Drama Queens - Dial 988 • EP316 w/Colin Fickes

Episode Date: September 19, 2022

Joy, Hilarie and Sophia recap one of the most pivotal episodes of One Tree Hill - “With Tired Eyes, Tired Minds, Tired Souls, We Slept.” As emotional as the episode that aired was, what went on behind the scenes was impossible to describe, until now.  The Drama Queens are joined by Colin Fickes who played Jimmy Edwards as they discuss the powerful making of the show and what it meant on a larger, real-life scale. So much we didn’t know and a reminder of things we need to remember...It’s truly an episode you won’t want to miss.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Hey, everyone. Due to the nature of today's episode, we are going to change our format a bit. We're only able to be here with you every week because we have the support of our incredible sponsors, like the folks we talk about weekly who come here to support this podcast. But this week, as a team, we've chosen not to air ads. It doesn't feel right for this episode of Drama Queens. So when we start discussing this episode, we're all just going to stay in it with you. it feels like a hard one to take breaks on and we're very grateful to all of our sponsors for giving us permission to air this episode uninterrupted and we love you this episode deals with the topics of depression and suicide if you or someone you know is suffering please call the

suicide and crisis lifeline by dialing 988 hey guys we're not even gonna try to hide the emotions in this one um this week we're watching season three episode 16 with tired eyes tired minds tired souls we slept uh you might remember that this aired march 1st of 2006 and 316 is the episode where a regular school day at tree hill high um turns incredibly dangerous and into a tragedy because Jimmy Edwards brings a gun to school. And we're all a mess. And we've been reading a lot of your messages. And I think what's struck the three of us so much is that a lot of you have written about how you've rewatched this show so many times before we started our podcast and that very often you all skip this episode. Yeah. And, um,

I kind of wish we could have skipped this episode. I'm glad we're going to talk about it. I am too. First and foremost, I love you guys. Yeah, I'm having trouble like making eye contact because I just... Me too. I don't want to fucking do it. So, here's what I want to say, though, before we bring in our guests today,

because we're really lucky that we have a fabulous guest today. We'll bring them. in very soon. As the mother of a boy, this is something that has troubled me since the moment he was born. And years after we shot this episode, in 2010, a book came out called Columbine. And it was written by one of the first journalists who arrived on that scene. He had helped perpetuate the myth that it was the loners and the kids that were bullied that were committing these crimes. And then he spent the last, then the 10 years after that, undoing it as he learned more about the boys that, um, that did Columbine. And as a mother, it was really

important to me to learn more about that kind of anger, um, that kind of behavior with the warning signs are. And so we, as the first generation of people who lived through Columbine, I was, Sophia and I were juniors when it happened. Joy, you were senior. You know, it happened while we were in high school. And I think it's safe to say it affected all of us a lot. And now we're parents. And what are we going to do about? at it you know that's what's really um heavy is that i think when we were teenagers we thought the grownups would fix it and here we are the grownups and we're still yeah dealing with it and um i wish we'd known when we filmed this episode what we have come to know about how these

situations get built up. But I think the reaction's the same. You know, I think we've learned a lot about the kinds of people who perpetrate these crimes. It's not the Trenchcove Mafia. It's not my friends who were the goth kids. It's not even the bullied kids. It's the radicalized, misogynistic kids who are engaged in forms of domestic violence.

there are red flags and so Colin did a wonderful job with the information we had at the time he did such a beautiful job with what was written and he he humanized a person's suffering and it's an incredible skill as a performer

to play someone who could be put in the category of villain at a level like this you know someone who shoots up a school yeah and i don't know if it was happenstance or intentional that they did make him such a different character you know they made him a kid with a handgun who fired a warning shot they made him yeah he isn't one of the kids who does this and you're right it's incredibly important that as we have all the information we have we talk about, you know, the grooming by violent extremist groups of young boys in this country

online. And that we didn't know any of that then. That didn't exist in our awareness then. And there is a part of me that wonders if, and I'm only realizing I wish we could ask the writers in this moment, if for some of the reasons or some of the understanding that we didn't know why kids were carrying assault rifles into high schools. Is that why they wrote Jimmy to be different? Is that why they wrote this differently? Is that why they humanized every single person in that tutor center in the way that they did? I don't know the answers, but I do think, to your point, Hill, it's incredibly important that we get clear on what we know about how this happens.

while we also go through the emotions of experiencing something like this together. That was rough. I was so hard to watch and so I was so blown away by Colin's performance. That moment when he fired the first shot and his eyes went wide and he was just so shocked at his own behavior, what he was capable of us. He was scared. But he was scared, but it's like once you make that choice, any choice in life that is wrong, but you do it. And then you have to decide whether you're going to double down or quickly say, whoa, this is wrong. I'm backing out.

And very rarely, I think, do people back out? And then, you know, to watch it all just continue to snowball down home as he continued to fall down into this pit of despair. It was hard. Do you guys remember when we got the script? Like, Joy, you were the one in the classroom with Jimmy. Do you remember getting the script for this? I don't remember getting the script. I wish I did.

Well, I just remember being really mad. because I did not want to do this. Like, I've always really believed in the power of words, in the power of suggestion, and the more you talk about something, the more it happens. And that was my mindset in my early 20s. Like, why are we even bringing this up? Why are we planting this seed?

I mean, here we are, almost 20 years later, and the shit just keeps happening, no matter how much we talk about it. I remember getting the script, and I remember they printed it all on red pages. so it couldn't be copied or leaked or anything. And, you know, Hill, to your point about Columbine, I, like, I had to go be by myself for a while after I read this

because it took me back to junior year in Mr. Hallman's science class. One of my best friends from growing up lived in Colorado, starting in high school. And for the first, I think it was like an hour when we heard there was a school shooting in Colorado nobody knew where at least we couldn't get information in our class like nobody had iPhones you couldn't look shit up and we were teenagers and it's not like they put the news on in school and we were just waiting and I remember thinking like what if it's her school and this

script really brought that home like oh this this we now are tasked with representing the people who say today it's my school. Yeah. And it was hard. I mean, this stuff is, it's hard to know. You know, they said, well, if we're going to go out, let's tell the truest story we know.

