Drama Queens - Diners, Drama and Dreams • EP 810

Episode Date: March 17, 2025

Our Drama Queens try to figure out how Dan Scott went from living out his dreams to working alone in a rundown diner. They share all the behind-the-scenes fun they had filming the hootenanny wedding scene and which of Brooke and Julian's sweet moments they loved the most. Plus,  Alex proves her untrustworthiness once again and Kid Cudi and Erin steal the show with their incredible performances.Follow Drama Queens on Instagram and TikTok @dramaqueensothSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Hello, gorgeous faces, gorgeous friends and people we love. I shouldn't start, go. Someone else do it. No, no, that stays in the episode. Keep going. Why does my brain work faster than my mouth? I'm always, like, stumbling over my words because my brain is, like, further down into the sentence than my mouth can catch up to.

And then I start saying syllables that don't make sense. And then I get self-conscious about it. Does that happen to anybody else? Well, it's like when a little kid is, like, running slightly downhill too fast and you see their legs start to spin out of control and you're like, oh boy, oh boy. Here we go.

About to go to the ER. It's part of your charm, joy. It's part of your magic. That occasionally, you know, the words get jumbled up. It's just the occasional fumble, you know? We're hard for the course. Well, you know what didn't fumble was this episode.

No. Oh, no. You guys didn't like it. I like, so if space says maybe it did. Oh, no. Oh, I really liked this episode. Okay, first, let's just tell the people. We watch Season 8, Episode 10, Lists, Plans.

Air date of November 20th, 2010. Synopsis reads, In order to get an agent's license, Nathan returns to college. Boy, does he ever. Haley sets up a concert at Trick featuring Kid Cuddy, appearing as himself. Julian helps Brooke complete her bucket list. She has made before losing her company.

Alex and Mia start a friendly competition as they take over the bar at Trick. Meanwhile, Quinn sneaks out of town to visit a fun, familiar face. It was directed and written. No, no, it was written by Johnny Richardson and it was directed. Okay, Sof, you balked when Joy said this episode was great, so laid on us. I did because I felt like this episode kept giving me whiplash. There were things about it that were so great.

I loved the teaser and the wedding nightmare. I loved, I thought, I actually thought all of Brooke and Julian stuff was so freaking sweet, gangbusters. Just so good. And I loved all of your stuff, Joy, in the way that everybody's sort of taking charge at Trick a bit and at the record label and Alex and Mia are becoming friends. And then I felt like I was in a completely different universe every time we cut to the Quinn and Dan stuff. Yeah. And I was like, yeah, what is happening? And also, kudos to Paul and Chantel for being such good sports with the most absurd dialogue I've ever heard two people have to give each other.

And I was like, how in one episode can our show be nailing it and then also be embarrassing? And I couldn't, I couldn't make sense of it. Yes, I agree. We watched two talented actors do their feelings. very best. Do the Lord's work with some highly questionable dialogue and material in general? First of all, it just didn't make any sense. Okay, it didn't make sense for a lot of reasons. One, is Dan the only person who works at this diner that has never had a customer ever? Right. No other customers, no other people. It's also, the lighting is like it's nighttime always in this diner.

The reason you have no customers is because it's lit. like people go there to kill other people. Yes. Hard spotlights on them. I don't know why they're constantly moving around the diner. I got to a scene finally, however many scenes in, I was like, is it night three? Have they spent three days in the diner together? Like, it's been daytime, it's been nighttime, it's been daytime, now it's nighttime.

It was so, it pulled me out of the episode so much. And I'm so glad we're seeing Dan, and I get the device. and I totally get the, you're the only person I know that's ever murdered anyone. But we're going to believe that this woman who's been shot and traumatized

feels safe alone in the dark with a murderer. Like, what? None of it makes any sense to me. And they did great with what they had. And I didn't get it. Also, Dan go, at one point,

Dan says, you know, is this, is this the life you want, having to live away from everyone being isolated. It's like, sir, you had a nationally broadcasted TV show that was wildly successful that you chose to walk away from. Like, you are not an outcast. You just chose to be a hermit for some reason. Also, the last time we saw him, he was on some altruistic, you know, philanthropic stuff. He was like, I'm giving it all away and I'm going to help the world. It's like, what happened on your journey that you decided, I think I'd rather be bitter at a greasy spoon diner that no one ever goes to?

Okay. Hold on. Agreed. I can see all of that. I feel all of that. Okay, as far as Quinn feeling safe for the murderer, I totally get that. However, I think, for me, I was like, okay, she's trying to prove to herself that she's tough and strong and she can handle anything, which, I can relate too.

I think a lot of women can relate to that after you've been through something traumatic. You want to put yourself in another situation that feels difficult to prove in some way to yourself that you can handle it if you felt like you were taking advantage of before. So I buy that. The lighting in the diner was ridiculous, of course.

And it always felt like we were watching a different scene. But for me, Quinn's dialogue felt honest to her. Dan's dialogue felt completely correct in the sense that he's trying to convince her not to go kill someone. That's all he's doing. From the second she walks in and tells him she wants to murder someone, all of the things that he's doing is he's just trying to make it worse, sound worse and worse and worse. Sure. So you're not going to end up killing anybody. So I don't know that he's like bitter and angry and working at the diner.

