Drama Queens - BONUS: Shawn Johnson East & Andrew East

Episode Date: July 3, 2026

Shawn and Andrew aren't just striving to create a happy home; they are determined to nurture and sustain it. In this candid bonus conversation, the couple reflect on protecting childhood joy, redefining success, and the key advice that has helped shape their successful marriage. "Courage to Commit: Embrace the Radical Power of Sticking with Something" is in bookstores now.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. Guaranteed Human. Hey, everyone. It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. We are back with the wonderful Sean Johnson and Andrew East to dig into the lessons they chose to write down for all of us in their brand new book, The Courage to Commit, Embracing the Radical Power of Sticking with Something. I want to talk to you guys about life all day, but I also very specifically want

to do a little extra chat just about the book because it's so great and I'm so happy, courage to commit is out in the world for people. You are taking all of your lessons, all of the things that you have figured out about how to be married, how to be leaders, how to go through these transitions in life, and offering them to people with delight

and with humor, which you crush online. Thank you for being one of my sources of joy on the internet. But I'm curious why you felt like now was the moment to write it. I think the best things in life are the most intimidating, the most beyond us, the most requiring of struggle. You know, it's like raising kids is not easy, nor is committing to your career when it's not going well, you know, or like the relationship. or staying in the relationship when it's like, man, we've had, it felt like eight weeks of just stone cold. Like, we are not on the same page. Yeah. And it's like, okay. You know, not,

not everything is worth committing to and not, like, there's healthy commitment and not unhealthy commitment. And I think like the differentiator there is kind of like this, I don't know, this concept of growth. So for me, you know, like in my football career, it was time for me to to move on because I was experiencing so much growth and interest in other areas of my life. And I was a long snapper in the NFL, which meant I was, you know, standing on the sidelines most of the time. And the playbook didn't vary that much. And so I was like, okay, I think I've done this thing. I accomplished my goals. I got my seasons in the NFL. And so it's like, but just because it's beyond us or you don't feel ready for it doesn't mean you shouldn't do it.

You know, like with parenting, you're like, dang, this is intimidating and terrifying. And that goes hand in hand with all of the incredible joys. And that's just what we felt like all of life has been. You know, it's like the best parts of life are that mixture of struggle and joy. And so it's like it takes a bit of courage to step into, you know what? my life isn't as organized as I thought it, or as I think it should be, to have kids,

or I don't have the career that I have to, that I felt like I needed to, to like, you know, feel like I was ready to be married. But there's like this, this courage that you need to step into that and realize, you know, this is all part of the process.

There's so much noise in the world right now that I feel like so many people, and there's statistics to back this, are feeling very lost. Because with so much, many options and so many opinions and so many people showing their way of life, I think a lot of times we get very confused as to what is my way and what's best for myself. And with so much noise and so much anxiety in the world, even with us, we found ourselves 10 years ago at a coffee shop,

writing on a piece of paper with pen for five hours. What do we want our life to look like? because we are leading a beautiful life that everybody would say is successful and great, but we don't feel, I don't want to say, fulfilled, purposeful, like we're doing what we should be. And so we went on this huge search for the past 10 years. We hired the greatest mentors. We did all these intensives. We've met some of the wisest people who have systems and ways to figure out what matters to you and how to embrace it and how to protect it and organizing. it and find true fulfillment in your life that suits you.

And we wake up every day pinching ourselves saying, how do we get to live this life? And we do everything in our power to protect it. And so we write in our book everything we've learned from the most brilliant people of how to quiet the noise and find something that makes you feel purposeful. And I feel like there's so much like decision fatigue and exhaustion with the grass is greener and this is how you hack your way there. And at the end of the day, it means sticking with something

that you love and protecting it. But it was just our way of saying, we reached the epitome of success and got lost along the way and found our way back. And this is how we did it. Yeah, kind of the roadmap, if you will. Yeah.

I want to talk about this concept of a day of delight. For our friends at home, it's in chapter two, so you'll get to it quickly. You're welcome. But talk to us a little bit about that, like, where it came from and also what you think changed in your relationship once you implemented it, because I know that that coming so quickly in the book is because you know it's so important for people to get as fast as possible. It was something that we had a mentor, teach us. We did this three-day intensive. with a man who was an absolute genius.

