Drama Queens - Cue The Tears • EP 716

Episode Date: November 4, 2024

Rob and Joy talk about a specific actress that blew them away this episode, why Alexander's role is so confusing, the redemption story they love the most and which character is giving off Dan Scott vibes.  Plus, Rob tells a hilarious story of how he tried to bring himself to tears during an audition. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Hey, everybody, episode 716. Welcome back to Drama Queens. You've got me and Rob today. This one is, my attendance is bad, but my intentions are good. Air date February 8th, 2010. How are you doing, Rob? Hey, Joy. How are you? I'm pretty good. I'm pretty good. I'm in good spirits. How are you? I'm well, although I feel like we should open the episode with a public service announcement to our listeners. Yes. I heard your cries in the comment sections of every single social media post friends. And I apologize on behalf of all three of us.

Julian's mom is not deceased. Our bad. We forgot in the moment. We got caught up and shame on us. We own it. We apologize. Thank you for correcting us multiple, multiple times. Oh my gosh.

Wait, I didn't know this happened. I missed this episode. You all forgot Sharon Lawrence came? I think we did it twice, man. I'm pretty sure two separate episodes, at least one, because, like, the comment section was just a flood of like, she's alive. Listen, in your defense, there was a lot of confusion about parents alive, dad, who came in, who was talked about, who actually showed up. I was even confused about Bass Armstrong in this episode talking about Haley's dad who had passed away. And I was like, when did Haley's dad die?

I totally forgot that Huey Lewis had, I mean, well, her, you know, who played Kaylee's dad, had passed away. Wait, what? Huey Lewis played your dad? Yes. Wait, you didn't know this? No. Are you kidding me? No.

Oh, Rob, I know I wish you'd been a part of the show when he came to the show. It was really fun. We were all a little starstruck. That's incredible. Oh my gosh, Mr. Huey Lewis in the news himself. That's so cool. I know. I wanted to ask you because obviously this was my first time. And I remember meeting her and Best was so lovely, the actress who plays Lydia. But was she prominent in seasons one through six. No, she had come back. I think she had appeared two or three times. There was meeting Haley's family. Nathan met Haley's family. And then there was the wedding, one of the weddings, which might have been the same. same episode, but I feel like it wasn't. And then I feel like maybe there was a Thanksgiving that Huey Lewis wasn't there for. By the way, I love that it's always Hewey Lewis. It's never Hew you know. Yeah, but then I guess I don't know if he wasn't available or if they just didn't

want to pay anybody else because for whatever reason. But he didn't come back for this one. And I was so confused that they just said, yeah, he passed away. I'm like, wait, we missed an entire storyline of Haley and Quinn losing their dad? Am I wrong? Try them in. Our producers, Hannah, is on the call now, of course. So Hannah, if I'm missing it, let us know. But no, she says, I don't think they said it on the show, right?

So we just bypassed it. Yeah, I can guarantee you that Quinn never mourned her dad's passing because Quinn showed up when Clay showed up and that never happened. Yeah, that's right. Unless you did it on your own, yeah. That's right. We just, we just pretend, skated right by that. Nevertheless, um, okay, Brooke and Julian try and find a balance between their personal lives and work as the movie shoot begins.

Nathan and Haley receive a surprise visit from Bess Armstrong playing Lydia. And Clay supports Quinn as she faces some unexpected news. Alex sets her sights on Alexander and Millicent finds herself struggling with temptation. This was directed by Jessica Landlaw and written by, by Nikki Shefflebone. I thought the episode opened with so much fun, that kitchen scene that starts off with Taylor and Quinn. And then you come into it.

And then Jamie and Nathan, it's the sibling just rivalry and the bickering. It's pretty all time when the three of you were in the same room. That was really fun. It was a dynamic that I didn't know I needed until I saw it. And that combined with the soundtrack, whoever, that must have been a Lindsay Wolfington pick. I don't know what that song was, but it was really fun. There was a lot of energy at the beginning.

I always wanted that in my house growing up. I never got it, all of that, like, sibling energy. Now, I only know of Taylor what I've seen of late, like this season, which, don't get me wrong, has been horrendous. But has she always been this bad? I'm asking this to this end. You all rag on her mercilessly. Yeah. Is it deserved? Like, have we shown she's just straight awful all the time? There has not been, I don't think there's been an episode with Taylor where she hasn't been causing trouble.

I mean, she blew into town explaining that she took Nathan's virginity, right? I think she took his virginity. And then, I don't know if there was another time or if she, I feel like there was, and she came in, you're talking to somebody who's, I've just got the best short-term memory and my long-term memory. And my long-term memories, I have a challenge with that, especially with this show. Yeah, I don't know. I feel like she just came in that one time. But yeah, this is very bad behavior. But I love Lindsay McKeon. She is a firecracker.

Like, she really is a firework coming into every scene that she's in. And especially in this episode, I'm trying to find the note that I wrote about that. in this episode when you everyone else is being so contained everybody's hiding something under the surface and she is just everything is outside of her body she's exploding off the screen i just always want the camera to stay on her longer as even though she's causing trouble i love watching her she kind of has a bit of a dan scott vibe in that i when she comes on the screen i kind of lean in like what are you about to get into yeah yeah Because she is. She's kind of a wild card. Yeah, you never know. And she plays it so well.

That character could have been far less interesting in the hands of a lesser actor. Yep. I totally agree. You know, but she's fun, man. And because she just like, y'all are vinegar and she's baking soda. She is just there to make things explode. She can't help herself. That's it.

That's it. And she really, that's, I agree with you. that in the hands of a lesser actor, it could have been very sort of, I don't know, mechanical is the right word, but very one-dimensional, just like show up, make the pouty face and do the troublemakey thing.

