Drama Queens - BONUS: Laverne Cox

Episode Date: July 10, 2026

Success changed Laverne Cox's life—but it didn't answer all of her questions. In this bonus chat, she shares stories behind some of the most profound and painful passages in her new memoir "Transcendence," reflecting on healing, resilience, and why becoming yourself is a lifelong process.Laverne's memoir "Transcendence" is in bookstores now.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hi, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Welcome back to Work in Progress with Laverne Cox. Let's dive back in. One of the things that bothers me, things I think about, you know, a lot in my life, is, and you said this perfectly just now, for trans people, your identity is looked at as being exclusively sexual.

And it's the same for queer people. They're like queer people shouldn't be able to adopt children. Queer people shouldn't be able to get married. The children, the children. 73% of women in America are unalived by violence done to them by current or former intimate partners, cis male intimate partners. Most women die by the hand of a man. Most children are abused by their straight or straight identifying father or a family relative.

They know these people. It's not gay parents. It's not trans folks. Yet there's not a whole movement saying all men. They're like, oh, men, like the 99.9% of like white men who are mass shooters, we don't say that there's like, I mean, some people are saying it's a crisis with men, but we have to like pass laws. Yes. That like limit the ability of white men to get guns and classify them as terrorists. They're actually would kind of be, I mean, but to like make it a bad identity. That would be logical though, but they don't want us to say that. Statistically, it would make. more sense. Yes. But still, just,

but it's an American to say, to, like, say that you, if you're a white man, you, if you're a white man, statistically, you are more likely to be a mass shooter based on the data.

But, like, to pass a law to say that all white men can't be, can't get access to guns and need to be, like, put on a terrorist watch list and classified as, like, potential terrorists, like they're trying to do with trans people. Like, when there's maybe, like,

one or two trans shooters, It's crazy. I know. It's crazy. It's crazy. But what I think, like, we're in a meta, like, political space now, and I, and I love being there. But I also think that, like, part of the reason I wrote this book, too, is that, like, how do we, how do we bring it back to ourselves? Yes. And that was going to be my question. We can't come together across differences if we have not, we're not right with ourselves. If we have a, if we have a. like got into a place where we are not allowing our own traumas to affect the ways in which we interact with other people.

I feel like sometimes with some of the, um, the turfs that, you know, we'll just use that as a forehand. With the turfs, like a lot, there's a lot of trauma. When I hear, I'll just, I'm chasing her name, but the rowling woman, the Harry Potter woman, a ralding. Well, sometimes when I hear a talk and I hear, I hear real trauma there. I hear like a fear, you know, and like trauma that is unprofile. around, you know, the assault that she experienced, and I have empathy for that.

Well, she seems to be very red-pilled, but what's fascinating to me is that anyone would think in a world where men, look at the Epstein files, look at the president of the United States at current and all of his allies, not being required to testify under oath, not being required to testify in public. Men don't have to dress up as women to hurt men. Men just hurt us. trans women are not having the level of courage to buck a binary that has been created by a patriarchal society for hundreds of years as a game. Your identity has nothing to do with other women. It has to do with yourself. And trans women are women.

And that's what somebody like her, I think, cannot comprehend because she's clearly never, to your point, investigated her own experience. her own trauma or her own freedom to that level. And then how can we de-center ourselves, too? It's like there's a piece around, like, dealing with our owning our story, dealing, you know, dealing with our trauma, and we're responsible for that as adult, but also de-centering ourselves. So it's not just about, like, my feelings and what's going on with me.

It's like, how do I, like, look out and, like, not diminish myself, but understand that there's other perspectives and other ways of seeing things and not, And making sure that I don't let my trauma, my whatever, allow me to not have perspective to look outside myself and not like always center myself. Well, and I think that's one of the healthiest side effects of doing the work is in an interesting way you get better at boundaries and you also get more gentle with people at the same time. You can make more space for people. And I'm curious if we can like, I want to deep dive a few questions specifically on the book. Because I'm like, girl, we need to like sit with a bottle of wine and have this political

conversation for four hours over a good Italian meal. But the book in particular, when you think about that, because choosing to go inward and do this project is so personal. And you do it essentially in these three gorgeous acts. There's three segments of the book. But in a way, when you offer us these lessons by being so specific about your journey, you decenter yourself in a way because you give us tools that are for everyone. And I'm curious how you began to figure that out.

And especially when you look back at, you know, I want to ask a question about every segment. In the first segment, knowing something was off and then finding your identity and art, you know, thinking about ASFA. Like, how did that begin to make sense for you? So the book is, and this came from my therapist. I'm doing for Burn Flyer, who I'm seeing tonight. I mean, San Francisco, she's coming to the book event. She said to me in a session many years ago that the journey of healing from trauma is often going from what's wrong with me.

