Drama Queens - Drama Daddies • EP 807

Episode Date: February 17, 2025

Rob is joined by some of the founding fathers from One Tree Hill, Lee Norris & Antwon Tanner and the trio digs into juicy drama, from Chase’s ill-advised kiss, to the hilarious Mannequin puns, and their take on Julian’s lonely poker night!   Plus, Rob finally gets Lee and Antwon's thoughts on the Ms. Lauren love triangle with their characters. See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Hey, what's up, everybody? We have a very special episode for you today. And it's not just because I found out

who's been catfishing me all this time. No, today we are joined by not one, but two of the founding fathers of One Tree Hill. Today, we are lucky enough to have with us one Lee Michael Norris and Sir Antoine Tanner. Welcome, gentlemen. Yes, sir. Hey, buddy.

Hey, Twine. What's up, guys? And I can't call it. If I had your hand out, I'd throw mine in, like, at the poker gun. Today, we do not have Sof and Joy, as they are no doubt out making the world a better and brighter place. So this is a bit of a boys' night in, which is rather apropos, given the episode we watched. Yeah, I just realized this is like, I mean, I'm sad not to see the girls. And it's kind of like Boytree Hill, but it's also like drama dads.

Drama daddies, we can't say that. Let's never call ourselves that. Yeah. It's great. I do wish Sof and Joy were here because they were so freaking funny in this episode. Of course. Dude, okay, well, before we get into it, let me just let the audience know where we're at. We watched season 8, episode 7, Luck Be a Lady. It aired November 2nd, 2010, and the summary reads, as the wedding approaches, Brooke tries to connect with Sylvia, while Julian looks for his best man at a guy's poker night.

Meanwhile, Nathan struggles in his new job, while Haley's counseling abilities are challenged, and Skills returns to town with a new friend. It was directed by Les Butler and written by the incomparable David Strauss and Mike Harrow. That would explain the funny. Yes, for sure. I was going to say, every time we got a script with their names on the cover, I was always excited because, you know, we always did the drama well, but I feel like that energy and that comedy is kind of the unique balance that kind of, you know, helped us stand apart from some of the other shows. And they, those guys are the best. And everyone kills the comedy.

I don't know if it's just because there's so few opportunities for it. Yeah. Just proportionally, the show is much more sort of melodramatic and drama heavy. But man, everyone, when they get a moment to shine, I feel like all of it sings. Lee, you had some incredible stuff last episode where Julian comes over to record you and you, like, tell me more. I don't remember any of it. oh my gosh it's hilarious so it's when it's when mouth is struggling with just like he has nothing going on and julian's like i'll yeah lately yes he is and julian comes over and he's like

i'll record or i'll tape you for my uh documentary and you're like great give me a moment and you come out of your room with your hair slicked back like some wannabe 1980s wall street guy a suit that still has the tag on it and just oh yes yes douche energy possible like where you're on the phone. Chase is finally really had to dig deep. Really had to dig deep. Yes. Clearly a far departure from you. But it ends. The button of it is mouth going. He just like reaches into his pocket and then goes like, oops, in a roll of like 12 magnum condoms fall out. And he goes, oops, my magnums fell out. How'd that happen? Oh, my God. You guys, I have a six-year-old and it's going to be a long time before he can watch this show a long time. as you're reminding me of

of storylines that I've completely forgotten about. No, you're exactly right. And Twan, you always killed the comedy. Like, even if it wasn't there, you made comedy and found it, which was, you know, part of what makes you so great. But, yeah, buddy. And Rob, what did you think? Because this was still, like, you're still getting acclimated, right?

I mean, were you surprised to see kind of like a funnier? Did you know that we did that? Or did you think it was all drama coming in? No, I thought it was all drama. I thought it was pretty people staring out windows for 42 minutes. So anytime we got that, because the thing is there's, we have a really good writer room. So like there was something like this one, half of my notes for this episode are just quotes. Like so when we got the stuff, it was a treat because comedy is much more my preferred strike zone than drama.

And then you got to see everyone work. Oh, is it? Everyone was so good. You know what's funny? I didn't really realize until this episode. Tuan, when you do comedy, are you generally the straight man? Well, you know what?

It's just the show was so full of drama. And it was like, you know, I felt like I had to stand out. So it was like anytime we was on in scenes, I just did what felt right, what felt natural. You know what I'm saying? So it was like, and a lot of it ended up just being funny because I'm saying, I found the funny in it.

So I was like, but a lot of the comedy would always get cut. And we used to always make fun of that. We used to always be like, I'd be like, well, skills got a bunch of stuff. Guess it'll get cut because they want to cry because everybody wanted to cry. So it was like, okay, so I was always the guy that would, you know, and like I said, a lot of times I wasn't even, wouldn't even try to do it. It just would, it would just be happy because that was our personalities because we all, you know, we always hung out and like, you know, me and Lee, we didn't hang out so damn.

much you know what i'm saying like we'll go places and we'll be sitting back and it's like what people really wanted to say or what they was thinking i would just say it that's right yeah and i think i think rob's right twine you're just naturally funny so you don't even really have to try like the way that you just deliver stuff you can just deliver it straight but it's the look on your face and the dryness which you delivered is so just naturally funny that you don't whereas some of us were having to ham it up or do dances i won't yeah you won't name names Oh, actually, Rob, you were dancing in this episode, by the way. Well, no, I was talking, I was talking about me.

Normally, I was the one doing the crazy dances, but it was, it was you in this. How was that? Did you, I mean, you know, you were, you were killing it in a way. Listen, stupid dancing is also my wheelhouse. That's how I got my sad card. For a Ross commercial, they were, they said, can you dance so bad you make us laugh? And I was like, just, just turn the, turn the music on. And I just freestyled.

Ross commercial. I'm writing this down so I can Google it and watch it later Ross. Okay. But yeah, Tuan, you're great at letting the funny come to you and then just reacting to it as opposed to reaching for it.

