Drama Queens - Bring on the Tears ᐧ EP515

Episode Date: September 18, 2023

The girls channel Millie’s experience from this episode and discuss their own real-life experiences of living with boys. There’s a drastic behind-the-scenes story that ultimately ended in tears. Plus, a Peyton and Skills hook-up?!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Hillary, your hair looks so great today. For our listeners, Hillary's got her full curls happening, which I miss seeing. And she's wearing a Whitney Houston t-shirt. Wow. Hey, baby. I hit the Target hard this summer. Target? Sometimes surprises me.

I'm just going to throw it out there. Like sometimes I'm just walking through thinking I'm going to get paper towels and then I see a Whitney Houston shirt and get totally sidetracked. Guys, we'll get into the episode. but what's with the curly hair right now I'm having trouble because mine's going gray too and I feel like it's losing a little bit of its lester but your hair always looks so great when it's curly what are you doing it's never been curlier because I'm not like coloring it I'm not putting chemicals on it and so it's never been curlier and I don't do anything to it anymore I wake up and I put oil in it oil yeah I put way oil in it

and that's it and it's just saving me so much time because with two kids in two different schools and like full responsibilities there and then work responsibilities the amount of time I used to spend blowing it out is just not there right now we might get there one day today's not that day no not that day also I feel like do you feel like post-pandemic aesthetics have changed a little bit where all of the really polished stuff is like, why would you do that? Like, everything's gone a little sideways.

Yeah, we started Zoom meetings and people were still dressing up like they were at work and then eventually it was just full pajamas. Work meetings and T-shirts. I kind of love it, though. Listen, let's just get weird. It's the exact opposite of what this episode was because I laughed so hard at this group of women

trying to take care of babies and also throw birthday parties in high heels and dresses and full outfits on no sleep i am wearing fucking sketchers right now i'm wearing mom sketchers sneakers because that's what you wear when you're parenting your brains out i need to pull out my crocs that's what i was shuffling around in this morning yes birthday parties and heels give me a break those sweet little girls okay what do you think sophia you want to read the uh the intro oh boy guys here we are season five episode 15 life is short this originally aired April 28th, 2008.

God, the era of the fancy short. I would like, I would just like to burn 2008 to the ground. No one did it better than you. The cover of our DVD where you're in the shorts and the Bustier. Iconic. Why? Why did we decide that was Brooks thing? Anyway, not the point.

The synopsis of the episode is that Lindsay returns. Lindsay returns to Tree Hill for Jamie's fifth birthday party, giving Lucas hope for their relationship. I mean, maybe false hope, who knows? Brooke and Peyton prepare for life with a new baby. Meanwhile, Dan tries to work himself back into the lives of his family, ultimately divulging a grave secret to Nathan and Haley. This episode was directed by our very own Paul Johansson.

Yay. I remember Paul directing this one vividly. You do? Don't. Yes. I don't either. There's so many, like, What are the kids call them?

Gifts, memes, whatever they are. There's so many of that montage of us trying to soothe. Yes, that I remember. I just didn't realize it was Paul. What was hilarious is, you know, like we did all of our coverage, like doing the things being hilarious. And then it was Angie's coverage and she didn't want to cry. And it became a problem of how are we going to make this?

baby cry. And like her mom came in. I remember her mom coming in being like, cry, baby. Like, come on. You cry all the time. Why are you not doing it right now? And I remember Paul being like, should I get in there and kind of oogie boogie the situation and started trying to be like scary. And we're like, Paul, no. This is like, this will be a core memory for this baby. It was stressful because she didn't want to cry in that moment. Well, that's what I remember is that she was actually very amused and we were like uh it's not working it's work like it's actually working we're making this baby happy and you and i were like well what the fuck do we do yeah and the idea that you were supposed to scare a baby felt horrible we didn't want to do that did we did we just

like wind up leaving her alone in that crib for a while till she got nervous we ignored her i think we might have had to ignore yeah she just got bored somebody pay attention to me but like making TV so dumb like that it's like yeah it's scripted baby cries right and there's no one that thinks through the process of how you're going to make that baby cry yeah exactly it's like having a dog on set too with the dog trainers that come and they're trying to lead the dog around or make it do a trick and it just will never do it exactly the moment that you needed to they end up like smearing peanut butter on your ear or something no I loved all the kid energy in this episode. Yeah, it was fun. I just wanted to squeeze them. God, they were all so cute.

Jamie being cute with little Angie. There was a lot of kid energy, even with Millie and mouth and skills and all the boys. I loved. Yeah, that was fun. Their storyline might have been my favorite thing in the episode. Yeah, me too. I loved what was happening in that apartment. Maybe that's what it was. It was like, it was all the home situations were figuring themselves out. in this episode like your house haley like things are getting back to normal things seem healthy brooks trying to figure out what her home situation is who can help yeah the two of you in that house with a bit i mean i laughed out loud Hillary coming around the corner i do i want to sleep and your hair and you're just everything about you it was so great you know what i liked is that

it felt like a marriage it felt like Peyton and Brooke were in marriage and like doing the whole newlywed thing of like we're going to figure this out it felt very safe and happy to me yeah i wrote down that i really liked watching us do a buddy comedy like the whole opening sequence it was long the two of us before it moved anywhere and it was so funny to me and i was like oh man this is nice look at us we're not like surviving a stalker or sobbing we're hitting each other we're just laughing he's getting punched. We're having a great time and I like to watch it.