But she has this deep layer of need, like the need for attention, need for love, for whatever happened. And all of the bitterness and, like, jealousy of her sisters. and all she's like carrying all of it. It's so interesting to watch. Yeah, this character could have been like every bully in a 1980s movie. Totally.

Yeah. Where you're like, oh yeah, you have one speed. It's mean and there is nothing else going on. Yeah. Like that could have been her like, I'm hot and I do what I want. And you'd be like, okay. After two scenes, you'd be like, we've seen it all. We're good.

Right. All right. Thanks, please. Yeah. The look on her face, I mean, I don't know how much we want to jump around. But when Lydia shares the news that she's sick with the girls, the look on Lindsay's face, the way she did that was it broke my heart out of everything. Like me and Quinn were kind of just shocked, and she was immediately so angry and hurt.

Yeah. And what I liked about that was that all three of your actions, all of those different reactions to that news and that grief, I feel like anyone who's gone through grief has been all three of those. Yeah. Like all of it was relatable, even though the initial reaction was so extreme, especially in the case of Taylor, you know? I feel like everyone can kind of react to the way all three of you responded to that. Yeah. Whereas I feel like you and, or excuse me, Haley and Quinn responded.

Taylor reacted. Yes. As Taylor always does. It was very true to her. But going back to that opening scene, I love how. Nathan and Jamie, they just know what's about to happen and they just quietly dip out and they go to Clay's because they know Clay has all the good cereals, which made me laugh because I always had the best snack collection in my apartment in Wilmington. That was my thing. I had a giant candy bowl.

I found out what everyone's favorite candies were. I had it stocked. So I wondered, because by this point we're 16 episodes in, a lot of people have visited Wilmington. I'm like, oh, I wonder if by this point, they're starting to write in little parts of clay that are just rob. Oh, yeah. That makes sense. I love that. I did really enjoy that because I don't think that's ever happened for. First, I was like, I didn't know you guys lived.

I don't know Clay lived that close to Nathan and Haley that they were just like, just get in the car. We'll go to Clay's. But, yeah, everybody piling in to just eat cereal at Clay's house. Like, leaving an entire house just to avoid one person. Everyone leaves. And the fact that she catches you guys. she shows up too.

How does she even know where Clay lives? Has she been there yet? No, of course not. And I started to be like, how would she know? And I'm like, just enjoy this. This is a funny dynamic, cool out. But I love that Clay has all the good cereals because to me it says two things. Clay has been a bachelor for a very long time.

Yep. And Clay is still a child at heart. Yes. I just picture Clay on his day off is just like doing that thing where you pour like a little bit of every cereal into a giant bowl and just sits down in front of the TV, you know, it feels very clay. That's a great point. I think that's one of the reasons why Clay and Quinn really connect, right? Because she's so, she's, she's the oldest. She's had to take care of so many things. She's had to be responsible. She probably got married young too and has been just being the

responsible one and to connect with a guy who is, he's been through enough to experience, to have real depth and real maturity, but there is a playfulness and a youthfulness at heart that gives her a permission to play and let that part of her personality out. I really like that about you guys' dynamic. Wait, Quinn is the eldest? Yeah. That's so interesting because I wasn't quite certain. And then watching this episode, I just assumed you were the eldest by the way that Lydia kind of calls upon you to be the lynchpin to be the strong one. Yeah. I. I I don't know why Haley was sort of, I think in her family she might have been the middle. I think was Taylor younger than Haley?

I understand that she thinks Taylor's the eldest. Oh, interesting. I know Quinn is older than Haley, for sure. I could absolutely be wrong about Taylor being the oldest one in the whole family. Yeah, fans, you guys know this stuff. You got to tell us because this one slipped through the cracks for me. Politely inform us in the comments. Like, Rob's like, I can't take it anymore.

We're owning. Okay, it's Taylor's the eldest, then Quinn, then Haley. Okay. Taylor, then Haley. Okay, okay. We locked it down. So weird, though, because what, how does that work? Usually the oldest one is the one who is so responsible.

Completely. And it's interesting that Taylor is just so angsty. I think there's also something to be said for, like I know in my family, the dynamic was, my brother was sort of the wild child. and I watched him always getting grounded and busted. And I just sort of went, I'm going to do the opposite of that. And so I just became the kid who worked hard in school. I followed the rules.

I kept my head down. So if Taylor was the train wreck, it kind of tracks that the next two would be like, let's not do that. Yeah. Yeah, I think that that does make sense. But it is funny that the baby is like literally the only one who has, you know, her ducks in a row. Yeah. That's funny. You'd think that Quinn would have been the one that went the complete opposite direction. Maybe she did in her own way. To be fair, she was on that trajectory. Yeah. She was happily married. They were probably thinking they were going that direction. Mm-hmm. And then he wanted that stupid entertainment room and ruined everything. Ruined everything.

You blew it, David. I think Haley's got a good mix of both of them in there because I don't see a lot of angst in Quinn. I see a lot of like, eagerness and wanting, just wanting things to be okay and make everything right. And I think Haley's got a good mix of just responsibility and also I feel like she's constantly bursting with frustration. Like everything's fine. Everything's fine. And it's like, oh, why won't everybody just be cool?

Mm-hmm. Yeah, it kind of tracks because it does feel like Haley's got flashes of both Quinn and Taylor to her. Yeah. She has a hot streak. She can access. We've seen you slap the. pretty off of multiple people.

But you're also, you know, level-headed and earnest and a thinker. Yeah. But I like this dynamic between Clay and Quinn. I think it's a really good match. It's fun to watch you guys. And it was really fun to watch you with Best Armstrong in this episode who, guys, we got so lucky with Best Armstrong. Yes.

I mean, she was, we were so excited when we first heard that she was cast as Haley's mom because she's, she's Claire Daines's mom from myself. so-called life. And she's had this incredibly illustrious long career in Hollywood. And the fact that she would come on our show and play with us and just interact with us and show up, not just on set, but she actually really invested and stayed in touch and went out and had coffees with us and cared. She was really like a mom to us in many ways, as much as you can be with all the moving around in this industry. But she's consistent. Instantly has showed up and stayed in touch.

