Drama Queens - First Steps • EP503

Episode Date: May 8, 2023

Lucky Bamboo, Nathan stepping up for his family and Victoria’s reveal… a lot happened in this episode!  Find out who the Drama Queens believe was directly responsible for making it such a great episode, behind-the-scenes stories of Kevin Federline and of course, a full analysis of Nanny Carrie.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. you guys this week we watched with our people um i watched with gus today you did you did it was the first episode of one tree hill my 13 year old son has ever seen and he had opinions so as as we grossed i want to hear them all kid had opinions oh i can't wait joy how does this how does this episode play out what do we got okay so look it's season five episode three my way home through you, which aired January 15th, 2008, Lucas had found the motivation to write again while also trying to turn the Tree Hill Ravens back into a respectable basketball team. That's like a heavy, you know, that's a lot on your plate there, Lucas.

Yeah. Nathan goes to visit Dan in prison and he's ready to step up for his family, literally. He's walking. Brooke is working at turning Karen's Cafe into her new close over Bros. Store. love this storyline, and Peyton signs her first band, yes. And mistakes Lindsay's nice gesture for something. It's not? I mean.

Haley, question mark. Haley tries to help a struggling student. Director David Jackson, writer John A. Norris. Go. Oh, my God. Okay, so here's the deal. I saw some listener comments, and they really want us to focus on the episode. So, you guys, we're going to focus on the episode.

Do you understand? Okay. I know. I felt, I felt, I felt, um, scolded. I feel personally attacked. I'm so sorry. It's really intense. I was like, guys, I thought we were talking about the episodes. Also, though, I got to say, like, if we have guests, we want to hear from our guests. We're not just going to be like, hey, nice to see you, but don't talk to us. Just go line by line through the episode.

I want to talk about my tank top in this episode. It was great. I want to talk about all your tank tops in this episode. actually. I literally wrote them down. Are you talking about the black and white one? The stripy one? Yeah. Oh my God. I was upset. With a necklace with all the chains. Obsessed. So good. So good. Carol Cut Shaw. You look so pretty. It makes me uncomfortable.

But seriously, before we move on to the tank tops, because once we go there, we're never coming back. I have a question for our listeners. When we have guests, like, do you guys want us to do two-part episodes? That's the gist I'm getting. Is that what it is? Yeah. I'm getting the gist.

Because once I saw a couple people say it, I was like, oh, let's get a synopsis. Let's get like a round table from everyone. And it feels like people love the guests, but they don't want to lose us talking about the episode. So your notes have been heard. We appreciate your listenership. We are going to try to make everybody happy,

including ourselves, because, girl, I love a tangent. I agree. And you know what it makes me realize? Because when James came on, we were all just having such a good time. that we kept him forever. I mean, you guys, we had him in the Zoom room for hours. And I was like, oh, maybe instead of, you know, with people who we don't have that much to

catch up on, like we do with one of our core five, maybe when we have a guest, we should try to use that same method and, like, have the guests come on, have a guest catch up and chat, and then do some Q&A with them and then do a strictly episode focused thing. Is that the way to do it? But that means they're going to have to wait two weeks to hear the next episode of the TV show. So, y'all in the comments, you just tell us what you want. We're listening. We're giving you option A, two-parters with guests. Or option B, when the guests come, we have a little less time to talk about the episode. You tell us what you like. Sophia's breaking it down

and chose spread sheet already. Listen, I just need to know. I'm like, it's multiple choice with only two choices. I want a pie chart with the data at the end of race. Okay, perfect. But seriously, we are here for you. We're here to serve you, friends. Now I choose to refocus us on Hillary's tank tops. Well, no, we have to start at the beginning of the episode. Because now my brain is all like, oh, God, how do we make them happy? How do we do this? I love that as the fans say, we want the rewatch.

We want the recap. Talk about everything. Lucas is giving the most extensive recap in the history of our show. In these first three episodes, we have a recap every single episode. Yeah, and it always starts with, my name is Lucas Scott. Like, we're really going all the way back to the very, very beginning. Yeah. It really is kind of wild.

It had to be a studio note, right? Like, explain to people why you're not still in high school or why you're skipping all this time. You know what I bet it is? First of all, it sets the stage on the time jump for any fans who, you know, maybe they've been busy. It's only the third episode of the season. They might tune in and go, where's college? What happened? Yeah.