I think he's playing the part of the guy that she wants him to play. So it was much more interesting to me than that because I was watching Dan do his manipulative Dan thing, but having fun with it. I wish they'd showed us that. But didn't he? Didn't Paul show it to you? Like as an actor? Sure. Well, here's what I'm going to say.

Paul, I absolutely understood that he was trying to push her till she broke and decided she didn't want to do what he had done. Yeah. But the way they directed it and the way they wrote it and the way they did his hair and the way everything about it didn't feel. Sure, he looked like a hot convict. But like, again, he was the star of a television.

He was Dr. Phil and now he's this guy. Like, what? it they they put it in a scenario where it felt so ridiculous that I didn't get to see Dan look around at his life and then make some choices it felt like a hat on a hat and I think they had to act their way out of it but I don't think the choices made around it made any sense and I think you as we do you love Paul and you love Dan Scott and so it's like well I see what they were, but I just, I don't know. I thought the episode was very well directed except for this stuff.

And so I didn't understand it. I also feel like, yeah, well, it's he, he kind of, Dan was getting the guest star treatment where they can just go away. Yeah. And we don't have to explain anything about what they've been up to. We just bring them back doing something else. And he's too big of a character for that. So that I agree with, right? But I got to say, as we're talking about this, I'm realizing,

because I'm with you, Joy, I don't, I didn't really bump on the dialogue because I knew what Dan was up to. I didn't bump on Quinn being there because this is, these are like extraordinary circumstances. Yeah. So she, she is not acting in her, she's not in her comfort zone. She's not in her right mind. I honestly think it's, it was an issue of aesthetics. It was that this, it was an empty diner. And then it was like one swinging bowl.

Yeah. It's lit like a Dick Tracy movie. And I'm like, why? You have two great actors and a great storyline. If they had done it in a populated diner or a diner where people are coming in and out, it's regular daylight. It doesn't look like an episode of trouble. And it's like it feels much more like they're having a private, quiet conversation. The waitress keeps coming and interrupting them. He's taking a time off, a break off the stove or whatever, flipping burgers. He's on his break. They're talking in the corner. That feels much more dangerous, actually. actually, to have a conversation like that in an open environment, that would feel much more appropriate, much, and I think everything else could have stayed the same in terms of what was on

the page, but the choice was a bit of a juvenile choice, I think, from a directing standpoint to make that the lighting and the setup look like that. And in that regard, it did really make it feel like two completely separate episodes, particularly because we start with this hoot-nanny wedding backyard wedding so it's like okay we already got the the kitsch of something we don't need more kitsch we need more authenticity yeah or he could have just gone to her hotel room you know like met her to have a type of private commerce it was just it felt like well we've got this set how do we mood it up and yeah it's it's weird by the way this episode of this podcast should be hot convict in a dick tracy movie just saying that's good john

Down producers. Well, then let's go back to the start and talk about the hoot nanny. We had so much fun filming this. I did. I don't know if you did. I need to know about it because I wasn't there for this. And to be honest, I had zero recollection that this even happened in the show. So I was wildly entertained.

It's great. Yeah. It was really fun. I had a ball. I mean, especially being pregnant in that whole scenario with the, like, the lawn chair and the rifle and the Twinkie cake and the flannel. and all of it was just, it was very... And the kid drinking beer and the whole. It was just ridiculous.

Yeah, it was so silly. A monster truck. Yeah. Oh, yeah. The monster truck hitting the Twinkie cake. Yes. Listen, there was so many hilarious, outrageous elements to that sequence. And you know what my favorite one was?

The hanging meats in the background above the altar. Yeah. Was such a good touch by either set deck or art department to remember and to put that in there in brook's nightmare is the hanging meat at the wedding at the altar so good yeah at the altar exactly just so fun and i and i remember you know even carol cut shawl doing such a great job because it's obviously supposed to be a reveal so we took the top of an actual wedding dress that had like a white sequin bodice and cut off the bottom and then she stitched this these layers of denim skirt with the short front and the long back so we could show the cowboy boots

and it would cut away from the veil and cut back and there'd be a cowboy hat over it and a whole thing. It was so much fun to build that world and they really leaned in. She was so, I mean, she is so creative, obviously. She's having a wonderful career right now. We really should do an episode about costumes and we just go through the sort of iconic costume moments in our show. need to bring in Carol. And I mean, whoever was there at the beginning, I think maybe Alfonso, I can't remember that Carol was with us for the longest. But that would be really fun to bring them in and do it.

We should also do a music one with Lindsay Wolfington because at least a dozen times we've said that and it would just be fun to have her on for an app and just pick her brain and hear stories. Yeah. Because she's going to get a nod in this episode as well with the Kid Cuddy. Yeah. Good Cuddy. Yeah, this was great.

