Drama Queens - Fairy Tales & Lamps • EP107

Episode Date: August 9, 2021

The Drama Queens explore this episode and give you an in-depth analysis. We're discovering that Brooke and Peyton are very much on their own in this world. Why is Brooke so obsessed with having a boyfriend and needing attention? Why does Peyton keep giving pieces of her heart to the wrong people?  Let’s go behind the scenes on Lucas & Peyton's long awaited kiss. Find out how Hilarie was affected by it and the impact of a sisterhood on set during her first intimate scene. Also, Joy & Chad’s real-life night alone on a rooftop and find out how Sophia was almost the next Britney Spears! Don't miss the shrewd, empowering advice Lee Norris gave one of the Drama Queens and, finally, Joy asks this crucial question: Is ___________ the real life "Lucas"?! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion with your tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Hey, welcome back. Episode 7. Thanks for joining us. This is Drama Queens. We are talking about episode 7 of One Tree Hill, Life in a Glass House, air date November 4th, 2003. The synopsis of this episode is, this is the night that Dan and Deb's annual basketball appreciation party, which what? Spurs, old memories and new feelings.

Feelings. Can we start by saying, though, that Joy wanted to retitle this episode, LAMPS? Why are there so many? I want some fan out there to watch this episode and count how many fricking lamps. I don't understand why. Is it always in every episode? And I'm just seeing it now? I don't know.

This felt real lamp heavy. For sure. Karen's Cafe was like lamp, like, I don't need. What's the word? like lamp purgatory they just go there to hang out it was like going in like a like a cool quirky old vintage store where there's just like lamps for sale everywhere except it's supposed to be a business yeah it's super weird lamps everywhere a lot of ambient lighting in this episode which is good because we had some big feelings you don't want to have big feelings

and like overhead lighting that's gross that's true no there you know what look let's talk about the big star of the episode brook Because this was Brooke's episode, fully Brooks episode. And I have all kinds of questions about her motivation and what she was dealing with and like why did she, I mean, okay, my first, well, do we start the beginning or do we just dive into like, no, get in. Just dig in. What's great about this is that Brooke is really pushing the story forward in so many ways because the last episode that we saw was kind of as we discussed a reintroduction. of a lot of the characters and the dynamics and just reminding everyone where we all are. But we needed something to start pushing everything in a new direction.

And they were like, the writers, I guess, just were like, Brooke, Brooke's got to do it. And so, you know, we were all in our different spots. But nothing would have happened if Brooke hadn't gotten in there and started moving everything around. But I was kind of shocked for the loyal friend that Brooke has established herself to be, that she would suddenly be manipulating everything so that she could get time with she could get Lucas and get Peyton out of the way um I don't know can you just tell us a little bit about where you were with her then oh yeah I mean God I just like so cringy this whole episode is cringy for you

oh yeah I hated this you got to shake it off it's not real baby it's not real I know I still hate it I'm just like oh god it's atrocious um but you know you bring up a great point because Brooke is a device in this episode and that's something you know we talked about this a few episodes back how sometimes you have to suspend disbelief sometimes you have to do things you may not necessarily agree with to drive the story so I understood that Brooke was sort of yeah she was like a big shiny red truck in this episode just literally but what kind of truck is the question i mean i i'm i'm thinking like a really shiny mac truck like something that really causes devastation yeah yeah like sparkly red paint um oh yeah but that was a thing i needed to wrap my head

around and and also such an interesting thing you know this was our seventh episode this was my seventh episode ever as an actor on television yeah and and to be a kid and to really be bothered by my character's behavior, but also have, you know, our creators and the director say, you are the literal embodiment of a pot stirrer in this episode. We need the drama. We need the tension. Yeah.

What I had to lean into to make it make sense, bridging that gap, was figuring out where her motivation came from, you know, thinking about being, a 16-year-old girl and really having a crush on someone who you're afraid might like your best friend, your best friend who already has a boyfriend. And the only place you've ever been taught to feel good about yourself is when you're getting validated by other people's attention. Like that was Brooke's whole thing. Boy's attention, yeah.

Yeah. Like it was the only thing that mattered in her household, in this place, in that world. And so I really had to try to motivate this bad behavior by a desperate need for someone to say, I pick you. And she never got it. So it was an episode where she just kept getting rejected and then, you know, kept drinking her sorrows away and just like really by the end of it had embarrassed herself and felt terrible. I feel terrible even thinking about it now. But, okay, so let's be real here, though, because we've established backstory that we've never gotten to see,

that Peyton and Nathan do this all the time. All the time, yeah. Right? So it kind of isn't so bad when you take that in a consideration because it's like, oh, here we go again. Like, I've had those friends. Let me just make this happen faster this time.

Yeah, like you're going to do this for the 19th time this year. Yeah. Right. It softens the blow little bit. Well, you're right. And there is a real moment where you actually see Brooks feelings when Peyton and Nathan are talking and you're both basically like, butt out, you're being horrible.

And she's kind of, that is the thing of like, you guys always do this. And then in that moment when she realizes Peyton might actually like Lucas and isn't using him as a pawn to make Nathan jealous and maybe everything is much less stable than Brooke understands in this high school world of roles and behaviors that she's come to understand how to be a part of, you know, that, that made me so sad when I looked at you and said, or are you, I didn't realize you were in my way or are you finally admitted? I was like, oh, God, it's all so horrible. She's terrified. But like when we were in high school for real, okay, my friends and I would kiss the same boys and like then call each other on the

phone later and laugh about it. Like there was one weekend where we all kissed Jimmy a scene, you know? Oh my God, you're so progressive. Jimmy Azine had like a pickup truck and it would pull up in front of your house. And if your dad didn't chase him off with a baseball bat like mine, you'd go out, you'd kiss Jimmy a scene, and you'd come back in and then call your friends. And he's going to die when he knows that I've called him out. But everyone kissed Jimmy a scene. Hi, Jimmy. And so it makes sense to me because that was my real life experience. that it's like, oh, yeah, we like the same kinds of boys. Like, we all, like, loved Josh Hartnett and Heath Ledger in high school.

