Drama Queens - Competitive Nature ᐧ EP703

Episode Date: July 29, 2024

An awkward hug, a flip flop decision about Clay, and love interest jealousies headline this episode!  Find out the behind-the-scenes details of creative decisions that were made to compete with The OC and Gossip Girl. Plus, find out which two scenes left Sophia, Rob and Joy in hysterics!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion, but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Where are you, Rob? Funny story, Joy. I am at a hotel in my hometown, and I just had a very funny realization. There's a lot going on at the house this morning, so I figured I should duck out some place that I knew I could actually get some quiet. And it just dawned on me that I showed up to this hotel in gym clothes with a backpack and a stupid ear-to-ear grin because I was so excited to do this, right?

And I go to check in and she's like, I'm not seeing your thing. I said, oh, it was actually for last night. I'm only going to be here for a couple hours. And she was like, oh, okay. And I'm giddy. I'm like looking at my watch. And she's like, okay, here's your room. Like, great, great, thanks.

Thanks. See ya. And I thought, I didn't occur until I got to my room that she for sure thinks I'm having an affair. Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. I have a wedding ring. I'm wearing gym. I look like a guy who was like, honey, I'm going to the gym.

And then dipped out to the hotel in his hometown for an hour and a half. Why would I admit that? I guess because checkouts at noon. But so for sure, this hotel staff right now thinks that I'm the guy having an affair. Amazing. I think you should just keep it going. Just confuse everybody. Gives everybody something to talk about.

Guys, I'm just a boy with a podcast. I'm not having an affair. Oh, my God. That is the perfect way to kick off for this episode. Hello, everyone. Well, here's back to Drama Queens. We have season seven, episode three. Hold my hand as I'm lowered air date September 28th, 2009.

Hey, Sophia, you want to read the synopsis? I sure do, Joy. The synopsis of this episode, ladies and gentlemen, is Clay and Nathan disagree on how to handle an ever-worsening scandal, and Haley begins to wonder if Renee's accusations have merit. Quinn and Brooke organize a photo shoot and mouth ups the stakes in his battle with skills. Meanwhile, Alex makes Julian an interesting proposition. And of course this episode was directed by Liz Friedlander. She's just so great with pace. So before we get started, I have to tell you guys, for all you friends out there, I am in Cooperstown, New York, because my nephew is playing in the Cooperstown tournament.

If you don't know much about baseball, it's like a little league, 12-year-olds get chosen from, their teams get chosen from all over the country and selected to come, like the best of the best all over the country. They come play. There's 95 teams. And then they all play all week and whittle it down into the final two. and then there's a championship. So it's very exciting. So I'm here with the whole family in the woods to watch my nephew play baseball. And we were all piled on top of each other.

And there's a lake and the kids. And it's all to tell you that I did not watch the episode of Zils. So you have to. Gasp. You guys are going to have to tell me what happened. I was like, where are we going with this? I love the setting. I know.

I'm sorry. So I am now going to be the fan who is listening to the episode. Like, I don't remember this. So what is it that's going on? So you're going to have to fill me in a little bit. Fortunately for you, I think Sof and I are overachievers, and I'm pretty sure. I don't want to speak for you, soap. I think it's safe to assume you as well took copious notes.

I sure did. We can cliff notes that's in our sleep. Excellent. Excellent. I'm so sorry. This is the first time in the history of our drama queens where I have not watched the episode. But I apologize and super appreciative for the way that you guys show up. And we'll fill in the blanks for me.

I appreciate your honesty because I actually was wondering this the other day. I thought, I wonder if there's ever been a time where one of them hasn't watched the episode. And then I thought, if I was in that spot, would I come out and just be honest and lead with it? Or would I play that game of, yeah, no, yeah, just yes anding everything and to see if I could like sneak by. So way to be brave, Joy, way to be honest. It's trying to, try to be real, y'all. So somebody start because it can't be me. So we open on a French cafe and a little boy doing a yo-yo, a catwalk spot.

No, I'm kidding. So where do we start? We actually open on you, Joy. The first shot of the episode is Haley looking through the sonogram image and the photos of Nathan and Renee at that party, half of which Clay is in the background of, which was a nice little touch on behalf of set deck. so Haley knows and this is going to this is going to get real yeah do we know what James or what Nathan told her like was it is he's sticking to his story right like it's all the same thing that he's told Clay yeah yeah yeah he he's adamant that he hasn't done it

which is great because then he's constantly infuriated that we're even entertaining any options of paying this woman off she's asked for 200,000 thousand dollars to go away you are incensed by that uh rightfully so so that's kind of where you are at and then um i don't want to get ahead of it but yeah it leads to sort of a bunting of heads between clay and haley because that in fact this is the scene joy when i was telling you my first memory of this show is you screaming at me on a on an outdoor patio set it's it was this episode it's when you show up to clay's beach house and you're basically laying into me saying like what are you do how dare you yeah you didn't do it why would you let this

happen and yeah uh it's it's a it's a great scene and it also um we're jumping ahead of it but i'm curious so if you if you notice the same thing we reconcile that scene a few a little bit later where i come down the pier and talk to you and i end it with an extraordinarily awkward questionable choice yeah you should we just should we just talk about it right now Get into it. Okay, so you lay into me. Clay has a fair counter argument, which is, this is Nathan's dream. He's worked incredibly hard for it.