And the whole Lucas doll thing well, first of all, it was so nice to have YouTube back together on the screen. And before we even get into that, because this became a real hot button issue for me on the show,

because like I basically am watching the show for the first time like when we wrapped I didn't rewatch it I kind of shut the door on it was like cool later so a lot of this I'm seeing with fresh eyes I thought the Miss Lauren storyline was so interesting and I was really lobbying hard for mouth and Miss Lauren to work out and I'm very and then obviously then things got a little crazy I'm so curious to know what you two thought of that storyline. Oh, I was like, well, damn, when I'm going to have my own girlfriend? Like, I was like, I just can't have my own girlfriend. It took me forever to get one. And then it was always something happening where my girl would just go away. So we was like, I was like right on

the cuss with like, because all the girlfriends that I had, all my storylines was was funny. It was like never romantic. Like, you know what I'm saying? These mouth had milly. And they was, you know, theirs was romantic like you know what I'm saying they could do things me and Lauren was kind of like we had our moments but it wasn't like consistent because I they just bounced me around I went from Bev and uh bevin to um to nanny Deb to you know what I'm saying and then to miss Lauren so it was like they just kept bouncing me around I never had like one where it was just kind of stuck and we had like a you know ongoing storyline you know what I'm So it was just like, with me, it was just like, well, we're just going to have fun.

Did you bump it all on when you do return to Tree Hill that, like, because here was my issue. Like, you just, and this has nothing to do with you. The way they wrote it was like, skills just basically dips without like including Miss Lauren. He's not checking in, but he's playing video games with mouth. And it's sort of, it's this like main character energy where like he left and he left and he's, came back and expected everyone to still like just be exactly as they were and like welcome him back so when you or excuse me when skills punch his mouth and he like the first time we see skills puts his arm around miss lauren's waist he's like how's my girl and i'm like what the

hell you've been gone for like three months without calling anyone yeah but it's bro it's brocode it's brocode you know that's just what it is it's like me i always tell my boys i'd be like listen If you ever told a girl that you loved her at any point in your life, that is cis for me, period. So I think that that's just brocode. That's just how they wrote it because that was what they were, you know, that's what they believed in. And that's what it was. But I mean, that's how I am anyway. Yeah.

I'll plead the fifth. I don't really remember the specifics of how they got together and all of that. This was the first time I'd watched it in a couple of years, Rob. but um i just i have to say like alice and mun shout out like the best the very best we had so much fun with her and her and her real life husband scott you know who came on the show too um so just getting to play with her like regardless of whatever the story was i know tuan and i both love that because there are people that come in as guest stars and it's a really hard as you know coming in later to the show it's hard to do that and she came in seamlessly and was so much fun like consummate

professional so easy there was no awkwardness or weirdness at all so to get to play with her for whatever reason was just the best she's yeah yeah yeah allie mom so i love ellie you're so right because now that i'm thinking about it i wonder how much of me lobbying yeah for mouth and miss lauren was actually just about wanting to see more of miss lauren yeah because the problem was when skills left town so did miss lawn absolutely for for the viewer's purposes at least like she disappeared. So I wonder if part of what was wrapped up and that was just, because like you said,

every time she came on the screen, I was like, awesome. She's great. Yeah. She's just solid. Yeah. And funny and all the emotion is there and made our jobs way easier.

So, yeah, anything that brought her back, I was always for her. Yeah. What did you having not watched these episodes in long time? What did you guys think of this app? I was cracking up.

Joy and self was so funny. I was cracking up. I was like they were hilarious at the damn wedding thing. Yeah. Yeah. They were hilarious. I was crack. I was like, damn, they are so good.

They were so funny, though. Yeah, I was nervous. I'll be honest, going into it. It's hard. It's hard to go back and watch yourself. And when you have some distance from it for a little while, there's always this fear, at least for me, that when you dip back into it, you're going to be like, oh, that's not how I remembered it.

And oh, God, why, you know, why am I doing this? So I was a little anxious about it, but once we got back into it, and at first I was a little, like, I couldn't quite place what was happening. But then when I kind of got back into it and I realized what was happening, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm in. And then we can get to this maybe at the end, but like once the CODA came, like, one tree hill does a CODA, like nobody's business. And, you know, for listeners at home, I'm sure they're savvy enough to know the

Cota's at the end of the episode with the big song. And, you know, but by the end, Andrea was watching it with me and we were on the couch and, like, at first, I would say when the episode started, we were like snacking and just like whatever. And then by the time the Coda came on, we were like, what, what, I was like, I don't remember what happens. Like, I got to keep going, you know? So it was great.

I loved it. And I love this episode, too, because we got to see, I think, pairings that didn't, or groups of people that didn't always get to play together. Like, Rob, I feel like we barely ever got to cross paths, you know, with you. Yeah, we didn't. We never did with them. They kept us, they kept us at the river court. Didn't we all do Tahoe together?

Yeah, or Park City. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's right. Yes. Yeah, yeah. Yes. And, you know, same with, I think we were always in couples a lot, right? And I love Lisa Goldstein. Like, I missed her in this desperately, but it was nice to be able to play with, you know,

a group of people who I didn't. always get to see it was so great to see junk and fergy back with everybody at the poker table and those one-liners between like jana and and uh junk where i was like oh my god this is yeah that was dope yeah i mean the alex dupre of it all she is dude she is like i've always said like she's so manic you know and there was the perfect Alex moment when julian yeah uh starts he puts her on camera. And she's, she's like, hi, I'm Alex Dupre. You might recognize me from tabloids rehab and internet porn. But I also do the occasional movie. And Julian's like, whoa, let's, let's just be serious. And she takes a beat and she goes, yeah, not long ago, I tried to unalive myself. And he's like,

whoa, whoa, whoa. So it's, it's this funny mix of her. It's like, it's either one far end of the extreme or it's all the way the other. Yeah, Jana was good. She was fun. And she's another one who's great at that comedy like again that she she can do the drama obviously the really really tumultuous storyline that she was referring to and play that so well but then come in and bring sort of a lot like sophia and the brook character kind of brings that energy um and god i love that and i was just reminded to you know an antoine you were talking about soph brook and the wedding expo i mean all of that stuff and with Sharon lawrence again another pairing that at that point we probably we hadn't gotten to see a lot of.