And it's amazing. We got really lucky with her. I remember the first word I think of when I thought, oh, yeah, I remember this. And I vaguely, very vaguely recalled us shooting that scene on the stairs. But the first word is warm. She was very warm. Like very, there was like no ego. She was very accessible.

Like you said, she was interested in other people. Well, she was terrific. And then she just does such a good job with the storyline. But yeah, I loved that scene with Clay and Lydia on the stairs talking about grief. Yeah, it felt really meaningful to bring those two together in a way that I just wasn't, I wasn't expecting that scene. I forgot that that scene existed. The fact that she comes into town, you know, obviously she's got this news that she's dying. and she comes in

and what really struck me about the conversation with Clay is that here's someone she doesn't know I mean she's obviously he's her daughter's love and this is someone that she wants to invest in before she passes but there's usually a dance of niceties there's you know it takes time to get to know someone and drop into these really deep places

and I imagine when you know your time on this earth is limited so much of those things just you just push to the side, all of the formalities, and you just dive right in. And I thought it was so interesting that she was willing to just come in and start saying all the uncomfortable things and making grand gestures, like buying the, the, sorry, renting the space for Quinn. And it just, I don't know, it made me think about that in life, like how often we, how much time we spend doing all the nice formalities and how interesting it would be to just drop in early. It reminded me of how, you know, when you become a parent and all of a sudden, 95% of your free time is gone.

Yeah. And it kind of forces you to look at all of the relationships in your life and just sort of go, I have time to nurture three of these. Like, what are the most important three? Yeah. You know, and not even that you have to, like, weed out people, but you just sort of look at the ones that are just kind of taking up space first, the ones that are actually meaningful. It kind of helps you become more efficient with your time because you're like, this small group is actually, these are the plants I'm going to water. Yeah.

The other stuff doesn't matter. I wonder if it's the same in that situation where it's like, I'm running out of time. So it's very clear what I want to do with it. I want to be with my girls. Yeah. This is really beautiful. The clarity that comes with it. But before we get to Lydia's arrival, let's jump to Brooke and Julian's movie.

Oh, excuse me, Julian's movie, but that Brooke is working on. Yeah, yeah. Because there was a lot of fun stuff in this episode. I liked how it kind of opened with them using the movie as kind of a metaphor for their relationship. Okay. Oh, yeah, in his office. Yeah. Yeah, it was cute to see them sort of talking to each other and about their situation through the movie.

Yeah, it was sweet. And then there was some great stuff. First of all, Julian is the kind of director I'd love to have on all my projects. Yes, so invested, so present, so sensitive. Could you imagine getting 16 takes without the director getting sassy with you? Nope. And then coming up and reading with you off camera like that, I just, come on. So good.

He is so good. And the patience, because when Alexander walked in and he's like, nice shot, Hitchcock, what is that? That's a, not psycho, vertigo, right? Like, can you imagine a costume designer? Like, and he's not even a co-designed. Brooke is the designer. He's working for Brooke. Walking on set and commenting on the direction that the director is giving the cameraman out loud in front of everyone.

he would never walk on that set again. Oh, he walked up, tossed a grenade into the mix, and then walked off. Like, that was emotional terrorism. Could you imagine on your first day of shoot? Or like, I don't know where they are in their schedule, but he's like the first time director. Yeah, and the guy who's already a threat to your love life comes in and just hits you below the belt like that. Terrible. But I also loved that Nathan shows up to set.

and he makes a Shrek 2. He quotes Shrek 2. And I love, but I love the reversal of where they were at the camping trip versus this because the rules were flipped where Nathan was trying to do the bit and Julian just goes,

Shrek, really? And walks away. I was like, good for you, Julian. Give him some guff. He deserves it. Yeah, that's right. Although I don't know why he gives it to Nathan and not to Alexander Coyne.

I was, my jaw was on the floor. It was misguided. I did like that. Yeah, there would be more choice words. I thought this, first of all, Janet Kramer's such a wonderful actress. It really is so nice to watch her on camera. She's another one like Lindsay McKeon where there was, there's just always so much more going on underneath the surface. And while all the rest of our characters were reacting or holding something in,

these two were really propelling things forward just in their, in two different ways. I mean, Lindsay was just exploding. And I felt like Janice character, Alex, like we've seen her be soft in a manipulative way. But this felt like it was an authentic personal journey for her that I was leaning into. I was doing the same thing that you were saying before. I was like, it brought me in to her inner turmoil because she was just wearing everything on her sleeve. Yeah, and this is the storyline I wanted to see for Jana. Yeah.

Not for Alex, because I know Jana's is good and she's very talented that I wanted to see her go to this level. I mean, that scene where Julian talks her through and she just pulls it out, what's so funny is, like, that's not easy to do. Right. And what's so funny is it's so meta, right? Because they're shooting a fake movie, but she's actually acting and has to be. to do the same thing for our show. Yeah. So it's like people don't get it.

It's like oftentimes people have to step away, listen to music, whatever your process is. So I'm always impressed when someone can just on action, boom, drop in and go. And she killed it. She really did. It may look different, but native cold. is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing

for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. what is your process when you have to do that stuff rob i know you talked about before where you used to have to stay in character all day and it was really brutal for you do you still feel like you have to do that or have you found a different method no i don't do that anymore that was

no emotional acting you don't do that anymore yeah exactly it's i it's either eyebrows or laughter those are the two things i do it's two speeds yep that's exactly you're right. I'm like the bully from the 80s movie with one extra speed. Bad attitude and eyebrows. Now it's just, like I said, I used to have, it wasn't even like staying in character as much as it was like just staying in sadness. So it was like whatever kept me in that place where I was just wavering on losing it. Now, now I try to keep it more honest and just think about like the reality of what it is, you know, and just sort of go with that.