We're very nerdy this way. We like to always self-reflect and optimize. I'm also like I can't wait to get the full list of all of these intensive coaches after this podcast. Thank you. I wasn't. But I remember he said one of these exercises was to go through the week and draw out our absolute perfect week where we're balancing life with work with things that really fill our cup. and he said, try very hard to have a day every week where you are only doing things that fill your cup. The world constantly wants to pressure you to just keep grinding.

And everything on Instagram is going to tell you don't take a break because you're not going to reach the top of the mountain. And I think that's a lie. I think if you can take at least a day a week to do, we literally did this. We wrote out a long laundry list of all the things that we love. mine was like a campfire I like making s'mores I like jumping on a trampoline or going for a while like I wrote out the

strangest funniest funniest cutest things that are very childlike and so did he and so did our children and so on the weekends because we have school and stuff we will take one day and that's all we'll do no work we try not to be on our phones

we try to truly just fill our cups because like we talked about with the athletics if you lose the joy of life why are we doing this in the beginning. Like, why are we doing this at all? Yeah. We deserve to have joy in our beautiful world. And I think a lot of people forget that. It's also, like, harder than I thought it would be to cover the list of the things that we most enjoy doing. It's like so simple. It's like, hey, I want to just sit and listen to music or let me just play guitar or let me like starting a fight.

It's like, it's nothing crazy. It's not like, let's go to Dubai or what it's like, no, it's the things that I most enjoy doing are playing cats. It's like, wow, that is so simple. And yet it's so simple that I never do it. You know what I'm saying? It's like, I know that it's always there. I know that it's like it's in the garage and I'll never do it. Yeah.

To answer the question, like how it changed our life to be, not to be dramatic, but it truly did is like it has become one of our most protected things. It makes it so much easier to get opportunities sent our way and be like, oh, sorry, that falls on our day of delight. So it's like, no, we, we, we. protect that now at all cost. It's our kids' favorite day of the week. It's something that truly fills us back up and gets us ready for the next day. And it gives us something to look forward to. Yeah. It's like, okay, sweet, it's Tuesday. Our day, the lights coming up. And then, yeah.

Yeah. And something that's actually within your reach, to your point. Like, I do think all of us fall prey to that pressure. And you said it, the simplest things that actually fill our cup or the things we don't do because they're just right there. But if you can if you can personify it, you make it the day, you make it a non-negotiable, suddenly you're you're doing all these things that are so simple but they're completely like they're reordering your insides almost. Like it's it's putting so much more in the happiness column in you than you've perhaps been doing for a while because you're on the grind. And I think it's a really interesting way to give yourself a healthy counterbalance to the other positive aspects of what you're chasing, what your dreams are.

You know, you both talk a lot about, especially through sport, learning what mastery is and how it requires a lifetime of consistency. And so if you're going to be consistent for your goals, should also be consistent for your happiness. Like happiness should be on the goal list, right? Yeah. Can I close the loop on something I've been thinking about ever since you said it, which was the, you said you're curious about why is that, is it the packaging or the, like, the news feature of an Olympic gold medal

or a successful acting career? I also think part of it is, you know, like, I think excellence should be celebrated and rewarded and give a notoriety, you know, like, to do. what you have done is incredible and to do what Sean has done. It's like, it's amazing. And like, what a fun thing to see humans do these incredible things. So like, please, yes. But it's also like there's opportunity costs. And everything, everything has a cost to it. And so to make it to the level you did, you had to pay the cost of moving cities, pay the costs of hanging out with your old friends, pay the cost of doing all these other things. And it's like there's always costs.