So the backyard wedding, super fun, took us a day to shoot. Nathan and the Elmer Fudd hat just took the cake. Pardon the pun, I guess. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because, it does feel oddly, like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and

confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's talk about the cake, because I got to say, I'm not mad at the idea of a Twinkie Cake. I'm interested to learn more. Yeah. Doesn't it sound good? It kind of does. Is it a thing? I don't know if it's a thing, but it should be. It feels like it could be the, like a cake at the brunch the morning after, like a fun

little, if you had a little barbecue brunch the next day or something. Or like a cake you make for yourself when you're going through a really bad breakup. Just a sad cake, soaks up your tears, it's easy to eat. Somebody on Etsy is making Twinkie cakes Probably It's also a good thing I mean and they do it in the sequence But it's so pluckable

Yes Kind of a perk Maybe we're on to something guys From the people that brought you corn dogs Comes the Twinkie cake Not no It was also nice to do something I think so

Out of the ordinary Because everyone got to be ridiculous Jamie coming out of the port-a-no, out of the potty with the pig. Oh my God. And a beer. And especially Haley and Nathan are in such a good adult place. And it was fun to watch you and James go nuts. Yeah. Like the hooting and hollering and being ridiculous. It gave you space to be so silly. And, you know, you're in these big professional sort of moments where everyone's grown up in and fun, but more serious, more mature.

And to see you both be, you know, wild and crazy, it was really a good time. Rob, why weren't you at the wedding? I don't understand why you weren't in this. Like, Chantelle was there. Apparently, you know, Clay was not worthy of being in Brooks' nightmare. Maybe she just thinks he's such a great guy that he wouldn't participate in that.

That's what it is. Also, the choice to have sweet, sweet, sweet Stephen Coletti just in a dingy in the middle. of that pond on his own was so funny and perfect. I had to rewind it to go, was that Stephen? It was so random. That was a fun day. He was great this episode.

His stuff was fun. I'm glad he's more involved this season. Me too. I loved it. I'm really, I continue to show up more and more for Chase, whatever he's involved in. I'm like, I want to see what's happening. What is it? I also love his little aside with you when the girls are really vibing.

And he's just like, what? He's like, you did this. to me yeah it's so great okay so brook and julian this was my favorite part of the whole episode this was a there was a lot of you had a lot of like uh sarah jessica parker energy like was very sex in the city sort of vibe with this storyline um that's what struck me anyway but i just had so much fun watching watching austin watching austin watching Austin played Julian, he was having a ball. Like he was lit up all the time at every little thing he was doing for you. And to see Brooke just receiving it all and enjoying it all and being loved

on, you should wear red lipstick more often. Your mouth looks like a pretty heart when you wear red lipstick. It was so pretty. Learning French, the skydiving. I mean, you have so much to tell us about all the adventures that you guys went on in this episode. But I just really, really loved the storyline, the whole rom-com of it. I needed in my life. It was really fun, just to do something adorable. And, you know, we've talked about this. All of our characters go through these sort of trials and tribulations.

It's a drama. And there's these seasons of sort of sadness or struggle, whatever. And it's just so nice to see these two have a good time. Yeah. And I love that, you know, he figures out a way to, bring some levity and some joy and some romance into her life when she is grieving this loss and also trying to really trying to be in that place of I'm sad about this and I can't do the things I thought I would and my life isn't going to be what I thought it was. And he's like,

says who. Yeah. We can do things. We can have a nice time. And it's just so, it's so sweet. And so refreshing. And I love seeing her, you know, try to figure something out for the wedding and it's not going to work. And she's trying to stay positive and gets in the car. And then it starts, you know, the French lesson starts. It's like everything is just so, the gestures aren't even that big. I mean, obviously, the skydiving is. But it's, it's all these little things that are just so genuinely kind and loving. It just shows he cares. It's also so funny that, there are these attempts that we've talked about so often to emasculate Julian or make him look silly. And then he's given material like this.

And it's just, it really shows, it kind of shines light on just how immature the attempt at emasculation is because it's things that like women don't care if a guy is good at high fiving or if he knows how to camp. It's like what they are giving him is like he's a great partner. He listens. He shows up. He's there. He's a teammate. And so it's so funny that like the attempts to make him look silly are so overshadowed by episodes like this where it's like, this dude is so grounded in himself and just so present and loving and awesome. Like this is the ideal teammate.

Yeah. So to do anything like he doesn't know how to high five. It's like BFD what? What cares? Who? What? Yeah. This is the Julian that we.

hoped for it feels like such a great payoff after the journey that they've been through after breaking up and all of the drama with Alex to see him growing and coming into fruition of the man that he wants to be in the partner that he wants to be in the partner that Brooke needs and wants it feels like a great payoff and the other great payoff is having watched Brooke hustle for so so so long and gaining so much I mean she she ran a multi-million dollar companies she's on top of the world she has everything that people think they want and to to see her through all that time there was so much drama and struggle and it's so perfect that now that all the money is gone and she really has no other choice but to discover

the magic of ordinary days and to discover the little things in life to see her so light and happy and enjoying the sucking the marrow out of just daily life it's it's such a great over like a huge long seasons by seasons arc that feels like a great payoff that we're that we're getting to walk into with her i'm really happy they did this there's also a great kind of blinking you miss it line in that first scene i think with brook and julian where julian's just says something to the effect. I think Brooke says, like, aren't you worried about our moms becoming friends? And he's like, I'm just glad it got her out of the house. And one of you says, like, yeah, they're having like a girl's trip to New York. And I just thought, dude, that is this spin-off episode we

desperately needed. Sylvia? Could you imagine Sylvia and Victoria do Manhattan? Just an episode of the two of them? I want that. I really would want Barbara to show up at some point as well. Yes. I don't know how, but the three of them. That's the trifecta. Yeah. Someone's getting arrested. That's a fact. If Barbara's there, 100%.