And I bet, to your point about a studio note, they were like, well, there's, we see that there's new viewers and they don't know what happened. We can't expect them to go back. So give them a recap. I was wondering that if maybe because it's, it was starting at such a totally new place that just people were telling their friends like, oh, you don't have to go back and catch up on all the episodes. You could start right now because it's kind of all new. You could just watch the first three minutes. know everything. But here's what I want to know. If we're really starting fresh, why in an empty house are Lucas and Lindsay still living? A, in Lucas's high school bedroom and B, why is his

desk in there? There is a whole house where he could write. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And he's clickety, click, click, click, click, click, and she's sleeping? Gus, the first thing out of Gus's mouth is that's a creepy place for him to have his desk. And I was like, she's staring at her sleeping. Yeah, we were folding clothes together and I guess I was like looking down folding pants and I look up and I'm like, you're not wrong my guy. Yeah, that would actually be really creepy if I'm looking at the end of my bed and there's a desk and, you know, if you sit on the end of it, you're just staring into bed. Yeah, it's a little weird. Yeah, where is Karen? Do we know where Karen is? She's in Australia. She's in Australia. But he's kept his room instead of taking over.

Yeah, it's kind of strange. But there's, there's a whole house. Even if, even if. Look, we're just post-college, right? Like, even if a young guy in his 20s is like, I don't want to have sex with my girlfriend and my mom's bed. Okay, fine, I get it. Yeah, sure. Why don't you have a desk in the living room by the window? I don't know a single writer who writes at a desk.

Every writer I know either writes at the kitchen table or the coffee table or a Starbucks. Like, nobody has a desk. Was it a full desk because now I'm thinking, or was it just that he had his laptop there and he didn't want to leave the room because he kind of wanted to be near Lindsay, but then didn't want to go to... A full wooden, grown man. Like, Grandpa desk.

Like, Joy, it's a grandpa desk. It is? I love that you noticed that. And Gus, I didn't notice that at all. That's so funny. Well, and the other thing that Gus noticed is he was like, he closed that laptop awful fast when she walked over there. Uh-huh.

I noticed that, too. Mm-hmm. Not wrong. Uh-huh. Yeah, he's already being shifty. Or maybe he's just insecure. And how about her vulnerability? Like, I'm so scared.

Well, this is the other scene later, I guess. But if we're on that storyline, like this is the storyline. But he is being a little shifting. I mean, he's so direct. I don't know how else you're supposed to answer a question like that. Should I be worried about us? How else do you answer that question? Yeah, worry.

No, I'm not going to say that. I mean, just a little. Just worry a little. Only 10% worried. I'm mostly okay. I'm having some feelings. But it's the kiss on the forehead that got me. It was like, he's like, we're good, everything's fine.

I love you. And then instead of kissing her on the mouth, he kissed her on the forehead. It was just a little like, huh. Yeah, I mean, code is that you have to like make fun of your exes a little bit in front of the person you're with. So they know. You have to be like, with that buck tooth girl, please, come on. Right. You know what I mean?

Like, there's got to be like a dig unless, or it's not real. You got to dig or it's not real. should have said something like Peyton cry baby Peyton come on I don't want to be around that well so I wonder if that was a David Jackson note knowing that's our director for our friends at home knowing that at the end of the episode Lindsay had to be vulnerable with Lucas and say look I've been trying to play it cool I'm really nervous because of these women from your past I wonder if the director was like as soon as she comes over shut the laptop give her her reasons to feel like you're hiding something from her.

Yeah. Because if that was a directorial choice, it was a very good one. Yeah. I mean, the first thing I want to do is open that laptop as a chick. The fact that she didn't open it when he left the room, I was like, do it, do it. I was like, man, she's pretty secure. She is. She's so confident.

She's such a, Michaela is so great for this part because she really is so confident, so non-threatening in the way that her manner is that, you know, she comes to your office with this bamboo and it's so sweet and sincere. I mean, I don't know. I might disagree. I loved this storyline so much because I absolutely, like, bought Peyton's side of it. Like, I remember being giddy about having to do the whole recap with like, and then she said, I just want you to know I'm here.

Like, I have like physical memory of. saying it? Because she was peeing on her territory. You can't tell me otherwise. Well, and what I love about watching the two of you play all of those scenes together is that you're both right. And then you're both saying, no, no, no, I'm totally taking the high road. But there are big feelings involved. Oh, my God. Peyton wasn't looking for Lucas in this episode. She was about the work. She was about like, I'm here with my best friend. It'd be one thing if Peyton was like, oh, I'm here at the high school you know

we'll get there but I absolutely I'm team Peyton on this one there's no reason Lindsay should have brought her bamboo there's no fucking reason it's Peyton Sawyer's hometown if someone came to you in your own hometown

and I said can I get you anything and you're like put up here now get out Oh, it seemed so sincere to me that she was genuinely like, I guess me put it, if I put myself in her shoes, it's like, yeah, you did. You ran this town. And so I don't, I'm not here to step on your toes. I want to make peace because we have to coexist. It's like a little bit Jolene. In Peyton's mind, there's no reason to make peace because it's like it's a chicken or the egg situation. You know what I mean? There's no reason to make peace because there's no conflict. Do you? Is Lindsay, is Lindsay insinuating that there's conflict? Is that what's going on here? I'm loving this. Guys, I loved it. I am loving this. And by the way, what I love about it

is watching you two debate the sides of this argument. I feel like Brooke, being like, listen, I don't know what to say. I get it, but she also brought me a bamboo. So it is a speech that she's given to more than one person. But Peyton's right at the end. She's like, But you're also his ex-girlfriend. It's my favorite little story. Like, you know, Haley didn't get a bamboo. Haley didn't get a teacher bamboo. That's it.

