Drama Queens - Croissants are meant to be Eaten • EP207

Episode Date: January 17, 2022

Dan tells Karen … that Deb slept with Keith!? Oh dear! Joy has a major "ah-ha" moment about Felix and Dan and the ladies discuss! The Drama Queens wonder why Brooke and Mouth never got together. Was it unrequited love? Or were they really just “best friends forever?” Can hetero men and women be ... JUST FRIENDS?! And let’s take a listener poll… When you see a beautiful platter filled with pastries, wouldn't you think eating one is the logical next step? Joy shares a story of a Karen’s Cafe croissant that turned out to be months old, which she didn’t know until it was already in her mouth. What happened next? Well, she'll tell you! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. You could be the smart girl, rough girl fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. queens. Oh, our friends, this was episode seven. Let the Rains go loose. Original air date,

November 2nd, 2004. I love that Trick was in its full glory in this episode. It is the opening of Karen's Club trick, and it brings together the people of Tree Hill. Very messy. Lucas and Felix come to blows over Anna, which is weird. After Christmas. Chris Keller. What a dreamboat. He quits his gig the night of the club opening. Haley must face her fear of performing to save the night for Peyton. And although Marvin tends to Brooke while she's drunk, Felix sneaks in and attempts to take the credit. And Keith and Jules realize their relationship has moved on to the next level.

While Dan deliberately and maliciously tells Karen that Deb slept with Keith. There's like a lot in this episode. Yes, a lot happened. Oh, my God. I don't even know where to start. Well, I know where to start because you nailed it, Joy. You nailed it with your Felix analysis. Give it to us.

Felix is Dan in the making? And I saw it in the moment when Felix leaned down and made the choice to lie to Brooke. And it's the same choice that Dan makes when he's on the phone with the doctor and he lies to Deb. It's just the same. But it's like, you know, go backwards, rewind 20 years, and you can see how those choices can turn you, eventually turn you into a Dan Scott. A monster. Felix is already a monster. Like, we said it last week.

We're going to say it again this week. So, sorry if you're sick of it. But I genuinely cannot understand Anna's deep-seated. fear of her brother's opinion about who she's kissing like super you guys super weird the thing that was the weirdest to me and all of it's weird and i just keep thinking about goats because he's getting them this this is the middle of dark ages the dowry for the woman it's so creepy why she supposedly needs approval Hillary you said it when we were watching the episode like did anyone in the writer's room have siblings what was going on honestly i think all must be only

children who are like, man, I bet there's like a family vote at dinner to see who can go out with who. Okay, wait. No, he did. He did imply, though, that something happened in the last town that they were in. And I don't know what that was. Okay, but here's my issue is he's like, he's mad because she's alone, topless in a photo booth.

She didn't give that photo to Lucas. She kept it for herself. And he's saying, you know, you're going to bring rumors on this family. it's like a pox on both your houses type of weird and meanwhile she has as Hillary said pecked Lucas

whereas Felix is banging brook and she's the shameful one like a girl having any sexuality is bad and to make it weirder after Lucas and Felix get into it and they come to Fisticoff's great word

Fisikov she apologizes to she apologizes to Lucas And says, Lucas, you don't deserve this. And it's like, no, Anna, baby girl, you don't deserve this. Yeah. This testosterone fest over your purity is ridiculous. It's so gross. That's how I feel about it.

It is gross. Hold on. Was it the last episode? So the last episode, Lucas drops Anna off at her house, right? And Felix sees it. In front of Brooke house. In the car. And kisses her in front of Brooke Davis's house.

Yeah. And Brooke Davis is also on the porch watching the meteor shower. This boy does not learn anything from new experiences. No. And so is it any wonder, everything is just a mess with these guys. Like this is when you meet a girl that goes to a rival high school who doesn't know any of your friends. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like you have to break out of your circle, which I think is a healthy thing to do. Did you guys break out of your circles in high school?

I did. Yeah. I don't know if I ever had a circle. I think I kind of bounced around. But yeah, sometimes you want to go hang out with kids that just aren't a part of. Oh, yeah, I did that when I joined gospel choir when I was a sophomore. There was a lot of girls in there that weren't in my regular circle of friends. But it was cool.

I learned a lot. And like, it's fun to be able to connect with people outside of who you're naturally drawn to. Yeah, I mean, I definitely broke out of my school circle because I went to a tiny old girl school. And my high school sweetheart was my best friend from camp since I. I was nine, which was so sweet. Oh, summer camp. So sweet, but man, let me tell you what, did not prepare me for the real world at all.

Because I was like, I grew up on the Wonder Years. What? Oh, you were Winnie Cooper. Like, I didn't have any understanding of dynamics. So it's hilarious to like, God, to watch Brooke Davis just have such, like, such intense energy. Mm-hmm. Like, she's just fearless.