Think, you know, as a child, like, something's wrong with me. I'm like, not like everybody else. And then I, you know, that was affirmed by my mother who, what's wrong with you? My teachers, what's wrong with you? The other kids, what's wrong with you? And, like, internalizing, what's wrong with me? Not something's wrong. And then evolving as I start therapy.

and understand that it's not, oh, it's actually about what happened to me. There was nothing wrong with me. Like, things happened and, like, people put things on me. Yeah. So it was about what happened to me. And some of a lot of the abuse that happened to me that I was in denial about that, I didn't have the capacity to even hold. And so I disassociated as a child.

There was no way I could process all that. So I brilliantly disassociated. But when it's time to be an adult, like, I have to. to like, if I'm gonna, you know, stay on the planet, be relatively healthy and functional, I have to actually deal with the trauma and what happened to me and admit that it happened and start trying to make sense of it

and the stories that I've told myself around it and reality check those stories, reprogram and change those tapes and, you know, start reprogramming my nervous system. And then the what's right, part three, what's right with me, part of that healing, that rewiring my nervous system is also about a both-and. That, like, yes, there are neuro pathways in my nervous system that have been hardwired

for trauma that exist in my body in specific places. But there's also, like, pathways of resilience that have always existed there. And I can build, like, new pathways, and I can fortify the existing pathways of resilient. You can feed those. And those pathways of resilience have always been there since I was a kid. And like understanding that and looking back at like what was really part of the torture was like trying to go back and like, well, just going back and being, you know, two years old, being three years old. And like all the fear that I didn't know how to let myself feel. Yeah.

Feeling that and trying to make sense of what was going on for me as that kid. understanding that like I had a sense of myself from a very early age and a critical awareness that I developed because like, I think a lot of trans people probably have this and maybe a lot of queer people too because we're told we're supposed to be this way and that you're a boy, whatever, and I'm like, well, that's not right.

I know I'm not a boy. So I just started questioning. It was just like a questioning. And then I had a sense that I was here for something bigger. than me. I just, that I was here for something big. I thought I was supposed to be a star. And like, and I just, in that sense that sounds crazy and delusional in a way, but the events of my life have like proven that I, you know, I, maybe I wasn't so crazy. That that resilience has always been there, that sense of self, which is such a miracle, such a miracle for me. And to have,

And one of the other gifts of my life is having a twin brother who has been there the whole time and you could bear witness. You know, I'm like, do you remember this? Do you feel like, you know, and to him to be able to say, you're the same person you've always been. You're more yourself. You're more, you're freer, you're less encumbered. But this is who you've always been since you were a kid. And to have that affirmed is a beautiful, is a beautiful, beautiful. beautiful tag.

Yeah. We'll be back in just a minute, but here's a word from our sponsors. The newest tracks, let's go. New music and the next big thing. Always on the new music first. Your first place to hear it all. Because you're going to like it, love, or want to play it twice. I heart new music.

Your digital station for brand new drops, fresh vines, and tomorrow's bangers. I think we need something new. Discover I heart new music. New music, always fresh, always first. Stream now on the free IHard Radio app. To have a mirror in that way, and then as you say, this sense of knowing that I think so many kids have talked out of them you held on to, and it felt for me, at least, as a reader, you know, not wanting to give too much away, that winding up in the Alabama School of Fine

Arts, as you then go into this, you know, part two from the what's wrong with me to the what's happened to me as you as you start to put those pieces back together and to understand all the aspects of identity and how they feed your art art like that sense that you had as a little kid that you were supposed to be on a stage under a spotlight you have always found a voice as an artist in pursuit of a stage in pursuit of a camera you know um in pursuit of a spotlight, but in pursuit of the process of being an artist. Like the learned, like really learning to enjoy the process of creating a character, of rehearsing, of, you know, or of writing when I, you know, writing a solo show now, the joys of that.

Like, but I didn't feel with this book. But the joys of being in process and being and technique, technical meeting, like, especially when you study classical ballet. It's a very technical art form. And so there's technique. I have to keep my heels down until the very last minute and pull up so I can get six pirouettes. You know, there's like specific methodology that I need to achieve to like jump higher, to get my legs higher. Yes. So the relationship between being that the acting things that I learn as an actor that can help me like in being a better human being or more effective in my real life. It's like, it's really cool when that happens.

But being an artist is like, it's such a sacred, sacred humbling gift. Calling feels like, you know, self-important. I feel called. It does feel like a calling. And it's mine. And whether, you know, because I, the world, I guess I get really self-conscious about like what other, you know, oh, she sucks.

