Drama Queens - Even More • EP509 with Michaela McManus

Episode Date: July 10, 2023

In an episode that was literally packed with drama, what stood out the most may have been the chemistry between Michaela and Chad. She explains where it came from, along with a significant Lindsey story that may now have you seeing her in a different way.  Plus, the Drama Queens dissect arguably one of Brooke and Peyton’s biggest moments together.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. well hey everybody here we are we're back for episode season 5 episode 9 for tonight we're only here

to know which aired February 26 2008 and guys we have Michaela McManus with us we're so excited to have you back ready to talk about the episode um what would you like to read the synopsis tell us a little bit about what happened here it's in the chat it's in the chat now you know how the sausage gets made everything's in the chat okay it's the first game of the season and it's mouth's big chance to impress with his coverage of the game meanwhile haley brook peyton lindsay and mea get locked in the tree hill library and a lot gets said particularly between lindsay and peyton elsewhere nathan and lucas endeavor to tell both haley and lindsay about their indiscretions oh yeah this is a packed episode but

Man, I loved the flow. This felt so good just from the openings. Even the recap had music behind it. It was shot by Joe DeVola, who I don't, was he ever a music video director? Because I know he was MTV for a long time. He was MTV. He wanted to be. He wasn't.

You know what? He did a really great job with this episode. I thought the flow was so beautiful. I didn't like the music video at the end. Like the weird thing. Yeah, that was cringe. It was so cringed. I was like, are we going to talk about it? Oh, yeah. Let's just talk about it. Let's get it out of the way.

Okay, okay. Let's get it out of the way. Hillary, go. Listen. You literally have your arms outstretched. My arms are outstretched. Listen, you guys, it was an awkward time. Our boss was trying to sleep with poor sweet Kate, and she was just not having it. And he was like, I know how to win her over. We'll turn the whole episode into a music video for her. And even she was a little like, yeah, I don't know. Why would all these characters be lip singing to my song? And they were like, it's going to be great.

And all of us said, why would we in the middle of an episode start lip syncing to a song we supposedly can't hear? We've never heard. She's writing it on the spot. We don't even know the song. It's so stupid. In the script, it was just like, it wasn't even that we were lip syncing. It's that we were actually singing. and we had to go into the ADR studio

and record, right? Yes. I do remember that, yeah. Oh, my God. Michaela, for you being like brand new, how uncomfortable. Just lean against this wall of books and, you know, sing, sing. Sing how you're feeling.

I feel like it was a magnolia, like that movie. Didn't they do that in the movie? Yeah, maybe they did. Maybe they're trying to copy that. I wonder. Oh, was that one of the days where we'd get the laptop being like, this is the scene we're copying. Oh, my God.

Because that would happen quite a bit. It might have been. I don't sing on TV. That's not my game, especially not if I know if Joy's singing, if Kate's singing, I want no part of this contest. Not happening. And they're like, no, it'll be cool. And I'm like, I'm going to sing so quiet. You can't hear me.

well aside from that i thought it was really fun not the flow of everything and the boys like walking into the gym and slow motion was so fun and that mod squad walk was such a vibe and when it went wide and little jackson in his little uniform it just made me squeal and then thinking about all of us being in the library i was like where was our mod squad walk yeah you got all the girls like come on they should i I wish they'd mirrored it when we got out. Yes. They made us do all the emotional labor and we didn't get the payoff? That's so dumb.

That is bullshit. Well, he was great. And also Jamie and Quentin doing the wrap on the bench. There were so many nice little moments of just set up everything to still remind us of what's happening in the story around us, even though the whole episode centered on the girls. Yeah. And sweet Brett. And you know what I loved, too, was. getting into the high school and assuming we were going to Haley's class, because that's why

we've been there in season five, the kids that are walking around Tree Hill High look like kids. Yes. That was my first note. Yes. You know? And like, there's these little girls in our cheer uniforms and it's so surreal. And then suddenly we're in your classroom and there's Mia and it's like, wait, what's happening? Wait, what?

Yeah. And then you get the behind the scenes, you know, the. You realize we're on a set and Peyton's directing, which I loved. And then the Rick Clark cameo. Oh, Rick. That was great. Rick Clark was our real first AD for you guys at home. And when they pulled that wall in Haley's classroom, that was really Haley's classroom.

And they just pulled the wall on our stage. Like, that was not anything special. It was just. The actual set. But it was so cool to get inside of it. And it was always fun for us when, you know, folks who worked on our crew, who we spend more time with, and our families would get these little cameos. And fun fact, I got to have a whole second life with Rick

because Rick Clark was the first AD on Chicago Med. So we spent three years working in Chicago together and he's just the most wonderful person. And it was really fun to see him on camera in this episode. Rick Clark's a good dude. When all the Me Too stuff happened, him and one other man from our crew are the only men that texted me to be like, I'm so sorry I should have protected you.

Like, he really took a lot of, he was very emotionally invested in us and was really hurt by what happened. And so I'd love to shout out a good man. He's a good one. I love that guy. Love him. I thought, yeah, the music video at the beginning was so cool. Why do we have to do another one?

Fucking weird, man. Yeah. So strange. I love that opening song of hers, too. Yeah. Yeah. It was fun. So it was a good epic opening and then leading us all into the gym. It was fun.

It was a fun. I mean, there was a lot of levels, a lot of layers for us to play with in this episode. There was a lot to try and navigate. You know, you don't want to give away too much too soon, trying to keep the comedy going, but also all the underneath layers of the drama and anima, It was a lot to balance. I'm proud of us, guys. I thought we did a really good thing.

I just want to know why Peyton chooses the day we're shooting the music video. We've been there all day. Why she chooses like that specific moment to be like, Haley, I'm really sorry about all the Lindsay stuff. I'm going to let it go. I swear. Like, it was such a weird thing to be like, oh, by the way, this elephant in the room. I'm so sorry you haven't addressed this.

It's going to play later. So I should say it right now. Let me do it in front of a bunch of people when there's cameras in the room. This is the absolute right moment for this conversation. Loved it. But also, what is Peyton doing going to that basketball game? That's weird. Yeah.