If Anteb's in the mix, yeah. That feels right. And to your point, Rob, the way that Austin leans into this stuff is so sweet. Like, these lines wind up being so funny, him being like, motorcycle is a state of mind. And then, you know, in the plane, they do it again. And it's actually just so funny. She's freaking out about skydiving. They make that, you know, second best 45 seconds of your life joke.

But like, it works because he's in on the joke. And then he's quoting hitch. And it's like, it's all so silly and so much fun. And it is sweet to just see them have a good time together. And he owns his uncool. That's the thing. Because Austin leans in and commits so hard earnestly, the payoff on that joke is that he's not like, oh, no, it's, I thought. He's just like, it's a great movie when you're like, are you really quoting Hitch?

Brooke has that great land where she's like, we're 15,000 feet in the air and a quarter of the plane is missing. Did you just quote Hitch? You know, and he doesn't like balk. He goes, yeah. Yeah, it's a great, yes, it's a great movie. It's like, that's Julian, man. He just owns it. Had you guys been skydiving before?

Yeah, I had been a bunch. So I think, I don't know if that's why it wound up on the list. Had Austin been before? Um, I feel like probably I don't remember, but I feel like he would have been, what was weird to me, the whole thing was so spot on. And then what was weird to me is that, you know, the stunt folks who did this jumped out of the plane, because obviously they weren't going to really let us jump out of a plane. That's an insurance nightmare. But you've gone so many times in your life, so it seemed like, okay, maybe they'll just. Yeah, no, they would not have. insurance for the show would never have allowed that. But what was so weird to me is that

you know, whoever did those shots on second unit the skydivers jumped solo. I'm like, nobody's allowed to jump solo their first time skydiving.

Oh yeah, the two of them in tandem. Like you two... No, we both would have to be tandem jumping with an instructor. Like we would be strapped to instructors. Right. We would never have been allowed

to jump out of the plane on our own. Yeah. The first time, I was like, well, that sort of took me out of it. When I went, though, they gave us the option. They were like, you can do a 20-minute class and jump with an instructor, tandem, or you can do a four-hour class and jump by yourself. To which, of course, I'm like, are you fucking high? No, I want the person strapped to my back.

I do, no, I'm not that good of a student. But here's the deal. Brooke wouldn't have done that. No. You know what I mean? Brooke would have been like, no, strap the person to my back. I'm not going to be responsible for the. I might black out.

Yeah. So crazy. I thought the whole thing was so sweet. I was like, whatever, give it the license. But it was a moment where I was thinking, yeah, fucking right. She's screaming about how she's terrified. And then it's like, all right, psych and dives out. Like, come on.

At least your jumpsuits were cute. Yeah, it was very, very cute. The whole thing was super sweet. I do remember, and I can't remember what it was that we had to go and do once we finished that. You know, we did the whole skydiving sequence, and then we had to move on to more of their adventure day. And I remember when we took the goggles off, the indents in our faces were so bad. I had to, like, ice roll my face on the way to the next set. And we just had, it was like something we hadn't thought about.

Did they send you up in a plane for this, or was any of this? done like on a on stage it looked like it was all done on the ground right yeah all on the ground yeah wow i bought it i know right totally bought it yeah it really worked it was really sweet so yeah all of the julina brook stuff i thought was just was perfect the one thing though and again so much of it is so good and then there are these choices in this episode that go sideways why was the moon so big come on the moon dude it looked like the truman show i thought the I thought for sure they were going to be on like a soundstage or something. I thought it was a gimmick.

He had found some way of making a scene for them with the moon. Yeah. That moon was out of control. It was distractingly big. Yeah. Also, what's odd is that they chose to shoot the scene of Quinn throwing the gun off the same. Let's be honest, it was the same period, but even on the show it looks identical.

And one of the shots up at her from the water, you can actually. see the moon in the sky behind her and it is a totally normal sized moon. Yes. We paid extra for that big moon. That was CGI. Why? I don't know and I don't know why take the moon and just make it 10% bigger in CGI. Don't make it a thousand percent bigger. They're like enhance, enhance, enhance, enhance, enhance, enhance. Enhance. Stop. Please. Please stop. No, we're in a Disney movie now. It was so silly. Yeah. I still loved all of it. I loved that I did too. I did too. I think what worked, yes, there was a moment you roll your eyes. You're like, oh my gosh, okay.