Was this Sharon's first episode? I had to be one of her first, right? I can't. She had the Thanksgiving one. Yeah, that's right. I was flirting with her at the Thanksgiving one. There you go. Yeah.

But I mean, again, to see that, you know, that's not appearing that we're used to sing a whole lot of at that point. And Sharon's obviously like a legend and so good. I mean, when she's like passed out on the bench and Brooke is like talking to herself wandering through the Expo, I was just like, I was, it, it made me remember. you know all of the things that I loved about this show that these characters are so are just so rich and that we've spent so much time with them I mean I was looking at I was looking at the show and I was like season 8 I was like this aired in 2010 you know at this point there are kids

who were probably freshman in high school who started watching season one of one tree hill and if they'd stayed at watching the whole time by this point they're like about to graduate from college. And you think about like the amount of life that happens in those eight years and that people were invested in these characters for so long. And when I see Sof doing what she was doing in the Expo, even though the dialogue is not, you know, all of this is just kind of, you know, nothing really super high brow. You really care about these characters. And it was just a great reminder of why I love the show so much. Lee, is that picture behind you downtown Wilmington? Yes, it is.

I kept looking at it. I'm like, is that Marcus Street? Yeah. That's looking out of the window from a liquid room. That's right. Oh, okay, okay. All right. It just kept bothering me.

I painted it just for you, Twent. No, I didn't paint that. An artist, the local artist in Wilmington did that, but I thought it was fitting for today to have that as my backdrop. Yeah. Yeah. They look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. the podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Another person who we don't get all the time that I absolutely love seeing is Stephen Coletti. And he's been in so much more the season, which I'm grateful for, because he's just so funny. And there's a moment in Red Bedroom Records when it's kind of his mea culpa, he shows up and he's like, coffee break. And it's funny because he's only brought coffee for Haley, excuse me, for Mia. but at the end of it after it gets awkward he goes chase out and i was like oh this happened during the ryan seacrest era the man who pioneered seacrest out yes yeah okay i know when this happened right right yeah yes yes oh yeah it was he was so good and uh and he was you know it was

really fun to watch him this episode because he's he i watched him grow a lot as an actor i mean i remember when he came on he was nervous about coming from Laguna and and coming from the reality show background and like in this episode I mean he's got to meet with the girls and you know this whole battle and he it was great to kind of watch him come into his own so I have a bit of an issue with a later scene involving him and the women so I'm just going to I'm going to Tarantino this we're going to start with the end of it chase after the poker night he goes back to Trick Alex and Mia are there and Alex comes to him sincerely and he's like hey my bad you know hat in hand he's buzzed he's pissed

and so he just he just turns and kisses me right in front of her and um right yeah and as soon as they're done kissing i think it's like mea clocks what's happening and she slaps him here is my beef earlier in the episode she literally says to chase hey if you ever want to make that be i T-C-C-H, jealous, I'm your girl. And I'm like, you literally told him, I'd be happy to make her jealous. He actually takes you up on it and he gets slapped. Did either of you catch that or bump on that? I called it.

Yeah, I did. I mean, if you want to make her jealous, I'm your girl. And she walked out, yeah. Yeah, but I mean, in her defense, sometimes we say things that we think we're okay with. And then when it happens and you're faced with the reality of it, you're like, well, maybe not. So I get it. But, you know, it was tough. It was tough.

I felt for him. Didn't he get slapped twice? Didn't they both slap with it? Yes. He did. First, Alex slaps it. Well, because, listen, he's an absolute jerk about it. He kisses Mia, which is bad enough.

And then he like pulls back and goes, the truth hurts, doesn't it? So he fully deserved the first slap. Yeah, you're a second slap by this. I kind of felt like, oh, you know, like, listen, boys, we're dumb, especially when we're drinking. So I felt like there was a certain amount of leeway he should have gotten in that situation that he didn't. He also had another great line. There was an amazing moment where when Julian shows up at poker night and he walks in, first, it's hilarious because he has his fantasy sequence of everyone being like, Jamie, what's up? And then he comes in to just the coldest reception.

and it's because everyone's pissed that Alex is there and I think it's like junk is saying like hey you brought a girl to poker night great and then just from the back row chase goes good going Julian and like cheers as him with his beer I was like he had one line in that scene and that was the most memorable part for me it was like way to steal a scene Stevie

yeah buddy Yeah, that was great. And I love that, too, like, the whole dream. I was watching the intro sequence, and I'm like, oh, wait, this has got to be, he's dreaming. Like, this is not, you know, this can't be real. But then I was like, did we do stuff like that? And I was like, yeah, we did. And it reminded me again of one of the things, just, again, not having come to the show in a long time.

Like, I love that, especially in their episodes, Tara and Strauss, that we didn't take ourselves too seriously all the time, right? It'd be very easy to do that. and I love that we're in on the joke for you know in a sense it just made it that much more entertaining to me same thing with the mannequin and I will say I called my caro yesterday I told him that I watched this episode and so I said you got to tell me like what's the you know what was going on with the mannequin like I don't you know I didn't remember and I thought it was hysterical when I like wake up and I scream when I'm in bed when mouth's in bed

with them. A little godfather homage. Yes, yes. And then when Toon, when you scream and it overlaps with Janice scream, I literally laughed out loud, which I probably haven't done in my own living room in a long time. I mean, I thought it was really funny and totally absurd. But Harrow said that, you know, I think they were kind of joking about it as often happens in the writer's room, joking about like well we need you know the rivercourt guys they miss their buddy and so maybe twan does something and brings this mannequin i don't know what your job was he was uh he was doing coordinating stunts so it was a stunt doll okay all right so he was saying that's kind of where the idea came from and i think he said they called it chad michael manniquin when they were