We solved the riddle. By the way, you're right. But Haley and Lindsay have a friendship already. And so it's well done because you can see everybody's side. What I will say tracks for me. And I felt, I really felt it was being represented well in this moment. moment, this is no secret to either of you, because we've been friends for 20 years. But my therapist a couple months ago was like, here's the thing. You have big feelings and you are a sensitive

person and it makes you a good friend and a very passionate advocate. And sometimes you bring big feelings before they are appropriate. And I'm like, yeah, you're not wrong, I guess. Because when I feel like I've bonded with someone, I'm like, now that I'm in, I'm in for life. you get arrested, you call me. She's like, you have to bond with people for a long time before you can like volunteer to bail them out of jail, Sophia. And I'm like, do you? And that's kind of interesting, right?

It's like, Lindsay is bringing her big feelings and her big story and this whole thing to Peyton. And Peyton's like, I don't know you. So I'm suspicious. Like, it's too soon. Yeah, obviously you've read Lucas's book, so you know I had a stalker. you know I don't trust new people like don't bring me shit I don't need your shit I'm working I had a stalker it's so funny I don't need another one yeah ew god I loved the way that wrapped up

like when you came into the store I went oh god oh god oh god oh god because I just knew I was going to pull out one of those plants I didn't know it was great you did it no I didn't know oh I'm so glad Gus Gaffod. He loved it. That was a part where he was like, yeah, you are a bitch. Earned it. Oh, I loved it. But I liked, Lindsay is just so easy to like work with. She's so easy to work with because she placed that straight man part so well.

So you can be a little bit broader with your reaction. Like, it was cool to be a little like mustache twirley because Payton never gets to do that, you know? Yeah, so she's great. Great, great, great. That was something that was so refreshing to me about this episode. And I have such sense memory of so many of the scenes that we shot in the store and on the deck of that house. All of it. Because I had this nostalgia watching Brooke and Peyton in this friend journey because Haley's struggling and Nathan's struggling.

So many people are struggling and figuring it out. And to see these two girls owning their space, like grownups, but getting giddy like little teenagers, it felt so fun. And in the arc of the episode, it was payoff that I needed. Like, Lucas is writing a book and Lindsay's being really classy. And then you and Nathan are really in the depths of some things, but on the way out. And then you've got these two girls figuring out their business and they're, you know, screaming and jumping up and down about getting. to be roommates. I loved the way they gave us so many ups and downs through the episode. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage,

burn bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred two years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the

mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You guys had boss moves this episode. So many boss moves. I loved it. Well, we have to talk about career stuff because when this episode airs, it's teacher appreciation Week. And Haley is our teacher. And so you going to the basketball court and trying to fix this kid because you can't necessarily fix your husband is, you know, that's every teacher's, that's their mantra. It's like if I can just save one. I can just save one of them. And most of them save many, many more of them just one. But happy Teacher Appreciation Week.

Oh, thank you. Thank you so much from your. Tudor girl. Yeah, that was funny. Haley was in full soccer mom, 90s soccer mom mode with the travel coffee mug, like before anybody was making cute coffee mugs and, you know, the low heels and the khaki pants and just the bob. It was all very, very 90s soccer mom. It was so fun. And yeah, I loved, I mean, just to, the Haley storyline was minimal in this episode, aside from the little cameo by the juicy tube lip gloss when she was having lunch with Lindsay. For me, nothing much else was super interesting for Haley.

Except the dinner at the end. That was great. Yeah, you've said before that you felt like in some of the seasons you were put there to be the person that was like, why are you doing this? So that other characters could, you know, spit out their exposition.

But the stuff that you were doing this episode was important because you informed so much of like who Lindsay is that she has made an imprint in the community in Brooke and Peyton's absence that she's a cool girl because you put her through the ringer you know you inform so much

and then you do the same thing again when you go to visit Peyton and you're like okay I see where this is going calm it down yeah I was going to say it actually felt so fully formed to me so much of the episode for so many people

felt like they were catching up you know there was a lot of learning that still needed to happen about certain characters um you know partially because payton's trying to sign a band partially because we're still getting to know lindsay but i didn't feel like you were absent in the episode in any way no i didn't think so grounded and like every scene was meaningful even the fact that you know she comes home and she's so tired that she just blurts out how she's really feeling to the new nanny and then it's like ah like it all just felt so honest yeah and and i think that that's possible because haley's the one who has stayed there yeah and i think this is the beginning of us really seeing haley start to hold everything together um which eventually takes its toll on her because

you can't be the person who's just constantly holding everything together, holding space for everybody else, doing everything for everybody else without falling apart at some point. So it's, and that was one of the longest arcs on our show. So it's fun to kind of see the beginning of that here. Yeah, but, and it was great. And I loved seeing, my brain's going in a million in different directions, because I don't know what to talk about next. But, like, if we stay on the girls, yeah, that was great for Haley. I loved being able to watch her try and help Quentin and, you know, how that storyline is going to develop.