But I think it was because there were so many other things in the episode that felt heightened that there was a bit of a fairy tale element about the whole episode that kind of worked for me, all of the slight absurdities. I just. I just bought into it. Maybe I'm just in a good, good mood this morning and wanted to. I don't know. Who knows? Yeah, listen, it's not a deal breaker, but I'm with you. So the moment we opened on that shot, I was like immediately pulled out of it going, what is, okay, they've got to be on a stage. Like, I was, you guys were so good that you didn't even need a moon in the shot.

Like, we didn't need any extra romance to like, jizz it up. But it was, yeah, it was just like, it was so, it was so aggressive. aggressive that's exactly right the aggressive moon i was just going to say maybe to your point join maybe they were like well we've gone really extreme with the murder plot so maybe we should just drama up a few of the other ones like i don't know if the idea was let's heighten because you don't remember that on the day it wasn't like you guys were standing there and there was this giant moon projected or something no no we were really out on the pier at night and the moon here's the thing the moon was out because there was reflection on the water and it it just felt

like somebody was like let's take that normal little dot and and put it was like they replaced this behind me with this like this was real and then they put this in the shop for reference friends she's pointing to what is that little a microphone like sticker i don't know what that is this is like a little glass evil eye that i got traveling years ago and this is a globe of the world They're next to each other, so you can imagine the size difference. But maybe they got like indie film with it, and they were like, but it's just Brooke is in such like a romantic fantasy bubble right now that maybe it was just she was feeling this moment and the moon felt that big too.

Yeah. And maybe the same thing for Quinn. The diner just felt really creepy and overlit. Oh my gosh. She felt like she was in a film noir. This episode should have won an Emmy. Hey. It's so...

I like that... Yeah, the Brooke and Julian on the pier. It's their E.T. moment. The moon just takes up the whole thing. I loved a line that had nothing to do with the episode that made me laugh out loud was the whole Jamie and Nathan runner of them being study buddies.

His whole thing this season of just like coming into himself. I'm thrilled with this storyline for him. And like being a dad and loving being a dad has been so great. And so the whole study buddy thing with the two of them was awesome. But when at the very start of it, he's like, let's play some Madden. And Nathan goes, I can't. I got to study. Where's Chuck?

And he says, Chuck got grounded for using his name in the banana ram of Fofanta song. And you see Nathan take a beat to sing the song to himself and then go. To do it. Yeah. And didn't you do it too? I absolutely did it. We all did it. Oh, yeah.

Immediately. My brain was like, I'm in the writer's room and I'm imagining they're trying to come up with a reason for Chuck to be grounded and somebody, somebody's kid had just done that at home and said it out loud. It's great. That was really funny. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia. and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer

because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story,

along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I like that in the edit they exactly timed the reaction for Nathan correctly so that all of us got to go, like everybody did it together and it was great. That was fun.

Yeah, I love the storyline for Nathan. I mean, wow. Like just finding his own way, figuring out, taking these risks and to see that Nathan choose to take the hard class. You know there was a time when there was a version of Nathan when he would have been like, where do I coast? And it's so great. Also, it's the appearance of Kellerman, Peter Rigert. He's great. He's awesome.

And I believe he played a college professor in Animal House. So I know that there was excitement because they were like, like he was so known for that role that they're like, we got him as our college professor. But he's great. Yeah. Just really good, man. That first scene with him in Nathan in the office is awesome. Yeah, and the fact that you can tell he's going to be a curmudgeon, but Nathan feels up to it and they're kind of sizing each other up.

It doesn't lean into conflict too fast, but it gives you a little taste. And the whole storyline for Nathan, you know, like you were saying, Joy, is so good because we get to see him maturing and trying to make all of these choices and what's cool about it is we get to watch it but we also get to see him talk about it in ways that don't feel so much like exposition

because there are lessons for Jamie. The story about how they lost to Kansas by three but they were supposed to lose by 27 but they worked so hard and they practiced so hard and it taught him something. about being determined, it's such a good way to show growth in a character without being like, and you know what I've learned about my life, you know?

Yeah. Yes, which we fall into that trap a lot, which I think is inevitable, especially on a show with this many seasons, it's easy to fall into the trap of like, just explain it in dialogue and have people just say the thing so everybody can catch up if they missed it. And I love it when they just take the little extra time to do things like that. and make it feel natural. That's good. It's effective. It's like Haley writing to Lucas. You know, it's a great device for getting inside her head without actually having her, yeah,

sit there and do the talking head exposition that everyone dreads doing. Totally. And the whole, um, the whole little container of this evening of studying with a dad and his son is just so sweet because you get to see how. serious it is, but the kid helps to make it lighthearted and the games and the, you know, the spelling drills and the whole thing. It's just, it's a really nice peak into their world. It's just so relatable, like this, this family dynamic, the three of them, even at the end, Jamie with the T-U-T-O-R, and Nate goes there's an O and Tudor. You know, yes. Yes. Oh, God. Did you learn nothing?

