Drama Queens - And the Award Goes to… • EP409

Episode Date: January 9, 2023

Peyton is smiling again and so are Hilarie, Joy and Sophia. As they watch back this episode they see perfection… Could this be the best episode yet? As they discuss how it came to be, they question how it didn’t amount to more. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. one tree hill baby that's how i feel when i saw this episode what tree hell rocks um what was that what was the name of that sports announcer that used to talk like that dick fatale vital what was his name yeah i think so the guy to like yogi bad sports it's sports it's sports baby sports ball um guys welcome to season four episode nine some you give away whew wow there was a lot that we gave away this episode This was beautifully done. Tell him the arch, Sophia.

What happened this week? Okay, okay. Well, this episode originally aired November 29th, 2006, in case you were curious. As Whitey's last game approaches the residents of Tree Hill feel the pressure of a looming state championship, Peyton reveals to Lucas she has feelings for him, and Haley learns the sex of her baby. Nathan and Lucas clash over personal and team goals and Karen. shows Deb tough love while Dan tries to strike a bargain

with Dante. This one was really good. This might be my favorite episode so far unless I'm forgetting about another one that I loved. But I loved this. It was so sharp. Everything was right on. And I said it when we were hanging out

watching. This episode is just as good as any of those Grey's Anatomy episodes that won Emmys. It's just as good as any of those great high-profile network TV shows, I just thought it was so, so on point. You know what it is? It's anything that is geared towards teenage girls is totally devalued. Like this- 100%. It's like, oh, it's for teenage girls? Oh, that makes it bubble gum. That makes it soft. Ew. Yeah. That's not, that's not quality. And fuck you. Yeah, it is. This is a great episode of television. It is my favorite episode. Anytime, like, fans ask us at a convention.

what you love. I start saying this one. It's this one. I'm going to start to say this one. Yeah. Kew, where's our Emmy? This was great. Is that the title?

Kew, where's our Emmy? It was funny, it was sad. It was funny, sad. Funny, sad. It's a perfect combo. You know what I liked, too? There was a really cool kind of bookend. You really see how far all these characters have come.

and they're so rooted in what is currently happening in their worlds. Everyone's getting a little more vulnerable. It feels like an opening this whole episode for some reason. It's the beginning of the end. Yes, and it's bookended with these references to the beginning. You know, Lucas says to Nathan, we're going to battle. And he references that first Rivercourt game. And at the end, you actually see the first.

flashback of Lucas and Peyton to the River Court game. I loved that. And it's like the whole episode feels like it's carrying our whole series thus far inside of it. Oh, I just loved it. That's a great way to put it. It's all like in the bottle. We've built the little ship inside the bottle. It's this confetti snow globe, state championship episode. Yeah. I loved all those shots of all the confetti. You know what I really liked? I loved the mislead at the beginning when you find out later

that Whitey's playing the tape from the radio announcement of his game 18 years ago. Of Dan Scott's game. How good was that? Yes. Because we felt it. We felt the disappointment

of the entire town, you know? Yeah. And to see everyone crying, that was kind of the mastery of our show where you would get the mislead, And then see, like, oh, my God, everything's okay. And you would forget all the trauma that you witnessed earlier. And then when it falls into your lap again at the end, it's just like, oh, how did I get tricked twice?

Not once, but twice. Yes. I was feeling so good for a moment. That was largely due to Greg Prane, she was the director of this episode and just did a fabulous job visually taking us on that journey. There was nothing that felt awkward or clunky to me. the whole thing just flowed like a nice little stream of story. Yeah, and everyone had

so much going on. Yeah. It's so refreshing when every single character has a great storyline. None of it was lazy. None of it. In the last episode, we knew that there was that really weird turn for Brooke to be like,

maybe I made a mistake with Lucas just so that Peyton and Lucas could have their moment at the end of the episode. Yeah. Like in this episode, everyone's moments make sense. No one is doing something just to get us over the bridge. Everyone's really on a journey.

And, oh, I just, I'm like, I'm tickled, guys. I'm tickled by this episode. How is this only episode nine? Like, I legit thought this was going to be the season four, you know, finale or... It feels like a finale. It's only episode nine. Yeah, I mean, this isn't even a mid-season break. I wonder if we were taking a break for something.

This must be our Christmas break. Well, because this aired right at the end of November, but I'm wondering if maybe on our night, like was there some Christmas special happening on the CW or something that was going to take us off the air early? So they made episode nine feel like a mid-season finale, you know? Well, I think our season always got cut up in two. It was like it would start in September or end of August, September,

and then air right up until the holidays. But then our shows never aired during Christmas and New Year's because everyone was like busy. And they were like, we're not going to waste episodes if no one's going to watch live. That was the only way to watch back then. Yeah, they would always do reruns over the holiday break. But I guess I'm just trying to figure out why this feels like the,

you know, second week of December episode. And then you go off for three weeks. But this is the end of November. So I'm just wondering if in 06, like the network had stuff going on, you know, like, um, like when the Olympics are on, your show's just not on. Oh, yes. Yeah.

That makes sense. They're airing like shot put or whatever. Oh, God. Sports. Okay, wait, I have a question from the beginning. So the scene where we left off in the previous episode, Peyton says, I love you, Luke, I love you. And then we come back and he's just telling it to skills.