It was so fun. But the boss moves for me of watching Peyton go through this arc with the record label and watching Brooke walk in and be like, yep, I'm taking over the cafe. Yes, I'll take this house, please. It was just, they were such great moments of. turning points where we're going to see the beginning of all these new trajectories of life start to take place. I loved this episode for that reason, actually. It was interesting to watch it with a 13-year-old because I liked it for all of the like, dun-da-da-da, our characters are

grown-ups now and like we're doing cool stuff. But there were some lines that were some real doozies in here where Gus was like, wow, you guys had to say that. Which one? Which ones? I didn't notice. God, I couldn't even write them all down. Well, you know, we'll get to it. A lot of the mouth with his boss stuff. What? Oh, yeah.

What a weird storyline. Gus had opinions. While we're making boss moves, mouth is doing some weird shit. That was so weird. I was such a strange storyline out of the blue. It was just so, like, of all the things. But you know what it is, because we've talked to me. Well, yeah, yeah.

It's more of that personal ego of, I'm the coolest person here. I'm the best at my job. And you judge me because you don't think I'm hot. Like him giving a speech about like you and your hot friends and your hot body that you hide under your outfits and you go be hot. What a little line? That's so weird. I was like, I'm so sorry.

This lovely actress who actually Lee has great chemistry with, by the way. Yeah. Like when they kissed, I was like, oh, oh dear. But they've taken this. girl who's our age and they've styled her in older ladies ill-fitting blazers and they've put her hair in this like 1960s like kind of inspired buffanti whatever it was with like a big twisty overlap in the back like it doesn't make any sense for like a young successful producer at a new studio and i think maybe they were trying to age her up because they hired her because she was a good

actress and she was young and they didn't think she looked old enough to be his boss. But if you're going to have him give her this big speech about being this hot girl, let her be like a hot girl in her 20s. It was just like, it was so confusing because I was like, this is not a person who's walking around this office presenting like, oh, I know this, this and this about myself. She's like a buttoned up professional person who's just mean. And that's why I didn't understand why he, like, why did he kiss her? So, Skills tells him this whole story about how I had this teacher who was being to me.

And the way I made her be quiet is that I grabbed her and I kissed her. And that's not all I did. And then she loved me. I mean, this is coming three episodes after our season four finale where we were like, stop touching us. And it's like, listen, sometimes she's just got to kiss a woman. and get her to shut up. Yeah.

Yeah, that's what they write in. You know what they really want when they tell you they hate you? They want you to kiss them. I'm like, no, that's not it, actually. We don't. That's never it. If we want you to kiss us, we'll just kiss you. That's all.

Poor Lee Norris. Like, poor Lee Norris having to process all of this as a third party. He's a victim of this, too. But you know what I really commend about him? And we've talked about this too, right? It's Paul's mantra, like commit. commit. When you're not the producer, when you don't get to control what's on the page, you have to go to work and do your job. And that can be really difficult. And Lee takes this, frankly, like, shi storyline for him. And he commits. And when he's talking to her about how he feels and how he feels rejected, there is so much emotion in his eyes and his face is getting red. And he, it's like he doubled down on how to believe in the scene. Because, He knew why it was icky.

And so he had to make it true for himself as an actor. And as much as I hated it, I also loved watching him. He made it interesting. He made it so interesting. Yeah. Well, and I feel, I have a vague recollection of where this is going. And I think I hate it for mouth because he's opening him a self up to someone who's cruel to him and has been really demeaning. to him and that's not attractive like don't kiss people who are like that's not cool mouth should be

kissing like the best nicest girl and not this woman who keeps telling him she literally says i wrote to the quote you haven't earned it yet um which also felt like a very meta dig like i know you think you're great you all haven't earned it yet um yeah yeah i feel like he's going to feel bad about this relationship later. It's going to make them feel cheap. Yeah. I don't remember where it goes. Oh, no. Now I have this terrible sense of foreboding and no clear recollection of what happens. I don't think she's going to get nice. I don't think so either. But how much cooler would this part have been if it had been like, like, I don't know, a woman in her 40s? Do you know what I mean? Yeah. They're calling her a cougar and She's all right.

She's all right. It really is so weird. Yeah, she should have a couple kids' pictures on her desk. Do you know what I mean? Yeah. Mm-hmm. No. Also at the beginning of the episode, we see Victoria just pissed.