He has that line where he says to Nathan, wow, first Tudor girl, now Tudor's son. Yeah. Aw. That's nice. And there's a great exchange where I think it's like after like the first time that they talk about the studying, Nathan looks at him and goes, how did you get so smart? And he turns around and says, I have my mom's jeans too. And without skipping a beat, Nathan goes, you also got her height. Yeah.

It's like, oh. Ouch. Okay, dad. apparently we touched a nerve. It just goes to show the thing that our show became famous for in the first place, which was the small town, again, the sort of magic of ordinary days, how valuable that really is. Like we can have a lot of drama. We can have big, exciting, bizarre, strange, very dramatic things happen.

But the core and the heart of the show is just the ordinary and the things that you can relate to as a family, as a member of a family in your real life and just watching the little nuances here. I loved it. It warmed my heart. The whole red bedroom trick stuff was great. And I loved how it all started. I mean, it was great that Mia was the one who got Kid Cutty. Yeah.

And then I loved Haley tricking Mia into wanting to bartend by getting Alex to bartend. So good. It was fun watching you play kind of the mastermind behind the scenes for this whole night. Yeah. It was fun. I loved this. I like Haley being in this spot. I mean, Hayley's always done a lot of mother Henning, like moving around between different characters and different storylines and just like putting in little bits and pieces of information here and there and helping everybody, you know, like maintain the status quo. I feel like

she took her role as mom, becoming a mother early, just became a part of her identity. And so she's always been this. So it's really fun to see her do it at Red bedroom, too, that it's not just for the people that are the closest in her life, but also the people that she's, that she's working with in her job. And she wants to see young women in their careers taking off and really mentoring them and like just managing everything. She's, she's stepping into this, she's stepping into the Karen Rowe role, really, in a lot of ways. And that's been, that's been fun to see. I also loved how she didn't tell Erin that she was going to be open to the Kid Cuddy, which was real risky, right?

That kind of surprised me because I imagine as a musician, like, you know, you have to want to prepare yourself. But I love the choice that they made that she didn't do the thing you thought she was going to do, which is, oh, I'm so nervous. I can't do this. Instead, she immediately went to a place of, I'm going to kill it. I was like, oh. And she did. I mean, Laura Isabor not out of the park. I mean, we had heard a little bit from her before, but she really let loose and showed everybody.

what she's made of in this episode. It was great. I was hoping when Kid Cutty came up at the end that he was going to be like, come on tour with us. Because again, there were so many things that were a bit outrageous in the episode that I just would have bought it. I mean, I know it's a little hokey and expected, but I don't know. I was kind of, I was hoping he was going to be like, you were so great. You should come open for us on the road. And when he didn't, he was just like, keep going. You're doing great. I was like, oh. I thought he was going to try to poach her. I thought he was going to say, you're talented.

You should join our label. Ooh, that would have been juicy. But instead he was just a nice guy, wamp-waw. Yeah. One of the things that was weird to me, again, just some of the choices, but maybe the whole point was they needed to heighten everything in the episode, they crush that show. Laura is so good. He is so good. Also, baby Kid Cutty, I die. Like just the cutest human being. But I was like, why at the end when he comes to talk to her? Does she have full backing in an empty bar? It's just her at the piano. And it's a fully produced song playing. Oh, that's right. Wait, I guess I thought she was just playing to a crowd and I was not. No, she's just playing in the back of the bar, but over a full backing track. And I was like, we know how good Laura is. Let her

just sing with the piano. I was getting set up for the podcast at this point. It was like, you know, 45-7 left in the episode. You were like, oh, shit, I got to plug in my computer. Yeah. Yeah. But it was a really, it took me out of it because I was like, it's just her by herself. Why? Never mind. And then I was like, I got to stop. I was just, I was then, by then I was noticing all the weird things. Yeah. It felt like another enhance, enhance, enhance, we didn't need it. I think the attempt was to make everything feel, yeah, like that fairy taleish kind of a little bit exaggerated. And it doesn't always work when you try and do something like that with episodic because you still have to stick to the rules of the world because the show

still has to look familiar for the audience because they can't show up and turn on the TV and see all their favorite actors in the same setting, but the show looks completely different. So I think this was an attempt to stay within the rules and the boundaries, but make it feel more like a fairy tale, but just wasn't, I just don't, I understand why it felt like it wasn't executed as efficiently as it could have been. Did either of you perk up when there's the exchange at the bar between me and Alex, where Alex walks over to me and goes, I'm up to 450 replies? and over her shoulder, Mia says,

I'm right on your heels, drama queen. Yes. I was like, what? I did the same thing. Yeah, what about Alex and Chase and this thing in the stock room? They could only let them be friends for all of 12 minutes

before Alex had to undermine it all before she had to be duplicitous. Yeah. I mean, she continues to prove that this is like this. feels like the baseline of her when i say character i mean like uh what's another word for like your character as a as a human like your integrity baseline yeah her her core yeah it just feels like no matter how many times she seems like she's really sweet and just trying to be uh nice i don't

know i just don't trust her at this point she's done it too many times completely she is wildly untrustworthy. That said, Janet is so good in that scene that I did find myself going, oh shit, she might actually just really like him. Oh, no. Because it does look like she's playing a game.

