Drama Queens - And, We’re Rolling • EP 709

Episode Date: September 16, 2024

It’s Sophia's directorial debut! She shares all the behind the scenes details that went into transitioning from actress to director. Then, we dive into the dark path Millie is heading down, the emotional journey of Brooke’s fertility struggles and the impact of its storyline.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

welcome in everybody hi pal so how are you doing i'm good it's been like a bit of a whirlwind of travel these last two weeks with the dnc and then um on tuesday for the other podcast i got to go do something very cool and do an interview at the white house it was really neat it was really really neat. And Easton came and we just were like, I also got to play tour guide and show him around everywhere and take him like into the press briefing room and stuff. It was really sweet. What a boss move being able to show someone around the White House. Kudos to you. Thank you. I know it's actually really funny. I was like, okay, so this hallway and these and the stairs here and that's where the bowling alley is and did you know that in the 60s and the girl who had like come to meet us from the office was like,

you know where everything is. I was like, oh, I'm really letting my nerdy freak flag fly, aren't I? Secret Service starts whispering about you. Maybe we put her on a list. Maybe we put her on a list. I was like, hey, guys. That's so funny. People are like, oh, I went, I got floor seats at a concert and you're like, oh, really?

I give tours of the White House. La Casablanca fools. I'm obsessed. Never have I called it La Casablanca, but I will from here on out. It's fun. Run with it, audience. If you like it. Run with it. It's yours.

Run with it. Where in the world are you right now? This is a new background. I am on the East Coast, and I am like literally hiding, speaking softly in my room because there are other meetings happening in the main room where I normally podcast with you guys. And so it's like it just happens to be one of those hours of the day where everybody needs quiet. Yeah. it's if you can see the setup of how all my technical gear is propped up like on pillows and there's

like a light stand with a blanket wrapped around it to hold it up and it's just elegance I feel you sister I am I'm currently in my house on jenny's sewing table my computer is propped up on a sewing box I mean it's just you know by hook or crook we're making it happen I like seeing all the fun like kid trampoline climbing wedges all the stuff back behind you I'm like oh yeah oh yeah I don't know what you mean by kid

that's my mini trampoline those are my fort building blocks that's my inflatable punchy guy no yeah it's um it's a kid's it's a kid's playground down here and dad dad gets in the mix yeah I love all right we got to talk about this episode because there is so much to unpack

there's a lot here about it's season seven episode nine. Now you lift your eyes to the sun. Air date November 9th, 2009. Synopsis reads, Haley returns to the stage and Brooke receives life-changing news. Meanwhile, Dan Scott returns to Tree Hill, much to the chagrin of Nathan, who is about to sign a new NBA contract with the help of his agent Clay, written by Karen Gist. I apologize if you pronounce a gist, Karen, directed by the incomparable, irreplaceable, Sophia Bush. Stop, you're sweet. Hey, what's your middle name?

Anna. Sophia Anna Bush. That rolls off the tongue well. It feels weird to me. I have no connection to my middle name at all. But it's all right. I'll take it. Is there anyone in the family?

Was that named after? It comes out of that whole like, I don't know. It's that whole Italian like Maria, Anna. There's all those sort of classic names in the lineage. And yeah, I don't know, some person. somewhere in the fam. All right. So what was it like watching this episode for you?

This was honestly such a trip because I just remember there are things that I had forgotten and there are things I remember in such detail. Like I remember sitting down and building out my director's binder with the overhead floor plans of all the sets and mapping out all the blocking and where people were going to be and why. and you know some of it works beautifully and some of it you have to change on the fly on the day um i remember us trying to figure out how to get out of one scene and peter koalski our dp was like oh well if we did this transition then we can fade into this transition with this other thing and

there's like you prepare and you over prepare for everything and then there's also just stuff you can't really know will happen weirdly the the two things i remember the most are sitting in the director's chair, directing and trick in that outfit from the Haley concert. And I remember what it felt like to shoot all those scenes to get into Brooks' whole fertility heartbreak journey. And then the other thing I remember the most is the stuff that you and me and Chantel did out at the beach that night. Because I really wanted to do this beautiful walk and talk with the two of you and have this moment out there where we could really see that you were out on on the sand alone and it was dark and it was beautiful.

And the complexity of doing that meant that everything had to be on a steady cam. We had to have, you know, someone from our electricians department holding a light on a stick and you guys following like a ball light down the sand. I mean, it was so silly to watch it, but it looked as beautiful as I wanted it to. And it felt so important to me. I remember all of us having these conversations about that. budding chemistry between Clay and Quinn and like how I wanted everyone to be able to feel it. And I wanted it to be awkward for Nathan to be sat between the two of you when you clearly so

badly want to kiss at the bar, but you hadn't yet in the whole thing. And I was like, oh my God, it all worked. And I just remember being so, so invested with you guys because you were our new characters and your relationship meant so much. And in feeling like I got to direct the episode where we got to see Clay and Quinn really begin and really take the leap. to admitting that they cared for each other, felt like such a big responsibility for me, not just because I wanted you guys to feel taken care of, but because you were the couple coming in to, you know, fulfill that sort of trifecta tent pull of Peyton and Lucas. And I don't know, it was so weird how invested in you guys I felt. And I completely forgot

that the episode for me revolved around the love triangle with Austin and Jana. I was like, Oh my God, this is the episode. And I directed those scenes you would think I would have remembered. Well, I think the stuff with Clay and Quinn, you totally, you stuck the landing. Aw. So did you guys, though. Well, thanks. Okay.

Yeah. I mean, it was a good team effort because I remember I was telling you all. Go team. Earlier in the season that there was the episode where I thought Clay and Quinn had hooked up that first night she goes home with him. And I was really disappointed and bummed out because I remember thinking, this is their origin story? That's what? You're like, why don't I remember this? What a bummer.

