his friends.

He has zero reason to feel threatened, every reason to be inclusive and kind. And instead, Julian walks up and it's that, hey, Julian. Julian's coming. Why are you already? You're pre-bumbed. No idea. And then it's just, he's an absolute tool, the whole episode to him. And Julian is nothing but sweet.

And also, listen, I got to say, I'm jumping ahead a bit, but I full on gasped and couldn't believe it. Brooke and Nathan made a sex tape in high school. Our show characters made a sex tape in high school. How do you think I felt when I got the script? I was like, I'm not doing that. I am not doing that. And they were like, yes, you are.

And here's what I'll tell you, Rob, is the episode where this gets discovered. The episode opened with Peyton. It was like a high school party night. Peyton and Nathan had gotten into this huge fight. And when Brooke tried to cheer Peyton up, she said something so, like, so insulting to me that we got in a fight and I walked away.

And then Nathan sat down on a couch next to me, and he talked about how awful Peyton was being to him. And Brooke told Nathan what Peyton had said to her. And they were like, basically they were like, well, fuck her. Like, everyone was kind of drunk. And they made this like really inappropriate decision together. And in the episode that aired, they cut the entire beginning out. So the reason that Nathan and Brooke did this went away. And then Brooke just looked like, the worst friend in the world. So, like, I'm still bitter for the characters. And now it's all coming to light again.

And I'm like, granted, I did think it was very funny. And all the boys being like, well, okay, good night. Yeah, that was funny how it came out. It was very funny. But, yeah, that's a real punch to the gut. But also just in high school. High school. This is horrendous.

Yeah. The fact that even after that devastating news comes out. it that Nathan still for a little while is rude to him yeah what's the deal it was like is there a secret jealousy at play like I found myself going I must have missed something from a previous season from last season no he didn't it was so heavy handed especially after everything Nathan just went through usually go through something really intense like that you know you're eating some humble pie the fact that he even though he didn't do anything wrong it's like still you You've reassess your life.

You reassess, like, the way that your relationships are going, all those things. He doesn't have it in him to just, like, welcome somebody, be nice to somebody. It's really weird. It doesn't track. The only thing I could think about, and I did write this down, because I thought the comedy of be prepared, travel light. They were doing these callbacks in separate places very well. And then when they all came together and you can tell Julian's not in on the joke and he makes the Bill Murray joke, it's so funny

and I thought oh here we go and then Nathan comes in with that kind of sucker punch and I wrote oh this is when it begins this is when we officially cross into the bullying of Austin

in season 7 like poor sweet human and and then I wrote a question down to ask you guys it almost feels reminiscent of high school Nathan being so awful to Lucas

before they become friends And I was like, is it just that we miss Lucas and the writers think this might work? Because in the end, they finally bond over having had really terrible fathers. And Julian admits to Nathan that he doesn't know if he wants to have kids because he doesn't know if he'd be good at it because his dad was so terrible. And then Nathan gives him that gift of all parenting is his instinct and look how good you are with my kid. Like, you knew that my kid was actually embarrassed to tell me he was afraid, and I didn't know that. Yeah, I loved that.

And I thought that was so great. But I didn't understand why we had to go to, like, season one, episode two, mean Nathan to get to present day good dad, Nathan in 42 minutes. It doesn't make any sense to me. But do you think that that was, like, kind of what they were trying to do, maybe? is bring back early Nathan and Lucas vibes. I don't know. But that relationship doesn't run parallel to what Nathan and Lucas were. I love you being like, don't give them any credit.

They just did a bad job in this episode. I just don't think it was, I don't think it was just well done. Like, well crafted. It was so odd. And also, you know what, Julian walks up in the first thing he does is he fist bumps someone. How are we going to go then and say the man doesn't know how to high five? Well, and why does the episode end with them fist bumping and Julian saying to Nathan, that's my first fist bump? Exactly.

