Drama Queens - Fans & Stans ᐧ EP620

Episode Date: May 13, 2024

The Drama Queens admit that in watching the show back, they've become fans of certain characters and storylines some of which peak in this episode! , find out which OTH couples they are stans ofSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

well hi everyone you have me and sophia today hey there hi there team we are looking at season six episode 20 i would for you air date april 20th 2009 um gosh this is this is a big one um there's a lot opening doors for a lot of new things we have when peyton's pregnancy has threatened lucas struggles to pick up the pieces while victoria returns to lure brook back to close over bros so much to talk about there. Haley and Nathan clash over the decision to pull Jamie from his school, and Marvin tries to mend fences with Millicent, and our friend Pete Kowalski directed this, written by Chris Armstrong and Brian Garcia. Oh my gosh. Okay, there was so much in this episode. There was a lot in this episode, and I liked it. There was a lot that I really thought was great. I'm bummed.

Hill's not with us today because we're working around these crazy schedules. I'm off on location doing a movie and her son is in like a major series of meets for the sport he plays. I don't know if they've really talked about that yet, so I'll be vague just in case. But so exciting and you just got back from your movie. I'm amazed we're getting on these zooms at all, but we're figuring it out, you guys. We're figuring it out. We really are. I was a judge this morning at this middle school science fair.

And right after we do this episode, I have to go to do some choreography rehearsal. for a big stunt sequence we're doing on this movie and life is wild. But here we are. When you said choreography, I was like, Sophia doing a musical,

I'm so jealous. What is it? Oh my God. I would like to at some point, but no, this is not. This is not a musical. Yet.

You could make anything a musical. You just have to try. Sure. You just sing it. Well, this episode is not a musical. Definitely not. But it was very, very sweet. And I can't tell you,

how happy it makes me to have Mouth and Millicent back. Yeah. Like, me too. I just, I love those two. And every once in a while when I have such intense feelings, you know, about characters, I'm like, wow, these are my friends. Like, they're not even characters I root for in a show I watch. These are characters I root for almost as if I'm a viewer,

but it's a show that we made. And I just, I think they are so charming. I think their chemistry is. so authentic and it feels really romantic. Yeah. And I love that they're both really leaning into it. That's been, that's interesting that you say that.

I think you hit the nail on the head because that's been one of my favorite parts of this whole podcast journey is rooting for, because I'm not you. I'm not in any of your scenes that are, Sam, or you in Victoria or whatever.

It's been really fun to become a fan of all these other characters and scenes that I wasn't there for or didn't see. And I agree. Mouth and Milly are no exception to the rule. Although it was quite melancholic at the end. I guess it got very sad.

Maybe just because they're doing long distance. I don't know. I guess I was just getting like they both feel like it's not really going to last. But I don't know. It was sad. I was happy to see them get back together at least for a minute. Me too. But I definitely, I don't know.

I guess I get that, especially for us, like, we've all had those journeys, right? Where, like, you try to make a life where you live for work, because all you do is live there. Yeah. And if you don't, if you try to keep your tether, you know, to somebody back home, can you sustain it? And I think there's something so authentic about that, you know, we live in a new way. Like, our grandparents didn't really do this in the same way. you didn't have a job, you know, somewhere so far away from the person that you love. I mean, maybe if you were like in military service or something.

I was going to say, yeah, if you go to war, then you certainly did, but. But, you know, now. That wasn't the standard, like the lifelong standards. No, it wasn't a lifelong standard. And now people are sort of expected to go anywhere their work takes them and figure the rest out. And I don't know. I felt such a pang of familiarity because I was like, yeah, the saddest thing in the world. is when you have to leave the person you love, you know, after a weekend or a week together.

It's just like, I don't want to be away from you. I finally got happy. Yeah. It was a melancholy that I liked because I felt like it was authentic, I guess. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I can relate to that. You know? Okay. Here's something with Millie. I can be convinced out of this, but here's my first my first opinion. And maybe I don't need to be convinced out of it. But I did not love the throw away. She walks out in the morning. They've obviously slept together now. It's like they finally did the deed. So she comes out and her line is, I don't know why we waited. Yeah. And I have to say like, and again, like whatever's right for you. I'm not judging it. I'm just saying like Millie had convictions that were hers for her own reasons of why she.

wanted to wait with mouth, and to come out and just kind of like throw that entire journey, that whole storyline, everything we walked through, just throw it out the window, like, I don't know why we waited. Move on. I don't know. It bumped me. It bugged me a bit. What did you think of that? I didn't like it either. And I will say, I think because Lisa and Lee are such great actors, they made it feel really sweet and grounded. Totally. But in a way, I was almost, I really didn't like that I enjoyed them so much in that scene because of that line. I was like, God, this is just so cute in the way they're teasing each other and the whole thing. It's great.

But I agree. I think there are so many more nuanced ways. Even if she had said, like, I'm glad I was finally ready or I'm glad, like, something that honored her journey instead of dismissing it would have been nice. Yeah. Because at the end of the day, there's nothing wrong. with saying to someone, I really want to take things slow. People should respect your boundaries. They should respect your timing. And there's also something so beautiful about, you know, however faster slow it is,

when you have, like, really connected intimacy with your partner. And I didn't love that we were seeing them reconnect so authentically and so intimately and talk about all of their issues and then throw away her... her personal pacing with her own body. I was like, oh, come on. Yeah. Well, that's kind of been the, I mean, I think that's been the message of the whole storyline, right?