Are we talking about big dick energy? Because that scene was hilarious. My delight of this episode was Brooke Davis bringing a rider to Felix. And just being like, these are my boundaries, these are my rules. I want to create a writer. What's my writer? You honestly, though, you nailed to help. Something that's just called a prenuptial agreement?

I don't know. But you were right. And I honestly, I feel like I failed at not noting ever when Big Dick Energy became a thing, but it is Brooke Davis energy and the ambitions are the same. Like, oh, my God. BD. Oh, my God. BDE.

It's Brooke. Like, how did I not know? But you guys, we were watching the episode and we watched that scene and I literally was like, God, I wish I was ever that cool or confident. She just doesn't know. And it's inspiring. Granted. And it's attractive.

It is attractive. But I also have to say, There is the moment where I think, like, granted, she's coping by seeking validation from a boy, but also a lot of people cope by seeking validation from relationships. Is it validation or she's just seeking, like, comfort at this point? Like, everybody's got love languages. Some people, you know, physical comfort is some people's love language. And it's like, this is a gift I'm giving to myself right now. Like, I don't give a fuck about you.

This is a gift to myself. I'm just saying, it doesn't necessarily have to be self-medication so much as, as, I've earned this. I deserve it. Somebody kiss my neck. Kiss my neck right now. I want somebody's face on my back. Yeah.

All right. I'm open to it. I'm so curious what the viewers see in it, too. Well, right now they think I'm a pervert. They're like, No. She's well within her rights to say, these are the terms of the agreement. I am feeling a lot of big feelings right now, so I have nothing to give you. If you want to make each other comfortable, okay. Here's my rules. Here are my rules. I don't know how much Brooke is covering. I don't think she's attracted to Felix, but I don't either. now yeah she's she's pushing a she's pushing a lot down because we know all the things that she's struggling with and all the things she's dealing with i mean kind of a big deal to admit that you've

sold your blood like join that scene with you and i i didn't remember shooting it but good god it made me happy to watch that was so cute it was really funny but i don't remember it at all but it was it was really funny they definitely found the most discount rack kind of like uh looking stored, like the place that Brooke would never be caught dead in. Yeah, the place that I like to go to, like to troll the Goodwill and see what gems are in the racks. Like any thrift store in a small town when I'm on a road trip, I'm in it. That's how we find our caftans.

Oh, God. Find good caftans in a sweatshirt. But it's definitely not a Brooke Davis brand. Should we wear all of our vintage caftans in the next taping? Yeah. Yeah. That's a great idea. Obviously.

idea. That's a great idea. I can't talk today. Okay. So let's go back to that Dan scene. Let's follow the chronology of our story here with Dan coming into the cafe

and being grown-up, Felix. A big freaking liar. And Karen telling him, you're creeping everybody out. You're creeping everybody out. This phoenix rising from the ashes. Nobody buys it. She's the only.

only one who sees through it all and is not willing to give him second chances. She's not over there like, oh, Dan, but he's good at heart. She's like, no, he's an asshole. She doesn't buy it. She's like, you're doing a thing. It's weird. It's overkill. Stop it.

I've known you since kindergarten, Danny. And then Paul made such an interesting choice because he played, look, that revelation was mean-spirited. For Dan Scott to say to Karen. Of course. Keith and Deb had sex. And he did it in such. such a gentle way and say, no, I've, no, me, it's not fake. I've even forgiven my brother and my wife.

Even. Because you knew he was going to stab that, that thorn right into her side. Oh, man, that was ugly. Gross. And then she, she held it. She held it for the entire episode. And what's great about Moira is that she never references it, but you see her carry it. Because it's like that Andy walks in, you know, Debs in the cafe working with her.

Keith comes in to say hello. Keith, by the way, never even looks over in Debs' direction, which is the biggest telltale sign. I wish there would have been some kind of like active ignoring, you know, where they're like, there's looks, but they don't say hi. I see you, but I don't see you. That would have been interesting. No, no. They just, he's like, I'm not even going to look behind the counter. There's no one else here, but Karen.

And then Andy comes in, who is just... That timing was so great. I love seeing him come in. And the tiny T-shirt. I had one made for Lucas. Little Lucas. And this baby size. Oh, my God.

It's so funny. Yeah, that was a fun scene. And I like that the adults are getting this much time to play. This was a fun episode for the adults. There were so many things going on. Oh, oh my gosh. And there's one thing we didn't talk about in the last episode. because we had such a love fest with Maria Menunos.

But guys, as we're watching Andy and Karen's relationship, I forgot his name for a second. As we're watching Andy and Karen's relationship develop, we realize that the property in the last episode that Andy supposedly bought is a beautiful botanical garden in Wilmington called Aarly Gardens, and they have that romantic first date, and they have their little hand-touchy moment,

and the meteors are falling. We want to know how many of y'all have gotten married or had big life events at Early Gardens. We want to see your photos. Show us Andy's backyard. Show us Andy's backyard, guys. Help us paint this picture because we're excited about it. And in the last episode and in this episode,

we just keep coming back to what great chemistry these two have together. The electricity of that first handhold. And then in this episode, the first kiss. Oh, my God. It was a good kiss. It was a good kiss. It was all silhouetted and I loved that he was just so unconcerned with the fact that he's younger than her. And he's not by much.

