Drama Queens - Chchchanges... • EP220

Episode Date: May 2, 2022

What if One Tree Hill were a sitcom? Would we have loved it just the same?! Is there anything you want to change about Haley, Peyton or Brooke? Joy, Hilarie and Sophia reveal a thing or two they would have liked to be different about their characters. Hilarie shares her most embarrassing moment. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Guys, this is one of my favorite things

about being able to do our job from home is that we can still be cool. Spend time with our family, quality time. Hillary's got George on our lap right now and you are tuned in to our households. Right now, we just finished watching episode 20, lifetime piling up, air date May 10th, 2005. Sophia, give us a synopsis.

What happened in this episode? Okay, Joy, I'll take it away. While Nathan is unconscious in the heart, hospital after his car accident at the crash. No, after his car accident at the track with Uncle Cooper, he has a dream sequence of an alternative life where the roles are completely switched. Lucas is the cocky jock with Peyton, while his parents, Karen and Dan, are married. Nathan's BFF is Haley, and his mom, Deb, runs her own cafe, which is actually a bar called Deb's Den. The boy's rivalry

comes to a head while they compete for a spot in the elite basketball camp. High Flyers. Woo! You guys, we've had so many stinker episodes in a row. Like, so many stinkers. It's been a bit. Oh, man.

It's a hard thing to cover week to week. But this one felt like digging out of the hole. It was like, what can we do to get away from this, like, awful you know, subject matter? What are you talking about? George,

you know what she's asked? It's a very pertinent question, which is all of our listeners want to know. What are you talking about? We're talking about two brothers that play basketball. That is weird. It was a weird episode. You nailed it.

But you're right. That's the thing. It broke us out of the mold of the cycle that we were in of trying to solve all these other problems and just kind of shook it all up, which it was super weird to see. But I loved it. I was really excited.

I loved it. It was nice because it, the dream sequence gave us the opportunity to get out of a rut. And it just felt a little bit like freedom. And one of the things that I loved was that it was a, it was a commentary on circumstance, on environment, on who people might be given certain opportunities or lack thereof. And then you started to see certain things that were the same. Paton's strength and her wisdom, you saw Brooke in that, you know, beginning of season one, looking for male validation space, you know, going after it with Nathan rather than Lucas. And the thing I really loved was seeing that no matter what their circumstance,

Nathan and Haley had chemistry that was undeneged. Oh, my God. Undeniable. I felt that too. I was watching it. Finally, as an impartial observer and was really amazed to see that because sometimes you just, I mean, I guess I have just wondered watching the episode, is the chemistry really there or is it just because of the scenario that they've both been thrust into? Because the writers write them well together, like maybe that's just it. The music choices, the way it's lit.

Is it all just emotional manipulation? But to see Nathan and Haley, any way you slice it, those two have chemistry. way more than Lucas and Haley ever did. So that was kind of fun to see. Yeah. And I loved that the writers, and I mean, what a testament to Mark Perry, you know, coming from the Wonder Years.

There were Wonder Years elements in this episode. For sure. And this classic love story of our show, which Nathan and Haley are, the way they nodded to it with the bracelet, a completely new way, but that bracelet still winds up on her wrist and he gives it to her.

Yeah. I was like, oh, they're smart. I see what they're doing. It was so good. I like it. It was really the whole first season just shoved into one episode, wasn't it?

Yeah. Well, the way that you two talk to each other in the classroom, that was the scene that I was hot for, because I've seen, like, Haley and Lucas talk to each other in the classroom, and it is platonic. Yeah. And you and Chad were so good at creating a believable, strong, platonic friendship. You could not do that with Nathan.

Like, there are freaking fireworks going off around you, too, and you're being so cute with each other, and you're not forcing it. It's not like you're flirting with it. No. But get it. That's cool. Get it. And I also feel like it's a testament to the two of you as actors, because, listen,

the hints for in the script, he still gives her the crackerjack bracelet. Yeah. Deb says, you two are going to wind up married someday, and he's like, oh, mom, we're friends. you know there there's there's hints that nathan and haley are undeniable and so whereas it was always very clear that haley and lucas were going to be friends and it was important that that platonic line wasn't crossed you and james as performers had all the nathan and haley magic that you could put underneath this alternate reality and and the writing supported it and And it's so fun to watch you both playing different versions of these humans, but keeping that energy going.

As a fan, you know, we have enough distance now. We're watching the episode as fans for the first time. And as a fan, I'm like, it's still the kids. It still hits. It just wasn't until Sophia said it that we got to watch all of those iconic moments between Haley and Nathan, but without the question mark of, is he? he gaming her because oh that's true we had to wonder like is he gonna hurt her yeah and and so we couldn't really dive into our feelings because we had to prepare ourselves in case it went wrong and this go round we got to really celebrate it because we knew like oh my god they've been best

friends since their babies like it was a nice it was a comfortable do over that's so true um i really loved watching brook i liked seeing seeing back to like season one brooke it was fun because i love seeing where brook has progressed now and um i also love the sort of geeky brook uh putting together shards of paper yeah it's so fun i feel like that's so you in a beautiful mind yeah totally that's so you sophia 100 but it was fun to see season one brook how did you feel about that when you were filming it do you remember You know what's so crazy? I kept saying, for all our friends at home, as we were watching this episode, I was like,

what is this episode? I've never seen this episode. I don't remember whatever was happening when we were filming this, you know, which makes sense because at the end of the season, everything's always so crazy. And episode 20 was probably the last one that aired while we were still shooting. So, of course, we didn't get to see it. I didn't remember any of it. And I was like, am I in this episode?