That feels like a movie I would like to see that probably should have been done in the early 2000s, like a female version of, is it look who's talking? What's there, three men and a baby? But it's three, but like bachelorets and just girls that are like in college and five beta Kappa or whatever and they're like,

I don't know what to do with this thing. I didn't realize how scandalous it was to see like a really young chick with a baby. You know what I mean? Like, at the time, I didn't think there was anything weird about it. And watching it now in my 40s, I'm like, oh, my God, who would give a baby to these children? Children.

I would do that. They are children. I loved this, though. Yeah, they didn't send any instructions. Yeah, yeah. They literally handed you a baby in the airport and just walked off. It was just you and this baby. They were like, look.

By the way, not far off, right? Like the universal thing that every single friend, no matter at what stage in their life says when they have a baby, is they just let you take it home from the hospital. They just send you home with this baby and nobody checks on you. And it's like, yeah, it's kind of insane. I told you what the nurse said at the hospital. Did I mention this? After I gave birth, it was the first night in the hospital and they bring out, they roll out the little plastic bassinet. I swear I've said this before.

I'm sorry if I have. They roll the little plastic bassinet and they pull it next to your bed. It's your first night, and they give you that little, it's like a rubber, it looks like a rubber ducky with a nozzle on the end of it. Yeah, the snot squeezer. And she hands it to me. And she's like, okay, good luck, guys, we'll see you in the morning. And I was like, what do I do with this? And she said, well, if she starts sort of choking or gurgling in the middle of the night, you just reach over and like squeeze it and extract whatever's in her mouth out of the with this tube.

I was like, okay. I mean, but I just had a baby. I'm pretty tired. What if I'm asleep and I don't hear her? She goes, oh, well, then she'll choke. Stop! She'll choke and then, like, cough it up. And they're like, no, no, she'll die.

Joy, where did you give birth? New Hanover. Is that new Hanover? Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Joy, that's horrified. That's horrible. It was, I just looked over it.

I looked at Michael. I was like, I'll stay awake. I'll do the first shift. Don't worry. That is not normal. What? Can you imagine saying that, too? But it's true.

So many people, especially when you're just used to having, being around babies, or I guess if you're handing off babies to people all the time, it's just like, there you go. It's no big deal. But Brooke handled it really well. I mean, I loved watching you go through all the roller coaster of emotions in this episode. It was nonstop. You were laughing and then crying and then falling over and then falling asleep and then working really hard and then grossed out and then laughing and crying again. It was all great.

Yeah, I loved it. I thought it was really super sweet. And there was like, as much as I could tell. This was another strike episode where I was like, oh, boy, we could have really done with just, just like a polish on this script. Like the, I thought the device that you brought up Hill, the everyone exploring their home life worked well because we kind of just had to use the locations we knew we'd have and make the best of them. And so this this sort of reversion into childhood with Jamie's birthday party setting the scene and then Brooke and Peyton having this baby. And then the guys trying to figure out how to grow up in their apartment. And Millie saying, no, guys, it's cool.

We can play like kids. Yeah. As much as I, you know, had moments where I was like, oh, my God, when is this episode going to be over? I also really thought it was sweet and fun. And I kind of loved it. I loved the way Mouth sort of wrangled the maturity. And then Millie was like, not so fast. Yeah. Yeah, this won me over this episode. When it started, I was in the same boat. I was kind of like, man, I got to watch a five-year-old's birthday party. Like, why am I watching this on TV? This is not entertaining to be any drama. But it did win me over for sure. And there was so much throwback stuff in this episode that we, the Facebook status mentioned, the iTunes charts, you know, the Macy's. Like, it was all just so, I mean, Macy's still super relevant, obviously. But like, there's so many other things that just felt like a huge throwback that I'd kind of.

kind of started to fall in love with it. And the story did. I agree. It needed a rewrite like a polish, but the story did progress pretty well. Yeah. And even ending up, you know, reminding us all the things of Dan and ending up with Nathan and Dan having that conversation. And I feel like there was a lot that came out of it. It was good. You go from Payton Brooks Place. That's chaos. And then to Mouth's place, which is also chaos, but this whole thing about like Millie's underwear. That was what I was going to say, no. guys gross gross but like very real i mean it is very teenage boy yeah yeah very teenage like 20s boys but gross have you guys ever lived with a bunch of guys yes yes i mean hillary you did with

your brothers obviously well i mean even when i first moved to new york i moved into the dorms and i lived with like eight or nine other girls because the dorms where i went to school were like sweets so it's three bedrooms three girls per bedroom and then you had like the living room and kitchen area. So I went from living with all brothers to like a fleet of women, many of whom I'm still friends with, but it was an environment that I wasn't totally comfortable. So I started dating this much older dude who lived in one of these kind of like mouth junk, furgy skills apartments. And it was all dudes. Some of them worked at MTV with me. They all had their girlfriends come over. But the energy of living with all guys and being like, I'm going to make chili. What are you guys?