It's a contract year. This could really make everything go sideways. So this might be a worthwhile investment. It's one commercial, and if it helps him get his deal, it saves the big picture dream. Which you hear, but is also, of course, infuriating. You walk away from my house down, like down the pier, and I come meet up with you. And it's a bit calmer heads prevail situation where I'm like, I hate this too. It just seems like the smarter play.

You're like, okay, we come to an agreement. And then Clay slash me made the choice to go ahead and put a creeper arm around you. Oh. The only thing I could think in my head was maybe I was trying to subtly tell the story that we have now known each other a while and we've grown close. okay That seems reasonable That said I still though

put the arm around you And at the very end Go back viewers You can see I kind of give you The little thumb rub on the shoulder Like you do with the kid or a loved one And I just felt like the combo of the two

It just was enough for me to go Nah Come on Clay What's also hilarious to me Is that the choice is made after the two of you have been arguing up on the porch and Haley is literally like but you know what it looks like like you know how bad this looks even though he's a good guy

and and Clay's argument is he's a grown man and you go so are you act like it it's like such a great moment and and then I'm like anyone who took a photo of Clay and Haley on that pier from a distance when he puts his arm around her and she lean, Joy, you lean your head back on him. I'm like, it looks like two people on a date. It looks bad.

Didn't we just cover this? Scandal all around. Yeah. I don't know, though. I think you're absolutely right, Rob. I think that was super intentional. We wanted to create the sense of familiarity that you've been around for a long time. Because we definitely, you know, I feel like especially at the beginning of this.

season with new characters, there's a sense of kind of overcompensation maybe of like we're just working really hard to make the audience believe it and not just trusting. But also that seems totally reasonable if you have been around for a long time. I mean, I don't know. Do I like do I let my friend, it's not like you're married. I guess if it was like my friend's husband, it might be a little more uncomfortable, but you're a single guy, but I'm married. I don't know. Also, we've never seen Clay hug you yet. We've seen us interact in scenes and we haven't been physically affectionate. So it was just odd that, as Soap was saying, on the heels of a conversation of appearances. Yeah. That on the heels of this was the time. This was a moment

where I felt like, yeah, you're right. I understand us as actors making that mistake because we're in this bubble in this moment trying to create this world. This is the job of someone behind the monitor who's just watching it on the square needs to go, nah, the optics look a little weird guys. That's tough for a visiting director to come in. I mean, Liz had been in and out of the show, but that's a tough job because she doesn't know what's coming and she only has the information that she's been given from the previous episodes, but there's so much, there's so little time in prep that it's not like visiting directors

have time to just read all the previous scripts of the last four episodes and then make sure they can't even see the edit because the edit's usually not done by the time they start prep. That's hard. It's hard to be able to put every little thing in context. Yeah. When you're just dropping in for a couple of weeks. Yeah. And I will say the first pass of it, I was like, it's siblingie. And then it just made me giggle. thinking about, like, what the long-lens paparazzi photo of it would look like. Yeah. But I also get that other point, you know, that if you've got a director visiting who says,

well, what's the relationship between your characters? And it's like, he's like a brother to me. He's my husband's agent. And then they go, yeah. Okay. Yeah. So I don't know. It's hard.

I wonder if there would have been a smart PR move to have a paparazzi on a long lens take that photo. And then that also would get leaked. And then it's like, ooh. Everybody thinks it's lots of scandal. But then if you find out that the thing with Clay and Haley is just really nothing and he's just consoling her and they're being friendly, then maybe the public would be less likely to believe the thing about the other woman too. And they just throw all the baby out with the bathwater and the whole thing gets thrown in the wash. Maybe that's what a crisis comes.

I don't know. I'm like, well, that's dark. Yeah, and that wasn't me taking a swipe at Liz. That was more just that thing of the like sometimes you don't know when you're the actor in the scene just with the. outside appearance of it, you know, it looks like. Well, and that's when you really hope one of, to your point, one of our producers, like who watches every day is actually on set for that scene. And they can go, I get what you're going for, but it looks a little weird.

No, exactly. It is the job with the people who are there long term to be able to jump in and fill in those blind spots because a visiting director only has so much capacity. So it really does depend on that. So somebody, maybe somebody dropped the ball. I don't know. Or maybe it worked, fans. I don't know.

What do you guys think? Did it work? Did it make you feel endeared to Clay? Yes. Let us know. I'm actually so curious. Please let us know if you thought it was creepy or sweet. Yeah.

Brotherly or me? Because I think, actually, now that you say that, Joy, I do think we were trying to go for a very familial brother-sister thing. So let us know. Fans, was it? creepy brother or sweet brother I feel like creepy or sweet could be a really fun thing to do

at the end of episodes it's like a list off like a carnival game this episode was this might just be every episode again I'm basically watching the series fresh as a new viewer but I've in all three episodes so far

I've walked away going this was juicy like there's there is not a shortage of good content to really get into i mean this one this one starts off hot and kind of stays that way the is that just every episode of this show is this is this why the show is what it is i don't not every episode i don't think no there's some filler space episodes yeah but this one was fun and i think liz gave us a great

indicator that it would be right from the jump because all of the opening scenes happen so fast and there's so much movement and, you know, tension and humor and whether it's this low moment for Haley or the, you know, comedy of like Brooke and Julian and then skills, you know, getting naked and getting scared. And then Alex having been out all night in the shower gag, like it's flying at you so fast. And each thing is juicy. Like each little beat has a detail to it that we haven't really either seen before or that we know we want to see more.

of her skills and mouth. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of year. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories,

such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And speaking of Brooke and Julian, shout out to Austin for being the sacrificial lamb in that opening vignette where he is wildly gratuitously and unnecessarily just shaving in his underwear. it was like oh yeah okay and a part of me was like sorry buddy i didn't take my shirt off last episode so that went down on you you're the team player apparently yeah you brook just walks by julian she says something and he's just standing in his boxer briefs shaving and is like okay

he could have been doing literally anything and they're like nah they had to fill their quota was this the time in the show where other we were it was switched over to cw by then because you know We started out on the WB, and then there was that merge with UPN and CW, or they created CW. Was this the point where we were officially competing with the O.C. and Gossip Girl and all those shows where it was so much, so much gratuitous, whatever, like sex, sex, sex everywhere. They just wanted to make sure that you guys had your shirts off on the beach. They wanted to make sure that somebody is naked in every episode. They sure seem to. but let me tell you what.