And there's the reality of, why are we going to put this on TV? And there's, there's so many things that are true at the same time. We need to examine this and are we setting, are we putting this in someone's mind and are we going to traumatize people or are we going to educate people or it's so big and it. It felt like an education to me. I thought it was so beautifully done. I mean, the things that were said, mouth is mouth speech. Oh, that speech is beautiful. Incredible. The whole conversation was had from all angles. And I loved that, that they, everyone addressed all of their feelings and fears. And it was just all laid out in the open.

And I thought it was done really, really well. And that's really on Colin. I mean, he grounded this episode. I can't imagine being handed this script as him. Yeah. Bring him in. Where's our friend? Guys, we're so lucky that Colin is joining us today. There's no way we could have this conversation without him. So Colin Fickis is here to join us, our very own Jimmy Edwards, the most beloved bad guy in the history of One Tree Hill. He's not a bad kid. He's not a bad kid. He's a good kid. Hi, Colin. I miss you. I'm the weirder that waves in Zoom. Yeah, you do too. Colin, you look great. It's great to see you.

You're the fun one. You're absolutely the fun one. And we have to talk about dark shit with you. And that, uh, that's hard. So we can do it. We can do it. We can do hard things, right? Love you so much.

Where are you right now? Are you in the city? I'm in the city. Yeah. I'm in, uh, we have an apartment in the city. And then I, uh, I am moving upstate for my job. Yeah, you are. On the house yesterday.

So lots of things happening. It's good to see y'all. Congrats. I'm so good to see you. Colin, did you watch the episode or was it too hard to? I did. But I also fast forwarded some because I was just like it's, I think about the Paul Thomas Anderson quote from Magnolia a lot.

Like you may be through with the past, but the past is not through with you. I think that's fairly relevant for what we're doing here. But I don't know. Yeah, it's hard to watch. Very hard to watch. Well, so you were amazing. Let's talk about your experience on the show, though, because I think that did play a part in kind of how this all came full circle.

You know, we've definitely talked about things that have gone on behind the scenes on one tree hill. And I know that you were not treated well behind the scenes. Yeah. Well, yeah, and I don't want to talk negatively, but yeah, I mean, it wasn't the most ideal thing that happened. I know we have a limited amount of time, but I wanted to audition in L.A. I'd been living in L.A. for several years already. I'd lived in New York for three years. And so I'd kind of branched out from North Carolina.

I'm originally from Raleigh, North Carolina. And so growing up, I would go to drive two hours to Lomington for auditions. I knew Lee Norris as a kid. We would audition together sometimes. So we kind of already had that relationship. And I know they were already eyeing him for the role of mouth. And I was like, hey, guys, I'd love to be a part of him. of it can I audition in LA because I had other friends auditioning in LA and they were like,

this is a local hire. And then I was like, well, you know, can I please audition in LA? And, you know, I live here and I think that might be tough to do. And then they finally granted me an audition in LA and they're like, nope, nope, not right for the part. And then Fink Cannon and associates, the casting agents in North Carolina were huge champions of mine and they're amazing. They're like, we promise you he's right, he knows Lee, just give him another chance. And so then on my own dime, I went to North Carolina and did the exact same audition I did in the room in L.A. And they're like, you got the job, kid. And then I ended up having, you know, to get myself to North Carolina. I was paying for an apartment in North Carolina. I was also

had my place in L.A. And so what happened is I ended up leaving the show because I couldn't afford to stay. And I noticed in the second and third episode, as scripts were, you know, getting revised, we were getting, or at least my part was getting smaller and smaller and smaller, and working one day for every two weeks or whatever it was, I couldn't make it work. And so I didn't want to leave, but, you know, it was hard. And then you have the creator saying things like the studio, they only want the pretty people. And I'm really trying to fight for y'all. And And then I felt bad for leaving because I knew he was trying to fight and fight for me to stay. And so it was difficult and I didn't want to leave.

But also in hindsight, I mean, it's the most amazing thing because I always wanted to be this dramatic actor. I wanted to be like the next Phillips Seymour Hoffman. That was like my dream and had done some indie movies and like wanted to do like drama. And so to get to come back and do this was so much fun as hard as it was. But, you know, so like, yeah, that was tough. Well, it feels meta. It feels like Jimmy Edwards was left behind by the group in season one, only to, like, become this big deal in our season three storyline.

And behind the scenes, our show loved taking things that were happening in real life and kind of utilizing them on screen. And so it, you know, that was your story and Jimmy's story of, we're going to leave you behind, but then we're going to bring you back. in like huge fashion. Meanwhile, how did they know you were such a good dramatic actor? Because, Colin, there's no one else who could have done this. No.

They trusted you with this entire episode, which was so, I mean, it was all resting on you. If you didn't pull that off, it wouldn't have worked. Yeah, I don't know where that trust came from. I really don't, because I'm trying to think had I done anything at that point where they would have seen that. I'm not sure. I guess they took a big chance on me. And it's so funny, too, how it happened.

My friend Killian Ventura was at a bar in L.A. And met one of the writers, I think. And she calls me and she's like, I met this dude that's a writer on Winter Hill. He says you're going to be back on the show. And I was like, I haven't heard anything. Yeah, it was like, it was to me. I was like, I don't think so.

I don't think it ended well when I left. And then a couple weeks later, I got a call and the Cretto wanted to have me in the office at the Warner Brothers lot. And as I'm walking through the offices, I see the whiteboards of all the story progression. and I see Jimmy Edwards, Jimmy Edwards, and I'm like, what is happening? Wow.