I'm going to make banana bread to win you guys over and then getting yelled at because I would leave my hair in the drain. Like those kinds of relationships really informed, I think my marriage now, like living with a lot of dudes is an important life skill. You have to navigate that. Yeah. After college, my parents were crushed. They were like, when will you move home for your first summer?

And I was like, I'm never moving home again. And I moved into. all my best guy friends in college lived in this house together. There were eight of them in a house, like right off campus near USC. Oh, that's so fun. And two of them were moving home for the summer. And so me and one of my girlfriends took their two rooms. So it was two girls and six dudes in a house.

And we had so much fun. But it is. It's like it's a total life lesson. And when I think about, you know, every summer like going to camp and then being a camp counselor, I spent so much time in big groups and, you know, big co-ed groups, but the cabins were always groups of girls. And then there was like groups of other people's daughters that I was responsible for. And suddenly, yeah, I'm living in this house. And thank God I had like one other ally to roll my eyes with to be like, what are these idiots doing? But we were basically like the

camp counselors for these six boys. And we had so much fun. Yes. I love that you were a camp counselor. Oh, yeah, it's my favorite thing. And I wish I'd had that experience. That's so fun. We had that big Supermoon here. And I went with a bunch of friends. Like, we went out to the beach to see it.

It was like, it's the last one until 2037. We were like, we got to do something fun. And we showed up to the beach and I just like got all the bags out of the trunk of the car. She had a clipboard. What are, what's in these Mary Poppins bags? Like, why do you have all this? I was like, guys, being a camp counselor never dies. Never.

I'm prepped and ready. That's what it feels. like though you're right it feels like milly's the camp counselor yeah and i also feel like our culture really kind of um romanticizes this kind of roommate situation like we grew up with three's company yep you know the new girl was on the air forever felicity you know like there's a lot of tv shows about that odd man out roommate situation that make it seem so fun like so fun and i had forgotten that our show was in the mix. I like that we have this little interaction because all of these people living on their own is not realistic. When you are in your early 20s, you're broke and you live

with as many people as possible so you can split the rent 20 different ways. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with

other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I did think that the energy was so, so cute. And when Mouth and Millie come back from their grocery trip and they can't believe what the apartment looks like,

Lisa Goldstein made me do a full spit take with, did you know your couch was brown? I was just so good. And when he opens the cabin and everything, including all the porn starts to fall out, I was like, oh boy. Oh, boy, it was really well done. I wonder if Paul has lived this. since he was the one directing it.

Paul was like, where do I hide my porn? Hmm. Kitchen cupboards. He's definitely lived with a lot of guys. I'm sure he's got great stories about that. Yeah, as an athlete. Yeah. And the skills piece I really like to bring in this element of,

because I kind of have forgotten about that, that he was the one that led Jamie go to the bathroom by himself at the wedding. Yeah. I had forgotten that that was a thing. So I thought that was really nice. That worked, though. Because I think we'd all forgotten, but he didn't. And isn't that real life?

You know, like everyone else is kind of like, what are you talking about skills? But you can tell it's this thing that has been kind of festering or like troubling him. He had a lot of work to do this episode. I thought he was awesome. Yeah. It was so much fun to watch Antoine. And I loved, I loved skills coming to see Peyton at the office. It's like one of those things where you go, oh, yeah, when they just don't know what to do with us and they give two of us a random scene.

But it's so fun. I love those. I love those. Because it's so realistic. This is when they were going to set up Peyton and Skills getting together. Oh, this was it? Because they were bringing Lindsay back and like toe in that, putting that toe in the water. And they had always meant to hook Peyton and Skill.

up. I was told at the time jump that they were going to put us together because it was going to piss Lucas off. Like, what are you doing dating my ex-girlfriend? And it was going to give everyone else be the excuse of like, you've dated everyone's ex-girlfriend. What are you talking about? You know, like, there was a whole trajectory mapped out. And I'm not entirely sure why they didn't do it. It might have been a network note. It might have been an availability thing. But it very much was intentional to start putting us together and like champion one another. Wow. And then when did it switch over to Barbara? When she showed up looking hot. Like a snack. Guys, yeah. Barbara is so hot and so funny. And why do the writers have her banging a clown? What was that? This, this was that scene with

her, no, that's exactly it. The scene with her on her knees with the balloon getting blown up in her face. It felt, it was such a far cry from the Deb that we met in the beginning. And so far even from the Deb that was in rehab, like, it just was a completely bizarre. Yeah. I get that she's playful and, you know, being goofy, but I don't know. That was weird. Well, I made a note of it. I just, I literally wrote, I hate this so much, but damn, Barbara commits and makes it funny.

Like, Barbara is so funny. She's capable of doing anything. But this is one of those things where you look back on an era and you know what wasn't being talked about in public discourse yet. And you just go, man, this did not age well. And it's a testament to her as an actor that she could make it so comical. But like, that they made that man dress up as a clown and blow up a giant flesh-colored dick balloon in her face.