What do I do? And I just didn't know anything. And then, oh, my God. And then Brooke Davis walks in on Nathan Scott in the shower. And I was like, oh, no, I remember this. I just remember James and I being like, oh, come on, man. We were both so mortified. But the physical comedy of it was so funny that we wound up having like a hilarious

time. But, you know, we were both in like those weird, ugly, like, onesy things that make you look naked, but you're not. And you're just like, I've never looked like more of a creep than I do in this moment. And we wound up just laughing all day. That's great. Oh, God. And then I had to walk by Paul just like, oh. The look on her mouth's face. Oh, my gosh, but talk about Paul in the letterman jacket. Hillary was dying when we were watching. You guys. Okay, look, I still have my Letterman jacket from high school, because of course I do. And I'm a hoarder. And, you know, if I ever, like, go to promote, like, my high school or a fundraiser from my high school, I might pull it out.

But there is zero possibility that I'm going to wear it on a night out in town just as, like, my coat. And to see Dan Scott roll up on the river court. It's reminding everybody that he used to be the stud. in the high school. Oh, my God. No, it's like, you big fucking nerd. It's painful.

And you know what kills me is it feels like a device because they were trying to emasculate Paul in this alternate universe. You know, Dan Scott is this weak man and they just couldn't do it.

Paul is such a powerful man. So they were like, put him in the Letterman jacket. It don't make him look like a loser. And he just looks like a big strong man in a kid's coat. It's, none of it works. It made me appreciate the way things are on our show. Do you know what?

Me too. Oh, yeah. I remember Chad and I, I do remember us having fun in the convertible the day that he was playing like bad Chad, you know? And he was having fun getting to do this other thing. Because the mythology about the origin of our show is what we've all discussed before. that Mark Schwann had originally wanted Chad to play Nathan. And there was like a mix-up and the studio wanted Chad to play Lucas and whatever happened, happened.

I thought Chad was the one who wanted to play Lucas because he had been playing sort of bad boys and so he wanted to break out of that mold. That was my understanding. Yeah, but, you know, what the creator, with the writer, what the producers want and then what the studio wants and then what the actor wants are like oftentimes. Not the same things. So seeing him in that role that some people in our little group originally thought he was destined for is weird. It's so weird. Because he's like soulful, but he's good at being a dick. As he inches towards James's legs, I believed it.

I was like, I know that guy. Yeah, for some reason, because he's so convincing as that. um anti antagonist as the villain character it felt like if the roles had been switched it would have been harder for me to believe that Nathan had a change of heart and was softening i don't know why if chad played nathan it would have been harder played nathan based on what we just saw in that episode oh interesting i don't know i don't know that's what that's what i was thinking when i was watching i was like i don't know if i would have bought it as much because i like chad starting in that zone Lucas of the soft-hearted, soulful guy, you know.

It was different for him. He played like a bad guy on Dawson's Creek. He'd been kind of like a slimy, flirty dude and a couple movies and stuff like that. And it was smart for him to be like, no, I want to be the poet. Sign me up. Let me do that voiceover. Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I'm really glad the show actually turned out the way that it did instead of this bizarro world. It would have been weird if this dream was our whole show. Yeah. Hillary, what was it like for you because, you know, the three of us as the girls were still playing the same parts. Yeah. But, you know, Joy, you had to create a whole different friendship with Nathan, you know, in this alternate reality. But, Hill, you were kind of reliving Peyton and Nathan scenes with Peyton and Lucas. Yeah.

How did you feel like you differentiated those? or did you feel like you had to? Well, I remember people showing me playback of the pilot, especially when we had to recreate that scene in my room because they wanted it to be exactly the same. So my wardrobe is exactly the same. The way I'm positioned against the door is exactly the same, but my hair is like a power mullet.

So there's like certain things that can't match. And what I will say, is that, again, the chemistry is very different. James and I started the show as like this contentious couple, and we never really had chemistry. You know, I don't know anyone that's like, I'm a Nathan and Peyton ship. They're like literally are none.

Because they are not a good couple. So I, when like Peyton comes to pick Nathan up, whereas in the original pilot, we're like Peyton's interacting with Lucas and it's very, like, loaded. Like, there is energy there. There's none when she's picking up, Nathan, you know? It's just like, hey, man, you're screwing your life up.