Come on. This guy's been working in Hollywood. He was like, you know, if this is the guy that works with Vanderbeek's character, like, clearly he's a mover and a shaker and he knows how to behave in cool social circles. It's so bizarre. Hey, and listen, this episode, it flies the petty flag pretty high a couple times. There's another instance where I kind of went, oh, tell us. When Dan and Rachel are in backstage, I think it's Rachel who says, we need something big for sweeps. Then Dr. Phil can suck it.

And Dan says, well, maybe we can get Lucas to do a guest spot. It's not like he's doing anything. And I thought, because I, you know, I thought, oh, that's for sure. our boss taking a swipe at Chad. Yes. And it just felt so. Oh, and of course, and there's a built-in pause. It's petty.

Where he says, because he's not doing anything. And then they cut to Rachel and they give her a beat of air before she moves on. They make a point to stick the landing on the insult. And it just, like I said that to me, I was like, there's our boss taking a swan, an unnecessary swipe at like, what a 25-year-old kid? Like, what are you doing? It's a very weird vibe. Yes. Well, the same reason that Julian had to be emasculated and turned into this completely goofball.

I mean, it's lovable. That's a testament to Austin's abilities as an actor. Yeah, it felt very unnecessary. And it's weird because the actual episode is so much fun. The dynamic with all of the boys and the ghost stories and the camping and us at your house. It's actually such a fun episode. So when these, when we stoop, when the writing stoops that low unnecessarily, it almost packs a bigger punch because you know it doesn't have to be like that. Yeah, it doesn't fit.

It's like what doesn't go? Why are we doing that? We're in season seven. So, yeah, we're all in our later 20s. We're all probably 27 now, which means, you know, Chad was probably 29 because he was a little older than us, right? Yeah, but what did he think he? was watching the episode. Chad's not watching the show. And this is what I'm saying is like everyone's still pre-30 and the people writing these jokes are approaching 50. Like, how are we more mature than you guys?

It's so embarrassing. So embarrassing. Okay. I don't just want to focus on the petty. I want to say how much I love Antoine Comedy Hours. I enjoy him so far. I do. I do. So, freaking much. And the genius idea of having skills go to the army surplus store to get little army pins so he could give the boys badges for getting him beer and making him food. Badges. Genius idea. Yes, I have it too. It's so good. I was like, why didn't I have that when Maria was little? I literally was like, I'm going to save that one. That's a great. Oh, yes. For every time you're babysitting or playing Auntie Sophia to all of your friends with kids and you show up and you're like, Here's what I need you to do.

I have a badge. And how great is the bit where Chuck goes, my mom says you can't marry Miss Lauren because you don't make enough money. And he goes, well, guess who just lost their, what does he say? The line is, well, guess who just lost their keep their damn mouth shut badge? So good. Something else funny on that hike was mouth trying to give Julian the don't mess up, don't mess with my friend speech.

Oh, my God. It was so awkward because he did it so nicely. It was like with a smile. And then he says, yeah, well, if you heard her, you'll answer to me. And he says it on this like up note, like, you'll answer to me. And then walks away very quickly. And then skills comes in with the perfect follow-up. He goes, hey, he's been working out.

Trust me, I've seen him naked. And everyone's like, what? What is going on? They're so good together. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first, native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The pot party, first of all, we have a weird thing going this season with just casual drugging. Do we? What else? There's a shit ton of pot in these brownies and they don't tell Haley, which I just, I just think it's a dick move. Maybe it's the 40-year-old. Yeah. No, her sister's been feeding her pot since she was like six, I think probably.

I guess it's just on the heels of the fashion show. where Alex drug the shit out of the model, like just Willie and Ellie, watching you get drugged, I thought like, damn, really? Like, after all you've just been through recently. But I will say what I loved, though, it opens after, like, the three shot from inside the oven. The oven opens. Yes. And do you guys remember the Sunny D commercials where the kids would open the fridge and be like,

we got orange stuff, da, da, da, da, sunny D, sunny D. Yeah. Your guys' dialogue even fits it so perfect. where it's like, oh, these are like, these are like the special recipes. I love the sister's special recipe. I was like, this is a sunny decommersial with drugs. Yeah. This is great.