referring listen chad michael manniquin and then later in the episode where brook goes uh fine it's best mannequin just make sure you get that dummy a tucks or something like that that those are two terrific puns yes yeah i i'm glad that you did that bit of research because i was very curious about that because in a yeah and i think it was in season seven there was a a moment where our boss clearly took a shot at chad it's where like dan is backstage at his show yeah and um uh denille comes in and is like hey we got to figure out something for sweeps week and dan just says uh what why don't we why don't we get lucas to come i know he's not doing anything and and and it was just so lame and uncool and obvious and heavy-handed and so when when i first saw the chad michael manikin

i was like oh was this going to turn into another and i was glad when it wasn't it was just guys missing their buddy and you know you two were hilarious with it Tuan, you leaving the scene saying he needs a bath and then the look on Lee's face, like, I don't know whether I actually am expected to do that or not. Right, yeah. No, I would not have been okay if it had turned into like a punching doll, so to speak, for Chad. I wouldn't have been okay with that. I didn't read it that way. And I think, you know, we were in this kind of weird position of we lost these central characters, you know, and they,

that he, you know, Lucas had been an integral part of, of our dynamic, right? With the Rivercourt guys. And so there is this weird balance of like the show continues on. And we can't just, you know, pretend like these characters didn't exist. And, you know, I wouldn't have necessarily come up with this way to do it. But it wasn't acknowledgement there of this kind of this, this friend that they missed. And if anything, it just made me miss Chad, honestly, in the episode. I was like, oh, I miss.

I miss our buddy, you know, but, um, so yeah, it was, that was, that was interesting to see for sure. But I wanted to let you know, I talked to Harrow and he was excited. We were doing their episode and, um, he sends his best to everybody, so. Zero. That's my. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing

for the kinds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

And another thing that Heroin Strauss do really well is that thing of the way one scene will end is how another scene begins. Like you were saying with the screaming, you know, or what is it? I think like James is coming back being like, I'm an idiot. And then like someone else has just said like, oh, I'm an idiot. Great transitions. Yeah, yeah. Very good transitions. You could see all of that through the episode.

And yeah, it all did a great job of just tying it all together. And I sort of remembered, like, what the style of the show was, right? It was those transitions with the music, driving it all. And, yeah, it was, it was really nice to see. I know what I like that, that I see from what we did as our, like, our original cast. We made all of the guest stars and co-stars and the new people that came. We always made them feel, they didn't feel like outsiders. Like, you know what I'm saying?

Like, I got to come in and prove myself on this show, because they're already here. And I think we made everybody feel like family because we was in that little small town. You know what I'm saying? Everybody was kind of together and we just kind of welcomed everybody with open arms. So I think that gave them a lot of more, you know, confidence

to come in and make the scenes like organic. You know what I'm saying? Because everybody was like, oh, they're cool because you know how it might be you go to a show. Like, you know what I'm saying? And you're just like, damn, I'm the guest star this week. And I'm just in my dressing room until they call me. And when I get there, it's like everybody's quiet.

nobody's really, you know, you do your scene, and then it's like, all right, then, you know what I'm saying? It's like, Nick, everybody's talking, but you in the corner by yourself. I don't think we did that. Everybody was always kind of like, you know, in a group. Yeah, or at least we tried, I think, as much as we could. Yeah, both of you guys were great at that. I can say from my own experience. And I would say, Antoine, you are the leader of that parade. Like, you were, you were definitely the social manner in terms of like, hey, everyone, like, you guys want to do this tonight? like you would be the sort of the um the initiator of the like group hang and you were great at that and also it's that is not only is that just a great way to be as a human being just to be welcoming

and kind to people but it's also such a smart thing to do because yeah is a big show it was very successful i can tell you firsthand it is very stressful i mean all of us know it's stressful to be guests aren't anything because you're a guest in someone else's home you don't know the flow the vibe all of it but like when i joined our show i was so nervous you know and but when you are welcome with people like that then all of a sudden they kind of like take a breath they drop their shoulders and as actors like that's when that's when you're going to do better work you know so it was just right it was a great kind thing and it was also a very um smart sort of like uh beneficial thing to do for the show yeah it benefits everybody yeah yeah it makes this the fabric of the stronger show

and the relationships feel more real and you can do better work when you trust the people that you're opposite on camera. I loved, so I really wish Joy and Sofer here because there was so many just gems from the Bride Expo, the Bridal Expo.

Yes, yeah. Where was that? I was trying to figure out where that was. Speaking of where things were, James actually went to the Falcon Stadium, right? To it. I saw it. I know.

I was like, well, I guess James got to go to a little. Atlanta. That must have been fun. I don't know how. I don't remember that. But I'd same as you. Lee, I went back and rewound him looking for like a green screen giveaway. Right. Yes. It was like, no, he just got to go there, which was odd because I thought, you flew him in a crew to Atlanta and you shot one scene. Yeah. What if it was like just James and like a steady cam?

Like he's just like holding it and directing him. I guess there's him going down the escalator too. Yeah. What a cool thing for him. No, that was really cool. I had a moment, too, where I was like, because we did always feel sort of like this small show and we were, you know, we didn't have this big grand budget. And then suddenly I was like, wait, he's in the stadium and Atlanta. Like, that's incredible.

Yeah, and he do Carolina, too, right? He went to the Carre, to the Panthers stadium too, right? Did he? Did he? Or he went to Charlotte for the, yeah, yeah, something like that. But yeah, the Bridal Expo stuff. Yeah, like you had said, Lee, Sharon Lawrence, that. is National Treasure Sharon Lawrence is just an assassin.

Yeah. And she crushes the whole momzillo thing. Sof is so funny. So good. And there are so many great moments that like when she's walking down the hallway, it's I think it's right before she discovers Mama Baker passed out. And she's like, she's referencing Diehard. And she's like, come to the bridal expo.

