Drama Queens - Clothes Over Bros • EP309

Episode Date: August 1, 2022

It’s the birth of Clothes Over Bros. Haley, Brooke and Peyton got… arrested?! Yep, that happened. Plus, the Drama Queens dissect the massive falling out between Brooke and Lucas. Oh, and who tried to kill Dan in that fire? See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Ladies and gentlemen, you're coming in to this new episode. We're in the middle of discussing Bethany Joy Lenz's home decor. I just shared my screen and we're just trying to decide on a black and white checkerboard floor. Does it go diagonally or does it go straight? And, you know, it could work in either environment. It just depends on what it is. But it's true.

The girls are voting for diagonals. When all else fails, ask Sophia Bush Hughes because she thinks 20. steps ahead and knows exactly what the room is going to look like when it's fully finished and invoked I just think a lot about shapes like and I've come to learn that there are certain things you can do as shapes that are calming and certain things you can do as shapes that are very stressful and as an anxious person with like not a small amount of OCD I tend to really lean toward the calming options I love this I'm going to I'm just I don't like I said the problem is I know how busy you are and I don't want to continually blow up your phone.

No, send me stuff all the time. So text her. When she's just like brushing her teeth, she's going to be like, solve this problem. Here's another problem. Let me solve this. Let me do this. Like my like insomnia moment therapy is to get on Pinterest and decorate homes. To be clear, I don't own.

But I'm like, if I lived in upstate New York, this is what my house would look like. It's calming for me. Well, that's like the perfect segue into this episode. because ladies and gentlemen, in this episode, Brooke Davis has a huge falling out with Lucas Scott, decides to launch your own clothing label, gets all the materials for said clothing label, creates said clothing label,

puts on a fashion show, and then realizing she's still pretty sad about Lucas all in like four hours. I genuinely was like, when did I have time to go to Joanne Fabrics? Like, when was there time for any of this? Do you know how long it takes to, like, I'm not a great sower. Hillary, you're probably better on the machine than I am.

But, I mean, do you guys know how long it takes to sew a garment properly? A train lines and, like, fittings. And you did, how many, you had all the cheerleaders there. I mean, how many things did you? I mean, just the dress Bevin was wearing was so complicated. Yeah, she had like a cute little vintage get up. I just loved that, like, clearly boys wrote this because they're like, oh, yeah, Yeah, she could just, like, staple it together.

We're just going to hot glue this dress. Yeah, it'll be fine. It'll be fine. Well, okay, let me tell everybody. Oh, I also silk screened T-shirts, tank tops, baseball teas, and zip-up sweatshirts. Like, it really is incredible all in the time that, like, Nathan and Chris Keller just played poker. Yeah, yep. Oh, and don't forget, Joy, Haley and Brooke also built the website.

So not only is this the moment where the idea of closeover bros crystallizes in the only fist bump I have ever found to be adorable on television but we launched 18 verticals of business while everybody else was just Yeah

It's just still laying in bed you guys Give them the rundown everybody else Does very little Brooke does lot Here's the basic rundown It's season 3 episode 9 How a Resurrection really feels air date December 7th, 2005. So the results are in for Tree Hill Mayor.

Lucas comes to the rescue after Haley, Brooke, and Peyton are arrested. Totally forgot we went to jail. It's so funny. Closeover Bros. is born after Haley convinces Brooke to do something for herself to cheer herself up. Peyton's Angel of Death visits her in her dreams. Nathan and Chris go on a super fun poker road trip to win back his studio money. We find out who tried to kill Dan in the fire. Brooke's feelings are revealed to Lucas

while she gives him her summer letters and then there's some new stuff with Nathan and Haley as well they finally find their way back to each other. It's a big episode. A lot happened in this episode. Yeah, and it was all random but in the greatest way. You know, I feel like we've been watching some episodes that have felt a little hodge-podgey

and like, where are we going and what's happening and what's the point? This all felt like all the random stuff really came together in a super cohesive, fun way. A lot of, like, nuggets got dropped in this episode. And that's what I liked, because I could see where some things were going. And it was like, oh, this is a seed planting episode. Yeah.

I love that we start off being arrested. Like, that is an iconic thing that I was like, I know we got arrested. I can't remember for what? Yeah. Wait, was there an actual shot in this episode of us getting our mugshots, like the snaps of our, photos, mugshot photos? No, that's how it opens, isn't it? We shot at the end of the last episode.

I have seen those photos out there and I have never, I did not see it in the episode. So I'm confused. I'm confused as well. Well, there's a whole scene because I'm upset and Joy, you're upset and Hillary, you're laughing. Yeah, our, like fans ask us to recreate that picture at conventions. I know. Yeah. Wait, did that wind up in a deleted scene?

Because we have seen. Yeah. God, what verbiage? We've seen the scene. I know we've watched it. Do we go to jail twice? I wonder if it's like a deleted scene in the season or is it, was it the end of the last episode like in the credits? Did we miss it?

I don't know. Maybe I was just like peeling an orange just now and looked down and didn't notice it. I just didn't see it. No, surely because listen, my hair changed every season and I definitively know that I had the bob when we got arrested and did that. You had the bob. I had the bangs, and Joy, you had the really long blonde hair. Yeah. It's for this.