And then Peyton's response, because she's looking at you guys and me, the three of us, she's looking at us in the stands. She goes, who we hate, the girl's showing off her cheap-ass engagement ring to my best friend. Best friend. Oh, so rude. it is funny because in the previous episode you have like this beautiful scene at the end with Lucas in the gym yeah love that scene you're so connected and emotional and you handle the whole thing with such grace after everything that went down and you say you know something along the lines

that I'm always going to love you but if you need me to let you go I will I'll do that for you it's a really like you kind of just surrender yourself to these circumstances and I and I saw a little bit of that too, even with your, you know, interaction with Haley during that music video, you were like, I'm sorry, I'm going to work on this. It's hard, but I'm going to do my best. And then it just like goes, it goes, like, goes to the whole other mode. You mean the episode written by your wonderful husband that made Peyton like a fully, like, fleshed out person who was not just a vindictive bitch? Um, he didn't write this one. And it really had, it felt like, this was written by our shitty boss and it was during the strike so it couldn't be changed and I remember having

the fight about the character assassination element here because I can understand Peyton being like pissy the Brooke and Haley are all buddyed up with Lindsay like okay I get it but not to the point of being this combative and when we shot you guys coming in it was like right before the commercial break when you guys come in and you and I like really got into it right off the bat right off the bat so weird yeah I remember them saying to me was joe de vola directing and he's like it needs to be bitchier it needs to be bitchier it needs to like this is the commercial break make a snap you know and it was his first time directing and so he was really trying to make art um and I was if you notice at the end of the episode. It was dedicated to Bernard Kowalski. And that was my boyfriend's grandfather. It was our

DP's dad. It was my boyfriend's dad's father-in-law. It was such a huge blow to that whole family. And that was the only grandfather that I have had, really. And we were all devastated. And so they all left to go to the funeral in L.A. and I was having to fly back and forth. And so I've got Joe screaming at me dealing with like a real death. and I lost my mind. I don't know if you guys remember this, but I was in those bookshelves hiding. And he's yelling direction at me

from across the library. And our boss was behind him, like whispering in his ear, telling him what to say. And I finally yelled back like, well, why don't you have so-and-so take his hand out of your ass and stop using you as a puppet and I'm going to do it my way?

Like it became this like super combative thing. And I burst into tears. I was like, this girl's brokenhearted. Her two best friends have ditched her for this replacement girl, and it hurts. It shouldn't be mean. It should be sad. And so I'm hiding in the bookcase crying. And Steve Allen, our grip came around and found me and just wrapped me into the biggest hug.

And he was just like, he just like whispered in my ear. He's like, come up, sis. Come up. And so then you can see in the scene when you guys all, come in. My eyes are super red. And Peyton does legitimately just look like hurt. And I thought for that. Like, it has to come from a place of hurt. Otherwise, it's so dumb. Girls aren't like that. Well, especially after she just said, I'm going to work on this. I'm going to be bigger. Well, and that, I mean, to your point, Michaela, about what you were saying last week about how

so often, like, getting into this new medium for you, you were surprised about how, like, week to week you would learn things about your character. We had been fighting these fights for years of like, last week I did this. So why am I now doing that this week? It doesn't make sense. And they would tell us essentially to stay in our lanes. And something that struck me... Isn't this my lane?

I'm like, I think that my character is my exact lane. Didn't you hire me to actually literally be this lane? I don't know if it struck you to... And Michaela, I don't know how far you've gone back, but I went, oh, they just have this lazy device when there's a love triangle because essentially what they did was they made Peyton speak in the petty, unbearably mean ways that when Peyton Brooke and Lucas were in a love triangle, they would make Brooke speak and it was like vicious and vindictive and like always about weight and always like it was just gross. And it wasn't rooted in any feeling. So we would have to find the feeling. And watching this episode tonight, I was like, oh, shit. They've essentially made Peyton into Brooke and Lindsay into Peyton.

And wow. Just the same old, same old. These guys we work for are just like, this is how women would fight over us. And I'm like, is it? Actually, sidebar, when Kate and you guys are walking into the library and you like, do you want to see where I got shot? which was such a weird way to, like, why in the world? Sophia and I looked at each other while we were watching.

We were just like, what is this dialogue? So tacky. But Kate says, okay, what she says is cat fight can wait. But it sounds like she's saying, can't fucking wait. It's really funny because I did have to go back and rewind it. I was like, wait. Did we get away with something? Did we get away with that?

It's just so odd. every once in a while we'd have episodes like this where there'd be this beautiful depth where Lindsay and Peyton get to and this shared loss of parents and like beautiful acting on both of your parts and then like you know whatever it is like you know Peyton's a bitch and manface Lindsay and and the song and it's like what how how are these two things happening in the same episode of television, I literally don't understand. I remember the first time I read this script and hearing those insults or reading those insults. I was like, this is just so below the belt. It's, it's, I don't, I cannot believe that either of these

characters would say, would spew such vitriol. I know they're in there, and they're dealing with a lot. And, you know, it's important to show all the colors of people. Sure. Like, we're not perfect. But this just took it to such a place that I was like, this does not ring true to me. I know, I would never say this kind of thing. Yeah. No, but even if we were.

It's not clever. It's not fucking clever. Like, we would be smart about it and be like, that's, oh, okay, that's the choice you're going to make. Fantastic. They should have had two women actually right. that scene or one woman but like if you put two women in a room and figure out how it would actually go yeah it would have been a lot smarter because i felt when and this is i'm jumping ahead a little bit but in that moment where lindsay has the breakdown and you kind of push the buttons and

oh daddy's little girl and daddy's like that typically made sense because i'm like okay yes assumptions based on what we're seeing people or what we think we've all done that we've all been guilty of that and then you're like oh I was so wrong about I messed up right that I get that ugliness right like yeah human and that feels right but this stuff like it felt a little blurry to me when I read the script and I was like is this is this Lindsay saying this to Peyton or is this somebody else saying this to Hillary and vice versa it felt and pointed in a way that was like yeah really kind of upset me. in the moment, and then having to, having to, like, what you said, Sophie,

it's like, you have to find this, you have to find, like, where are you coming from to say this? And it was challenging. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional,

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep tradition.

alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. The only thing that I could think that, like, saved it is what you're witnessing are two animals of the same species, right? like Lindsay and Peyton are the same species and we're all cats but these are the two like jaguars you know that are just like oh you wanted to go cool let's go and I heard a really interesting quote once about people who have really similar personalities like that and it's

that they can survive in the wild together when they each have their own territory and everything's cool but you put them in a cage and they have to kill each other they just have to because only one can survive. And I, the only like glimmer of hope I can see from all of this super nasty exchange is that we're seeing that Lucas basically has fallen for the same girl. They're just so similar in that way where they are noble, but they're not afraid to get dirty. And, and they're also able to correct themselves, which not everyone is able to do. Thank God for that at the end of the episode. Yeah. If we just had to live in that student, Oh, yeah.