It looks like all of this is a game to her at this point, because we have seen so much of this back and forth stuff. But she's so good, and the look she gives him is so sincere that it's so strong because then it makes it actually challenging for Chase, as opposed to being it's being very easy to go get off what go away yeah you know uh so she did great with it

but same i was like come on yeah she's all over the place but they're so fun together and the crowd it trick is the whole thing is just fun to watch and so as a choice as dramatic as it is it's great because it kind of stops you in your tracks in the audience and you're like uh-oh And we know it's coming because when she throws that bottle of tequila in the trash, you're like, oh, no. Oh, no. And I loved it. I was like, this is the kind of drama that I want. Speaking of breaking off from the norm of our show, let's talk about that final scene.

Katie is driving back to Tree Hill listening to a perfect song. Never going to give you up. It's all great. All of it is working for me until the. last moment where she turns and stops looking at the road and just looks down the camera, looks straight into the lens. What is that? Why?

It's already so ominous. Nothing needs to happen. And then she breaks the fourth wall. Like we're in the office? It was just, it was so strange. I didn't get it. And by the way, she's not the only one who does it. They also directed Kid Cuddy in the concert to take his sunglasses.

off and look straight in the lens. And I'm like, it's not a music video. Yes, he's playing himself, but he's also acting on our show. He's not supposed to break the fourth wall. It's not a music video shoot. So it's a choice that was made by the director twice in the episode, and it was so weird. Yeah, he's playing himself, but in the One Tree Hill universe. There aren't cameras recording the other people.

You know what I mean? And it's not like Julian had a camera behind the scenes or there was some justification for it. Yeah, if Julian was shooting it and then he looked into camera and it cut to a great close-up, it would have worked. But it pulled me out of it then. And then the ominousness of Katie and the storm and, you know, there's a giant storm brewing. Things are going to get crazy. No, the audience already knows. Yeah, we already know this is going to.

It's going to get real very soon. The second you see Katie and see her singing, which also, I think, went on a little long. Like, it was just a little too long. I didn't need that much of her singing along with the song because it gave me time then to start listening to her singing rather than listening to, like, just catching the moment of like, this is creepy. I was like, oh, it's creepy. And then I was like, oh, she has a great voice. And then I was like, wait a second.

What's the guy on the radio saying? Like, it just, it was too long. Yeah, it's too much. You can't give the audience that much time to start thinking about what's happening. Otherwise, they start doing exactly what we're doing and picking it apart. And Amanda's great. Like, you didn't need the rain and you didn't need the song, but it's fine to have them. But it's sort of like you have her giving a great performance.

I'm already concerned. And then we see you driving past a tree hill sign. That's really all you need. Yeah. The rain, cool, mood. The song, heavy-handed, but still works. The extra 15 seconds followed by her looking down the camera. too much didn't need it we didn't need it we did you just didn't need it but I think that what I'm

really excited about um is the fact that she's back and that in fact it justified so much of what we just watched with uh Paul and Chantelle because all of Quinn's fears that it feels so ridiculous and it's like Katie's gone okay you found her but she's not pursuing you there's just you know can you try and let it go and live your life um It really gave justification to this whole thing that we have been maybe questioning Quinn's motive or sanity is not the right word, but we've been questioning what she's choosing to do. And now I'm like, oh, no, there's no question. You need to be prepared. Oh, except she threw away the gun.

Oh, no. Yeah. Yes. You know. Yeah. But that's just it, right? the worry and the fear and the the sort of trauma she's experiencing

is so spot on. I wish they'd just let it be that and didn't try to make it feel like a film noir so that when you see Katie, you're like, oh my God. Based on how dramatically they shot all of that stuff for her and Dan's storyline, I'm not surprised at all. that Katie's back, not even a little. Like, surprise me.

Yeah, yeah. The throwing away of the gun, that sequence, the way they wrapped up was great, though, because I know as an audience member, I was rooting for her to get rid of the gun. I was like, this has never been the answer. And when you finally see her getting rid of the gun, you're like, oh, thank God. Okay, good. And then they immediately follow it with danger driving into town. And you're like, shh, okay, we shouldn't have done that.

I was rooting for the wrong thing. Yeah. Oh, lots, lots in this episode. I'm looking forward to seeing what happens. Things are going to get crazy. Now we know, yeah, it's going to get real weird. Anything else about this episode before we do questions, fan questions? Outside animals can't fart inside.

Yes. Honorable mention for sure. It may look different, but Native culture is very. alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast,

Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Listener question. What do we got? Katie says, I wish we could have seen Haley reading a letter from Lucas just to hear what was going on in their lives. We don't hear from Lucas until the last season.

What would you all imagine Lucas, Peyton, and Sawyer are up to? I don't even remember where they moved. Where did they go? I don't know. They left Tree Hill and, you know, riding off in the sunset in the comet, but I don't know why they left or where they moved. Did Lucas get a, because he can write from anywhere. Yeah. They left in a convertible, so I'm going to guess maybe the West Coast where it's a bit warmer and less rainy. Yeah.