They'd say, have a few laughs. Right. It'll be fun. Yippie Kaye, Mama Baker. Or something like that. And then she's like, I've been hanging. Yes, yes, yes. It was so good, man.

Yeah. She's so good. It reminds me why she is the star she is. I just love her. And she's so good at that. And she's so good. What she's so good at is being funny and bringing that energy, but it all feels so grounded.

Like, similarly to you, Twon, it doesn't, it feels grounded. It doesn't feel forced in any way. And I love that whole arc because, like you were saying, Rob, Sharon, it's just masterful. like very fine line that you have to walk there like to because you're coming and playing this character right and she kind of has to be this mom and like it could be very easy for her to just

come off as annoying and like not feel for her in any way shape or form because you're you're as a viewer you're used to rooting and seeing brook right and here's this new character and she's supposed to be this kind of like mom and getting on brook's nerves but by the end of the arc you know you see more of where she's coming from. You see the humanities and the struggles that she's dealing with. And she just did such a great job of like playing the comedy, but still having that depth to it. And then what I love is the unexpected,

middle of the arc where, you know, Haley comes and you think, you think you know what's going to happen as a viewer. You think Haley's going to, you know, save Brooke. And then suddenly it's, it's the opposite. She's on the mom's side with the pregnancy hormones. And it was just so, it was joyful.

like I enjoy is so good like she's such a great just actress and always so natural and just like I would I remember just watching joy you know on set I'd stand in video village and just watch her and just I would just try to like absorb what she was doing because she was just so in it always and the choices she makes are always so interesting you know as an actress and real and she you know I bought that she's on the mom's side and not on Brooks, but not meaning to do it intentionally. She just, she, she, she, you know, sees a lot of what she wanted in, in a relationship with a mom. Well, that's the best part is that she's not going in there to, to be like a jerk or thinking she's funny. She's in earnest trying to support her friend, but her hormones are getting the better of her. And she's like, I'm so sorry. I'm aware I'm ruining this. What's interesting is that we had, there was a moment, I think, in last season where Julian basically explains that his mom, you know, he was, worried about her and how she watched her go through a depression and how he couldn't save her.

And then what's weird, right, is that this season, Sharon Lawrence shows up and she's, Sharon Lawrence. So she's like floating through the room. She is quick on her feet. She's well spoken. And when we're doing the episode covering, I was like, I'm a little confused. I don't see the woman I thought we were learning about. And then at the end of this episode, it was great that she gets too hammered, passes out.

And then tells me, they reveal. Yeah. I don't tell Julian, he worries. And I thought, what would you guys do? If you were in that spot, you're married, man. Yeah, I mean. If we were in whose spot, in whose shoes? Like, basically who gets priorities?

Do you tell your partner or do you keep? Well, that's part of why I wanted to keep going. I was like, how is she going to handle this? Because, you know, you enter that delicate space of, it was clear by the end of the episode that she, recognized that she could have just gone to Julian and been blatantly honest about how horrible it all was. And you can see her pulling back and realizing that that's a special relationship for him. And it may not be a perfect one and very obviously isn't. But she wants to, she doesn't

want to tear that down. And she wants, you know, to give the mom a chance. But it also lets her know that like, oh, maybe, you know, there's more to this that we may have to deal with, you know, eventually as a family and the repercussions of this. Swan, what would you do? I wouldn't snitch on her. I wouldn't snitch on her. I would probably, I would probably... That's what I meant to say.

Yeah, I would probably, you know, have my own conversation with her. And, you know what I'm saying? Like, on the side, like between us, then I think that would probably strengthen the relationship. But I definitely wouldn't... I wouldn't snitch on her to, you know, give away her our confidence. You know what I'm saying? To let her know, like, she could tell me things. how they wouldn't go anywhere well and also brook has this very complicated dynamic with her own

mother right and so i think she can recognize in a different way you know victoria is not i don't think it'll you know battling alcoholism or anything but she's got victoria is a very unique complicated mother and so i think brook understands you know the the tenuous relationship of that and and maybe she feels like that's something she'll be able to help Julian with you know I don't know I don't know it's again I just wanted to keep watching

and now I'm going to have to we suck you back in Norris you did I'm back in guys like four episodes into doing this podcast I it was like I either was I missed a podcast so there was one I was able to just watch without having to take

notes and I was able to just be a viewer and do I enjoyed the heck out of it. So when I came on the next episode, I was like, Oh, good. I get it. I caught one tree hill fever and I, I mean, I already could tell.

I already knew why the show was such a success. But when you get to just be a viewer and just enjoy it, it's a great ride. Yeah. You haven't seen any of the earlier seasons, have you? You're going to have to go back and do a deep dive with all your free time. Drama Queen's 2.0 would just be me talking about seasons, one through five maybe with you guys yeah yeah there was a great moment in that um bridal

expo where uh they're talking of course like uh Sharon just ruins every every plan of her is like oh i was going to have my friend uh Quinn take photos she's like who or something like that and she goes uh yes yeah it Quinn yeah um Quinn James she just goes never heard of it yes yes the And then when it comes to bridesmaids, she says, because I think Brooke's like, I'm going to design my own bridesmaid stuff. And she says, oh, honey, the whole point is for them to look ugly so that you look pretty. And I thought, what's so good. There's that there's, that works on two levels. One, I don't know why, but bridesmaids dresses usually are pretty horrible.

But it's also such a hilarious backhanded insult. Like, you need them to look ugly. Like you need that. Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, I know, I love that. And I do have to shout out another behind the scenes fact. At one point, they, I think she mentions Matt McGraw photography.