We don't, I was upset. I didn't get to see that. that scene. I was hoping for like a flashback. No, we did. It showed it. We did. And he says, oh. He says, oh. Yeah. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Girl, and it's good, too. Because he played it really. It's so awkward. It was so awkward. I made a note. I was like, why did I get to see that scene? It's because my wife I knocked out and I had to like try and catch up. Oh, yeah. Okay. No, he, we definitely see it. Because Peyton's like, no, I love you. Like, I'm in love with you. Clarifies it. I don't just love you, but I am in love with you. And I've been whole. holding this back a really long time. And he says, oh. And I have just dealt with this situation

in real life because my son's best friend at school is a girl. And her mother called me and was like, hey, so my daughter just is having a rough time. And she just really needed to gust to know, like, how special he is to her and was like telling him, like, you have been the one person who's consistently there for me. And I really appreciate you so much. and like thank you so much and she poured her heart out to him and my son said cool and like walked away and i was like no he legitimately meant it like he meant that was cool yeah and also we're done here yeah um and i guess this episode must have been in the back of my mind because i explained it to her like yeah that's how boys talk they say one word and they're like and they mean it they say

They say what they mean, and they mean what they say. Yeah. Oh, okay. Oh. Oh. I loved it. Boys don't know. They don't know.

And poor Lucas. I mean, come on. Like, he's just getting pulled in every which direction. I remember having a best friend in high school. And he was like, all the girls were all over him. He was totally a Lucas Scott type. Jock, soccer jock, but also like into, he was sensitive and kind of poet. And he was a, you know, he was like in church youth group.

and, like, good guy. And so he had girls falling all over him. And, yeah, I remember that feeling of, like, ugh, can everybody just leave me? Like, can't I just be a normal teenage boy and, like, have sports? Can I just, like, play sports? Can you guys stop wanting me now? Can you please stop sharing your feelings? I can't deal with your feelings about me.

Rough. I can't live up to your feelings. So I kind of, I get it. I get why Luke was like, oh, okay. I mean, have you had someone say, I love you? and you're just like, yeah. Yeah.

And I've said it and had that reaction too. Like, ooh. Oh. Yeah. It's a rough. Works both ways. For sure. You know what I liked?

I liked that Skills put it in perspective for Lucas when Lucas is going, you know, I don't know. Because he is, he's doing that thing. And Skills is basically like, grow up, dude. You chose this. He says you've chosen to be. there for Peyton. Peyton has just been in those situations. You keep choosing to be there to rescue her. Yeah, you keep showing up. And I thought that that's such a good friend to say, yeah, I get that you're doing the thing where you're acting like this isn't a big deal to you,

but I'm your best friend and I see you and you're clearly in love with this person. So what are you going to do about it? Yeah. I loved the frankness of it. And I just, I so appreciate the kind of friendships where people go, nah, I'm not going to let you make excuses. I see what's going to on here. You're lying. For me, the turn with Lucas, like, happens too fast. Like, it has been years of being, like, we're friends, we're friends or friends. And over the course of, like, an afternoon to an evening, he's like, it's you, Peyton. Okay, fine. Like, fine. I pick you. For me, that was a little, like, jarring. But I also, like, to play devil's advocate, I'm like, in my own head remembering times where my girlfriends would be like, you should

like so and so. And I would just be like, okay, I like so and so now. Oh, 100%. I had that once years ago with one of my, like, best guy friends. We're homies, like in the most serious way. And every single person in our lives was like, you two are perfect for each other. Oh, my God. You too, you two, you two, you two. And I remember we were like all on a trip.

And we finally both just lost it. And we were like, what the fuck is going on? Like, we were, like, emotional and crying and talking about it. And he was like, I love you so much, but I do not want to be with you. And I was like, well, I don't want to be with you either. But why is everyone telling us you should be together? Yeah. And he was like, I don't know.

It's weird, right? And I was like, yeah, it's super fucking weird. And, like, literally the next day we sat some of our friends down because a group of us was away for somebody's birthday. And we were like, guys. No way. We get why you want us to date. We don't have it.

We just don't have it. So stop it. It's fucking creepy. And it's weird. and you're making our friendship weird. And all of our friends were like, it just feels like it would. And we were like, stop!

And everybody was like, all right, fine. And truly like... This is the anti-romantic comedy. The anti-romantic comedy. We laugh about it to this day. Like, one of my best friends on Earth who, like, talking about it stressed us out. We were both like, no, we can't even...

I don't want to kiss you. You don't want to... No, no, no, no, no. And it's like, oh, man, I remember thinking about it laughing actually the weekend of my wedding because him and his girlfriend were there and we were just like, see, we've always been siblings.

And nobody else got it, but we got it 10 years ago. I'm so proud of us. Yeah. Why is everybody making it weird, man? I don't know, man. So there's all these weird, there's so many ways relationships can go.

And like, I do think the influence of friends, sometimes people see something before you do. You know, you've got your wall up. You're not ready to be vulnerable. Yeah. And it feels like that, especially when you think about it in the context of high school, it's almost like because they've screwed up early,

Peyton and Lucas have both been really trying to absolve themselves of... Everybody's a martyr. Well, you know, it's like they're trying to absolve themselves of the way they betrayed their friend and their partner, respectively. And I think at least as a viewer, it feels like, especially for him, he got so obsessed with being like, I'm not that guy. I'm not that guy. I'm not that guy. And he needed some people to be like, yeah, well, you're not that guy anymore, but you are in love with her. Yeah. Just because you

had all that, you went through all that doesn't mean you're not still in love with her. Yeah. It's so sweet that moment. I love that. The kiss is sweet. Like, it is a fast turn, and I do, I do get it. Man, Peyton worked for that, man. Girl, work. I wish they had, like, drawn it out. Like, they could have drawn it out a little bit more throughout the, you know, when he's playing. He could have looked over at you a few times. There could have been some kind of maybe he's having flashbacks at the two of you guys while he's playing, or just some kind of something to give us the indication that he's remembering and feeling all the feels. Oh, man. It was fun. I mean, I don't think it's a secret that I'm a competitive person.