And I pitched the idea, and I obviously was like, absolutely. Because, yeah, actors want to work. And, you know, I wanted to do the dramatic things as well. So it worked out. How did you begin to prepare for something like this? Because, you know, we've all been talking about everything shifted so dramatically, you know in the late 90s when Columbine happened yeah I mean it literally it changed all of us it changed our country and yeah I don't know I just think at least for me had I been in your

position receiving that script I know I would have panicked you know this this is big so how do you begin to even make sense of it because watching it back we watched you so closely and every choice you made every everything you put under the words and and the sensitivity and and the both and the rage and the shame and the fear it's it's just so present and alive on screen and on your face and maybe it's a defense mechanism because the emotional stuff makes me sob hysterically when we talk about it so I'm like talk to me about your craft, Colin. Let's make it functional, functional.

But truly how? How did you begin to figure out how to make this true for Jimmy? It was less about what he does and more about what he feels. All I could think about was what would get someone

to get to this, what would call someone to get to this place. And so I started there. And then obviously once I got the script, which everyone else had read the damn thing before I got it really it was days I had days what no stop I had I think maybe five five days to start you know going and I remember Hillary I passed you at base camp one night you're like have you read it oh my god you know and I'm like no I have

didn't you know it's ready and um so I literally locked myself in a hotel room and God bless my mom who would just come with me on all the auditions she sat with me and She sat with me in that hotel room and ran those scenes nonstop. It's all I did. I just stayed within that hotel room for several days and learned it. And, you know, I grew up doing theater. So it was like I just sat there and just absorbed it all and was trying to just find all of the things in the script.

But yeah, I mean, you think about all the times we've all felt like him. We've all felt excluded or not right or, you know, sad, lonely. I mean, all the descriptive words. you can think of. We all go through phases, I think, his, obviously, more intense. But yeah, I mean, that's, that's kind of how I started, if that makes, I don't know, I'm rambling. I remember being in that room with you and that you were, that we were all so impressed with how, I mean, you knew every word. You knew it. You knew it all. I didn't want to waste anyone's time. And I know when a crew member is one in the morning and they're wanting to go home and sleep,

I was like, I'm going to know all of these lines. You're such a breath. I mean, we all had the patience. We had, we all were ready to for, I think none of us knew really what to expect when we walked in that day, I mean, other than what was on the page, but. Well, everyone was ready. I mean, every one was so, everyone showed up. And Joy, I loved being in that tutor, was in the tutor room with you?

Because I just remember locking in with you a lot during that. Yeah. And so it was nice. Those were long days. That was tough. I remember losing my voice because we were somewhat shooting in order. And I learned so much as an actor doing it because I was like, don't, you know, don't blow it all in the first take.

You got to kind of have reserves and save, you know, they were even contemplating I lost my voice. They were going to give me like a shot in my neck or something that was going to like get my voice back. Oh, my gosh. Wait, I remember. I remember hearing something about this too. And then I was taking like Theraflu to try to get my voice better. Yeah. Oh, my God.

This is TMI, but I threw up the very opening scene with the cigarette. I guess it was early in the morning when we were shooting it. And that with the Thera flu or whatever, I, like, I totally peeped. Colin, this sounds a miserable experience. You know, normally on set, you have the levity. You have the relief of the levity between scenes and the, you know, just kind of hanging around shooting the shit thing. But that was not, none of us had that for this episode at all.

There was no relief. It was relentless. And I think it worked for us performance-wise, but it was exhausting. And I'm so glad that we all had each other and that, you know, A, that you were so prepared and so ready and vulnerable and ready to do, you know, whatever it took. And it really set an example for everybody to show up in the same way. And I just thought it did such a great job. I don't think, you know, acting is not just one person.

It's the whole, the whole team. Speaking of, I will say, I was so amazed that Sophia, you and Lee came back to set. I think Hillary, you were already there. And so, like, for my last shot, I just have to say it. Like, y'all came back, and it was like, it was so amazing. Joy, you were probably exhausted and that scene because that week was, we had so many crazy scenes there.

But I just remember that. And it's, it really is those little things that, like, really make it all count. But I was going to quickly say when we rehearsed the, I wore bulletproof vest and there was a blank in the gun. And we actually, apparently, from what I heard, the props, master, whoever it was, told me that we rehearsed that on the same sound stage that Brendan Lee was shot and killed. Yeah. Yeah. Really? Yeah, it was super creepy. So it was like really heavy. And then I don't know if you've ever done that in a scene, but I couldn't sleep. I like kept

thinking I was dead that night. Like I was checking. Oh my gosh. It was so crazy. And I'm not a method actor by any means, but like it was a it was a mind trip for sure. That was it was just so intense where you went and in that last scene I remember watching it at the time coming back and I remember watching it when it aired and even watching it today

it's like I have such visceral sense memory of of what it felt like watching it felt like watching the way that you were beating your chest did this like it broke my heart and again just what you brought to it there was something really incredible even as a viewer about being in that tutor center with you all because they gave us our core team and then they gave us the the newer characters you know, Rachel being the newest sort of main person

and then the jock kid whose mom calls an Abby, you know, who's a diabetic, who's such a beautiful actor. And everyone's experiences are represented. Everyone gets to voice how they might be a stereotype, but they also have their own experience nobody sees. And I remember while we watched it, what, 45 minutes ago now, thinking, wow, they did this thing where everyone's telling the truth, even though their truths are different.

Yeah. And you just brought it over and over and over again. And yeah, even then it felt like something so important to witness, and it feels so important to witness it again. And I'm just blown out. Why is it still happening? Why does it still happen? And that is the thing that really was difficult for me in watching this, because I feel like the goal when we made this episode. Like, what was our goal? Let's think about that. Was it to educate grownups or kids? There's a parental advisory at the beginning of the episode. And when we first started watching, I was struck by that. Like, oh, there's a parental advisory. Like, you know, make sure you watch this with a parent. And as I continued to watch the episode,

it felt more like there shouldn't be a parental advisory to protect the kids. Like, why are we placing all this blame on the kids? It's not the bullying. It's not these things that we blamed it on in 2006, whenever this aired. We know that the factors that lead up to this are different now because we have the data, we have the research, we have decades of information. There should have been a parental, like, mandatory viewing. Like, hey, kid, go get your parent.