All right. Somebody's going to have to do some sleuthing for us. And someone needs to make us like an oil painting of us in orange jumpsuits because it is one of my favorite. Teen tiny oil painting. Oh, my God, I need John Broseo to make an oil painting of that. If I could get like a 10 inch by five inch oil painting, the perfect little rectangle of us with our mugshot, I would die for that. Honestly, that's like, okay. all right you artsy kids out there we love art your art matters we want mugshots um yeah yeah that

was a lot in this episode and lucas you know where should we start where do we like where there's so much to go through we're going to be pinballing all over the place do we want to do this chronologically because luc is picking us up and then being a dick to brook at the beginning of the episode great is like i i liked that the audience is reminded early on of all the things that he's upset about. Because if he were just being upset to be like a broody teenage boy, I'd be like, whoa, hold your horses, kid. But he brings up the Halloween costume thing

and the friends with benefits thing. And then he brings up a whole laundry list of stuff that has really hurt his feelings. And that's his justification for being like, you can sit in jail for 10 minutes longer and I'm not going to talk to you and yeah I mean I get it I get why he's upset but I don't yeah it's not fun to watch it's still like well he's just in the zone he's in this zone of being kind of pouty which I think he's been doing for a while but and we were talking about that in the last episode of boys talking to their moms and saying like none of the girls like me and you know I'm I'm I'm just like, he's pouty right now. Super. So, I don't know.

I think the double standard that he holds Brooke to is pretty insane and ridiculous. Or that he has for himself that he's not holding bro. I don't know, whatever. You know what I'm trying to say. No, totally. I mean, we talked about it, you know, it's funny. We're talking about going chronologically, but I feel like we're sort of in these buckets of experience. And when we got further into the episode and there's the scene between Lucas and Brooke and she's,

really trying to open up and explain how afraid she's been to, you know, be vulnerable with him and to give him a chance because of how much she was hurt. And he's so, you know, he's written to just be so terrible to her. He's mean. He's so mean. And she says, I knew it was going to be bad, but this is worse. I mean, he calls her a skank. It's like, and I know we've belabored this point, you guys, but the three of us were just cringing because we were like, grown men. wrote this stuff. And it models this idea that nothing boys do is ever their fault. And it's all fine and they're figuring out who they are. But if girls make mistakes or experiment or, you know, do anything, they, by the way, might even regret after the fact we're just going to call them

whores. We were just like, ew, this. The double standard is gross. After what, how Lucas has been, you know, messing around all over the place, not just with Emmanuel, but, you know, the whole thing with Rachel. And then also just, you know, being with Peyton while he was dating Brooke, it's like the fact that, you know, he and Brooke were on good friendly terms. They were doing fine. She had forgiven him, you know, and it was all okay. And now Brooke has a moment with Chris, which is none of Lucas's business because they're not together. And he broke into her apartment to see it. It's It's not like she was out on a club, like, sucking things with Chris Keller in front of people. She was in the privacy of her-regardable one-night stand.

And it was in his business. Yeah. He would have never known if he hadn't been a creeper and broke into her place. Is Lucas being like Dan in this episode just showing up in people's houses? Why would Dan and Karen's house? That was so weird. And they never addressed it and she seemed so normal about it. She was like, oh, good morning.

I'm just going to watch this again. When she walked in the room, I genuinely, I said, oh, she must be dreaming. Because Peyton is dreaming Pangell. So I was like, oh, it must be like, this is a Karen nightmare. Dan is in Karen's house. It's a dream. And then there he is messing with the VCR. Like, how did they never explain why he was there?

Did you just come up with Pangel or has that been a thing? No, that's the thing. That's what it's called. It is. That's her name. The entity is Pangell. Sorry, sorry to derail. I love this, Dan Scott is Karen's pain, Joel.

Just like, you're in my head and get out of my brain. Yeah, the literal haunting in her brain. That feels right. Yeah, the voice that tells you all the things you don't want to hear, Dan Scott. Oh, God. You can't kill Dan Scott. The whole, the whole Dan Scott thing. I, there was a, the time on the show where they balanced.

balanced him where we thought perhaps there was like a little boy in there that needed healing and things had gone terribly wrong for. And now it's just this like, you know, cartoon villain where they don't let him have any moments of reprieve. And it's exhausting to watch that stuff. It is. But it also feels so oddly honest. I mean, we were talking about. watching him run this campaign and going, we see literal elected officials who behave exactly like this. I didn't realize what a sort of powerful social commentary it was on that, that certain brand of narcissism and a desire for control that does run for office.

Wait, which politician is Dan Scott? I think it's Jim Jordan for sure. He reminds me a lot of Ted Cruz. A whole lot. I don't know. Dan Scott. This whole idea of like, I'm just a broken man and you're watching me and I'm going to grow with you. It's like, no, boss, do your work.

Show up. Ready to do the job. Yeah, that's right. But it is interesting, isn't it, how people, it was such a wild thing to look at, you know, from today's moment looking back. not only, you know, these big election signs that say row all over them. I was like, oh, my God. Yeah. Like, I literally have chills.

But, you know, people often do begrudge women who run for office. They don't love it when, like, women are quote unquote, you know, climbing up the power ladder. And here's a guy who beat up his kid at school in front of all the other kids. And all he has to do is say, you know, I've made mistakes, but I'm really, trying and everyone goes, we relate to him. It's so... It's accurate for that time. I mean, I feel like, I don't know if that narrative still exists now where I think people are a lot more excited to see women climbing ladders and being in

powerful positions. Certainly more now. Yeah, way more now. They're more excited, but women face threat. Like, we just saw this where, you know, everyone made a whole big deal about how Justice Kavanaugh had to, oh, heaven forbid, clutch my pearls, leave a dinner before he had cake. Because there were protesters. outside peaceful protesters who he never even saw or spoke to and aOC got assaulted on the steps of Congress uh representative giapal had a guy outside her house with a gun threatening to murder her like there there's actually a female reporter i retweeted her threat and it was every violent death threat that like an elected woman has gotten that hasn't gotten any front page news but like

oh, he couldn't eat cake. And I was like, man, so while I do think that we should be celebrating, yes, there are more women in elected office than ever before, we still don't have parity, and we're still dealing with things that the men just aren't. And when anything bad happens to them, it's like crazy front page news for days. And people go, yeah, well, I mean, you know, yeah, yeah, they're the guy with a gun outside her house and said he was going to kill her. And I'm like, why is it?