And it's like, I think what I realized recently is, you know, people talk about compounding in finances all the time. And it's like, oh, sweet. You know, 40 years from now, this is what this could look like here. You know, a penny a day, yada, yada. And it's like, that applies to every other area of life too. So it's like, if you want, I think that that deep feeling that you might not necessarily get with achieving your NFL dream of like, oh, man, okay, I made it, but it still doesn't feel like I thought. I'm still just waking up in my bed, like you said. That can either compound if you're chasing the success, or you could do these little deposits weekly, like doing a day of delight of like, you know what? I know that playing golf might put my NFL career at risk because I'm like, you know, potentially hurting my back

and maybe that's not good, but I really love it. And I think that I can do football longer if I still do these little daily deposits of like joy. Yeah. So I was just thinking about like the opportunity costs as part of what makes it feel so unglamorous when you're the person being glamorized. Totally.

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I don't like, I don't love any sort of elitist structure. like I'm not usually the person on my set who's going to try to like befriend the producer. I'm like over in the corner talking to the camera guys about what lenses they're using. I'm not interested in the game in that way. But I do think there's kind of a conundrum of when you've made it,

you're not supposed to talk about the opportunity cost because then you're not humble, you're not grateful. You know, then you're just being a dick. like, well, no, I want to be a human. And this is my human condition. And, you know, when I speak to young people who want to do what I do for work, I don't lie to them. I'm like, hey, you got to be prepared to not see your family. You got to be prepared to miss every wedding and every baby born. And, you know, you're probably like, if you're working on a show, you are not going to see your family and can you figure out how to structure your life around that will you be the person who

you know is willing to do what we all used to do like in our in our industry they they call the overnights you get to by the end of the week a fraturday because you start working on Friday but you work until midday Saturday and like we we kind of got our fratter days to where we'd wrap by like 5 am. on Saturday morning and I'd have a bagpacked and be on a 620 flight to L.A. Like I'd go straight from set to the airport just so I could go home and like make someone's birthday or have dinner with my parents. And then Sunday morning I'd be on a 6 a.m. flight back to North Carolina. And it was really hard. And like I spent years not sleeping.

And now I'm such, oh, I'm so regimented about my sleep. But like, it was the only way I could navigate the opportunity cost. Yeah. And I am. incredibly grateful and I'm not going to lie that it was hard. And I think we have to get to a point where we're okay allowing people to talk about the full spectrum of experience at whatever level of success or whatever stage of life they're at. It's no different than a mom saying like, hey, I'm having a really hard time right now with my two

toddlers and people are like, but aren't you so happy? And it's like, well, yeah, duh, they're amazing. And also this is hard. and we have to allow, I think, for all of that. And our antidote, too, that always, I don't know, the more and more that your career could ask for, your kids ask for just like, just little delight every now. Yeah. Well, Ann, we speak so much, this is like the whole trajectory of the book

is like exactly what you just said. We live in a world of instant gratification where people just keep preaching, do what makes you happy right now. That's what you deserve. and it's like if you can't take a pause and look at the big picture of where you actually want to go and learn how to have boredom and learn how to work through obstacles and learn how to stick with it when it gets tough and you're sacrificing then you actually will never get to that long-term goal that you want ever because instant gratification is not the way and the opportunity cost is like it's part of it

And our world doesn't like to acknowledge that anymore. And you can't find true beauty if you don't actually work hard for something. I mean, yeah, it's good. Yeah. I think that's really, it's really important to be able to zoom out and think about it in that way. Because time is moving fast no matter what. Yeah. Do you think that that's the sort of practice that you talk about in chapter 9?

you talk about the unknown about how this this sort of momentum that you can work to create is what gives you clarity. Do you think that that zoom out and choice to analyze what kind of life you want to live is what feeds clarity for you both? Yeah, I mean, the unknown, I think of this movie scene from Indiana Jones. I don't know if you've seen that, Sophia. Oh, yeah. it's like he's on this mission and he knows where he wants to go but he hits this point where there's

like this chasm and he's on one side of this cliff and he's trying to get it to the other side and and he's been told that there's this invisible bridge that he has to step onto to get to the other side and it's like okay uh that's like kind of this idea of unknown of of okay i've been told as an athlete that I might have what it takes to make to the next level if I do X, Y, and Z. And it's like, you're stepping into this area where, like, I'm trusting. You know, I am, I'm not sure. I've never experienced this. You know, I've been maybe told by mentors that this is kind of how it goes. But when you're the one in it, like, you don't, you don't know. And it's daunting and it's terrifying. And it's like, you have to step on to that invisible bridge.