Go get the person in your household that votes. Go get the person in your household that's supposed to be watching what you do online. Yeah. You know, like... 100%. That's how I read the discretion, actually. When I saw it, parental discretion advised, I thought that maybe I read it the wrong way, but I was like, oh, this means that you should be having a conversation with your kids about this.

That's what they're trying to say. Yeah. Go pull the grown-up into the room because I don't... I don't know. Yeah. It's true because parents need, look, I think it's hard for any of us to admit some of the more nefarious things in the world. It's very hard to reconcile with the fact that there are, you know, pro-domestic violence and white supremacist terrorists organizations that are grooming boys online. That's really hard. Like, it's much easier to say, if I teach my kid to be nice, maybe this will be different. It's hard to look at something so large and societal. And interestingly, what I thought the writers did very beautifully was they really made you feel

for Jimmy and Colin, you did that as an actor. You made us feel for this person who said, all my days have been bad. And you realize Rachel's right when she says, it's just 700 days. And Keith is right when he says, it gets better when you leave here. And mouth when he's like the artist in the forest. Yes. Like none of the, none of those people ever fit in.

And they become magic because of it. It's all true. Yeah. And it's true that people need to feel looked out for. And something I'll never forget that really helped me see that all of these things can be true at the same time. After the parkland shooting at Marjorie Stoneman Douglas, One of the young women, Emma, who's become, you know, a huge leader in the movement of kids against violence like this, said, don't tell me as a young girl.

It was my responsibility to be nicer to my abuser. And I was like, ooh, say it again, young lady. Yep. And she's not wrong. You know, you shouldn't put vulnerable people in harm's way and say, yeah, I know that person's violent and scary, but just be even nicer to them. and it's important. You know, Joy, you said something a couple weeks ago about how you always encourage your daughter.

She sees someone who's alone and, like, look scared to go say hi to them during lunch. And that is so important. And also knowing, like, something else I talked to her about is that my mother always taught me as if somebody is bullying you, it's because that's happening to them at home. And so it's not that you have to turn around and in kind.

You don't retaliate. You don't necessarily have to, like, have lunch at them and take them under your wage. and try and like not everyone's going to win them over yeah right but but but you could if you if you felt called to do so but so it is it's exactly what you're saying sophia it's so beautifully said that so many things can be true at the same time and it's so complicated and that's why i feel like these are the conversations we need kids to be having with their parents yeah and you want you you want kids to feel safe enough this is what i've actually just learned as a human being

people can't help you until you vocalize and ask. Oh my God. Say that again. Yes. You really, you think it in your head and you feel like somehow that you've, that the world knows what you need as a person, you know, in love and in life and in work and whatever. But until you vocalize it and really say it, like no one can help you.

And so I hope it's for kids to be like, I need to speak up. This is how I'm feeling good or bad. Yes. an open dialogue, but also I have to say, too, this relates back to this show and what you ladies went through. How many other, and I don't want to, you know, how many other powerful, it's not just the creator, how many other people were there and heard things and saw things and just yeah. Yeah. You know, you look at Trump as well. How many other white men in power could have done something. Yeah. Yeah. That's right. I want to give you all the snaps. Well, enablers feel

sometimes more dangerous than the perpetrator because there's more of them. And enablers normalize things and they gaslight you and make you feel like, wait a second, I'm hurting, am I the problem? Yeah, wow. Colin, losing Jimmy in this episode was difficult for me

because it meant that we lost you. Until Jimmy dies, there was always this hope like, oh yeah, Colin's going to come back and be full time again. You know? Well, that's something I always wanted to be on the show. I never wanted to leave. I know you didn't.

You know, it just... No, the behind-the-scenes politics was bad. And so to lose you permanently, after just losing Cheryl Lee permanently, like, season three is just, like, evil. It was brutal for us losing you guys. But no, but let's talk about what the fallout from this episode was. Because I remember being very nervous that this was going to air for probably very very, different reasons than you. Yeah, I remember that.

You know, like, how did the world react to you in this episode? You know what's funny? My sister, when she came down for like one of the final days, and she was like, a lot of people are going to see this. And I, for some dumb reason, I guess I was just trying to learn the lines in time. But I wasn't even thinking about after. I was just trying to get to that finish line of like, being as honest as I could for the character and show up and do my job.

And then so my sister, Mary Holt had said, you know, God, this is going to be, a lot of people are going to see this, and it's going to be crazy. And all the responses have been amazing. I mean, I was getting fan mail for a while from all over the world. People were telling me stories of times they almost committed suicide and wasn't even stop. Times that they felt lonely and they've done all this inner work and, like, learning, you know, it had an impact and I know that for sure and so I know it sounds cliche but the whole thing of

if one person's affected but it is true and so it's been pretty amazing there was one thing that was hilarious I'll never forget I was like at the coffee bean and tea leaf in LA a couple months after I guess it aired and I walk up and this girl was like you on Montreal you were so funny but I have forgotten that I guess there was funny stuff in the beginning yeah that's what she was referencing and and then everyone's like you killed Peyton and I'm like I just shot her in the leg I didn't kill her I don't know it was interesting but yeah I mean it's still even at 42 it's like people remember it people talk about it yeah yeah it's definitely in the top five most iconic episodes of our show I would say in the top yeah two or three you know it yeah for sure is such a game

changer um what were you going to say joy I well I was going to say that I what you were talking about it's having a long lasting impact and it made me think of another reason why it is great for kids to watch something like this and hear all those speeches about you know you're supposed to get past it it does get better and all of those things is that one element of it is that that that really struck me when I was watching is I noticed how many times Jimmy was talking about me me this is what happens to me this is how I feel this is what I go through and you know we're you know Hillary you and I are Colin do you have kids Hell no, I can't even keep a plant a lot.

Like even a succulent. Succulents are like, amazing guys to keep alive. I know what I'm getting you for your new house. Someone's getting to silk plants. No plants. I know. All right. Well, Hilaryne, you know, you and I are raising kids.