Why are we not talking about this? Yeah, one of the things that has bothered me a lot with domestic issues is, I mean, it goes both ways, but I think women are more affected by it in so much as that if someone threatens you, there's really nothing anybody can do about it until they actually do something. So you can go to the police and say so and so threatened to hurt me and you can try and get a restraining order, but they can't, there's nothing really that can be done until somebody actually hurts you, which is crazy. But anyway, it's kind of beside the point. But definitely this was way more true back then in, when was this, 2005? It was even crazy that Karen was runny. Do you know what I mean? Right, right, I know.

Unwad mother? As a single mother? Right. Yeah, she's still a crazy big deal. So I don't know. Yeah, they tried to attack her for it. I loved what you said during the episode, Hillary, that you said, I've, what did you say? You're like, I'm angry with the people of Tree Hill.

I have, like, doubts about. Oh, my God. Yes. Just, why would they? You guys, I'm a level with you. Tree Hill's not a real place. However, sometimes the line between fact and fiction gets a little blurry even for me. And so Wilmington is Tree Hill.

It just fucking is. And I got mad watching this voter base, like, cheer enthusiastically for Dan, knowing that he beat his. kid up, you know, like knowing that he's done all these other horrible things, knowing that he's run this like smear campaign. He's so sleazy. He's probably shit on every kid he went to high school with. So there are people in the community that know that he's awful. And they're just like, yes, look at that ugly tie. Yes. This is who is that tie. That tie. Who put Paul Johansson in that tie? Oh my God. Because Paul is a handsome man. And that tie was so upsetting. could barely look at his face. I couldn't stop looking at it. I know. It's a bad tie. It was a

real bad tie. I wonder if it was, I actually was wondering as we were talking shit about the tie while we watched the episode. Like, do you think it was, it must have been on purpose. It must have been a wardrobe choice. You know, a team of people who make decisions on every single thing any of us wears probably thought this really makes him look douchy. And we want him to have that creepy politician vibe. It had to have been a choice. I don't know. We had to submit like four options for every outfit throughout the course of it.

So if you're wearing like five different outfits in one episode, you have to submit 20 different outfits so that this chain of command can pick out what you're going to wear. The fact that it boiled down to that tie on Dan Scott. Honestly, it could have just been, it could have just been somebody hung the four ties in his dressing room and he was walking out the door and he just grabbed whatever. Are we blaming Paul for this? It's possible. Like, it's possible. I don't know. Maybe he was feeling whimsical or just wasn't paying attention. He was like, I don't know. Just put me on a tie. I don't care. Give me a tie. Bad tie. It was interesting that it was so red, white and blue. And then he was surrounded by all the red, white, and blue decor. And then all the red, white and blue balloons and then all the confetti. And it was in the sort of like really intense moving moment victory. And I don't mean

moving emotionally. I mean, everything around him was moving. We were all obviously very upset. that he won. But when he turns around and there's all this sort of chaos, commotion, hubbub, and Barbara has just been there on the stairs, you know, and he does the thing, here's my wife, Deb, and then she's gone. I loved it. I loved it. I loved that they had her just bail and that he wasn't prepared for it. It's the first thing that's caught him by surprise in a while. And it was nice to see Dan Scott in his moment be flustered. Alone. It really, it really communicated that he knew he didn't deserve it. Yeah, I mean, that personality, I have to say I had, one of the biggest problems about

that level of malignant narcissism is that I have had experience with this where everybody really thinks that you're the nicest guy in the world. Like they will look at a malignant narcissist and say that is genuinely like the nicest guy because they know how to, their mimics. So they know exactly how to mimic empathy and how to mimic. And they'll cry sometimes because they are feeling sorry for themselves. So they can cry about themselves. They can show emotion.

So everybody's like, that's not a narcissist. They've got emotion. And they'll even sometimes seem really shy and quiet and just helpful and super nice. And it just doesn't always show up as this big, loud, boisterous, you know, needs everybody's attention all the time. It also shows up the same way that Dan did at his speech when he was trying to be humble and quiet and choked up. It's a little caricaturey that they wrote it on the card.

Pause for choke up. You know, obviously like whatever. Okay. This is a show. Incredible. Incredible to see, though. It was great. But, you know, it is important to note that because even, like, family courts haven't

even caught up with that. That is still, you know, I've been to court recently with a friend of mine who was dealing with a narcissist ex. And there's no setup for this. And they have a guidance at item, a guardian at lightam, a GAL is what they're called. They are there to watch the child and like recommend what's best for the child and they meet with both the parents. And it's crazy because it's so easy to just get, like, scoot by the narcissism. And you just come off as the nicest, sweetest person because and the community,

people who are in abusive relationships with a narcissist feel often that they don't have any support because everyone around them is like sorry, like he's or she is really like the nicest person I ever met. They would never do what you're talking about. I've known them for 20 years. And the truth is you just don't know

unless you're in that relationship and dealing with it on a day-to-day basis because you are the one place that is the safe punching bag because no one will believe you. And that's something I think is so interesting about the bond between Karen and Deb. Yes. They are

the only two women who know. Yeah. They know and Nathan and Lucas. Yeah. In a weird way. We're all bonded by Dan's narcissism. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is

Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation

of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation. basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we know who Deb calls at the end of the episode? Because... It must be Karen. calls her. Lucas. Yes, Karen calls Lucas.