Paz. But yeah, where are you guys take it, and that's it. That's why it feels confusing, right? It's like whiplash. There's such authenticity. And it feels relieving, of course, but also, I don't know. It's just confusing that we get to that place that's so good. But we had to start in this other place.

And yeah, maybe it was also, to your point, Hillary, the immaturity of like a first-time director going, make it bigger, make it meaner, like, because they think that's what something requires, like. Big equals drama. Yeah, and it's like, I don't think so. But there were, there were all of these moments that were so great. Like, and it makes it a little, yeah, I, the only, I, the only, I, the only, I, I, I, the only, I, I, I, I, I, the only, word I can I keep coming back to is whiplash it makes it feel really like jostling to have such good emotion and such good comedy like Michaela when you fall backwards with that chair oh my god like I did a spit take I laughed so hard when like when mouth's ringer is loony tunes and it's like I just was like

what is happening this stuff is so funny and then yeah when they start taking cheap shots you're like wait But we know how to be funny, and we know how to be really vulnerable. Can we do more of those things? Yeah, we could have had expensive shots rather than cheap shots. That would have been fun. You know what I mean? It was a writer's strike. What were you going to do?

See kids? See what happens? That's what it is. Yeah, it was the strike. Oh, wow. Well, I like that at the beginning of the episode, we get that little bit of Nathan and Haley. And you think he's going to tell her. Oh, God.

I was like, thank God. And I liked it because while Michaela and I are in the shit for the whole episode, and Haley's just like, I'm the voice of reason. There's just that little thing in the back of your head like, she doesn't even know. Her shit's worse than our shit. Totally. Her husband's kissing the nanny.

And he's seen her naked. Ah, multiple times. Multiple times. Yeah, that would have been fun to play up a little bit more. sort of know it all like Haley trying to be, you know, be in charge of everything and like really I wish I had a little more to do. That would have been a good thing because it would just show you how much she didn't know until the next episode. Well, it would have been cool. Like in that way that Haley pushes back on Brooke about her mom. When like when the initial were trapped in the

library, let's talk turns into the Victoria is not good for you bit. Yeah. But you all do for me if somehow they'd been able to give that same sort of gusto that you got to have in what I can tell you about a mother is this and a mother's love is unconditional and like it was such a good push at Brooke it would have been so cool if they had figured out a device where like you thought you were going to be with Lucas you're engaged to Lucas this is what marriage is like it would have been so juicy yeah if Haley had a similar like I'm the best mom and I'm the best wife. And let me tell you what marriage is and everybody,

the audience would have been cringing. Yeah. I feel like they missed the opportunity. Totally. Oh. How creepy that Carrie just like swept in though, man. I'm going to grad school. I'm going to go to grad school and I'm going to miss you more than you know.

I was like, oh my God. Oh, God. Dying. Yeah. It's so great that Tori is so great because it would have been tough if she was like weird and bitchy or like very like competitive and you know jealous or something because you know sometimes you work with women like that's like I don't I don't know how to function around we've had those yeah but Tori was so great it's so hard to be mad at her I know love her

but did it make all of us question how we hire nannies like none of us were mothers at the time but I've had to hire multiple nannies there's no way I would hire a nanny that looks like her It did get into my head a little bit, you guys. I'm a level with you. Just like, because there was one chick in L.A. that I had gotten on referral when I was doing, what was I doing? I was doing it. I was like grazing out of me or something.

And this chick came over and she was there for one day. And I came home and she was swimming. And I was like, nope, got to go. Peace. Yeah. Can't do it, kid. Goodbye. Pass.

That's so inappropriate. relationship they're like in your home and with your kids like yeah and she you know what if she's going to be in your house swimming with your husband and your child she should be in a like a wetsuit like one of those little cutoff wetsuits one of those 1920s like pantaloons out of the sake of like of total propriety and letting you know you should be comfortable because I am totally out of you know off limits that moment when she calls oh god it's so creepy when first of when she calls he calls calls her mama, which is totally understandable. They're spending so much time, but it's, it is such a, like, it's such a close relationship. And then that moment where she says, can I tell you a secret? I don't think so. She's like, sometimes I pretend you're my kid. You know, that with all of us so badly. I did not like that. I did not like that at all. No, that's like our worst nightmare.

Yeah. Oh my. Don't do that. Psychotic. Oh, Nanny Carey. Oh, Nana. I mean, do we think Nathan's going to tell her, for real, right? Well, now that she's leaving, I think she's trying to get it so that he doesn't have to tell her because now she's removing herself from the equation. So she's not a threat anymore. So that buys her a little more time of him not telling her. But he says at the end of the episode with Lucas.

Yeah. And he says that thing. Wait, where is it? I wrote it down that I thought was really. Really beautiful to hear, especially from Nathan, like, just given his dynamic growing up with Dan and Dan's jersey being pulled off the wall, like, and Mouth's whole overview of this is really a story about fathers and sons, that they wrapped that all up with Nathan saying, I have to stop being my father and start being the father, my son thinks I am.

Like, he is saying that he wants. to be different. He wants to live up to being the kind of man that is a goal. And I feel like, I don't remember what happens in the next one,

but I feel like he wants to tell Haley or is gonna tell Haley or I don't know, but... I just love that he's like, I'm gonna tell Haley and Lucas, who he just confronted about kissing Peyton, like,

crickets. There's not one minute where Lucas is like, yeah, I should probably tell Lindsay too, right? Right. No, nothing, not even slightly. And by the way, it's Peyton who cleans up Lucas's mess because Brooke reveals in this episode that she's seen that ring.