And it occurred to me after watching the Met Gala. She's got such Chris Jenner energy. Yes. It's all that I see. Like, I just see. like Chris Jenner being like And my darlings are taking over the world I feel like there's an Instagram post for that pops up all the time

That's a good call You're right because there's all those memes about how No matter what happens in that world She'll make it into something that makes money Whether that's true or not By the way I have no opinion, please don't come for me I'm just talking about what the internet says But it's interesting when you think about it in that lens

You're right That sort of sharpness and that work is everything, attitude that feels caricaturized. And Victoria says to Brooke, are you doing drugs? Because if you are, it's okay. I think it's finished. I love that. That's hysterical.

That is so the woman who has never been around for her daughter. She took off for every year, every summer, always living somewhere else, always traveling. Like, you can stay home, right? You're fine. How old are you? You're 13 now? You're good. Okay.

I'll see you later. Yeah. We'll spin all this around as soon as you. Yeah. I mean, just always on to the next thing, always working. And I love the reveal and the fact that she is your mother and the fact that somebody in the writer's room thought of that, let's have the woman running Brooks company with her be her mom. Because who else? What a complicated relationship that would be.

Can you imagine your mother who basically neglected and abandoned you, but she's so effing good at her job that you hire her to run your company? It's brilliant for TV. It's incredible. And the attitude in that scene, it was such a great mic drop. It was a perfect way to end the episode because what does anyone say after that? And when she goes on her rant about how I've stupidly charged a house to the company and she says, Brooke, and I go, mother. And there's just no air. It was a little piano. Mm-hmm. And I just love that Daphne picks up back to work. I'll see you on the plane, my dutiful daughter. And on the way out, I don't know if you guys noticed this,

but she looks at you, Hillary, and she goes, Nice to see you, Peyton. I wrote that down. I wrote it down. She says it in the weirdest way. And it was such a genius thing for Daphne to do. She hit that tea, man. It was like, I am going to enunciate this name.

I would punch you if I could. Oh, God. She hates Peyton so much. She's so brilliant. I love it. She's such a great actress. And I love that in this sort of we're grown up, but we're still kids and we're figuring out the intersection of these things that immediately were both children again. And Hillary, your face.

Oh, my God, you looked like such a little girl in that moment. You were so, like, what do I do? Like, when Peyton says, what are you going to do? And you just got to shrug your shoulders. like it's like you don't even have the energy to rebel anymore it's just like but you bought this house now what are you going to do you walked into a house and did it what everyone dreams of doing oh my god that was so great i'll take it i'll take it and everything in it please leave in an hour that woman i remember her she was so funny and her face when she asks about the cat while she's

holding him. I did a full spit take. It was great. But like, what if Brooke had said, yes, I want your cat? Like, Gus was horrified that you might say yes. So I'm going to give up a cat. It's incredible. Don't. Don't take the cat. Don't take the cat. Epic boss move. I love it. The boss move is to take the cat and change its name. Be like, you are Dorothy now. I think it's cool that we've introduced that iconic quote from Karen's that has now carried over into closeover bros and the framing of that shot with brook and lucas and their arms crossed and the quote behind them is like my favorite shot of the show that was so like that's the show yeah i loved it and i really there's something really nice you know as much as she's trying to

figure out her family relationship it strikes me that this is one of the best points we've seen brook in with all of her friendships you know like we are so strong as these childhood best friends come back together. We're going to figure it out together. And Brooke and Lucas are in this great place where they're buds. Like, they're really buds. And there's such fun stuff for them coming down the line. You know, I don't want to spoil anything for anybody.

But, you know, there's like a major fake out scene coming in a couple of episodes this season. And there's just great stuff. And I don't know. I remember, I remembered, I remembered. watching the episode, how good all of these scenes felt. I really enjoyed these storylines. They felt nice as an actor. Yeah.

Joy, you had to do some sad stuff in this episode, but all my shit was fun. And I do have that, like, kind of static electricity feeling, that sense memory. I loved your stuff. Yeah, I remember filming it. I remember enjoying it. And David Jackson is a director that I got to work with again on White Collar. And he's just a stand-up dude. and you know we were lucky to have him yeah he did such a good job with us and it is really nice

you know which way you said it watching Peyton be so happy like seeing you happy and empowered and and hungry for work taking charge of it yeah I love seeing you laugh and smile and and look at these dudes and be like I'm the one take it or leave it I got two things they don't have me and an interest in you

like that was I'm gonna put that in my repertoire it was a good one Kevin Federline Can we talk about Kevin for a second He was lovely You guys I was not into the idea

of Kevin Federline being stunt cast as the lead singer of this band because I'd interviewed Britney Spears at MTV and she was like a sweet chick and she had fallen on some like really difficult times and now people are finally addressing