Yeah. And she had to just be charming and fernic. funny with her tits out, I was like, I, I wanted to, like, crawl in a hole and die and give her a high five for literally being a woman who you cannot phase with anything. She's like, oh, you think I'm going to be bothered? Watch how funny I make this. And I was like, hate that you had to do it. Very impressed that you could. If it were like a pack of chicks, right? Like, if I'm with you guys or I'm with my girlfriends from high school and a clown blows up a flesh-colored dick balloon in front of us, we all react for each other.

right like we like maybe make a pervy joke for each other right but the fact that deb's doing it alone with him for his benefit i'm like no you do it for your girlfriend's benefit right and she doesn't have like a person there but what i liked is that she went from doing that like pervy thing that was totally kind of weird to dan knocking on the door and she flipped back into responsible Deb, in a blink. Yes. That switch happened so fast. That's why it was, for me, it was such a jarring moment, the scene with the clown, because

she did commit so much to it. And because that scene works, if it's in The Hangover, that scene works in a movie that is where it's, that's what's set up and that's who the character is. It didn't work as Deb, because that's not who she is. But she made it work as just showing off what an amazing actress she is. it still didn't, for me, it wasn't like meshing with the character, but she did absolutely the best that anybody could have done with that. But the way that she walked out that door and immediately flipped on

and turned on the Deb that we knew from the beginning. Damn, she's so good. Also, guys, I have to do my honorary mention right now. Now? Right now. It's right now. It's happening. I goffawed and, like, did a real spit take when, when Deb says, be careful, Bucco, he's done time. And Bucco says, haven't we all with the smile on his face?

That was so amazing. I died. I was like, what show am I watching? But like, yes, I love that this clown was like, I'm going to go protect this hot grandma. I don't know who this guy is outside. Also, casually mentions he's done time too. And anybody like balloons. Let's go back to the kids.

That was just the right amount of comedic relief I needed in a Dan Scott moment. Agreed. Was this the precursor? This is like the jumping the shark precursor to the dog eating the heart. Yes. Because he starts talking about the HCM. Yeah. I feel like this is them testing the ground.

Like, oh, how much? Girl, they've been done testing for episodes now. They're like, can we write ourselves in? Can we have Deb hook up with a clown? can we have a dog eat a heart it's all like a slow trickle to crazy town yeah slow trickle to crazy town that sounds like a good name for the episode if it's not flesh colored dick balloon oh my gosh colored dick balloon is why didn't they pick like a like a green one or like a purple one even could have been suggestive because they just needed to make it so clear can you imagine the

like mom that was watching that with her 13 year old daughter Yep. Do you know what I mean? I had the same thought. Yes. Horrifying. I thought we could trust this show. Honey, go get some popcorn.

Come back later. And that I guess is part of it, right? Is looking back, this is one of those episodes where the swings feel so big. Like the ick of the dick balloon and everybody touching Millicence's underwear. And then the swing to the sweetness of like the friendships, Brooke and Peyton together. Haley and Nathan having the chemistry. Jamie kissing that baby's head, you know. Children's birthday party.

It's so sweet on the one hand and then so totally disgusting. And I'm like, what was happening? I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. I feel like two episodes got written and then they just cut, push through them together, scene to scene. Okay, wait, I do have a question. And Hillary, you might know because this was y'all's scene when you and Antoine were

together and you were giving the updates and talking about how Mia's number number two on iTunes was was Kate on iTunes at this point like had she just released an album does anybody remember were we trying to drive traffic to her stuff like I think for sure we were always trying to boost her numbers because when we shot the library episode remember they were using footage from that for her music video yeah yeah and so her music video might have just been released. Like, she might have just had the song released into the wild. Because when we were shooting the library episode, I remember her and our boss,

and he was, like, picking out which picture was going to be the album art for her release. And so I feel like there was so much work. How many episodes ago was that at this point? Like four or five? I think that was 509. And this is 515. Yeah, so that times out. Yeah.

You know, if they were doing all that legwork right then, things would have dropped about now, which, maybe, or prepping. I wonder if they ever thought about just using her name. I wonder if it was confusing at all for the audience that she was releasing music on the show as Mia Cattalano, but then her own stuff was out as Kate. Speaking of real names, I loved in the episode when skills, comes to Nathan and Haley. And you called him Antoine.

I loved that. Oh, yeah. It just made it so sincere because his character's name is also Antoine. But we never use it. He was, yeah, it was sincere because he was being really honest and vulnerable. I guess it just seemed like it would have been strange

to be like, oh, skills, don't worry about it. Yeah, that was sweet. I was happy to see those scenes come together and I'm really looking forward to seeing skills be around with Barbara. Like, this is the juicy stuff I'm super excited to get into. The two of them is so fun. I don't feel like, are they foreshadowing it in this episode? Because it's the other two dudes who see Barbara when they're all like sucking helium out of the balloons.

And it's Furgy and Junk being like, I'd do her. I would marry Deb. I would do, you know, like. Yeah. I love how age-appropriate they are. All the other characters are doing shit that is just out of the realm of reality. Junk and Fergie, those are our real-time dudes. Yeah, even the way they freeze watching Millie when they come around the corner

and she's doing Pilates and they just do not know what to do with a woman exercising in front of that. And using their TV when they were about to watch their own show. Yeah, like, and it's not creepy. and it isn't they're not being salacious they just do not know what to do and she knows they're uncomfortable and it makes her uncomfortable and everyone just sort of freezes because no one has ever interacted this way before i loved it it made me laugh so hard them bumping into shit as they're leaving the room yeah like no one told them to do that they just did that like into the bike back it was so great i love cullen's crossover into outer bank

because I don't care that the characters have different names. In my mind, junk is the cop on Outer Banks. Yes, he grew up to be the cop in Outer Banks. Every time I see it, I think that too. Yeah. Good for him, man. That's exactly where Junk should be right now. Just dealing with some meddling kids.

