Drama Queens - All Eyes On Dan ᐧ EP516

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

The girls dive into the one and only Dan Scott, where his behavior would land him in real life and why Joy describes him as...a vampire.  And speaking of real life, find out why Sophia admits that she relates to Brooke. Plus, the girls discuss the importance of women in power.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. You guys, welcome to this episode 516. Crying won't help you now. When did it air, Hillary? It was May 5th, 2008. Cinco de Mayo. Ooh! We had no fun in this episode.

But perhaps we went out for margaritas this day after work. I don't know. Peyton Sawyer took a whole ass flight to New York City for a day. She sure did. That's such a move, such a power move to confront someone on the other end. of a flight. Yeah, we'll talk about it. We'll talk about it.

So, well, Peyton confronts Lindsay about who Lucas really loves in this episode. Lucas investigates Dan's heart condition while Haley struggles with whether or not to let Dan into Jamie's life. Nathan urges Quentin to reinvent his game and Brooke is learning

to juggle her career with life as a new mom. Plus, Peyton's trying to assuage her guilt over Lucas's breakup. And our very own Marvin McFadden gets his first shot at being a sports anchor. I loved that. Yeah. That was a fun storyline to watch.

Did this air after like a break? Because there was a lot of exposition in this, like resetting things up. Maybe because it's the first episode in May. Don't kids have spring break in April? I feel like April. Did kids get amnesia during spring break? I don't know, but if they take us off the air for, you know, two or three weeks to sort of cover all the rotations of spring break in the in the you know schools i do feel like wasn't it always

april was a big month for us in wilmington where people would come yeah and like be outside of said and watch us film and because that's when a zalia festival was yes i do think it might have been that sort of rolling delay of two or three weeks they would take off to cover all the spring breaks so the ratings wouldn't dip it does feel like a catch-up episode i my favorite line was actually in the last episode when Nathan says to Dan, maybe you should have thought of that before you shot my son's

great uncle. No, they're saying there's no jump. Our fantastic producer just jumped in and said there was not a jump. Listen, we just needed to reestablish some canon events. Okay. We just needed to repeat ourselves? Yeah, rather than Nathan say, well, you should have shot

of that before you shot Keith. before you shot his great uncle. It's such an odd thing to say. Or by the way, before you shot my uncle. We were just talking about the exposition about having to remind everyone like, we're all related here. And I'm a businesswoman.

Case, you're just tuning in for the first time ever. Maybe we were trying to capture new people. I don't know. Could have been. I don't know. Well, I thought the standout for me in this episode was Lucas Scott with the Zingers because Lucas had so many zippy little lines

that would like end the scenes and I was like, oh, writer boys got some sats. I loved it too because so often that character is written as being like really soft and introspective. And he was just punching people verbally in this episode. And I loved it. I thought it was so great.

And it was a nice side of him. It was nice to see. see him be mad. It was nice to see him, you know, have feelings that weren't all intellectual. It was cool. I liked Lucas a lot in this episode. And it was fun to see him. He was in his Uncle Keith plaid shirt, Uncle Keith vibes, you know. He was just kind of taking care of business just the same way that Keith did in this episode, I feel like, you know. And Keith always had a sassy line. He did. He just had that sense of, it was always the alpha move at the end of the day, like Keith was so settled back in his gut in himself. And I liked that about

Luke, I mean, aside from the Lindsay thing, which was tough, but Lucas was in his gut in this episode. He really felt comfortable with who he was and what he thought and had no problem saying it. I liked it. Yeah. It was actually kind of an understated performance, I thought, too, from chat, just so settled. Well, that's it. He didn't hammer it. But when they're talking about Dan potentially dying when he's talking to Haley? And he goes, couldn't happen to a nicer guy. More deserving guy, yeah. I also just about fainted when they're at the beach house.

And Dan's trying to push Lucas about HCM and say, you know what this is. Like, essentially you're my son that got it. And he says to him that without a trans fan, they'll be dead within six months. And I wrote down Lucas's line, but you're dead to so many of us already. so really what does it matter? Brutal. Savage. I loved it.

He's been waiting to say that for a long time. I loved it. The zippiness was used for good, not just evil in this episode, because of the scene with Brooke, where she says, thank you for being here for us, and he says,

thank you for letting me. Like, again, like, he is the punctuation of the scene. Yeah. And it's a strong final word. And it's not, like, It's not overwhelming. It's just a boy that knows a young man who knows what he wants and knows that he wants to be the good guy.

Yeah. And he's going for it. It's a funny Freudian slip, though, because when you think about him as a boy, he was so different than this. Lucas, on his own as a boy, was not handling things well, was always searching. He just was, he needed approval. He needed whatever girl was around that he was pining after. and yeah, he loves Lindsay. He's not sure what's going on with Peyton,

but he's not lost in it. He's still centered in himself. And I really like seeing that in Lucas. And I also like, you know, to your point that things weren't overly communicated or hammered so hard in this episode, I like when somebody can mirror your honesty and your vulnerability back to you.