It's so funny. I also really love, I don't know, again, maybe from this stage, knowing how intense parenting is because everyone in our world is a parent or an adjacent parent or whatever at this point. I loved that Brooke was like, you deserve this. Your child is out of town. Have a good time. Like, mop's night off. And it was so funny to me because I was like, oh yeah, people do, you know, whether it's getting stoned with your friends or like, I don't know, going my speed is more like, can we go to the spa for the day if we're alone? But having like a day off, Sands kids and like letting loose, it's so funny to me that Quinn's like, oh yeah, we used to do this to her.

only does it seem less creepy because Quinn makes the suggestion that this is like a family thing. If someone did this to me, I'd be so pissed. But spending that disbelief and leaning into it, it's just so fun and funny. We're like true Beverly Hills. The boys are in the woods and we're home in the fancy house. Totally. And it's knowing Haley's parents and how hippie-dippy they are, I can see, maybe not six. I'll go with, you know, 15, 16 is probably when they started letting her have these brownies. But I think I could totally see her Hayley's parents being like, yeah, give her a half a slice. She's got to stick up her butt anyway. She's too intense. Give Hayley a little slice of brownie. Like that, that checks out

with this family to me. I just think it's really funny that the reveal doesn't come until years later. It's great. Yeah. You get big points because you committed to eating this brownie. And it was my favorite thing because you guys know, eating on camera is tricky. That's the reason you see most actors taking tiny bites of food, because not only is it hard to eat food for like 30 takes in a row, but also it's hard to look pretty while eating food. Like record yourself eating. You look like a llama. It's weird. You go in on that brownie.

And when there's the reveal about like she's having two and it cuts to you and you're like looking up while eating it, I was so proud of you. Oh, thanks. Because it's funny as hell. And I was like, there's zero vanity in this. It's just her going for it and she sells the shit out of it. Well, and that's the perfect moment, too, to get, you know, scene direction where you have to eat because you don't also have to talk. So you could really, like, you went for it because you didn't have to take a teeny tiny bite so you could deliver your next line without a full mouth. And when you look up and a chunk of brownie falls onto the plate from your face, I was like, that's it.

That's it. Thank you guys so much. I have a note that I was like, I literally, it was a point when I was sitting on the island when I looked like a monkey, like just hunched over all of this food. And I had like spaghetti hanging in my mouth. And I was like, oh my God, this is horrifying, but also kind of fun. I was really nervous about doing this because I had never gotten high. So I didn't know what, I mean, I had been drunk before, but I had never been high. So I didn't know if I was acting correctly.

I didn't know what the experience was supposed to feel like. So I remember asking a lot of people, what does it feel like? What do you do? What happens to your body? What do you, you know, what does it feel like in your brain? Are you seeing things? Are you hallucinating? This one was, it was tough.

I'm really glad that whatever I did worked because watching it, I was cringing because I couldn't tell if it was realistic or not. I still have never been that hot. No, that's not true. I was once, but it didn't do that to me. I didn't get hungry like that. But I loved your version of being high, the paranoia, hiding behind the pillow. It's so fun.

Well, and I loved that, that Quinn's like, oh, great, she gets chatty, you get paranoid. Because it's such a true thing. And I think I finally had to come to terms with, like, that's just not for me. Every couple of years, someone will be like, no, but weed's different now. You'll like this. this is really good for inflammation. This will make, you know, you'll sleep great, whatever. And every time, it's been long enough that I'm like, okay, I could try something else. I'm like, this is why I don't do this. Because I do. I get so hungry. I eat everything in the pantry. And then I start having an existential crisis and I'm like, I have to go to bed. It's just not for me. I'm not built for that. And I also don't think I knew that about myself then. So to watch it now, I'm like, oh, I really leaned into what they said happened to Brooke. And actually, we're the same.