Well, and it's nice that the boys in their little container, like all those boys get to be silly and young. And like we were talking about earlier, finding their way and a little bit, broke and figuring out what their life is in this apartment and two of them get to be ridiculous and one of them you know mouth is trying to be less ridiculous for his girlfriend and then you've got skills who's such a good uncle and so playful but he's also dealing with something a little heavy and it's nice it's nice that he gets a lot of comic relief in his group of friends yeah It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. well let's talk about the heavy shit then because i thought haley was so great in this episode in these scenes with luke where okay i'm going to play kate you i'm going to play kate you i'm going to tell you what you want to hear i'm going to tell you it's fine that moment where you're like stop it i'm your best friend was fantastic i loved that thanks and i loved that you guys you made it into something like it could have just been a scene in a corner at a party, but the fact that you, the two of you and Paul staged it with you helping him get ready

and being like, what do you do? Who cares if she likes blue? Like she doesn't like you, dude. And you're trying to give him these like honest answers and he just won't hear it. And you kind of, without shaking him by the shoulders, you shake him by the shoulders and remind him of who you are in his life and what you're there for. I just, I loved it. It felt so real.

I remember shooting those scenes. I have, for some reason, I have a lot of memories of the scenes in Lucas's bedroom in the house. I just felt like, Chad and I just got on really well. And so it was easy on set to be able to dive into the Lucas and Haley BFF energy. and I had missed it because I spent so much time with James, who I love, and it was great, but I did miss being able to really jump into other people's stories and to go back to the beginning because I spent most of my time in the first season with Chad, and then everything progressed from that point forward.

So it was always nice to go back and just revisit that best friend energy. That was the moment in the screen test of when I won the part, and I knew I had gotten it because we had such great chemistry in that screen test, it was total brother-sister energy. And I didn't get to do a lot of that, I feel like, on the show because of how quickly things progressed with Nathan and Haley. So those scenes were always really fun.

And he knew his room so well. He knew the set so well that he always had... You know, it's funny, I think we're both kind of proppy actors. I'm probably a little bit more of. proppy actor, which is a downfall of mine. I think I lean on it too much. But he, he knew where everything was in that room. And he always knew how to, what to go to, what to grab onto, what to pay attention to. And yeah, it was, it was fun just moving around that space with him. And especially with Paul, because he was our family. So it just, those scenes always felt like family. But I did like

the chemistry between Lucas and Lindsay in this episode. I have to say, like I kind of go back. and forth between them, where I'm like, no, it's not right. It's not right. Lucas and Peyton forever. And then this one, I was kind of like, oh, Lindsay, I mean, maybe it could work. Lindsay and I were styled hair and makeup wise so similarly that sometimes I get confused at who I'm looking at. And that's a weird thing to admit. Yeah. We're both wearing like the eyeliner on the lower rim and our hair is styled very similar and our coloring is. your hair color is so similar yeah and we stare at people the same way we're just always like lurking over when lindsay walks in and like her and Lucas are locking eyes and then looking away over the group of children like that's a very Peyton Lucas thing to do yeah and so I'm just confused who I'm looking at and so if he ends up with Lindsay like I'm okay with it it's like I always thought she was styled a little bit more New York businesswoman, I guess at the beginning, but maybe she relaxed a little bit more into,

but you were also a little more dressed up for your job at the record label. So I guess it's really more like the hair and makeup. It's just, it's, um, it'd be one thing if he like started dating like a zany redhead, you know, like clearly we're different. But when you've got two chicks that have just a really similar aesthetic. Yeah. Um, and they're, and they're saying that, scene with Peyton and Lindsay where it's like, hey, I'm sorry. And it's like, no, really, it's not your fault. I could have said yes. That was such a big dick energy move from her. I love it. It was so good. When she said that to you, I went, I know. Like I gasped out. I loved it. Oh my God. She delivered it so well too.

Because it wasn't, she didn't do it like a hole. She really was like, it's all good. I mean, it's not, it's not all about you. But it's okay. I'm still. I loved it. So subtle. So subtle and so sharp. Peyton needed that. It's like, baby, you're not even a factor here. But thank you. Oh, thank you. Go on. Go back to the party. Now, I appreciated that Peyton was apologizing and just, I don't even know exactly what you were apologizing for. I thought about that. You know what Peyton did? She put a splinter in something. And you can live with a splinter. Splinter is not going to kill any of. it's not going to really hurt anyone but it's irritating she added an irritant to their relationship that had it not shown up maybe everything would have been fine maybe it wouldn't yeah you know but she just she put a splinter in there but the truth is Lucas is the one that allowed the splinter to exist there well he didn't still if he didn't still love Peyton if he wasn't still thinking of that as a possibility there's easy ways to just just