And I remember really liking the way that scene felt when Chad and I were shooting that scene with the baby at the end of the, you know, heart doctor visits and whatnot, because work doesn't let a lot of people really be there for her. She's in this season where she's really showing up for everyone, but she's not asking for a lot. And that's something that I certainly work on in therapy. Oh, baby, let us in. You know, and I've had that moment with friends where when you express gratitude that someone has shown up for you and they remind you that they will show up if you let them, it's like, it's so, it's so authentic and it's so true. And it was nice, I think, because the baby gave, you know, offered really a device for Brooke to open up. And it's nice, again, we talked about this a couple of episodes ago, but when you see people experiencing these healthy platonic friendships,

just another nice dynamic to watch. It's like not everything has to be romance or drowning or car crashes. Like, you can just show up for your friends and help them through things. And I really enjoyed it. And it's not always a threat. Yeah. To have that platonic friendship, even if though you used to be together and there was some complication like it it's not a threat to still be friends later and have you know each other actually

there's the comfort in it that's really valuable in having someone who knows you that well yeah and i saw that between them maybe we've just met haley and lucas like like 10 years past their romance like i bet when they were six years old everyone was like haley and lucas sitting in a tree and we're just seeing them 10 years out oh yeah they were probably each other's first boyfriend and girlfriend maybe first kiss. For sure. Like kindergarten, besties. Love it.

Hands on the playground. Yeah. And so now that we get to see Brooke, you know, almost, it's not quite 10 years out, but, you know, some years out, they get to mirror the Haley Lucas relationship in a great way. Because you know once you reach that place with Lucas, it's forever. He's so loyal to those people in his life. and so it's good to see that set up and that was full display in this episode. And how interesting that you say that

because Haley with Peyton, I loved those scenes with you guys the fact that you share with her that you told Lucas not to Mary Lindsay before the wedding and you read that book and you know the way that the subconscious and our feelings get into our work as artists and you're like, no, no, I see the writing on the wall and everybody's

trying to say that that's not what it is. It is really interesting because you see that decades of friendship between them and you just going like, I don't know what this ding-dong's doing, but the two of you are both being stupid and you need to figure it out. What an episode for Lucas Scott. Just at the crux of every drama, the Dan stuff, the Lindsay stuff, the baby stuff. Yeah. Haley and Nathan trying to figure out what you do. Yeah. Yeah. He was at everything.

It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like

Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We've touched on a lot, but Dan in the graveyard putting the bigger headstone. With the mega-sized headstone. But the photo. I mean, all of it. All of it was just... It's so good! His face on his headstone is wild.

I was like, okay. That's not cheap, y'all. That's expensive. He really spent money on that headstone. But guys, did we do that for real? Like, did we have a headstone made, or was that thing made out of a foam board? That was styrofoam, surely. Must have been.

Waited. It had to be weighted. It didn't look like styrofoam. I mean, it had a sheen. It looked heavy, and it was on an actual crane. I hope it's insane. someone's yard somewhere you guys just like in a warehouse is dan scott's tombstone someone should open up a one tree hill coffee shop in wilmington and get a hold of these props and you could have like the

headstone that you go sit at the table with the headstone in it or maybe it's in the garden in the back somewhere that you can go you know what i mean it'd be so fun to see these props out it would be really cool i know someone who is like a headstone engraver like that's their family business and they have samples at the stone yard of like these are what these things look like and i'm just hoping whatever company facilitated that prop still has it as the sample in their yard so that grieving families come through and they're like is that paul johansen the photo killed me we just thought you could use a little joy in this very hard time this is a moment of levity for you if you were a fan of the c w in the early oz come have a giggle would you like a photo you know what was it

interesting to me too about that is the scene felt serious. Paul is really in this serious introspective energy as an actor, as Dan. He cannot accept that he can't have another chance. It's all very beautifully played. It's really emotive. The voiceover is really emotional. you know, this man talking about how, you know, once he dies and he's reunited with his brother, his world would be whole again. And then his smiling face, I was like, is this supposed to make me feel emotional or is this supposed to be funny? I'm having two separate experiences at the same time. This feels like a moment in the production office when somebody said, get a photo of Dan for the headstone. I think that's the only one we had.

And literally, whatever closest photo it was, it was like, here's a photo of Dan. And somebody just did it. I bet you anything, they walked into set that day and was like, it's the one from the car dealership shoot. Oh, my God. It was the car dealership. It's the Dan Scott Motors photo from the billboards. Guys, can you imagine putting like your LinkedIn photo on your headstone? I mean, it is kind of very Dan, isn't it though?

Yeah. Even in, because he's such a vampire, even in spite of all of the, all of the things that he says that he wants, it's really still just all about him and the performative things. It's not, he's not, again, I wrote this down because when he was talking to Nathan, I need this, I need this piece before I die. It was like, another thing you need. You need. Not showing up like, what can I do for you before I go? What, what can I, how can I facilitate? What can I, I need this. He's such a vampire. God.

The script on the headstone struck me. What was it? Because it's like a standard phrase, like all the time. It said, loving husband, brother, and father. And being a goth kid, I've spent a lot of time in graveyards. And what I noticed was that it was a loving father, not a beloved father, husband, son. That is only something you would have noticed. He could love everybody all day long.

but no one loves them back. And that's really the message that keeps getting reiterated over and over and over again. It should say, if you've lived your life correctly, should say beloved person. And Dan's just not there. Ooh!