And like, storyline-wise, it felt good to win because Payton has been like, second fiddle and like dumped by literally everyone like i got the guy nathan's a great guy now cool story he was a dick with me you know like jake jigsky dumped me pete wends was a weirdo you know like and then my you know payton's been dumped like so much this felt like a good a good win and for what it's worth like chad and i behind the scenes like would squabble early on in our series, I was, everyone knows, I was, like, mean to Chad. I was really rough on him, and I'd, like, poke the bear

and be like, oh, what are you going to do about it? Because I'm an antagonistic person. And as we get into season four, we had fallen into a rapport that was, I think he really always wanted to show up for me because he knew that I would call him out if he didn't. And so our scenes together, Chad's a great scene partner for me, you know?

Like, he would cry on my coverage. He would show up and, like, really want to make me happy. And so this is the beginning of that era for my character. And so whereas last week when we watched the episode and I was like, ugh, yuck, I watched this week's episode. And there's a feeling of like, oh, I'm going to get to do some stuff where I actually, like, had fun at work. Like, we would have fun, you know. Peyton smiling again. It is.

It's so nice. It's so nice to see her smiling and I think especially to find some joy, you know, after a series of traumatic episodes for her. And when there's still this distance with Peyton and Brooke, you know, we talked about this either last week or the week before that they've been best friends since like preschool. Yeah. That's painful. And I love that there's that energy like they can't give up on each other, even when they're mad. Even when they say mean shit to each other in the car, in the quiet at the hospital, they can't help but be there for each other. They're sisters.

Yeah, they are. And I think the glimmers of that are so refreshing, but knowing that it isn't completely repaired, it's just so nice to see her winning somewhere. It's nice to see her getting some joy. Yeah. It's the holding hands. It's the... That moment. Like, each one of them wants the other one to win, but knows it's at a personal cost.

It's like, God, I'm mad at you. I'm so mad at you. I still want you to win, but if you win, that means I lose. And they're both, like, feeling that. I know we've got this big fight coming up, and I just can't even imagine how we get there after this. Because this was, like, tender. Well, it's so tender. And what I really didn't like, and I protested about it a lot at the time, I really, really hate that the writers kept making Brooke take swipes at Peyton about her mom.

Yeah, that was dark. It's just, it's so ugly. And I do remember, I don't remember a ton about how we get into the fight on the front lawn, but I do know, I remember that being the core of it. Because when you started crying in that dialogue, saying, like, you made fun of my mom's death. Like, I started crying. And I remember the director being like, you're not supposed to be crying right now. And I was like, this is really sad. Sad for both of us.

Yeah. I hate this. So I know they're leading up to that. And I don't know. I personally hate it. But I... It's a device again. It's Brooke having to do a device.

Yeah. And it's a step too. far but what i what i will say is this sort of moment of relief you know for me is when we're sitting in that hallway Peyton you know brook asking the question what did he say she's just like i know this idiot screwed it up because my friend is sad i can't help but asking and Peyton tells her you know oh and they have they share when you go the step farther to say you You know, he said it was you. Like I told him he doesn't want me.

He said it was you. I think I almost felt like I could see something like a weight lift off Brooke's shoulders because the two people she loves the most have betrayed her. So now betrayal is her core wound. And I understand that viscerally. Like betrayal for me is a nuclear emotion. I will show up for just about anything. If you're in a bind, if you need to be bailed out,

of jail. Like, whatever it is, I'm there. But if you lie to me, like, I don't know how to get over that. Yeah. And I, you know, it's a thing I've worked on for close to 20 years. And the, like, root for betrayal is, like, white hot to me. And I felt like, and maybe I was having a more personal experience than a character one watching that scene. But when you said it, it's like, I felt like I saw the weight lift off her shoulders a little bit because suddenly it's, no, you're not hearing me. Like, it's not about me. And then she lets it go.

It's like once she knows she's not being betrayed anymore, it's healing. And in the end, when Brooke looks at Lucas and says, go, it's okay. It's like she's absolved or free. Yeah, it's like Peyton just wants her to tell her the truth no matter what. Like, I'll tell you the truth when it's bad. I'll tell you the truth when I think that you'll think It's good. Like, Luke is picking you. I'm telling you the truth. That should be a good thing for you. That's what you wanted, right? You know, it's like, it's following it up. It's consistency. I'm going to tell you the truth no matter what. Even out of personal power. And I love that. And I think I think what's cool about the truth that you tell in that scene is that for Brooke, it's not about Lucas picking her. For Brooke, it's about, oh, you haven't betrayed me again. This has been really hard. But, oh,

the thing I thought was happening isn't happening. So you're not lying. And that's where the healing's possible. Yeah. She stayed consistent in her desire to really see her friend. Payton stayed consistent in her desire to see her friend close out that journey on her own place. Without Peyton's interference, she just was respectful enough to step back and let that happen in spite of everything she was feeling, which is the mark of such a good friend. And I think you guys have both been such good friends to each other throughout this series. It's like you're constantly taking turns, holding the weight. So it was nice to see that all resolve, finally. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage,

Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like very traditional. It feels like, Rob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive,

while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, I like your anti-friend behavior in this episode because you give Rachel so much. Every scene with you two ends, with you be like, I hate your face. Also, you're the worst. It's so great because Haley's like the sweetie pie. Not with Rachel.