Yeah. And then, of course, I realized that wasn't the case. But this episode was great because I really felt like I saw them kind of falling into place with each other. And then the first kiss, I love that it almost happens in the dark room. It almost happens a couple times. Yes. And that scene on the beach is really, it's pretty magical. Mm-hmm.

Like it came across that it was a. it was a special moment because it's great. It needs to be something memorable. It needs to have, you know, some special quality to it because it's a big thing. You know, it's the beginning of these two. But I would say you captured it wonderfully. I really, I just remember how much fun it was. And I remember those conversations about that scene at the bar with you guys, you know,

with Clay Quinn and Nathan, the scene in the dark room, how it's like when you have that feeling that and it's getting so big it's like a balloon filling up you feel like it's going to burst out of you and i could feel that watching you too and i remember thinking like oh we're getting it it feels like it's building and building and building on set but you never know how something's going to translate on camera and you know there's even some funny things like the way we transitioned down into into y'all's feet on the beach we were transitioning into austin and janah's hands in the but like seconds get clipped here and there for time because you have to get your episode to 42 minutes

and I remember being like oh they were supposed to be like wrestling over the little drug vial and then like it just got to a close up of like Swarovsky crystals and I was like oh that was a bummer but it's the funny stuff that you know you might not notice as a viewer but that I remember even all these years later as a director and there was something so cool about having this experience You know, I'd really gotten to shadow the producers for so long at this point on our show, but no matter how ready you might feel to direct, it's also so scary. And it like, it lit up my love for our show again in a cool way. And it also helped me learn as an actor, oh, if this is a really important thing for us to open the scene on. I got to figure out how to talk over it. I got to figure out how to do something to where it can't.

get clipped in the editing room. And I learned those lessons in such a different way, getting behind the camera and seeing it. It's like that. I don't know if you ever did. Did you ever do commercials? I did one commercial. That's actually how I got my sag card in high school. Same. What was yours? It was a Kit Kat commercial. Oh, was that a national commercial? It sure was. It's how I, it's how I was able to get my sag card, pay my dues to get into the union. I bought my first car. It was like the coolest thing that ever happened to me. I couldn't believe it. That's fantastic. Mine was for a Ross commercial and they had already hired someone else for the role. But then at the callback, they had said, they felt bad for me because I had to drive in from

Claremont. So I was about an hour late. And they knew that. They thought, I will just let this guy audition. And I did the regular audition. And then I said, hey, for the callback, we just want to know, can you dance so bad you make us laugh? You were like, I was born ready for this. I just remember saying, just turn the music on. And I just freestyled bad dance for 45 seconds. And they were like, it was done. I got it in the room. But I say this because there's this thing you learn very quickly in commercials where,

especially if you're doing a food commercial or a product commercial, always be the person eating the food or holding the food because they can't cut you out. They can't cut around you. Genius. Right? I thought that was so smart. Genius. So like what you're saying.

It's like talk over what you can't, you can't lose. Yeah. Force their hand. Yeah. I really learned that lesson the hard way. Next season in season eight, I got to direct our Halloween episode. And my God, Peter Koalski and I designed the coolest opening ever. Because we were, I was told that they were going to forego some commercials and do like a presented by thing.

So I was going to get like the teaser was supposed to be twice as long as it was. And then, you know, probably some person who was. responsible for paying the bills on our show was like we're not doing that absolutely not and so this beautiful like action movie teaser that we directed for the Halloween episode of season eight got chopped up and it is actually like this thing I'm single-handedly the most embarrassed by that I've ever put out in the world because it just doesn't work in the way that it aired and so I think like I didn't even realize knowing we were going to watch this episode which my which was my directorial debut. I was so excited, but I was also like, oh, God, what terrible thing happened.

Like, I didn't even know as much in season seven as I knew in season eight. Like, I don't want to see the mistakes. And I was like, wait a second. This episode's actually pretty lit. I love it. It was great. Oh, that's such a bummer. Did that cut of that trailer ever see the light of day, or is it, is it alive online anywhere? No. Yeah, that's a bummer. It should have been on a DVD as an extra. That would have been so cool, actually. It would have been great. So last week, Joy and I did a Q&A, and it was funny because one of the questions, this person specifically asked, what is the deal with people wearing shoes inside their houses? And I cracked up because this episode, literally the first shot, is Julian asleep on your guys' couch with his shoes on that are on a throw pillow on the couch.

So not right. so not right and so I immediately laughed I got to bring this up to self because like literally someone just asked us why and I saw it going what the out you're gonna you're gonna bring in your outside germs

your feet and put them on your couch and throw pillows what he wasn't drunk he didn't pass out no well and then there's always like this idea right of oh well he he came in and flopped down at four in the morning and just passed out

and now look at him he's got his like you know, feet up on the couch and whatever, whatever. So I get the argument. I remember the argument for, like, selling how tired he was and how late he must have come in. But all I can think about, particularly as a person who's lived in and out of New York City for 20 years, is like, you just, you don't wear your shoes into your apartment in New York. Like, New York is dirty. It's the best place in the world, and it's also dirty. Yeah.