That is keen. Buddy. But then Jamie's asking for him. That's the other, you know, we don't have necessarily love triangles because the Lindsay Peyton Lucas one is kind of weird. The Keep the Lovers Apart storyline that we used to have in the high school years is Jamie and Dan. Yeah.

Haley has that line. What are we going to do about Jamie and Dan? And the way that it moves into friendships, like even Joy, when you go to see Hill and you're supposed to be recording. And by the way, sidebar, the entire set of Red Bedroom Records is brick and ivory. You're both wearing brick and ivory tops. was like, are we, I literally made a note of it. I was like, I was like, everyone's in red and white, and the studio's red and white. And it looks like a Christmas movie.

It's a white stripes music video. It honestly was so wild. People just, like, go back and look at it and make me giggle. The two of you facing off on the same color shirts with like the walls matching. I was like that you noticed that. Yeah, it was like, it was like, um, when you see those things in architectural digest of like very hoity tooty east coast homes and they have the like red and white wallpaper with the ladies and dresses.

and then it's like on the bed spreads and you're just like, who sleeps there? Anyway, who sleeps in this room? I don't understand. But I loved that they gave you guys a way in to talk about it because of Peyton's story. Being an adopted kid, asking about how she felt about her father, really trying to go to the one person you know who has any version of this experience as an adult. adult who can look back in hindsight and maybe offer you lessons for your own young child. I just thought it was so nice.

And it gave us a window into Peyton that we hadn't really seen before with the way she talks about her dad. And then for you to be able to share what was happening with Dan and Jamie, it's not dissimilar to what we were doing in high school when we would talk to each other and be like, well, what are you going to do about that? And I don't know. It felt nostalgic and fresh at the same time. I thought it was a really cool scene.

Yeah, all the stakes got really heightened when Dan said I'm dying. Because it's, you know, it's easy to, it's easy to be mad at him for plenty of reasons. But when you know you actually may only have a finite amount of time left with someone, how much does that impact the decision that you've made about the place that they hold in your life? And that's, I like watching everybody wrestle with it with the real deal of like, okay, honestly, last chance, possibly. Last chance. If he's not lying and if a dog doesn't eat his heart in the hospital. I love that process of everyone going through like not buying it.

Right. Because that's the gut reaction. It's like, okay. Tell me more, Dan. You know. Yeah. But also, okay, just back to the Jamie and Dan thing, he writes this beautiful card to his grandpa, and Haley throws it in the garbage, I mean, you know, painfully throws it in the garbage, but also I'm like, as a mom, I thought out a couple of things that Maria was like, save that. I drew that. I drew that. You know, and I'm like, you've drawn 125 other things that I have of yours. You really don't need this stick figure. And I throw it up, but you don't throw it out in the top of the garbage? The top of the garbage the kid's going to open? No, you got to bury it.

You crumple it, you wrap it in a paper towel, you bury it in the trash. Come on. Rookie move. Rookie. George had a fit yesterday because she had made these little action figures out of paper, like drew them and cut them out and shit. They're just like all over my kitchen counters, and I'm trying to make dinner. So I neatly clipped them together and put them on the refrigerator,

and that's not where they live. Oh, no. Where do they live? They're supposed to live all over the counter. She freaked out. Yeah, you can't, you can't outwit a five-year-old. I feel like this is going to come back to bite Haley in the ass. I feel like in the next episode he's opening up the garbage, right?

Agreed. Yeah. It was too convenient, even the way that they shot it with you putting it in the trash. I was like, we're presenting this to the camera. We're presenting a disaster waiting to happen here. How would he ever trust his mom again? Dan, move, Haley. Way to not value your child's wishes.

Dang. I mean, at least, like, keep it for a minute. Stick it in the car or, like, put it in the attic. He took all that time to write it. Man. Well, speaking of kids, this storyline with Brooke and the baby, baby Angie, is just so beautiful. I loved such soft. Like, I've, so when I was watching you in the doctor's office, it felt so realistic to watch, like, a 20, 21-year-old young girl just, like, scared. Just so scared of what this actually is and what it means and feeling the weight of all that. Yeah. I thought that was great. You know, I think it would have been really easy to be, try and be more mature, Brooke about it, but being able to see Brooke in a place of that the little girl that she didn't really get a chance to be. And now she's just scared and she needs her friend and she cares about this baby. It's so sweet.

Yeah. It does feel nice looking back at it. to see a kid who doesn't know much about this. You know, the LOL for me was like, obviously since we've shot this, like I've literally played a heart surgeon. I'm like, yeah, I was like, and we're going to start to talk about the heart lung machine.