Lucas goes to Deb. Deb calls someone and was like Karen knows, or Lucas knows. No, she says Lucas knows. Yeah. Is it Keith? Oh. Or Andy. Ooh.

Andy sent flowers. I like all of these potential stories. Because Lucas is the one who knew it was Deb from the beginning. And Dan showing that tape to Karen, then Karen sees, I would imagine Deb leaving the dealership or something. Or no, not leaving, no, buying the booze. It's whoever bought the booze. Uh-huh. Huh.

It's, he didn't even need the tape. You know, that was like a weird scene that I was like, does, because it alludes to the fact that he knows it's Deb. But we know he doesn't know it's Deb. Because at the end, he's still, like, you know, searching for whoever it is. And Lucas is like, he's not going to stop until he figures it out. Oh, that's right. Because he says this is the last thing tying you to it. Whitey.

You know, without this, he won't know it's you. Yeah, who does he think it is? Who is there? Because he doesn't know it's Deb yet. Oh. But let me tell you something. For as dorky as he looked in that tie. Barbara Allen Woods is killing it in this episode.

Oh, my God. Just, I don't know how her and Moira get like hotter and hotter and hotter as the goes on, but it gives me hope for my future. They do. I mean, ladies, I think we're all a lot hotter than we were when we were 25. 25 was very uncomfortable. We were very uncomfortable and awkward. We are in a whole other.

This is a nice decade, I've got to say, for us ladies. Yeah, feels good. We had, we have good examples set for us. Yes, we did. With our elder ladies. Yeah, Barbara, Barbara is so put together and so classy. She doesn't make a scene, you know, but she holds up her end of the bargain, and the second it's over, she just quietly is gone.

Yes. Yeah. She's like, great, you won. exactly what you needed and now you don't need me I'm not by your side anymore so I want the divorce and it's all going to go through I think Nathan says my mom's gone for good this time I think I don't know was Barbara's contract up for negotiation I don't know but like Deb wouldn't leave Nathan I thought that was so odd because her going you know to your point her saying I'm done standing by you I get that but the my mom left I was like she's leaving Nathan

They tried to run away together. Right. You know, from Dan. I'm confused about that, too, except that she's probably worried about the police finding out that she tried to kill Dan. And maybe she's going to get rid of something. Yeah. I don't know.

That was confusing. Hmm. Huh. Really nice to see Nathan and Haley get back together finally. Oh, girl. Exciting. That was hot. So nice.

Yes. Yeah. Also, there was just. way that Haley wouldn't have known the difference between Chris Keller and Nathan kissing. No, no way. She would have known. She knew. They're very different kissers.

Have we all kissed both of them? They also have very different faces. Yes. Yes, for sure. Sophia, have you kissed both of those boys on the show? Has Brooke kissed Nathan? I know that we saw the sex tape. Was Brooke kissing Chris Keller when they hooked up?

I don't remember. I don't think they ever showed you actually kissing him. I don't think I ever had to kiss him. It's funny because in my head, I'm like, well, Brooke took up with that guy and that guy and that guy. Brook hooked up with everybody. But, no, I don't think we ever actually had to kiss. I think we just woke up in bed together. Sorry, missed out.

I think it's realistic that Haley would have. I mean, in the middle of that party, she was really desperate. You've kissed both Chris Keller and Nathan. Yes. I've kissed both of them. They're very different kissers. Different kissers. But what I'm saying is, like, in the moment of the heightened...

You could get swept up. Like, how many people are going to be in a Batman costume like that? I don't know. And he just picked her up. And I could see how in the moment she would have been a little, like... And there was all the smoke around because he was flapping his wings and, you know... In wings, man. Flaping his wings.

I don't know. I can go with it. Well, you kind of say that... And to your point, you were like, you were like, I just wanted to believe. it's so bad. I wanted to believe it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. To your point, I think, how would there be two? And also, you go, something's off and then you go, but maybe not. You can kind of convince yourself, given the incredible misdirection of two Batman's. But it is also very funny because, you know, for us, like, we know these boys so well. We all spent 10 years

together. And it's like, yeah, you and James, as actors, did that scene. Like, Tyler didn't get in the Batman's suit and kiss you ever. Right. Tyler never put that suit on. He got the credit. Never had to do the work. Yeah. He didn't have to sweat in that suit.

Poor James was like trying to avoid getting heat stroke in the back of trip. Oh my God. They were like shoving ice cubes in his Batman suit. Let's talk about those boys. Because we all said it. We're like, we want to watch this movie. I want a movie. Full movie, road trip movie of those two.

We got robbed. That was a full... Teenage... They should have made that movie. Like, Teenage planes, trains, and automobiles with James and Tyler. Yes. Just them starting and stopping that car. We were all cackling.

It was so great. It's perfect. Their chemistry as actors and their comedic timing playing off of each other. It's Abbott and Costello. They're straight man and the funny man. It's a perfect combo. Great. Just loved it.

Do we think that Chris Keller is winning Nathan over? Like, Nathan, like, hits him. He seems to be. When he hits him all those times in a row, when he's like, stop kissing my wife. And he's like, I did it for you. He got him three to punch in the face three times in a row. Stop hitting me. Stop kissing my wife.