New York streets are gross. Sorry, New York. Your streets are gross. There's just like, you know, it's a lot of traffic, it's a lot of germs, and I'm just like, who, yeah, I don't know. It drives me crazy. Like I have the shoe cabinets by the front door. I'm like, no, shoes off the minute we get in the house. It's how you keep things clean. But then I also realize that like when I host parties at home in L.A., like when people come over, I never ask anyone to take their shoes off. And maybe that's because we drive more there. I don't know what it is. But yes, seeing Austin's shoes. on the couch sent me down like a full sanitary spiral where I was like pay attention pay attention stop thinking about like lysol and what laundry you need to do the one thing about the shoes off home because we are as well and we do tell our guests your shoes need to come off is if like we have a friend who they're a shoes off home but they have a dog that they take for walks and is in the

backyard with coop and stuff and so especially in New York. York, if you're walking your dog, it kind of defeats the purpose, right? Well, you got to have the little paw pad wipes. Yeah. You know? I just feel like how many people are doing those, you know? If you've ever put your dog in those booties, it's a show. Yeah, it's not great.

No. My sweet last dog, rest her precious soul, was just like the absolute best. She was so funny, Rob. I took her to Toronto to film with me in the middle of winter, and I put her in snow boots and she literally just went like this and like put one of her feet out and tried to shake it and then realize it wasn't going to come off and then like did the rear foot on the other I it's like the thing I single-handedly regret not having filmed the most because what I would give to watch the initial like dog in boot comedy it's it's it's perfection yeah we did the

same thing to our dog and but we did videotape it and it's the best because yeah it's that they're like they suddenly forget how to walk you know Yeah. They're perfect. I love it. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi.

Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Well, we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries.

This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yes, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, nobody got to have dogs on our show, which I still think is an absolute travesty. But I guess Jamie had the bunny. I will say, like, circling back.

I loved the way, and I remember filming that scene. I actually think the first scene I shot as a director was that whole sequence with Austin in the house, with Brooke and Julian. And I remember figuring out what the blocking was going to be like and coming to find him on the couch and having this whole conversation. And then, you know, when you're directing and acting,

it's like I had to block the scene with him and then I had to watch my stand-in act out the scene with Austin so I could really see it and then I had to make notes from Video Village watching the camera move and then turn to our executive producer Greg Prange

who served essentially as any actor director's directing buddy on set and go like okay I like this I want to make sure they avoid that and he'd go okay and then I'd have to walk in and do the scene and look at him and go did we get it? And there was no playback, there was no opportunity to watch it. I just had to

trust him. Oh, wow. Because there was no time. Like imagine if I'd had to be the actor and then watch every take. We never would have made any of our days. No. But it's so interesting to be so prepared and so excited and then to also have to kind of fly blind anytime you're on camera and just trust someone else to say, yeah, the shot looks great and then move on. Wow, that is a leap of face. But thankfully, it was, it was Greg, you know? So it's someone you have a long history with and you trust because, yeah, that's, that's scary not being able to sort of watch yourself and, you know. Yeah.

It feels very much like, it gives me that like mere cat energy, like where you pop up and it's like, did we do okay? You have no idea what's happening out in the world around you. But it was so much fun. And it was cool because we sort of isolated. um my scenes on camera as much as we could and there's something so special about the way everybody shows up because you are pulling double duty and i was even thinking about it you know nearing the end of the episode when brook calls julian and is like do whatever you have to do and she's having this whole experience where you know we're alluding to the fact that she's found out something

really terrible about her fertility and her options to be a mom and we hadn't quite said it yet but I remember doing that phone call and by then Austin was wrapped. You know, it's not like we shoot the phone calls with each other. It's usually you, the actor and the script supervisor, but like he stayed on set that day to do that scene with me. And I remember how cool it was then directing him and Jana in the hotel room in those beautiful scenes they did.

And holy shit, we have to talk about how amazing her performance is. But like, I got to stand there as the director and do the phone call as Brooke. And it was just so cool. Like, I don't know. Everybody kind of steps up with you when you direct on your own show. And I remember,

in a really interesting way, watching these scenes made me remember all of those little things that I just hadn't thought about in years and it was really sweet. Yeah, I love when one member of the cast will direct because it really is that, like, team spirit of we got you like we're going to see you succeed and the crew is the same way

you know we had a great crew um i was best okay thank you for i'm jumping ahead but thank you for making sense of that last beat with brook i was confused while she was throwing away her birth control i didn't realize that she had been given bad news i was i was one i was left kind of going is she throwing away her birth control to like get pregnant and what yeah she's trying what's the thing yeah yeah and and i it hit me you know remembering shooting these scenes and and remembering doing that i've been ready at the doctor like you know it was so sweet to have haley essentially do a very authentic recall for the audience of you've wanted to have a baby you know since you were 22 brooks always wanted to be a mom and she's ready and she's ready and

she's ready. And then when she goes to tell Haley about the doctor's appointment, like my throat caught watching the scene because I was like, oh, I remember this. I remember what's coming. I know now that they've said I won't be able to have a baby, but I'm too upset to tell anyone. And it's why I'm crying with Haley in the corner of trick in the middle of the day. And it's why when Julian comes in and says, we're celebrating because he's done with his script. She's like, Right. Celebrating. Sure. You know, it's this sad experience. And it tracks, I think, why she reacts so terribly to Rachel because she has no one to take out her hurt and her upset on. And I think sometimes when you see someone who you have a complicated relationship with from your childhood, you revert to behaving like a child. And yeah, it all just came swirling back to me. And I was like, oh my God, this is the beginning of so much heartache for her. and complexity with, you know, the Julian and Alex of it all. So the whole thing's like kind of a trip.

And it made me love our show and all of you guys. And like even just the experience of making TV, it made it all feel new again, even though we'd been doing it for, you know, this was our seventh year. Yeah. And it was so cool. And it taught me so many lessons that I've just never forgotten as I've gone on to, you know, all the other things. Yeah.