So you feel more connected to your characters now in that way. Like you can just be who they are in the moment. Yeah. And so much of what I do is just going, how do I think I would react if I was in this situation? Yeah. You know, that's a lot of what, at least it is for me, you know, is just trying to find the truth of how would this feel, you know? And so to that end, it's kind of it.

But I don't like having to do crying. And whenever I read a script, especially when they're like, a tear rolls down his cheek. I'm like, ugh. don't forecast the tear, especially when it's not earned. Like, I just did something where there was like a beat of joking and then there's one line and then I'm supposed to be welling up. And I went to the director and I was like, hey guy, this is a manic turn. What do you say we don't do that?

And he was like, great idea. That was crazy. I wish they would, somebody would do an actor's pass on scripts because scripts have to get turned into studios and it's a bunch of executives who are not creative and they're not actors and they have to they need the tear rolling down the face in the script so that they can sort of watch the movie in their mind and understand like the emotional arc almost has to be spelled out for a lot of people who don't do what we do and who are up in the higher ups in their suits and seats making decisions but wouldn't it be nice if there was somebody who just took all of the

stage direction out and turned in a script to you that was basically just dialogue and like a couple of basic stage directions. That would be incredible. You know what I would say my trick is now is that I let myself off the hook. Yeah, so it's there, but you ignore it. Exactly, right? I don't feel, because that was the problem before was, I have to start crying at this point. And as soon as there's that pressure, I like rarely, if ever met it. Yeah. So now it's sort of going, I'm just going to be as sincere and honest as I can. And if that's where it gets, it's earned and it's real and it's great. And if not, that's okay. Did someone teach you that was there a moment when someone taught you that and like the idea of not having to stay in sadness but having to, but being able to just

drop into the moment with your character? Because it's interesting to start a career with these particular habits and then at some point switch over and do it differently. No, because I didn't train. You know, I sort of took one acting class in college and loved it and that was enough to get the bug and then, you know, I took a couple acting classes when I first got here, but I didn't have proper training, which is why, like, I come to one train. It's the first time doing proper sadness and grief. I didn't know, which is why I was like being wildly inefficient with just how hard I was making it on myself. Did it just occur to you? Like, I just want to do things differently. Did you hear people talking about different ways that they did it? Because that's a hard

transition, I think, when you're so used to doing something a certain way. And it's your whole job to start being like, I'm going to try it and do it this way instead. Like, how long did that transition take? I see, I don't know. I know in my very first TV show, we had this director, David Hogan, and he said to us, something effective, like, just make sure it's

honest. And for some reason that stuck with me, and that always was my North Star. But as soon as the eye started working on, like, bigger stuff, I thought it needs to be a certain way. And I think it was just with enough experiencing or enough experience and then just also like listening to people I respected watching people I respected and going it doesn't have to be that way like how about like truly so much of it has been getting out of my own way and just letting myself off the hook you know I love

and not deciding ahead of time what it has to look like and just being like let's just play and see what the moment brings yeah what's your process because you kill it with that stuff at least on the outside looking in that's how it appears to me thanks it that took me a while too I started out with a very, like, I would try everything. I would try putting myself through physical pain to make myself cry, like, like poking myself with a pin in my pocket. It was a lot of peace. Or like trying to, you know, I've heard of actors that would like pull, pull hair out with tweezers, like hairs on their leg out with tweezers while they're doing a crying scene. I tried doing the same thing you're talking about, like just getting myself into a place of deep sadness.

I would watch movies. I'd probably watch the end of Braveheart like 17 times until it didn't make me cry anymore. I just would try all these different things. I think once I got comfortable in my real life, it's funny what you said about being, what your acting coach once said about being honest. Or was it a director maybe? Director. Director, yeah.

Yeah, that word is, isn't it funny how somebody can just say one random thing? It's there just a sentence in their vernacular. and they're moving on with their day and they just changed your whole life. Yeah. Yeah, I think in my real life, as I started to get more and more comfortable with emotion, which is something I wasn't really comfortable with as a child at all,

I had a breakthrough in my personal life of being willing to cry in front of people. And suddenly I was like, oh, I guess it's not the end of the world. And then I was able to use it in my work, which was really, really helpful. But I also found, you know what, another thing was I really started to rely on the other actors in the scenes with me for emotion because I don't want to just be alone, like creating a whole world inside my brain. I had this great, I've talked about this early on in the podcast, but you weren't here, so I'm going to tell you because it was so helpful. I was doing a scene with Tammy Blanchard on Guiding Light.

We were on together a long time before she blew up and started doing all these amazing movies. and she was backstage with me. I had to do a scene where I was like weeping and I couldn't figure it out and we were about to roll and I just on a week she and I had gotten really close and I really trusted her and I just grabbed her hands and we were standing off to the side on the stage in the dark and I just said, well you just look at me for a second

and she just stood there and showed up for me and we both just stared into each other's eyes and allowed all of the the shields that we put up emotionally to fall away and I saw her and she saw me and I saw her pain and she saw my pain and love and all the things it was like a direct channel into her heart and into my heart and we both just started bawling wow and that moment from that moment on I need the other actor in the scene to show up for me and I'm in auditions if it's a Casting assistant who doesn't care.

Oh, my God. Can I share with you a very embarrassing audition story? Please. So again, very early in my career. And this is at a time when it's like sadness equals tears. If I'm not crying, I'm not sad. You know, it makes no sense. Obviously, a very little life experience.