that tabloid media storm that surrounded her but I was always really grossed out by it because she was never a malicious or mean person and I just didn't like how all that played out and so I was confused how to feel about Kevin and he showed up and that man worked so hard he was so insecure about like how do I deliver these lines he took direction he really tried and he was so nice to everybody yeah super professional really eager didn't come in cocky which is funny because he was playing such a cocky character yeah you know what shocked me what because i remember all that stuff the chatter of well what's going on and this seems weird and is this somebody kind of bullying Britney Spears in a way, like, we were all nervous. But I didn't work with him. So I remember just asking

you, like, what's the deal? What's the vibe? Is he nice? Is he rude? Like, are we, are we anti? Like, what's the, you know, what are we? It's basically the conversation we had about Lindsay and close over bros. We had about Kevin Petterline. What are we? What side are we are? You tell me. I don't know the details. And I was laughing watching the episode because I remember everybody saying, know he's great, he's working really hard, he's really polite to the whole crew and da-da-da-da-da. Awesome. Well, that's nice. Cool.

I had no idea that his character's band was like a rock band at all. Gus goes, was that music cool at that time? And I was like, yeah, dude, it was. Yeah, no, they had a couple different bands that he would, they were like, well, what can we get that, like, sounds like him? Interesting. And I think that was part of why he was so deferential. Because he was even like, why did you cast me? Yeah.

I ended up going out with him in Wilmington. Like a whole bunch of people after work went out. And there was this really surreal moment where he ordered trays of shots for the entire crew. And so I'm sitting there with Kevin Federline taking like tequila shots. And you know when you're in those moments of absurdity and you know you're in it and you're like, I'm going to remember this forever. Yeah. I've never referenced it again. But like, this is not normal. Yeah, doing shots with our entire crew with Kevin Fetterline was a weird one. He was very sweet. He was great. Yeah, that was the appearance of the stripy tank top for Peyton was in that series.

It was so good. But I was thinking like, am I wrong? But I feel like generally Peyton has been, like things happen to her and then she has to deal with it. That seems to be like a lot of what's going on. So maybe that's why it felt so exciting and refreshing to see Peyton really taking the reins and making decisions for herself and sticking up for herself and going out and being like, okay, here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to sell this and I'm going to believe in myself and believe in this dream because I didn't just leave L.A. for nothing to come back here and be too scared and, you know, kind of pussyfoot around it and then just like fail. I'm really going to go for it. And I loved watching her just jump in with both feet.

It was so cool. There's a nice feeling, like, when you come back to your hometown and you've already dealt with something harder. Like, I remember going to New York City and being so scared, like, so scared. And I had so many people tell me, like, oh, you'll go for six months and then you'll transfer back to a school in Virginia. Like, you'll go, but you'll come back. And then, like, being able to come home and be like, no, I know what I'm doing now.

Like, I did the thing, and I can keep doing it. I like the feeling that Peyton's like, I went and I did the thing, and I can keep doing it, and now I can include the people that I love. Like, I can invite my friends over to my office. I can consult with them about what's cool. That's the gift of being able to go away from your hometown and bring something back to it. So I'm excited about the development of Red Bedroom Records. Gus, this is the Gus episode, he really liked the office.

And he was like, oh, my God, the red bedroom records. records on the wall, did you place those? And I was like, as a matter of fact, buddy, I did. Because our art department just pulled all the records from Peyton's old bedroom. And I just sat there one day with them. And we pulled the ones that we thought were like, cool, the ones I liked. And those are the ones that we put in the background. And they were really cool to, it made it feel like a real space that was mine. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We need to talk about the Scott family, Dan, Nathan,

weird prison bit. Danny Carey. Keeping it from Haley. I mean, the most touching part of the episode for me was when Haley sits down and says, I missed you. It's also a really hard thing to admit to someone that you live in the same house with.

That hit me. Yeah. Yeah. I don't think I understand. that at the time. That's a mature thing you understand when you're older and you've been through some hard times. I think when I was, what were we, like 24 to me? It was like, oh, yeah, I missed this sad. But yeah, it was. It was a profound thing to say. You're right. Are you regretting hiring Nanny Carey? Are you feeling, is Haley feeling weird about it yet? You know what's amazing?

Like, I'm watching this and she is crossing all kinds of boundaries already. Like, they're making it seem like she's cute and sweet and nice, but I'm like, the way that she talks to Nathan, even just like passing by his bedroom and having a conversation, it's just so inappropriate while he's stretching on the floor and then asking about his, it's like, I'm empathetic, I'm here, I'm an opening, open book, a listening ear, but it's not, that's not what you're here for. You're here to watch the kid. Why are you talking to me about how do I feel being a state hometown hero, all these things? It just feels like, it just felt so. inappropriate but it was done in a really subtle way that I guess that's kind of how it works when

somebody's pushing your boundaries you're kind of like are you trespassing or is this you're just being nice I think you're just being nice right that's okay right I mean I'm a little uncomfortable but it's just me you're fine it's fine right it's an in the episode it's the same as Payton and Lindsay trying to figure each other out but it's it's in this other arena and I think it's really interesting, right? She's an employee. It's totally inappropriate. Well, sure, but just like you've got Peyton going, she's being weird. And then you've got Nathan kind of looking at Nanny Carey, like, what are you doing here? Why are you talking to me? She just keeps being nice. She should be. And exactly, but then you've got this, just as you're saying, you have this,