Yeah, I'm the same as you. So if I just eventually realized, I'm just going to skip the part where I get stoned and just order dominoes because it always ended the same. It was like me with $50 of dominoes alone in my apartment eating until I had a stomachache. And I was just like, this isn't, I would have every, I never once would have that experience and wake up the next day and go, good use of my time. Yeah. No.

This isn't the life I want. Yeah, this never ends cool. I never wake up the next day going, I made some good choices. No. So I thought you both played it, the paranoia and the snacking. I was like, this all is accurate. I loved it. As a viewer, I didn't balk at a moment of it.

I believed it and I enjoyed it. Oh, good. I loved that we got to have a good time. I wrote in my notes, God, I miss doing this much comedy. Yes. I love the physical comedy. I loved all of the jokes. And the fact that Quinn ditches us, and then it's just me and you in a baseball bat in the house in the dark.

Like, I was like, this is exactly what I wanted. And I was also, as a viewer, really enjoying getting to see Brooke and Haley have a good time. Yes, it's been so long. God, we've just, like, been through the ringer. Yeah. And it's so lovely. It felt like high school again. Yeah, it was really nice to dip back into that feeling.

I really loved that. I love that Quinn got you two super stoned and then dipped out. I know. That was so funny and perfect. It was just you two left alone, terrified. Oh, my God. And then the psychic comes. It was before she ditches us, but it's so good.

Although, especially with the psychic coming, this episode for the girls did not fail. I mean, we did not pass the Bechtel test. No. Because, I mean, everything was still all about the boys, all about our trouble about the boys. And it did feel like a missed opportunity to me. I wish that in the moments when we were like worried about our greatest, talking about our greatest worry, it could have been something that, I don't know, that was less about, what about our boys? What's going to happen with them? Like, I don't know.

So, what is the Bechtel test? So the Bechtel test, it's a metric. which they measure how things are represented on screen. And for us as women, they will literally ask, can a group of women, you know, two to three to five women, whatever, be in a scene and not be talking about men. And it's very rare that a group of women in a scene are talking about something other than men. Wow. Yeah, you'll start to notice it now. Yeah, it's pretty wild. But for three sisters, yes, we're all going. We all had some dramatic things happen with our men. But I really can testify. I mean, by the time we were our characters ages, I don't know, what were our characters at that point? 28-ish? No, I mean, we were 27 at the time. And I think our characters were, aren't we all only still 22? Maybe we're 23. That's the whole thing about how young you are. When you talk to Nathan in episode seven, it's like, You're young. You're supposed to go to parties and drink with your friends.

Like, we're young. Well, I was still talking about boys at 22. That was still definitely like a big thing on my mind. But maybe because that's how we were culturally groomed to think because there was no vectal test back then. I don't know when it started. But we had an opportunity to show young women how three brilliant, strong women could sit in a room together and talk about other things besides men. And we didn't quite get there in this episode, although it was really fun. And I loved the poking at this psychic, who is just so bizarre. Like, she comes out of nowhere. She was a fun actress. But here comes this snake oil salesman psychic who just, you know, waits for us to tell her everything.

And then she gets the thank you for it. It was great. But she somehow knows there's a bunny in the house. She did. She knew about the bunny. That was strange, especially since we laid out the fact that, she's just full of hot air that it was odd

that at the end she suddenly knew that there was a tiny hamster in an upstairs closet but it did provide Brooke the best line of the episode of that Zelda's a bitch

I laughed I loved that one or debatable the Invictus was also a really great line is it Invictus No by the way

when I said it I was like we got away with this I know me too I saw a rep Very funny. Do you think when that actress got the breakdown for that role, she was like, we got this one in the bag. Because she was, she was as perfect as Zelda's psychic as you could be.

She was so great. And I like that she was able to tow the line. She didn't play it like a total schick. It was a gimmicky role, but she grounded it in a way that when Rook is stoned and just telling her everything she's paranoid about and asking for validation, it works. But when Quinn is talking to her, she gives her real good intel. And suddenly you go, wait, what's happening here? What does this person know? Where is she getting the vibes?