Oh, yeah. You know what I mean? So, like, we all love the same kind of boys. It makes sense that Peyton and Brooke would like the same boys. And it's a playful competition until that moment where it's not. And then it's like, oh, I might have caught feelings. That's embarrassing, you know? Yeah, this is the episode where everyone's feelings

feel very real. Really real. And hurt. Yeah. Oh, man. I liked, I just liked this for Brooke. I know you're cringy, but for me, as an actor, looking at this, it's such a good buildup for where she's going, for understanding the complexities.

I mean, talk about a multidimensional character, which again, a testament to you as an actress because it would have been really easy to just play it on that one level. But you really see Brooke's cry for help, just wanting a parent and wanting like, I mean, now that we know who Victoria is, like, you know, it makes perfect sense. It totally does. So I really liked this episode for Brooke a lot. It was a moment you just love to hate. It's like, no, no, don't do it because you love her. So it's kind of okay that she's being so insane.

Um, let's get into the haley of it all, though, because the whole, like, like, be careful, be careful, be careful. Is the most irritating shit in the world when you're hearing it. Yeah. But sometimes you should listen when people tell you to be careful and you're young and you don't know what you're doing in relationships. That's right. It's right, girls, you know. Girls, it's hard to know. It's hard to know.

Listen, if there are, if you have three friends that say red flag, rule of thumb, It's a red flag. You know, one friend could be manipulative. Two friends could be colluding. Three friends. That's the girl code. That's a nice goalpost because you're right. One person could be projecting their own experience onto your experience, you know.

But when a collective of people. When there's a vote. When there's a quorum. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to listen to, though. I mean, that for all of my major relationships, I had people. um tell me red flag um red flag i'm concerned i'm concerned are you sure are you sure and i was just

so stubborn and you know determined that like i knew i i just knew what i was doing you know so it's hard to listen to fairy tales joy we're fed the fairy tales where it's like beauty and the beast you know we we are told from a very young age like you can fix them this will be a fun project and then you'll be the boss then you'll be the queen because you did the hard thing you know yeah and so in this episode all the girls are kind of battling with that their versions of fairy tales you know you kiss you kiss the prince and it's not happily ever after then he gets weird and like starts talking about forever you know like what's happening that's yeah that is a great point and you know what's interesting joy is like as you're saying that

I'm going, mm-hmm, same. My face is very hot. Yep. And what's interesting about it is that in a way, I think about it in particular for the three of us going through those real-life trials and tribulations together while selling a fairy tale on screen. Yeah. Like you had Nathan and Haley on screen.

Yes. And people used to come up, I mean, fans would come up to me all the time and say, I just hope But one day I have a relationship like Nathan and Haley, and I was like, I don't want to burst your bubble, but I'm also thinking that's not, it doesn't exist, it's not real. It was written by writers in a, in a studio, but I mean, I don't know. There's also, they went through their own, their own trials. I think it was the concept of sticking, sticking through it together, no matter what. Like, doesn't he get kidnapped at some point?

Like, is that, I mean, come on. Like, yes, obviously. Guys, I can't wait for that future. One day, if Jeffrey ever gets kidnapped, I hope you go. I know. But it's true. You need your friends. I mean, I was, do you remember that guy was engaged to you in Wilmington? The T-shirt maker? I didn't know we were going to be allowed to talk about that. guys we all did it i know we all did but moira was so worried about me she was like

rounding up people like this is not good yeah no he can't come in the trailer i feel like he was banned from the hair and makeup trailer he might have been i don't know i mean he you know whatever he's a sweet guy and i obviously have no hard feelings but like and i'm i'm glad that that one didn't work out and you know i've now i have my daughter and lots of other amazing things happen in my life but um i mean we we make mistakes because we're like trying to figure it out and you need friends around you to tell you sorry sophia to me to cut you off no you no by the way i'm just thrilled we're talking about this i didn't know what was there i didn't know we would ever get here but like you know what i think about too is how desperately

we all wanted to prove that we were these like professional adults and the easiest way to do that when you're 22 is to be like look at me i'm in a grown-up relationship and i've signed a lease and i've bought real furniture that didn't you know it didn't come out of a box like we've got a mortgage yeah we were all like trying to establish our things and i have to tell you the sweetest thing that lee norris said to me years ago that i really think applies to all of us when i realize that you know we've all been asked big questions by men we decided we're not our people lee said to me he was like you know it's really interesting how guys can like date all their dream girls before they settle down and people say good for you but you ladies get get treated

like you don't deserve the same um my god process of kind of trial figuring it out and he said i wish i don't know if he even remember this we were like a little tipsy and having a very emotional conversation about our friendship and he said i wish that for you and i i apply this to all of us rather than people saying like judging your personal life our personal lives people were like wow they must be so special that all these guys have tried to get them to marry them right like that was his whole thing is he was just what's our running tally here are we at a dozen engagements i'm like what do y'all do with your rings like where are they Hillary do you have a box like yeah no i've got a box i've got a i've got a treasure trove but that makes so much sense it's like you look at the clonies of the

world. Yeah. And they are just so lauded for like, oh, well, they've been with everyone and they found the one. Yeah. But a girl that's had three boyfriends. Until she was perfect. And it's like, well, we didn't settle either. What's happening? Yeah. Yeah. Guys, we're so fabulous. People want to marry us. That's all that I'm saying here. Okay. So congrats to your first fiancé, Joy. Thank you. Yes. He saw. He always knew. He was the practice fiancee. In the future, I think maybe we should just buy jewelry for each other and be a little more picky with men? That would be my recommendation to all the young women listening. Like, give jewelry to your friends and be patient. Romantic friendships are the best because all of the riffraff that goes along with the romance is taken out. You don't have to

put out. It's just you surprise one another and you have beautiful meals with each other. Romantic friendships are the way to go. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I remember years ago I took a fabulous trip to Europe with a really good friend of mine and she'd like had a really rough time and had lost her job and was just trying to figure out what was next and I was like, you're coming on this trip with me and on this trip, I'm your Plata