Get in the car. Let me be your buddy. It's strong buddy energy. Yeah, it's big sister energy for sure. So to see those energy shifts, it allowed for Peyton to be more of what you guys were saying, just kind of like this sage-wise character. Yeah, I think the chem. And it's weird because none of us had chemistry reads.

Yes, George. What do you want to talk? George is looking for an amp right now. I have a little Payton Swayre in my house. She's got a ukulele on so she can play guitar. We don't have it right now, but when mom's done, we're going to rock so hard. Are you ready to rock? My amp, mom.

What is she for? How old is she now? She just turned four. Oh, my gosh. Are you going to date Nathan or Lucas? Which one? You know. I don't know.

Whichever one you want. Okay, honey, you didn't have them all. That's right. Have it all. Hey, listen, this might be a good moment in the conversation. Our listeners were asking, or sorry, Hillary, last week you asked us to make a cocktail for this week's episode. So I'm just going to give you guys the rundown. Here's what we're drinking, okay?

So if you're at home, I want you to go get your mescal. If you don't know what that is, you need to know. And it's part of kind of a tequila. I want you to go get an orange, or half an orange, we'll do. You're going to go get a jalapeno, and you're going to find some ginger liqueur. So I know all of you just have that lying around in your bar. But if you do. Ginger beer, maybe?

Could that beer a place? Ginger beer could work, actually. That might be quite nice. I also have this delicious dandelion bitters. Dandelion and burdock bitters. What's the company, Dr. Adam Schaub, I think. I don't know. anyway it looks old-timey it's old-timey and fun so this is my potion for today so you're gonna and then

you need mint go get some fresh mint so we're going to do an ounce or two depending on how you're feeling of the mescal a splash of the ginger liqueur you're going to juice half an orange into that glass and muddle up some mint and throw that all in with rocks and just well ice you know and and And mix it around. And then finally, I want you to take that jalapeno and grate it on a zester. Just zest that jalapeno into your drink. And then you have our cocktail. I don't even know what we're going to call this.

But we're all enjoying it. And we hope you do at home as well. So there you go. A spicy lady. The spicy lady. There you go. I like a spicy lady. It's my spicy lady.

You know who's a spicy lady? Karen. Karen Scott is a spicy lady. She sure is. This is the Karen Scott drink. That's what this is. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this. is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and

confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

It's very interesting that in Nathan's dream where the roles are reversed, they go so far as not just to be reversed in terms of who Dan chose, but it's... giving the woman he chose the power and taking his away. So he is this sort of subservient husband. His wife is the boss. She is the moneymaker. And she's like a no-holds-barred bitch and I like it. Ironically, though, he still did marry.

Well, if she's the moneymaker and he's the one who's staying at home, isn't that sort of still the situation with Deb? I guess Deb's home, but Deb had money. Well, Deb's daddy gave it to Dan. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like they fronted the money for his car dealership. Mm-hmm.

It would have been cool to see him and Karen living modestly. You know what I mean? Like two kids who only have high school degree, you know, like diplomas. If both of them dropped out and didn't have any parent giving them, you know, this special footing that Deb's. parents hooked them up with. Yeah. It would have been cool to see them living in Karen's house, as opposed to Dan's big, huge mansion.

I think that would have made Paul's bit more believable. It was so interesting watching Karen and Keith in that scenario. Oh, Karen cheating on him. The adulterers. Wow. And Keith, the owner of the dealership and being so cruel to Dan. And then Karen dropping that bomb. when he says I would have raised Lucas like my own

and she says sometimes I think he is because they're both assholes. And they never followed up on that. They never circled back. I mean, that was a big drop. Yeah. It was like an anvil that dropped in the middle of the room and then nobody addressed it.

So do we think that means that Karen hooked up with Keith like at the same time she was dating his brother when Lucas was conceived? Is that what we're inferring? But then why would she not have, let, why would she allow Lucas to think that Dan was his, sorry, Nathan to think that Dan was his dad if, God, I'm confused, guys, we're so, we need more tequila, Joy.

No, I don't need any more tequila, I promise. It was confusing, but what I think was done really gracefully was the coming out of the dream sequence because it starts off really subtle. I liked that. It was really subtle. You know, and it was like Lucas saying something to Nathan that was just kind of like off. It was two nights, you know? Yeah.

And then Haley coming up with the bracelet that turns into the wedding ring and you're like, oh, man. You're like, here it goes. Yeah, it's smart. Ooh, and then him telling her not to come home. That was rough. That really got me. But me too. I know he was doing it for her.

He was doing it because of her best interest, but also it seemed like for himself. was kind of climbing out of the selfish, or maybe not selfish is the wrong word. He was climbing out of the self-pity zone of, I hate what's being done to me, what's being done to me, and started recognizing maybe something positive for himself that could be coming out of this difficult scenario. I don't know exactly what that's going to be. I look forward to seeing it the next episode, but it seemed like he was making a choice really for himself rather than trying to solve a problem.