Like, is she a jockey, fake psychic or is she kind of psychic? Also, Quinn has a psychic in Tree Hill. She just moved there. I know, it's so random. Who has a psychic here? Didn't Quinn just get to town about a week ago? A couple of weeks ago now, I guess. Like, what she was like her first order of business?

She gets to any new town. She's like, I need to find a psychic here. She's like, got to find the local gym and the local psychic. Okay. That's your priorities, Quinn? It's super, super strange. Okay, let's talk for a minute about some more Clay and Sarah because at first I was like, wait, why are we just doing this again?

You're just in your house again. It's the same, it's not the same thing, but like, why didn't they let you go on this trip that would have been so interesting to see and by the end of it i obviously realized why because it was just super helpful in the device of bringing you and quinn together but also um i actually started to really enjoy seeing more of it and i it makes sense the way that tv was viewed back then that you know it had been a whole week and so people probably needed more of it to fill up it wasn't enough just to watch this one thing that we had seen in the last episode um i i I appreciated that you guys seemed to find new levels in spite of the fact that a lot of the material on the page sounded very similar to what you had just done in the previous episode.

Your emotional levels were varied and it was surprising that you were able to find those. I always appreciate that as an actor because as we know on TV so often we'll get scripts and we're like, why am I just saying the same thing like four different times? Yes. So it's not always easy to do that. And also, I really love Amanda Schall. I love seeing her on my screen. Like, I need more and more and more of her. And I know we're going to get more.

What I really loved about this is, obviously, last week was so heart-wrenchingly sad. And, you know, in the storyline of you, too. And I loved that we got some comedy with you, too. I loved getting to see the humor. I loved getting to see the way you crack jokes and tease each other. I loved, I wrote down, you know, when she first started to get out of the pool, I go, oh, give me a break. They're going to make her do the fast times at Ridgemont High thing. Like, it's so stereotypical. And then she makes fun of you for being stereotypical. And then in the next scene, she's in like a turtleneck and a scarf in the pool. And she teases you about overcorrecting. Really smart. It was just so great. And it made me, it made me really love the two of you together in a way that that suddenly I could understand. understand, not just observe and be empathetic with your feelings, but I was like, I get why he

doesn't want to forget any of this. I get why he's afraid to let someone into the room that she used to occupy in his heart because look how great she is. Look how great they are. It felt really fun. And that's not the typical experience of watching, you know, someone grieve a ghost. Yeah. And I was, I found it so refreshing and enjoyable to watch. watch you too. I feel like the scenes with Sarah are when we're actually really getting to know the true clay. Like I feel up into this point, we've seen his persona as like his public facing clay and we've seen what he does for work. But this is the first time we're like we really see clay at rest. Like this is who he actually is. And it's sweet. It softens him up. You know what I mean? But it was it was nice to see this stuff because it felt like, oh, this. is the authentic guy underneath all the other stuff. I did have a question, though, because

it gets it's almost a little heavy handed with how much Sarah is advocating for Quinn. Yeah. Because it's, she says, like Clay says, I meant I could never love anyone as much as I loved you. And she says,

except for Quinn. And then Clay says, it's not like that with Quinn. And she says, I could always tell when you were lying. And I just found myself going, has there been enough stuff for Clay to be in love with Quinn? No. Like they've talked and they've maybe connected, but is it, it felt a little quick. Yeah.

I think it would have been so much better for, for you to say it's not like that with her. And for her to say, but it could be. Yet. There's something in there that you haven't felt with anyone else and for him to go, no, there isn't. And then for her to say, I could always tell when you were lying. That's how I took it. I felt like that was the way to make sense of it, but it would have been better if it had been on the page like that. Yeah, it would have been nice to know that she was seeing the seedling of something rather than being like, you're in love with her. You're like,