It was like, if you decide to have this boundary for yourself, it's all pent up, and you're just going to throw it away on the wrong person, and then everybody's going to blame you for it, and your boyfriend's going to break up with you, and it's like, again. I don't like it. I'm like, could we not? It's so complicated. How about we just show, like, healthy relationships?

relationships, whether you sleep together after six months or six hours. Like, I don't actually care. I don't care either. Like, have safe, healthy, communicative, consenting sex all you want. Slow, fast. Like, that's up to you. And you're, and you're perfect. But like, yeah, I just, I guess I was bummed because there's so much about their storyline

that's so great. And in a way that really felt like something that wasn't thought through well enough for Millie's journey. and it didn't they didn't have to make a meal out of it it didn't have to be some melodramatic something it just could have felt true for her instead of like some guy wrote it yeah and was like i don't know why we waited so long it's like okay no please don't no and thank god it was lisa because she she made it so sweet but i just wish she'd been able to say a better sentence than that sentence Well, speaking of sweet, sweet young relationships, let's talk a bit about Sam and Jack,

because the shot of the two of them laying on the bed, listening to the music, and it was, they were on the bed the whole time, neither of them sat up, which I loved in the blocking. It felt very, very indie movie, 90s indie movie, and very true to teenage life. I definitely did that with my best friend. Well, and there's something that I think is so true about how sometimes you have better vulnerable conversations when you're not looking at someone. Like if you go on a walk with your best friend and you can be moving and really just talking. And of course you're going to turn and make eye contact, but you're not sitting across from someone staring at them. It makes me so uncomfortable.

There's something really special about the fact that they're laying in a very intimate place. You know, there are these two teens that have just had their first kiss with each other, and they're laying in bed together, but it's so not charged like that. Yeah. It's, it's platonic-ish. It's very sweet. It's very safe. You know, they've got their little headphones split. It's so cutie.

And I think because they're not looking at each other, they can say some things and then sort of, you know, stare at the ceiling. Yeah. And Jack's big reveal of his, he might be moving to North Carolina. I just love them together. I think their comedy is so great. I love that Evan leans into really still humor. Like when Victoria comes in and interrupts them and they hide and they both slowly stand up and his hair is sideways and he just nods and never blinks. They're so perfect together. They're so great together. And the boyfriend girlfriend at the end when she stood up and she was like, yeah, I'm his girlfriend. Oh, the whole thing was so gut-wrenching. But I love seeing the younger generation, seeing this theme of the multi-generational overarching the whole episode with Jamie and all that too. I'm so engaged with the younger generation now watching it. And I wonder if I, like, did the 20-year-olds watching our show enjoy that or the 30-year-olds, year olds or did they feel like they couldn't relate like they were too old for it now? I wonder.

I don't know. I mean, I always felt like we all related really well together and we were in our 20s when we were making our show. I think one of the things I really enjoy about seeing some of that intergenerational overlap in episodes like this is that you realize we're all really just going through the same thing. Everyone's trying to find their place. Everyone wants to know where they belong. Everyone's trying to find the people who make them feel safe, who teach them things, who hold them in hard times. And that's something I think is so special, particularly, yes, in Sam and Jack's storyline, I mean, even in the way that they're planning music festivals to go to and meet up at, I mean, they're just so adorable together. And within that, Sam's

storyline of the way that she is finally being mothered by Brooke, but is also trying to mother Brooke in certain ways. She's trying to support me in this episode. She's trying to encourage me to be bolder. She calls me out on shutting myself off from my emotions, which is very much like Victoria. And it's like the greatest insult in the world to Brooke Davis to hear that. Yeah.

And weirdly, Victoria winds up being the one who, since Brooke will not let her in her space, who also shows up to mentor Sam and who says the hard things to her, you know, when she first ambushes her in the cafe and is like, how did you get my daughter to take you in? And Ashley is so freaking funny saying, well, you know, I was a thief and then I assaulted her and then I slept in my car. I've made up with it from, what did she say? I've made up for that with my sunny disposition. And Daphne goes, I'm amused on the inside. I was cackling. Like, I just did, I couldn't like catch my breath. I just thought that was so funny.

And then suddenly it was like a one-two punch. They got me in the fields in such a way. Because Daphne has this wildly human moment where Victoria says to Sam, you want this perfect situation. You think I should have been a perfect mother. You didn't have a perfect mother either. There's two bad choices, one that leaves or one that stays and is bad at it. Which would you pick? And to see Victoria admit that about herself and to see Sam.

sort of realize I felt like she had the realization that we've all had as adults where you look at your parents and you go oh you didn't actually know what you were doing yeah yeah oh you were guessing wow you you were just trying your best with the information that you had and that shift that then sam goes home and yells at brook from that place of like you're doing this thing yeah and and sam takes her own advice at the end she does it's so special it was it was really my favorite arc of the whole episode me oh me too and i was really wowed by the victoria moment at the end yes coming up and seeing her hand on it was wild because i know your hands and so i like i yeah i saw not your hand on sam's shoulder in such a comforting

way i was like well who is that and then i yeah oh my god it's going to be victoria and it is And I was so shocked. And it seemed so out of character. And yet, I mean, Daphne pulled it off. But what a major shift that she would be exercising an attempt at comfort when she's been nothing but hard and cold and tough. I don't know if this was intentional on the writer's part, but you know what it made me think about? is so many people in our peer group who have kids, who had really rough experiences growing up, and their parents are now getting a second chance as grandparents.