And then he was like, and there's a thing called the heart lung machine. I was like, there we go. I was like giggling to myself while I was watching the thing. And, you know, I've spent the last three months, like continually investigating and reinvestigating my own heart, like figuring out what my sort of post-viral complications were from from the thing that we all got

so sick with in London and I like I literally have like marks all over my chest and my rib cage from where the last set of electrodes got pulled off after a CT scan I had because apparently I'm allergic to the adhesive I look insane oh no yeah and

and I was like it looks like I've been burned all over myself with like the biggest cigar you've ever seen and I was like God I was like this is pretty wild to like like, I don't know, look back from this vantage point, having done it for work and going through it personally in my own life. And then going back and I'm like, oh, I love that we didn't try to make her look like she knew anything. I love that we didn't put Brooke in the space where she was like, I've read everything and I know that it's this. I like, I like that she just got to be scared

and say, is there any other way? Are there any other options? You know, You know, it felt nice to just let her be a kid. Yeah. Well, but she also really was handling things when she went into the boardroom, which I liked that we were, it was so interesting to watch the exploration of that because it's just so different now, I think. I mean, I hope it's different in a lot of spaces for women. But watching the, you know, she's just walking into a boardroom with a baby. to me that feels so much more acceptable now than it did back then that the scene felt very on point for the early odds

but the idea of women just not being allowed to be women but then also this juxtaposition of okay it's your personal and professional life there's a line but where is the line and how do we when is it appropriate to let them merge and when is it not and I loved how at the end it all just she was like look you hold the baby I'm going to tell you about it she just took control the whole situation and went fully forward, like fully into 2023. It's like, let me just tell you all how this is going to go.

Yeah. She was definitely blazing trails. I loved it. She pulled them in, is the thing. It's like when people exist on the outside, it's really easy for them to be like, oh, yuck. But by putting that baby in the grumpy lady's lap, all of a sudden, now she's responsible for this meeting going well as well.

And there's, like, she has a vested interest in it. Like, well, I don't want to be the one to make this baby. I remember taking, like, I had Gus two years after this episode. And I remember taking him with me to, like, auditions and producer meetings because I didn't have any other option. And I remember horrified reactions. Like, there were casting directors that were just like, what is this? I was like, it's a baby. Have you ever seen one before?

Yeah, he'll be fine. He's totally fine. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose. and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How did those go, by the way? Like, were those, was it, did they get over it or were they still like, were they still all feeling weird about it by the time you left? It's looked at, it was looked at as a demerit, right? So whether people said it out loud or not or rude to you, not. It was a demerit because it meant, oh, well, this actress is actually going to have to find child care. And we're going to have to get a nanny ticket if we hire her. You know, there's

just like certain things that become, it's a complication for the production. And what's cool now is that like there's enough women in positions of power where it's like, oh, no, here's our production office and that's actually the child care room where we have a nanny that takes care of everyone's kid. Yeah. You know, that's what we have here in the Hudson Valley that Mary Stewart Masterson built. You know, when you have women in positions of power, the structure is handled beforehand so that things like kids are not a problem. Well, and what's so interesting to me is when you look at, when you zoom out and you see the way that things get better for us when women are in charge, and when women are in powerful positions, they get better for everybody.

Because think about how many kids we got to watch grow up in the nine years we did our show, and how many of the men on our crew would bring their sons and daughters into work. And I just think about, you know, like Kathy and Mike Raill and us all getting to babysit their daughter, Ava. And I think about like, well, if Kathy had to travel for work, what would it be? been like for Mike to have had a room like that on set so that he could have brought the baby into work. Like it isn't just the moms who get dinged and looked down on and people go, we're going to have to deal with her kids. It's like the dads also have to suffer it a little

more silently. Yeah. And it's just not good for families in general. And this business is so, the hours are notoriously long in this business. So it should be such a no-brainer that if you want to work in this, either you want to work in this business, don't have a family or a personal life, or work in this business and help facilitate so that the people who work for you are happy because they have a home and a family life and their kids are happy because you're providing a space. Well, and it's any business, too, like people who work in the restaurant industry, never get to go to their kids soccer games because it's dinner time, you know? Like, there's a version of it in every industry where if your profession is,

helping you take care of your kids. Like if that company that Brooke was going to meet with had the daycare room in their building, Brooke got to drop Angie off. Right? And it would have just been standard procedure. Yeah. And so, yeah, the more chicks at the top of the pyramid,

the easier that's going to be for everyone. But baby Angie was a star in this meeting. That baby is so cute. So cute. like just delicious she's just you just want to squeeze her she's like a little pilsberry dough boy oh i love that baby when you think about this idea of if more women were in power in a way what brook is doing is changing the narrative of that experience you talk about hillary a young woman saying no you're not going to ding me because of my kid you're actually

going to do better because i have a kid your business is going to better benefit because we're going to build a whole universe around kids like this one. And I just, I love it. It was, that's big energy even now. And it's like, that is like some big feminist energy for 2008. I'm here for it. Yes. I love it.

Look, if Haley had it at work, we would have avoided the entire nanny-carry situation. See? It's like, go stalkers. Crazy. So was it hard to, do you remember, was it hard to get the baby to smile at the end in that last scene? No. What was actually wild is we, it was hard to have her not smiling. Oh, good. You know, by now I'd been hanging out with her for so long. She was like my little buddy. And so we would, we would film her and I would like do the bare minimum. And I would look away.