She was like, oh, you should have Matt McGraw photography, and they show his booth. He's an actual real photographer in Wilmington. So I remember we used to see Matt out and about around town, and he's actually a real wedding photographer. So like a Wilmington local. So just, you know, fun fact, just bringing the Wilmington knowledge today. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornette. who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. Totally off topic and unrelated, but I referenced this in an earlier episode, Lee. It's when you are Matt and Millie have just had like a one night stand. Like it's their first time being back together. And I was like Lee looks like Captain America. Like you look great. I think we even even became an.

Instagram clip that you commented on. So you're aware of what I'm talking about. Yeah. Oh, yes. Thank God. Yeah, you know, somehow the magical algorithm, like, knew that I needed a self-esteem boost that day and it landed in my feed. And I was like, thank you Rob Buckley. And, you know, and I was, it meant a lot that you, that you noticed and that you, you know, made a point of it, of pointing it out. Yeah, I was, I was working hard that season. Yeah. Is that just for sheds and giggles? Well, I'll tell you, when you, uh, go to set every day, with James Lafferty and yourself and Antoine Tanner and Austin Nichols, you got to set up your game and you feel some pressure there.

But no, I mean, I think the reality was, I think maybe I was engaged around this point in the wedding, you know, we were starting to get to that. And I was like, I want to feel good about myself. So I was putting in some extra reps. And then, you know, I noticed the shirt started to come off more on the show. So I thought they must be paying attention. But then that all went out the window next season,

when they made mouth gain a bunch of weight. I know when he had to fed soup. That was the craziest one. Yes. Yeah. There is this weird thing that happens on our show where it's like the amasculation of Austin, where when he first came in, he was like this slick, cool producer. And then as soon as he becomes a love interest,

it's at every turn that they can make him as unleading man as possible. They try. And like, for example, he doesn't. know how to high five that was in the episode prior like what 30 year old guy doesn't know how to high five the thing is austin is so immensely likable and charming that it never right that's what i was going to say yeah it doesn't he's just so funny that i just i remember that as just being like a goof he's just laughing at it because he was so goofy doing the like yeah i can't even remember you know he just made it work to his credit and i think we're just

We all had instances where we felt like, you know, we didn't quite know what to do and we just had to commit and make it work. And he was always nobody better than him at doing that. But yeah, I noticed that in this episode, too. It was interesting to see the kind of dynamic of him with all the guys, right, and not used to being with them. But I loved it. I loved that the stereotype was kind of flipped on its head. And then it's not, you know, that he is sort of uncomfortable at a poker night and that he done. all the decorations in the back, you know, and I love that.

I mean, I'm not your stereotypical guy's guy who had like a poker night. And so I could kind of relate to him in that sense of like wanting to win people over. And so I did find that interesting and likable in a way that he's not just your average bro, but also, yeah, I'm not for emasculating anybody. I don't, just to do it. But I thought in this instance, it was interesting to see, you know, kind of that. yeah and i i say that because it wasn't until i watched like i said the episode where mouth and milly hook back up and and then they started to kind of have you like being around

in a tank top and and you you were looking great and then i my brain went oh but next season is the fat suit yeah and i i just wondered is there a chance that like the the the super glow up the Captain America glow up inspired a random storyline because I remember at the time even being like what like trying to politely ask you like what the hell and you're basically like I don't know dude do you to this day do you know what that was about I don't I can speculate but I mean you know I don't really know I think I remember some like I think they were saying some about how Lee, how your character or some lost a job or something and he was depressed. Yeah.

That's right. You had went away, you had went away, right? And to some job and then came back, right? Maybe. I don't, I don't remember what this set up for it was. And this happened like now, this has already happened, is that if the start of season seven, yes, Nathan is accused by this woman of getting her pregnant on a one-night stand and it's about to make news and Nathan's like, hey, this is untrue. And mouth being the

stand up guy he is, isn't reporting. And mouth's boss is like, hey man, report the story. And then mouth on air is basically like, no, I'm not going to report this story because it's hearsay and that's a person's life. And it costs his job, even though he ended up being right. So what you're seeing now is like, so he's already been unemployed. He's kind of evolving right which is the bar why he's why he's working as the bar back at at trick yeah you to mouth's credit he did start a podcast which i was i was remarking that he was way before his time yeah where are my realties guys come on so again it just like i said the fat suit of it all i kind of was like yeah yeah is this just i don't know you know i i don't know where it came from i i i do

know that you know there was some notice that i've been working out more and stuff like that but um And I think there was this kind of reminder of like, oh, yes, you are the, you're supposed to be the nice guy, the average guy, you know. But I never felt like any amount of working out was ever going to make me look like Chad or James or, you know, I always felt like I was who I was. So I don't know where the plot line came from. I do remember being just extremely concerned, obviously, about wanting to get it right and tell it in a respectful way. And, you know, we had a lot of problems with the makeup test for that. The makeup didn't end up looking right. I think they needed to spend more money on it.

And, you know, I just at a certain point, felt like, gosh, I just, my prayer is that people watch this and they see that I'm trying to honor what is a very real struggle for so many people. And that there is no trying to make a light of this. So that's the way that I approached it in every instance that I could. But, you know, it's just one of those things where I think season nine, they're, they're, listen, it is hard to spend yarn and stories for this many characters for that long. And I think this was just one of those things where they thought, we'll just put him in this situation and see what happens. But, you know, I ultimately loved where it ended up at the end of that season. No spoilers, because I do not remember. Yeah, okay.