Going back to what you were saying about Trick, I just had this, I had a note that there's already, it's like, trick is the place. It's like come for the drink, stay for the assaults. We're seven episodes deep, nine episodes deep, and we've already had two slaps and a punch. Yeah. It is just the place in the town. People, when they have beef, they're like, let's go to Trick to settle it. Yep. It used to be the basketball court and now it's the bar. Yeah, what's up with that? I don't know. Kind of interesting. Yeah, you hit a girl in trick. I hit a girl in trick. I hit a boy in trick. And fill me in. I was able to gather that she stole some money from you. But what exactly is the backstory with you too, why you dislike her so much? So the backstory with Brooke and Rachel is that we were sort of each other's arch nemesis who then became best friends in high school.

We wound up living together. But Rachel was like, you know, we had like a lot of dude writers. They just wrote her as like a quintessential, like, stereotypical bad girl who, you know, tried to hook up with everybody's boyfriends. And that's why Haley slapped Rachel back in high school and, you know, all of, all the humor there. And by the way, like honorable mention for me, I'm just going to go ahead and say, James Lafferty, looking at DeNeil and then Paul and saying, well, if you run out of all my high school friends, I guess I could dip into my middle school friends for you. I was like, oh, girl. It's just like, it was so funny because you've got Jamie being like, hi, Grandma, Rachel, and everyone doesn't know what to do. Genius.

How about her line in that same scene where she says, it's funny, I used to want you to be my daddy, but now I'm your mommy. And then she doubles down, Jamie runs in the room and she goes, oh, hi, I remember when you were a rumor in third period. I have that line written down. It's so good. Like iconic, they gave DeNeil some of the best one-liners in this, and I loved seeing her. I love seeing Rachel and Nathan throwing them back at each other. It's so great, because you assume it's going to be Dan, but it's so fun to see it coming from the two of them. I like that Dan was enjoying the experience, too.

Like, the little smirk on his face, like, oh, this is fun. Yeah. But the sort of, to wrap that up, Rob, once we skip college and close over bros is it. thing, Brooke has Rachel modeling for the company. Brooke essentially gave Rachel the first version of Alex Dupre's job. And then Rachel was living in her place in New York and then became an addict and then stole a bunch of money from her. And it was like a whole nightmarish thing. And I don't know. I don't think they ever really wrapped up that storyline very well, which made me so happy to have, you know, the Dan and Rachel surprise because it's nice to have her back.

but God, Rachel quoting Dan Scott to Brooke being like, forgiveness, I just, it was, it was just absolutely priceless. Also, speaking of Dan, how perfectly Dan is it that on his private jet is not only his name, but a picture of himself? And the phrase above the door. And if I may, that was all my choices. Like, what a crazy thing, by the way, is the first time. director they're like well we've got to rent a private plane to shoot this scene so like i don't know where

we got it some the network obviously handled that um but someone brought in a jet and i was like no it's got to be so overly branded yes as as the dan scott plane um and my god it just made me so so happy step into the light over the over the jet door and they were like do we really need to? I was like, we need it. We have to have it. Yes. And you got it. And that Cohen brother's shot of him standing in the door with that thing over the top of him. And even the color timing was cool and like vintagey and retro. And that shot that was just slightly above the waist. It was so good, Sophia. Thank you. And then her, she came out in the fur coat. I was like, no, if we're doing it, we are doing it big. It's Jim and Tammy Fay. It's like, I mean, you went full

TV evangelist, and I was so here for it. Yeah. I love it. It was really fun. That was the fight I was the most happy to win as a director on this. That was a good one to go to bat for. Yeah. I was like, I know you think it's silly. It's not silly. We're doing it. Worth it. The decals were worth it. Were you, maybe you already talked about this. Tell me if you did, but did you like acting in something that you're directing at the same time? I really loved certain aspects of it. I loved being able to, I was saying this to Rob a little while ago, that, you know, it was nice that I got to kind of block the places that I worked.

I was, you know, I was at Brooke and Julian's house. I was at Trick. And then I had, you know, those two scenes at the doctor's office. But it was very condensed, which was really helpful. I have visceral sense memories of directing in the nightclub outfit, which was so funny to me. The nightclub outfit, which was what? The black...

Which was like the one shoulder. Yeah. You had some dueling black and white off the shoulder, like white off the shoulder in the first half and then the black off the shoulder in the second. I noticed. Don't think that went unnoticed. I didn't even track that at the time. But wow, I was really in a deep side part era, I suppose. But yeah, I remember the photos sitting in the director's chair behind Video Village in that outfit and how funny that was.

The most glamorous director. Oh, yeah. Because obviously on all the other days, it's like you come to work with wet hair and no makeup on and sweatpants because you're trying to do a job. But it's that. And then the night on the beach doing that final Clay and Quinn walk and talk and the first time they kiss, I was telling Rob when we first got on the Zoom, I remember the way the air smelled that night. You know, when it's like a hot southern beach night and everything smells like salt and minerals and like you can smell the heat. I just remember that. night. It was so perfect and I was so happy that my like hairbrained idea to do a walk and talk in the dark worked out. It had to be a walk and talk by the way. It had to. The thing I remember about that scene was when Chantal and I ran it going like some of the dialogue was just cheesy. I don't mean that to be a rip but because we're talking like the moon is made of cheese and we're both of us just saying like what are we saying? What is this? And then it was like let's just let's just do our best to sell the shit out of it and get past it because then it'll get good you know but it had that scene

had to have movement if you had a saying those words standing looking at each other it would have felt so uncomfortable yeah it would have had to make for a lot of awkward fidgeting you know what I mean which which would go against everything we're building it may look different but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in

television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why. Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies.

It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare. And frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years.