is it or isn't it? Is she just nice and a little clueless? Or am I weirded out by this for a reason? Yeah. Has she done anything wrong? No, but I have a feeling. I don't know. It's smart. So icky. When she said, oh, you beat us in high school and I cried for a week. That was the line where I was like, this chick ain't level. She didn't cry for a week. That's a weird thing to say. You know what did it for me was her walking in and asking him how he was doing and being like, well, you know, I used to be a personal trainer. I was like, nope, nope, nope. You're dropping hints. yeah no no boundary crossing and listen i understand that it was really important for nathan to see how important to jamie he is but i also was like wow you you promised the kid you wouldn't tell that's what gus said and then as soon as he was sleeping you told it's her first day yeah like you betrayed his trust yeah and then at haley at the car and rough day i mean i guess it's like it's nice

okay thank you for being empathetic and then Haley just kind of like let it all out but yeah I don't know it's it stinks to me it's well done hey Lindsay didn't give nanny Carrie any lucky bamboo it was her first day on the job too all I'm saying you're gonna you're gonna die with this this is the hill you're dying on I'm dying on that hill man I'm here for it but I do I really want to know do you guys think that because we know where the nanny carry storyline goes We're pulling at all the threads now. Girl. No, I was really trying to watch it from a perspective of like just clean, clear. I'm a new viewer. I have no idea who this person is. Yes. And it's still, I was like, okay, I get for the sake of TV drama, sometimes they will lean

into someone being a little bit more, I don't know what the word is. I'm not going to say boundary crossing, but just a little bit more overt. Inappropriate. Everybody walks in our front doors. like nobody locks their doors, nobody closes their doors. Exactly. But it's still just, it smacked of something gross to me. It just felt like.

Why didn't Nathan have his door closed? Well, because there's a professional in the house. And a professional should just walk out, walk down the hallway, maybe even wave if you happen to catch the person's eye, and then just like keep going. It's not, that's not time to stop and have a conversation when the man that is living in the home that you're working in is in his bedroom. stretching on the floor, that's not the time to have a conversation. Yeah.

That's weird. If anything, it's a, oh, hey, you need anything? Like a little bit of a, sorry. Yeah. Oops. Sorry. Didn't mean to interrupt. Can I get you something?

No? Okay. Bye. Yeah. I love the Brooklyn Painter like, abort. Abort. What are you doing? You totally warned her.

Yeah. Yeah. I feel like Haley should have asked way more questions of this. chick like so who's your boyfriend you don't have a boyfriend bye yeah yeah Haley's always been a you know rely on her instinct and character judgment and she passes she passes judgment on people pretty quickly I think she makes quick character decisions about people she did it with Rachel she did with Nathan even though she turned out to be a little wrong about Nathan but um she's very quick to trust her instinct on those things and you're not always going to be

right you know well you would think with her her history with someone like rachel where it was like the hot chick is throwing herself at my husband yeah she just think that nathan's so down and out right now there's just no way anyone would be attracted to him no i guess it's just that she's like i mean when tory came in that she's carries wearing like sweats and her hair's in a ponytail and there's no makeup and it's just really like the whole expression on her face is so sweet and innocent and young and there's nothing about her that feels like there's guile or malice or any sort of false intent well and they they played it well because she shows up in a moment of heightened stress and desperation for haley everything is bad and and and and and haley and nathan are

fighting and then they realize their little boy is not in the backyard and in waltz is this woman with him and says, it's okay. I'm a nanny. I'm, you know, I know how it goes. And it plants the seed in a moment where it's like, oh, you just helped us. Oh, maybe you could save us. Oh, I do need help. And you say that's her in that scene. Like, who am I kidding? I need help here. And I think, I don't think if everything had been great, you might have just hired some girl off the street to nanny, your child. Yeah. It's not like the process. you would go through where you get resumes and you do interviews with multiple people. And, yeah, it's just a dire circumstances.

I'm teaching. My husband can't move around. My kid is neglected. Not neglected, but, you know, my kid is not getting the attention that I want him to have. He needs a buddy. Yeah. My favorite line about your teaching was when Haley comes to meet Lucas for lunch. And she says she can't hang out in the teacher's lounge because they're all still acting like my teacher.

That was mine too. God, love it. Can you imagine that? How weird would that be to go back to the high school where you taught at and now, I mean, where you went to high school and then now try and teach and then hang out with all the teachers like equals, that would be really hard. I can't, I've gone back to my high school so many times and hung out in the teacher's lounge and most of my teachers are retired now. But when I first started going back, obviously, they were all still there. And they like want you to call them by their first name. Like, my teachers all did the opposite.