Yeah. And in a way, it really feels like Victoria is stepping into this role with Brooke's foster child to say, okay, she can't see that I'm learning some lessons. My daughter doesn't want to see it, can't see it. Maybe I don't deserve for her to see it. But I do have a proving ground. I can be different. I think you're right, because I see that a lot of relationships where I know people who don't talk to their parents, I mean, they don't engage very much, but they still want their children to have grandparents.

And so there's this sort of surface relationship between the parent and child, like the older generation and the new parent. but then the grandchild and the grandparent have a really strong bond. And it's interesting to me that we people can get a second chance like that, I guess. It's kind of cool. Yeah, I just think it's really, it's really sort of special. And I don't know if it's the time apart that did it for Victoria. I don't know if it's that she's been humbled by the fact that she can't run the business all by herself. Well, the business is tanking because she doesn't have her star.

Yeah. And I love that I got to say to her, oh, so, you know, you don't, you're not the one who spends the straw into gold after all. And she's like, hard to find quality straw. It's still like she can't let it go. She can't let it go. It's so funny to me. It's so good. But I do think there's something about her being humbled at the one thing she's always been good at as a parent, which is actually being a CEO.

Yeah. And having to ask for help probably opens up a space for her to maybe ask for help emotionally too. Yeah. I love it. Well, you and Sam got the cry stick this whole season. I realized, I was like, Peyton's so happy. Like, everything's pretty good. I mean, you know, car accident and illness aside. Like, she hasn't done a lot of crying. And maybe that was Hillary being like, you know what, I'm not going to cry anymore. I'm done. I'm done. But they handed it off to you. You've been crying so much this whole season. And Sam, too.

Anytime they found somebody that was a good cry or it was like, oh, mark her down and bring her in for four more episodes. She cries. Oh, my God. But you know what's funny? I can see, and I think it's things we notice, right, that other people don't. But I can see the takes where it's like, oh, we had done every single setup in this before this one shot. And this is the shot they picked. And like, I'm out of tears.

Yeah. But I have to keep playing upset. But, you know, I cried for six hours shooting this scene. And at our, you know, five hours and 30 minutes in, I didn't have any left. It's my least favorite. I get so mad at myself when I have to do an emotional scene and I'm tapped out. And I just have to, like, make faces. But you're a human.

There's only so many times you can sob before your body is like, okay, we did it. We cried it out. We're done. And you're like, yeah, but we have three more setup. in this nine set-up scenes. So, I don't know how actresses do it. I've never had to do a project where, you know, like a movie shoot where it's three weeks or a month or so or longer where the whole time you're stressed and upset. I don't know how actors do that.

Have you ever had to do anything like that? Like a long-term project, but the script is, you know, maybe over the course of a day and you're supposed to be really upset or something the whole time. Yeah. It's hard. That seems so difficult. I remember on a project once, you know, we were, yeah, it took place over, I think, two or three days, whatever it was. And by the end of the movie, me and my co-worker are supposed to have been awake for like 30 hours. So they want our eyes to be bloodshot.

So they keep blowing that menthol in our eyes to make them red. But it also makes you cry. But we're not supposed to be crying in every scene. so like we're just like snodding tears trying not to like be totally disgusting everywhere but then it got to the point where like there was literally just no water left in our tear ducks for anything and and it stopped it like sort of stopped working because we'd been using it for you know three weeks because that was the last day of the film you know calendar day and i was just like man if i never smell that smell again it'll still be too soon it's

so brutal. But it's things like that that you don't think about. Like, how do you maintain bloodshot eyes for three weeks? No, I really don't know. You know, all that weird stuff. For those of you who don't know the menthol thing we're talking about, there's this little, there's this little thing. I guess it kind of looks like a little tube or like actually if you, if you put a tampon in half. Oh, yeah, it looks like a vape. It does kind of look like half a tampon without the cotton inside. just the applicator, but yeah, they have this stick inside that's got, it's menthol. I mean, it's mint balm or mint soaked on something. And they blow through this tube into your eyeballs, which instantly makes you cry.

Yeah. And in Sophia's case, have bloodshot eyes, but you don't want to use it very often. Yeah, it makes your eyes really red, which, you know, again, to Joy's point, like, and really the whole conversation. If you've been doing an emotional scene for hours and hours and hours, because they have to cover it from every direction, a couple of hours in, they'll be like, hey, do you want a hit of this to just, like, trick your body into making tears again? Sure, but good God, when they are blowing that in your eyes all day and you're not supposed to be tearing, I was just like, I got to the point where I was like, I'd rather stick needles in my eyeballs.