I had two thoughts when that scene hit. First was, thanks Austin for being the sacrificial lamb, so I didn't have to do it. And also, good for you, sir. Like, Austin was surfing every weekend. He looks so good. And I was like, someday you're actually going to love that you have this. I hated when people used to say that to me when we were in our 20s,

and they'd be like, someday you'll be thrilled you knew you looked like this. But I was like, you know what, that's going to be nice for you to have someday. congratulations, my friend. You look great. Yeah, I recently worked with the director who did an episode of our show. And I was asking him, oh, what did you do? And it was during the time when Julian was just sort of being introduced. And he was like, yeah, it was when they were introducing, you know, Austin as the new sex pylon. And I went to me, I went, what? I had never heard the term sex pylon, but I have to say when I was watching that opening vignette. And he's just standing there looking a man. I thought, you know, it's not, it's a, it's a bit objectifying, but sex pylon, that shoe fits. It tracks. Yeah. It tracks. By the way, I, Rob, I know you didn't take your shirt off in the last episode, but I do not want you to feel left out.

And since we did start on the Clay and Haley of it all, I literally have in my notes when you guys get out for that beat on the pier where you're like really being like, but this is the thing. And we might have to do it. And it's like the notes about this scene and then in all caps, Rob has beautiful. full skin. Like, I literally made a note. I was like, sir, do you, like, the close up, you have no pores. Also, congratulations to you. Wow.

Thank you. I think, by the way, I have it in here somewhere. This, I think this is the episode. So when I first got on, there was it worried that I wasn't quite old enough for the role, but I looked a little baby-faced for it and for what they wanted me to be doing. And so, of course, their Hollywood solution was, grow some stubble. And at this time, I mean, you've seen the extent of my stubble at the time. And I think this was the episode where we just went, let's just go clean-shaven.

Like, I remember it wasn't comfortable for me. And by that point, they had seen enough dailies to go, you just, you still look like a baby-faced kid with just a little bit of stubble. So there's a scene later on. Yeah, it's actually the scene with joy where I put my arm around her, where if you notice, all of a sudden, Clay's clean-shaven. I think that was the moment on the show where they went, let's just give up the ruse and just go clean-shaven. So do you stick with that clean-shaven for the rest of the show?

I believe so. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. Cool. Yeah, you do have beautiful skin. You should have gotten a men's grooming campaign off of that show. Gosh, let's just talk about my skin for the next hour. Say more about it.

No. One thing I thought that was so awesome in this episode is all of the Alex, Brooke, and Millie stuff. Tell me all about it. So I just want to start by saying, Jana does such an incredible job with this role. She is so good. She's so good.

She's so good. And I think because I wasn't doing many scenes there, I was just in the dark about it. But, you know, one thing I love about a character is when it's hard to make a decision on who they are. Like, I like a bad guy with some humanity. I like a good person with some flaws. And what's so great is there's a couple moments in this

because she is so over the top, just dumpster fire, dumb, self-absorbed. And then she has these moments of sincerity or self-awareness that, so she's hilarious a little episode, just getting ahead a bit. But there's also an amazing cameo by our artist Tim, who plays her makeup artist at the shoot. And there's a moment where she's on the,

at the shoot. and she says it's it's her and Millie and Tim is doing her touchups and she says how do I look and Tim goes ahead and answers and he goes fabulous and without skipping a beat she goes I didn't ask for the help I didn't ask the help Millie how do I look and Millie goes why are you asking me and she goes because you're the only one who's honest with me here and it was that great moment of oh but you're you're also smart enough to see what's going on yeah and then there's some stuff later in the episode but so talk about that because you're your stuff with her, I mean, when you try to get the dog out of, or excuse me, she comes in and

tries to slam a pill when she's jet lagged and hung over for the shoot. And she announces to everyone, I just need a pill and she puts a pill in her mouth. Sof does a bit where she runs over and tries to get the pill out of her mouth exactly the way you would a dog. It is so funny. It was so fun. I'm seeing it in my mind. I can totally picture this. Oh my God. It's so, I mean, Janet is so funny. I am, I'm relishing in watching her as a viewer and not as a scene partner. Because as a scene partner, I had to be irritated all the time, which was hard because she's so fucking funny. And now I'm just getting to laugh. But I forgot what happened in that scene. And yeah, I mean, she puts a pill in her mouth and I grab her face like this so she can't close her

lips and literally just dump her head over like from the back of the neck i grab her by the back of the neck it's i yelped it made me laugh so hard genius it's just so good and milly catches the pill around the mountain the whole thing it's it's just like parental gone sideways and it's so it's so funny and i think it is so hilarious because of how hard jana commits and then we just have to react around her and it's it's perfect she does commit all the time and i agree with you rob it's so interesting to watch a character that keeps you on your toes it's the it's the same it's a jean wilder thing with at the beginning of willie wonka and the cane right where he comes out and it's just like the you think he's one thing and then he flips over and reveals himself to be

someone that you never quite know what's really going on and i love that i don't know that we have another on the show like that. Like, Dan, you always really know at the baseline what's actually going on no matter what he's putting up. But I like this. I like the introduction of a character that's so complex and she's got so many, so many different layers. Jana manages to play her in this way where she leans into everything horrible so much, but there's clearly something under there. Like, she's, she, she, Alex is the kind of character that drives you crazy, but something in you likes her. And I made a note, I was like, oh my God, I'm having the joy experience. When I, when we get to the end of the episode and I'm watching like the genuine flirtation between