I wouldn't make eye contact with her. So she'd be staring waiting for me to look at her. So we'd have to capture a lot. And, and if she'd smile. smile, we'd have to wait and then let her get a little bored. So it's a really interesting thing, you know, no matter what you need a kid to do, they're just doing what they want to do. You can't look at an infant and be like, stop smiling. Don't smile. Wait, was it twins?

I thought it was twins playing baby Angie. I don't think so. I'm Googling it right now. I think Angie was just one baby. But maybe I think there was. I mean, with Jenny, we went through, like, so many different babies. Yeah, I feel like for a time they got another baby, but as they were growing, like, one of the Angie's was really chunky and delicious, and one of them was like a cute, she was growth spurting, so she got skinnier. And then it was like, this is the working.

They don't look like the same baby. You know, we've got baby Jenny at the conventions. I would love to see grown up Angie. Yes. I would love that. I wonder what she's doing. That's probably how Brooke Davis is feeling right now. Yeah, right?

Where's baby Angie? But I'd love to know where she is, sweet little girl. I loved that baby. It is also really interesting to have baby energy on the show because we are in this sweet season with Jackson where he's, you know, he's been with us for almost a year. He's growing into himself. He's getting so comfortable as an actor.

I mean, the way he delivered that whole bit with you, Joy, where Jamie's reading his birthday. They card to Grandpa Dahl from memory. Killed me. Like, he is so present and so sweet, and you can give him any direction at this point, and he'll do it. You know, do this one sad. Let's laugh while we do this, whatever it might be.

And then, yeah, you've got this movie that you're like, how do we get her to stop smiling? I just can't. Jackson was having so much fun. And him and James had gotten such, had built such a great relationship by then, too, that they were, not that it was ever not. It was just, you know, we all, it just takes time. It got deeper, yeah. Yeah, it gets deeper.

And so it always felt like they had their own fun little games going on. James was so interactive with him all the time. And it really did start, it was starting to really feel like a family with a little idiosyncrasies and stuff. And Nathan really grew up in this episode to me. I felt like he was so much more grown up than I had seen him in a while. Just the way that he was handling everything with Dan, really internally processing where Lucas was having his outbursts, not in a petulant way, but he was externalizing his frustration.

But Nathan seemed to be really processing things. He was giving Quentin advice, taking on that older brother, fatherly figure role. He was, when Dan did keep pushing buttons, that was his only outburst. But then he was thoughtful and came back to him and had a very decisive conversation with him. I love that. I'm like, I am a man now, and this is how I'm going to handle this situation. It wasn't reactive. It wasn't the way a young man, a young impetuous boy handles things.

It was a man. Mm-hmm. The manliness was maybe that totally awesome black leather varsity jacket he was wearing. How great was that? I loved that. Guys, I don't typically, like, zoom in on wardrobe, but that jacket for whatever reason made him look in charge and hand. Yeah, I was grown up. Good look.

You had some good wardrobe, too. That Angels and Airwaves shirt, by the way. No pants. No pants, man. Here's the thing. I like this episode. I liked this episode. We had so much repetitive information,

and I still liked the episode, because it just felt like home. Yeah. I remember shooting this episode. I specifically remember shooting that scene, because any time they make us wear, like, less clothing. I don't know. It just like sticks in my brain. Yeah. But I, I remember kind of having my feelings heard it, how quickly Lucas got out of that

apartment. I was like, hey, man, I started having no pants on. Why are you trying to be so respectful? Thought you liked me. Yeah. Yeah, he really did scoot out of there with a quickness. It's like, cool. Got to go. Maybe what I liked about this is Peyton was just here to serve other people's storylines this episode. And sometimes that feels nice as an actor, where it's like, hey, we're all playing a team sport. Like Peyton sits down with Brooke and has the conversation about like, I'm here to help you with Angie, by the way. Yeah.

And it gives Brooke an opportunity to explain like what's going on. And then she's with Haley. Yeah. And it's like, let's talk about dads, right? Let's just get this out in the open. And then she goes and has this conversation with Lindsay, which is so funny to me. Wait, I wrote this down. Walking into Lindsay's office, we suddenly went from Wondry Hill.

to dynasty, because the two of you looked so jaw-droppingly gorgeous, the lighting, the way your shots so different. No, I'm telling you, your bone structure was all like, Michaela should always wear violet silk shirts. Like, everything was just so beautiful. I was in. Dude, we were dressed in the same colors and we looked so much alike that it feels like. There's like a freaky version of this where we. find out that we're related since Biden's adopted. It's like the parent trap grown up. It's so wild.

And I made a note about the lighting too. I was like, God, Peter Kowalski with these clothes is just killing it. But you guys in this sort of gentle face off looking so similar and you're just mirroring the same truth to each other. You're like, he said yes to you. And she's like, it's not me who has to make a decision. It's you. And she gives you the book.

And you're both trying to, to, like, throw the hot potato at the other. I was like, this is wild. Is that the name of the episode? The hot potato? It has to be. Oh, Lucas, you hot potato. Lucas Scott is a hot potato. She did.