It was so funny. And Tyler is so willing to let Chris Keller be the butt of the joke. Like, even when they are walking away from crawling out of the swamp and James shoves him. Tyler almost goes to the ground. He doesn't like take a side step. He really leans into letting Nathan beat up on Chris Keller. And it's so winning. That's one of my favorite things about actors. If I see an actor who's totally willing to just make a complete ass out of themselves for the sake of the story or the character, it's the best. There's just no self-awareness. There's no like, oh, my hair or like, don't worry, don't touch my.

nails or my you know make sure this I don't want to get this shirt messy or what you know it's just like who cares now I don't want to look stupid I don't want my character to I don't want people to not like it like he just throw it all out the window and he just goes for it no matter what it's awesome I love it how do we think Chris Keller like what's that backstory you know we never really got Chris Keller backstory was he a nerd in school was he like I don't know what what create there's got to be some kind of pain or trauma to create a person now that like that for sure. I for sure feel like Chris Keller got dunked in some toilets.

Yeah. Like that was the era of that joke. Yeah. You know, this, we're talking about certain eras like, you know, Karen getting attacked for running for mayor as a single mom. Like, you know, there was like, we were really coming out of an era where at least movies and TV shows. Like, yeah, there was a lot of representation of like physical bullying, a lot of hazing. You know, you saw a lot of hazing happening like in cars.

challenges and things, which is so gross and scary. And, you know, we also, we don't, we don't need to, um, dig into it too far because we don't have to defend bad writing and y'all know what we believe in when it comes to our communities and equity. But like, there is a wildly inappropriate, quote, joke, you know, in this episode, um, both a trans character and a character played by a little person were made into the but of a joke in this episode and then three of us just went like gross

like gross um and you know who was that actor though he was on Seinfeld the um who played the guy was playing Marta the guy was playing Marty he is so good and he was so so talented and again like so super committed to to the material

and watching those boys on the riverboat which Hillary you said you've been on a murder mystery tour on that oh my god it's a point you guys on the Henrietta The Henriette. That was the best. Is it real?

I can't believe I never went. Ten years I never got on the Henrietta. I'm going to go this fall. Oh, Joy. It's fabulous. We have to go. It's still running? I mean, listen.

Isn't it? You guys, the Cape Fear River is a mystical experience. And sometimes you just have to go by paddle boat. I thought it was going to be way more like Huckleberry Finn on there. You know? I was like, I'm going to go get on that riverboat and do the murder mystery dinner. And so they bring you like your rubber chicken and, you know, like, you know, it's boat food. I don't, boat food doesn't have a strong reputation.

No. But then, like, all of a sudden it's like, clue is happening around you and like, zoink, someone's dead. And you've got to solve the problem and figure out who did it. But meanwhile, you're just like kind of in a motel six room because everything's like carpeted kind of weird. Oh, it's like the magic cat. Yes. It's been renovated since. I went in the old era of the Henry. We should go back. Yes. I only ever did. If it still needs a renovation, we know Sophia Bush can get on Pinterest and renovate it within. I would love to. Danny Woodburn is the one who

was playing Marty on the riverboat. I thought it was so fun. The idea of, that's what I mean about this episode being kind of, there's so much random stuff, but it all really worked and worked well together. The road trip of these boys, which is kind of could have been. been a bottle episode of its own and should have been a full-length movie, they ended up going on this riverboat and playing poker on the casino in the casino area of the boat and then the jumping into the river. And remember, they were there shooting. There were alligators in that river. They were shooting. They were in wetsuits. There were stunt guys. They were shooting until like six in the morning. But they got such great material. I just loved it. I thought it was such a

fun storyline. I can't believe anyone would get into the Cape Fear River voluntarily. Like, I... No, thank you. Yeah. That's why they didn't ask any of us to do it. They were like, let's get the boys. They seem like good sports. They'll jump in that river. But they had to have like gator wranglers

in the water, ready to intercept anything that came through. That's insane. You couldn't have paid me. I want to hand it to our crew. This is a really good episode to kind of brag on our crew because when you think about all of the big things they had to do they had to do a huge mayoral like inauguration kind of deal you know with all the balloons

and all the people and all the extras they had to do this huge riverboat where you're filming out on the boat and then you're out on the water and you've got to do stunt work in the water in the middle of the night you know they've got brooks whole fashion show which for for our wardrobe having to put together something like that is always kind of a big task um and then we did this split screen thing with Peyton that we'd never done before and was like very technically difficult because you have to lock off the camera and then go change so we had to change back and forth between Peyton and Angel I think a couple times it was very confusing um yeah that's a lot the

the specificity of our crew being able to handle all of those things in a what, eight day episode? Did we shoot in seven or eight days? Eight days. Eight days to do all of that

is a lot of work. Yeah. It really is. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer

because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other.

Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I really, you did such a nice story. job with that, Hillary. I loved seeing you play both parts in the same scene. I loved it.

You were great. Honestly, it feels like weird, like even talking about those scenes, because normally it's like you and another person, but when it's you versus you, there's, yeah, I've never done that before. What's that like? It's hard to wrap your brain around it a little bit because it either feels like you're picking on yourself or you're being self-congratulatory, you know? I feel like there were like one too many of those scenes we could have we could have done without one we didn't have to keep coming back to it but what i will say is that i had made a number of complaints about Peyton consistently being this like debby downer and like everything's sad like how do you snap a person out of that you call them on their shit but it it didn't really

fit to have anybody else call Peyton out and be like oh are you sad? about your mommy, what are you going to do about it? You know, I think the only way that it makes sense is to have Peyton say it to herself and be like, are we going to be a victim forever and ever? Yeah, yeah. And, you know, either you do the cheesy thing of having that conversation with yourself in a mirror, and you have to, like, recite a monologue, or you do the Mary Kate and Ashley Olson split screen, and you get to, I like this device. I like it.