I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts. or wherever you get your podcasts. There was also something I really liked that we were able to build into this episode

where as those feelings are building, as the balloon is swelling up, you were always doing something. You guys went to the Volunteer Center together. You were sitting at a bar facing out and stealing glances over Nathan. You were in the dark room working on photos. Like walking and something,

Sometimes being next to someone, like driving in a car or not having to look at them, allows you to say so much more than you might feel safe to do when you're holding eye contact. And it felt so nice then to get the payoff of when you finally turn and look at each other and you admit that you're both afraid. And then we get our hero moment. We get our hero kiss. It was like, oh, they've arrived. And it was nice to see that work out. Did you notice? I was so curious if you got this, because I'm sure you watched it.

episode so closely. The first scene with Clay and Quinn, where she comes to the beach house, it ends with her saying, like, I'm going to take you somewhere. I'm going to surprise. You just come with me. And she pulls me out of the shot. You have a little tiny camera pan. And at the very end, did you notice that it catches a flag? There's a giant black flag in the side of the shot? Well, you know why that is? Because the ratios have changed since streaming. So like one of the things our show gets the most made fun of for on the internet is that it was not made to fit a whatever 16 by 9 or i don't know i don't know what it was versus what it is there's too many things for my dyslexic brain to keep track of but like there's like an incredible shot in season one of when chad goes to

rescue hillary um when her car's broken down and he brings the tow truck from keith's auto body and like you can fully see the edge of a sound guy and a boom and a whole like now that it's readjusted for streaming and the screens are wider we like we have widescreen televisions now they weren't like that when we first started making the show instead of cutting off what's currently there they just added they pulled back that's so funny i just saw a reel of of lafferty watching a shot it's like a wedding shot and it's a giant giant you know wide wide camera shot um a crane shot and you clearly at the top of the frame, you see the dolly, the camera operator, the assistant camera operator, and like the grip pushing them.

Yeah. Because if you remember you guys, like from standing behind Video Village, there would be this wide monitor, but then the black lines inside of it that showed you the television screen. Yeah. Framing. So if there was someone standing in between a black line in the edge of frame, what did we give a shit for? It wasn't going to be on TV.

And now it's on TV. TV. That's so funny. It's so terrible. Just you folks out home get to see how the magic is made. Yeah. I thought this episode, the one thing I kind of found myself going, really? And this isn't a directorial thing at all, is just how quickly Millie has turned into a cautionary tale. Has she done a single job as a model yet?

Because it's so outrageous. And I think they went, like it's just some of them. the stuff is silly. I get the pressure to feel thin after Jana's comments and what she's doing. But the fact that she's calling mouth mouth and not Marvin, like show her behavior changing, but to start showing personality changes, it all just, and she's like, she's stealing drugs. Everything changed. I found myself going, has she done a single job yet? Yeah, like, who is this person? No, I think she just did the runway show. Yeah. And then she got hired to model, but never, I haven't seen.

seen her doing it yet. And what annoys me is they did that classic thing. Something I loved was you saying, Rob, to, when Clay says to Nathan, let me do my job. And then it cuts to Millie saying to Alex, it's my job. Like, I love those little flip of the coin kind of dialogue transitions. But what shocked me about it, as good as Lisa was at playing what she was given and making it feel hilarious and out of control and, yes, motivated by having to keep up. Like, I thought she did such a great job, but what bothered me was that all they gave her in the dialogue to explain this enormous transition was, I've been seen in all my C over B clothes. I need something new. I have to dip into your closet. They were alluding to the fact

that Millie's been going to so many events for the company now that she no longer has anything to wear. And I was like, God, I hate when they want to excuse where they want a character to be and they don't want to do the work to get your character there, they just give you a line of exposition and they expect the audience to believe it's true. And I would have loved to have seen more of the,

I would have loved to have seen more of the experiences of Millie at these parties, maybe feeling awkward and then beginning to get rewarded by behaving like a caricature of Alex and these things that she is in this episode. I want to see her journey to get here. Well, and I want to see, it was sort of like they took an extra sketch and they just shook the Millie character and then started with nothing and then made her an after school special. Like I didn't feel, like Millie is someone who is, she's professional, she's organized. And all of that was gone.

Like, there was no personality outside of, I need this. This is important. And like, she already has diet pills and she's stealing cocaine. Yeah. That's pretty far down the line. She's being shuddy to her boss slash friend. It was just. Yeah.

She's stealing from Brooke knowing about Brooke and Rachel's history. Like, it's all so weird. So strange. But I will say something that I love about Lisa as a performer is she was like, I'm going to make these scenes the best I can, whether they make sense or not. Like she committed to the bit. She committed to letting this girl go off the rails.

And I am appreciative of actors. It took me a while to learn this. There were times when I would feel so uncomfortable when my character was being put in compromising positions or whatever. And I realized after a while, oh, it's not my job to judge my characters. Yeah.

It's my job to make their journeys, true, whether their journeys are squeaky clean and great or not. And I loved that Lisa showed up, not to judge Millie, but just to allow Millie to have a, a whoa, what's happening to you moment. And she committed full throttle. And I really admire that about her. Yeah. Her performance was great. She did that material as well as you could. It was just, I felt myself to disappoint in the writing. When they do the flip that fast. Yes, exactly. I wonder if they have all the boards up, in the writer's room, you know, and I wonder if they're cross, cross-referencing, cross-section, like trying to, you know, on a map how you have to, like, you know folks on maps.