eliminate that from your relationship. I mean, if he wasn't so invested in something else, like he still has a foot in the relationship with Peyton clearly. He's got the freaking ring he proposed to you with in the sock drawer. Like, dummy, he only proposed to her because she found it. Like, when you think about those things, it gets so uncomfortable. And what I appreciate about it is, A, it gives us great drama as an audience. B, it does give you. It does give us some sort of juvenile behavior that you need when all your 21-year-old characters are like writing bestsellers and launching billion-dollar companies. Like,

wear and fancy shorts. Yeah. Like, please let us do some dumb childish stuff. Yeah. But I think that's part of what makes it complex. And in a way, I sort of felt like Peyton was apologizing for the fact that her and Lucas still had this stickiness. and Lindsay really owned it

and was like, it's fine, it was my choice. And I was like, oh boy, I was not prepared for that. Oh, boy. She's so mature. She's like the most mature out of every single one of us. Of all of us. Somebody gave me a baby and she is still more mature. By far.

But then Haley gets Peyton to admit, she's like, do you love Lucas or do you just love the idea of him? And Peyton for the first time is like, yeah, both. Like, I love the idea of what we could have been. Yeah. You know? Those ideas are hard to let go of.

They are. I just don't know why we're doing all this work to have patent detach just for them to end up together. Like, this episode felt like a lot of, like, well, I love them. I'm stalking them on the internet. But I'm going to make some big admissions here. I just feel like they did that all season. Like, I'm still mad about the fact that you and I had to shoot a scene.

scene where I looked at you while you're crying over the love of your life and I go, I'm going to ask him to be my sperm donor. Like, what? That was the jump the shark moment. It really was. It lasted for one episode. We never talked about it again. Here's a deal. The fan base is all like, we don't remember that. We don't remember you physically asking him. And so there has been a lot of speculation like, are we reading into things? No. Is it possible she was just telling him, I'm going to adopt a baby? And he was saying, are you sure? No, she says, I want to have a baby with Lucas. And then there's a scene that cuts in a couple episodes ago.

I say it to Hillary. And then a couple episodes ago, there's a scene that cuts in to an episode with me and Chad mid-conversation. And he's like, whoa. And I'm like, just think about it or whatever I say. And then it just went away. So it's like they're setting up this whole thing for you where you're like, maybe I don't really love him.

Maybe it's the idea of him. Maybe it's high school nostalgia. and then you're going to be together forever. Like, what is going on? Well, and they're doing so much work right now with Brooke and Lucas playing house in this episode. Yeah. Which also feels super weird.

They didn't know what they wanted. They really didn't. Because we spend the whole first act of the episode with Peyton and Brooke playing house together, and then that's not good enough. Brooke then has to go and get help from Lucas in order to get her work done and, like, get the baby to sleep and stuff.

that felt a little bit weird but also we're setting up the whole like which girl is Lucas gonna pick situation maybe it's all just leading up to that was it was it ever really a question though if Lucas and Brooke would end up together I mean I think maybe in the first couple of seasons

when they were dating it was but now it's back to like friend energy it just doesn't although I don't know maybe that's just because in retrospect I mean that's the same Dawson and Pacey and Joey thing where you know was constantly back and forth what's it going to be well and in their conversation this episode she asks him would

you do anything different in high school and he says i i would i would appreciate things or i would not take things for granted yeah i would appreciate things that i'd taken for granted meaning like her like that's what we're alluding to i don't know i like them playing house used It does have that Felicity Ben and Noel energy or the Pacey Dawson Joey thing just trying to figure out where do I fit. But Lucas is so, it's funny being the age that I am now looking back and thinking,

what a mess this boy was, that he was so confused about who he was that he was just bouncing around in his emotions between these three girls constantly. What do I want? Who do I want to be with? It's so selfish and just childish. Well, if he's getting to play house with Brooke

and he's getting to play professional with Lindsay and like kind of fulfill those needs with those two chicks, I don't necessarily know what he's getting out of like the Peyton thing. I'm all for it. The Peyton thing could be just the idea of what was, what used to be. And do I really want to let go of the possibility of how romantic, especially as a writer, how romantic it is to fall in love with your first love and go through all this and then come back together and have it work?

I think that's a really appealing storyline, personal storyline in the mind of a writer for their own life. So I would think that that's sort of what he's getting out of the Peyton thing. Sophia, did they make you think that you guys were like back on the path after that whole playing house scene? No. No, they were always really clear by this point. But I think because there was so much energy around like, you know, you and I and the love triangle was so good for business.

And there was so much like, remember, this was the era of like those message boards. There was so much like Team Brooke versus TV. Where I was like, well, Team Brooke and Team. Rick and Peyton are on each other's team. Right, right, right. The boy has to earn one of them. But there was so much about trying to please the fan bases. And so there was a lot of yo-yoing, at least as I was aware of it, that was very strategic, where it was like, we're going to make everybody think you guys have best friend energy not dissimilar to Lucas and Haley.

We'll put Lucas and Brooke in that category. And then people will say it's because they're in love. And then people will say he can't be with Lindsay because he's in love with Peyton. And, like, they really wanted to play that up. Like, who is Lucas going to end up with? Poor Chad. I know. And to your point, Joy, like, sort of, there was a lot in this episode that felt like it referenced our early seasons in the dynamic.