All right, all right. But it goes back more into his reporting and Jimmy and all of that, which were the Jimmy Edwards, which, you know, that whole relationship was just really a driving factor for my character. And one of the things that I loved the most about his storyline. So it all worked out, but yeah. Yeah, are y'all on the bird part yet? And I was with when I was working at the, at the network with Lee, who was when I was the bird, the chicken. Oh, that must have been right before season seven. I can't remember when it was

Yeah they always had you doing something silly Twine you always had a costume Look like that's part of the frustration Is listen it's an ensemble show It is so hard to do well Because at the end of the day You know you're given something like Four and a half minutes

Of screen time per character You know And it's also because like I you everyone in the show is so good Like everyone is there's not a weak link And so when you know someone's good and capable of so much, it's hard to watch them do a storyline that is just, it's not, it's not, like it's not interesting

or it's not capitalizing on any of their superpowers. Well, and two, you know, I was another just observation of coming back into this and looking at it, I pulled it up on, you know, Hulu or HBO Max or whatever it was. And I saw all the seasons and I was like, God, 23 episodes. Like, there were so much,

to fill. And it was, it made me kind of nostalgic for that time in a way where you had more room to breathe and kind of really dive in deep with characters. Now, sometimes that resulted in episodes that were more filler episodes, but it was nice. It just made me a little bit nostalgic for that time where you really had time to sit and get invested in characters. And nowadays, you get six, seven episodes. And yes, each episode is jam packed with stuff and it keeps you sort of glued to it, but you just don't get that time to really sit with the characters as much, you know? It's just, it's all different now. You know that, Twan. It's a different, it's a different

rhythm now. Yeah, it's totally different. I just did, you know, I just did those two movies on the East Coast when I went and worked with with the guys who did the Irishman, you know? Yeah, yeah. And that was, it was so different. It was like the industry has changed so much. So much. No different. I was like, wow. Like, it was like shell shocking on how much it changed. Like super shell shocking on how much has changed. So it's just like, yeah, but I get it, you know.

Yes, yeah. But I did miss that like, you know, it made me think back to when you used to have to wait a whole week in between shows, right? And so that's why that CODA had to be so good. It was because you had to get people hooked and wait another six days to come back and find out what happened, you know? So I just- It's bandit. Dude, our show's undefeated when it comes to music. So good, yeah.

Did you guys find it odd that Julian didn't have a single friend from back home that he could have called? You're overthinking it, Rob. You're overthinking it. Well, and apparently a behind the scenes thing was our boss did not want to have a bunch of, like, hot friends, like, show up, which is a whole other weird thing. But, yeah, poor Julian, you know, he's trying in earnest. Alex kind of bones him by cheating and rigging the game so that he wins. Oh, that's right. Everyone leaves super pissed at him, which is why he's literally left with a mannequin as his best man.

Is it? Yeah. Yeah, the one-liners that were flying at that table were it got brutal. it was again the unexpected you know they did a great job of setting it up as like oh it's going to be this fun boys night and then it all just goes awry but um but i loved again that they brought junk and fergy into all of that you know two characters that are criminally underused and then you know suddenly they're trading barbs with jana and yeah as far as the austin and the best man thing of it all i mean it just um yeah i i i

Who ends up being his best man? Does he... I think, is it Jamie? Oh, that would be great. That would be great. I think it was. Yeah. I think it was.

I don't recall, but I just, after seeing... I didn't remember it being one of us. And after just seeing how terrible went tonight, it would make sense that it's Jamie, which would also be so incredibly endearing. I did love the through line of Jamie Found a Frog. Throughout the episode, that was great. That was so funny.

That's one of my favorite runners. that Clay is talking to Nathan at his house. And he goes, hey, I got an interesting call last night. And Nathan goes, yeah, sorry, Jamie's been calling everyone about the frog that he found. And Clay's like, no, wait, Jamie found a frog? Right. That's awesome. And I was like, that's a perfect moment of seeing like a grown dude just like he's still a little boy.

You found a frog? That's incredible. well and also now like you know going back and watching this as a dad now right at this stage in my life like it's funny because now as a dad i i identify with it so much more and it's like when our kids do something anything that we find funny like we tell our friends about it and other like if you were just dropping in on that conversation from no year you'd be like oh a kid found a frog but like when you're talking to your friends about your kids it's like oh he found a frog like you're rooting for them and you're you're in that stage of life and so to see that

kind of evolution of these characters who we started with in high school and now their parents. And to be watching it now as a real parent myself, like, I just approached this from a whole new lens that made the show that much more interesting. And I will say, too, like, I loved at the end when Nathan and Haley are in bed and crash. And they're like, you picked up Jamie, right? And they're like, no, and got up. And like, I was just, I related to that so much more. Whereas I think at the time when we filmed it, I was like, gosh, it's their parents. That's, you know, I just wasn't at that stage of my life.

Twan, you were. You're old. Yeah, I was, I was daddy. I was daddy. Yeah, you knew all about it. But it's the truth. It's like parenting, it's, you know, it's for trash cans, three lids. So it's like, you never really have all of it taken care of.

And so I love that they're also like victory lapping themselves where she's like, yeah, I may have found a new client. And Nathan's like, I signed a new client. We're incredible. Oh, my God, we forgot to pick up our only child. Right. it's that perfect that perfect turn um yeah yeah i mean the poker game was wild uh obviously nathan's mad at clay rightfully so i don't know why clay would bury the lead not tell him till the end of the night i couldn't figure that out either i was like so he must have known that

it was okay right and then in the like i was trying to figure and i was talking to and i was talking to andrew about that and we're like he must have known so why did he wait that i didn't get because clay if and if anything maybe i no no maybe i could have played it differently because it almost looks like some of the looks I'm giving him are a little contentious back like I couldn't so that's why when I had when Clay has good news from I was like why wouldn't you have led with that your buddy was obviously genuinely upset yeah and that's a huge piece of great news but I was also surprised by uh the reveal that Alex had actually slept with clay because we never saw that on camera yeah I was I was shocked about that too I was shocked I was

like, because when I caught it when she said, oh, why would you want to leave when you could see the ocean from your bed? Oh, yeah. The looks that went around the table. Like, well, all right. I was all right. Somebody did something. And I loved the junk in Fergie throwing the Lauren barb at both of you guys.

It just throwing the awkward bomb in the middle of the table and watching you guys just have to deal with it. Yeah, your character had some, had some, whether he didn't like, you didn't like skills. he didn't like fortitude. He was like, oh, yeah, he got 42. Yeah. So one more fun fact from Harrow. He said the conversation about the naming of the agency, Adobe and Fortitude.