And there's certain things that you could do to build assurance in that. But clarity is a, it can be a slippery thing that I think it's almost like a, it's something that can grow. And you could start to see kind of the positive feedback of like, okay, yeah, you know, I didn't understand this at the start, but now that I'm in it for a little bit, like I'm starting to slowly build clarity, but very rarely in my, my life, you know, have I had 100%, oh, yeah, this is exactly where I should go. Like, people talk about whatever, hearing God speak to them. And I'm like, I've never had that

moment. It would be so great. But like, it's, it's mostly been a slow process of building clarity in my experience. Yeah. I think that's, that's the thing. I actually think it's a, such an important process and can also be quite spiritual to realize, oh, I am the captain of my ship. I have to do this. No one else is going to tell me how to do it. You know, I think about it, like we were saying, the world is really heavy today. And I think a lot of people go, well, who's going to fix it? And I'm like, hey, to break it to y'all, we are officially the adults in the room. Like, we have to fix it. We have to steer the ship, you know? And I think, I think that's exciting. I think it's scary. And I think you've touched on something a few times

that feels sort of like the North Star, which is mentorship. Because I think there are necessities for big moments in life where you can look to someone for guidance and where that person in that sort of intergenerational exchange can also look to us for a little bit of hope. Like, we're not quite as jaded. You know, I'm more tired than I was in my 20s, but I am not as tired as my parents.

Yeah. And, you know, I can inspire them to, like, keep it going, and they can give me advice so I don't, it doesn't take me six mistakes to get to where I'm going, Hopefully it only takes like three or four. And I'm curious how the two of you, especially so young, you know, in your lives and in your marriage, started seeking mentorship so intentionally. Because you mentioned this earlier.

We found ourselves surrounded in gymnastics at a very young age and then in the NFL. And then early on in our marriage, we found ourselves surrounded by people who are going through really, really, really hard things in life. Divorces, loss of career, people who were at, you know, the highest level of success who were so depressed. Yeah. We witnessed a lot of heartbreak and a lot of people in very low valleys. And we went through some of them ourselves.

And we had just decided, I think, coming from athletics, we love coaches. I love someone to say, this is your way. way. So we decided very early on to work with therapists and to go find people who are so wise in all of their fields so we could learn from them to hopefully equip ourselves with the tools to be able to traverse these hardships if we were to ever, you know, find ourselves experiencing them. And we, yeah, it was just kind of trying to prepare ourselves. as much as possible. Yeah.

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Available on IHeart Radio. Guys, the book is just so good. Courage to commit is in bookstores now. It's wise. It's thoughtful. I really appreciate that you two decided to do this in this moment. I think it's filled with exactly the kinds of hope and practical strategies that people need.

So very well done to you both. Thank you. I'm curious for each of you, you know, you have found what seems like a really good rhythm in your lives as individuals, as a couple. You are authentic and you are funny online,

which is not always easy in a world, you know, that does feel so consumed these days. But it seems like you're in a good stride. And so with the book out and the baby's doing well and like life feeling solid, I'm curious as you look forward, what still feels like your work in progress? It's funny you say that because I feel like we have had, we've, to be very vulnerable and honest, we have not felt that. So we have felt like it with. the book, I think it's one of the most vulnerable things we've done in our career.

I think we are getting a taste of our own medicine of everything we're preaching, which is this has taken us almost four years to do. And because we live in such an instant gratification world and we are on the gram and we get instant gratification or not from like a post, we have felt more nervousness around the book launch than anything we've done. And so it's been kind of nerve-wracking the past couple weeks and talking about it

and kind of putting into the world everything that we've been working on. So I would say what still feels like a work in progress is very much this. We have been working really hard to this moment