I don't even really see much of an age difference there. What's the number? I don't know. I don't know. But I mean, I love it. Yeah, we know the Jules is 26 and Keith is older than Karen. Yeah, there's zero conversation about that happening. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah, no, I'm hot for it. I think it's a great idea. And his, what's his line? She's like, doesn't this look off? And then he's like, he kisses her and he's like, doesn't feel off. You know, like, oh, and then he just walks away. Yeah, I just like the energy of it.

And you're right. Nobody ever references it with Keith and Jules. It's a weird thing. And maybe it sticks out to us, too, because we knew it was a bunch of dudes writing that, like, how could this younger man want to be with this older woman? Right. But she's older. The scandal.

She's so hot. What a crazy idea. And so maybe that's why we're like, ew. But it was cool that if it had to be a topic of conversation, he said, I don't care. And she, by the way, didn't care at all when he was like, I thought your son was six. She's kind of like, yeah, your assumption. I didn't say exactly. You know, Andy went into that whole thing on their date about how my mom.

My single mother raised me, and I have a great appreciation for, like, I wish my mother had gone back to school. I appreciate how hard she worked, all that kind of stuff. I think there is a thing about boys with single moms who appreciate, like, strong women and can appreciate other single mothers in a way that maybe other dudes can't. And so he's naturally drawn to someone who reminds him of a woman he really deeply respects, you know? That's comforting when you can say, I know what this cycle looks like. I've seen how this plays out. I like that for myself. I want it.

I do think it was realistic that Karen has the concern that he's younger because she does of a teenage son and she seems done. I'm not sure Karen's ready to have another baby. And so, you know, that may be an issue when an older woman is dating a younger man. Like, are you actually going to be okay with this? I mean, there's a lot of practical application things to think about. and I don't know. I just think that I can't remember,

does she have another baby? She doesn't, right? She and Andy. Yeah, with Keith. They do. Wait, Karen? She has, doesn't she have a baby with Keith? And then he dies and then Andy, like, helps her raise it?

Wait, is that real? Is that what happens? Is that what happens on our show? Beats a f*** out of me. It happens, like, much later. Well, regardless, in this moment, I think Karen is, you know, feeling like where she's at in life is maybe not where a woman who is, as Andy's age would be.

And so that is a real consideration. And is it worth walking down this road with someone who I really like if we're not going to be headed in the same direction in life? Oh, I was totally right. Karen gives birth to her and Keith's daughter, Lily Rose Scott. And then she meets Andy and they get back together and she travels around the world with him. Guys, we have the best producers on our show. Oh, my gosh.

Wow. We just got that answer. Facts. Bam! You guys are amazing. I feel good. I feel validated. Yeah, I also, you can be the same age as someone and completely be different emotionally because I know friends who are empty nesters now.

I have friends who are just having their first kids or have decided not to have kids at all and are free traveling the world acting like we're still 19 years old and we're all the same exact age. And so I've had those moments where I feel like the dinosaur because I've got the older kid. And, you know, like my life just feel so much more settled than some of my other peers. And so I understand why Karen in her mid-30s might feel 10 or 15 years older. She's always been the youngest mom in the school pickup line. She's always been the youngest mom at the PTA meetings. And so she just kind of ages herself up because that's how you fit in. Those low-cut jeans tell a story, though.

She does it in such a... That's what I was about to say. She does this in such a cool way. And I do feel like in season two, they let Moira as Karen dress more her age, act more her age. They weren't like putting all the moms in polo shirts and khakis anymore.

And even when... Because we got Carol Cutshaw. Exactly. And even when Karen catches us doing silly shit, like, you know, when Lucas teases her about breaking curfew or she catches Brooke, you know, having used a fake ID.

She's not like, give me your fake ID, but she's like, give me your hand. I'm cutting that wristband off you. Don't drink in my club. Yeah. You know, she's cool. She doesn't think that these kids are like porcelain dolls, but she's trying to set good examples for them.

Well, she did have a baby right out of high school. Like she sure did. Yeah, I mean, she's not a square. And so I like her version of parenting. You're right, where she's just like, look, I did it. Hey, kids? Yeah, I did it.

I did it first. Let's talk about Karen's Club trick because Joy, that night, like the first night that we were there, you said it. You're like, oh, my God, the line outside of trick. Yeah. I totally remember that I had a visceral muscle memory of looking out that door and seeing all those people there for the first time. It was so cool to see that place all filled up. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. When I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why. Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare. And, frankly, bullshit.

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up.

Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So what do you remember for that episode? Oh, man. You know what's so funny? I remember that green dress. I remember you in the trip t-shirt. Like, I remember that night. Joy, I remember your bouffant ponytail.

Like, we were doing those puffed ponytails. That hair was perfect. Oh, my God. I just remember it. And I remember how fun it was for me to get to work with Lee. so much because I had so much fun working with him. You know, Lee had become and still is like one of my closest friends and really is like a brother to me.

And it was special to, you know, work on that storyline together, this unrequited love between Mouth and Brooke and she looks at it as this safe friendship and he doesn't want to violate that, yet he loves her. And we really talked about, you know, our. limited at 22, you know, relationship experience and when we'd missed things and when we'd been scared. And he talked about, you know, shared with me a lot of what it was like growing up as a person who was famous from Boy Me's World and from uniqueness. And he felt like he got to represent a lot of kids in that storyline. And we were so glad that it never got inappropriate

or weird. Well, because there was a moment where he's putting you to bed. And I was like, don't kiss her, don't kiss her, don't kiss her. And he didn't. I know. I was having the same feeling. He doesn't. He's such a good guy. And he won't tell Felix it's okay.

He won't even shake his hand. Exactly. He won't respond with that fistbone. And it's really lovely. And Lee did such a beautiful job. And I just remember that for us feeling really special against the backdrop of, you know, so much that was special happened. for all of us. Hillary, you were bringing music and this world that you'd been working in

into the show. And Joy, you were bringing your actual music in and beginning to perform on the show. And everything just felt sparkly. Like, even it started to feel very meta. It was like, everything converging. Season one was them all getting to know us and like figure out what our actual interests are, what our actual passions were. And then season two, two was just like, how do we exploit this? And I'm okay with it because like getting back into hosting felt comfortable for me. Like there's certain things that I've seen already in season two. I didn't think about that hell. Yeah. Yeah. It was when I had to give that whole speech to the drug dealer the first time I meet him where I'm like, music and music and music, you know, like all this

exposition about how music feels, I hated those monologues. I can hate it. It's bad everywhere. It's just, ugh, everybody talks like that. No, yeah, go ahead. It's like they wanted me to be Dawson, you know, from Dawson's Creek. It's overdone. It was dorky. However, when we got to act it, rather than say it, when we got to act it and actually hold the microphone and be a kid that's like, oh my God, we're doing this, you know?

It's the action as opposed to the talking about it feels so much better. I definitely remember filming this episode. because Kieran was so cute. And I got to hang out just in that booth. I got to just sit in that booth, which was elevated enough that I got a bird's eye view of everything that was going on in the club.

And it was so fun to kind of just be in, I don't know, it's basically where I'd be for MTV too. You know, it was a natural habitat. And I loved the scene where Peyton is like, introduce me to your friend, to Karen. Just like, stuff. He's a grown man. I'm 16. I've also hooked up with your son. But if you could do a girl a solid, I just loved Peyton

trying to get in, trying to be introduced to this guy. I've never talked with a high school that was like super eager to get involved in my adult conversation with some person. So funny. Yeah, but did they have a New Zealand accent? That's right. But were they that hot? I don't know. I remember being nervous. I remember where working on the song. They sent me a song that I've fixed a little bit. I mean, I think I thought I fixed it. I still remember some of it, and I think I did make the song a little bit better, but I didn't like take a writing credit or anything. I just kind of tweaked it, so I felt like it fit me in my style a little bit more. And I had fun. It just was nerve-wracking because,

yeah, it was my first time singing in front of everybody, and it was just me in the piano, and it was a quiet song in a club that definitely had like a high-energy vibe so it just felt like it didn't match. So I don't know that I ever loved any of the music that I sang on the show. Even my own stuff. Do you know who wrote, wrote the song?

I don't remember. Yeah. I don't remember at all. I wish I did. I'm sorry. I like that you were styled like Gwen Stefani. Like that was a very Gwen Stefani ponytail ponytail ponytail. Yeah, but I was saying like a jewel song.

It was like so like, you know, talk about him. Yeah, Sarah McLaughlin type of song, that type of thing. I will remember you. Yeah, but it was fun. But I did love the excuse to be, and this is my first time watching Haley and feeling like I really love seeing her go into this zone for the first time. And this is my first time as joy being removed enough from all of this to watch it and see kind of what everybody fell in love with about Haley, being nervous and scared

and just all of those things. It was exciting to watch her trajectory there. And Nathan, you know, marrying Tudor Girl, but ending up getting not what he bargained for. That was interesting, too. I'm excited to see where that goes. He's so earnestly excited for you in this. And it is darling, like, just so endearing

that the end of the episode, where he's waiting up is sad. It's just bouncing the basketball. It's all heartbreaking. It's so sweet. I mean, thankfully, you're just with your girlfriend. It's not like you're off like kissing a dude in a gravel parking lot yet. Not yet. I love Tyler in this episode, too.