I mean, do we talk about suicide on our show? I don't know. Because that's what's being implied. And it's what Lucas asks him, and then they're interrupted, and so he can't get an answer. But that's a very serious subject matter to tackle on a teen drama. And, you know, we're touching on it. You know, we're lightly going there. But I'll be disappointed if we don't, like, go there and get Nathan help.

You know, this idea that, like, I'm going to drive into a wall. And then, I don't know, I'll just figure it out, you know. Yeah. It's also interesting. There were a couple of things going back and watching now that I felt like there was foreshadowing for, which is probably just something that we ascribe meaning, right? But things we didn't know were coming. Like when Nathan says on the end of levity, when he,

he says to Brooke and Peyton, I know you both want me when they're visiting the the hospital room. And it's like, well, when they sprung that surprise, Brooke and Nathan sex tape on us, and we were all horrified. I totally forgot about that. Oh, my God, in whatever season three or four, I don't remember when it is. God, I was so upset. We were all upset.

It was like, what are you talking about this? I hated that. I hated it. And now I'm like, ew, is that? Ew. Wait, now I can't stop thinking about that when he says this. And the other thing on the non-humorous slash gross side, the serious end is when you talk about this stuff in terms of him and really our show through him, just lightly touching on the potential for a young man to be depressed and potentially have a suicide attempt or suicidal ideation is when we fast forward to after the time jump. And Nathan is struggling wildly with depression.

You know, and he's in that dark place and throws himself out of the wheelchair into the pool and all those things. I don't know. It kind of gives me chills to see it now and to know what's coming. That I'm aware no one knew would be coming years later. But it certainly makes me wonder looking back at it.

what we what more we should have done as a show his mom leaves for her own rehab while he's still in a hospital bed you know like his family but but for real like what what's natural protocol yeah what's normal protocol if someone attempts suicide does a social worker get called in like who from the county who from the state is alerted i mean there there's got to be a lot of times there's not i don't think there is a lot of the time. I mean, there may be, but unless there's a crime involved, which technically a suicide attempt is a crime, but as I understand it, he destroyed some expensive property with this crash. That's right. Yeah. So I don't know. I don't think most of the time there is. I think it's just people sort of, unless there is immediate attention, a medical attention

that is needed, in which case then the hospital does have a responsibility to make those kinds of phone calls. But otherwise, I think maybe it's just the family just sort of tries to deal with it on their own. Yeah. Like at what point does CPS get called? It's like this kid just tried to kill himself. There's no CPS in one tree hill. Seriously, you guys, like all these children live alone. It's so weird. Nobody gets a phone call. No breaks on the tracks and nobody, nobody gets the call. I mean, it's a really big deal. Yeah. And it's good that we're seeing scenes where all of his friends are surrounding him. Yeah.

But also, we can't expect Lucas and Brooke and Peyton and Haley to have the skill set to deal with something like that at 16 years old. That's insane. No, not at all. It's crazy. There needed to be more responsible adults in the room, for sure. Karen added some gravity to it when she was sitting in the hallway with Whitey and she couldn't get a hold of Keith and she's like, he should know, you know, what's going on with

Nathan. Yeah. I know. Yeah, why did none of the parents get the memo that there were no break marks on the track? I don't know. It's weird. Can we blame Cooper?

No. Who was there that day? I mean, it's just, yeah, season two is a rough one for me. I feel like there's so many disjointed things happening towards the end of season two that I'm like, the dream sequence was kind of a nice break from it because there were no rules. It was just like, oh, season two is.

rough for a lot of shows. I think it's really hard to keep. I don't know, you know what, Succession had a great season two. I love season two. I thought they did a great. It was like better than the first season for me. But that's so rare. And I don't know why. Why is there always a second season cloud? You know what's interesting? I had a friend of mine who's in a band explain this to me, you know, they had a big, you know, hit debut album. And I remember a couple of the guys being at a dinner, like a dinner party. And it was something I'd never consider before. He was talking about, and Joy, you probably know this in the world of music, they call it, like the sophomore slump. What is your sophomore album going to be if you've had a hit

first album? Yeah. And the pressure of outperforming your first record. of doing better than the first thing you created can really be just crippling emotionally and psychologically. And I wonder if that's some of it. If, you know, a show that premiered six months ahead of when it was supposed to and grew week by week, hand over fist because of word of mouth and started amassing this incredible, really organic fan base. Yeah. That was really, you know, like had a finger on the pulse of what young people were going through and then you're supposed to do it again. Yeah, yeah, exactly. Like 24 times. Yeah, 24 times. Yeah, it's crazy. For sure. And then they started wanting bottle episodes like we talked about the other week where they, then they want to be

able to do some that are standing alone instead of drawing out a storyline that goes on, you know, so they're also getting all these demands from the network on here's what's working. Here's the formula that's working on our other shows. Try and do this. Try and do that. I mean, And it's like, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. But, you know, that's not really hard. So we literally went back to the pilot and we were like, I guess we'll just do this again. Let's do it one more time. Fine.