Cousman. I'm paying for everything. And we went out to like fancy dinners and had champagne and we had this like fabulous time and we just cackled laughing about how we were probably having a better time than so many of the couples around who like go with their phones. So yeah, I'm a big fan of an in love platonic friendship. Lucas and Haley have like a really lovely platonic friendship that I can't understand why they never hooked you two up because the chemistry's there. But that moment at the end, even the moment at the beginning where Lucas tells her it's okay. Like I get it.

You know, those moments that you two keep sharing, one another. There's a physical proximity that tells the story of how long you guys have been friends because that's not, you know, when you talk close, when you touch another person in your teenage years, that's an intimacy that is so lovely in friendship, but also like rare between boys and girls. So I love that they never took it into romance territory, but boy, it looked like it came close in this episode. It seemed like they could have grown up and been a good match for each other as adults, maybe, you know? But, you know, a lot of people don't know this.

Actually, I don't know if you guys know this, but when I first got to Wilmington and we were filming our first episode, we, there was some party at the beach. I don't remember whose house it was. It might have been James's house or something. When all the boys rented the house together? Yeah. Yeah. So I went and, um,

You were there too, Sov. I don't know if you, I don't remember if you were there or not Hillary, but it was late. And I was out on the roof because I'm such an introvert. This is what I do at parties. Like, I'm hang out and then I'm like, oh, it's too many people. And I go stand in the bathroom for 20 minutes by myself. So there was a window open and a rooftop. So I went out on the roof.

And I was sitting out there and just kind of like taking a deep breath in and getting some fresh air. And Chad came out and sat down next to me. And we hadn't really gotten a chance to spend time together. at all. I mean, we had our screen test and then, you know, ran into each other in hallways and things. But we sat down the roof and we just were like hanging out, talking about life, talking about our friends and people that we had grown up with. And my best friend at the time from high school had been a boy. And so I was really comfortable having that sort of platonic friendship. It didn't feel weird or awkward to me. And I just remember that.

That set a tone for us, and we sat out there for like an hour, just talking. And it really set a foundation for us on set in the future from that point forward that, like, we, he was always, he always just felt like my, like, my dip little brother. You know what I mean? Yeah. He was like, always goofy and, like, messing around and doing pranks and all this stuff. But, but I really cared about him. I really, like, I really had a big heart for him from that, just that one night sitting out. I was like, oh, you know, buddy, buddy, he had his dog living in that house.

You know what is also so sweet about thinking about that? I feel like I can picture it. I remember that house, all those boys had my God. We went to garden the front yard of that house. So just for you guys at home, all the boys, so like Brett Claywell and James and Chad. And did anyone else live in that house with them? Did Lee live there? I don't think he did because he was going back and forth from week four.

Maybe he would crash there. I think there was one other guy. There's not, maybe one of the basketball players. One of basketball players. But they all rented this house at the beach together and it was not like a beach house. It was made out of like old brick. It had like gargoyles and shit on it. And it had those really long overhangs. So it was always dark inside.

Yeah. It was architecturally the weirdest thing I've ever seen on the beach. It didn't match anything else. No. And we went to the hardware store one day. Yeah. We were like, these boys need to get it together. They needed a mop.

And we planted plants. We put flowers in. And we like, made the beds. Because they had all these big stone urns. Oh, God. But they didn't have any, like, plants. So the place looked terrifying. It looked haunted.

It looked super haunted. But it's so sweet because I remember that. And I remember, like, all of us kind of milling around trying to, you know, figure out what was going on. And picturing you, too, having that conversation. It makes me think about that sweet last scene in the episode. where Haley's crying and Lucas comes and sits next to her

and I will say I always had those moments watching it being like this is going to be the moment when they kiss but I love in hindsight that they never crossed the boundary for the characters because you guys were able to model

a genuine kind friendship between a teenage boy and a teenage girl and that was really rare that was really rare on TV that people didn't you know cross a hormonal line at one point or another and you guys never did in a show that lasted nine years too you know you'd think at some point yeah but no so the scene where we uh I go to his bedroom and I'm like tying the tie so I had to learn

how to tie a tie because I'd never had to learn that don't you no it's it's a harder it's it was harder. I mean, I'm glad I did it on my neck and then put it on him because we originally, it was originally blocked so that he would stand in front of the closet mirror or whatever, wherever the mirror was. And I was going to come up behind him and tie the tie around his neck. And it was so awkward. I could not figure it out. It was so awkward. So we were just like, okay, just put it around your neck and tie it on your own neck and then put it on him. So that's, that worked. But that was the first. watching that episode, this was the first time I really saw Haley as, she's like a little mini-adult, like really just try. She was actually so much more confident than I actually was, because I was a mini-adult, but I was a mini-adult facade, deeply insecure on the inside. And it was cool to see Haley, like, she was kind of badass. She was a tough girl. She was really quick in this episode. Like, the stuff in the car with Peyton, you know, all her, like, quips with, you know, Nathan. with everybody. She's so fast, which is counter to Peyton, who is like sullen and very slow

and very like, I'm going to take my time. But I don't know that she's quippy in these first few episodes. It's like there's, at least in her conversations with Haley, it's like I'm going to take the slow beat because I'm admitting something that is not comfortable. And Haley's so sharp I trust Haley. She seems to trust Haley in this episode all of a sudden. I think Peyton is like one of those kids. I remember seeing like an episode of Law and Order SVU

where there was like a girl that had been abused when she was younger. So the result as an adult was that she latched on to people really fast. And like was like, do you love me? I'm going to give you like a really important piece of me. And I'm just going to trust that you don't mess it up. And, of course, like, everybody messes it up. I think Peyton does that. It's like, hey, do you want to know my deepest, darkest secrets?