I was like, okay, not really, but it's a little hyperbolic, but seriously, this is a nightmare. And yeah, I don't know. I don't know how people do it. I don't either. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose.

and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive

while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I also wrote down, I love that Daphne always enters a scene like she's on a mission. Yeah. Every single scene she walks into. She comes in like she has an announcement. Yeah, it's so great.

How do we feel about the way she's sort of. of holding Brooke hostage about like, hey, let me put everyone's job at stake at the company and then force you out and then blame you for not saving them. I don't know. It was a little bit of a mind game. Well, it's so manipulative, but it's really interesting. I think now that we've, you know, we've done this podcast, which is sort of like therapy, and we've all obviously done a lot of therapy. We have really been able to, understand the amount of pressure that was certainly put on us as young women on this set and that we often continue to feel on sets in general, which is like, you have to show up

for all these people. You have to be on your A game. Like it's the reason nobody gets a sick day. You know, if you're a performer on camera, like all of these expectations that if you don't do every single thing to the best of your ability and sacrifice yourself for others, like Peyton says to Brooke, all these people will be out of a job. you know, it really was the thing that enabled so much of the bad behavior on sets for so many years. And to be frank, still does. Because people say, well, if you say something, you're going to ruin it for all these other people. Yeah, that's it. It's the, it's the, I'm going to create a problem. And if you don't handle it the way I want you to, it's your fault for what the fallout is your fault. Yes. Which is so fucked up. I've been in relationships like that. I've felt like I've felt. Maybe. I do. Oh, that's a bit of you. Weird.

Yeah, it's really, but it's so, it's so insidious and you feel so guilty and you're like, oh, my God, like this scenario I've got, you're being held hostage essentially. And then at some point to realize, oh, wait, this other person created the problem. This is on them. This happened on another episode that we were talking about this too. Was it Dan? It had to have been Dan, right? I can't remember what it was.

yeah so it's funny it's funny to see how the dual the dual the duality still exists with Victoria like she's still coming in there's no humility there's no nothing it's like I'm gonna hold you hostage to get what I want because I don't want to have to apologize or admit that I was wrong and yet let me see if I can do some kind of I don't know if she's trying to do like a like a karmic cleansing working out think good things with Sam or if she genuinely wants to become a better person. I don't know. But I like the Dan parallel. I like that we get, I really like that we get the Disney villain, female Disney villain version of Dan, Scott. I do too. And she's just so good at it. You know, that's the thing is Daphne is so phenomenal

at her job that you love her even though she's a villain. Like we're all obsessed with Victoria. and that is so, that's such a fine sort of needle to thread. Bitch, Toria, Vickoria, were the two that she heard two nicknames for this episode. It was great. It is wild. But you know what I will say? It is manipulative what she says. And there is something that irks me a little bit, though I get it.

But it irks me in the dialogue that they gave to Hillary to say to me, I don't know what you should do, but I know what you're going to do. You always sacrifice yourself for others, and that's why we love you. I didn't catch that, yeah. Yeah, it dinged to me because I was like, oh, 20 years later, like, we all understand that that's actually so dangerous, this sort of encouragement to women that we're supposed to martyr ourselves to make other people happy, you know, that we're supposed to not exist, we're supposed to be so self-level.

Yeah, that that's the brave thing about you, that you're willing to just continue to peel off your own skin for other people. Yeah, I don't know. It struck a chord with me. What a gross analogy. Sorry. No, I get it. It struck a chord with me, I think, because it's something that I've had to work on for myself as a person, like, erasing myself to keep other people happy, denying my experience to not be too sensitive. Like, you know, I even went through this. recently like there was a whole thing with you know my coach who was like well you're an adult are you are you going to be unwilling to forgive forever or do you want to work through injury and and the great part you know fast forward to now is that like early in working with my therapist who I love he was like that's wildly inappropriate like someone telling you you have to forgive through your boundaries is wildly inappropriate if you if your boundary is here and

someone else's boundary is over there, you can discuss that. You can see if there's a way to meet in the middle. You can acknowledge that perhaps that means, like, that's not the person who should, you know, occupy your number one seat of importance in your life. Like, sometimes you just aren't compatible with people. But for another sort of advisor to say to you, it's up to you to forgive this, regardless of how you feel about it to prove that you're emotionally mature. Like, that's gaslighting. I'm really listening to what you're saying, because I really want to understand it and I feel like I can see it from your point of view but I'm also like but isn't forgiveness for you like I do it for me not for the other person because it's otherwise it's like