What a good idea. Do you think that they were like having a panic in the writer's room and they were like, we got to go back and watch the pilot and figure out what the fuck we're doing? We don't remember what we're doing. Maybe. What happens to Nathan on the table? Right? I picture them in the writer's room just like throwing scripts, pages falling everywhere, panic.

How do we make this TV show? Yeah, it happens everywhere, though. It's not just our show. It happens in all kinds of shows. And in theater, too, by the way, the second act is notoriously not as good as the first or just like, because the second act does so much heavy lifting until you get to the very end. There's just so there is a lot of pressure to dig in deeper. You know, the first season was so much set up for us. And as is act one in a lot of shows.

plays and as is many other TV series and movies sometimes too. I mean, you just get into Act 2 and you have to dive in deeper and with a show like ours where there's already so much drama, so much emotion, so many feelings to go deeper. We've been to the hospital so many times already. I know. Why have both of these boys had to have major surgery in the first two seasons? It's a lot. But it also is kind of like our careers.

I mean, look, this was like our first big, huge job. And then what's Act 2? You know, the fear of leaving and, like, act, act to as a whole in life is always intimidating. Whether it's, like, going off to college or trying to, like, get that next job after your first big break or, you know. Yeah, we've got kids and dogs all over the place and you're like, how do I set goals again? Who am I? What am I doing with my life? I don't know. I don't know. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story. story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. girls had gotten to change because haley you're right haley brooke and peyton are the same if those girls had gotten a change what would you have wanted your character to be like different how how different would you want your character oh m g i would have loved to play either of your characters how fun either way you're gonna be naked in the shower by the way talk about the repeats brook walks out of the shower with nathan in front of dan it's literally what you had to do in the pilot that you've been They're like, well, we know we can't ask Hillary to do it again. Isn't that so interesting that we, so there were these repetitions, but with these sort of

tessellations in them as well? Yeah, remember when they told me you were going to replace me on the show? They were like, we'll just have, we'll have Sophia do it this go around. I mean, there's like little tiny, yeah, from season one. I mean, that was right about the time. They were like, we've got someone else to come in and do the sexy stuff. Oh, right, right, right, right. And so to come back.

And then I was like, I'm sorry, nobody told me that's why I'm here. You told me I was coming here to be the comic relief. What the fuck? No, well, look. Do comedy with your boobs, Sophia. Do comedy with your tits, kid. No, I refuse. Wait, so we have evil titties and comedy tits?

How many different kinds of tits did we have on our show? Oh, boy. Evil titties, comedic titties. So many tithes. God, these tithes are so talented. Multi-faceted titties. Oh, God. Yeah, so how different would you want your character in an alt universe?

Like, if we had to pick something different. Hmm. I mean, if we were going to do this Alt Universe episode and really go there and let all the girls switch roles, I would have loved Brooke Davis in this episode to have been so far down the spectrum that she was the Erica Marsh, that she was already the class president and she had no social. life and she was just a completely different kind of person for two acts like why not yeah that's not what we got extra in a different way man yeah I remember when I and I think I may have said this on the show already I can't remember but when I got the job um a girlfriend of mine reminded me of this

recently that when I got this job I she walked in the bathroom she was at my house and watched the bathroom and I was sticking bobby pins behind my ears because I wanted Haley's ears to stick out because I thought that would just be really cute. And she was like, but what if the show runs for a really long time? That's going to hurt. It's going to hurt. I was like, you're right. And I was having a really hard time, like, situating it in a way so that they would really do that. But where I'm going with this is that it was. My point is. I think it would have been really fun. I wish that I had been comfortable enough with myself at the time to really allow Haley to fully embrace the sort of shy, nerdy, bookish. Maybe nerdy's the wrong word. I don't know if

that's appropriate anymore or not, but I kind of like nerds. I love the word, nerds. Yeah, but nerds are hot. But still like just totally allow her to be that kind of bookish, you know, shy girl. Whereas I didn't, I think so much of our time in Wilmington, especially the first season, it turned into a competition in a lot of ways, which we've discussed many times on this show before, just through A, us being young women. And that was the environment that I think was kind of expected of young women in all in the same environment, kind of vying for like who's going to be the front runner, who's going to be. Who's not? Yeah. Yeah. And also just the exterior forces that were intentionally pitting us against each other. But if all of those things hadn't existed. And I had just sort of known then what I know now, to be able to really embrace allowing Haley to be as nerdy as she wanted to be for as long as it would have worked on the show instead of trying to turn her into something like a little sexier or hotter or whatever

to kind of compete with you guys. I would have loved that. I would love to see that. Yeah. Well, I hate that you felt like you had to compete, but. No, it's just, that's just part of, it's part of life. It's part of, especially as a young woman and that was the environment. and you know I wanted to be I looked up to you guys too like we all sort of I think had this admiration of each other in different ways and I thought oh my gosh they're so cool and pretty and like I want to be a pretty girl too and I want to be you know so instead of just feeling comfortable with who I was which comes with age really that kind of comfortability I went into a different zone which is normal yeah and I mean I think it's important to be tender with those versions of

of ourselves because we all felt that in one way or enough. Yeah. You know, like, there's nothing weirder than getting ready in the morning and being all lined up in mirrors and being like, who's getting fake lashes today? Whose hair looks good? You know, like, you're all being painted together. It can't be about the character. It has to be about like, oh, the press we're going to get or the way we're going to look

on TV. Who's going to look the best in this episode? Or, you know, it's so gross. It's so unnatural. But I guess when I say. we should be gentle with ourselves. We have to remember that wasn't a metric we set. Yeah. That's what we were told the metric was by all the people in charge. And there are people in charge in other environments who don't tell young women that that's what the metric is. Yeah.