I know we just met, you know? There's a, there's like an abused kid syndrome in there. And so, yeah, I think she very quickly is like, well, Brooks being weird. Are you my, it's that book. Are you my mother? Yeah. Are you my best friend? Are you my best friend?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We're all that way, though, when we're little, aren't we? Like, are you? Is it you? Are we going to be friends till we're 90? Is it you?

Maybe. And I think especially for kids, and I think this is something that, you know, Brooke and Peyton in particular shared was the narrative of absent parents. You know, like Haley, we didn't see the family, but it was known that Haley came from this big family. And everyone really loved each other. And with Peyton's mom having passed and dad always being away and Brooks' parents, like always being on a business trip, and her just being alone, you know, it's no wonder that each of us is seeking safety and validation somewhere. You're trying to figure out where you can have a safe friendship. And I'm like,

if I could just get a boy to love me, then maybe I would be okay. If I can just get a boy to love me. The other comfort thing in this, you know, for people who are adrift like the girls are, Karen, who has seemingly been adrift in her own hometown for the last 16, 17 years, running into Whitey at the party and him reminding her of the girl she was and, like, being like, I'm proud of you was such a, it was a really lovely moment. And I loved that they had the sense to put in his dialogue a reference to how happy it's been making him to see her at the gym again. You know, watching Lucas play, because it makes you realize that even though as an audience, we haven't seen them have a moment at a basketball game, it gives you the emotional payoff of learning that Whitey's been tracking Karen being there. And it's so, it's just lovely.

And the compliment that he gives her about raising a good young man. Yeah. I mean, that's, as a mom, like when you're, when somebody comes up and tells you, like, hey, you did a really. good job. Your kid's amazing. It's like, there's no greater compliment you could possibly give me. Do you guys stay in touch with your teachers? Do you talk to your teachers? No, do you? Oh my God. From high school? I talk to two of my favorite teachers. Yeah. That's awesome. It's, I just did a Zoom. I never knew that was an option. Okay. Let me tell you a little trick. All the teachers are parts of book clubs, right? Or they have like, they don't call them drinking clubs, but they're drinking. I know what you guys are

up to at home. It's like they all, like have their once a month meeting where they met at a winery and they like discuss a topic. And so because everyone's been doing it over Zoom, I did a meeting with like my teachers from fourth grade through graduation and just like wept the whole time because these people, they don't, they don't, maybe they do understand that they're like your parents for a little while. You know, like they shape you in a way that's forever. And, you know, you want to just, like, then pick their brain about everything ever. And so I love that Whitey is that person in our show.

I wish we had more teachers like that in our show. Yeah. Because, like, my English teacher, my U.S. history teachers, my government teacher, like, all those teachers were so vital. And we've got Whitey, but, like, we could have done more. We could have had a chick teacher. That would have been cool. That would have been nice.

Haley became that later for a half, I think. But it would have been nice to see that influence. It would have been nice to see that influence in her life. Yeah, especially to know who made her so passionate about tutoring and everything would have been cool. Yeah. Yeah. What's the backstory? Did you make one up?

Oh, did you? I might have. I don't know. I just figured like she's really smart and she likes helping people. And especially as a sibling in a big family, you get used to learning how to help and lend a hand all the time. so it probably was super second nature to her and she could make some money. Give me more money.

Kids from big families. It's like, sorry kids. I can't give you guys all an allowance. Like, go get a job. So. That tracks. I like that. She's an entrepreneur.

I like it. Yeah. Can we talk about Deb and Karen? Oh, so good. More of this. I love this relationship. This dynamic is so great. I wonder if they planned that all along

or if they just saw like how Moira and Barbara were playing it and they were like, okay, we'll do this now. You know, so much that season one was fly by the seat of our pants because all the stuff that they had planned kind of got thrown out the window because now we were in competition

with all these other teen dramas, like the OC and it was like, what was some of the stuff they had planned? Do you know things? Babe, all I know is that everything was supposed to be narrated by one. talking to Camilla. It was supposed to be eight-mile is what I was told.

And so kind of these more like juicy, dramatic narratives were, you know, I think the element of having like two sexy moms became a thing because Desperate Housewives was a very big show, you know?

The moms on the OC were super sexy. And so they're like, well, let's like bring in these like hot moms that then become friends and then later can be frenemies, you know, that building that arc. But watching these two, women work together. It's like, why would we ever split this up? These two are amazing. Well, they have such great chemistry. You know? And to see that and to see the

the gentle nature that they both apply to what could be a very fraught interaction, it's just so good. I want more of it all the time. And to watch Dan Scott, watch them. And he can't, It's so genuine what he's seeing that he's frozen and he can't, like, interject with some shitty quip. Yeah. You know? Why do you think he didn't rush over there to break it up? Stop it. Why did he walk away?