And kids are little narcissists. And that's kind of how they're born into the world. And then as they grow, we teach them how to have empathy and how to grow out of that. And hopefully by the time you're in high school, you're at the tail end of it. you're really learning how to see the world through the lens of how can I serve, how can I be a service. And it's not so much just about me and how everything's impacting me. But it is high drama and that, of course, that's how we all are feeling when, you know, once you hit high school, the drama is high and it's just so much self-focused. And I don't know, as we were watching

the episode, I had never seen it through that lens before, but it really started hitting me that I hope that part of the long-lasting effects of this were that kids were able to watch that and see it's not so much just about how I see things that as you're saying Sophia all these things can be true at the same time it is complicated there are multiple people people's experiences that we all you know sift through and live through and I just hope that and I don't know maybe if you heard some of that as people talk to you about seeing things through from a new perspective. Is that making sense?

It's a little bit of words. No, that makes total sense. But Colin, Colin, you hadn't worked in a school. Like, you worked in a school. And so I would love to know your perspective of like, you know, we went to school in the 90s, different planet. Yeah. Right?

As these kinds of stories get told, because we weren't the only show doing this. They did this on like any other show that was about high school. There's been a version of this. do you feel like talking about it has been helpful are the kids articulating things differently like what and did any of them recognize you as jimmy edwards walking their halls well luckily i i wasn't with the middle school and high school it was still elementary level okay the elementary school campus but i mean that still happens like i there were so many issues with kids being mean to kid you know you would see it is that what you're asking if

yeah i mean i know you know the campaign has been like stop bullying stop bullying stop bullying stop bullying stop bullying stop bullying and guess what we've all had those talks with our kids and either the bully still the bullying is still happening or even if it's stopped the shootings are still happening you know i don't know that it's the bullying you know the anger the anger has to be coming from somewhere yeah but i have to say too as an as on the teacher's side or the um admin side yeah it's happening with the adults too really like oh yeah and that's just like private school politics i think um or school politics but it's like the adults still do it within teachers and grades and like you know there's still i hate to say it but like there's the kids are probably subconsciously seeing

that too it's like the adults still haven't figured it out and you know no kidding it's also interesting you to the point of why this stuff happens, we're talking about how now we've got the research. We've got decades of research, studies, data, information, not just from our own country, but from around the world. And that's what explains why we are the only one of our peer nations where this happens. And I was just reading this article yesterday, really fascinating research piece in the Times talking about how it's the same sort of targeted grooming of boys by these sort of alt-right groups that create this sort of misogynistic violence that mirrors between school violence and domestic violence. And it's a similar kind of hyper-focused targeted

group that is promoting disinformation and polarization in our society. And they're explaining how we're more polarized now than we've been in nearly 100. years. It's like just pre-World War II level of animosity toward the, quote, two main groups. And the thing that really struck me is that they're saying that the difference between the hyper-polarization we're experiencing now and what we were experiencing in the 1930s is that the hyper-polarization exists in children as young as 11, where it used to not happen until people were in their post-collegiate years. Wow.

At least politically. And that gave me a... Yeah, because people used to not talk about politics over the dinner table. That was just like... But it's actually not even about the conversation. They talk about how we used to have a sense that regardless of, you know, quote-unquote, which side won, that the institutions were taking care of the country. And you might have a preference for a side.

But you believed in the, not complete, but sort of partial neutrality of the institution. And now we don't believe anybody's neutral. And now we don't believe anybody's on our side except the people who we think are on the same side. And it was, it's a long article, but it really made me think about how these groups that have seen, it's grotesque to call it success. But they've seen success in the way they've been able to cultivate this super violent boy culture. and they're doing it in every other sense of culture now, and they're aided by the internet.

And I'm just like, whew, we have a lot of work to do. Yeah, to undo. That happened with the vaccination stuff with yoga. Like, it reached, like, all the different demographics. Yes. Wait, Colin, are you hanging in the yoga crowd? Are you a yoga mom? No, but I used to do hot yoga, and I loved it.

Oh, and I needed to get back into it. But so it's interesting when you say that, like, even among teachers, see it. This thing really got my brain going yesterday. And I just think, yeah, man, I wonder, I wonder what ways in whatever groups we're in, we can gather to undo it. Because, you know, what do you do? What do you guys do in your teacher's lounge? What do we do here on this show? What do we do in each of these little spheres we're in? It requires vulnerability. And that's the hardest thing in the world to do.

You know, we know how hard it is to do that just in a, if you're married or into your own relationship, just to be like, okay, I need to be vulnerable and ask for something or say something or say, I don't understand or I'm mad at you or whatever. Like, I'll say the things. Yeah. It's so effing difficult. I mean, it's just so hard. Well, how do we expect kids to do it, you know?

Yeah. That's what I'm saying. If the teachers in the teacher's lounge can't do it. Exactly. Yeah. But that's what I thought this episode did so well and what you brought. I mean, Colin, you gave everyone permission to go somewhere. Every single person in this episode got vulnerable.

Yeah. And it was beautiful. You were beautiful. There's a reason, you know, we looked back because we thought, God, we all remember how we felt at the time. What did people have to say about this? And there's a reason that people multiple times said this is a landmark episode of this series. And truly, I do not mean this hyperbolicly, truly, Colin, I think you, you led this episode, you were the tip of the spear. You set an intention and you brought a presence and everybody went, oh, we get to go there.

We're going with him. And you should have won a fucking Emmy, Colin. You should have want a fucking Emmy. I was thinking the same thing. And I just wish we had been able to keep you even after. I lived with half the AD staff and I remember them coming home from work and being like, why are we losing that one? We have to work with so many assholes. Why are we losing that one? He's a treasure. A treasure. Colin, I'm so glad you're working in film again.

Do you have to go to the airport? You're leaving to the airport, right? I'm leaving soon. Yeah, I'm going to Spain for a couple of days. You deserve this. I just got back from Spain. Where are you going? Oh, nice. We're going Madrid and then Valencia and then Menorca. Oh, my God. It's been a long time coming. And so we're going to have some wine and just hang out. Tell us what you're doing right now. Yeah. Where are you working now? Because I'm so happy that you're not in school anymore.