Yeah, it's like, well, that's the same kind of thing. Like, once you tried to sleep with my husband, I'm sorry. I have no like second, there's no second wind. There's no like, no, hard pass. Yeah, I'll do the right thing for the principle of the matter because that's who Haley is, right? The principle of the matter is do the right thing. So you do it. it's not because I like you or I want to or I'm feeling particularly generous or forgiving.

No, no. No, I just want to win. I'm here to win. I'm a better person with you forever. Also, though, like this whole, like the health part of Haley's pregnancy, you know, like the fear in your first pregnancy is a great storyline, you know? Yeah. How did you feel about all that stuff? Like, did you talk to Moira and Barbara?

Like, did anyone walk you through what happens to your body in pregnancy? No. No, nobody did. And I, well, I don't know that I really asked. I mean, I think I did some, I looked some things up and did some research. But, um, no, I think maybe I was like too, I wanted to seem like I had it all together. I wanted to seem like I knew it. I could do it on my own.

So I think I didn't ask for help a lot then. But I did do some research and read some pregnancy books and just kind of tried to gather it. But it's still no comparison to actually going through it. So I didn't know what I was. I mean, I was like, okay, I've seen this happen a hundred times on TV. I guess if I'm having cramps, I'll be on the floor and I would be. I think maybe they had a medical advisor on the set.

Now that I'm talking, I feel like I'm having. a memory resurface where there was someone on set who was telling me what I would be what I would look like, how my body would be hunched over, what part of my stomach I would be touching. I mean, it all seems really self-explanatory, but I don't know. I was like 20. I mean, not for Peyton. Guys, I'm so embarrassed about that scene where you're on the floor in the bathroom. This is so funny. I feel like the way it was shot, we didn't actually see. We were just told like, okay, camera's going to be here. We have to fit the camera crew into this little bathroom. So, Joy's not actually going to be here. So here's the tennis ball. I was probably also

like off getting my hair makeup done or something. Like they hadn't called me to set because they were like, here's the X on the floor. Just, just look at that. Look at this X on the floor. And that's Haley and she's in pain. And all the girls are like, oh no. And Peyton's like, I see a demon. Like my eyes are bulging out of my head. Like in my mind, Haley's hemorrhaging, you know? Yeah, there's blood everywhere. It's awful. I was in a different movie in that scene, you guys.

That was a different. That is so funny. You did. You had horror movie face. Yeah. And the rest of us had like nerves. It's got nerves. So much PTSD from all the dumb shit that's happened in the last month.

She was like, more trauma. Oh, no. I can't do it. I can't do it. No more. But it got us into the hospital, which was one of our favorite scenes. It did. That was fun.

Oh, my gosh. You guys killed that. It's one of the best memes on the internet. Are you kidding me? Bitch, slut, whore, thank you. Thank you. Bevin, love it. It is so funny.

Yeah. And I like that we bickered in the car, you know, like there was a divisiveness amongst us. And that experience is, I think, a really easy thing to relate to where it's like, oh, it's bad. Look, I'm mad at you, but circle the wagons, girls. Yeah. Back to the best. of one tree hill like that was all the way back to the beginning all of us piled into a car and it reminds me of season one it's just so fun it really is and they gave bevin great comic relief in this episode like

you know rachel suggesting the role playing and you going after rachel and then brook and peyton going after each other and then bevin with the one liner from the third row it's just so good we didn't even know there was a third row in the car yeah until she showed up i was like oh the car keeps going And then the same vibe with, you know, all of us getting mad at that intake nurse and, and her saying, thank you. They really had found this hilarious, like, button niche for her that was really great. I'm Rachel and I have red hair. Did you guys? I had like a weird feeling watching that scene with how mean that nurse was about Haley.

because it rung about this before but that's exactly what our boss used to say about the cheerleaders like oh the cheerleaders were never nice to me they were too good for me and I was like wait are we doing the same thing we did in the last episode even the doctor who was like go wait in the lobby

and cheer for something so on the nose man you got a comment on it the counselor who says the rude thing to Rachel about being a pretty girl who can flirt her way through life and then these adults saying that they never liked cheerleaders and I don't know it all just felt diggy.

It felt yeah, it felt really pointed in a way. Even the, I'm so sick of this comment about chicken legs because, and it started because I don't, I mean, I don't know specifically the reason, but I do know that some time around here Hillary had gained the reputation as having the best legs in the business, which she does. us. Well, yeah. If you have not taken a look at Hillary Burton's legs, you really should because they're really incredible. They're unbelievable. Yeah. And they were. It was like, so we would always talk about it. It was like freely in our conversation all the time. If you were around, you look amazing, best legs in the business. And I think it was irritating to our boss and then

started like putting in a little dig because he just couldn't manage to let us have anything positive. He found out that my dad called me chicken. That was my nickname growing up. Like, that's what my dad called me. And it had nothing to do with my legs. But our boss had to make it a dig. And so this thing, this thing that was sweet for me got turned into something gross. The same thing with clean teens.

This thing that was like a sweet memory with me and my friends got turned into something gross. And so this idea that I'd had that I was working on something collaborative where we would all share our experiences the way people do in a writer's room. I was a little dummy that thought like, oh, I'm getting to be a part of the writer's room by sharing personal experiences, but they just kept getting manipulated over and over again. And so now I don't do that. Now I'm just like, no, do your job. You make some shit out. I'm going to keep my things for me. I think that's a really interesting thing in general for us. Because we didn't have mentors, we didn't have anybody watching our back, we never had someone say, maybe don't give the writers all your stories.