Tyler was so fun. I mean, everywhere he goes, he just lights it up. Lights up the room. He's so good. Also, this is when Chris Keller starts talking about himself in the third person. That's right. What a device. They're like, how can we make this guy super fucking irritating?

We're going to have him. talk of. It was a Seinfeld reference, wasn't it? Didn't Elaine's boyfriend talk about himself in the third person? And that made it like a cultural. Did he? I didn't know that. Yeah, Elaine had a boyfriend. Was it Puddy who talked about himself in the third person? Did Puddy do? I mean, I remember Puddy, but did he do that. That's so funny if he did. Of course he did. I feel like I'm dating myself with this. I'm old like Karen. God. I grew up on Seinfeld and Wilfordon. We actually did. But that's okay. Yeah, me too. You know what? You know what I thought was actually very sweet as well, just to go back to watching some of what

they gave to Nathan's storyline in this episode? I really liked that, I can't remember who said it to him. Somebody said, because he's given up his basketball camp, and somebody said, you did a good thing for her, Nate. And Nathan says, no, she did it all in her own. And there's something really lovely about that. he's he's really recognizing who haley is and making sure that other people are clear on the fact that they each deserve to live their dream when he when he sits out yeah right like when he sits

out of the basketball camp in the previous episode and dan finds out about it you think there's going to be drama and then in this episode he talks to whitey and whitey says that beautiful line about how you may not be taking a step forward as a basketball pair, but you might be taking two steps forward as a man. That's such a good line. You love it. I even love his reaction when Chris Keller comes up, and he's clearly a little smarmy and, you know, the line he throws at him about how many guys want to sleep with your wife.

And James just handled it so well as Nathan, just kind of taking it in. He's not a reactive, combative dude, like that part. of his character from season one. But he was, yeah. Yeah, he really was, but you get to see how much he's grown that he's not like Lucas and Felix jumping in, like, you're lucky, I'm, you know, this is my friend's club, I'm not going to do this in here. He doesn't do it.

He just kind of looks at him, like, all right, man. Did you cross ever, like, experienced bar fights in Wilmington? It was, you know, it's like a military town. The military comes and, like, parties in our bars, and there were fights all the time. all the time. Oh, yeah, all the time. My little brother was a bouncer at level five and would have to, like, carry people down

those five flights of stairs. Oh, gosh. You wouldn't put a drunk person in the elevator because then, you know, like the struggle continues. They'd like a special hold where they would like, you know, cart them out and then throw them out on the sidewalk, like cartoons. I saw my first bar fight like a couple months ago.

Really? Like live in person? Yeah, my first one I ever saw. Oh, wow. I don't hang out enough dive bars, I guess. but I love them. Another thing to add to the Drama Queen's tour. Hey, hey.

I was in Bakersfield. Drama queens are dive bars. Like 2 a.m. A couple of guys started fighting in the bar. I'm surprisingly like unfettered by it. I don't know. Anti-climactic? Yeah, I just was kind of sitting there like drinking my cocktail just watching these guys fight.

I don't know. I wasn't too bother. Do better, boys. Do better. Yeah. I remember when we. first moved there, I was so excited to live above firebelly because it was notorious as the bar where Vince Vaughn and Steve Bishamie got into that massive bar fight.

Oh, that's right. And Vince Fon got arrested, I think. Yeah, that was a bad one, I think. And Steve Bishamie got his face sliced open or something crazy. It was like urban legend in Wilmington that that was the bar where bad stuff happened. And so, of course, when the apartment above it was available, I was like, yes, this is my spot. want to live there. This is amazing street crack.

Well, something that is the opposite of a bar fight, perhaps, because it felt real wholesome. But I loved and wish we'd had more of that giant lunch scene on the quad. Oh, I'm glad you brought that up. That was so gorgeous. The first thing we started talking about when we saw it was like, why didn't we do more of this? Why didn't we do that all the time? And I do love that we establish trick. We do create this all ages bar.

We create this space where the kids get to go and have all the experiences that have become so famous on our show. But I realized, like, oh, man, whatever director came in for this one set such a great example. It was David Paymer. It was David. Oh, that's right. I was so excited for him to come in because I was a huge fan of that movie, Heart and Souls, from, like, 89 or something with Robert Jim. Me, too, Joy. I love that movie, and he's the bus driver.

And I just was like kind of geeking out about this little movie that I loved as a kid. And he came in to direct us. Anyway, sorry to digress, but yeah. No, it was, I mean, God, he was the greatest. But he saw that quad as such an opportunity. And it felt lively and fun. And so many things were happening. And it was such a good device to then talk about, you know, the way that the kids would splinter off.

And also how they all had so much drama. And by the way, not just the high school kids, the adults. And then there was that, like, nice drop of foreshadow. that we got from Anna Tagaro. Daniela Alonzo's little crack about how, you know, she was a little closeted. But she was talking about being an emo fan. And I was like, oh, I know what's coming.