So this audition called for those like two or three pages of stuff. And then I'm supposed to walk out of the room and walk back in a visibly, emotionally distraught. So I thought, I got a trick. I chopped up onions, put them into a tiny sandwich bag, went into the audition, did my three pages, rather than, like, pretending to leave, I actually stepped out of the audition room, dug into my pocket, wiped my fingers on the chopped onions, and wiped my eyes, and went back in. And jokes on me, I still didn't cry. I just smelled like onions. Didn't get the job, sure you're all. Shock to learn.

But, like, that was, this is what I'm saying. Like, when I had no training, I was just like, no one taught me. So I was like, I don't know. Maybe this is what people do. And that is why you're an actor, because you think outside the box. You're willing to do crazy things that everybody else is, like, too scared to do. That's just it. That's, we're just a different breed, Rob.

Yeah. So I see the needle in your pocket and I raise you a bag of chopped onions. You win. You absolutely win. That is so excellent. All this to say, well done, Janet Kramer. She's been so great. You know, we work together, obviously,

but like I said, I never revisited this show. And I'm glad I did because it has given me an entirely newfound appreciation of how good she is. Yeah. In this role, she just crushes it. I'd have no idea where her character goes. I don't know how it ends, but I'm very interested.

Especially now that we're seeing this new side of her where she's being like she's turning over a new leaf not entirely new i love the way she threw herself at alexander coin that was yeah that was very her but i'm enjoying seeing a more grounded accessible version of alex me too there's no other character on this show actually there's only one other character on this show where the demand on them is to what's a good analogy The emotional requirement of bouncing, not just back and forth, but like kind of all over the scale. It's just like a little emotional Richter scale and you never know where she's going to go is Dan Scott is the only other character on the show where there's a demand as an actor to be able to flip it into something else in a moment, in an instant. And for him, it's because he's so manipulative.

And for Alex, it's because she probably has been so manipulative in her. life, but she's on this really genuine journey to try and outgrow these old patterns. But she does. There is such a requirement on Jana as an actress to be able to go cry, laugh, be sincere, be really hard, be sexy, be funny, like all of the things within one scene even. It's a lot. It is a lot. You know, and usually you get a character and you kind of know, all right, this is more or less my lane. This is sort of, these are the colors we'll be painting with, like you said, with Alex, man, it's just, it's all over the place. And again, another character who could have been wildly uninteresting in the hands of a

different actor. Yes. You know, it only works because she sells the manic high and the manic low and then is just very fun in between. Yep, I love it. I think otherwise you'd buy out. Speaking of growth, I loved to see Millie being Millie again. Mm-hmm.

I love Victoria as the mentor. It is the relationship I didn't know I needed. I know. So unexpected. She's just so good. Yeah, I know. Both of them are. I love seeing Daphne play this new version of Victoria, too.

It's one thing our show is really good at is the redemption of characters, like constantly being able to see somebody eagerly trying to grow into a better version of themselves. It's really cool. And surprising the audience. You know, you hate somebody and then eventually you're like, yeah, but they're trying. so hard. Yes. And it's so fun because she, you know how capable she is of just absolutely tearing someone

to shreds. Is this a rating? And that it is always right there underneath the surface if need be. And so it's so fun, though, to see her leaning into this kind of tenderness and this compassion. I know. And she's doing it with the character that I want to see redeemed. Yes.

So I find myself thoroughly rooting for them, which is why when. We saw Millie showing up to a meeting and just getting her court card signed and bouncing. I was like, oh, no. I know. I felt that too. Come on, you bozo. Don't blow this. I know.

It was good to see Millie being Millie. She was trying. Yeah, but then she has to reckon with herself. And then at the end, she hits a meeting and she shares and she gets honest. So it's, you know, that's when the magic happens. And so I love to see all of that. There was one scene in that, or one moment in that close over bros sequence that I found just absolutely laughable. Millie, it's after Victoria has left.

They've had their bit. And Millie's putting away some clothes. And of course, there's Millie, the model on the screen who looks exactly the same as the Millie standing next to it, folding clothes. And these two just random shoppers go, oh my gosh, that's her. Are you the model? And she goes, yeah. She goes, she looks so plain. First of all, she doesn't.

She looks stunning. Also, she looks literally identical to what she is in that screen in the ad. Yeah. That one bothered. It bothered me just as a person, as a friend. I don't know. I didn't like when the show did stuff like that. I get it.

Like, this is part of the storyline. But I don't know. Could they have had her. coming into work just a little tired or, you know, working on her recovery and maybe taking all her makeup off and made her look a little, like, darkened up under her eyes so she looked a little sad and whatever. But for the sake of Lisa, and I never asked Lisa how she felt about this. So I'm not trying to speak on her behalf, but I didn't like it. It made me feel, I wouldn't have felt good if I had showed up to work and looked exactly the same as I did every day and

like pretty with all my makeup and my hair done and then got called. plain in the script and had to, you know what I mean? Yeah, well, because it's also the world's easiest problem to fix. Yes. She comes in and she's already spilled coffee on her outfit and so she has to put on a t-shirt. Totally. Like, it's as simple as that. And all of that, except all of that can happen off camera, you know?

And so it was, and also, because I'm with you when the girl goes, she's so plain, I understand Millie's at a vulnerable place. So they played to that and that's how they did that. But what I would have loved is for her to be self-aware enough and her power enough to be like, bitch, please. Yeah. I look awesome. You know what I mean?

Are you blind? I look exactly the same. Have some strength, you know? Like, tune yourself on because it was such a ridiculous. But again, I know what they're going for. She's sort of teetering. Okay. Yeah.

But I did. There was a part of me that wanted the other version where she's like, okay. Yeah. Cool. Yeah, it's a little too caricaturey. The other line that she had to say, just before we move on from Millie, drug doer Millie, do you remember this line? Victoria walks in. Wow, how did I miss this?

What was amazing. Victoria walks in and asks her, does she say you look tired? I can't remember what she said, but she says something to her. And Lisa says, this isn't drug doer Millie. I'm just working hard or whatever. Which, by the way, it couldn't sound more like someone who's never done drugs. That is what an undercover cop trying to entrap someone says, you know? Hey, it's just me.