It's actually because of you, Hillary. No, it's not because of me. Yes, it is. You turn me onto this organization. It's a nonprofit. It's called Stacade Works. We're based in the Hudson Valley. It was founded by actress and filmmaker Mary Stewart Masterson.

She's my boss. Queen. We train, we mentor, and we refer Hudson Valley residents for below-the-line crew positions and TV and film. Wow. And our focus is access and inclusion, obviously, and unfortunately, so many people in the industry behind the camera and in front of the camera look like white cis males like myself. And it can be like very much a boys club and hard to get in.

And so we fight to have access and inclusion for more women, BIPAC, veterans, anyone and everyone that feels like they've been barred access to the industry. And so we train, then we mentor and we refer. So bring your projects to the Hudson Valley and we can hire local crew. and not everyone looks the same. And I love what I do. That's amazing. For anybody at home,

if you could learn how to work in the film industry from Colin, do it. Like you are a wonderful teacher. You're a wonderful advocate. And you're just so fun, which is why I hate that we had to have you on for this really sad episode. Colin, we should be dishing about our drag queen adventures right now. I know. I know. And I do have to say, you brought me on for that project a couple years ago, and I hadn't acted in so long. And I was like, oh, I'm like finally getting to play like an openly gay character. And remind me to never go full birdcage if you ever have me back. What are you fucking talking about? Colin, the whole time we're filming a movie together. He was like, am I being too gay. And I'm like, what are you talking about Colin? You're a gay man. Yeah. The birdcage exists in my top five films of all time. So I love it. I'm going to say you should go more birdcage.

Okay, maybe. And we need to do more. We need to do more. We need to have the fan base write in like a totally different narrative for us to do with you that does not involve tragedy

that is just pure pleasure seeking. That's what we need. Let's go make a movie. In Spain or the Hudson Valley. Let's do it. I'm down. It was so good to see you. Thanks for having me, by the way.

I love you. Travel so safe and will you send us lots of pictures. I will. Absolutely will. And one of my best friends who is an actor and his wife live in Madrid. So Hill, will you put Colin and I on a text? I want to connect.

I'll get you a little tip list. Oh, I would love it. I would love it, love it, love it. I'm doing it right now. I'm so glad you came. Yes. I love new ideas, new places. Yes.

Awesome. Thank you all so much. Baby, I love you. All right. So much love, Kahn. Bye, everyone. Bye. Oh, my goodness.

Angel. He's amazing. I love him. Perfect. He is just such a gorgeous human. He's so patient. I remember him being such a patient actor to work with. Making space for everyone.

Oh, Hillary, thanks. Hillary just hooked us all up on text. And he's so smart and insightful. Yeah, you're right. If you have a chance to work with him, take it in any capacity. Well, also, he came up as a child actor. You know, both Colin and Lee were child actors. And rather than be rivals, they were advocates for one another.

You know, they set such a good example. They could have been bitches to one another because I'm sure they, like, took jobs from one another. You know, I bet they tested for all the same stuff. and instead they were collaborative and really supportive and Lee really mourned the loss of Colin on our show because he lost his soundboard, you know, the person that he got to do fun banter with. So, I don't know, like we said at the beginning of Colin being here,

the meta of it all. Colin being dismissed, Jimmy being dismissed, and then getting them back just for a moment felt like a cheat. And not to be snippy, but. occasionally we are, to get him back for a moment where he mopped the floor with everyone and was like, oh, you're going to, you're going to lose this? Yeah. Peace out, bitches.

It was so gorgeous. It was gorgeous. I just hope that the folks were snippy about when, oh, we made a real big mistake. Uh-oh, we messed up. Oh, no. Boy. Yep. But by the way, for anybody out there that's casting a movie, put Colin in it.

Because, one, he makes everything better. But two, he's also such a pro and makes everything behind the camera so fun. Like, let's all I work with fun. I like fun. That's all I want. More fun. Fun, damn it. It looks like we have a listener question, but I can't see it.

Oh, I've got it. Weird setup here. Christina asks, during the school shooting episode, where did you draw your emotions from? Did you do research or watch any news coverage from previous school shootings? That was such a heavy episode, and I went through so many emotions watching it. I'm sure it was very emotional filming it. I'm trying to remember what I did. I think we all probably read some articles and watched some documentaries and things, but ultimately, it's just your worst nightmare.

Well, and we'd been living through it. That's the thing. Yeah. You know, it's a, we spoke at the top of this episode about what it was like when Columbine happened. And, you know, for me personally, I don't know if it was an hour or five hours before I knew that it wasn't my best childhood friends high school. But it felt like years. I mean, everyone at my school was hysterical. And I imagine for each of you, you know,

it's a, it's a moment where your very sense of safety in the world around you gets broken. And for that to happen here in our home country over and over and over again, and for it not to be the highest national priority to change it is something that changes you. And I know for me and, you know, just given the conversation, the three of us have had, I feel like I can say for all of us, that's a, that's an emotional presence that doesn't go away. Yeah. I mean, I remember going to school after Columbine, and it did shift, it shifted the way everyone looked at each other in school. We were all, especially the kids that did show up, because at the time, you know, we were thinking, oh, it's the goth kids,

it's the trench coat, you know. And so the kids that did show up, um, grand, grand, and wearing clothes that were like different from everybody we were it pushed them out further remember people we all just there was this sense of yeah it changes your the way that you look at your safety in the world but even just among your peers where you feel like it's a safe it's a safe place we're all yeah we're all going to get past it it's all okay right right wait right maybe it's not and to have a distrust like that uh seeping through your hallways every day, especially for people who already feel that kind of distrust at home and then they go to school and then they're dealing with it there. It's just impossible.