We were talking about common books. Yeah. She sold the artwork on the poster. I don't know. Why did I hear that? That's so funny. When Anna and Peyton start talking about that band, and she says, oh, I love them.

And Peyton says, oh, you're an emo? Like, I didn't peg you for an emo fan. And she goes, well, yeah, you know, I'm a little. closeted. I was like, oh, that's great. See, that's the nuance we want. Guys, Peyton will find it and seek it out and pull it out. And just be like, hey, let's get into this here. You know, I, it's so weird watching these episodes back because I really didn't think when we were filming it that I was being flirty or like overly friendly or anything. But I can watch it now as an

entirely separate person and be like, oh, I can absolutely see why people would be like, Peyton is, you know, landed on a little thick here. Like, oh, tell me more. Let me just sidle up to you. Yeah, especially the Peyton that we first knew who was so moody and didn't want to make new friends that she's so eager to make a new friend. It's kind of fun. Very eager to make friends with beautiful Anna.

Just like, okay, what else do you like? Tell me everything. I'm going to sit with you. I had flyers to pass out, but I guess that can wait. I can totally wait. Why are you eating alone? I'm here. Payton's so needy, guys.

That's all right. We all were at some point in our lives. Everybody was. Everybody needs. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditional. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together.

Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok, from Prologue Project. and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What do you think? Do we have fan questions?

Yeah. I'm going to do some fan questions. Oh, I like this one. Ashley asks us, was there an actual menu for Karen's Cafe? and what would your to go order be or your go-to, your go-to order? That's a great question. Was there?

I mean, I'm sure for props there was. No, I don't remember one. We used those like dark blue, at least in later seasons. I think they were like a dark blue menu that probably came from the Dixie Grill. They were not real menus. Yeah, Dixie Grill. But, oh, man.

If there had been a BLT, that would have been an order. Yeah, I was going to say, what's your order? BLT. That would be it. Remember all of the cake stands with the glass domes full of pastries on the countertops? Yeah, but I used to go eat all the time, yeah. Yes, Joy. Okay, I'm so happy you said that because I know what my reputation was.

No, I remember a prop person flipping out because they saw you in the scene pull it out to eat it. And they were like, oh no, that's not fresh. Like, it had been sitting there for weeks and weeks and weeks. It wasn't like to be eaten food. it was prop food and you, whether it was an awful pastry or not, played it off like such a pro and didn't make a stink about it.

You were just like, I'm going to eat this cardboard croissant right now. Let that be a lesson to all prop departments. Don't put something out if you don't expect your actors to use it. Why would you put something out if you didn't think we're going to use it? I hate it. One of my biggest pet peeves is walking into a set that's not a working set where you open up the pantry cabinets and it's empty. like oh that's the worst. Do you know what I mean? It's like, please work with me here. Give me something to, and they just think actors are going to show up and, well, aren't you just supposed to stand there? Well, what if I'm not feeling like standing there? I'm so paranoid having had food poisoning a couple times. You couldn't pay me to touch a food prop on a set unless someone told me exactly where and when it came from. I'm like, can I eat that? Is that fresh? I won't even, I won't even touch it. I'm so.

I have, like, such bad PTSD from, like, being in the hospital on IV drips that I'm like, no, I'm good. I don't, what is that? Oh, gosh. That's, I don't want it. I'm so scared. But I agree with you. If I, like, if I open, like, a desk, like a desk drawer, it's supposed to be in my office. And, like, there's no pens in there.

I'm like, guys, put some pens in there. There have to be, like, pens and post-its and random, like, you know, rubber bands and, like, the stuff people actually have in their desk drawers. You got to help us out. The last made-for-TV movie. I was supposed to do. I was in a fight about the budget. And I remember being like, there's no way we can make it for this amount of money. They're like, well, we made this other movie for that amount of money.

And I said, there were empty cupboards in that movie. Yes. Empty cupboards is the sign of like low budget. We're just going to mail it in. No. There were not empty cupboards at Karen, but we didn't refresh the food there on a regular basis. But I ate it anyway. Joy, because you're a professional, sis.

That's why you're like, I'm going to commit to this croissant. You're like, I started it and I'm going to finish it. God damn it. But I don't think they had a menu, though. What would you eat? Okay, so BLT. I love a BLT. I don't even know what, like, Karen's Cafe specializes in.

Is it like a brunch? I think it's just American, you know, bistro sort of. Yeah. I probably would have had, like, grilled cheese and tomato soup. I bet Karen did a great grill cheese and tomato soup. You know what I would get? A charcutory plate. You guys know me.

I will always get a charcutory plate. That's true. Just give the woman some meats and some cheeses. Meets and Jesus. I'll pay for it later. And maybe a teeny, tiny little tin of pickled vegetables. Pickles? I need my pickles.