She was like, have you even read the book? I love that she called you out on it. Yeah. Well, no. It's like, hello? I never thought to ask. I don't know. It's nice as an actor when you know that you're seeing.

partner has to deliver a whole bunch of shit and you're just supposed to like tee up the ball right and then let let them go with it and maybe that's why I like this episode because it's also real life though that's that's yeah it's real life it's the comfort of ordinary everyday life and I like our episodes that are like that sometimes we have a lot of drama on the show and we have a lot of the exposition stuff but the episodes that really just live in tree hill and just live in our daily life in Tree Hill, those feel comfortable. That feels like putting on an old sweater. And this episode, I mean, there was so much in this. Like I'm looking through my notes and my God, they're so long. But there were things that happened in this that I just thought, God, more of

that when Quentin goes to see skills in the basketball office and apologizes for his behavior and skills gives him the sort of inside scoop and talks about how, as their coaches, as their mentors, they look at the big picture and at what's best for these kids. And he says to Quinn, you have to trust us. We'll do whatever it takes to get you where you want to be. In all caps, I was like, that is a good teacher. Yes.

It's that sort of mentorship that watching Antoine play that with Robbie made me feel so emotional and nostalgic for the teachers who shaped my life. And I don't know, I was like, God, I want to watch this movie. I want to watch Antoine be the basketball coach and, you know, Nathan come in and help the one kid on the team. I just, their whole storyline and all the conversations that these men and boys were having with each other. even the way that in that gorgeous sunrise scene on the river Oh my guy wrote that down too

Lodging. And the way they talked and their vulnerability and the kind of clashing of male ego with like the vulnerable reality of injury and mortality. And Quentin needing a parent figure or like a mentor figure.

Yes. And it was so beautiful. And then when he comes back around in the gym at the end and apologizes and also says if I'm going to do this, you have to do it with me. And they have this, you know, don't call it a comeback. I was like, oh, my God, I love her show.

So good. But that also was indicative to me. You know, Quinn's had so many outbursts. And it's like, this is a kid that needs a mentor. This is a kid that needs a mentor. What I saw in this episode is that he has a strong influence at home. Because that child, on his own, went and apologized to a grown-up. Amen.

That's right. And went to thank someone, but he didn't have to. Yeah, absolutely. And so what that meant to me is like, oh, there is someone at home who has laid some groundwork for him. Yeah, that's right. He just needs somebody to back it up in this school environment. Yeah. I loved seeing a teenage boy do that.

Modeling, that was great. Yeah. I do. You know what? It made me think, though, I wish that we had spent a little more time getting to know the other younger basketball. players to feel like I was invested in that storyline more because when I was watching skills in Antoine, I mean, sorry, skills in Lucas, do the coaching and just talking, talking them up and

pumping them up, it felt like I care about our, I care about our boys, I care about skills and Lucas, but I didn't care about the moment because I don't know who these younger kids are that they're so invested in. Well, we cared about Nathan and Lucas showing up in high school because we knew that it was the only way for skills to go to college, right? Like, we knew what the stakes were for other kids on the team. And if Quentin doesn't play, we don't know what the stakes are for any of these other kids. And they probably have the same, you know, issues that we had. Yeah.

God knows we've only been out of high school for, what, five years, six years. Four. For 22? Yeah, only four. Yeesh. Yeesh. Let's talk about the Dan manipulative stuff because there were so many triggers

for me in this episode. When Dan says, I just wrote in all capital letters, so manipulative. When Dan comes and tells Nathan that he tried to kill himself, which is, that's a threat, right? It's like, hey, I tried to kill myself.

Yeah. Saying that to your child, come on. And the whole speech about like, and it was a sign that I wasn't finished. So now it's like, Nathan, don't get in the way of this sign that I was given by my suicide attempt. This is Providence. The gods have designed it this way. Don't get in the way. You know, you mentioned the whole like I, I need to fix it.

Yeah. This is a me thing. But then the scene on the basketball court where Dan sees him and is like, don't be upset. Don't be mad. I'm proud of your accomplishments. I don't want you to live a life of regret. It's just all of this messaging that the love is accomplishment based and I have to get your game back in order to have closure with you. Like, why can't I have closure with you if you're not playing basketball?

Mm-hmm. And, oh, the whole thing was very triggering. Yes. It was so hard to watch. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Dan, in his manipulative way, trying to be gentle, but essentially demanding that Nathan returned to sport, really felt to me like this man panicking that he wouldn't have a legacy. You know, if my son isn't playing. What's my legacy? And I was like, ugh.

So much pressure that you can put on your kids. And it's just, I was watching this video the other day that this woman made talking, because I think it's relevant, you know, whether you have kids or not, but talking about the differences between carpenter parents and gardener parents. And they're like these two philosophies of parenting, which I think can apply to the ways we have to reparent ourselves, right? Like when we're doing our grown-up work. And the idea that Gardner parents are there to, like,

sow the seeds and nurture and let their kids grow into whomever they're going to be, and carpenter parents want to build you in an exact image. And, like, cut and shape and saw and hammer and make sure that the kid becomes their ideal version of a person. And I was like, Goddance, Scott's a fucking carpenter. I was just so mad at him. He's masonry, man. He's setting bricks and mortar. So intense.