so it's been exciting but has felt very vulnerable the past couple weeks. Yeah. And honestly you've done a great job kind of identifying the paradox that is this topic of commitment where it's like, yeah, like, we're out here preaching stick to it, but like not to everything. And you kind of alluded to it in different words earlier, but we talk about pruning things. Like, you know, you need to rid yourself of certain things of life to make room for other things. And so thus you're naturally not sticking to

things. And so there's a couple different paradoxes where you're like, shoot, how are we going to work through this. And I think we did, I'm really happy with how the book turned out and we like navigated some of those paradoxes to give people practical tips. But for me, I would say that my work in progress, you said we've been married 10 years. And I guess I kind of assumed Sophia, they're like, I, like, I'm like, okay, I know Sean so deeply. Like, we got it. We're in stride. We can coast now. And I just am realizing what a, what a treat it is to like actually never really coast like that's just not part of uh of marriage i don't think or our relationship and it's like honestly it's it's really fun and also i

i didn't expect that you know of i thought he figured it out yeah we got yeah we still i still have things where i'm like i i feel like at 34 i should have resolved this inability to schedule anything. Oh, man. Like, I don't know what the deal is. Or like... Maybe someday, day. Maybe someday.

Or why do I still annoy Sean? So I got a lot of works in progress, Sophia. Yeah. I think, if I may, you know, because I've got almost a decade on you, what I've learned, especially when I talk about, like, you know, wild times a few years ago, people who really think, oh, I can coast. I'll deal with this later. Like, this is the core and it's set.

And so I'll go deal with everything else. And we'll make time for this later. All of those people are people who get divorced. Like, you cannot emotionally, physically, verbally abandon your person or, like, get lazy with them. Like, in the same way that you, you dedicate your day of delight and you don't let other things mess with it. You have to want to dedicate with your person.

And I, what I've learned with, you know, people who've finally gotten it right, I'd like to think that's me, people who've been getting it right for a long time, like the two of you, like you better date forever.

Like, that's your wife, but that's your girlfriend. You know? Because people who get lazy with a spouse, I'm like, best of love to you. I'll be here when she calls me and tells me she's out. And so, like, I'm glad to hear you say that, that you're like, oh, shit. I thought it might get, I thought we might not have to work on this, but the work, like, the work is the delight.

Yeah. Like you two can play catch together forever. And that's incredible, but you have to remember that you have to make time for it. Yeah. People talk about the love languages and it's like, all right, quality time. Let's just say that's your love language. I mean, at 10 years in, we've, Sean and I've had a lot of quality time together. And I kind of thought like there would be a like a container of, you know, all right, we get, we did.

I gave you the quality time. Nope, maybe. I need quality time for the rest of my life. It's more like a, I don't know, a stream. Every year the container starts over. Yeah. You are currently doing 2026 quality time. time.

Yeah. Well, no, it's like every week almost. And it's like, no, it's really good. And this is what you want. Like that. Otherwise, I don't know. It'd be boring in some ways. Yeah.

Well, and we talk a lot about, you mentioned at rhythms. We try to implement kind of unmovable rhythms that protect each category of our life. So even with like our marriage, every Sunday, we will sit down and talk about how the week felt. And that can feel like overkill to some people. but it's like what bucket felt empty to you, what bucket was overflowing with so much goodness and how can I kind of tweak something next week to make you feel more loved?

Yeah. Every week's different. Yeah. We got a good team situation going on. For the record, I do mostly agree with you that if the moms were in charge, everything would be figured out. Hey, good dads are welcome too.

They are. Like, you know, I think we can all agree statistically the men haven't been doing great with all the leadership seats but there are some of you who are excellent who I would like to recruit to our team I think yeah that's the team you're getting you know it's two against one at the moment and the two of us say Andrew's invited I do yeah yeah you under gets the invite you're doing great yeah you you get to you get to come to the matriarchy team you're doing great yeah yeah you got my wheels turning today Sophia, thank you for your thoughtfulness.

This has been so fun, you guys. Congrats on the book. Thank you. I'm so happy for you. I hope we all find ourselves in the same city soon. Please, we would love that. We'll send you that list of coaches too. Will you please?

Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Thanks, you too. Congratulations. I'll talk to you soon. This is an IHeart podcast. Guaranteed human.