I'm not. I kind of don't know her. Yeah, it kind of felt to me like it was the show rushing the fact of like, our two new characters are going to be a relationship. ship. Yes. So just so you guys know, they're about, they're going to fall in love. It was kind of like, oh, we have, we got 22 or 24 episodes, guys. Like, we don't need to rush it. But it was like, just so you all know, we lost a couple, but we picked up a couple as well. In fact, I think it would have been even, it would have packed a bigger punch in the scene in the rain when you were in front of his, in front of her car. And, and he gets into her car. And the two of you are just sitting there in the rain talking, which was such a great scene. Really romantic. Really. there was so much chemistry and passion and power in just the two of you sitting on opposite sides of the car talking. It was great. But I think it would have even been more powerful if she hadn't already spelled it out. This is a very common thing I think that we see in soapy TV or when you've got a room full of writers that are just kind of churning out a ton of episodes. They will explain something before it happens. And you're like, why did you just tell me you were going to do that? Why didn't you just do it? I'm watching. There's times for telling and then there's times for showing. Yeah. And sometimes it's very weird to look at, to essentially look at an audience and say,

we're going to show you this. It's coming. It's like we're literally, we're watching. I'm here. We're here. Just show me. A bit behind the scenes of this scene and specifically the rain scene is I remember Shantel and I reading this scene and going,

this needs to be out of a car. This needs to be in the rain. This is a powerful moment. And us lobbying really hard to Mike Leone, hey dude, let this happen in the rain. Let me catch her as she's running into her car and let us just be standing there in the rain. And thank God he said no.

And I think he may also just kind of said, do you know how cold the water is? I've done rain scenes at this point in my career, but I will tell you up to my career at that point. And every job since, I have never experienced rainwater that felt like it had just come from an ice melt. It was the coldest water I had ever felt. And I remember thinking, thank God he didn't let us stand in the rain. Because if he did, it would have just been way too cold. And it would have been.

Oh, just miserable. And it played great in the car. It was weird. Like you said, it was weirdly intimate. Like us just sitting there, not even really looking at each other a whole lot. The rain is for, you know, if you're standing in the rain, plus that was such an iconic thing for Nathan and Haley. I think they might have also been protecting that moment and not wanting the audience to feel like they were trying to be sold something as a redo. Yeah.

But there was something about big, wild romance in the rain. But the intimacy, you're right, that's a great word for it, of sitting in the car together, buried in the weather, buried in water, buried in your environment and surroundings, and you have this little cocoon, and it's just the two of you, and it's quiet, and you're sharing. It's not a big share. It's a quiet, like, reach out for help. Like, I'm willing to extend my heart and my hand a little bit. Can you meet me there?

it was really nice yeah it was really beautiful and that scene on the beach uh that that comes after that scene first of all it's funny because both of us are very dry like our hair is a tiny bit damp and it's like we got wet at least i did i had to run to that car but i was like great i love it our hair is just slightly damp that's fine but my favorite part is the payoff is that clay goes at the end of it when they're just talking on the beach clay says uh why don't you stay a while And she says, tell me more about Sarah. Yeah. I thought, oh, man, that is such a loving, that is, there's such, that comes from such a place

of compassion and confidence, like she's not threatened to buy it or worried. She's just like, lay on me. Like, I want to know. And I thought that was so, so beautiful. Same kind of thing Julian does for Brooke in the previous episode, too, just showing up and listening and being there and like okay this is not perfect romance you know movie 101 romance it's real life and it's real life stuff you really show up for someone yeah yeah i will say because i was going to say it earlier when we were talking about the julian and nathan of it all and i forgot and

you saying that just reminded me being able to see julian's emotional maturity is so important for Brooke, but it's also really nice as a viewer. And there's, there's even a beat. We've done some inappropriate stereotyping in this episode. And I really hated, uh, at night when, you know, we're sort of at the end of the evening and Nathan's in the tent and Julian's in a sleeping bag and they're kind of joking with each other. And Nathan's essentially saying he won't let Julian sleep in his tent because he made a broke back mountain joke. And I was like, that is, so not appropriate. Like, are we really doing this?