A mason parent. He still looks great, though. Which is a bum out. Want to be mad at it? Okay. I also need to talk about someone who looks great. Goth Haley in this episode with the super dark hair. Oh, the dark hair.

Goth Haley is doing it for me. I don't know when your hair got that dark, but I love it. I don't know either. Did we have a break? Did we, why is it all of a sudden the next episode is so dark? But it did. It looked good. I liked my hair in the same.

episode. Yeah. It makes your eyes pop. I feel like we finally figured out what the color was supposed to be. I'm glad y'all liked your hair. Mine, I hate so much that I can't even like focus on what I'm doing. I'm just like, who let me have that haircut? Who I was not good.

That's how I feel about all of season two if it makes you go wrong at more. Yeah. You didn't have a power mullet. Yeah. Oh, yeah. Honestly, I love a power mullet. I mean, I'm not mad at it. Accidental mullets.

Yeah, there's a fine line between a mullet and a shag. Fine line. Cross that. I don't mind the haircut. But I know what it feels like to not like what will live on the internet forever. And so I hate this for you. You know who's got great hair, though? Millie.

Oh. Yes. Let's do this. This is a high note. High note, for sure. And like, when's the episode for me? Just the way that she holds herself, she's got all this new character development happening. She's so fun and chill and she just keeps things simple and low drama.

She's supportive. But she does, she's not a pushover and she knows what she wants. I just love her, man. She's dynamic on screen. And what I like is that I can, when she says a line, I can see it on the paper, right? And I can see how I would fuck it up. right she has she has a line where she uh she's reading the teleprompter yeah and she gets to i love you Marvin and the way i i couldn't have done it if my life depended on it and she delivers it so simply

and so believably like i believe every single thing she says she's a marvelous actress and again i just don't know how we fit so much into this episode all of mouth sweet scenes and him getting bolstered by his new boss, you know, being given a shot because he's seen his tape. And then I loved the way that they shot Millie and I in the store being like, oh, yeah, guy, he's on TV. And then being like, oh, this is very bad. That was so great. This is very bad. And her going to him, I felt so, I was really struck when Lisa started repeating to Lee the whole bit about what he told her that

first time at the station and why he loves sports and what it means for the underdog. I was like that's also why I love sports. There were so many things in this episode that made me cry and I don't know watching them is just so fun and you're right Joy it's like

it's like pure it's just purely good and it's so refreshing on a show with as much drama as ours to just have some people that are like good and kind and happy. I love seeing Mouth get what he let go of. He walked away from that job in order to build a relationship with this woman.

And look, it came right back to him in a different form. But oh, I love that. William H. Brown wrote this one, right? Yeah. Even the line to get into the Mouth storyline, where that boss walks in and it's like, do you have a voodoo doll? Yeah. What a great line.

I just love a left field line that feels natural. Like normal people talk. Yeah. Yeah. Doug that and there was a point when Lee was like nervous and he makes this face and oh my God, it was his son. Oh, yeah. When we hung out with them over the summer and George and Lee's. son were jumping on the bed and got caught and his son was like rut row like that face of uh oh

to see it on lee and it'd be like oh my god you guys are twins twins it was so cute to see the little boy in mouth because he's always been trying to be like the cool guy he's always trying to seem older you know and to see him just be so small and young and scared i couldn't believe he choked I really thought he was going to do so great. I completely forgot what happened. I did too. That was painful. Yeah, it was.

And by the way, I forgot what happened and I shot scenes reacting to him choking. And I was like, oh, my God, because I'm so used to him being so good at it. And it was such a, I thought that was such a nice choice, you know, per the writers to give him something he needed to overcome and to be able to give Millie that runway to go and support him. Like, just watching them is so fun. Here's something interesting that made me think about Millie. Because she's watching her talk to mouth and hold that supportive space, she does the same thing with Brooke. It's a real gift of hers to be able to be fully present in a room, in a stressful situation, to not freak out, to be able to support the people that need support. And she doesn't have a desire to be in charge.

of things. She's really comfortable in her personal gift of holding space that she does. And it made me think about how often I think in culture, especially as women, well, I guess actually, I'm sure it's for men too. This thing that we're told about climbing a ladder, like you want to keep moving up, keep going into the next position higher and higher and higher. And so many people, I think, find themselves in jobs and positions where they're like, I don't want to be a man. I'm not good at managing people. I boss lady too hard. Yeah, you know, or whatever the role is.

Like, what happened to just finding a space that you're really good at and just being the best at that? And I see that in Millie. Yeah. So if you got a jump, hey, what was your honorable mention before you leave? Honestly, it's hard because part of me thinks it's the mouth and Millie dynamic. but also for me, like, that scene with Nathan and Q on the river court, the who said it was going to be easy. That, it's like that line kind of feels like the honorable mention to me.

I don't know. I'm all over the place. I loved it. I'm too email about this episode to pick. Good episode. Listen, your handsome heart doctor. I thought that's what you were going to say. I was not going on a date with this guy.