Alex and Julian, I hate it. I'm like, I hate that. Oh, I really don't like that at all. Wow. Oh, my God. I remember when Joy said this about Haley not liking seeing Nathan with somebody because you, yeah. And then I was like, Well, I guess maybe that's part of how you know as an actor that you're in the right, like, endgame relationship. Because I was like, oh, no, I hate this part. Like, Julian is Brooks person. Ma'am, go away. Yeah. Excuse me, ma'am.

Bye. But, like, they're so good and so likable. Then I'm watching it going, well, of course he likes her. Look at her. How could you not like her? She's so funny and horrible, but great. And then what they did that was so smart was because it wasn't just a, about a physical thing.

It would have really kind of put Julian in a bad light if it was just a pretty girl flirting with him and him entertaining it. What it actually becomes is she shows up at Brooke and Julian's place with a script. She's like, I know you think I'm dumb. I am, but I also know what I'm doing. And this is a good script and you're a producer and you should read it.

So, and then it's like, okay, it's not just that he's chasing the next pretty thing. actually something here that he finds intriguing and there might be a business it was just a great way to sort of allow what happened to happen without it being like is he not the guy we thought he was yeah he's endeared to her because she is smart and it's rooted in the purpose he feels like he's lacking she pushes his buttons early in the episode joy and asks why he's not doing that movie in new zealand and he said he was looking for something else and it later comes back around where she essentially says, oh, you thought I meant the something else

could be me. No, it's this script I have for you. And so she's meeting him in the space of like loss and lack with, you know, purpose, maybe his next creative thing. And so there's like a passion to bond over and not just an energy. Yes. And she allows that that moment to happen, which is great. you're business savvy, you're not just a one-note terrible person. And then literally in the same breath goes, actually another boy's having me tonight, but I can come by afterwards if you want. So it was like she earned a moment and then was like, but I'm Alex. So no.

Yeah. But I love that. That's what keeps me giggling. And then I'm like, God, just when I felt something about this energy, now I want to punch her all over again, great. I appreciate how complex she is. Hey, random sidebar, I love Gene Wilder. Did you know that he told the director of Willy Wonka, that was that whole move where he walks with the cane and then rolls and jumps up, that wasn't in the script.

That was Gene's idea. And he said, I'm not doing the movie if we're not doing it. And the director said, are you serious? Why? And he said, because it sets up the entire movie that if I do that from that point on, you won't know what's real and what's make believe. Isn't that a genius? I mean... So genius.

So smart. Incredible. Yeah. Speaking of smart, let's talk about Rachel because... Oh, my God. Rachel and Dan's story unfolding this episode, I thought, was told so incredibly well. It was my favorite thing. The shot of when Rachel reveals that she was the one...

Sorry, Joy, this is when Paul is doing his show, excuse me, Dan's doing his show. Yeah. When a man stands up mid-show and is like, murder, murder, and it catches him off guard, but they roll, and Rachel says, roll the cameras. Then they come back to it after, and when it's after the show and Rachel walks up and, and Dan says, like, I'm sorry. And she's like, don't be, I planned that. There's this great moment. So, first of all, you realize she is just so business savvy. Yeah.

And also, like, does she care about him or is it business? But then, isn't this end of that scene great? So if I thought Liz did such a good job where it has raped the shot. has watches Rachel walk off stage, but she literally, it's just her silhouette, and she walks into darkness and just fades to black. Oh, ho, ho. It was so well lit. That got me.

And what I loved about their story is you see, you see her power as, you know, his business partner and wife, and he does that. He'll be like, my producer, who's also my wife, is how he brings her on stage in this episode. It just was like, oh my God, you see not just her savvy in the moment. You get the flashbacks and you see it go back. So you see when they meet. Because when he brings her up, they start doing this whole storytelling about like, oh, and when we met, we wanted the same thing. And it was so chaste and like, he's wasted in a strip club. And she recognizes him and is performing. And, you know, you have all these scenes of them in this motel. And he's drinking himself to death.

reading all these self-help books and she's kind of going at him about what a lazy, you know, way that is to try to fix yourself. And then he says something and she realizes like, oh, that's a self-help book. And immediately she makes him stop quit drinking. She's like, don't drink that. I need you. Do you want to get out of here? And I was like, I'm obsessed with her. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Wiley. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. The show is very good at not letting you figure people out right away or just giving multi-layered portrayals of people because that whole flashback storytelling starts with her in a strip club. And so you're like, okay, she's the hot girl who's a stripper now, whatever. And then, yeah, like, so I was saying it ends with her being smart enough to realize there's an amazing business opportunity here where we can both. get out of this route. And there's also

the way that the storytelling and the way it's shot is so great because they finish having sex and they roll off each other. And she says not bad for a guy with a bad heart. And he says, why don't you stay the night and see if you can kill me? And she says, that'll be expensive.