We never had someone say, oh, if someone asks you a question in an interview that makes you uncomfortable, you can say next question. Yeah. Like no one ever did that for us. So we would always show up and be on the spot and give and give and answer and try to be professional and to your point, joy, try to really know and do the research and And we didn't have anybody helping us create boundaries because they wanted us to be without. Right.

Why would we give us the tools to take care of ourselves? Yeah. And like I didn't learn that until so many years after our show. And when you think about the first 10 years of your career being in an environment where you're sort of constantly pulled from, by the people who are supposed to teach you to be protected. Oh, God, I don't like that at all. But literally like, but yeah, it's true. It's very, it just is uncomfortable.

And I guess there's a version of it now. You know, I love the comedy of us in the hallway in our cheer uniforms. And I, I love the scene between you and I, but there's just like shit that as an adult I see in these scenes that I didn't, I didn't see then. And it, I don't know, man. Because when you're a kid, you're sharing your stories because it feels like family. You're all sitting around. It's like summer camp. Yeah, everybody's just sharing and it feels like, it feels like comfort.

And they're sharing stories back with you. And yeah, I mean, that's how it works. They manipulate, I say they. I'm having the people who turn things around and manipulate it. They do that by getting you really comfortable. Yeah. And then using everything against you. Yeah. I mean, that's how any cult leader, megalomaniac, works.

Well, the cult of tree. A mastermind, do you say? We definitely, you know, used our status with the fan base to get a ton of fans into that stadium. Like, this was an opportunity where rather than gather outside of Karen's Cafe and not be a part of the scene, we just threw the doors open. And we were like, literally, anybody that wants to come in here, meet us in Raleigh. Yeah. And like, do you guys remember that field trip hanging out on Raleigh? Because it was Halloween weekend, wasn't it?

Oh, that was Raleigh. It was like the weekend right before Raleigh. Oh, my God. I do. Right. And I remember, you know, we had a thousand extras in that giant stadium. Bananas. And even that looked like almost no people.

So we'd have to move the extras from one side of the stadium to the other side. So everybody had to have two changes of clothes. and then we had dummies that were like on the edges the inflatable people on the edges of frame that they kind of left in soft focus and all

it was amazing all those people really showed up to help and they brought so much energy like the cheering and the yelling and the pom-poms and the signs and I just couldn't stop laughing when we were watching the episode because I was like how did we afford to pay

a thousand extras and I was like oh Chili's paid for Chili's Kate people. Sweet Kelsey singing the baby back rib song. I was like, that's how we afforded a thousand extras. Yeah. Make the cute girl do it.

I love that. I totally forgot this was Raleigh. I remember that trip. I didn't, I don't think I stayed with you guys. I feel like I stayed in an Airbnb or something. We were in like a Hyatt or something like that. And there was definitely a hotel bar. And usually at chain hotel bars, it's all businessmen.

And so if you're just like the traveling salesman or the traveling executive that normally hanged down this bar and then the entirety of Tree Hill High School descends on your high at Regency bar with like one of our PAs Alex Oster pay had lost a bat that day and had to carry around an inflatable dummy the entire evening. And so just I remember like all the businessmen at the bar wanting to kiss our PA Lasseter like they were all super into her. But it was, it was, like, the carnival had come to town. We just made a scene. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of. hundreds of years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, we can bring an inflatable dummy out on the town, just so you can have... Next time, I want mediocre bad, mediocre cocktails at a hotel bar with a blow-up mannequin. That sounds like a really good time. to me. Honestly, you know who I bet would come out with us? Rick Fox. If we were like, dude,

Rick Fox. Like, dude, we have this idea and he'd be like, y'all are funny. I'm down. I really think you would. Paul would come. We could, we could like gather the troops. Can we talk about the fact that for the first time in four years on our show, Paul Johansson is acting opposite an actor who is taller than him. He's always been the biggest person in the room. And Dan has this stature and this imposing energy because Paul is so physically big. Yeah. And then at the state championship. So Dante and Bear come up to Dan and he looks like a normal size dude next to his box. And it, like, you can really see it change the energy in the scene for Paul. Yep. I've seen that in real life too. It's interesting when Paul's around somebody who's

taller than him. It's, it's very unusual. Because it's so uncommon. Yeah. I think it's just a, it's, he just gets a little uncomfortable. I think he doesn't quite know what to do with himself. Well, you know, I thought, I really started to think about it watching because everybody's taller than us. Yeah. Yeah. For the most part, you know, I think about the number of times. You know, the number of times we'd have to do scenes with the boys and stand on Apple boxes so that the camera could keep us all in frame in the tighter shots. And I really wonder what it would be like to walk around for your whole life being so big. And then suddenly to encounter someone bigger than you, it must really be shocking.

Like, you know when like a big dog kind of freaks out when it sees a kid? It's just like, what is that? You know, they're just like, what is the small thing? I don't understand. Exactly. Like he must just be like What is this? Who's bigger than me in this world?

How am I supposed to feel about this? Yeah, and it's something I literally cannot imagine. Yeah, that's true. It puts him in this really different space. We all made a comment When Dan is leaving the game at halftime Because it looks like they're going to lose And he can't stand to watch it

And he whips that car around and comes back Because he wants to be there for the good but also the fallout he knows is going to happen at some point. That was a great scene. Like, I loved that for Paul. Yeah. You know, this is the first time we've been seeing Dan take a turn for the good and hold on to it for as long as he is.