She knows it was Peyton's ring. And Peyton does the greatest kindness and says, I only know what that ring looks like because Keith gave it to Karen. Oh, that made me cry. I was like, that is such a beautiful choice. that is a great piece of writing. And it, you, Michaela, you carry that into that last scene when Lindsay goes to sit with Lucas in the gym and you ask what he's thinking about. And he says, Keith, like you can see it on your face that you know that now. It's so beautiful. And

it did when the episode ended. I was like, wait a minute. I'm here having all these feelings about Lucas and Lindsay being like, aw, and then I'm like, wait, wait, Peyton cleaned up his mess. Nathan says he's going to go clean up his mess, but that boy's not cleaning. Lucas is not cleaning up his mess currently. I wonder if he will in 5'10,

which we shall see. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going

electric that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Michaela, when we watched the last episode that your husband wrote, and it was that speech in the gym where it's like, I'm going to be like Keith. and I'm going to love you but let you go. I loved it, but we joked about how manipulative it is, right? Where it's like, Peyton's like, I'm Keith now, I'm Keith and you're Karen now. And so every time he said in this episode I'm thinking about Keith, I loved it. I cracked up because I was like, is he talking about Keith or Keith Peyton? Keith Peyton.

Oh my God, I didn't even catch that. That's so funny. It's the next T-shirt we're making Keith Payton. All I'm saying is now that, you know, Peyton dropped the Keith bomb, now that's all Lucas is thinking about. Okay. We have like these great, we have so many of these great fan questions about Lindsay. One of them is from Lincoln and he said, you and Chad had great chemistry. What do you think made Lucas and Lindsay work as a couple?

What was it that when you got there, you like, I mean, because you guys did, there was a great chemistry. between the two of you. Did you ever spend time thinking about what that is, or are you just sort of like were experiencing being there? Oh, the only thing I can speak to is we got along like gangbusters off. You know, when the camera stopped rolling, it was just like easy with him. And I said before, like he was super,

he would just like hold my hand through all of the me learning and trying to figure it out as I went along because the only thing to do is just like jump in and go, you know yeah you just kind of have to like the train is going and you just have to like jump on off the train and so I was so appreciative of that that maybe that's what you you know are seeing I mean I certainly every time I have a love interest on any show it's like I really hope that I can connect with that person off screen yeah oh that you know that but that will just naturally play out, you know, on screen.

Did you get, like, were fans? Because you guys did have good chemistry. I mean, did fans, were you getting mail? Were you getting, like, things on message boards? Like, hate mail. Did they love you? Yeah, what was the feedback. I hated Lindsay.

Oh, no. No. People hate Lindsay. Oh! Why? I still read just like, because I got in the way of the Peyton Lucas, love story, you know? So I remember I went off to do-

Well, they don't hate Jake Jigelsky. Is this a misogyny thing? No, I don't know. He's really went after Lindsay. And when I went off to do Law & Order, I remember Mike being like, I think I should tell you this, there's like a petition circulating online. And it's these like One Tree Hill fan. Oh, no. Yes. And they were like, now she's on Law & Order, sign this petition. We want her out. We want her out. We want. And I'm like, you guys, this is literally insane. That's crazy. But it was, it was serious.

And people remember when we did the charity basketball game, we did like an autograph signing and I was saying to you, and this woman was just like staring daggers at me, like down the line. I could feel it. And a grown woman, like she's there with her teenage daughter. And she finally gets to me. And she looks me square in the eyes. And she goes, he doesn't.

doesn't love you. Ew, weird. And I was like, Oh, my God. Oh, my God. And you, Sophia, you like swooped right and you're like, okay, this is not real life. This is Michaela. Yeah.

She's amazing. She's doing her job. Yeah. So the fans are, like, there's a major backlash for sure with Lindsay. I think she just, like, stirred a lot. And I don't think people like that very much. So that was a whole other experience to have to deal with. I was like,

thank God, I'm so sorry. I'm thinking a person, you know. Wait, have you done conventions? Have you done any of the One Tree Hill conventions? No. Oh, you have to come. Listen, if you ever want to do a convention, I would love to do a Peyton Lindsay photo and just be like,

you got to take both of us. We're a package deal. Yes. Yeah. Yeah, I love to hear. I like all these. I get it because when it was Brooke and Lucas, and Peyton was the meddlesome one.

Like, the hate was so... I mean, there's still girls online that are like, that bitch ruined everything. Oh, by the way, and same for me. They're just like, you never stood a chance. You, whore. And I'm like, you all know that this was our job. Like, none of those relationships were real relationships, right?

It's all the mean, because it's like, they're really in it. They really in it, you know? So you're like, okay, I guess you're... Y'all, I want to. believe in something like that. That's why I watch Vanderpump rules. Because it is

It's real. By the way, I really do think that because you watch that with your husband and like the internet, our phones listen to everything we do, there was a point where I was like, why am I suddenly getting all this Vanderpump

stuff on my Instagram? Like, why is the algorithm serving me this? And I was like, Jeffrey! Mm-hmm. Yeah, it's the Morgans. It's you and your husband. God, I love it. You know, okay, so you know who loved the drama more than anyone in this episode is our sweet Kate Vogel. Oh, my God.

Just loved it. She went from being a wallflower to being like the instigator this episode. Yeah, she was pulling some strings. It was like, let's be nice to each other now. Maybe we should just like bitch a little bit right now. That'd be kind of fun. Yeah, she let that whole, uh, the nifference. music bit she was like all right let's go yeah but why is there a guitar in the library great question

has anyone ever seen a guitar in a library no no i mean like the whiskey i can believe the guitar is a little far-fetched yeah a little bit so odd and interesting too that like to your point she really does feel like she's hitting all the keys in this episode because she wants to know who we she wants to dig into the stuff she wants to kind of needle everybody and then she's also like maybe girls shouldn't tear each other down and we should just compliment each other

and I'm like what's happening here think up your mind babe but I did like that part it's fun to show someone else your old stomping grounds you know I mean I liked kind of this little buddy energy that Payton and Mia had

and it I mean it did hurt to randomly open up the doors of trick and look inside the gym that was so weird so weird and I remember saying like this is dumb

but it was a first time director and they wanted to make art and you know what I was feeling when I watched that I felt like they they had gone ooh when we pulled back the sides of the set

of Haley's classroom it looked really cool let's do it with the trick doors and then we'll be in the gym and we can make it our thing. Like, somebody decided it would be a cool transition. And it's like, but the bar doesn't open into the gym.