And he says, that's okay. I'm rich and I'm dying. And then it cuts to them in the present day on stage being sweet and polished. And she's like, he had everything I wanted. He's like, and so did you. And I thought that was such a great moment of sort of, like, exposing how much hypocrisy there is in terms of, like, how people portray their lives to be versus what it actually is, you know? And they did such a good job with their stuff.

It was great. And they're so subtle together. And you watch. And I think that's where you see Paul and Danil a bit, because they're both so smart. And you watch in these quiet moments with Dan and Rachel. they're having this real tete-a-tete. You see their sort of reactions and looks communicating with each other before they speak.

And it's so refreshing because you know that when they're on the talk show set, they're performing, but when you get to see underneath when they're not, it actually made me such a fan of them as a unit. Yeah, and getting to see, again, that he's so sweet and soft with her. You know, he's so charismatic on campus. camera, but then he kind of becomes a little boyish around her, you know? And so again,

it's that it's not making it easy to figure him out. Is it really still drawing out the mystery that we were discussing last time of seeing him with his, God, Rob, I meant to mention it last time. You used this phrase, the man experiencing homelessness instead of saying a homeless man. I just thought that was such a lovely phrase. But yeah, so he was sitting down with that man and we were talking about how it seems there's this ambiguity of like where is he is he actually trying to change is does this episode continue that question or is it more clear that it's like no he's definitely a full hypocrite and this is all a ruse i think it no i think it's still very much telling a story where this could be the new dan because what they're showing in the story part of it is he was a guy

at rock bottom who wanted to die and now he seems to be a man with purpose so up until this point you can be suspect of her because her trajectory does seem quite opportunistic whereas his seems genuine and she's not being forthright that she used to be a hook well a stripper I guess if she's charging him

then she's a prostitute also but like she's not being forthright that this is where I used to be and now I'm in it I've recovered from the position that I was in before I don't know so is it like we're hiding this or she's being open about it? No, no, because when we first, when we first see him on the talk show, he says, my wife used to drink and sleep around. Use drugs and all the things.

Okay, yeah, yeah, that's true. So that when he first, I remember hearing for the first time going, ooh, buddy, you are roasting your wife. Do we need to be this honest? But no, so they, to their credit, they've been pretty forthright with, yeah, we came from a pretty unhappy place. yeah i don't think they're being forthright about their first date night right but they are very open about who they used to be you know the the the sort of um stereotype of the broken person i used to be yeah thing we shall see i want to know what happened with mouth and skills oh first of all one of my my very first notes is i love the pickle that we have found mouth in

Because it opens with him at the news station and his station manager coming up and going, hey, your buddy who's Nathan Scott? Oh, yeah, old buddies. Great. He went into a restaurant and flipped out on a woman the other day. And can you look into it? And then he meets up with Nathan at Rivercourt and has to ask him. But what I loved about it, mouth is such a big heart, man. He's such a good friend because he asked Nathan and he doesn't ask if it's true first. The first thing he says was, I'm so sorry, man. Yeah. You know, and he ends the conversation with, Nathan says, what are you going to do? And he says, nothing.

Let me know if you need anything. I thought, oh, man, that's a buddy. He's got his back, you know? And to Nathan's credit, because he knows the situation that Mouth is in, after mouth says that and starts to walk away he stops him and goes hey you do what you got to do you have the job to do if you have to report you report you know and i thought that was there was so much respect shown between the two wow that's tough right yeah because what do you do it's like you always of course you want to believe the best in your friends but then you have to sort of

entertain an allegation i thought it was i thought it actually was kind of quite timely with sort of everything that has happened with me too and everything in the past where i thought oh Oh, it's like, yeah, how do you reconcile if someone you love has done something, you know, that you don't agree with or that is just straight up bad, you know? And I thought, oh, my gosh. So when the episode started, I thought, oh, I can't wait to watch you walk this line, buddy. Wow. I love that. I love Nathan just giving him the permission to do his job.

Be like, it's not going to affect our friendship. I know you have a job to do. I know you're not going to do something salacious and try and do a hit piece. on me or hurt me like but I also understand the position you're in and it's a small town like you have to report what you report and whoa that's tough but that's that's that's a lot of that's a lot of honor and courage stand up guy a boss move because if he he knows he's innocent then why not yeah yeah it's sort of his conviction that he's like I know how the story in so you do what you got to do. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, one way or the other. Eventually, a paternity test happens and he knows

that the information will come out. Also, that's a real hole in her whole issue. Like, she's trying to get $200,000, but for what? Like, wait, wait six months and find out. Well, or is the goal to get the money before you can find out? If Renee is really the person we're led to believe she is, right? Like if she's the kind of, you know, stereotypical, you know, vixen, horrible person who would do this to some family, like, okay. But, you know, if so, is the whole idea to get paid before you could get an amnia or any of those other tests. Yeah, but if she knows that it's not real and it's not true and she knows that he knows and she knows that he knows, then And not to make it too complicated, but like, why not just wait six months?

Because I think what she's doing is playing off the fact he is in a contract year right now and he is trying to get a new deal and this could really hinder his value. I think that's what they're going for is that it's entirely calculated that she knows he's up for something right now and this would not help his case at all. Yeah. But also, let's be honest, it's the NBA that would not hurt him. NBA has no problem paying people who do all sorts of things. I mean, all professional sports.