I loved, you know what, I think I loved it because of what you're saying there that we have to do that in life. You know, sometimes you'll have a really good friend who's willing to step up to the plate and say things to you that are really hard and risk the friendship. But most of the time, people aren't willing to do things like that. And even if they do, it's not always, you can't always receive it right away. It takes time. And so it's important that we have that voice with ourselves that we're able to face ourselves in the mirror and say, hey, snap out of it.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself. Stop living in this space where you are constantly running the record in your head of all your failures and all the things that you could have done differently. Stop it. We've talked about the beginning of this season. Peyton's been really blunt with everybody. She was really blunt with Haley, where she's like, you left.

And you came back, and that's why I'm being a bitch. she was really blunt with Nathan when he drove into that wall and was like, you're trying to care yourself? You know? She's been really blunt with Brooke. Just like, go talk to Lucas. Why are you being a baby about this?

And so for her to be blunt with herself, I think tracks. Yeah. I also think there's something to, look, Peyton is being very blunt with a lot of people. She's in a position where her pain and what she's going through from the outside might make people say, well, she's

really strong. But she's having a hard time. And there is no, I think in life, there's often no worse critic than our inner critic. And, I mean, I said this tea while we were watching the episode, I was like, oh, this is making me feel crazy. Like, having to have a fight with my self-doubt, like Peyton is literally living in my hell right now. Yeah. It's not fun. And I think that it's as a device, yes, it's more interesting than watching someone have an argument with themselves in the mirror. But it also put an experience to something that so many kids deal with that we deal with as adults. But now we're in this moment where we're talking more about mental health and self-care and self-doubt and how, you know, feelings aren't fact. We have terminology. We didn't have that in 2005.

And I think for people to see what it really is like when that self-doubt spiral kicks off and you're listening to something criticize you all day and how hard that can be, I don't know. I found it, I know you love to tell a joke Hill, but I found it really powerful in terms of what it represented. and I would imagine that it helped people talk about what their inner dialogue sounded like to people that they trusted. At least I should hope. I mean, I hope that we all have inner characters that dress and costume.

Like, if your inner voice isn't wearing a fucking costume, what's the point? Right? Like, I feel like that pangel costume is probably more me and, like, bitchy. And I guess I was just so much more comfortable in that skin than like anything else that I did on the show. That was like my comfort zone. If I could just always be that awful, oh, man, I would have so much fun.

This is genius. This is, wait, we really should put costumes on our inner, our whiny inner child. Because, though, this is so good. Because you know what? When I, I could do this, we do this with, you can do this with kids. I did this with Maria. we would watch a movie and if something was really extra scary like a monster would come out and I would be like Maria he's only making that face because he's about to sneeze and all of a sudden she would you know her whole mindset about it would change and then she would be like kind of giggling and think something was really funny you know or like oh he's got he he can't uh I don't know he's got a really bad it's ear and he can't reach it or he's you know he's got a wager he's got a wedgy but can you imagine if if on your inner child, the one that's complaining, the one that was traumatized that's causing you all the

problem still in your adulthood, every time you see that child, it's just wearing a big, petulant, like, giant pink bunny costume, like a kid at a birthday party who's just been, you know, had the cakes spilled on them. And they're like, huh, I don't want it. It's after Fourth of July, which means Halloween stores and those like spirit costume stores are right about to open up all across America. We need everybody to go buy a costume for their inner asshole. Can someone explain one thing to me, though, that has bothered me ever since we shot this scene? What?

And I remember asking this question on the day. Pangel, like, leans in the doorframe of the closet, and it's like, closet full of anxiety, get it? And I didn't get it on the day. And I asked our script supervisor, and I asked our director, and I asked everybody, I'm like, what does that mean? What is the joke? And they're like, just say the lines, Hillary.

I was like, can we change it to something else? And they're like, just say the lines. I still don't know what it means. Is it a joke? I don't know. I don't get it either. Yeah, because is the point that she is anxiety personified and she's in the closet? And she's in the closet.

Are we talking about painting being in the closet? Oh, yeah. Like, what are we referring? Anxiety, sexuality. Did they not make a decision? And so they never made the line specific. Like, what is it? I think it's anxiety. I think that's what it is. She is, I'm your anxiety and I'm standing in the closet. And it's in the closet because you won't ever let it out. So it's like, that's a real, you got to dig deep for that one. Your feelings are in the closet. I don't know. If someone can make sense of it, cool. DM me. I'll read it. Like, it has always bothered me because I'm like, oh, we were really cooking here. And that just took the wind right out of my sales. So weird.

Whatever, man. Then there's nothing worse than when something pulls you out of a scene and you go, what? What? Because then you're just not present anymore. Would you guys ever do sometimes, like, as an actor, feel like, I don't understand this, but clearly, like, someone wrote it and a bunch of other people signed off on it. So I'm the odd man out. So if I ask, I'm going to look really dumb. All the time.

All the time. Yeah. Yeah. Especially with, I feel like also with my. with my ADD, I'm always, I can think really, really, really intensely about things that are very simple. And I hyperfocus, so then I can't get off of it. Like, I'm trying. And sometimes people think I'm just being a bitch. And I'm like, no, I'm like, my brain is stuck in a short circuit loop and like I can't get off of it. And I don't understand what this means. I did this with the guy's delivering my pods the other day. And we were trying to like line it up in the driveway.