Pot doer Rick. Can I buy some? What? Yeah, dude. That's so ridiculous. Oh, I love it. But I'm glad that it seems that we are finally leaving that storyline in the past because. I'm glad.

too. Give me all of Lisa doing anything else but that. Yeah. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we would be doing for a kind of two years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the

importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I liked seeing Millie back at close over bros, you know, Brooks allowing Victoria to take her under her wing and because I really wasn't sure how that was going to go so and Brooke is Brooke holds a grudge I think so it's nice to see her that like historically it's nice to see her like giving Millie the space uh to still show up while Brooke is racing around this movie

set I was so confused by this storyline for Brooke though and I don't know if you feel this way but, like, I'm so used to Brooke not giving anyone the satisfaction of seeing her upset, like only her really close friends. And especially someone who's hurt her, she tends to always, she's just bristly. Like, it's fine. Everything's fine. I'm good. Like, I'm going to rise above this and I'm not going to let you see that you've hurt me.

So it's interesting to see her in this environment on set with Julian. and behaving very much with her heart on her sleeve. And I kind of wanted to see a little bit more of her pretending like everything's fine and confusing Julian rather than just having to – they wrote her just existing in so much suffering and sadness and just constantly looking longingly at – I don't know. I was confused by it. To give the writing the benefit of the doubt, could it be that she's behaving differently this time because this relationship is different for the first time.

Yeah. Yeah, it can just matter more. And she cares and wants to do things differently than she has before. Because I hear what you're saying. If you were working with your kind of ex, it feels like you would show up very much with your armor on and your guard up. Yeah, because it's not just my kind of ex. It's also my kind of ex and the woman we broke up over.

Plus my assistant is also now hitting, you know, Like hitting on her. I mean, ugh. Okay, let's just jump right to that. What happened? Okay, he's been towing for me a very awkward line of being supportive friend and dude who's low-key hitting on her regularly. So weird. And I haven't been able to put my finger on it.

And in this episode, he just randomly kisses her on the cheek and she doesn't even raise her eyebrows. Wait, Alexander kisses her on the cheek? A hundred percent. He kisses her on the cheek. Wait, what? What part of the episode is this in? I missed it. Okay.

I was watching this on the plane. I did, which by the way, as an actor in Wintry Hill, watching myself on a screen on an airplane, is extremely uncomfortable. Hey, I don't know if you've done this before. Yes, for our last two episodes, I was going to and from that convention in Paris, watching the show with myself going to a convention about the show. It was about as self-involved as it probably could have appeared. Yep. Hey guys. Do you want to watch me, watch myself?

I'm totally normal. It was, yeah, so I feel you. You got to, like, tilt that screen into the, you know, away from other people. We're going to like a window seat, please. Anyway, when did this happen? It was when he brings the suit to Brooke on set. Oh.

They have like a little, and it's not even an emotionally charged thing. Maybe it's, you know, him doing his slightly flirty, cheer you up thing. But then he just kisses her on the cheek because what happens is he kisses on the cheek and he exits and I'm fairly certain they racked to the background where Julian sees it. Okay, I must have been ordering my orange juice

or something, you know, and little snack mix because I missed it. By the way, for someone who lacked boundaries, I criticized the heck out of Nathan, like, hey, Brooke, really? In front of your potential still boyfriend-ish. I don't, you know, Alexander's... What is this?

The water is so muddy with him, you know? It is. And then he kissed her on the cheek and she's not even like, huh? She's just like, okay. Yeah, his presence confuses me a lot. I don't understand what point he's supposed to serve in the story. Because he's not, I feel like he can lift right out at this point. It's like this, it's just, it feels very random and confusing.

But maybe it's going somewhere. It feels, especially because I don't know. I don't know where it goes, but it feels to me like it was a character they inserted without fully knowing where it was going to go. Yeah. So they sort of did a whole one foot out, one foot out, or excuse me, one foot in, one foot out where it was like, let's have him be flirty, but he's also just supportive. It's like what you said on another, of previous podcast, you were, you said it's like, oh, when he first showed up that, and this is actually, this is totally in tandem with, with his first introduction. So his introduction is just kept going where they just thought he's so handsome. He can just stand there and we don't actually need to write anything interesting for him.

The audience will just love it. And I'm sorry, that's not working for me. I need some substance here. That works for him and Alex. That works with a character who is not emotionally involved with someone else. A single gal? Sure. I'll buy that.

That's enough to catch the eye. peak the interest like it does with Alex. But if that's what I'm saying is like I don't I don't know what his role was supposed to be. Was he supposed to threaten the relationship? Was he supposed to just be a kind of distraction that fosters a little jealousy? I don't know. They didn't give him a personality. He's he doesn't you know what's like what are you? You can't just be handsome. Are you are you funny? Are you super intellectual? Like what's give me something. Give me some kind of personality trait that is, oh, I get this banter. I get why they're connecting.

I get where the threat is. But there doesn't seem to be a threat. He's just there. Acting like a threat, even though it's, I'm not worried. You know, it's almost like they realized they weren't going to have Millie around close over bros for Brooke to vent to. So they're like, oh, why don't we just bring in like a handsome dude? Because if you think about it, the reason why I don't think he is long for the show is

we haven't learned a single thing about him. Yeah, that's it. Brooke hasn't asked and they haven't told us. He's just been there to ask questions so that we can hear more about Brooke and then occasionally throw a come hither stare. But it's like if it was supposed to be a threat to Brooke and Julian,

it needed to come in with a lot more depth. Yeah, I totally agree. Otherwise, it's a massive disservice to Brooke. if like when she has the love of her life and she's like but this guy has an accent and a jawline I don't know you know that's basically all they did they're like listen you're handsome you look like a superhero just stand there buddy it'll be good it's fine such a shame such a shame and then just to you know make rude comments to the director but he'll let it go because you're so handsome it's fine you can just stand there and again it's almost like he's so inconstantial

consequential that they didn't even spend time with Julian responding. He didn't even look at him? I think he just kind of looked at him and then kept going. So strange. He's like, we're going to find out at the end of this. He was just a ghost. He was just a figment of Brooks imagination the entire time. She's been just making suits by herself.