So it doesn't work the same, guys. It's like fedora hats. Like, let's all get fedora hats. Maybe we shouldn't. Maybe we should leave that in the 40s. But I think Mia, mea treating all of the women in the library as characters, allowed her to be the voice of our view.

Because she's getting to say all the things that the viewers at home wanted to say. And you know what's so interesting about you saying that? I'm just realizing that while we're in the library, Mia goes and finds Lucas's book for the first time. She's the one person who hasn't read it. Yeah. So in a way, she's really, like, she's paging through the book in real time. Yeah. What a weird sensation to have, like, Lindsay have edited the book.

and no, like intimate details about our lives. I can't believe he still used our real names in the book. Yeah, he did. Have you guys ever had someone that just knew too much about you in real life? And you're like, how do I, I don't know how to navigate this. I have no idea. You mean like a friend who, like in social circles or something, who would like out you about? Like, Lindsay's clearly a part of our world now.

but in a way that none of the conversations are natural I can never be like hey Lindsay let me talk to you about when my mom died because she's like yeah I know I edited the book about it

oh right oh I hate that I hate knowing things about people that they don't know that I know it's the worst it's why I can't talk to famous people

I'm serious I can't like if we go to an award show I can't like talk to I cannot because I'm like am I supposed to ask how you are

or what you've been up to, you're here nominated in a movie. Like, I don't, I lose the ability to speak to a person when I'm like, I know so much about you, not even necessarily by choice. And I've lost the ability to ask you questions like a normal person

and I'm going to leave now. Absolutely. Same experience. It's so frustrating. I think that's why I like check out of celebrity culture. I don't know what's going on or who anybody is anymore

because I want to be able to have an honest conversation. Yeah, I cannot. I just can't be a part of it. Yeah, I don't, I don't like to Google anybody because I don't like to know anything. No, it's too scary. Right. But I'm wondering for you, Hillary, having written your book, because it is so personal,

it's so much of your journey. Like, do you feel that way about people? I never know who's read it. You know what I mean? Like, I think I was, I didn't think it through. And so when all my teachers from middle school and high school read it and did a book club, I was like, oh, man, I talk about my sex. life in this, that's weird. Okay. And now that I'm doing more stuff at my kids' school,

I'm always kind of caught off guard by who's Reddit, because I assume that no one did, you know, like that's a weird thing. Like, why would they? And then sometimes people will tell me and I'm just like, oh, oh, you see my husband and I have basketball games. Like, you definitely know that I made him have sex with me so I can have a baby. Like, that's, it's just, I don't know. You don't think it through and you're doing it. The book thing's weird. Because it's not immediate gratification like a TV show is. Like once that is out into the world, I don't know. It's just a different format than a book. A book feels really like secret telling. Would you rather someone who you don't know who you're meeting for the first time and you're getting to know them? Would you rather that if they had read your book? Would you rather them tell you straight away? Oh, yeah. I read your book and blah, blah. Or would you rather find out later because they were like, I don't know if I should say it. And then like. definitely we have a we have a painter that lives here on our property and helps us with our animals and then like paints the landscapes and stuff and he came highly recommended through friends of ours we just needed a body on the farm to help here and um when he first moved on to the property he was like I'm going to tell you right away I listen to your audiobook and I don't want that to be weird I just wanted to know what I was getting into up here and I respect your journey but I wasn't going to be a creeper and like pretend I didn't know things about you guys that I didn't know.

And I was like, you know. That's so great. Awesome. Such a good way to handle that. Thanks for telling me. Yeah. Yeah. It made me feel much better.

But also like as a boy, sorry you had to sit through all that. That was a lot of fertility talk, my guy. Yeah. It's probably good for him. I think I reached out to you right after I read it. Both my mom and Mike gifted me that book for Mother's Day. And it was the. started a pandemic and I miscarried and I went in for my DNC Friday before Mother's Day and

your product was like so healing for me. It was awesome. Yeah, it's really brave to put all of that out there and I think you've helped a lot of people. Like you certainly helped me. I loved it so much. And I realized beyond our Fordham connection, we had the same midwife. What? You used Deborah Frank? Yes. Oh, my God. Yeah, she delivered Gabriel, my first born. So that was another just like bizarre connection. Peyton and Lindsay are the same person, like you guys. Men to be.

Sometimes you just walk the same path as someone. And it's always kind of like tricky who's going to open up first, you know? And I think with my book, that was my way of being like, you know what? I'll just open up everything first. And then, you know, people can come to me as they want to. And so sometimes people come up about the fertility stuff for sure. And then other parts are about like the Me Too stuff or, you know, or just not fitting in is another theme.

And the book thing is just really intimate because you can't fake it. You can't put that stuff out there and like gloss over it. you have to go full dark dirt. And I guess writing about yourself is very different than someone else writing about you. Because the fact that Lucas has used all his friends and people in this way made me wonder like, oh, I wonder who in my book was like, this sucks, you don't know me.

Stop talking to me. Like my manager at the candy store is he like, I really wish she wouldn't have written about this. I don't know. I don't know. I mean, yeah, we read a lot of biographies. And then you meet the people and you're like, oh, it seemed better in the book. Do you know?

I always wonder how that goes. When people write biographies, we have the people in your life that you, I mean, you're not writing unless you have something interesting to say. And you don't have something interesting to say unless things have happened to. you and things haven't happened to you unless there have been some shitty people in your life and some bad things that have happened. And so there's really only one way to tell that, which is to just be honest. And I wonder about that sometimes about just how I think about the people in my life if I ever did that, well, how they would react. I mean, did you get a lot of messages or like people in your, I don't know, family or like people that you would run into who were, did you have to

send out things like if I'm going to talk about you. You've got to sign this thing. No, I just cut whole things out. I was like, we don't need this character. We can pretend this wasn't a thing. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very

traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. every day native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream listen to burn sageburn bridges on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts

Lindsay's speech about wanting to get that day right the school shooting day you were so good in that Michaela like that made the most sense because the weight that you carry when you're writing nonfiction, every single sentence has to be the truth. And I loved what you did with that. I think that's why it takes me like five years to write books. I have another one coming out in October.