Yeah, that would be a good Karen's Cafe menu item. I would like that. I would like that. Oh, this is a good question, too. We have another viewer question that seems to have been submitted anonymously. So thank you, whoever you are. Asking, season two has a lot of new faces. Felix, Anna, Andy, Jules, and more.

What was the experience like on an offset having so many new characters on the show? I loved it. I thought this was so fun because we had all been staring at each other's faces for so long that, you know, I mean, 22 episodes is no joke. We were in Wilmington for nine months out of every year. Almost 10.

Almost 10 months, yeah. And, you know. And like 17 hours a day. Right. Yeah. So we had sort of established our social circles and our hideouts and our different places that we like to go and visits and beaches. We had our routine. So to have new people come in and showing some of them around

the town or finding places that they discovered that, you know, maybe we hadn't thought to go visit this museum or this spot on the beach or whatever. It was really fun. I loved it. Yeah. It would remind you how cool a place was because, Joy, you're right. We had done it all. And then it kind of kind of becomes like Groundhog's Day. You're like, I don't know, we go to these five places to eat and these are the things. And the minute you get to show it to a new person, you're just like, it is really cool, isn't it? It is beautiful, isn't it? Like, it's a nice refresh of your own perspective. Yeah. That's why we like to travel, you know? Well, and we also had established dynamics on our show where we all made each other's characters moody. It was like, you know,

if I talk to Lucas, chances are it's going to be a buzzkill, you know, and I'll go cry in my room. And so by introducing all these new people that we can get excited about on the quad, we break those cycles because we get to reinvent ourselves. And so Lucas actually talks about that. You know, he's like, I'm trying to be a better guy. I'm trying to be a better guy. And she's like, I don't know. It seems, Anna's like, it seems fine. She's like, I don't really know who you were before. But she's like, what you time about you? You just seem like a 16-year-old boy. I will say one of the things

I wished and we talked a little bit about this on the last episode a lot of us hung out on set you know when Maria was around because we knew her before but gosh looking back I'm like man

how come Brooke only got to work with Felix like I wanted to work with Anna I loved Daniela I just thought she was so cool and I never got I don't I mean I don't remember what's coming because we did it 100 years ago but I don't even know

if I ever got to do scenes with her And I just thought she was so great. We had that big, like, prom party. Yeah. Like, there's a big party coming up. Oh, my God. I remember the prom party. Yeah.

Oh, that's going to be fun. Wait, is that the one where I wore that periwinkle dress and you wore the green dress and we found you that. Yes. I think I had the yellow dress with the red corsage. It was all matching red and yellow. I love that we remember things either by our hair or by our fashion. Was this the one? Like, forget the subplot.

Forget whatever. I don't know what happened, but I remember you looked so pretty. You guys look so nice. Yeah, Danielle is such a cool girl, and Anna comes in and is a, she cleans the slate for Lucas in a way that, you know, he can't hang out with anybody else in town because they all know his baggage. Lucas needs someone to come in and see him with fresh eyes. And maybe that is why we liked people joining our cast because they came in. and saw us with fresh eyes. Yeah.

You know? And we got to kind of try on be new people. I certainly know at that age, at like 22 years old, I was a different person once a month. You know, I started hanging out with like the metal bands in town. You know, like I wanted to be different than who I'd been two years before or four years before or whatever. So when these new people would come in, it was really an opportunity for us. to practice the kind of adults we wanted to be.

Yeah. Yeah. I agree. You like, hey man, you guys like metal? You like improv? What's your flavor? I'll take you to either. I love that.

Oh, my gosh. Yeah, man. Why do we think that Mouth and Brooke never had a shot? It would have been so much better if they ended up together. Like, they started this sort of Cyrano de Bergerac storyline and then, never, but it didn't really go all the way. And I wanted it to. It's just so good. Yeah, it's weird. I'm torn because on the one hand, I love being able to model great platonic friendships, you know, and I think that they're important, whether you have a friendship where

you've never tried to see if you might make a good couple or you go like, God, we really love each other. Should we try to date? Nope, actually, that's a bad idea. But we're just friends. Like, those are experiences that I know people have obviously in real life and I don't know part of me thought that it was so cool that we didn't cross that line with brook and mouth because their friendship you know was so real and deep and never needed it and then there's also a part of me that's like we were robbed it would have been so sweet because they really loved each other so much I know I think it would have been so interesting to see them the way they would have complimented each other and I think mouth would have brought out the fun playful little girl

in Brooke that always kind of felt like she had to um I don't know dress it up grow it up oh yeah I mean she's been actually like an adult you know going to cocktail bars and you know using her fake ID for years mouth would have been like hey man you want to like play some hacky sack in the park simplify so sweet yeah Bring it down. I do love their friendship. I do love that. No, that's a really good point, Joy.