That's why no one has ever spoken a word to Alexander Coyne. That is it. Nobody talks to him except her. Yeah, I'm into it. I love that. I did love how when Alex was at the bar with taking shots, I started to write like, what are we doing? Is she on the wagon?

Is she off the wagon? Have we abandoned this storyline? What are we doing? Because again, she's been so like sincere up until this point. Yeah. And then, of course, we found out their water, so I had to write, never mind. Yeah. But I loved the line where she, maybe he says, like, aren't you not supposed to drink or something,

which why would he know that? doesn't matter. And she goes, it's not, it's not, it's water. I've replaced booze with boys. And I was like, okay, this is fun, you know? Yeah, I liked it. He seems to be on board. I was like, great.

Oh, except, hold on, is this the episode? Or was it last episode? Oh, no, it was last episode. I think it was just so finai. It killed me. They do all this cool stuff of Alex being a total wingman to Julian, right? Like throughout the movie and then going like, no, you're going to go to the 80s dance. And then at the end of the dance, how funny.

There was a moment with Alexander and Alex outside. And Alex says to him, you know it's never going to work with you and Brooke. And I think he says, like, why? And she goes, because she's in love with him. And he goes, oh. And she says, do you know why I know that or how I know that? And he goes, no. And she goes, because I'm in love with him too.

I'm like, what are we doing? Manufactured. Why are we keeping up this whole? Like, is she a threat still? You know, like? Yeah, there was a lot of moments in this episode. And I'm sure in the last couple, too. I mean, we had, it was like there were storylines that were really important for the, for the writer's room to focus on.

And then there were kind of peripheral storylines that it was like, we just have to explain everything. And I wish that they would have taken a little more time to create something that was more subtle and just trusting the audience to pay attention and understand what was going on without having everything just verbally explained. There was a lot of time wasting dialogue in this episode. And maybe the last one too. I didn't, I haven't watched that one. But yes. It just would have been so much more interesting if at the end, instead of her reconfessing her love of Julian to a stranger, if she had just been like, what's that? What's up?

What's up, jawline? You want to get out of here? Yes. Like, just replace this and just have it start, you know, half an episode sooner. Yeah. What's the problem? Like, well, we know what's going on. Yeah.

Yeah, exactly. I get it. I did love on that movie, Brooke was a total team player. You know, there's a scene where they're filled in wardrobe adjustments on Alex. And she goes, like, oh, if we rolled the sleeves up and she sees the scars. And Julian, I think, starts to say, I like that. And but Brooke sees the scars. And she's like, ah, no, I got to.

I got something even better. Yeah. Like a real quiet act of kindness. So classy. End of the day when I think Brooke sees that Alex is really doubting herself, she comes up and she says, like, you're doing good. I thought, man, that's such a high road move. It is.

That's some high frequency stuff right there. Because she's saying that to the woman who completely undermined a relationship. And I don't even know that she's doing it for Alex's sake. I don't even know that she's that compassionate as much as she's doing it for Julian's sake. Yeah, I don't know. It struck me as something that she was just doing for herself. Like, you know, I don't want to be a vindictive person. I just, I don't want to have, this is a lot, that's a lot of energy to carry around. I just, I just want to be compassionate. It's, this is, um, someone harming themselves is such an intense thing to carry around. I think so many of us would have done the exact same thing. Like, no matter what the stakes are emotionally with, romantic issues and you see another person in front of you who has harmed themselves in that way wouldn't you just like you know what none of this other stuff matters like let's just be

kind to each other and you know at the end of the day that's what matters yes that's very brook yeah it is it is it is the very uh it's the evolved response where it's like rather than getting caught up in the nitty gritty ego cat fighting stuff happening i'm going to zoom out and realize you're a hurting person. Yeah. And I'm just going to be kind. Yeah. I'm not going to extrapolate on that.

Let's just be kind. We have a question, but I do want to say Michael Grubbs is so good. Dude. I wasn't going to let us get out without talking about Miranda and Grubbs. It's so good. First of all, also that he is kind of like the other parallel of Lydia in this episode where he's the one person who's willing to die. in and ask uncomfortable questions and he's always been that way since he showed up on the scene

he really like it seems like he lives life to the fullest in that way where he's not going to dance around things he just dives right in like let's not waste time life is short like what's really going on with you he's so good at it he's great and then they're they're just their chemistry's fun it's so cute i think you have a line where you come in into the into red bedroom and she's She's there with her flower, and she's, like, kind of complaining about it. And then she's like, and he called me his girlfriend. And you're like, sounds like, are you totally have a boyfriend? Go get him, Tiger.

Yeah, it's so good. It's great. So, yeah, their stuff is wonderful. And Lydia's stuff was just great. Best killed it. You all showed up for it. It was great. Yeah.