That actually was a real conversation that happened in the writer's room when they were trying to figure out what to name the agency. So that was literally verbatim, he said almost, a real conversation that happened between several writers. And then they just decided to put it in the episode. See, that's fascinating to me because I got to say when she said that, I thought that's actually genius. Like, because fortitude, the inception, inception of that was actually the first time Dan Scott drowns clay at the beach. When he's like, you're responsible for your own life.

You're the one who has to like fix it. Right. And he says, you got to have fortitude. And then it's like that that's sort of the inception of it. I know. But I love that that was a real, because it did sound so like. real and conversational and it was like, yeah, it was a real thought, you know, like debate we were having about how to do it. So I love that. Yeah, buddy. Nice peek behind the curtain,

Norris. All right, before we do wrap this up, I need to get honorable mentions from you guys. This can be a line, a moment, anything from the episode that stood out to you that you really liked. Okay, I liked the part when he said, I think Lucas needs a bath, but I was still wondering who the hell was going to give him the bath? Was it me or are you? Who was supposed to give Lucas the bath? Not me. The way you played it, I thought you were saying it had to be mouth. Yeah, that's what I thought.

I was like, okay, well, Lucas needs a bath. And he was like, nah, so I didn't know who the hell was supposed to give him a bad. Yeah. Honorable mention goes to my friend, Vaughn, aka Fergie. He got to talk about his nickname and explain that his real name is Ferguson. So shout out to Vaughn. Shout out also to Colin Moss, our intrepid junk, who explains his name, his nickname was from his parents' home to Junkyard.

So, you know, these are characters that have been around since the pilot, and they were faithful actors and friends to us and showed up, you know, whenever they were called, and they didn't always get as much of the love as the rest of us got. And so I just was so happy to see those guys and get to hear more. about their characters and you know they're both such great guys and um i i just love love that that moment for them so they're they're my honorable mention yes yes yeah those guys are great uh i've got a three way uh honorable mention chad michael mannikin would be my first that that that name is so freaking funny i'm so glad that you had you knew that and then there was two one-liners that were so

so good. One was, it's when Alex goes to Trick and she sees Chase and Mia talking. And she says, excuse me, bar manager, when you're done helping that little boy, can I get a drink? That cracked me up. And then shortly thereafter, when Alex is trying to get Julian, she's helping him organize the card night. She's, he's like, I don't know, it's late. It's last minute. And she says, is just organize it and say it's for Clay. Who'd turn that guy down? He almost died. And he goes in Austin's perfect way.

So sincerely, he goes, that's genius. You're really good at trapping people. What a gift. What a compliment. I know. I love that. Our listener question is actually dovetails perfectly into it. Karina asks,

who do you think is a better match for Chase, Alex or Mia? And do either of you remember enough to even answer that question? I don't know. I don't remember they love story like that because, you know, I knew how it went, you know, I was busy doing my own thing, trying to figure out my love life on the show. You know, and I was all over the place. I was scattered. I want to say, I want to say that Mia and Chase for me, I think, felt like a natural fit. But in terms of, like, actually seeing it play out, like, you know, Alex is just so interesting. entertaining and fun that that kind of banter between them two was always so great. So it's a win-win for me either way because either I'm getting to watch like this great Alex

Chase banter, but then also I think from a real life point of view, Mia feels like a better fit. For him, what do you think, Rob? What's your what's your take on that? We need Coletti to hear to do a deep dive. Yeah, I mean, the question is is who do we think is a better match for Chase? So I would say better match is Mia more into. to watch is Alex because she is like a firecracker. You just don't know what's going to

happen next. I mean, it's super high high, high, super low lows. Exactly. So better for him, Mia, better for us. Alex, solved. Yes. Agreed. Well, I got to say I'm sad that Soph and Joy couldn't be here

to hang with you guys, but selfishly I loved getting to have you all to myself. I've said before on this podcast that if there was one job I could go back and do over again it would be this one and a large reason for that is because I felt like

I didn't really get to know so many of you guys why we were doing it and it's not until we kind of all grew up and started doing these conventions and seeing each other that I've discovered how awesome you are and like you, both of you

are big examples of that where it's like I just sort of knew you when we were doing it but now I'm like Oh, like every time I see you guys at a convention, it's like, I'm so excited to give you hug. Because you're just, you're such great guys and your good friends. And I really, I got a lot of love for you.

And I appreciate you taking the time out of your day to come and, uh, and join me in the drama dojo. Oh, man, it's nothing, man. I appreciate you having me. So as I saw the request, I was like, oh, yeah, I'm dead. What's good? What time? At 8.30, that was usually my gym time.

But I was like, you know what? I'll do it at 10.30. I'll just sleep in the day. And thank you, buddy. And, Rob, you know, I told you this when you joined the Queens, but you're doing a great job and you're reping for us guys and you're bringing a great perspective to it. So thanks for, you know, being a voice for us and for having us on. And I can't wait to see you both, hopefully soon at one of these, you know, reunions that we're doing somewhere. Yeah. March and June. There's some. So hopefully I'll see you guys there. Yeah, to least credit, this is what eventually is after my first episode aired,

Lee sent me a text out of the blue and we text each other about a little bit once every several years. Just to say, yeah, yeah, we got our dad hands full. Just to say like, hey, buddy, that was great. You did a good job. And much like when I started on One Tree Hill and I was the new kid on an already successful thing, that can be stressful and worrisome. And getting that message from you, man, was so kind and meant so much to me.

Well, tell the girls we miss them and we love them And we'll see you all very soon Yes Sounds like a plan, boys Next episode We have season eight, episode eight Mouthful of Diamonds Thanks for joining us, gang

Have a good one Hey, thanks for listening Don't forget to leave us a review You can also follow us on Instagram At Drama Queen's OTH Or email us at Drama queens at iHeartRadio.com See you next time

All about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama queen, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queen. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.