I'm just holding on to something that's sure but which would indicate a level of emotional maturity that you're growing and you know blah blah blah I think we can forgive all sorts of things and then move on but if someone has like well forgiveness and continuing to allow someone to harm you or like cross those boundaries that's different like I don't think forgiveness necessarily means continued permission well and that's that's more what I'm referring to oh is like oh this is a deal breaker for me yeah and someone saying you don't get to have deal breakers if you want to be emotionally mature oh no that's bullshit and be in relationship with something that's bullshit and I'm like no but there was a time where I really was like okay a really

mature person would be able to say you are you and I am me and we have different experiences and okay maybe I just shouldn't personalize this and it's like no I everybody gets to have a deal breaker of course and you can say those things exactly about one person and exactly about somebody else and one person still gets to be a part of your world and another person doesn't and it's not that's just like personal discretion and what you feel is like this is worth it this is worth investing in. I see a bigger picture of why this is still worth investing in. And another one where you're like, I don't see why this is worth investing in. Exactly. And that's okay. Exactly. There's no fair, it's not fair, evil, even scale thing. This is just

personal discretion. Well, and I think to get to a point where you don't get talked out of yours is so important. And weirdly, I actually think it really relates to this point, the like parallel what Victoria says to Brooke about close over bros and what we're talking about has been said to us on so many sets forever. You know, this one, my set after this one, which was no walk in the park, I always want to be a person who shows up prepared, who prioritizes the well-being of my crew, who, you know, if we're going to be on a forced call the next day because we're losing daylight, I take a poll of the crew and say, look, they want to force me. But if they force me, that means they're forcing all of you. How do you feel about it?

Like, I want to be that person. I like being a team player. What I don't want to be is a team martyr. Yeah. And to learn the line of that, I think is so important to show up with, like, integrity and professionalism is, should be our standard. But you shouldn't be encouraged to take, you know, abuse or mistreatment to protect other people. And what I like about, you know, Brooke doesn't have that realization in this episode yet, right? Like, Victoria strikes exactly the cord she's supposed to strike with her, which is, of course,

she's going to go back to the company so that the company doesn't dissolve. But where I see her beginning to reclaim her power is in that 51%, 50, 50, 50, 52, okay, 51. And she gets it. And it's like she says a boundary for herself. She sets a boundary for herself and has a, win. And I feel like we're starting to see this moment of her really claiming her own space. And I'm, I feel very proud. Yeah, I agree with you. The hard part is not everyone understands it. And there are still a lot of people, I would say mostly kind of in the old guard on sets and maybe in

work environment, any work environment, I guess, that still think martyrdom equals team spirit. Yeah. And so that the hard part then is, I mean, for me anyway, is then being, coupling that with people pleasing and like not wanting anybody to be mad at me. So it's like, I know I'm doing the right thing. I know I'm not murdering myself. I'm trying to set a boundary.

But then that's going to make A, B, and C person mad. And I just don't want people mad at me. So I'll just do, you know, I'll either go full out like. I don't care what anybody says, or I'll just shrink back. And, yeah, I really like, I like seeing the negotiation that's happening with Brooke figuring out, like, okay, yeah, I'm going to, I'm going to do, I don't even want to say the right thing because she's been put in an impossible position by Victoria. But she's going to do the thing that feels honorable for herself.

She's going to do the most right thing. But she can't. The most right thing. Yeah. But she's going to do it in a way where she still gets to set her boundary. As you said, I'm just repeating what you said, but it's good. But I love it. I love, I got to say, I think it's so cool for us, you know, as the women we are today, having been through all the things we've been through, to like be able to sit and watch this TV show we made and go, oh, wow, we really hit the nail on the head with some sort of universal experience here. Yeah. Like most people don't run, you know, giant multinational, fashion brands with their crazy moms. But like it's weirdly very universal, this thing that we're

seeing with Brooke and her mother and, you know, Sam, who is essentially her daughter, like this, this multi-generational group of women figuring out their shit is like what we're all doing all the time. So I sort of, I don't know, I think it's so neat to see it from this point in time and to still feel like we can connect to it. Yeah, it's part of the magic of the show that they kept finding ways to connect with the audience over topics that were seemingly so singular seemingly so singular seemingly so you could sing that and it would be like a very cute line in a musical um i'll work on it i also really really loved the dynamic between you and james in this episode thanks watching haley and nathan

you know, be in, again, like Mouth and Millie, this long distance thing. Like, he's off playing ball, but then he comes home. And you have this moment. And we really get to see you guys, not just be parents, but like be teammates. And I get to see a version of Haley when she was eight, just dying to go to the school for the gifted. And I get to see Nathan see a version of himself when he was like some little punk-ass boy on the playground. And, and the the way you both navigate being Jamie's parents, it just felt so honest and sweet and fun. Like this was a fun episode to watch you guys. It didn't have to be, you know, big stupendous, crazy grand gesture something or, or, you know, some tragic accident. Like, you're just being a mom and a dad,

and it is so sweet. Well, and that goes back even to what you were saying just now about being relatable. that it's, boy, I mean, especially as a mom of a kid in middle school. And I've had this conversation with a lot of other parents. You look at the school situation and it's like, what do I prioritize? Because there's four classes in this school that are pretty terrible, but there's three that are excellent and there's an amazing social community. She's so happy. Her friends are really good. They're good kids.