I don't know what that means necessarily because I'm still not sure quite where it's all going, but it definitely is the longest he's held on to the good side, remorse side. Yeah. Yeah. He feels, he does feel like a new person. And I'm really enjoying watching Paul play this version of Dan. Yes. It's a relief. It is a relief. And I realized how much of a relief it was in that scene at the end when, you know, Dan says to Karen, go home and I'll spend time, I'll lock up and, you know, clean up with our son. And, And Dan and Lucas are having that moment.

And it's so nice. I was almost scared to admit how nice it felt. And then when Lucas brings up Keith, you go, there it is. And I thought it was really well played. Yeah. That was jarring for me because I'm just so conditioned to think, like, Dan's telling Karen to go home because he's going to hide something in the store or have an interaction with somebody that's threatening.

And there wasn't an angle. It was just to keep him there in protection of the kids. Yeah, that was really unsettling. And guys, like, the idea that Nathan finds out he's going to have a son in the same episode that Paul is connecting with his other son, it's like when we get the information that we've got this response. responsibility. How does it change our decision-making processes? Yes. I loved the scene where you told him, it's a boy. I loved that too. It changed everything because it was no longer just, yeah, I'm going to have a baby. It's this, you know, thing. And I'm so overwhelmed in the pressure. And I've just got to do this for the money. It's like it personalized for him.

This is your future. What kind of message do you want to send to your son who's probably going to play basketball one day, you know? Yeah. Especially because we heard the old broadcast. It's like if we're sitting here hearing the Dan Scott broadcast of the game that he let his team lose. And Nathan has to like listen to that. And he's heard about it his whole life.

And it's made Dan a nasty person. The idea that like, oh, God, am I going to repeat this generational trauma? Yes. I'd rather have my knee broken. And Whitey says it. He says, it will stay with you. Yeah. And then it goes to Dan.

And all of the energy of that old broadcast, it's such a good device, that announcer, being our narrator in this episode, even when we are driving back from the hospital and the announcer in Dan Scott's game is talking about the Ravens coming apart at the seams, it's tragic. They've been through all these things together, thick and thin, and look at them now, you know tearing at each other and that's about us yeah yeah yeah and the boys are fighting and and you see it and you realize how tenuous these relationships are and and it's really special in that scene with haley and nathan to see it all hit him and to see him realize he can either be a version of his father or he can be who he wants to be he can set the example he wants to

set those are the moments in life those are the moments in life when you get faced with a decision that will impact the rest of your future in some major way. And it's like really hard, how difficult that must have been for him. But I love that it was also so easy. Like, no, I'm just going to do the right thing. That's the right thing to do. I loved the rivercourt boy scheming. I loved the Lucas and skills. Just like, we're going to freeze them out. It was so like, I don't know. You're right, Sophia. It brings. brings us back to the pilot. The whole series, to this point, is in this bottle.

And that rivalry, although, you know, has been kind of fixed, it's always going to be there a little bit. It's always going to be a rich kid forever. Yeah. We're not going to let that kid win. I don't know what Whitey said in the locker room. He said, the rest of your life is a long time. And if you lose, you lose, but don't lose this way.

Yes. It's so great. It's beautiful because, and then he references it even on the court. He says, it's a moral victory. Yeah. You know, the way you've played as a team in the second half. Yeah. And then, you know, you get the competitive nature.

I don't know if that's enough for you. Get out there. It's great, because that's real. But I love the lessons in it. And I love this four. whitey because it is the beginning of the end we're not we're not going to watch him coach another high school basketball team or game that's it you know he he stays in our lives as the show goes on but not in the same way and so it felt like we're really honoring send off the fact that he got

that lifetime achievement award at the episode before at the banquet and now letting him have this final win to set him off into the next phase of his life. I'm so glad that they took the time to do that and to honor. The elderly community is so disregarded and so ignored, especially in a TV show about teenagers. Yeah. I thought it set such a great example. I loved that. Yeah. There's an element to it that kind of stung because, like, you know, when we do conventions and people will talk about, like, the post-convention blues or, like, any kind of, like, post-event blues, like when you wrap a movie or you finish a good book or whatever. The morning after prom.

It, because you spend so much time looking forward to it. And then it's why so many people, like, cry after their wedding. They're just like, wait, I've been working on this for like a year. I know, what do I do now? Now I just have to be with you. And that Whitey's sitting all by himself really affected me because it was like everyone's off celebrating and he's beginning that process of just dissecting it from his life. It's like this is the first hour that it's not my identity. and tomorrow will be the first full day

that it's not my identity and the day after that you're cutting a limb off it's so much of your being. Oh my gosh, that makes me want to cry, Hillary. That's such a beautiful way of putting that. That's like how I felt, you know? It's, yeah, he's losing

a vital part of himself. And I mean, we see Whitey a little bit in the future, but not really. No, it's not the same. Yeah. It's not enough. for sure. Yeah. Because we were class of 2000, so many of my teachers retired right after we graduated. Like, they'd opened up my school in the late 70s. And so they're like, 2000 sounds like an even number.

Like, we're out. And I remember just that kind of like morning of like, but then how am I going to find you? Like if we don't have this thing, this building or this, you know, place to go where I know you've always been there. I've always been able to go up to your classroom. Like, what are you talking about? It, yeah, I don't know. I just really affected me. I'm still friends with all my teachers, guys. I'm such a dork for teachers.