You know, on those old cartography papers. Yeah, you've got the grid. You have to find, you know, whatever your street is, 013. So I'm wondering if they have these sort of things around the writer's room where they know they've got all the storylines and how they intersect. And if they can't get character C to point 13 by episode 12, then it's a huge problem because then it starts affecting the fallout for characters in other ways all over the show. So I think like it's got to be a really difficult job to keep all those balls in the air and cross-section everything. And by the way, part of the reason Millie had to be so far down this kind of wild path in this episode was so that.

when Rachel was apologizing to Brooke for stealing from her, Brooke would turn around and see that Millie had just stolen from her. Like it had to happen this way, but it is the unfortunate thing, as we all know and remember. The great thing about being in an ensemble cast is that there are so many storylines and you don't have to do the tired, repetitive, like character A and character B, go on the same journey again.

But what does happen sometimes is if there's, this really important thing happening in section one, and there's not enough time in episode 708 to get over here into section three with Millie, they're just going to give her a line of exposition at the top of episode 709 and be like, oh well, she's been partying and she, you know, yeah, like they have to keep it moving. So it's like, on the one hand, I'm bummed as a viewer because I want more of her journey. And on the other hand, literally being behind the camera on this episode. I feel like I, to your point, Joy, I have such grace for how complex that is. And it really makes me think about the kinds of showrunners. Like, when you think about an

Aaron Sorkin on the West Wing, where you go, oh, you're a freaky genius. That you were able to do years and years of a show and never have anything that felt like this. Like, how does a brain do that? Rob, have you ever directed anything? I haven't. Do you have a desire to? I have an Interest. Okay. I had, because I had a mentor early on tell me, you're going to make a great director, Robbie. And because I just looked up to him so much, I thought, oh, so he planted a seed, but I've also just found myself. I guess the answer is my interest is growing, but I haven't had the burning desire to really start advocating for it.

Totally. Like if it was a short, I wrote or something, yeah, you know, I always try to learn when I'm on set, but I'm not, yeah. I think on I zombie I remember saying hey if we do a six season I want to direct and there was a part of me going I I wouldn't mind if we didn't get a six season because I was a bluff I need the universe to step in because I'm kind of afraid I just said that to say it there's so many different ways of storytelling and your passion can lie in so many different areas of that one of the things that I do think is so cool though about the opportunity to direct any universe that you know really well like you did with I zombie the way I feel like I feel like I I did, you know, and you obviously did joy when we were doing it this season in our show is you know little things that aren't on the page. But for example, when we think about the heart-to-heart, you know, kind of calling him out moment that I got to have as Brooke with Paul, Julian's dad, and say, I've got this ugly

poster on my wall because of you, because he has one memory of one good day. And he had to look at that and it reassessed their relationship. You see in this episode, and this was so important to me, making what was Peyton's and then Sam's room into Julian's office and putting the thin red line poster in there and having him call his dad and his dad's walking around in this beautiful LA office. And then near the end of the scene when Paul, Julian's dad, Paul, not Paul Norris. Yeah. I'm like, I can't say that because of Paul Dan, but Julian's dad walks through his office. and then when it cuts from Julian and cuts back to him,

you see him step into a shot and the thin red line poster is now hanging on the wall in his office. Oh, no way. I didn't catch that. And that was a thing that I knew to do to tell the story of these men, you know, finding each other

and having this thing and this love between this father and this son that was healing. And like, I don't know, a director who might have come to do 709 but hadn't seen that episode or hadn't read those scripts maybe because it wouldn't have been in there let me catch up on the World of Wentree Hill package like might not have had that so there's something so cool that you get to do in terms of keeping these these Easter eggs in the world when when you know a show like front and back so I I don't know I get that you know you

might have felt relieved but I would love to see you direct and like see what you would pull out. It would be so much screaming and just divisive, really authoritarian. Yeah, it would be Iron Fist. Yeah, that really tracks for your person. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native comic. or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory.

Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi.

What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I have a question about Julian and Brooke. Why did Julian not invite Brooke to come over to Alex's and participate in this helping Alex situation? I know. Listen, this great, great question. And I also watched this whole scene going, oh, buddy.

Oh, buddy. Come on, pal. You can do what you can just talk her through the phone. You know what I mean? Like, you don't need to go to a hotel room. You tell her to dump it out. and find a meeting. Like, you don't need to be the one who goes.

It was a real dumb, dumb move on his part, especially after he's been leaving Brooke sort of on her own for this long and this is their night out to celebrate. You're going to dip. I know. Dude. Like, I can understand being a friend who doesn't, if he's never experienced this that before,

although being a producer in Hollywood, I find it hard to believe, but it's okay. If he's never experienced this kind of desperate, on the other line. I get the first instinct. I'm kind. I want to come help. I want to participate and be there for you. So even giving him the space to not know the alternative, call a Brooke or tell her and be like, come with me. Let's go do this together. We're a team. I'm sorry it's ruining our date night, but like we have somebody that we know who's in trouble. Let's do it together.

Yeah. And this person makes you uncomfortable. So come see our relationship and action and understand that it's not that kind of a thing. Yes. You know. Yeah. And the way we sort of had to, because again, there's no drama if he does, if he does break work. Yeah, he has to make a dumb decision. And like, this is a drama. So you got to have the drama. But the only way that we could figure out how to make that decision seem feasible was that when he came out to look for Brooke, she was gone and he didn't know where she was. And it was like, I got to go. Oh, did you guys come up with that? I, it's hard to remember.

I don't know if we came up with it. But you had weeks of prep too, so you easily could have called and been like, this doesn't make sense. Yeah. I feel like that was something that was really important to Austin and I, and it's why we shot that close up of him, like, looking around trick and not knowing even where to go because it's a huge crowd at that point, and she's not at the bar. And there's, you know, we've specifically left my empty cocktail glass there. Yeah.

So we wanted there to be some sort of plausibility to the fact that he doesn't have time to find her. He's got to run out and make sure this person doesn't like, God forbid, OD or whatever. Yeah. But what I loved, I loved that we were able to get the moment once he got there. It's obviously not a ruse on Alex's part. Jana was so beautiful in these scenes. I mean, so vulnerable. She killed it.