Like I see these kids come over to my house. I'm like, oh, yes, I raised a child that chose, like, she chooses good, solid people to be around. I'm so happy. But the schooling, when you have an opportunity for, like, I, we know life can be so long and provide so many opportunities. And there's so many chances to grow, but also the doors that open and the choices that you make and the opportunities that you take can be very huge decisive. factors in the trajectory of your life. So there's all these things floating around that you're trying to make decisions about when it comes to school. Elementary school, high school, I mean, mostly when it comes to getting into high schools and colleges, it's something I think

about a lot. And it was really funny to watch Nathan Haley going through the same thing because I'm like, oh gosh, I get it. You see the possibility when you give your kid an opportunity for a really, really excellent education. But Jamie would have had a terrible time in that school. He would not have had any friends. Well, and here's the thing. Maybe he wouldn't have. Maybe he would have settled in and it would have been great. But at the end of the day, he likes his people.

He likes his teacher. He loves going to recess. And it feels like he gets to be more of a kid. And that's just what matters in this moment to this family. And it feels really authentic. And even I wrote it down because I loved, I loved the, you guys did this when you're sitting on the couch at the end of the night and he's talking about how he doesn't want to go back yeah and you're teasing him like oh you don't want to go back to

the NBA you know and it's this sweet moment and then the kid pitter patters in and he tells you what he wants and james says uh we'll talk about it and you say we really appreciate you coming to us and i loved that the parents didn't give into the five-year-old right away yeah but made him feel heard and respected and still retained, we're going to be the ones that make the decision. Yeah, we'll do what's best for you. Yeah, but we're going to include you. And I, I just love it. It's such a healthy dynamic. Yeah, I think so too. I really liked that. I liked it all. I liked that green dress that she put me into. Oh, my God. Carol, it was so good. I know you were running down the hall chasing him, like trying to make sure he looked all put together. And I was like, this is very

funny and also joy looks hot. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner

in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, also, Jamie walking in and negotiating in that scene that you're talking about

where he's like, here's what I think. I've had this conversation so many times. Maria is such a good negotiator. or she should be a lawyer. It's funny how many kids are always doing that. And he does it on the river court with skills too. When skills and Nathan are running the like little kids basketball moment at the river court, I wrote this down.

He says, if I give up everything, I'll have no bargaining power. It's called supply and demand. That coming out of a five-year-old's mouth is so funny. And I just thought like the writers really nailed the whole dynamic for him. They really figured out. how good at comedy Jackson was. And the whole thing just felt so sweet. Yeah, I'm into how they were tying all the, I also really appreciate this about our show.

And I don't know that it's, that it always exists. And when it does, it happens so effortlessly that you don't notice it until you recognize it, which is tying in all the storylines with each other. Yes. One character goes from one story into another. And then a character from that storyline goes into another. So, Jamie moving into this thing with Skills and his teacher, the fabulous Alison Munn, giving her the flowers. Giving her the flowers.

And here's what's funny. Okay, Skills has had a very specific type up until now, as far as we know. I mean, Bevan and Deb, we're the only two girls he's dated, right? I mean, I'm sure there were more. I'm sure they were more. But it seems like there's a specific type, a little pattern. But this girl, I mean, Ms. Lauren is, okay, she's tiny and blonde. I'm like, she's another hot blonde.

She's another tiny hot blonde. But she's definitely more conservative. She's more like serious and put together. She's a teacher. She doesn't get overly flattered by the flowers or like giggly or bubbly. It's very like professional. I'm not really sure if I should accept this. Thank you.

I love that you read Miss Lauren as like professional. I do, obviously, but she's spicy. She's spicy. It's there. She can throw it back. When they get in the conversation about the video game, she's like, okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She's got like a sass underneath how sweet she looks. Yes.

Which I think. That's what's drawing skills in, I think. That's exactly it. You can see Antoine's eyes light up like, oh, this chick is cool. You're saucy. This will be fun. Yeah, I loved that one. That was really sweet.

And the sort of through line, it's so refreshing to see everybody, as you said, really tied together. And it makes all of it make sense and even motivates. You know, at one point I was watching the episode and granted, I love that Victoria comes and gets Sam at the end. But I'm like, why is Victoria at the Dixie Grill? But I know what, like how does she know? But what I will tell you. She's like, Dan, just shows up everywhere. Exactly.

Which is sort of great. But I know exactly why Haley goes to the river court because she knows that's where the boys are. Like, because Skills is getting Jamie from school and then Nathan's going to do after school basketball practice and it just feels like an authentic life. It's an authentic life. That's it. It's a very small town. Yeah. That's it.

Yeah, I'm feeling that more and more. And I'm sure Hillary would echo that as well living where she is in the Hudson Valley. but in a small town is a small town. And where I am in Nashville, I'm feeling that more and more, the sense of running into somebody you know every day. The regular hangouts where all the boys go to the 7-Eleven after lacrosse. There's this very specific hangouts.