He actually made the choice to, we have to ask Paul this when we happen on the show because it's such a, that's kind of a really big moment to just leave them alone instead of trying to interject and control everything. Deb outgamed him. I'm telling you, man, she wears the pants. Oh, yeah, for sure. it's it's this is her punishment for his behavior at that party last week you know it's like you know what you embarrassed me you misbehaved i am going to make an example out of you this party and now all your friends are going to watch me not only invite them but give them preferential treatment while they're here you know it's it's a power leading by example i mean it's a power play but like

you were saying when we were watching there's an element of leading by example that she does that is really nice to see instead of typical television everybody loves Raymond housewives where they're just barking orders and always telling him what's wrong and what's due and how to fix it. Dan, why can't you just be nice, you know? Right, you know. So what is it like Archie Bunker and the Honeymooners and stuff? It's nice to see a wife that is she's just being herself.

She's got boundaries and she's leading by example. It's really beautiful to me. All right. And Beth Crookham. Beth Crookham. We all have this on our list. You guys, we keep running lists while we're watching the episode. And I love that we've all arrived at the Beth Crookham point of our list.

So, Joy, do you want to tell everybody at home who Beth is in real life? Beth in real life, well, she was one of our producers on the show, though uncredited as a producer for many, many years. If ever, did she ever finally get a producer credit? They said she was like an assistant. For a, you know, like a producer's assistant. She worked her ass off. I mean, she worked harder, arguably harder, than several of our producers.

But Beth was, I mean, she's like the mayor of Wilmington. Like, she knows everybody. She's involved in everything. Yep. She can get you reservations. She knows everybody that runs every restaurant. She knows all the locations. Arts councils, whatever you want.

Actress extraordinaire shows up to tell Deb that the pies went to some other party. A barmence. We were so excited. It really was like shooting in a small town because had we been in L.A., had we been in New York, you know, we wouldn't have known the day players on the show who would come on for like five, six lines. But watching it back, we're like, oh my God, there's so-and-so. Hey, there's so-and-so. Yeah. All our people.

It's such a nice reunion. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story,

along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Everyone, we have news. Hi, we're doing a virtual event in September in honor of one tree hill day. Yes, we are. 923. Everyone in the OTH fam knows it's our favorite day. And this event is also going to benefit one of our favorite groups. Us ladies are raising money for Kind campaign because they do incredible work in schools to end bullying. And honestly, our Tree Hill High School needed that. Yes, ma'am. Yes, ma'am. So there is a lot of information forthcoming, but check out loopedlive.com. They have everything right there, and more

info will be added soon, so we can't wait to see you guys. See you on OTH Day. Beth is a force, and she would have to do all the stuff that no one else wanted to do with us, including ADR, which is additional dialogue recording. And basically set therapist, like, you know, the, the woman that we would all talk to about all the craziness that was going on and she was like just dealing with everything and she's an artist and she collects art and she's like an interior designer and she runs this charity that in Rwanda all the time I mean what an amazing woman we should find a link actually to some of the charity work that she does so people can go check it out and support her but that was just so fun to see our friend yeah episode and then then you know we

get to see again Karen kind of saving the day for Deb or did Deb it was vice versa man it was a little moment of partnership after you know after the party is like the mean moms were leaving they're like where were those desserts from

sherry who I love she had the same like haircut as Deb like I love how they styled all the cheerleaders to dress like Brooke and then they groomed all the moms to look like Deb She's so good. Strong move. Really smart. Also, Deb's one-liner, speaking of her planning this perfect party and working with Karen, when she catches Dan flirting with that bartender and says she's young enough

to be your daughter. And in this town, she might just be. So good. So good. Yeah. That bartender was played by Melissa Egan, by the way. If you're a fan of Hallmark or we could find out some of the other stuff that she's done. And she's a good working actress, Missy Egan, Melissa Egan now. Yeah, we had a lot of, we had a lot of people come on our show that continued into really successful careers. Who's your, who is the one that always makes you scratch your head?

Because I know who mine is. I'm like, how did that person come on our show? Who? Evan Peters on our show. Oh, my God. Oh, my gosh. Evan Peters. Even at the time, he was like, I don't know what I'm doing on this show.

I'm going to go do like much cooler than this, you guys. I totally was. But it is fun seeing people kind of like learn the business and come up through the ranks like on a show from 20 years ago because I did that on Dawson's Creek.

You know, like my, that was my first like, what am I doing? Yeah. It's fun to see those little guest spots because you forget that everybody has that one first job. Joy, what was yours? Felicity was one of those for me.

I mean, my first job ever was like a dog commercial or something when I was 12. But yeah, in terms of shows that Charmed was another big one, another kind of guest spot. I feel like I saw you dressed as a princess on that. Oh, yeah. It was a busty princess. I was like, it was me and Rose McGowan having some sorcery, you know, battle. That's up my alley. Loved her, by the way.

Was there a wand? She was so fun. She had a wand. I think. I did not have a wand. Damn. I did not. I had, they really made a big deal out of my boobs in that episode, though.

Well, that's exciting. Yeah. It's so fun. There they are. There they are. So what was yours? Oh, man. I mean, my very first job, I did a Kit Kat commercial.

That's how I got my sag card. What? That's delicious. And then, then I worked, I did a scene in Van Wilder with Ryan Reynolds, who literally, when they were like, get on your mark. I just looked around and he was like, It's the thing with the tape. This is how you stand on it. I was like, oh, you're nice.

And then TV, right before we did our show, I did a couple of episodes of NipTuck. Oh, that's right. You were sexy and that too. You know, they had you pegged as this kind of like vampy character. And I feel like when that came out, it kind of lit the fire on our show. Like, oh, she can do that.

Like, that's what she does. And I was like, I don't know. No, no, no, no. I was like, I have very much more comfortable in tomboy roles. Please leave me alone. All-girls school. Yeah. So like, Brooke was really a push for me.

Sophia, you got a role that I wanted. I did it? A pilot. A few years prior to that. It was a, it was like a pop star. You were a pop, some super pop star. It was a movie. It was a movie.