I thought for sure Brooke was going to kiss that guy. Yeah. I was like, this was a great setup, especially when he asks who Lucas is and he says, just a friend. I was like, oh, here we go. And then nothing. Robbed again. We don't know.

We don't know. You're right. She hasn't had surgery. Yeah, we'll see. They get coffee. All right. You go. We're going to wrap this up.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Love you. My honorable mention was Millie, but I have to say, as she said, the river court, I mean, just the river court, like looking at it that way. the reminder of how we started, what that river court is,

what it means, what it looks like, and then hearing Gavin's voice come in, it was some really smart tie-ins to just remind us of where we are and why this place is so important. My honorable mention is AIM, instant messenger.

Listen, I got so nostalgic when Lucas is on his little laptop at the end and you had, remember a buddy list? Yes. And you can see people on there who were actively avoiding you. You can see that they were on there, just not wanting to talk. So awkward. We've built our whole society now around avoiding awkwardness so that nobody has to ever feel awkward with each other. You know, I hit that private button on every app I have, on every whatever. I'm like, can't read this text message. Can't do it. The fact that people have read or on their text messages so that I can see when they've read my message, why would you? I would never. It's always off. Why would I want you to know that I've read it? And now I'm just actively avoiding you.

I'm way too ADD for that. No way. And like, and the fact, the fact that Lucas sends her the message request or the video chat request. Yeah. And instead of just ignoring it and closing her laptop, she actually hits the decline button. Yeah. Instead of just Lindsay is unavailable, it's declined. Yeah, she could have left her laptop open.

and went to a different room. Man, she's sending a strong message. Well, she's sure. I mean, she sure is sure, which sucks. It's so weird for Peyton because she is such a consolation prize. No way. He's really going for it with Lindsay, and it's only when he's getting this firm no that he's like,

all right, fine. You're saying you feel like Peyton would, feels currently like she would be a consolation prize if he were to choose her. Absolutely. If the dude that you loved is pining after this chick, all he wants in the world is this chick. You've gone to talk to this chick. You know, Peyton reads the book at the end of the episode. But what's she going to do?

Go to Lucas and be like, so I read the book. And I see what everyone's saying that. It's me. No, I mean, I see why Peyton feels that way and why that would be true of the situation currently, but I don't see that as the truth at all about who Peyton is. But also, their relationship in the long haul, it just means that Lucas is not, he can't see it. And she shouldn't be in a relationship with somebody who doesn't see how amazing she is. So it's like, I'm not going to get together with you while I'm a consolation prize.

I'm going to wait. I'm going to wait until you actually understand. I literally have no idea how this is going to work. I don't either. I have no recollection of what Peyton's going to do. No, not with this information. She said they're crying, reading that manuscript. I'm like, how do you...

Having written a book, it's very personal, and you don't give advanced copies out to people until it's like, you know, check, check, check, check. Everything's good. And I don't know how you naturally bring up in conversation. so I got on a flight and spoke to your ex who left you because I caused so many problems and she still doesn't want to get together with you but she let me read the book and apparently you love me like I don't know I don't think that works yeah I don't know what's

going to happen what is the move I think you just live with it you just have the information you can't tell him you read it she's just going to get on aim because apparently Lucas is there just trolling for somebody. No, she's going to go find something better to do with her time. That's what, that's what Peyton always does. She's so good at that. She's like, no. Busy.

Let's spin a wheel. Yeah. This week, we are asking who is most likely to get brought up on stage at a concert. Well, we know who it is in real life. Yeah, you hold that trophy. Oh, yeah. In the show, who would be brought up on stage? I mean, Peyton?

No, Peyton's already backstage. She's not going to be in the crowd. I just, what I'm picturing is like, Peyton watching a band that she's serious about and really, like, not, she's not a groupie, but like, one of the players in the band really noticing her and thinking, that girl is amazing. How do I get in touch with her? I'm going to try and bring her up on stage. But actually, she wouldn't go, would she? No, she wouldn't. Peyton missed all of that hookup with dudes and bands time.

You know what I mean? That's such like a vital stage in a 20-something's life. At least it was for me. And I'm sad that she missed it because it could have been awesome. Well, who would it be in real life? It would be someone so fun. Bevan. That's it.

It's like it's the girl who's in the front who knows. knows every single word, and they're like, we got to get this dim, you know, thing dong up here. Bevan. It's Fun Girl energy. Yeah. It is Bevan. She just went to some, like, some, like, super cool concert that Casey Musgraves put on for, like, 10 people. I just saw her when I was in Wilmington.

She's like, I just got back from hanging out. And I'm like, of course you did. Because you're fun. Damn. So fun. All right. Well, you guys are the fun girls. That is our most likely, too.

What do we have next week? Next week. Season 5 episode 17, hate is safer than love. So true. So wise. Ain't that a truth? Well, folks, thanks for joining us. We liked this one.

Yeah, I liked this one. Good music, good stories, good writing, good acting, good stuff. Thanks for joining us. Good hair. All right. Love you guys. Bye. Bye.

Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at drama queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dramatic for the right team.

Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Thank you. It may look different, but Native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic.

shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.