And he was like, no, we just, well, we can't. We just don't have room. And I'm like, but I don't understand why you don't have room. Because I've seen. seen the truck move in it and he's like explaining all the mechanisms and I'm like yeah but if it just can we just put it on and he's like ma'am you're making this more complicated than it needs to be joy this is like a Snickers commercial someone just needs to show with a candy bar to distract you and be like your brain's that but but I feel that way all the time when I read scripts and I see things that and I'm I'm I'm the one who will be like I don't understand this can somebody explain it as soon as they say it I'm like I'm a fucking idiot yep got it totally

nailed totally could have gotten that myself if I had just gotten off of this loop. I don't know, Joy. I've had 15 years to try to figure out this closet full of anxiety and it still is just not happening. I just, I like to ask because, you know, in the way that our brains are similar, if I don't ask the question, just to be like, I just want to clarify something. Yeah. If I don't ask, I won't be able to stop obsessing over it. And then it's almost like I can't pay attention to anything else because I'm like, but this, but this, but this, but it's like a skipping record. Yeah. So I don't know. but here, by the way, you did ask

and you didn't get an answer. They didn't have an answer because they didn't think it out or they didn't bother to find out. And so they told you to basically like, you know, just go, like dance monkey. The last thing I'll say about the Pangel thing is this was, we talked about some nugget drops in this episode, Pangel makes this reference,

was Jake just trying to get in your pants and should Lucas be with you instead of Brooke? And that is the The first inkling that we have that, like, Rett Row, she's still interested. Yeah, because they've been so platonic, like, deeply platonic. I thought we worked really well together platonically, and now we've got this little tidbit. Yeah, that's interesting. Well, and it is a great little nugget because it does show you how far back they were thinking

about continuing to really lean into that seesaw that Lucas was going to make between Brooke and Peyton. And, you know, none of it was accidental. Like, you know, the writers were mining for drama. I don't know. Maybe by season three, they were like, well, we've been off for three years. We're going to do this for a long time. We better figure out a way to keep stirring the pot. Will they, won't they?

But because we were in the Lucas and Brooke, letter thing and and and and really in brook's feelings about not knowing if she could risk trusting him again it's easy to let that slide by but when we watch it back you go oh wow they were they were laying the pipe early they were well let's talk about bro i really wanted to keep that conflict going i loved i loved your performance in this episode yes i mean you really showed up it was so beautiful and so simple and you just, you know, one of the things I love about you as an actress is you're so good at comedy and you're so on top of it and you're, you know, you're so smart that you're paying attention to all the different elements and, and crafting your performance towards specifically

what is needed in the scene and also caring for your character. And, you know, it's great because you have all that stuff going on. But to see you just strip all of the stuff away, and by stuff, I don't mean that you, I don't mean to say that you're doing things. what I mean is that you're with when you're on for comedy we can count on you because you know how to put it all on and to see you as Sophia and Brooke just strip it all down and just stand there and not do anything and just be in your emotions it was I'm so glad that they wrote an opportunity for Brooke to do that and for you to do that as Brooke that's me making things overcomplicated but I hope you know what I know what I mean and I and I love

I love that because I was, especially in the earlier seasons, I was given a lot to juggle to do comedic relief. And it's fun to be a juggler. But when you do get to just stand and be exposed, you know, it's particular for Brooke in this episode because the whole point is that she's putting her defenses down. She's really kept the walls up and to lay it all on the line and say, this is how I spent my side. this is how I really feel. I'm terrified and it's painful for me to be raw like this. I wanted that for her because she she was such a character and I think this is somewhere where, you know, I feel like we're the most similar, a person who seems to project that they have it together, but who's very anxious, afraid, emotional, like things that people might not see. And so to be able to have people with whom you can really be yourself is so important. And it was nice to model that, I think, in these moments with a character like this. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a... television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I do want to add, not for nothing, you were going through a breakup with the person that you were playing a romance opposite of. And regardless of what all those circumstances were, that's incredibly difficult emotionally to be able to be vulnerable and be there in that moment. There's lots of actors who have done that and who've done movies and TV shows and things.

They date their co-star or whatever. It doesn't work out. But the fact that you were able to just be that wrong, open and vulnerable, it's a real credit to you as an artist that you put your art in front of everybody and just were like, look, this is it. I'm just sharing my heart. And here we are. I thought it was really beautiful. Well, that's a point for me, you know, and that people can call it whatever they want. They can say it's strength. They can say it's pride. They can say it's professionalism. You can put a positive or a negative skew on it. But I was always going to put Brooke Davis ahead of everybody and everything else. Yeah. Nothing mattered to me, but being honest for her. Yeah. Yeah. I was with someone on the show forever.

And when we broke up, it was crickets. No one gave a shit about it. No one was like, oh, I wonder what's going on with Hillary on set. Is she being crazy? Because they didn't know him, you know? And so the difference between our situations was crazy. This thing about making the girls on our show grovel. Oh, he didn't have seen so much. And then like for Brooke to do it, only for Lucas to turn around and be like, well, guess what?

I'm not mad at you anymore. Games over. I forgive you. I love you. Can you handle it? So for him to be like, first of all, so patronizing for a boy to be like, I forgive you for the thing you did that I actually have no right to be upset about. Yeah. But then for her to be like, you can't.

It's too awful. I was like, ew. You know, it was very odd that, again, that these men in their 40s wanted teenage girls to like apologize for who they were and beg men to be with them. I was like, I don't like this. I love forgiveness as much as the next guy, right? Like, how great is that to be able to forgive someone for doing something shitty to you? It's amazing. It's scandalous.

It's powerful. It's beautiful. It was totally out of context in this scenario. I was like, what are we doing? This is not the place. This is kind of tone deaf here, guys. Do we love Lucas? Because there were a couple episodes where, you know, I even said to the fan base, I'm like, yes, I want Brooke and Lucas together.