She just absolutely sat there with me. was completely willing to trust us and let me keep rolling. And I was like, I don't want to cut. I just want to be here for you and like let this be real. And she was so raw and so vulnerable. And for me, in a way, because of how wonderful she was, it sold why Julian did what he did because clearly she wasn't trying to trick him. She was really, really struggling. And I thought the line was so great when she said you're the only one I could call who wouldn't want to do it with me or report it to the tabloids and you go off this girl literally has no one who cares about her in her world and yes she has put you know questionable feelings for this man who is someone else's boyfriend and yes all these

things but when you really see underneath all the bluster I think it's so beautiful and I think they did such a good job and I love I love Alex and Julie Like of all the people I'm supposed to hate them And I actually really, really love them I love watching them together Yeah, they're fun It's like Abbott and Costello They're special fun

Yeah It's circling back to what you were saying About needing to connect Like all the connective tissues Between the big beats I gotta say Now I get it Because the vial of Coke had to be empty

The smartest way to get it empty Without her knowing Is to have Melly Still it So I was sort of thinking of it in a vacuum But the truth is When you got to make all that work Yeah All right, rescinded, rescinded writers.

Yeah, it's like, it's like finding the next pages on the Thomas Guide, like the letters and the numbers have to add up. That's what it's in the Thomas Guide. Do you know what kind of boomers we sound like when we talk about Thomas guides? You realize no one under 38 has ever used the Thomas Guide. Totally. Yeah, totally. Who cares? Or a map.

Joy, I have a question for you because I don't remember. But our storyline, obviously, the episode is so sweet because you get to see our history since I. high school. And like, I love Brooke and Haley's friendship. And I love that Brooke lets you in on the secret and then comes to you with the sadness and the whole vibe. Yeah. But part of me had this moment where I was like, wait, I don't remember because you come to me to dress you for your concert. And then you're wearing a hoodie. Yeah, I don't wear anything of yours at all. Do you remember? I don't remember. That's so funny. I guess we just got sidetracked. We, I'm imagining we just started gabbing and talking about your maybe

pregnancy. I don't know. By the time I left, it was like, Brooks gonna be okay. And then I got home and went, oh, shit, I didn't get anything from clothes over proves. And I remember the, like, device, you know, because you're zipping and unzipping and zipping and zipping. Like, it's a nervous thing with the sweatshirt. But then Haley walks on stage to sing

and you're wearing the sweatshirt. And I genuinely was like, did you and I make that choice? Was that? Like, I just don't remember. But I was like, wait. We have this lovely storyline together, and part of our storyline is that I've made you an outfit. I feel like there was some conversation about the hat. Like, it was terrible.

I don't know why I was so insistent on that stupid purple beret. Okay, I wasn't going to say it. You were very insistent on the knit cap. I was. I don't know what. It was horrible. I remember talking with you about it on set. And I was like, no, I'm going to wear it.

You're like, I'm wearing it. And I was like, I did. You're like, joy. Sure. I just don't think Brooke would have given Haley this hat. I literally know it. You're going to die. I wrote down in my notes. I go, to be clear, close over bros does not do vienies. Hey, also at the fashion show, we had the introduction of grubs. I know. Oh, my gosh.

So epic. And I love, I forgot that his, like, spiritual gift when he first got on the show was that he knew what everyone wanted to drink. Same. I love the vibe. He is the antithesis of Chase. And I love that Chase is in on the joke. And he's like, this guy actually knows what you want to drink. Everyone leave me alone. It's so funny.

Isn't there a bit, doesn't someone walk up and they go guess their drink? And he says, blood? Dan, Dan Scott. Oh, Dan. Yeah. That was great. It's so good. Yeah, it was great introduction of him.

And he's now scoring James's show with James and Stephen's show, everybody's doing great. Yeah, Grubbs scores the whole show. Like, it's amazing how families just lasted. And he and Kate Vogel have their band. They've got their band, your future ghost. It's so, so fun. That's wild. Is the song that you sing in this episode, Joy, an original of yours?

It is. Nice. Okay. Yeah, I was dreading this episode. I was really dreading it. I'm so glad that it's over. You insisted on. The knit cap.

It's burned into my brain. Yeah, all of it. It was, I was, I could see it in my eyes. Like, I was at a really low point in my life. Yeah. When we were filming this episode. And, I mean, I could, I could see it. I could, I'm watching myself just act in these scenes and, like, my heart's breaking for younger me. Like, I was in a lot of pain. So I'm glad this episode's over. I'm glad for you. It's over. I was wondering how you were going to, like, I mean, I have. I'd like to think I knew how you were going to feel about it. I didn't know how you would feel about talking about it. But it was interesting to look back on it, given that whole dynamic and who was involved in your music then and who was involved in your life then.

And watching it from this point, I was like, God, the ringers, we got put through as young women in some of these situations that, like, on the other side of them, I'm amazed. got out of in the way that we did. And like, we just had to go to work and be so happy all the time. Like, just do it no matter what. And nobody really cared. And it is like very interesting when I think about, you know, the way everyone's been able to hold on to each other all these years later. I'm like, yeah, because we like survived our own, like, even within what was happening at moments on the show for us all, we each had to go through these incredible trials and tribulations in our lives. Yeah. And come into work and act like it wasn't happening.

And oh, boy. It's amazing what artists are required to do. And do gladly. Like, in spite of all of the personal pain that I was in, I actually was really glad to come to work. It was a relief for me. It was a safe haven. It was a place to come. And, you know, escape. Escape, yeah. And, of course, personal lives bleed into things like being insistent on purple hats that don't look good on camera. Because I wanted to be in control of something. Listen, it's a fine exercising of emo. Don't worry about it.