It's just so hard. My high school experience was that I was fringe with the Trench Coat Mafia. They were my people. We would go to poetry slams together. We did theater together. Those were my friends. And the ringleader of that group was my friend Scott Kirkpatrick, who, if you've ever seen my posts on Memorial Day or Veterans Day, he ended up joining the military because he really believed in the freedom of speech and wanted everybody to have that. And he ended up dying in Iraq. So when we filmed this episode, he was still alive. And he was the person I was thinking about because, like, to your point, Joy, those kids were pushed further out. When now we know all these...

I always felt so bad for them. Now we know all these years later that it was bullshit. And I knew it was bullshit in 1999 when it happened. When those groups were targeted and blamed. At our school, they had like a trench coat ban that went into effect. And they would, like, you couldn't wear Jenko pants for like a while because you could hide something in there. It was stupid. It was stupid.

And it targeted everyone who wasn't a jock. and you know now we know otherwise but when we filmed this episode I remember still feeling a lot of anger that these groups were by being targeted because we did kind of that's what we perpetuate in this episode you know that it's the Picton kid and yeah I guess I was just really struggling with that and so I listened on my iPod on repeat the song from lay miss empty chairs at empty tables and i remember that just like feeling the loss of not just the kids who had been shot not just the kids who perpetuated these things but also the loss of like the kids who no one trusts anymore and who are being like side-eyed and ostracized

um we had a member of our crew who'd been shot And he came and sat with me and kind of talked to me through the wave that you feel, not just because you're in physical pain, but because you don't know what's going to happen next, you know? And you know that you're so vulnerable, you know? I was like, is it real that, like, Peyton hasn't lost that much blood? Is it real that she would be fading in and out already? You know, there were technical questions I had that I didn't want to screw up

because I knew that there were kids who, actually lived this experience. And you don't want to fuck it up. And he was, he was really wonderful. Yeah. And we found out after we filmed all the stuff in the library, and I didn't even want it in the library, because that still felt so Columbiney. Like, the library stuff just, it was a reference I felt like was too much. But after we filmed, we found out one of the extras that we had on set had been a student at Columbine when that happened. And she had no idea what our episode was about until she came to work that day. Oh my God. Oh my God. Yeah. It was just one of those like freak things that happens in the world where you're like, what? How, I mean,

did she go home or did she stay? No, she stayed. And she talked with our AD staff and she was very forthcoming. She was amazing. And I wish, I mean, I wish I knew who she was. Or like, had stayed in touch. If she's listening, like, please reach out to us because we were all very, very, very unsteady about this. Guys, I cannot emphasize enough that I did not want to do this episode. And she made us feel like it was important work. So for that angel out there wherever she is, you put a lot of fears to rest. You're incredibly helpful. So thanks. Thanks for beautiful she was good well i think how old is most of our listening audience are we all grown up are we all parents and adults in some fashion i'm pretty sure that's duff um you know the

the thing about our show is that we do a lot of goofy stuff but it also is a platform to talk with your family members about this kind of stuff so um Even if you think your kid is not exposed to this kind of stuff, I'm here to tell you that they are. My own son at 11, 12 years old, stumbled upon videos that I found on his iPad. He was like, Mom, watch these funny videos with me. And they were compilations of like animal videos and epic fails. You know, they get labeled under epic fails, which is something that as a parent, you're like, okay, funny.

It's like, it's falling off a skateboard. Yes, exactly. It's skateboard videos. It's like a dog falling off of something. You know, they're all harmless. And as I watched these videos, these compilations with my son, I started to see some very alarming things mixed in. Like Alex Jones and certain.

What? Yes. yes and this is why I don't let her watch YouTube because I know there's it's like you just never quite know what you're going to get they're splicing stuff in because they're going after the kids it's spliced in so split second and so quickly but what it does is it establishes these certain personalities these radical personalities in our country and it sets a tone with a 10 year old 11 year old 12 year old oh that's a funny guy from that funny video that I watched that was funny and then thing is they're seeing a video that's a little bit longer and a little bit longer and it

establishes a pattern of these voices are funny and by the time that boy is 16 or 17 years old unless he has a parent or an authority figure that comes in and it's like this is not funny and I'm going to lovingly explain to you why they're radicalized so yeah you got to show up in your kids it's really hard you're into you got to pay attention you got to pay attention Well, and to your point, you've got to look for where it's buried. Yeah, it's totally buried. Much like when a woman finds herself in an abusive relationship, people go, well, how'd you end up with that guy? Or why'd you stay?

Because it doesn't start there. It doesn't start with the snowball being the size of a boulder. It starts with the snowball being the size of a P. And that's how they're getting into our, in front of our kids. And these things snowball. And, you know, just last week, I'm not even going to say his name because I don't want to give him any promo, but this horrible, violent, misogynistic, he's like an MMA fighter or something, finally got banned from Twitter and Instagram. And this is a guy who had amassed millions of followers, mostly teenage boys, teaching them to disrespect women, beat women, rape women. And boys were like, no, he's the coolest.

He's just being funny, man. He's just being funny. And he got in in these little videos. And to Hillary's point, by the end, millions of kids were watching him talk for minutes and minutes and minutes. And it was horrific. I mean, horrific. I couldn't get to the end of some of these videos. And I'm an adult.

But I want to know what we're up against. And this is why it's so important to show up and pay attention to what your kids are watching and what they're. And also to teach. them to self-govern so that they have the ability to spot some of this stuff and go, oh, I don't want that to be a part of my world. I don't know that. I know that I know that I don't fully understand it all, but I know that I trust my parent or my guardian or the person that is mentoring me and looking out for me when they say, this is not good for you. I'm not going to try and sneak it. I'm not going to try and get it. That's a character development thing.