So it's kind of a altruistic assumption on the NBA's part. But I think that's what she's going for is that she knows he's in a time crunch. And so she's just trying to capitalize on that. You have a great line joy at the start of this episode where it's when you and Nathan are talking about it for the first time in the kitchen. And you're looking at the party pictures of, she and Nathan and Clay off to the side. And you say, drunken sluts with perfect teeth. I wrote that down too.

I loved it. Yeah. It was also a really good scene because you see the simplicity of the situation. Nathan is like, I get asked to take pictures all the time. And you are explaining that because it's late and she, she looks the way she looks and his arm is around her and she's carrying a cocktail and he's got a beer in his other hand like you know him you know this is normal and you say but it looks bad and you should be smart enough to know that yeah and that's such a thing right like in our world

it doesn't always matter what's true it matters what something looks like absolutely and what I loved is that you seem to be clearly communicating that you believe him and you know this isn't true but you know that everyone who likes to shit on people out there in the world I mean hello look at the internet that they're going to go he did it I can tell by that photo that meaningless photo I see something and some stranger will decide that what didn't happen is true and you'll never be able to convince them otherwise totally that is so tough. That is such a tough road to navigate. I mean, for everyone in the public eye or anyone in leadership positions, like teachers who need to make sure their doors open when they're meeting

with a female student, you know, to whatever you're, I don't know who you're sitting within a restaurant or what you're posting online. It's like there's an element of, okay, I'm a human being. I get to live my life and I can't be wandering around worrying about everyone in pleasing everyone in everyone's mind thinking making sure that everybody knows and sees me the correct like I just it's too much you could never but then there's also a tier of responsibility depending on the position that you're in and I don't know that those lines are clear cut but it is an interesting topic to explore yeah and what's fun about the the mouth dynamic of it is he doesn't have the luxury of all of Nathan all the other people

in Nathan's lives where he can kind of sit back and wait for things to unfold. He's a bit in a, a pressurized situation because he is going to be forced to speak on it, speak on it in one way or the other publicly. You know, so he doesn't get to kind of sit back and go, I don't believe it, but let's just see. You know, he has to actually come forward and start reporting out. So I liked that because I was immediately stressed out for him. Yeah. I'm like, oh, I don't envy this position at all, you know. And the way the days diverge is so interesting because Mouth's day starts off hilarious.

You know, Skills gets up, immediately drops trow, walks out into the living room, and then you hear him scream at the top of his lungs, and you see Mouth walking out laughing, adjusting his tie on his way to work. And, like, they're having this fun day, and then he just gets slammed sideways. and then the central theme in such separate ways for Mouth and for skills is really about friendship. But Malth is dealing with this crazy thing with Nathan and skills calls Jamie to help him trap a lizard. It's like they could not be having more opposite days, but they circle back around together to each other on this subject at the end. And hearing them talk about their friendship was like even more weighted, I guess, for me, given what I'd seen Mouth just do with Nathan and their friendship.

It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native comic. or the importance of reservation basketball every day native people are striving to keep

traditions alive while navigating the modern world influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream listen to burn sageburn bridges on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts jamie was once again the wise little owl who skills and initially calls to come over to help him with the iguana. And there's a hilarious exchange where Jamie's there and he's like, all right, so how much you're going to give me to do it? And he goes, all right. And he pulls out like 20 bucks from his pocket.

And he goes, cool. He says something like, this is catching cat money. That's catching a mouse. That's catching a mouse. And so he starts, he's bargaining up skills. So skills is like, come, has to give him all the money in his pocket. And he's like, now I can catch a dragon. This is something like, this isn't small dragon money.

or something. But what it ends up becoming is then skills sort of downloading the situation with mouth to Jamie. And again, Jamie, just being a child, he just sort of says what's obvious, what's simple, and what's honest. And skills, you know, sort of tells him what's going on. And Jamie just goes like, why haven't, what did he say when you said that? And he's like, oh, I guess I haven't said any of that.

It's like, yeah, dumb, dumb, tell him how you feel, basically. you know talk to your friends yeah talk to your friend right but again it's just funny it's like it's the child who's able to see it the most clearly i have a question so if i guess this one's for you but joy you can wait on this so later in the episode there's a fun there's a fun bit where um brook takes quinn and i think milly joins as well out to trick for a drink because and haley in haley's area that's right because they go out because Haley's having such a hard time with what's going on, with what's transpired. And because at this point, it looks like they are leaning towards having to pay $200,000

to this woman who's lying. So Haley is out of sorts. It looks like, I'm going to take you to trick. We're going to drink. And so there's some funny stuff there. But towards the end of it, Alex walks up to Clay. Clay's drinking and she's like, oh, it's tequila. I used to love that.

And Clay's like, oh, cool. and he takes a shot and she kisses me as soon as I've had the shot like presumably to get like a little taste on her lips and then when she throws herself at me I'm like great be at my house in 30 minutes her exit move is she licks my neck

and my first thought was ew and has nothing to do with Alex or Janet's just I don't want anyone's anyone licking me but my question was was there ever a time when that was hot would that ever work for you if a dude licked you first of all was this in the script it had to be i think it was meant to be kind of like a because she kisses him to get the tequila does the lime and i i think it was like a oh you're looking for sweating you're looking for

salt was what i thought was the idea but no if some if a person just licked me they'd get punched in the face period That's so, I mean, you guys are flirting and kissing And clearly arranging to like have a little sexy time But like If just a human in a bar Licked me No, dog, you're getting punched right in the mouth

Yeah, this This felt like one of those moments where I was keenly aware Of how much time has passed for me Between shooting this series and where I am now Because at the time I did not bump on it I probably thought, yeah, This is hot. And now, at 43 years old, I watched it and I went, ew, disgusting.