That's right. And I remember going in for the audition and Brittany Spears' name was on the call sheet. Like it was a big, it was a big movie, really big movie. And I found out later, I think when we were auditioning for our show, and maybe because I met you in the lobby or something, I probably looked you up. And I don't even know how it came up. Something, somebody, somehow I realized that you had gotten that part. I was like, no way. But what happened to that, by the way?

It was a huge deal. It was actually pretty crazy. the studio wanted to stand up. God, you guys, this was in the era. Primetime Britney Spears, Christina Aguilera,

Mandy Newer. And they wanted to do a movie about a young pop star. And the idea was so weirdly foreshadowing that this girl kind of has like a nervous breakdown on tour and decides to in disguise all the movies where they just put Rachel Lee Cook in glasses.

go home and go to school like in her hometown but just disguised as not herself and it was a really rigorous process the auditions were crazy and it was at mGM and they wanted to do a movie with two options meaning two sequels contracted and they wanted a six album record deal and they were going to try to stand up an in-house record label with this movie so imagine in 2001 or two I don't even know I feel so cheated oh I know I know you guys it was going to be the next Britney Spears no it was like I was like working with high hat I was working with the best choreographers in the music business like yeah recording music and dancing my face off and but it was going to be to stand up the label and do the movie and then launch a tour

and, like, do a full thing, it was a $65 million project. It was a star-making machine. It was a huge, huge deal. Yeah. And they, they, like, something changed hands. I remember at the studio. And then there was a whole conversation where, like, they couldn't get that much money. I mean, Jesus, so much money.

Yeah. And they, it all sort of fell apart. I mean, if it was boys wearing tights being superheroes, they'd find that. of money. Of course. But it all basically came apart in the technicalities of them trying to launch a record label and a movie. And so we didn't do it. That's a lot of spinning plates. Like I get it. A lot of spinning plates. But God, I had such a good time like working on it. Prepping for that. But hold on a second. Then like when are you going to put out an album? Because those skills don't disappear. I know so. Guys, are we going to start a girl group?

Let's just do it. Let's just do everything. Like, what? else are we doing you know let's just start a girl group yeah we don't have enough things to do we should absolutely write a record i would want to we're so bored we have so much time oh my god can you guys we got it we got to get in a van put a camera in there and hit the road yeah well that's our next gig all right don't worry kids coming to a arena near you it's going to be fantastic Talking about musicians. Can we talk about our sweet, sweet Brian Greenberg? Singing Elliot Smith. And the reveal of baby Jenny. Yeah. Yeah. Big time. He's so good in this episode because he's so natural. Yeah. He was a fully formed adult. You know, like I felt like I was still like, you know, molding myself. And Greenberg just showed up and he's like, I went to NYU. I'm good at this. Watch. he was like oh yeah you want me to be um quiet and be having an internal dialogue with myself

and then you need to sing yeah i can do that the rest of us were like he was like the real lucas yes oh my god yes he was real lucas greenberg totally is real life lucas yeah god um joy you his reveal is great the way he doesn't treat brook badly yeah but he also knows how to move past like he's a nice boy, which is why it was so like, wait, what, that he had a kid? Because on television at that point, like, fast kids, bad kids were the ones that had children in high school. And so to see, like, the lovable, you know, philosophical jock as the person with the baby was like, what? That's crazy talk. I'd never seen anything like that.

I hadn't either. I thought it was such a great opportunity to just, as that storyline goes on, to just see, you know, consequences of different, you know, consequences of your actions when you're in high school. And, but it wasn't like shamed or harped on where he was like embarrassed or it was just like about here's a situation we're in, how do we treat each other right? And that is something I could so get behind. It's just such a beautiful message. And I loved that he carried that storyline so beautifully. And there was something so special. And you guys pointed this out when we were watching it.

In the moment where, you know, he's singing and it's revealed that it's him. And then you realize he has this baby and he's putting his little girl to bed. And then Nathan walks in and finds Brooke, like, passed out. And you guys, like, almost made me cry, just observing, like, they're just two little girls who need a pair of. to put them to bed. But Brooke doesn't have parents. There was no one to put her to bed. That crushed me.

They crushed me. Yeah, that was really hard to watch. And it was, you know, we had sharp editors on the show. That is, I jokingly say, I believe in the power of the edit. And I do because we didn't shoot those things at the same time. I don't know that they were in that sequential order in the script. but to put them back to back that way with those camera moves

it was done intentionally without making the audience feel like they're being beat over the head with it. Yeah. You were just somebody's little girl. We have to talk about the kiss. Oh God. You're going.

We have to talk about the kiss. That was a moment. I felt robbed. I have to say, I mean, all this buildup Yeah. But A, it felt like it was too soon, but maybe that's because we're binging and not watching it week to week to week. I mean, binging is in like every few days we're doing this.

So maybe for the audience, it didn't feel that soon, but it felt very sudden to me. Also maybe just because I'm an adult and I'm like these young kids, they're just like moving way too fast. But sorry, no, I just want to say like I felt a little robbed that with all the buildup, the kiss was like so it was forced it was hard it was broke made it happen yeah yeah it was I didn't get that soft romantic moment no because it's not a soft romantic moment you know that is um that's something that I have struggled with watching a lot of teenage movies teenage TV and stuff like that is that you see teenagers going into romantic moments like adults would like I'm going to move in really slow and I'm going to kiss you real gentle and hold your face. And that's bullshit, you guys.

It's just total bullshit. Like you're going to like knock teeth. You're going to like, you know, Peyton is kissing him. You're right. Because she's mad that her friend is being a real asshole in front of everyone and forcing her hand and her ex-boyfriend's been a nightmare. And it's just like, you know what? Fine. Everybody here. Like that's what she's saying. And it's not until later where Lucas comes and finds her. that I think she feels guilty about, like, the show of it all, you know, which is why the invitation to, like, sit on the swing and then go kissing Nathan's parents' room, you know, it's a little bit of an olive branch, but it's still a, fuck you.