you have to start teaching your kids young, and as they grow, they will. It works. I've done it with my own kid. I've seen other people do it with their kids. You can teach your children to self-govern. And that's one of the most important things, because voices like this are probably not going away anytime. So everyone has a right to their own thought and their own space. And that's why it's so important to be vigilant as a parent so that you can monitor and teach them to monitor themselves. It was so much easier growing up in the 80s, honestly. If I could go, back and be an 80s mom you better dial up i can believe i would sign up for that just books and bangs let's go books and banks can we put that on a t-shirt please jesus books and bangs tell me about it

well honestly like hats off to all of our guest stars in this episode because alison scagliotti was amazing um amber was amazing who's the guy that played marcus yeah who was that do we know awesome and why didn't we get more of him yeah he was a great actor and should have played felix is my take yeah he was great yeah yeah i would have supported that that would have been awesome um but marcus coloma jinks or is this the pattern of us naming characters after after people's real names on our show seems like it's like they just didn't want to have to deal with it they didn't want to have to think about it it was like honestly with The cast this big, you can't expect the directors and the AD staff and all the producers

to remember people's real names and character names. Don't be ridiculous. No, no. No, of course not. Add him to the Hall of Fame with Antoine and Bevan and so many more of our friends. Yeah. But also, before we leave, we have to address the Keith of it all, which I know that we are going to talk more about in the next episode. Yeah. Let's put a disclaimer up for suicide on this episode um because that's ultimately what it is i don't i don't know if this is a school shooting episode but i know for a fact it's a suicide episode it's a suicide episode yeah that's right um and that is accurate pain is uh pain is very real when you're in the depths of it and you don't see a way out and so let's make sure we post resources um you know the loss here is kind of unbelievable

between losing Collins slash Jimmy and Keith slash Craig. So, I don't know, guys. What a shit episode. What a heavy one. I love you guys. And I'm glad that we walked through this together. And I'm grateful that our audience is sticking with us through this. And hopefully everybody was able to take something positive away from it.

Yeah, and I do hope, you know, as we move forward, that we'll be able to dig a little bit deeper into some of these issues, you know, into what is happening online, into how we can activate our families and communities to push back against this behemoth of violence that we're up against, how we can advocate better for each other, for our friends that are in pain, for people who might be, you know, struggling with depression or suicidal ideation, you know, we said it earlier that it's, it's so important to be vulnerable. And, you know, Colin said that beautiful thing that people can't help you until you vocalize and ask. And one of the things that's inspired me the most about

our One Tree Hill family is that people come here to be vulnerable with each other. People share their stories and not just with us. Our fans share them with each other. They've built friendships across the world that are real. Yes. And I hope we can continue to be a place where we can vocalize and ask and witness each other. Sophia, there's an organization you just sent me a T-shirt for. I've got 99 problems. Can you tell everybody what that is?

Yeah. So, guys, something really amazing has finally happened this year. There's a lot going on in the world. And having one resource line to call doesn't make sense. If you are struggling with a mental health crisis, you don't necessarily need to call 911 to talk to a police officer. You need a mental health professional. And so this year, here in the U.S., we have finally, with the incredible support of, you know, many activists who've championed this cause, our country has launched 988. And it is the emergency mental health helpline.

So, great. You know, if God forbid you witness a car accident, you call 911 to get the cops and the firefighters. If you or someone you know is having a mental health crisis, you dial 988 and you will be routed to a mental health professional team and response option. And so hopefully 988 can really help a lot of people get the help that they need just as quickly as, you know, you would if you called 911 because there was a fire or something. That's fantastic. Gus asked to wear that shirt to school. he did yeah he was like can i wear this to school so people so people know and i'm like i love him yeah i also i love you know i'd shared about it and the the folks who've helped to run the outreach

said can we send you some stuff and i was like oh my god i want to sing care package so all my friends yeah so it's been fun to send you all and a couple of other people some mailers and they also made these great stickers that i've just been sticking on like telephone poles and mailboxes and i'm like God, I feel like a high school kid again. Are you a vandal? I mean, kind of. Instead of, like, putting up no FX stickers like Peyton, I'm out there being like, call for your mental health.

Here's where you go. Done. You're going to see me at the grocery store doing the same thing. I love you guys. Let's spin a wheel today. We need to end on an up note. I feel like we all. Yeah, we need a little bit of levity.

I'd like some happiness with the two of you. Well, we got to take care of each other. And I hope our, you know, our listeners are doing the same thing. let yourself let yourself take breaks from the darkness it's important what do we got this week we've got most likely to guys i just went to the store and picked up well first of all i died my dog you got to tell them what it is but oh shoot this is how excited joy is she's like okay winner winner so so on background it's most likely to die their hair a crazy crazy color is what the wheel spent go and then okay okay so i just went to the drugstore and and i picked up

a bottle of uh purple hair die i think i'm going to do it do it do it i mean to be fair i just toned my gray hair and it ended up a little purple so it wasn't intentional oh did it's fun it's a fine it's a fine line though like there's a purple where it's like oh this is kind of just i don't know it's like bad 90s no it's going to be hot good no it's going to be cool joy sex sexy pastel like unicorn purple and I don't I'm gonna go for that so we'll see if my girlfriends and I got these cool hair kits to like put this pink wash in our hair early pandemic my girlfriend he does all our hair early pandemic we were all locked up through like this will be so fun let's like get on zoom we'll all die our hair together and I realized I was like oh but my hair's too dark to put a wash and so I just

looked like Brooke Davis in season three just like real yeah like in the sunlight my hair was an unnatural shade of red and I was like god damn it So I need the two of you to do the pastel washes so I can live vicariously. Well, Joy wins it in real life. Which character do we think is our dye your hair crazy colors? Oh. Did we have? I don't think anyone.

Wouldn't Peyton? Would Peyton be like? Guys, we don't need to talk about Peyton hair. Peyton hair is traumatic. I was going to say Lucas. Because the only person who changed their hair more than I did was Chad. So it was only a matter of time before. he was like, we're doing it.

We're going to die at Ravens Blue. That would have been hot. You know what? He should have done that for the boys. For like one of the national championship episodes or something, they should have had them all die their hair blue. That would have been so cool. So fun.

Next convention, we'll just tell all the boys. Oh, perfect. Keep the dream alive. We'll get the spray in kind. Thanks, guys. Thanks for sticking through this with us. We're so grateful that you came and we hope to see you again next week. Yeah, thanks, guys.

As a next episode, we'll see you for the aftermath. Season 3, episode 17, who will survive and what will be left of them.