She can't act, you know. And like, I have, I have, I'm probably my worst critics. Like, I have moments. Oh, me too. Nobody's meaner to me than me. Oh, yeah. I'm at my own worst enemy. So no one can be more critical of me than me.

But sometimes I have, you know, sometimes I remember the third in the third Emmy nomination I got, I think it's season six. Casual. And I remember when the M-C season came out and this is one particular episode. And I was talking about acting coach and I was like, oh, I think I pushed. I think I over, I overacted. And it was, I saw it and it was just like, and you know, and then like, it was a year after we had shot it that it came out and I was just kind of like, oh, I just thought it was, I thought it was terrible.

And then like literally a year later, because the way when orange, orange always dropped in the summer, so it was like the show would come out of year after we shot it and the Emmy nominations would come out of year later. So like, it was like two years later. And I got an Emmy nomination for that episode. And I was like, you're like, oh, I guess I did a good job there. And I know I went back and watched you and I was like, but it was like two years later

and I actually had perspective. And so often if it's too close, I'm thinking of all the things that I plugged in. So I can't, I'm not, I'm watching as the character in the same sensation, energy, traumas, whatever I plugged in. Yes, because it's still alive in you. Yeah. I feel that too. I need like two or three years to be able to look at my work.

So I looked at it and was like, oh, okay, that's not so bad. Yeah. It's actually, it's raw. It's dropped in. It's big, you know, but sometimes. But it's alive. But sometimes it's alive. And sometimes Viola, I love that moment when, do you see that interview when Viola was talking

about doing fences and doing the big scene? I've been standing with you for 18 years doing that big scene. And Denzel, she does it. She's like, I want to be a cinematic actress. And she had done it on stage. And so I want to, you know, do a, you know, a cinematic performance. And so she does it. And Denzel's like, what was that?

And she's like, I'm trying to, you know, not be too big and do it, you know, a cinematic performance. And he was like, well, show me what she think is too big. And then she does, you know, she does it. And it was like, that's it. That's actually it. Don't do the other thing. Do that. And then she said what I learned is that some moments in life were big.

Yeah. Some moments in life. life are big. They just are. And when you think about that moment, it's fences, yeah. You see this dutiful wife, like,

she's, like, doing, you know, taking care of him and, like, doing all the things and supporting him. And he, like, this, they broke down patriarch,

you know, who's just, like, all about himself, really. And then he has the nerve. The nerve. The nerve. A nerd to have a baby.

And she's like, and he's like, you don't know about when you had to not have your dreams. He's like, I didn't stand it with you. Yes. And it was just like you see. Oh, I love Alexandria so much. Oh, I literally, I'm just thinking of like the things that we do. Well, but that's just it, right? We do as human beings.

And the ability to offer to be so human that other people see themselves. I watched her give the most gorgeous speech this year at the NWACP Awards. Oh, I saw this. I didn't see. I was in there, but I was so beautiful. You know, it's like I'm lucky. I get to, I'm like the white friend plus one with Nia every year when I'm when I get to be in town. And she just, it's the most magical room. And her speech was so gorgeous. Oh my God. And Sterling and Mike, I mean, everybody. But God. You're so annoyed. The first like three times I met her, I cry. I don't know that I could talk to her. I remember with the fact, right, first sag award. I was on the carpet and she walked by me. It's like, I just, I just kind of like, I was like, oh my God, LeVern, chill. And then we, me and Matt McGorry presented, you know, the best actress in a, you know, TV series or whatever. She won Padagolet's murder, so we got to present her with you with the SAG Award, which was, like, epic.

And I didn't really get to talk to her that night. I said a few words backstage. But then, like, the next year at the SAG Awards are, you know, Orange One for Ensemble. And at the after party, like she had won, I think, for the second year in a row when I passed her. And the photographer said, oh, can we get a photo with Viola? Or you said, okay with you, Stapis. And she's like, sure. And then I sit down with her, and then they take the picture, and then I start talking to her.

And I just, I was like, you know, there was a show called Judging Amy back in, like, the 90s, 2000s. And you had a guest spot on it. I didn't know who you were. And you were playing a crack addict who had relapsed. and then like was trying to get her daughter back and lost her daughter because she relapsed. And you, when they took your daughter away, they took your daughter away,

the way you fell down in the street, I was like, who is this woman? And I was like, I was steady acting. Who is this woman? She fell down in the street and she was weeping and it was so raw and it was so real. Oh my God, I can't even. Yeah.

And I was like, who is this? And I googled her and then I started seeing her on lawn orders and stuff. And I was just like, who is this? And so I was just like, and she was like, oh, one of my crackheads. And she kind of said it, you know, and I was telling you the story, I started crying, telling you the story, because it's so hard to, like, when you see something. Yes.