Yeah, it was strong. It was strong work. Thanks. Yeah, and they did such a great job, too. It was a tough storyline to begin entering into. And I really, it was really well done that they wrote so much fun, playful energy at the top of the episode. And we really got to soak in the Scott family, the James Scott family dynamic feeling that, it almost felt like that, the household that it will, It did. It must have felt like the household that the sisters grew up in. So we all got to really feel that for the first half of the episode. And then Lydia drops this bomb about having cancer and having not much time left. And it was a really smart way of truncating years of experience that we haven't had as an audience because we've been living in Tree Hill with all these other characters to truncating all of that into a short amount of time so that we still really felt it. it hit home when when she best made Lydia makes this announcement

like the sorrow really I really connected I was crying on this flight watching this watching these scenes with some really wonderful actresses they were great yeah I think part of also why it was so effective

was credit to the writing it all felt believable and it all felt honest I thought the way Lydia handles it, I see totally, that's believable. You know, she's had this information for a while. That's what allows her to be in this space now. You know, and then the way each of you reacts, to me, I'm like, yeah, I could see me

reacting any of those three ways. Yeah. And there's that great moment with the two of you where you're really struggling, and she says, we're going to have to be strong for everybody else who can't be. I'm like, listen, there's one, there's at least one of those in every family. There's a lot of viewers who have had to be that person, you know, like it's just so relatable and so honest, but yeah, that was top to bottom, well executed. Yeah.

Oof, next one's going to be tough. My honorable mention goes to the final shot of Bess and U3 on the couch cuddled, and then it cuts back to an old photo of them, or of you all young. And I just, that tugged at my heartstrings, man. Oh, that really got me too. Really did. So sentimental. May I'm an honorable mention.

I'm going to give mine to India de Beaufort, who is really surprising me. You know, she showed up and it was very tough. Not her, the character, this character that she's playing, was just so tough. and unrelenting and unforgiving and cold and hard and watching her subtly, like watching her trust the audience, that she is subtle in her performance. And it's really pleasant to see that you have to watch

and pay attention in order to see the emotion that's bubbling up in her beneath the surface. And it's there. And I really, it's fun. It's like a little Easter egg hunt when I watch her on screen, and I loved it. She's fantastic. Yeah.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense. of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Listener question. Yeah, what does it say? Abigail writes, in season one, Haley says she comes from a big family, and Nathan looks at a bulletin board and asks, Are those all your brothers and sisters? By season seven, Haley has only two. siblings, Taylor and Quinn. If Haley were to have a brother, what would his personality be? And if Brooke and Clay were to have siblings, they were raised with. What kind of personalities do we think they would have and what kind of siblings would those characters be? Whoa.

What a complicated question. It's an SAT, essay question. Thank you, Abigail. Thank you. Yes, it's true. You answer first. By the end of the season, Taylor and Quinn are Haley's only siblings. By the end of this series, yes. It is, this is like what soap operas used to do when a character would, an actor would leave the show and a new actor would show up in the exact same role. And this announcer voice would come over and say, the role of Rebecca will now be played by, you know. So I feel like that's what happened here. They just, you know, it's been long enough.

There wasn't, this, the show was on. syndication, but it wasn't streamable and binging like we were today, where now if you watch seven seasons over the course of two months, every day, you're recognizing all of these differences. But back then, TV was a little different. So I think they just assumed the audience forgot, which is kind of funny. I don't know if Haley had a brother. Well, she did, right? At some point, she had brothers. That were actually on the show or just referenced? No, they were just referenced. However, I think it would probably be like my mom, actually, in real life, my mom's, and my mom and her sister were about 15 years younger than their oldest brother, and they had two

older brothers. So I'm assuming that's probably what happened with Haley and Taylor and Quinn. Maybe they just had much older brothers who were off living there. lives. I don't know what their personalities would have been like. I mean, I could have gone any different direction. They probably was one who was wild like Taylor and another one who was, you know, responsible and working a really great job and just keeping his life together and all that. I think if Clay had a sibling, I could see him having a brother like Nathan because Nathan becomes Clay's best friend. And I think, a lot of times, you know, your brother kind of is your best friend. And so I just, I think

it kind of makes sense that if he had a brother, I could see it being like Nathan, because Nathan kind of becomes his brother. Yeah. Yeah, I could see that. Thanks for the question, Abigail. Yeah, thanks. Well, Joy, well, unless you want to share some recipes. Let's spin that wheel. recipes oh most likely to become a Broadway star a Broadway star Sharon Lawrence yep done there done that oh my god she's have you seen her on stage

no she's so good but I am a fan of all things Sharon Lawrence if I find a video she and I did a did a benefit for or dang it, it's a French, I can't remember, I can't remember, I have to go find it, but she and I did a performance as nuns who turned out to be like cabaret performers by the end of the song. And she's so brilliant. Like we had a good four, five days of, it was four days of rehearsal. Like we just like really worked on this routine together. And she's such a pro. and her voice is so good if you just go on a deep dive

of Sharon Lawrence musical theater friends you're going to be delightfully surprised I've heard her sing and I've seen her dance I've just never seen any of her actually on Broadway stuff yeah I'll have to dive

there's got to be there's got to be stuff out there what about characters on the show Millie that's mine it's the first name I thought of She's very interested in ballerina, so I'm assuming she's probably taking some dance classes. You're never going to let that go.

No, also, because that's another thing that fans were like, hey, dumb, dumb. She actually said earlier in the show that she likes ballerinas and ballet and her in mouth, and I was like, well, listen, gang, I get it. Sorry, I haven't seen those episodes. I miss that too. So now I know that she genuinely likes ballet. She also just looks, she looks like someone who could just stepped off of a Broadway stage. She for sure does.

Yes. I also could see mouth. He seems to be someone that just really interesting opportunities come his way all the time that are just out of left fields. This feels like something that he would do. Completely. Also, Millie is, she has a lot of the reluctant star energy going on. Oh, yes. We've already seen it with close over bows.

You could see her getting thrust into a starring role all of a sudden and she kills it. And she's like, what's going on? Yeah, yeah. It's so good. Thanks everybody for joining us. Next episode, season seven, episode 17. Oh, I think I directed this one. At the bottom of everything.

Cool. Yeah. We'll see you next week, guys. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about the. high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school queens we'll take you for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens drama queens smart girl rough girl fashion but you'll tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens it may look different but native culture is alive my name is nicole garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop.

That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.