And it was just so hard to write another one because it was like, I already bled all over the dance floor. Do I want to do it again? And that speech nailed it. That's the feeling. you want to get it right for everybody yeah you crushed that yeah it was really beautiful when are you going to write a book who me yeah i don't know i hope someday i'm i was very inspired by by that i don't it's so brave to put yourself out there in that way and i don't know i don't know we'll see

what about what about you guys sophia joy do you do you have that sort of interest in writing i know you're both brilliant women with so many stories to tell. Yeah, I do for sure. I mean, I think the ADHD has made it really difficult over the years to, I have lots of essays. I have lots of chapters and things, but to really commit to putting it all together. Because I would love to write about my experience. You know, I was in a cult for 10 years. Like, I would love that that would be a really valuable experience to write about.

and the recovery that, you know, 10 years of recovery after that. So it's, there's a lot to tell. But yeah, the pressure of getting it right and everything having to be exactly real and all the people that are involved. And also like, I don't know how much I can say because there are still people and legal things in place that are, make it more complicated for the timing of that. Um, yeah. So, but I do write. I mean, I write all the time. I've got, um, I have some projects that I'm working on. Yeah, write songs. Um, yeah, there's some, there's some things in the works. There's some projects coming out. Just writing everything in code. You're like, if I sing it, then it's just a song and I can say what I want, which I have done. Yeah. The songwriting of it all, I think, is such a cool, you know, outlet. It's interesting because, you know, You know, in a similar way that you did in grad school, like, I left my BFA program with

14 actors in it because I didn't feel fulfilled and I transferred into the journalism school at USC. And I was in Annenberg student for the next couple of years before I went to work in North Carolina. And, you know, I've written op-eds and articles and I've been approached by a lot of people who are like these things that you write and like the essays essentially that you write about like the world that sometimes even you just publish on Instagram and long form or whatever like this is all a book but I think similarly for me there's a lot of pressure of how to collect and order things like um you know the way my brain is wired to like be I I, like, repel stress and planning in a way that is not super helpful.

Thank God I'm married a person who's very good at planning. Like, we yin-yang really well. I am, you know, responder in the best sort of sense of the word. So, like, in the moment, something strikes me and I say something or work on something, and then it's there. So the long form of a book feels hard. you know, I've had people on my team literally like chasing me with a book proposal for five years. And I'm like, I don't feel ready. And I think what I'm learning in this,

you know, sort of stage of my life, like being a person who's been in like active recovery and therapy for PTSD for years is realizing that some of what feels really hard about the idea of potentially writing a book is the people that I would have to talk about. Yeah. And like that feels really dangerous. And the unfortunate thing is, as, you know, and we've all experienced this, but like as a woman and on our show, I certainly went through this.

Like, something can be done to you and you still globally get made out to be the one at fault. Yeah. And it's incredibly difficult. And I just don't know. I haven't really weighed like what's worth it in terms of do I think there's important stories to tell and lessons and, you know, modalities of recovery that would be really beautiful to put on a page. Yes.

And like, do I want to continue getting dragged for having survived something? that happened to me in my early 20s and something that happened to me in my 30s. Like, I don't know. It sucks to sort of go through that. Like, women don't get the Lucas Scott treatment, unfortunately. Now that you guys are talking about all of this, like, that's the theme of the episode. It is pointed that we go back to the scene of the school shooting where Peyton is bleeding out. And, you know, Jimmy and Keith died just.

that hallway that we see at the end of the episode. To revisit trauma, to write about it is to revisit it. And to read about it is to revisit it. And so there's no moving forward for this group of women until we revisit the trauma. And that sucks. But we've got this little like elf named Mia that's like, come on. take me on the journey and then not only do we have to do it for

I mean we have to talk about the Brooke and Victoria stuff because that was just so fucking awesome um Haley doesn't know she's going to have to do it with the nanny carry stuff but it's coming Peyton's obviously doing it and then Lindsay gets brought into it

by having to talk about her trauma yeah you know is that something that makes us like each other is it that we all have to just like cut ourselves open for us to like connect i think so i think it's when you open yourself up i think that's true for life when you reveal truly your your deepest vulnerability your like your deepest self i think that's when you can then connect right i think that's what happens between Peyton and and Lindsay during this episode it's that moment where it just kind of blows up but it blows up in kind of a beautiful way because we reveal so much about what we've been

through. I mean, I know what you've been through, but it's, or my character, you know, knows what you've been through, but from the pages of a book, it's like a different perspective, right? Yeah, to humanize someone, it's like so easy to dislike somebody that you can sort of caricature rise in your brain, but to actually see them opened up before you with their wounds. It takes it to another level. It's just you can't, you can't compartmentalize people into that space anymore, you know. Do you feel like because Lindsay had all the information and Peyton didn't, like Lindsay having just lost her father, had this expectation like, oh, no, Peyton and I are

going to connect. We have so much in common. We love the same boy. We both have parents that have died from cancer. I like Tree Hill. She lived in, you know, like there's so many things to connect on. And when you think you think you're going to be friends with someone and then it doesn't work out, it hurts so much worse. Yeah. Did you have to make a decision about that, Michaela? When you came in the, I'm trying to remember your first episode, did you know that Peyton was back? Like, was it a shock or did you go in like wanting to like her and expecting that? Or did you have to make a decision about that?

I think it sounds so creepy, but it's like she was so close to that book, right? editing it to so deep in those pages and in those stories that I think she really truly grew to love Peyton's character. But it's what a confusing relationship to then be with this guy and know all of this. Oh, that would hurt so bad. So I'm sure there was just like an instant feeling of insecurity and really wanting to connect, but feeling that wall. Wall is a subtle way to put it.

Spiky wall. It's like the spiky walls in Indiana Jones that are just closing. It's funny. I was like, to me it feels like a moat with crocodiles in it. Yeah. But then, you know, you're so in the thick of our world. You know, you know everything about our world. And then here comes Tim, who is maybe not someone.

that Lindsay doesn't necessarily like knew about. Yeah. Yeah, I doubt Lucas wrote about him. He's not in the book. No, he's not in the book. He's so great in this episode. Brett is so funny. But he broke my heart in the end, that look, that one look.