Yeah, that's, I mean, that was the least of it. But, like, it is amazing what, what artists do. I really it just makes me it makes me love actors I just love actors like we care so much about telling stories and telling good stories that no matter what's going on in our life we just are able somehow to shut it all down and dive back into the story it's so great have you seen the footage of I think it was right when katie Perry was going through her divorce with Russell brand and there's a there's they're videoing her right before she gets raised up to the stage and she is like sobbing just sobbing she's like hyperventilating and then it's and then the thing starts to go up and she has to turn it on and she hits the stage and she's just on badass form it's like you have to have the capacity to do that it's like okay you're going through stuff but for the next hour you got to not be you got to not be you just have to not be yeah it's it's extraordinary I mean, it's terrible in many ways, but there are outlets and ways to learn how to cope with it.

And nobody's got a perfect life and nobody's got a perfect job. And we all need to exist in different spaces because the world needs people who get to go through all of their emotions on a regular basis. And the world needs people who can compartmentalize them for different reasons. I loved, like, obviously the behind the scenes of it, not. weighing into the episode itself like we know each other so we know but I I loved seeing you back on stage as Haley yeah I loved I love the comedy that we've settled into with Haley and Miranda like the buddy comedy with the girls is so fun for me the Alex and Millie and the Haley and Miranda and like she's so ridiculous but so funny because India is so great yes and her being

like, I love that I came up with this idea. And you're just like, what the fuck? The whole thing is just so good. And it felt nice to see Haley win. Yeah, I did too. I was nice to see her just sort of stepping into her into one of her passions and having space to do that. And it's like she was saying to Nathan at the end, which was short-lived. But hey, look at us. That scene. And he's like, why did you have to say it? You jinxed it? Don't jinx us. To turn. Turn around from that sweet moment, see Dan and Rachel. And then his contract gets swiped out from under him. I was like, oh, man, come on.

Also, by the way, just Nathan opening the door to Dan Scott and then shutting it. And shutting it. That was perfect. Okay, I know we're running over friends at home. Thank you for bearing with us. We have a listener question that I actually think is sort of perfect for this, since we're talking about these eras we went through on this show because Susan asks, which One Tree Hill episode or scene

do you think would make a great standalone short film and how would you envision it? I got one for this. Okay. I want to see an entire movie of when Millie has to pick up Alex Dup Prey at the airport and get her to the hotel, except I want to see it like planes, and automobiles where it's just they have to endure all the stuff together and we get to see

the two of them. That was mine. Yes. Was it? Oh, man. Because we've talked about that before. Yes. It would be so good.

Okay, runner up. That can be yours, Joy. Here's my runner up. No, no, no. It's fine. That's fine. How about the episode where the three of you get stoned? I could go for a funny Halloween movie.

Totally agree. A movie of that. And also, Rob, there's an episode you haven't seen, but back in the high school years where Brooke and Haley and Peyton went on a road trip to New York together. And like, when we watched it, we all said this should have been a movie. This should have been like a 90 minute. We needed more of this. Oh, yeah.

So there's something, yeah, there's just something about those moments for the girls. Yeah. A Tree Hill Road Trip, I'm in. Yeah. Wait, what was your runner up, Rob? What did you just say? The weed brownie party. Oh, yeah.

Wait. Has anybody made a comedy horror movie where the main characters get stoned and then they're like being chased by people, but they're like dealing with murder and being high? Yeah, it was called Pineapple Express. Oh, right. Not a horror, but yes, an action. Not horror. A stoner action film. We could do it.

What if we did? Here's how it is. It's the weed brownie party, but it's done a la clue. Like the original clue. Yes. Oh, my God. And you have to solve puzzles, but you're stoned. Yeah.

Yes. I want to see that. That's it. Okay, great. All right. Should we spin a wheel? Let's do it. Let's spin a wheel, friends.

I really want to know what happens next week also. I have no idea. I don't either. This episode didn't lead us into anything except Nathan Scott's career. It gave me no clues. Yeah. Well, we're going to get more of Dan and Rachel, I'm sure. Oh, God.

I hope so. Oh, my God. Most likely to compete on dancing with the stars. Jana did it. Oh la la. Yeah, Jana. There you go. You guys, she did it.

She's so good. How'd she do? Jana. I mean, pretty freaking well. I, gosh, you know who else I think would be really good at it? Would also be Lisa Goldstein. They should go together. That could be a freaking short film.

Millie and Alex go on dancing with the stars. Because Lisa did so much, like, incredible choreography in her first job for so long. Yes. Oh, I feel like that would be so hard. Also, is it weird that I feel like I could see Lee Norris doing that and being really good at it? Fully agree. He would be so good.

Yeah. I think actually Antoine would be really good at that too. Because he throws himself 100% into anything that he goes for. He does. I mean, I think it would be like, ha ha, this is really funny. But he would work hard. So essentially what you're saying is there should be a whole season of of dancing with the stars

just with our cast. Let's do it. Did you imagine? That would actually be so funny. Listen, I would be the first voted off, but I would give you one hell of a performance. Would you do bad dancing on purpose? Oh, 100%.

Like in the commercial? Okay, great. No, the sad thing is I would actually try my hardest and probably still get voted on. Oh, I'm sad. All right, friends. This was perfect. What do we got next week?

Next week, we have season seven in episode 10, you are a runner and I am my father's son. Interesting. Strange. All right. Two to Lou friends. Thanks for joining us, everyone. We'll see you next week.

Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school. Drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school. Queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl.

Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion, but you're tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. We aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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