It's still a vindictive move because she's purposely taking Lucas into Dan Scott's bedroom to turn her nose up at the power structure in this, little town. And so I was for that. Like, that made perfect sense. That felt like something that a 16 year old girl would do, you know, like, to hell with the patriarchy, you know, I'll do what I want. But with this guy that she really likes. But, yeah, but I... She had a hard time accessing that vulnerability. I thought it was enough that they could just, like, stand there and like kiss, right? Or stand there and like, open mouth kiss if you're going to like, you know, When I was in high school, the first time you kissed a boy, like, that was it.

Like, you'd make out for like 20 minutes. Cool. Okay, well, I'll see you on Monday. It's cool. The way it was written was very graphic, which made me nervous because it was like, you couldn't question it because it's like, well, this is what's written out. So we have to get the shot of you unbuttoning his shirt and we have to get the shot of you kissing down his chest. And so Chad was cool to like a white, like a white tank top on. underneath his button-up shirt, so I wasn't just, like, kissing his bare body, because that's

weird. That's so weird. We'd all known each other for, like, a couple months, maybe, a couple weeks. And it's high school. It's not. We cared about the example we were setting for other young girls, too. I was so whacked out about it, you guys, like, so whacked out about it. Because they wanted me, like, kissing all the way down his body, down to, like, his belt

and undoing his, like, I don't know that you see it, but I had to undo his belt. And so Robbie McNeil, our director, knew. that I was very concerned. And I was like, I'll give you like two takes, three takes max. But I'm not doing this all night. Like, this is inappropriate. If you can't catch it, like, and I, like, looking back, if I heard a little 21-year-old on set being like, you get two takes, I'd be like, this little monster is bossy.

But I just really didn't want to do it. And I was so nervous. And so I went back to the hair and makeup trailer. My manager, Meg, was in town for this, who I'm still with. And she, I mean, I was, like, crying in my trailer. I'm like, I don't want to do this. I'm just so, it feels dirty. It feels like they're trying to sex everything up.

Because Brooks being so weird in this episode. Like, everything just feels so heightened. Yeah, they really, like, turned it up to a 10 out of nowhere. It just was exhausting. You know they got a note from the network. Yeah. That's it. So I went into the hair and makeup trailer and they're, like, cleaning me up because I'd gotten

upset, you know, and Jojo, our hairdressers. yo girl hold on one second and i was like okay and we had a bottle of grapefruit vodka on ice and we all and so all the women in the trailer got together and they're like you may feel like you're in on this like all by yourself but we are here we're standing right behind the monitor like cheers to you being a badass kiddo and like we all did this shot together meg was like i've never done that on a set before you know and it was such a moment of sisterhood there It really solidified my friendships behind the camera because I knew we were going to have to continue to do stuff that felt weird.

I felt like a prostitute, right? Like, it was the first moment that I was really like, I'm kissing someone for money. I'm getting paid to do this, like, performative. That I don't want to do. Yeah, it was just, it, there's a morality thing where you're like, oh my God, am I a sex worker? Me? Yeah, like, where's the line? You know, is this only fans in 2003?

Wow. And so knowing that there was this kind of army of women that were like, you can come here. Like, we'll take care of you. Made it a much safer space. Meanwhile, Chad's like, were you drinking? I'm like, I have one shot. I'm a professional. I'm fine.

I think about how some of those like rituals and support systems are so meaningful in those aren't. in those arenas and I mean I even remember I just remember feeling so grateful like in between takes doing that party stuff that we were like like in the corner because it feels it feels horrible

to have to behave in a way you don't want to behave and whether that's like having to be physically intimate with someone because your characters are intimate or like I struggle so much with this idea of Brooke regardless of what the motivations were

and thank God we found out about them eventually but her being a mean girl like it was so awful and and being able to have space all of us together to like really separate out that energy from like you're saying what we were doing behind the scenes I mean yeah our hair and makeup trailer

was that was like Shangri-La man. We had a lot of fun in there. And we laughed in there. Yeah. And like, we're so lucky that we got to have that. It's about finding your safe space. Yeah. Yeah. And it makes me now want to create that for the, on the next show that I'm on. I want to create that for the younger women that come in. That is such a southern thing, too, by the way. Yeah. Like the southern hospitality and women just surrounding each other with support. I wish that I had been in a different space in my life at the time where I could have accepted a lot more of that and been open because I feel like I was, I received the least of that because I pushed it all away because I didn't

trust a lot of people just because of my own issues and the stuff I had going on in my life. But, you know, so I love hearing that that was happening for you guys. And it makes me excited to like find a way to create that in the next space that I get to go into you know well it's why I'm so grateful that we have this yeah like oh yeah no this is the best all the broads have reached out and been like yo girl would you want somebody to come on and talk about some real dirt we'll come on which i think having our crew gals on it's like y'all are excited for the actors to come on jojo and jane beck getting on this show who it's going to get so spicy danger Sure.

Yeah. Well, guys, should we, should we spin the wheel? I think it's time. I'm very into a wheel. Most likely to. We need a theme song for this. We really do. We need a jingle.

Oh, boy. All right. Most likely to get back with their ex. Get back with their ex. Not it, friends. Oh. Not it. No.

I mean, I think prior to this episode, we would have said it would be Peyton, right? because her and Nathan were so off and on through high school. Yes. Agreed. But no. No. I think Nathan. Not Peyton.

Nathan was most likely to get back with his ex. Yeah, because he was sort of like, oh, just go, I guess, wherever. This is fine. See, it's exactly what it is. Lee Norris's point. Invert the way we talk about. These girls are just so amazing that everyone wants to be with them forever.