There's the ice cream shop. And the times of day when you know what pockets of people are going to be where. It's fun. Yeah. And I like that. We really brought that out. it's really really sweet what i will say too that i appreciated about this it's a bit of a rewind but i think it does bring it full circle is because we're seeing people figure out how to have their dream

even when their circumstances are changing and with the nathan and haley the fact that he's you know off in charlotte with the team and then he comes home and then he says he's sad about going back I love the bookends of learning to play nice. I love that Haley gave him that, you know, Jamie and Chuck are like you and this Nino guy or could be. Yeah. And in a way, seeing people figure out how to do the thing they love, regardless of what stands in their way,

I also see Haley and Mia do that for Peyton because Peyton's on bed rest, so you bring the studio to her. Yeah. And you make this effort to make someone feel seen and to make sure someone doesn't lose out. And I just, I liked, even though they're having completely different experiences, I liked the button because we started the show with Peyton and Nathan as a couple who obviously were not well suited for each other and needed to sort of be with their opposites, allah, Haley and Lucas. but I don't know. There was something where I went like, oh, wow, you know when we have those beats where we realize these kids as adults would be really proud of their younger selves or, like, identify

with their younger selves? There was something about it that made me think, like, what a full circle moment for these two. And it felt cool. I love that. You're making me like this episode more and more. I mean, I already was like, this is a fun episode, but I love the weaving of all that, that I don't think I'd really paid attention to that. this time around. Thank you. Yeah, because we, you know, we had these early emo scenes of Peyton

in season one driving around in the comet. Sad. And now Peyton's driving around in the comet happy. And she's elated when she sees this mother and daughter who remind her of her mom and herself when she was little. Yes, and what she wants. Yeah, she's having all of this happiness. And then there's risk, the car accident. And yet, amidst the odds, she's full. figuring out how to keep going. And that's been Nathan's hero's journey in this season two. Yeah. And I think the parallel for those two is very cool. It's a lot of redemption. It's cool. Yeah. I do have one question about this

Nathan's storyline. Okay. Why, do you know why we replaced B.J. Britt, who played Devon? It feels like this storyline is something that could have just been done with the Devon character. I don't know why he had to, because it seemed like we were building up to something with the two of them and all that friction. And then he left and they just bring in another guy who's also being a jerk. I don't know. I mean, maybe he got a show and like had to leave. I don't know what happened, but it felt weird. Yeah. I think the whole point of having Devon leave was to have that moment. Like you think you're the only one with a

family. To have Nathan realize that, you know, things don't always have happy endings. But it feels a little lazy, you know? It feels like they either could have worked it out with him, or you're right, maybe he booked another job and had to go, because that's a reality we always experience with our wonderful guest stars. Like, we're all out here trying to book jobs. Hello, we're actors. Yeah.

Well, regardless, I did really love the story line. I did too. Yeah, I like seeing them both figure out how to work together to strong personalities, and they just had to figure it out. I mean, that's always a nice. it's nice to see that working. I also liked that they were having this very, like, combative boy experience. Yeah.

I liked that it wasn't what we all do and, like, sit around and talk about our feelings. It was like, I don't want to play with you either. And if you just shut up and let me teach you this thing, we'll never have to play together again. Yeah. They're like, okay, fine. It was so childish in a way, but it was also just really honest. And it made the Jamie and Chuck parallel work. Because you were like, oh, yeah, they're forever.

They're just going to be these boys on the playground. Completely. I know. So great. Yeah. Well, finishing up, we didn't really talk much about Lucas. I know you were going there, but we were like, oh, which way do we go, Nathan or Lucas? But anyway, Lucas seemed so calm at the hospital.

Why? I don't know. But I was like, I was definitely confused. I mean, I guess because she was okay by the time Brooke walked in. But he was literally saying the words, Peyton could die, and the baby could die. And he was just like, yep, that could happen. I was like, dude, how do you? I mean, I guess, and for Lucas, who is it, he's like an emo kid.

Like, he's so, how was he not, maybe he was just compartmentalizing all of it. Like, it would have taken him over. It would have overwhelmed him completely if he had even allowed a little bit of emotion to seep through. so maybe that was it yeah i mean i will say sometimes when things are really overwhelmingly bad i go i go not blank but like i i go very um like first responder so i'm kind of like okay here's what's happening this is bad you're going to do this you go grab that i'm going to get this somebody get me a turnicate get it da da da da da da da da da da da like and i don't i don't get emotional until after yeah because it's not about you. It can't be about you. It can't be about you. It has to be about the person that

needs help. And I wonder if, because Lucas has been sitting with this with Peyton and they've made this decision to move forward with a high risk pregnancy. So now it's about Brooke because he's telling her. Because Brooke is like, what do you mean all of these bad things? She wasn't just in a car accident. Like, what? And so I like it. It's actually very funny because one of my best friends is visiting and when we got to the end of the episode. And he was, he like smushes the comet logo back onto the busted car that's still not fixed she was like well why is he doing that the car is broken and what like what are we supposed to be why didn't he take it to an auto body shop are we supposed to believe this guy's going to fix this car and I was like here's a

fun fact because you've never seen the show um he actually grew up in an auto body shop and she goes oh wow everything makes so much more sense tiny pieces of information but also the guy who grew up in the auto body shop, like, that's the last thing that's going to go back on the fixed car. It is the absolute last thing. Yeah. I was like, could we not have just had him, like, run his hands and, like, look at it and reach for the toolbox and be like, oh, wow, he's going to fix Peyton's car? No, the comet thing should have been hanging off the car, like, or barely hanging on. And he should have taken it off.