And, like, I think they really wanted to get back to that, like, Willie or Woney with us from season one. I mean, but for him, was he ever vilified? Like, I know, like, the Brooke fans hated Peyton and the Peyton fans were like, God damn it, Brooke. Get out of the way. Was Lucas ever in trouble with the fan base? I don't think so. I think they all just loved all that brooding. Well, here's what I'll say.

Chad was always great with kids. Seeing him with the baby in this episode was handsome. Like he, yeah, I like, you know, even when like Peyton and Lucas have their baby together that day, you know, when we would shoot stuff with the baby. I was just like, wow, you are good at this. How many younger siblings does he have in real life? He's got a bunch of siblings. Aren't there four of them? I don't know what the... I know he had like a little sister. So like the little girl thing, he was already good at. And I liked seeing that baby just smile at him. You know, there were girls at home that were like, what I wouldn't give to be baby Angie sitting on his lap right now. I did love that, though,

seeing Brooke and Lucas just being friendly and helping each other out and yeah yeah that's hard to be young and have a new baby suddenly thrust on you and then to have a man who's willing to be nurturing and show up and help out is lovely well and to have a friend who can be supportive and I thought it was so sweet you know the the nerves I remember that line asking him like does everyone know more about babies than me which made me giggle because I was like you know I took care other people's kids to like pay my bills so i was like it's funny to have to play a person who doesn't know what to do with the baby yeah and you know it was kind of cool that the lucas character then talks about what it's like to have a little sister born when you're 18 um you know nia

and i talk about that a lot my best friend has younger siblings who were born when she was a teenager and she's she always jokes like yeah well what it's like to be the first pancake that's like a little misshapen and a little book like your young parents don't know like your young parents have no idea what they're doing and then like when they're older and they have their lives figured out and they have this next wave of kids they're like yeah we're pros at this um and i don't know it i love the dynamic of somebody being like yeah no because i have a sibling but essentially i'm an uncle and it was sweet and in the same way that i liked watching Haley and Lucas. I liked watching Brooke and Lucas. I like seeing these strong

friendships in dynamics that, you know, let's be honest, on teen dramas, usually when you got a boy and a girl on screen, it's romance and it's refreshing to see platonic friendship. Yes. Yeah, he's not playing anything suggestive, right? Like, he could have. He seems like he's really trying to do the right thing. Like, he's trying to stick the course with Lindsay. and really commit to it. When if he's feeling so lonely because he's in that house like he begged that chick

to spend the night. Please keep the key. Keep the key. He said, this is your home and she puts it on the dresser. That was that hurt.

It hurt. And the great way that Paul directed the misdirect, her walking in with that big overnight bag I was like, what's happening? Yeah.

What's going on? And she was just coming to get the rest of her shit. I was like, oh my God. Telling you, she could have said yes. And then coming in with that empty bag to pack up, I was like, Lindsay. Yeah, she's really showing everybody who's boxed this episode. She's out. She's out. And sitting in an empty house after you've been rejected is a terrible feeling.

You know, Lucas was like, that baby, this baby can stay all week. Y'all just want it. Guess what, Brooke? I got a key. I'll build you a crib. You want a key? spare keys right here please stay i had it made for you today did you i love it i love it no that's a that's a sweet energy i thought the family stuff was really sweet i loved seeing lucas and nathan

talk to each other in this episode at the birthday party and just kind of like confide in one another where it's like i have best friend status and i have husband status there's just a real camaraderie there that makes the Dan stuff really pop because it's like all of these people love each other and they're setting a boundary with this guy as a unit and it's still hard. Yeah. Sad to see him tell his son,

I have six months to live and have Nathan leave. And yet, what else was he going to do? It's the boy who cried wolf. Like he's just burnt all the bridges. Nobody believes Dan at this point. No. Can I say it? He's never looked better.

Like, evil man with this haircut and this tan. Like, Dan Scott has never looked better. I loved it. He looked like he's got six months to live. No. No. And I thought there was a moment where I thought Deb was going to open that door and be like, hey. What's up?

And she didn't. Good for her. I'm a weaker woman than Deb. But him offering Nathan his childhood sanctuary and Nathan rejecting it is a big metaphorical decision. I liked that he was like, I'm not going to give my son the same childhood that I had. I refuse. Well, and on that sort of theme of nostalgia, Dan giving Jamie. Nathan's first jersey he's really trying to pull Nathan back into these happier times childhood

we could go back and Nathan's just not taking the bait and it's really it's really nice to watch you know he's really standing in his fatherhood and his manhood and just saying I'm not going to be like you yeah I'm not going to let you continue to to take advantage of me. I mean, it's been just doing it for years and years and years. Yeah.