Feels like that's true. Yeah. I feel like I remember a West Coast thing or that, you know, they wanted to travel and while he wrote his next novel. This is a problem. They didn't give us enough to make where our friends went make sense. Yeah. Yeah, I have no idea. Who knows?

Like, did they start a new life in Maine or in Napa or like, did they, are they renting a trailer just driving around the country? Did they move to Europe? Yeah, it's weird. Where are they? And it's like, you know, and I know we brought this up, obviously, with the powers that be at the time. And I feel like it was more a personal beef than anything that made sense for our characters, which is unfortunate. But I used to ask and be like, why can't Brooke be getting text messages from Peyton? why can't you see them texting like why am I not getting photo updates of this baby yeah it feels

really weird and there was always a you know well it's not important it's not in the world and it's like well it feels pretty freaking important to Brooke and Haley built around it so it's kind of important yeah it's like for us you know those are our those are our people yeah like Peyton's my person Lucas is Haley's person it's like so weird yeah and Karen like everybody just They just faded off into the distance. Yeah, I do wish they had kept that up in some more clear way. I don't think it would have been hard. No.

I don't either. I think it was some sort of personal, I think it was the personal beef behind the scenes that they just like, not they. But he, our creator, just didn't want to have. He was hoping the audience would just forget about them. Which seems so stupid. Yeah. it's a choice rooted in ego and it's like dude you wrote those characters yeah so you knew they were great so why are we suddenly pretending they're not yeah it's like a trend to prove like

the show can go on without them and and it did but like it could have made so much more sense it would have been so much more nice to just have their presence still around in some way yeah it would have been a better continuation of that world, particularly because we were, I mean, what a crazy thing to say, but in the middle of our show is when people got iPhones. It became really easy to text photos and videos and to have these long updates with your friends that you couldn't have before when you were texting in T9 on a razor being like, one, a two, a three, there's a T, you know? And like, it would have fit the time

and it would have fit our world and our people and anyway you're right Katie we agree it would have been nice we wish too we wish

should we spin a wheel honorable mention honorable mention goes to only animals can't fart outside or something like that outside outside animals can't fart inside

sign me out there it is joy immediately most likely to get locked out of their own house yep Yeah. Yeah. That's definitely happened to me. For sure. Have you guys never gotten locked out of your house? I had to call a locksmith? I have.

I got locked out of my house on location once, filming. And it was not great. And it was also really stressful because it was in the middle of winter in Toronto. And the place I was renting had like a smart lock. and I'd never had one and ever since I'd moved into the house like when I would undo the lock it would flash yellow at me and I just thought that was the way they I don't know that's how it unlocks and it meant the battery was dying and so for I don't know six weeks I just would like walk into this rental house and one night at like 1230 I guess technically 1230 in the morning I got home and it it was February and it was like negative 20 degrees and I clicked the thing and it starts flashing red and I just everything it's like all the energy left my body and I was like oh no tell me transpo van hadn't left you yet he sure had I was like get out of here I got to like you know I was unloading shit and dealing with the snow on the porch so I had to call the sweet driver and be like could you could you come around the block I think I have a little a wee bit of an

emergency and I literally had to I had to figure out how to break into my own house with my awesome transpo driver because there was not we couldn't get a single locksmith company to answer the phone because it was almost one in the morning. Is it cheaper to locksmiths are not cheap. Is it cheaper to replace a window or call locksmith? It's easier to call locksmith. I don't know the relative pricing. Well, yes, because to think about it, to replace a window, you have to call someone. They have to come out and do it, whereas at least a locksmith. And measure the glass and fix the thing. Your entire thing is contained within, you know, 30 minutes of them being there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It turned into like quite a comedic evening and involved scaling a

balcony. And we had a great time at the end of it. And I was like, this is going to be a story I'm always going to remember. Why didn't we ever do that on the show? That would have been a fun episode. Like just something that was in the house that somebody had to get for other things in the episode to rely on. And the whole episode for that character storyline is just trying to figure out. different ways to break into the house. That would have been great. You know how janitors have those little devices that they clip onto their belt or anyone with lots of keys where it's like a tether and it like pulls back in all the keys?

I feel like, Joy, we should get you like three of those, like one for your iPhone, one for your AirPods, one for your keys. You just have this like utility belt as you walk around in public so that you can never lose anything. I think that's something that I should invest in. Yeah. It's not a bad idea. Guys, we're taking this to Shark Tank.

We're doing it. We're doing it. Thanks for knowing me so well, Rob. That's really sweet. You're perfect. Joy, don't change. Don't ever change. Never, ever forget to lose your Keith.

Okay. What are we doing next week? All right, friends, we, I can't believe it. Next week is season eight, episode 11, darkness on the edge of town. Oh, boy. I wonder if that has anything to do with Katie. I wonder. It's very direct.

Thanks for joining us, everyone. This was a fun one. Good to see you. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queen's at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Trauma girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion, but you'll tell you. girl, you could sit with us, girl.

Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.