Listen, we can't help this. Okay. So Nathan, but who like in real life is part of our cast? Let's see. Who was real? Just sentimental. It's, you know, everyone's like married now with kids so we can't say it. Yeah. We're like, mm. Yeah, I don't know. Most likely to get back together with their ex. Did anyone get back together with an ex on the show? I'm trying to think. It's like everybody kissed everybody. I definitely have a habit of breaking up and getting back together with the same people for a while. I've only done that once, and it was a terrible. It's because you're sympathetic joy.

It's because you, like, believe, I'm like, once you're dead to me, you're dead to me forever. I'm never going to look at you again, you monster. Yeah. All right. No, I'm good with Nathan. I think Nathan's a good. I think that's a solid choice. I'm into it.

Okay. Done and done. Leave it on the boy. Fun questions or anything that we want to hit up. Guys, I love the fan questions. We're getting the nicest messages in like our DMs and stuff. I'm so smart. Mandy wants to know how did you each feel about the lack of parental guidance each of your characters had, which we kind of touched on.

I never really paid much attention to it as a teenager, but now it really breaks my heart that none of your characters had parents in the first few seasons and mostly went to Karen when you needed a parent. Yeah, it's true. Poor Karen having to deal with all our crap. Or Haley. They went to Haley all the time. Yeah. Haley was always trying to clean up messes, I feel like. You should have just been able to be a kid, damn it.

I know. You know, I think that so much of my real life identity was formed by having all these boundaries. Like, I was the kid that had the earliest curfew and I wasn't allowed to go out of a 10-mile radius from my parents' house. And, you know, on New Year's Eve and Y2K, I was supposed to be in the basement with the family, like, bunking down. And my big rebellion was that I went to my best friend's party, you know? Those boundaries defined me. And so it was very difficult for me to portray not one, not two, but like multiple kids that didn't have that at all. It just felt weird.

Yeah, I think that worked for the show, though. I mean, it's a show about kids and what we were going through. And I think we had somebody that represented in some ways, like a piece of something that everybody could relate to in their part of life, having a parent, not having a parent coming from a big family, having a parent that was gone, having a parent that was absent, having a parent that was very present, having parents that were present, but emotionally absent. The boys had parents. Do you feel it all like they knew how to write for boys and parental figures? but they just didn't understand how girls work in that capacity could be. I think they probably

didn't understand and to be frank, I don't think they cared. I think they planned on, you know, a show about brothers where the girls were kind of accessories and the fans really loved the girls. The girls watching the show

identified with us, thank you all. And I think very quickly, because I I remember a story about one of our bosses going in and literally, like, wiping off stuff on the board and putting girls' names up on the board, like, more of this. Wow. And I think we kind of took them by surprise. And I think there's...

People like these dames? These are, that's crazy. They just thought we put... They're in skirts. You know, and, like, I think that it was fine. enough identity for them and I think that then there's the practicality you know we all now have directed and produced and we know what the behind the scene stuff is I think there was the practicality of oh we've got like 10 people in a cast we can't hire another eight parents

yeah so you know I think they were like we'll get there eventually but more actors are expensive yeah well we bring in parents later and you know we find out more about that later on it's a slow burn hey hold on i want to i want to do this next question because i think something that like there's a bell going off for me we have a question from audrey that says you thought peyton was the villain right which i did i was told like oh she's super unliked yeah um but especially in episode seven brook comes out as the villain the way she treats Peyton and even haley who she didn't really know yet is the complete opposite of what was introduced before it feels like she's just being mean to be mean and then she goes on to ask well

when you were filming these episodes, did you feel like this was something that made sense for her to do? Well, no, but, like, bells are going off now in knowing that they were concerned about the audience not liking Peyton. Did Brooke get thrown under the bus in order to, like, get the fans

to, like, move their... I don't think so. I think it made the most sense for Brooke to be the shudder of the episode. I think, like, there was no other option. I think it's probably a, little bit of both. I mean, there's a business element to every decision they made about us. Yeah. Right? Yes. Yeah. And it is a 180. You know, we just established in the last episode,

like, throwing pom-poms at each other, like, oh my God, I love you so much. And then it's like, yeah. Wop-wop-wap. Yeah, I think it went more extreme than it might have, perhaps to help shift some of that. And I think. Okay. That makes sense. I do think that Brooke made sense to be the shitsterer and I and wear that red dress they took it so far woof literal devil in the red dress and the matching red earrings and red lipstick so much red just red everywhere yeah bad girls my hair weirdly got really red in this episode like when we're walking through the quad I was like whoa what is what's happening there so yeah I would imagine it's a little bit of both um but i think that interestingly whether it was a device or not

taking her so far kind of seeing how far she might go in the acting out gave us a an eventual space to talk about like what happens to kids when they have absentee parents you know yeah how do you try to establish an identity when you don't even have a fully developed prefrontal cortex like you don't know anything that's our little scientist right there she's going to figure out how the brain developed in brook davis god bless you sophia um we've got a great episode next week i can't wait you guys this episode eight is the search for something more do you remember what happens in this one no what happens i don't know i can't wait to find out all right so you guys at home watch the episode along with us um and then we'll all be back to

about it next week. Yeah, let's do it. Can't wait. Bye everybody. See you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queen's at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Charing for the right team Drama queens

Smart girl rough girl Fashion but you're tough girl You could sit with us girl Drama queen drama queens Drama queens drama queens drama queens Drama queens drama queens It may look different But native culture is alive

My name is Nicole Garcia And on Burn Sage Burn Bridges We aim to explore that culture Somewhere along the way It turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th who opened the first native comic bookshop.

Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.