You're like, no, that changed my life. The epitome of what you maybe would hope to achieve as an artist one day. And it's there. It's like, and now I'm sitting next to you. With a SAG Award in your hand, ma'am. It was like 25 years ago or something. Yeah. All of it, guys.

All of it, That's beautiful. We'll be back in just a minute after a few words from our favorite sponsors. Hey, I'm Ruby Carr, the host of the podcast, Encore. Check out our brand new episodes

featuring music from the show that everyone is reheating as we speak. Heated rivalry. Join me as I go behind the songs that brought Shane and Elia together. I'll tell you the stories of Fice, My Moon, My Man, wolf parades, I'll believe in anything,

and tattoos all the things she said. And how they all became a part of this global phenomenon. Stream encore on IHeartRadio, crave, or wherever you get your podcasts. By the way, one of my best friends always says that to me, ironically, she always goes with me to the Saga Ward weekend. It's like our annual tradition.

And she'll be like, Sophia, you are also a famous person. You have to stop being so weird with all the other. And I'm like, but that's, but that, that's Viola Davis. Like, it's different. And it is so crazy when someone who just has affected the whole trajectory of what you believe is possible is standing in front of you. It's very surreal.

Yes, it is. To be though, you know, I think about that. Like to go from watching a guest star when you were studying to then sitting on a couch together, each of you holding, you know, a sag award in the same season, you have, and you cover it, you know,

for you and for us in this beautiful book, but you have accomplished so much. And you've talked so beautifully today and in other places. on this book tour about understanding that we're at a sort of really intense inflection point where we have to come up with something new. You understand our history, you understand your own, you understand what's at stake for our future. And I guess I just wonder if it's something personal or if it's about policy or if it's

professional. Like when you think and next my work in progress is, what does it feel like for you? for me personally yeah I mean it's I always try to remind myself that the reason why anyone has listened to me is because I was on a TV show

playing a character that they connected to and that gave me the platform that I have to do the work you know the sort of advocacy work that I do outside of acting so I even when people want me to do other things and focus on other things I've always prioritized acting I've always

focused on that And I'm at a point now artistically. I'm 54. And it's time to get better at this thing of being an actor. I want to be, I mean, we have Baila Davis. And then we have Emma Stone, the work she's been doing. The girls are acting. Acting their faces off.

My God. That's where I'm at. Like on a personal level and using my voice when I can. the way I can, part of my job is to educate. Yes, when too. That's what I'm going to keep doing. And I, you know, there are moments of being afraid,

but, you know, I don't have kids. I, this is my work. This is like, this is my, this is what I'm here to do. And I even had moments where, like, at a moment where I was like, you know, people don't always survive these things. You know, I'm not interested in being a moderate or anything like that. Like, I don't, I'm, I'm, I tend to not go to protest because it's not. Yeah.

I'm like, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I, I can't, I can't get arrested. It's not, like, I'm not, like, it's not, me getting arrested. It's not. Uh-uh. You go into jail. It's not. Mm-hmm. I did that on TV.

I can't do it in real life. No, ma'am. I just, I hope that everywhere you go in a time where I know the community doesn't always feel welcome or safe. I hope everywhere you go, at least. every day. Someone looks at you and says, you got me through something. You changed my life because you are doing that for many of us. That has been one of the best blessings of this book tour. Good. You've done that for me, Laverne. But I get to hear that because, you know, it's, I, I think when we,

three years ago when all the butt-life stuff is happening, I felt, I felt like I had failed. I felt like, I felt like I failed and like all this advocacy not that it's just about me and it's kind of egotistical and I have to check myself but I felt like I failed and it was even sort of my fault

because trans people all of a sudden they weren't visible before orange is new black and so not to be like self-important but like I felt like I failed and I still feel a little bit of that and but I also you know so all of this has been so

humbling it's been so life will humble you and I and I think I and I welcome it I welcome being humbled um again that's what that's the thing that's happening for me as well so it just makes me right sized it like it's like I'm I'm just I'm no better than anybody else I'm just on my journey struggling like everybody else is trying to do the best I can and so if there is something I've done or said that has um impacted someone's life in a positive way that is um I I I'm I'm I'm able to take it in in a way that I haven't always been able to and I need it.

I need to take it in. Because that's what it's about. That's what it's about. It's about being at service in some way. I'm filled with so much joy and gratitude and I'm so humbled right now by this moment. And I surrender. I surrender. It's beautiful.

I'm so happy for you. Congratulations. Thank you for coming today. It's so good to see you. This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed human.