It's to the point on the show now where we've just, after watching these episodes so much, I'm like, I don't believe, I don't even believe him. How do we even know it's true? Yeah. And even if he goes,

he only feels bad when it affects him when it's, you know, he's just totally incapable of empathy. The thing that wrapped all of this up really nicely, for me and that I loved watching through the whole end of the episode was actually the conversation that Brooke and Lucas got to have together. Them being friends, to me, teed up everyone's sort of ending montage because she asks him, you know, is this how you thought our lives would turn out? Do you ever, do you ever want to go back? Would you do it differently? And he gets to

admit, you know, I think we have to work through all this stuff. And like, that's such a theme that for whatever reason, I find myself exploring in a lot of conversations with friends right now. Like, no matter how hard things have been, I wouldn't change anything. My friends are like same. Wouldn't change anything to get to this point. And then freaking Adele kicks in with hometown Kelly. Yeah, what the heck. What a sink we got. And then everyone is. is in this place that they need to be, that they've worked to get, however hard it's been to get here. And you see all these lovely things happening, people being in these good zones, the three of you as a family, you know, Mouth and Millie and the guys and Lucas and Angie and Brooke and this new friendship. And like, it goes through all this stuff.

And then Dan talking about hometown glory gets shut down by the son who doesn't want to be like him. his work working through all this stuff, like Lucas said, has been to be a different man. And I was like, okay, all my criticisms for this episode out of the window, I am into this ending montage. I'm here for it. I felt like they wrapped it up in a way that I really got what we were trying to say to people. Yeah. Yeah, me too. Adele. How did we get that Adele song? Wait, Was she, was she Adele when we got that song or was she, did she have an album? Was this before 21 came out? I mean, this was right at the beginning. She was just a baby. Yeah. I think her album probably came out in 2008. It's crazy. Crazy to think. Amazing that we got that. I know I was like, that voice. Wait. I was like, is this happening right now? This is like when somebody said, you know, oh, we've got this great new artist. We want to put it on Wentree Hill. We need some placements on TV. Have you heard of

this album called 19, like, excuse you. Yeah, it did. It did. It came out in 2008. Love it. Oh, boy. Lindsay Wolfington. That's my honorable mention, since we're throwing him out here. Yeah. Adele is my honorable mention, for sure. I'm going to go with Barbara for this one because I just think she she commits like nobody else. She's so good. I'm raising my hand and saying I got to actually do a tie. the Adele sink is big and for me the the platonic friendship energy i really enjoyed because you got to do it joy and so did i and so did milly yeah and milly did with the boys that's a really good point less one-on-one but as a group and payton with skills yeah you're right god yep and haley with skills i loved it there was just so much good yeah i really love it it just adds a vibe like not

everything has to be romance all the time. And I love it. Yeah, man. I'm into all of that. I mean, look, overall, I liked this episode. Yep. I thought I had some dick jokes that I wasn't crazy about, but what doesn't? You know?

Especially in 2008. Yeah, 2008. We're going to look at it through that lens. I'm obsessed. It may look different, but Native culture is very Live. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing

for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore. or her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

All right, we have a listener question. Yeah, what is it? This is from Melissa. Hi, Melissa. Why do they have Jamie's birthday in the middle of basketball season? But Haley went into labor on graduation day. Girl! Someone's been paying attention.

Yeah. That is. We could have used you in the writer's room, Melissa. Yeah, where were you in 2008? Melissa? Yeah, that doesn't make any sense. No. Yeah.

No, that's it, we, we cannot answer your question with anything reasonable, no good excuses. Writers strike. Yeah. I guess. You know what they do for my daughter's kindergarten? She's five. Jamie's five. Is that all the summer birthdays celebrate half birthdays because no one's around in the summer.

Yeah. For parties. That's literally the only thing I can think of to tell you, Melissa. Is that it's his half birthday. It's not his real birthday. That's all I got. It's his unbirthday. A very unhappy birthday to you.

I'm in. I like you. Should we spin a wheel? I want to. Oh, Lord. Who's most likely to go viral on TikTok? All right. I've got an answer.

Because we don't see her. And I think it's a missed opportunity. I think Lucas's little sister, Lily, being like a remote kid, is all about, like, TikTok life. Yes. Especially because she's, like, in her early 20s now. You know, she's doing all those little silly dances where she's, like, tapping her hips and clapping her hands and shit. And especially being a kid, to your point, who grew up, when you said remote, it made me think about, like, her life traveling with these fancy parents. Like, you know, she's probably like a modern era.

Like, Bindy Irwin meets Emily in Paris. Yeah. Like, she has an interesting life for people to follow on the internet. Yeah. And, you know, she's Karen's kids, so she's probably a really nice person. Yeah. Remember Karen would always say, like, dorky mom shit? Like, I can only imagine Karen's TikTok assessment.

Oh, my God. Like, I'll do a dance with you. Sure. Laying it on real thick. Does TikTok in real life? Because I don't have TikTok. So I don't know who of our friends is on there. I mean, Barbara, Barbara's daughters. Oh, yeah. I don't know who else. I mean, Grace, who played baby Jenny, made me do a TikTok video with her when we were at one of the conventions. It was like her and a bunch of the other young actresses for like, let's do a TikTok dance.

And I was the old person being like, I'll stand in the back. I'll clap for you. All right. Well, if you guys are making TikTok videos about Drama Queens, make sure you tag us because I don't know how to do it. So I'm glad you are. Well, come back next week, everybody. The next episode's going to be Season 5, Episode 16. Crying won't help you now. Ooh, can't wait to see what happens then. That makes me nervous. Sometimes the titles I go, oh boy, what are we in for? Yeah. We'll find out next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at

Drama Queens, O-T-Harendh, or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Chearing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion, but you'll tough girl.

You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

This is an IHeart podcast.