So we know what's about to happen. Yeah, put it in the windowsill in the garage and been like, we're going to get her back. Yeah. Yeah. But I was happy to see him fixing up the comet in Keith's auto body shop where it was, you know, where he would tow it. I just thought that was a great tie-in. I really liked it. It felt nice to see. Yeah. Everybody gets back to their roots a little bit in this episode. It's kind of cool. Yeah. name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing

for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story. along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, we have a listener question from Talon or Talon. I don't know which your name is, but either is very cool. It's spelled in a very cool way. Yes. Music is such a big part of the show. Are there any songs other than the theme song that still make you think of Wintree Hill when you hear them outside of watching the show? Yes. Yes. Patty Griffin's The Rowing song. Yep. I don't know what episode it was in. I just remember watching the episode and being like, what is that song? Who sings it? And I became a Patty Griffin fan for life because of that song.

What about you? I mean, yes. Also, I actually ironically made a note because in that scene when Sam and Jack are at the cafe talking about, you know, all of the concerts they're going to go to and then later the foster parents come in and they're Bonaroo goers. Yeah. That Lexland song was playing. And I was like, oh my.

God, like it gave me goosebumps when it started. And it played for a while in that section of the episode. And it's just so good. And I haven't heard it in so long, but like the minute it started, I remembered all the words. And I was like, oh, wow, this is a trip. Yeah. So sometimes it's songs like that that you're mentioning that will always, you know, come to mind when you think of the show. And then there are songs I have forgotten about that when I hear, I remember hearing them on the show for the first time. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's so cool.

I love that. Cool. Well, I guess we spin a wheel and do honorable mention. Let's see what we got. Hopefully you guys will join us next week. I'm excited for next week. Most likely to rip their pants in public. That's funny.

I mean, Paul Johansson. I was going to say Bevan or Lee Norris, because they both unabashedly. get low on a dance floor. Oh yeah. And I always keep a little baggy of safety pins in my purse because I have fixed multiple friends pants while out dancing and realized, you know what, the fact that I have these is great and I should have them on me all the time. So you probably invented those little things they sell now, you know, the little square packets with the zippers that come with and it's got like Advil, a tampon, a sewing kit, like all little mini versions. The fact that I didn't make those is insane because, yeah, I used to just make them myself all the time.

Yeah, exactly. Put them in a little kit. Well, dang. If only I could go back in time. That's right. All the things we could have invented. My honorable mention, wait, what's your honorable mention? What's yours?

No, you go. Okay. My honorable mention is the math puns. Oh, my God. in the Oppenheimer school. It. Math get ball. Math get ball.

And math holes. Matholes. And, uh, and what did he? Oh, and he was like, that's a three point math kit. Like, unwell. That was so great. What a math hole. That was so great.

You know what? I think, I mean, gosh, there were so many things I really loved about the episode. but the thing that communicated the most to me that I don't know if it was in the script or if it was just a choice made on the day, the stacking, stacking the sugars, stacking the half and half, stacking the things. And that both Sam and Jack had this habit.

And when he left, it was this thing that she was still doing. And I don't know, it's a nonverbal communication, but I thought it was really powerful. So that gets an honorable mention. I love that. And I don't remember if we, did we discover that that was a direction from Paul in the episode when he did it first and then they kept it? I don't know. Or was it in the script? Maybe.

I don't know. It might have been. It might have been something they decided on and then it played so well that they kept it. But I really liked it. And, oh, I'm going to be greedy. I'm going to do a 50-50. Yeah, do another one. Honor, we'll mention.

The other thing that I loved so much was when Jack got in the car that tilt down to see Sam was holding her own hand again. Wait, I missed it. She put her hands behind her back and was holding her own hands. Like she told him she would when she was scared. And I... It makes me want to cry right now. Oh, I didn't know that happened.

How did I mix that? I must have looked down. It was, yeah, if you, like, if you grabbed your phone or a drink of water, you would have missed it. And it was so, it was just really beautiful and it was such a cool reminder, you know, as an artist, actor, director, to never forget the power of like the tiniest choice that can really, it just, it brings everything up. I loved it. Not everything has to be spoken. It doesn't have to be explained. Yeah.

Yeah. That's good. Our next episode, Season 6, Episode 21, A Kiss to Build a Dream on. Also, for the record, sounds like it could be the title of a song and a musical. It is the title of a song. Yeah. A kiss to build a dream on. Don't you think?

It feels like a musical song. I agree. Which is redundant, but you know what I mean. How did we never do a musical episode of One Tree Hill? Do you know how I tried so hard, of course? I'm aware that you did. I'm like, we did dream sequences. We did a 1940s episode.

we didn't get a musical. At least you got to sing in that. I did. Didn't we do one that was one shot? Like every act was one shot? Am I crazy or did we do that? We had to rehearse it like three days in a row and then we actually shot it and it was just like one camera shot per act.

It was a hospital thing. I feel like I'm right. Maybe we might have. I don't remember, but I do remember in later season. us doing an episode where there were those big acts where there were like seven-page scenes for each of our pairs. Yeah, all right.

Well, I guess we'll get there when we get there. Thanks for joining us, everyone. Thanks, kids. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time.

We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aimed to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic

shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.