Yeah. And I hate it when they stop teaching. I know. It's like I think about the teachers that are still in my life who made such an impact. And, yeah, like, transformational human beings. and I don't know it it's interesting to think about the you know the nostalgia of that the importance of place and then isn't it weird like in this moment to think like when you zoom out and you think about the fact that so many teachers are being told that they can't mentor their kids that they can't talk to their kids about their families that they can't even talk to kids about our actual history anymore.

Yeah, I mean, they have to follow a core curriculum now. Can you imagine Whitey trying to follow a core curriculum? That's what I love about him. Well, like, how do you help foster the longevity of the teachers like Whitey? Yeah. You know, how do you help support the people? They're so few and far between those kinds of teachers. See, I don't know.

I had so many of them. I had so many. Yeah, me too. I mean, my teachers were really. Lifeers. The kinds of teachers who will, like, actually know about what's going on in all their students' lives and really sit and talk with them about things. And I don't know.

I don't know that there's a lot of those. My school was, like, I think because all the teachers had already been together for 30 years, they knew our parents, they knew our older siblings, they knew our cousins, they knew our enemies, they knew our ex-boyfriends. Like, they literally knew every single thing about us. You know, that is my kids' school, my daughter's school does have their, it's a tight-knit group, and I do love those teachers, and I love that they, there's so much emphasis on personal responsibility and, you know, just being good to each other and being kind, like, yes, they have a curriculum, they need to follow. Yes, there are some things on the checklist that need to be taught, but to be nurtured in a school is, I think, unusual these days. So it's always nice to see that.

And we love our teachers. We love you guys. Well, how about you're a teacher and you're listening to our show? We love you. We love you. Except for calculus teachers. Just kidding.

I love it. My calculus teacher was so cute. So yeah. What's with the whammy? What's with the fucking grade whammy? I don't know. That was so weird. And I mean, I could see how in Rachel's world

she thought she was doing Brooke a big favor. But it's like such a waste of time where Brooke could be. Like Brooke could have gone and gotten tutors. But now she can't and she has to cheat. And does the counselor really think that Rachel's failing? Like, I'm so confused by that whole bit. Yeah. It's all very, it's a strange Mr. Act for sure.

When Haley was going over that math question with Rachel, with the balloon, the fucking balloon. I zoned out. I started sweating. This is what Maria brought home a question last night. It was like, what's more? 50 liters or 15 gallons. And I was like, well, I don't know. Where's the key? So she gives me the key.

And the key is not just direct translation from liters to gallons. It's liter to cubic centimeters. And so then you have to guess how you have to figure out how many cubic centimeters are in a gallon and then figure out how many cubic centimeters are in the leader. And then double, like, multiply that for the leader to get to that. And I just couldn't. I looked at her. I was like, I love you so much. I'm so sorry.

I wish that I can help you with this. I really do not understand what this says to me. You're like, I'm going to find someone on the internet who can help. She'll be here on Tuesdays at 4. That's right. Couldn't do it. Couldn't dare it if my life depended on it. That's how Haley and I are very different.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con

or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I love so much, but where we live, landed was bad.

Oh, the end of the episode. Yeah. God, that was so intense. Okay, so do we really think that Nathan actually killed Dante? No, no. No. But I think Dan was so desperate to do penance for murdering Keith that it was like just pouring out of him. Yeah.

In some subconscious way, like, oh, good, a dead guy that I can take responsibility for so that I can actually pay off my debt. I mean, the idea that he punched the asphalt has always bothered me because, like, any crime scene tech is going to be like, that's your blood. None of your blood is on his face. None of his blood is on your hand. And you've got chunks of blacktop in your knuckles.

Yeah, why didn't he just punch him? He was dead already. What difference is in me? Yeah, he should have just punched him two times and been done with it and been like, I did this 17 times. Whoops! Yeah. But God, it's dark. Also, who was the stunt woman who took that hit? That was horrific. That was horrific. That was horrific. Yeah. I don't remember. Oh, my God. I did not like that at all. I wish I did. I wish I remembered her name. And the rolling over the car and the rolling on the ground. It was a lot. That was very scary. Did they let you know that like you were going to be okay? Or did you get that script and you were just like, am I dead? Like, because they did that to. a lot of people on our show like sneak attack deaths yeah i don't think they did tell me but i

probably just assumed because i because of the baby and stuff well yeah but also i had a contract i mean unless they were just going to pay me out for the next like three years and you know half half a season i don't know i don't think it occurred to me that they would kill me off at that point i was too integrated into the show i think earlier on season one season two was a little iffy yeah but but yeah no um i i remember uh getting crutches for this though in the next episode of the episode after and i remember really liking being in hospital scenes because i just had to lay there and sleep half of tree hill is in the hospital right now like oh my god they are yeah Yeah, well, Haley getting hit.

Luke is having a heart attack because he didn't take his meds. Jeez. Dante's dead. I mean, it is just like, it's a lot. Debs and rehab? Yeah. Karen smuggled Debs and rehab. What a good, that's a good misdirect.

Because at one point, do you guys remember we were watching the episode? I was like, why are they still driving? Everyone else is at the game. And then I went, oh. It's an hour and 40 minute drive. It's not that big of a deal. So many misdirect. Yeah.

She's going out to Asheville. But again, in that whole gorgeous montage at the end of the episode where you watch Dan stepping in as a killer, where Haley's in the hospital, you know, rolling in, Lucas is rolling in, Nathan's crying, and that announcer, the game, all of that, all of that beautiful, you know, sports chat that that was written just to fit, it was so well done. It was a device I really liked. Sometimes the devices are shitty, and this device was so good. I loved it.