Ew. That would be my heart out. I'm done. I got to go wash my neck. Is it a strong lick or was it like a little, like a little taste? No, Joy, it was strong. She committed. Like a head grab and a, and a, what would you say?

Like under collarbone to under ear? 100%. It went clavicle almost to earlobe tip. No. That's a lot of real estate. a lot of delicate real estate also close to my nose. So if you have bad breath, I might catch

a whiff of it and then I'm for sure throwing up and we can never see each other again. Never. It's a nightmare of mine. Listen, inside into my childhood trauma, one of the things my mom used to do to me was once I got too big for her to be able to like wrestle me or manhandle me and she knew she'd like

lost that, she would lick her finger and wipe it on me. No. Unfortunately, I swear to God, it's the truth. And it disgusted me to no end. So she knew it worked. So I got to say, I also am bringing

emotional baggage into this reaction. I'm going to own that listener. I get it. But I still think it's disgusting. You know what I will say, Rob, is bravo to you. Because what that is is you identifying a trigger. And clearly, your therapist is great. Gold star from Trevor. Hey.

My guy. I don't know. I'm thinking about this. I'm like, I'm trying to be, I'm trying to be, I've tried to be fair. Like, I don't know. If I met somebody in a bar and we're flirting and it's like going well and we do shots. And then they lick you like a basset hound? Not.

Not the strong lick like that I could not handle. Like maybe like a little tongue tough, like just like a little taste before we walk out the door together. Like, but in a kiss, you mean? Not in. No, no. You walk like an isolated event. I don't know why my instinct is this. I don't know.

No, no, you would want to kiss instead. Yeah, but we're like it's a, no, I feel like I could see it being a little sexier from a girl than a guy for some reason. Well, can confirm. All right. Two things, though. You have to go to YouTube and watch what Sof was just how she was just trying to pantomime. Please. I just am like, what's the scene?

What's the blocking? Also, I realize. Like, we're so Pavlovian. I have this little square. So I'm trying to fit all my action into it. And then I just look like a mole. Like, I don't know what I'm doing. But, yeah, I don't know, man.

That feels like a little much, the clavicle to ear situation. It was a big lick they had her do. She's a real team player, Janet. She went for it. Yeah. I actually think what may have happened was, correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe when Tommy Lee and Pamela Anderson were a couple,

there was a famous moment or a famous picture of him licking the side of her face. Hmm. Oh. I do want to say that I feel like our boss was very influenced by rock stars. Yeah. So it would not surprise me if that was something that was seen. That they wanted.

And it was like, hey, that guy did it. It's cool and sexy. It's hot. Yeah. Yeah. The only person I've ever, I mean, pantomime. I didn't, like, swipe the lick, but I did that pose once with my best friend Cameron, which, like, tracks because Cameron is gay and not a man who I'm, like, involved with.

It was, like, this very funny thing that we did. I was, like, adjusting his bowtie, and someone referenced that. So we took this photo because it was, like, this amazing black and white. It doesn't matter. I'm digressing. It got so creepy. It sounds great. Because it's honestly, like, a very sexy picture, but, you know, neither of us wants to

each other, so that's not it. Years later, someone took that photo and photoshopped Jensen's face into it. So now it looks like there is a picture of me licking DeNeil's husband's face. Why do people do these things? Well, I don't know because they want to do like some, whoever his character was on Supernatural and Brooke Davis like fan fiction. I don't fucking know. But it's so creepy to all of us involved.

and like, I don't know, man. It's a good thing you know now. You can't trust any pictures that you see ever because everything is just digitally altered. The problem is we know that. The internet doesn't know that. So the problem is that photo gets reposted. Oh, yeah.

And before a voice of reason comes in, there'll be a hundred people who will be like, that's not right. He's married. She should know better. And then like 80 comments down will be someone going, actually, this is an edited photo. from 2016.

Yeah. But at that point, people have already had two hours to get upset about it, you know? Well, and that's exactly it. That's exactly it. It's so, it's just icky to me. I don't know. So I guess that's the good part of- I've never had the urge to lick anyone's face.

I mean, I get it in a, in a comical context. Like, obviously, that's funny. But as like a sexy move. No, but not as a move. That's exactly what I, that's, I guess, why I'm like describing the literal zero ounce of chemistry, Cameron and I have. Because it's like, it's it has to be a gag

or I guess something they may ask for in a scene. I just don't know that that would be like a I don't know. Not for me. I'm on team rob. I'm not into the licking. We're moving on. It can't be a move. Maybe a flourish at best, but you can't be like, I open

doors, I pick up checks and I lick necks. No. That can't be your romantic toolkit. Oh, my God. Why do I feel like you just wrote a country song? You did. Oh, my gosh. And we need that on a T-shirt.

Joy, get to it. I open doors and I write chicks. There it is. I flirt with boys and I lick their necks. Gross. Gross. You know what? I do want a shout out, though, that was also great.

And again, just to really repeat how hilarious Jana is. before she makes out with clay for the tequila and grabs the lime, she orders two tequila shots at the bar joy, and she's like in a terrible disguise. You clearly know it's Alex Dupre. And Millie catches her. And she goes, well, we're drinking. And she makes Millie take both tequila shots.