So I'm really proud of us for doing our best, but also not hiding that we were uncomfortable. And yeah, it may have taken us time to finally stop, you know, trying to keep. up with the Joneses and actually just go out together and be like, how do you feel? Because I feel weird. You know, like, I feel really weird. This all could have been solved with one night of drinking, you guys. Totally. But we were young and we were good kids. It took us a while to get to drinking, guys. Get there faster, I guess is the moral of the story. Hilary, tell us about your character. How do you think you would have liked to see Peyton? I think about economics a lot, because I went to a high school where the year after my freshman year, they built a new high school in the rich

community. And all the bullies moved away. Like any person that had ever made my life hell was gone. And it made me hate people with money so much because that really was like the line. And when we were filming the show, I don't think that we really thought about economics and the way we're having conversations right now. But Peyton and Haley lived like next door to each other, literally our houses are catty corner from each other. And we lived kind of on the, you know, not the fancy neighborhood. These are older homes. It is a lower, there's a food desert where those two homes are, which means that the people that live there don't have easy access to a grocery store. There's a lot of economic and racial factors at play

in that part of Wilmington. And I would have loved to have seen Peyton, out with the kids in her neighborhood, like the River Court boys. Like, I loved, loved, loved our scenes when we would all be together. And I think we all just kind of like glowed tonight when we got to see the scene on the river court because they were so special. And they look good, they feel good, they send a good message. And it doesn't matter which boy is on the right side and which boy is on the bad side. You know, like we've had Chad be the good guy and James be the bad guy.

and in this episode we got the reverse of that, what you see is community in those scenes. And I, as Peyton, would have loved to have spent more time with the River Court boys because I feel like they represent a really important part of a community and of a school. And they are the guys that, you know, lived in our neighborhood. And yeah, and plus, like, they're the fun ones. Like, when we partied outside of work,

those are the guys we partied with. It was like, Colin and Vaughn. We were going to Vaughn's apartment. And Lee. Yeah. I mean, they were like the fun ones. So that's, that would have, to be a girl that infiltrated that boys club would have felt fun. That would attract for Peyton too, especially for a girl whose parents were never home.

You would need to build a community of like boys and brothers around you. Dudes. Yeah, for sure. To feel safe. Yeah. And I just love those guys. They're so fun. I love the banter between all of them.

them it just adds a layer that like our show can really miss sometimes because it starts to try to be sexy and then you bring those rivercourt boys in and it's like we're high school kids let's get weird yeah the episodes are always better when those boys are in them i agree always better yeah pay them more money by the way you know who else makes an episode feel fuller because brett claywell oh i love him he was so great too great you're so reliable you're so reliable He really is And he's not too cool for the bit I know what I mean

Like you know how some actors can be too cool for the bit He really commits Yeah Does anyone have his number? Yes We should text him Be like Brett what are you doing right now You want to jump on a podcast?

I don't have his number Well he's gonna He's gonna join us soon We have Brett booked for an upcoming episode But I'm just gonna tell him We do? Just tell him we're talking about him When did that happen?

I missed that I'm glad you guys I'm a grandma I use voice dictation So for everyone who's listening to the podcast, here we go. Hey, boyfriend, exclamation mark. It's Hillary and Joy and Sophia, exclamation mark. We're literally talking about you right now on the podcast, so I hope your ears are burning.

Period. You're the effing co-list. Period. XO, XO, XO. Guys, that's how I text you, too. I have to talk everything out. My kids hate it. They literally are trying to say, okay, mom, period.

Okay, mom, exclamation mark. I love that. Message sent. I love a voice to text. It's great. Me too. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric. that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories,

such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

You know what I did last night? What? Speaking of alternate universe, I went on a house date with my husband. We put the children to sleep, and then he lit a fire in our bedroom. And we watched a movie. And you know what movie we watched?

What? What? So cold. No, you didn't. No, you didn't. You better believe it. And so listen, Joy is so hot in this movie. She's so hot in this movie.

And she's like this edgy documentary filmmaker. And I woke up this morning and I was like, I need to get my act together. First of all, you're fantastic in the movie. And the movie is super, super spooky. And Jeff was like, we have to go to that hotel because we're going to so curious about it. You got to go to this hotel. Guys, I'm telling you. It's amazing.

It's a really cool hotel. I'm scared. But Joy, I'm copying you today because I have been wearing brown eyeliner for years, but you wore very black eyeliner in this movie. And I don't know if you can tell, but... Oh, you look so sexy. I love it. I love it.