I mean, he is so talented. The fact that he could be making a joke and then in one second, just turn his head and look at you and say nobody hangs out anymore. Or nobody comes back to, I don't even know what he said. Nobody keeps in touch anymore. Yes. Yeah. Just looking at his eyes.

and made me really emotional. And the spectrum he takes us on to, you know, the depth of that moment. And then the pure, gorgeous comedy of him being in the, coming in the door and me trying to run past him and him picking me up. Oh, it's so good to see you and hugging me. It's brilliant. I was shrieking laughing. That was so funny.

And I remember it. Like I could feel it in my body. I remember him putting his arms around me and picking me up. and just flailing my arms and legs, like, trying to get away from him. And really having to not break, to not, like, screw up the scene. You know, like, do not laugh, right? I wanted to laugh so bad. It was so funny. He really, he really crushed it. Yeah. When you're like, no one's eating me. And he's like, well, you're just like, no. No. No. No. No.

I love that. But I also love meeting people from my partner's past. Like, that's fun to be like, yeah, you were to school with this guy? Hmm. Interesting. Interesting. I'd like to know more about this situation. Yeah.

Yeah. Did you ever go back to your husband's hometown? Where's, where's Mike from? Okay. Mike is kind of from all over. He's moved around a ton. So both of his parents are actors and ended up. teaching acting.

Oh, cool. They moved around a ton. They were regional theater actors. So that's why he doesn't hate actors. Very much understands the world. What a prince. Lovely way. But yeah, so he lived in Florida and Texas and Massachusetts in Ohio.

And his parents finally were like, okay, we need some like consistency in our lives. We have three young boys. So they went to school and taught. ended up teaching at western michigan oh right on in the theater department yeah so they're like acting teachers so so mike fully he started as an actor there's a headshot floating around that oh a headshot hallelujah oh my god have you taken him back to your hometown yeah for sure for sure he's been to rhode island a bunch um yeah yeah yeah do you take him to like a football game You know, I wasn't so much. Like, I was such an artsy kid in high school. It was such a wallflower and a late bloomer. I mean, what drew me to theater was because I was so shy that it was acting that allowed me to finally, like, let go of my inhibitions and let me be. You know, it's like, it's so funny. It's sort of a misconception that all actors are just like these loud, like, charismatic.

Yeah, that was not me. I was like, I'm just going to hide back here and hopefully nobody will see me. But when I was acting, it was freedom, you know? Yeah. That's what, that's how I got pulled into it. Wow. That's awesome. Oh, I love that about Mike.

I didn't know that. Yeah. It's like this little all over, which it also helped me with this business where you just never know what's around any corner. You never know. I grew up in the same place. there was just like the security and the safety of that throughout my childhood. And Mike moved around so much that it has given me a lot of peace with my kids and

moving and like, you know, when we went to do the village and we just like uprooted and we're like, okay, we're going to hunker down in Brooklyn. Yeah. Even with that pilot I shot last summer because you never know, right? You never know. Yeah. And I'm moving to New Mexico and I have to like just bring. bring my kids down there and do that.

But seeing Mike and seeing who he is as a person, I'm like, okay, it's going to be okay. That's all right. Yeah, they're going to be fine. They'll learn so much. So what was your backstory for Lindsay, though? Because, you know, again, she knows everything about all of us. The show takes place in our world. Did you have to balance that and be like, okay, well, who's this chick?

I think we all, like, leaned on our real life experiences. There's so much Sophia and Brooke. and Joy and Haley and obviously, you know, I'm a nightmare too. Like Peyton, what did you set up for Lindsay as you started to flesh her out, especially in this episode with all the talk about your dad? Yeah. Well, it starts to really get interesting because you learn a lot more about Lindsay in this episode in that moment. Up to this point, you don't really know, right?

Yeah, yeah. What her deal is. And it was all such a new, experience again i'm like i'm just trying to figure out what the tape on the floor is about like trying to it was so much to put together and every script you're getting like these little pieces of information to kind of inform you of like who this person is yeah this was the first episode where we really got to crack into what she's been through and that trauma that and maybe why, like how she's still grieving and still dealing with it and hasn't fully dealt with it.

I mean, I don't know that you can fully deal with something like that, right? Like, it's always going to be there. And obviously, this relationship with her father was so close and so painful to lose him in such a brutal way, right? So it's like that kind of informed me of when it had to go into that kind of nasty below the belt stuff. It was like, she's really coming from a place of deep pain, right? And like, here's this guy that is like, I need this guy.

I need this relationship. You two are trauma bonded. Just like Lucas and Payton. Why does this dude show up every time someone's parent dies? That's messed up. Man. Oh, boy. That's deja vuie.

Like, ooh, I just got like goose pimples on my arms. because I was like, wait a second, this is all ringing a bell. As you tell me this story, I'm like, yeah, yeah, that does sound familiar. I do need that guy because he came in like Superman when I was at my lowest. Yeah, the stakes are so high. Like, I'm going to lose this person that I can't lose this person. I lost that person. I cannot lose this.

Yeah. Yes. Oh, I hate this. The layer of guilt right now. is so thick I did like that we got drunker and drunker as the episode went on. Do you guys remember having to play that

trying to remember like what scenes we had been drinking and which scenes we hadn't? Were we just drinking in real life at this point? Were they just water bottles full of vodka on set? I remember it was... Cordacious as moonshine. Oh, it's Halloween! We were all like, can we get how? Can we wrap so we can go

yeah I totally forgot about that yes there was no party oh yeah Hillary you must have been dying to get out of there because you probably had a huge party waiting no this was the first year I didn't throw a party because I was just oh everything at work was shitty and I was just like I'm throwing a party for me mad now now you made me mad um and our boss was in town there was no way I was throwing a party oh yeah gross but there is there is like such a weird technical thing Of that, like, when Peyton brings Brooke the bottle of liquor she finds, you know, I'm sitting there like reading the magazine in the stacks of books, like to figure out, okay, if we start drinking in scene seven, how drunk is everyone in every scene? Because we shoot all the scenes

out of order. That is such a mental thing to do. Scripty is supposed to keep track of that for us. don't remember if, I mean, if it was Mike Leone, I'm sure he was. So hard. How weird was that conversation about cannibalism? Ew, what the heck? Like, they ran out a runway. They just couldn't figure out what to write anymore. They ran out. I have in caps. Why are we having a cannibal conversation? Now it's ghosts. Now it's Jimmy and Keith. Like, again, the whiplash. Yeah. Yeah. I would make jerky out of their love handles. Michaela, you deserve an award for that. How did you deliver that line? Oh, my God.