No, that's a really good point, Joff. Sophia, that can men and women be like good platonic friends without sex getting in the way somehow? It's the old when Harry met Sally question. I think, you know who has been an extraordinary friend to me? And we have worked together and I celebrate every chapter of his life is Tyler Hilton. honestly like Tyler when he came on you know we had scenes together right away and I didn't even think about this but he brought it up at a convention he's like I never really knew how to be on a set and you came into my trailer and made me learn the names of all the names on the back of the call sheet

where all the crews are listed and you were like you learn these names you shake people's hands you ask them how their day is and I was like a bossy older sister with him and that's been our energy We've worked on three movies together. We did extant together. We did One Tree Hill together. Like, we've worked on so many things together. Oh, that's awesome. And his wife, Megan, is one of my very best friends, you know.

And he does have such clean energy. And by that, I mean, there's no flirtation. There's no, he doesn't step outside of the bounce. He's not like trying to tow the line to see. Right. Yeah. I cherish that about people. And it's funny, you know, when you say that, I do think it's a great age-old question.

And I get it. And look, I get it for a long time. We've asked it of men and women. But I think it's really true of anybody who has chemistry. Like, I don't know what everybody's into. But, like, in the same way that you referenced Tyler, and I think about what a safe friend he always was to us and still is. Like, I think about my best friend, Kenny.

Kenny is like a brother to me. Kenny shot our video. Yeah. Kenny shot our video for Drama Queen's an incredibly talented director and photographer. and he truly is one of my best friends on the planet. Like a person I can call for any question, he will stand next to me when I get married. Like, he is my family.

Yeah. And we've never had, like, a weird moment. There have definitely been girls in my friend group who've been like, I think I'm in love with Kenny. Well, because he's super cute. He's gorgeous and he's talented. But it's like, I think those friendships are so important. And then to be honest, like,

I can definitely think back like I had a moment in my 20s and another moment in my 30s maybe you get one a decade before you get it or something I don't know but like twice I have had great friends who the topic has come to be

where we're like are we in love with each other do we love each other are we in love with each other should we like try to be together and I think as long as you're not an idiot and you're not doing that irresponsibly with people's hearts

like I get how that happens too and then yeah yeah Truly, in both of those instances, I was like, nope, this was a bad idea. I love you so much. You're super cute. You're not my person. It's fine. Let's go back to being friends.

These are human things people experience. But I don't know. As a person who's been across the spectrum of having like decade plus platonic friendships to like, you know, a romantic relationship that I plan on being in for decades to come, like I think it's a case-by-case thing. you know? Yeah. Yeah, I think so too. And also whether you're single or attached makes a difference too. Because if you're both in relationships with other people but you're spending a lot of time together like best friends, that gets a little weird too. If you're writing songs together

like Chris Keller and Haley will be very soon. Ooh. Ooh. Girl, it's about to get so messy in Tree Hill. Starts getting up. I can't wait. I can't wait either. Well, should we spin a wheel? We're at 48 minutes. I think we should spin a wheel. Let's do it. Most likely to survive a zombie apocalypse. Well, I'm going to be level with you guys. I played Lucille on The Walking Dead, and I did not survive a zombie apocalypse.

So the answer's not made, but my husband did. My son is a zombie. characters first let's do characters first survive i like the junk showed up as our our like doorman a high school doorman in this episode oh wait was this the episode reestablished the junk was like two years older in community college hanging out with the high school kids i don't think we've talked about that yet i don't it was exciting to have cullen back because we hadn't had him in a while i know is skills the one who survived yeah Antoine would survive anything.

So I'm, yeah. I think Antoine would survive anything. But Skills had that whole speech during Dair Night where he's like, I don't like snakes, I don't like spiders, I don't like anything. That's right. No, who's the most resourceful tree hiller? Oh, man. I feel like Dan. Dan's like a cockroach.

You won't die. I think Dan would be hard to kill. But Keith is the only one in Tree Hill who knows how to fix anything. Yeah, that's true. He would be leading the, he would be leading the fray, the resistance. Don't you think? Yeah. Getting everybody back in their backpacks and like leading them through the woods. With this handkerchief on his head and an all denim outfit. Yes. It's escape from Tree Hill.

So good. All right. So Keith wins that one. And Antoine in real life is our, he's our end game. He's the one that lasts all the way through. Yeah, I think so. Yeah. I love it. You guys, this was a fun episode. I love Club. trick. I love that we're going to be here for the next 8 billion years. Yes. Thank God. I know. And guys, next week is a fun one too.

But I wonder, is it going to be a bitter pill with a title like Truth, Bitter Truth? I actually don't remember what's coming, so I'm excited to see Season 2, Episode 8. We'll be here next week. And as always, thank you guys so much for tuning in and hanging out with us. Love you. Bye. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH or email us at Drama Queens at IHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. drama queens drama queens it may look different but native culture is alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture somewhere along the way it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop that's dr. Lee francis

the fourth who opened the first native comic bookshop explore his story along with many other native stories on the show burn sage burn bridges listen to burn sage burn bridges on the iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make?

Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.