I see this couple. I think they have fun with each other. They're teenagers together, which is not what most of the relationships on our show were. Yeah, as teenagers, they got to be silly. And our show needed a little bit of like silliness and discovery. It couldn't all be like marriage and death and murder attempts. And like, Jesus Christ, it's a psycho. Psycho Derek, he's coming up.

Wait, we have to still talk about close over bros. We haven't really spent any time on that. We just like pour a little energy into close over bros. Because this is so exciting to see this come alive for the first time. Using Peyton's artwork. Yes. Which I guess do you guys have a fight about royalties later? I was like, does she get a licensing fee?

Like, wait, should Pete be rich? Like, what's going on? This is another one of those scenes that you know is going to blossom in future episodes. Yeah. Okay. I hope so. I love it. I loved. watching Brooke just get back on that horse and not be afraid and not just, you know,

implode into herself. And it's true. It's actually on theme with what we were talking about in last week's episode with the play that I wrote that, you know, it ended up, it's not mine anymore. And it took me years before I was able to write again because I was like, somebody stole my idea and they're taking it away from me. And it was like, and it was so, so heartbreaking. But I actually went back and watched the video of it, which I haven't seen since it came out. And it's like way too long. I was like, oh my God, it's 45 minutes in and like we haven't had conflict yet. Like, why is my play so long? This is like really long. But, you know, that's what workshops are for anyway. But but the point is, sorry, I'm, I'm ADDing. Okay, back. Hello. Okay. What I'm saying is that it's, it really is true that you cannot, and Paul used to say this to me all the time too. People can take your ideas, but they can't take your talent. And I love seeing that come to life with Brooke here because it's such an important lesson. And for anybody out there who feels like you gave your all to something and then it just got whisked away or fell apart or stolen or what didn't work

or whatever, nobody can take away your talent. You're always going to be able to create more and more and more and more. There's an unending supply of ideas and talent out there. And I love seeing Brooke go for it in six hours creating a fashion. Oh, my God. Warp speed. But there's the hyperactivity part when we talk about, like, our ADHD. We're like, that's it. That's what it is.

You just sit down and sew. That's it. But I did love, too, the sort of mirror. Like, I think back to when Brooke and Payton invented the selfie with a Polaroid and we fist bumped and we were like, hose over rose. And then here it is in these women, you know, trying to sort of reclaim their identity outside of their relationships. And I love that it's this moment in our apartment, in our first taste of adulthood. And it's between Brooke and Haley.

And it's, you know, oh, well, the thing I always used to say, like our girl anthem, now it's about our work. You know, it's close over bros. And it's like, oh, it's cute. I really, I made me so happy. You guys have such a strong dynamic together because there's a quietness to the interactions when it's just the two of you that is really tender. And those are the safe spaces where you can come up with new ideas. Those are the safe spaces like when Haley's like, of course I will help you.

I will make your website. Like, of course. Why would you think that I wouldn't? You know, like, I love watching that dynamic because I think for people who are struggling with female friendships, you know, like I didn't, I think we all have a lot to learn because a lot of the female friendships we saw on TV or we just like, you know, dealt with in high school, can be kind of toxic. Yeah. These are the moments to emulate where when your friend has an idea and you show up, that's like saying I love you with the biggest megaphone ever. Yeah. Yes. I agree. I love that.

I love that. You guys are kidding. What's this episode? Our sweatsuits. Listen, if I don't have a damn sweatsuit on this ass by September when my kids go to school, I'm going to be mad. Let's make it happen. I'm serious. We need them. We're working on it. We're working on it. In the meantime, let's spin a wheel and find out who's most likely to become a meme. I mean, Brooke Davis. How is there any other? There's like a billion Brooke Davis. You know what I love when I get on my phone to send my girlfriends, like, you know, like a shitty text or something, and I'm being a real dick. And I just look up a word where I'm like, you know, go to hell or whatever. And all of a sudden, it's all Sophia on there. It's all Brooke Davis on there. And I'm like, you can type any word you want to in the gift search on your phone, you'll come up. Wait, I need to start doing that more.

yeah also do you send memes of yourself to your friends by any chance yes I'm saying you've done that before right you have to have sent a meme of yourself you should you should Jenny sends me a lot of memes of the three of us and they're very good which character we should just start responding to each other only in memes of our of ourselves on our group thread completely is there like a week and see if we can do it is that yeah yeah you win both What to search for? You're fact and fiction. You win.

That feels fun. I love it. I love a meme. I really do. I should get better at sending them. Dan Scott's a close second, I think. He's such a legendary villain. Yeah, is there a You Can't Kill Dan Scott Giff?

There must be. If there's not there. No, but a couple weeks ago, there was one of the dog eating the heart that was circulating because in real life somebody was getting a heart off of a helicopter and they slipped and they fell and everyone started posting the Dan Scott Giff. No. What's a GIF? What's a meme?

I don't know the difference. I don't know the difference either. I'm too old. But seeing that circulate, I was like, oh, bro. Yeah, we're back. That poor guy. Like, imagine being the doctor who dropped the heart. It's probably fine.

Just hose it off. It just fell on the roof. Give it a quick saline wash. I don't know. Whatever. What's a little gravel? You guys, I love you. What are we doing next week?

Love you. What do we see? Episode 10? Episode 10. There you go. Yeah. Oh, I don't know. I got a bad feeling about this.

There's a brave new world. Indeed. Payton's got a crush on Lucas. Are we going to have to hear brooks letters oh god i want to watch a one-act play like the vagina monologues just of brook davis's letters summer letters to lucas so good okay oh god well i love you guys it'll be fun to do uh fun to see you next week yay see you guys later see you my love you hey thanks for listening don't forget to leave us a review You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-Harendh.

Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dramma girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion, but you'll tough girl.

You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.