But I was like, I'm going to do what Joy's doing. So, to bring this full circle, it reminds me of us getting ready in the morning on the show. I'm feeling a little bit like, oh, what's she doing? What's she doing? I woke up this morning and was like, I want to look like, my friend Joy in So Cold the River, one of the top streaming horror films on, what is it, Amazon Prime? Apple, Amazon, it's everywhere. I don't know. It's crazy. It's on all the things. Doing really well. It's crazy. Baby, it was spooky. Don't drink the water. Don't drink the water. Um, yeah, you know, I'm so

grateful that now we're at a phase in our lives where it's fun to look at each other and be like, ooh, I'm inspired. I want to do that. Oh, like, it's inspiration. feels fun where it doesn't have to be competitive at all. It's just like out of sheer love and excitement and sharing creativity. It's like sharing Pinterest boards. It's the best. Great. Pinterest boards for our eyelashes.

Yeah. Fine. We're in that black eyeliner like I'm, God, Peyton Sawyer in 2004 loved some black eyeliner. So I'm back on it. You brought me back. I need to break. You know who wears. black eyeliner and pulls it off great. And she's been wearing it for years. And sometimes it's

actually the only makeup she wears is black eyeliner. Michaela McManus. Yes. Yes. Yes. The tear line. It's, it's so good. Listen, you guys, my husband had to go to the city. And so being able to work from home means that she's in my lap. It also means that we get to drink Joy's cocktails. And it means that we only have to wear like shirts and pajama pants. So it's the best gig. ever. How do we do a TV show like this? Like, how do we? I don't know. Can we translate this? Yeah. Fine. Done. There's a sitcom in here somewhere. My dream job is a sitcom right now. That schedule is like to die for. Oh, it's the best. What do you show up on Monday morning for three hours and then Tuesday for four, maybe? Okay, so this episode was alternate reality. Could we do

One Tree Hill as a sitcom? Honestly, I would. If you told me, If you only we could do that life, I would do it. Hi, George. That would be amazing. Oh, my gosh. We're just like knocking at each other's doors. It works with everybody just showing up in Peyton's bedroom all the time with nobody ever knocking. How do we do a remix of one tree hill and three's company and we're the company?

Oh, yes. Hello? That's so fun. Your apartment, but the apartment everyone lived in. It's like you and Nathan and then Brooke moves. And then at some point, like, the rest of us are always there. We're always there. The apartment is the sitcom.

Did you guys see the facts of life that they did with Jennifer Aniston? I did not. How was it? It was cute. It was super cute. It was funny to see all that. I mean, I don't know if it would still work today, but it was fun to see. But I don't know.

Can you imagine One Tree Hill is a sitcom? Yes. 100%, yes. I can imagine us doing a sitcom. So, like, I'm here for it. Oh, yeah. You know what, though? Somebody.

Wait, guys, we have a listener question this week, and if Katie, the listener who submitted it is cool with it, I want to take it and slightly flip it to this combo. Oh, go, yeah. Because Katie asked, she said, I don't want to be as iconic, still is, but if you had to choose a different theme song for the show, what would it be? So I want to know, to piggyback Katie's question, what would the theme song of Wonderland is a sitcom be? Oh, what you have a sitcom song? Interesting. Is it a Dolly Parton song? It feels like it should be.

I mean, so George is going through a huge Jolly Parton face, right? And I played her the 9 to 5 song. It's the best song in the world. I love that song. And it struck so many chords, just like women working in a men's world. I fucking love that movie. Babe. The best.

Can we do that? movie oh my fucking god how do we do a nine to five remake oh it's a musical now too and we all say let's just see the musical version of nine to five do the damn thing that's it but like as a movie wait so is that is that our is that our new montreal well sure because you know we once we jumped five years ahead we're grown-ups you know and so i think it works so i'm looking up i'm looking up Springsteen songs right now because there is something about sort of the every man, the working man that, you know, Bruce always resonates with that I think also... You're from New Jersey, Joy.

Jersey. Whatever the Bruce Springsteen song is you land on, then you have to cover it, obviously. Oh, my gosh. My hometown, I guess. That probably makes the most sense. Yes, yes. Yes. I like that.

Born to run, also super legendary. Born to Run. That feels very patent. All right. People always leave. It also always reminds me of running a run. Like us. Maybe we were born to run.

Wait, Sophia, what song would you pick? I mean, I said a Dolly Parton song. Honestly, any of them. Yeah. So, yeah, 9 to 5, I'm down. We could do a little remake to make it like our show. It doesn't matter to me. I just want it.

Fine. Katie also said, what's the funniest? Oh, no. I'm sorry, Maileen said this. What's the funniest moment you had while filming the show? Oh, geez. Oh, my gosh. Oh, my God.

There were literally the funniest. I don't like to be competitive. What's a funny thing that happened? I don't like to be competitive. It doesn't have to be the funniest. There is no funniest when you did something for 10 years. That's true. I mean, could you even answer the question, what's the funniest thing that happened in all of your high school?