I loved it. Do we have fan questions? We've got some questions, guys. Oh, I like this. From Vanessa. She asks, if One Tree Hill was cast now as you being the mothers on the show, who would you play? Deb, Karen, Victoria, Lydia, Ellie. That's fine.

Uh, man. I mean, I'm Ellie. I would love Deb or Ellie. Yeah. I mean, Victoria is so fun too. Yeah, I would play Victoria. I don't have the moxie for Victoria. I'm so...

You don't? No, I'm so intimidated by Daphne because she's just so, like... She's so razor sharp. And I'm so slouchy and, like, awkward, and I make dumb faces. I couldn't... You're an actress. But I couldn't.

do it. I'm what I'm saying. I got limits. I can't do this thing. She does the thing. I loved it. Yeah. She's got a different set of tools. You two can do that, though. You two can go, like, razor sharp. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's fun. I think that's the funest, the funnest. I think it's the most fun thing about acting. Like, find all the places that you can't comfortably sit in real life. Do that. How interesting. Is this like a conradian? Is this like a Interesting way to spend the day. It's like, I feel like my sun sign is Ellie, but like my moon sign is Karen. Like, oh, okay.

Yeah, I was going to say that the character that feels the most obvious for me to play is Victoria, but I think I would have had a lot of fun playing Karen. Yeah. That's a good question. Valerie wants to know when young Keith is haunting Dan, he's always wearing the same outfit. That's true. Ghosts tend to not change clothes. I think you sort of, yeah. If you had to choose one of your outfits from the show as a ghost outfit for your character, which would you pick?

What a fun question. I love this. This is a great question. Okay, the last episode, I was in like a camel tan shirt with red lips and that long braid. I think that would be my ghost outfit. Wow. I'm super into it. Oh, I love that.

You know what popped into my head, which feels so random. There was a really cute episode. I think it was in, I don't know if it was season eight or nine. When Brooke and Julian are having this like incredible date day, they like go out on all these little adventures. And I had this really cute gray, like square neck striped dress with an A-line skirt. And I just remember, there's like a scene where we get on a Vespa. And I just remember feeling like so cute in that dress. And so much of what I had to wear on the show was uncomfortable.

And I loved that dress. So that I, it's kind of surprising. I guess it would be that. Also, I am just going to go ahead and caveat that by saying, seeing us all in our full cheerleading uniforms with the pants under the skirts and the hospital is so funny. And I would love for the group of us to be like March of the Penguins and like be a cheer haunting. Cheer haunting. I'm just going to say it.

Tell me to write that movie right now. A cheer hunting. So in the last episode, we didn't talk about it on the podcast, but our wardrobe stylist, like, quit after that episode. Like, we had worn him out. And fine. You know, wasn't the right fit. And you're being very polite, Hillary. I'm being super polite.

We didn't get along. And it was the best thing that ever happened to us because we got Carol Cuttschall. to come in and be our stylist. And what you'll see from like this episode out is we look cute. And all of season five, Carol had me in basically like nightgowns with a vest. Like I wore a slip in a vest every episode. That did become your uniform. It still is.

I'm still doing it. Yeah, I know. I love it. Yeah. The slip in a vest. That's the vibe. outside of cheer haunt. Cheer haunt.

That's a great question, Valerie. Thank you. Well, I loved this episode. I loved... It was perfect. The light spots and the dark spots. There are so many memes on the internet from this episode. It was so much anticipation, so much stress and joy and ups and downs.

And I thought it had everything. It had everything you want from One Tree Hill when you tune in from start to finish. We want to spin a wheel? What are we most likely to do this week? Yeah, we do. We're most likely to win the state championship, am I wrong? Hey, hey. What do we got?

Oh, who is most likely to have watched One Tree Hill weekly when it aired? Chad. No, I don't think so. You think? No. I thought he was going to say Antoine. I thought, oh, yeah, Antoine. You're 100% right.

I was going to say because Chad was always, like, working on his act. He was always working on acting. So I feel like he would watch it back a lot because he would want to, like, dissect and study and figure out, like, what was good and what wasn't and how to make it improve it for next time. He was also just on set so much. Like, I feel like we were all on set so much. Who was ever home? Yeah, but you're right.

It's Antoine. Because Antoine watches it as a fan. Antoine's like, I didn't read the script. I read my lines. Exactly. This is crazy. Yeah. Yeah.

I didn't know that was happening. Haley got hit by a car. That was always the best when he would come to work and be like, yo, did you see the episode last night? I can't believe. And we're like, bro, we had that script like six weeks ago. You know, I don't read those. You guys ended up together. That's crazy.

So funny. Which character from the show would be a teen drama fanatic and be like Evan? G. Oh, or. Bevin. Yeah, Gigi or Bevin. Yeah, Gigi or Bevin. Yeah, Gigi might have been watching sports. I think so. I think

it's Deb. I think she's just like pilled out in her bedroom like, I'm going to watch these kids. Remember the good old days? Like the darkness of like watching teenagers when you're a full ass adult. Just like these are my glory days. Oh my goodness.

Well, the next episode of Season 4, Episode 10, Songs to Love and Die By. Again, with the creepy titles. I can't wait to see what happens. Hope nobody dies. I think Rick Fox maybe does, but other than that, Dante. Oh, you guys, I loved this. Hey, congrats on the win, guys. We did it. We won. We'll see you guys next week. Next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH or email us at Dramaquins.com. See you next time.

We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be the smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.