Could snack on that for days. I was like, give her on your real. Give her a trophy. Give her something. Uh-huh. It's so weird. And then the joke about like I'd be a vampire, it just kept going. Yes.

It's your neck. And I was like, are we still? We're still talking about this. Well, also when you were like, when you said the neck thing to me, I was like, are we going to kiss? Like, what's happening? What is going on? What happens in the library stays.

in the library. It was just like a lot of weird sexual energy in a cannibal talk. And I was like, this makes me feel very uncomfortable. No, that was weird. I loved the Brooke Peyton stuff in this episode because true friendship is when your friends made an ass of themselves and you still sit with them. And the fact that Brooke stuck by Peyton, even after she went real dark, she didn't have to say anything. She didn't accept the behavior. It was like, no, you're awful. You f***ed up, hard. I'm still

going to go sit over here in this stack of books with you. And I'm not going to leave you alone. I'm just going to make sure you're okay. Yeah. Yeah. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, burn bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer. because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And I liked, too, that we got to have a bit of an arc because much like Lindsay gets to express that she knows and wants to meet the Peyton from the book. Brooke is best friends with Peyton from the book and says, I don't know you to be this person. Like, I know you to take the high road. So that later when Lindsay is talking about Peyton's morality and her noble nature, it's very cool that it tracks

from Peyton's oldest friend to the newest woman in her life who all in their own way get to. to say, like, what are you doing, buddy? Don't be messy. Don't be messy. Well, I also loved that Brooke finally got to voice all this stuff about her mom. That was so great. And it was so uncomfortable to watch everyone pushing you and pushing you and pushing you.

And you just kind of standing firm. And like, listen, this is my choice. I'm choosing this because for all the reasons that you explain it was sweet yeah well I liked to

being able to express her needs and say even if it's for the wrong reasons I don't want to lose it and the thing that really hit me that I didn't remember the verbiage of it and hearing it back

like absolutely broke my heart is that what I had to say as Brooke was, I wanted to be seen by my mom and maybe loved. That wrecked me. Like, if she can see me, then I have a chance. I can take it or leave it on the love.

And it's like, oh my God, that's so, that just hurts, man. And to be able to get into it and to see the bigger depth of how tied to her mom she feels now, and how scared she is that maybe without her mom she wouldn't have made it.

Like, it's, you really get to see the layers in this episode and that felt really nice. Well, it almost makes up for the cannibalism talk. Oh my God, that's it. How do two things live in the same episode? Oh, God. It was foreshadowing for the heart falling out of the, you know, cooler and the dog eating.

Oh, yeah. Okay, so we have to end with that. So do you guys remember when we would get made fun of on the soup. Yeah. Michaela, were you ever the target? I've been the target many a time. I feel like I was.

I was definitely in some episodes that got, they got hit on the soup. I can't believe the fake music video at the end of this episode wasn't on the soup. It might have been on the soup. The whole speech that they give about, yeah, people on the internet are people who can't create anything. Oh, my gosh, I'm so glad you brought this up.

Oh, dying. The internet's just for, porn and complaining. Yeah, don't you know what people do? Oh, I can't. I can't. I knew exactly what it was. It was so transparent and so ridiculous. Yeah, it was fun to watch back all these years later like, my guy. Wow. No one's fooled. We know what you're saying here. Yeah, our show got made fun of, which was great press for us. What are we bitching about? Sure was. You are all these years later with like, legit, like new fans. fans that are watching

and jump. It's been wild. Yeah. Yeah, it's amazing. Like the show that I would basically like learn how to do on camera acting

would just like follow me. That's it. You don't think that the thing that you do at like 22, 23 years old is going to be the shit that lives forever. Yeah. The legacy.

Turns out it is. Yeah. You guys to watch this. I really, I bow down to you and like revisiting these episodes from so long ago. It's a head trip. Well, every episode we pick our honorable mention.

I think my honorable mention is the not so subtle internet shade. What was your honorable mention for the episode, Michaela? There's a moment that made me L.O.L. And it was when Joy is like falling us both out because we're both having bad behavior. and she's playing solitaire and you go back to her solitaire and you're like so aggressively

it made me laugh so hard that was that and the whole pizza toppings and Sophia and Brooke it was so funny but no mushroom no mushroom

that made me laugh a lot Brett Claywell gets my honorable mention he's so good yeah I think I would throw it to Brett as well, but I will also say, and maybe we've said it already this season, and I just don't remember because it's the middle of the night and I'm delirious, but I got really excited when I got to be like, I'm dying to see teacher girls classroom. I was like, we've gone

from tutor girl to teacher girl. And I got so excited about that little drop. And then I thought, have we said this before? I don't know, but if not, that would tie. I don't remember it. No, I don't think so. I think that was the debut. Yeah, I love that. All right, ladies. Let's spin our wheel. Every week we pick a most likely to, Michaela, and we have to pick a character that is most likely to do this thing, but also, like, a real life member of our gang. All right, who is most likely to elope in Vegas? Peyton and Lucas tried and then change their mind.

Yeah. So not us, because we couldn't go through with it. Does anyone get super fast married on the show? Other than Nathan and Ely? Yeah. Yeah, I think that's probably the answer, Nathan and Ely. Yeah, I think that that really tracks. They're sure things.

So what's the risk, right? Michaela, thank you so, so much for hanging out with us for two full episodes. We miss you. What a joy to be with you guys again, this little reunion. This was so cool. Thanks for having me. So great to see you. Oh, nice.

Yeah. And if anyone's mean to you on the internet, just send them to us. We'll kick their ass. Thank you. We'll kick them in the digital shin. The digital shin. All right. Next episode is season five, episode 10, running to stand still.

I hope we can all get along in the sandbox. Oh, boy. We'll see you next week. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's or email us at drama queens at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.