And I loved that the maturity that Julian shows is like essentially being like, bro, get over yourself. You shower with other dudes every day. Like, stop. Stop. Stop acting like a child. Yeah, he finally calls him out. You know, he calls him out.

Yeah, and it's so nice. And whether I think those sorts of displays of. of whether it's, you know, rebuffing cruelty of something that's inappropriate or showing up and saying, I'm a safe space for your emotions, give me more of them. Those things are really refreshing to see in characters. And I loved seeing Julian handle that situation with Nathan in that way, and I loved where they went because that led them to have this whole conversation about both having had bad dads. and how it's affected them as men.

And then on this flip side with you guys, when Quinn puts her emotional maturity on display for Clay, it packed more of a punch to me because I got to see Clay tell Sarah that he'd never told anyone what happened with her. You know, no one in his life now. None of his clients, no one in Tree Hill knows. And she encourages him to tell someone.

You know, it's what we do when we talk about therapy and mental health. Talk to someone about what's going on with you. And it's so beautiful that when he opens up to Quinn, instead of saying, whoa, that's a lot, she leans in and says, I can handle it. Yeah. It's nice to see safety. Did you know, Rob, that this storyline was originally supposed to be in the pilot? What? This storyline of the dead wife who we think is a real live person.

And then there's this big reveal that she's actually dead. This was a storyline that was created for Whitey, that we were supposed to meet him with a wife. His wife's name is going to be Camilla. Or it was still Camilla, but. And I think they decided that there were just too many elements to the pilot. There were too many storylines to follow. But this was something that had been,

they had been holding on to for a long time because they wanted, for whatever reason, they wanted to do it. And so you got something that had, you inherited the storyline that had been tracked and, you know, waited for and sat on a shelf glowing, waiting for so long. Oh, cool. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it did.

does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people, people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we have any questions from listeners? Oh my gosh, you're never going to believe it, but our listener question this week is from someone literally named Quinn. Quinn. So points to you, Quinn. Quinn's question is, imagine your character could host their own podcast.

What would be the main theme and who would be their first guest? Ooh. I mean, Haley's going to be, it's going to be like Tudor Girl. It's like something, something with Tudor Girl. Oh. English.

English and math. I feel like Brooke would want to do some sort of culture podcast. Like fashion, music, the sort of intersection of all of those arenas. Yes. Don't you think? I think so, too. I think that would be her vibe. Maybe Haley and Brooke have a podcast together and it's like interspersed. It's a tutoring and then you get your five-minute break where Brooke tells you what's going on in different cultural moments and then you're back to. Yeah, we're teaching.

We're teaching all sorts of things. Tudor girls. I feel like Clay could have a cool sports podcast. Yeah, I was going to say, I think he would go sports podcast because that would also allow him to not have to talk about himself. It would be a constant source of material that he could just talk about without ever having to really get vulnerable. And where Clay is right now, he is not in a place to really get vulnerable. His first guest, obviously, it's a layup. It's Nathan. Oh, yeah, easy.

Yeah, first guest. Let's spin ourselves a wheel, shall we? What do we got, kids? Most likely to live on Mars. Zelda, called it. Who would be on that rocket? Who would be like, sign me up for the strip mall, the Ad Astra strip mall?

I think that's a Dan Scott thing. I think he has the sized ego that he'd be like, I would love it. And I'm like, sir, do you realize you might. might just be signing up for fancier prison. Like, I think it's not great. Maybe do work here, fix things here. And he'd be like, no, I'm going.

I'm pioneering. I'm going to space. He has that same sort of weird thing that I think Elon and those broligarchs do. And listen, I don't know if it would make sense for the character, but I would love to see an episode of skills in space. Sign me up. Mars needs skills. Yeah. Great.

He'd be great. It would be awesome. Oh, friends, thank you for joining us. The next episode is season seven, episode nine. Now you lift your eyes to the sun. Very, very poetic and dramatic. This was fun. Can't wait to see what happens next.

We're getting into it. Oh, no. Bye, friends. Have a great week. Bye, y'all. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H.

Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.