And when Millie takes the shot, she bites the lime, Alex does, and just watches. And she looks at her and she goes, are we drunk yet? And Millie kind of shakes her head and goes, no, we're buzzed. And she's like, oh, I love being buzzed. And it's, it is so funny. It's just so funny. I love that. I love the unpredictability in a girl who plays.

Like, is she, is she actually playing dumb? Is she using her entire toolkit, her body, her wiles, her wisdom, her vulnerability, like all the things. I mean, it's kind of terrifying of somebody who is able to manipulate all of themselves. in that way, but super fun to watch for sure. We also had the arrival at the very end of Allison Munn's real-life husband, Scott Holroyd, as Shantel's husband. So that was kind of a fun reveal at the very end.

She's not answering her phone a trick, and then he's awkward right behind her. She screens this call, and he's like, you're going to have to answer sooner or later. Oh, it's so uncomfortable. What's with the photo shoot? You guys organized a photo shoot for what? Is this the Alex thing? Oh my God, yeah. It's the big closeover bro's shoot.

So the sort of running past Julian and only his boxers in the morning happens because Brooke is saying she's late. And it's like this whirlwind of, you know, me going to work and him being stuck at home. And it's really well set up from the beginning. Tim, our actual makeup artist from the show, is playing Alex's makeup artist. It's very flourish of things happening in the store. and then we go and do the photo shoot up on the roof that used to be the put-put course. Yeah.

And it's really like it's fun and it's lively and it's loud. And there's a lot of, I don't know, I felt like we kind of got a peek behind the curtain at production, obviously in like a very pop way. I liked it. Is that the first time we seen the golf course, not golf coursey? Yeah, I think so.

I don't know. Removed. That was sad. That was sad when it disappeared. There was also a funny moment at that shoot where it opens with Alex showing up a proper mess just hung over and disheveled

and announces to a room full of people I need a pill. That's when the whole bit where Sophie's trying to slap the pill out of her mouth. And so she's made a whole production of that, right? And then later at the end of the shoot or towards the end of the shoot, you see her sort of sneak away and Millie walks by and goes like, are you good? She goes, yeah, I just need a water.

And then after Millie walks away, she like surreptitiously tries to take a pill. I'm like, why are we being coy now? You literally announced to the entire room, I need a pill when you walked in the door. She didn't want to get attacked. She wanted to get bum rushed. Yeah.

Oh, see, that makes more sense. I guess I was thinking of it like she thought she was keeping a secret. And to me, I'm like, there's no secret. You cat came out of the bag the second. You walked in the room, you know. But that makes sense. She doesn't want to get tackled. Yeah.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Joy, what was your honorable mention from the episode? My honorable mention is your thumb on my shoulder. Just, you know, the last little detail. Oh, my God. Honestly, my honorable mention occurs. It's a very random. thing, but I was very impressed by it. When we're doing glam before the shoot for Alex

downstairs at Close Over Bros. Joy, Julian walks in and hands me, my coffee order, Millie, her coffee order, turns around to Quinn with her coffee order and says, I called Haley. And I was like, that, that's nice. That's nice. Keep that, man. Like, keep that energy with people. I, the thought that, you know, somebody would do that. I was like, honorable mention for sure. Yes, he moves, sir. Yeah, he's a good dude. Mine would be from the same scene where when Alex sits in the chair,

so if you come in red hot with the line where you lean in and you say to Tim the makeup artist, you might want to start with a little lying slut remover. And they just started thinking, this is the person you just paid five. $500,000 to look happy in your clothing right before the shoot, you opened with. Why don't she use a little lying slut remover on her? We can't help her son. Oh, God. We just had to commit.

It was great. So many quotables in this show. So many great lines, man. I can't wait to watch this episode. I'm going to do a double header. I love it. Well, we have a listener question. Oh, Kayla asks.

If you could have any character from Winchry Hill as your best friend in real life, who would it be and why? That's so sweet. That's a great question. I'm going broker skills. I think both are excellent choices for very different reasons. I love that. Honestly, yeah, I'd want to be friends with Brooke Davis,

but that might like break the time space continuum. So I would 100% love to have skills as my. best friend. Why not? Yeah. Yeah. Skills. I skills is great because you also know you're going to get a little Jamie because those two are a tandem package. But for the sake of just of being different, I will say mouth because I was really moved by how sweet he was. I just felt like I was watching a real steady good friend this episode. And I, that's what I'd like. I just give me a good steady buddy who's in my corner. Yeah. Love it. Should you spin a wheel? I think we're no way out.

Let's see. Most likely to save you from a bad first date. I love it. How is that not Brooke? Who else would it be? Maybe Millie. Brooke was my immediate knee jerk as well. My second thought was Clay because we see him doing a lot of cleaning up.

Oh, yeah, a lot of crisis. Yeah. But, yeah, my heart immediately shouted Brooke. Yeah. Yeah, I think so. I feel that. It's unanimous. Yeah, I think all of Brooke's friends have a text code with her.

And they, I don't know what the code word is, but she gets that message and it's like, check the location, show up. Yeah. And then you get the call. Something bad happened. That's right. Must go. Quick, quick. Willie fell down the well.

You better come with you now. It's like it's the Brooke signal instead of the bat signal. It's a giant thumbs down shown into the sky and she knows she needs to swoop in and save a friend from a lame day. What do we got next episode, Sof? Oh my goodness. Next week. Season 7, episode 4, believe me, I'm lying.

Okay. Oh, dear. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you. you next time we're all about that high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school

queens we'll take you for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens drama queen smart girl rough girl fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you

get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.