Like, I don't know. Yes. Yes. No, I can't. answer that question. You can. Okay, go. Answer it. Freshman year. I get my mother to take me to Abercrombie because all of the rich bitches at school wear Abercrombie and I'm trying desperately to fit in because if you don't fit in, then you're the butt of the joke. Yeah. So we go and we get this like super cute baby size skirt and I am pumped to wear this baby size skirt. It's a belt with a

button. And I wear it. And I have lunch the same time as the whole football team. Like they must have had some class and I had class and we're all in the same lunch block. And we're coming from downstairs or from upstairs. And I had just gotten brand new sandals that were so cute, but very slippery. And I fall down the entire flight of stairs in this teeny, teeny tiny baby skirt in front of the entire football team. And it becomes my legacy And so then I started I started dressing like a man

Like pretty soon after that Like that's when I was like I'm gonna wear some big slacks Just some big big slacks Oh my gosh Yeah just to be like spread eagle Falling down a set of stairs It's like no one's ever seen my panties before

Oh my God And now it's like the entire senior class I'm so mortified for you I'm sweaty thinking about it Because the sense memory, like, I know what that skirt felt like. Oh, God. My face is so hot. Those Abercrombie skirts were so short.

They were so short. So stressful. This is why I'm androgynous now. Nothing to see here, folks. I'm sorry. Move right along. Move right along. But on the show, I mean, who knows?

Who knows? I don't know. I can't really remember. I mean, God, I wish. I had great stories and great. I just don't have, as I've mentioned before, I don't have a great memory with a lot of things like that. I don't know.

There was an actor that Sophia and I worked with one season who really sold himself. This was like a day player, Sophia, and this dude was real aggressive with the two of us. And he has since gone on to be on other TV shows, and he always lists like a character name, but none of his characters actually have names. he makes these up to put on the internet.

And I see him from time to time in a TV show just like staring from the background. And I'm like, I know that fucker. And he's so uncomfortable. Because he like told us he was a model and all sorts of stuff. And I just remember you and I being like, how do we get out of this? How do we get away from this person? Oh, gosh. Oh, man.

Those are weird. I'm texting Paul right now to see if he has a good funny memory because he's so good at like, he's a great storyteller. He remembers everything. I mean, you know what's funny? I can't necessarily remember what they were caused by. But I just remember the days where we would be laughing until we were in tears. But it was like... It's only because it was like three in the morning and you couldn't remember.

Yeah, like you would just lose your mind after being at work for so long. That happened at your wedding. That was Brooke and Julian's wedding. And I do remember. I don't know who I was sitting with. But there was also some peach moonshine getting passed around. Oh, man. I know who bought that in Dacia.

Guys, I still have one jar in my freezer. I've been saving it. What? Oh, he sent me home with a lot of moonshine. And I'm down to one last little baby Mason jar. And I'm like, if anybody drinks this, I will murder that. You better share that with us. We need to have someone to go over.

Yeah, Joy can make a cocktail with that. Come on. Oh, it just needs, oh, gosh. Yes. Yeah, that's all I remember, though, is those big scenes where we were just so tired and so it had been such a long day and we were, you know, underfed or overfed or whatever and just, you know, everybody was starting to slip clear alcohol into their water bottles and we were all just having long days. And I do remember that at Brooke and Julian's wedding. We were all just, I mean, Greg Prange was directing that episode, I'm pretty sure. And he was so irritated with us. Come on. we everybody wants to get out of here we're like we know I'm so afraid there's also nothing worse than getting the church giggles in an actual church because the echo makes it so much worse oh it's awful you can't look at anybody and you just start bursting into bits of laughter Lisa Goldstein and I used to get the church giggles so bad so bad my god she's a fun person to giggle us. Should we spin a wheel? Yeah, let's spin a wheel. Most likely to win the lottery and lose the ticket. Me. Guys, I can't even get in line at like Six Flags or Disneyland or wherever. I will get in the line with my ticket. And by the time I reach the front, I have no idea where the ticket is.

It's like, I don't know what number I am. I think you're 20 minutes. I promise. You need one. of those little clear pouches that hangs on a lanyard around your neck that you could just put all your stuff in. I do. I need a tourist lanyard. No, no, no. No, I mean, look, who scatter, I mean, it's not a scatterbrain thing so much as it is a, I'm busy. What do you want from me? It's like I got better things to focus on than this tiny piece of paper, unless the tiny piece of paper is worth $100 million and then it's extremely unfortunate. I mean, a character on the show is for or Keith. Like, Keith loses the lottery ticket because he's doomed. Poor Keith. That's sweet, man. You're right. Okay. It's Joy and it's Keith. Yeah. Yeah.

What a winning combo. We finally found someplace we fit together. Azah! All right. Can't wait for the next episode. Bye. Season 2.21. What could it be? Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us review. You can also follow us on

Instagram at Drama Queens O-T-Harendh. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl

cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.