They were like, let's go drinking, you know? And that was so weird for me because I was like, no, I need you to be an authority figure. Like, I need you to be someone I could rely on. I've got enough drinking buddies. You're like, I'm here for comfort. Please hold me. I'm so scared. Stop shifting the paradigm.

Yeah, teachers are fun, man. You want to talk about people who know how to get in trouble. Teachers, throw down. Yeah. I got to say I loved, I loved Haley being in Lucas's office. It just, again, it tells a story so simply. And then you talking about that, which was truly my favorite thing, made me as a viewer yearned to see the teacher's lounge. I'm like, we've never seen it. Yes. Show us. Do we ever even have, I honestly don't remember if we ever even go into the teacher's lounge. No. We never did because it's not a set that we built. I wish they would have shown it to us. I wish they would have. have shown like Haley walking in to get coffee and be like, the morning Pearl and have Pearl turn around and be like, it's Miss Walker. You know what I mean? Yeah, it makes me uncomfortable when you call me by my first name, Haley. Yes, it would have been so good. And you know what it makes me

realize, listen, it's part of it, right? Like we didn't build a teacher's lounge because it's expensive to build sets and where would we put it? But when you get to see outside of the world like there's that moment when lucas and skills see the boys practicing their free throws and they're so happy that it's happening that their coaching is working and there's one shot over their shoulders that doesn't go into the gym or into the hall you know the back wall of the hallway it looks down the hallway and that's at the actual school because we were in the actual gym and you see this huge hallway that leads up to the gymnasium and it was just like five seconds on camera but seeing something else made me feel really grounded on a campus because it wasn't just the same two hallways

and the same classroom and whitey's office it was it was a bigger universe and that's my soapbox about wanting a teacher's lounge good job coach you too coach oh i love those boys together It was so sweet. How do we feel about Dan being in prison? Yeah, guys, the least secure prison in the history of prisons. In the history of prisons. You go out the in the yard gate? It had a chain link fence with one little.

Thing of barbed wire. That was ridiculous. Where did we film that? Probably at a school. It was probably the yard at a school. And they would just take some barbed wire and put it on. the fence real quick it was hilarious that they allowed nathan to come in on crutches like weapons right no no loved it or a spontaneous drop by yeah popping by unscheduled visit i it did feel great

to see dan behind bars i have to sit not behind bars but you know locked in it felt great to see him in prison it felt like very fitting it's a good place to start for him paul looks great too he's like fit and healthy. It's the best he's ever looked. I know. I know. He looks like he's running plenty of business in prison. Like he's doing just fine. He's selling cell phones. You know what I mean? Like he's got a job. Yeah. But it was nice to see, it was nice to see Nathan finally going to see him having a conversation with him. That must have been really hard for him for four years to just cut his dad off after all that time of the back and forth that we just watch for the first four years of will they or won't they is he is he going to stick around is he going to trust his dad

is he trustworthy and he keeps giving him chances and he keeps getting screwed over and it was a lot of up and down and so um it was interesting i just thought it was interesting to see him go talk to go talk to dan and say it's closure but it didn't it didn't feel like it it felt like it was an opening of a door rather than a close. Especially because he leaves the picture of Jamie. Yeah. But part of me, it's interesting that you say that. When that happened, I was like, did Nanny Carey do that?

Because she drove him to the prison. Oh. I don't know, but it did make me feel suspicious. And I thought, is Nathan just doing something kind for Dan or is it not Nathan doing that? That's weird. That's interesting. Our characters are very young. They're in their early 20s.

So they do immature stuff. But the immaturity of, I'm going to come to see you just to tell you I'm never going to see you again. Kind of, I don't know, really far out of the way, especially when you're not walking well. Yeah. You know how it tracked for me was because Nathan had the wake-up call to how much Jamie loves him and still sees him as this hero. I took it more as he really wants to break the cycle of fatherhood. that he knows because he says to Dan, I've carried you with me every day for the last four years. You made me this way and I'm done.

I'm leaving it behind. I'm not going to carry you anymore. And to me it felt like he needed to go and say, I'm not going to be the kind of dad that turned me into this guy. I'm going to go learn to be a new guy, a new dad. And then he says to Haley, this is the beginning of the way it's going to be from now on. Baby, we got to talk about that part. The no-beard long hair. I know.

Sophia wanted to talk about feelings. I thought you were going to talk about romance. Okay. He looks like someone, and I cannot put my finger on it with the long-haired, no-beard, and it's killing me. He reminds me of Taylor Kitch on Friday Night Lights with his shaggy hair. Yeah, I could see that. It's like that same kind of energy.

It's slightly disproportionate. that either we need the beard and the hair or we need to shorten the hair just a little, even, it could still be shaggy and messy but I need it like a little closer to the Yeah, why didn't he pull it into a ponytail or something cute? Like a top knot. Hillary, you know ponytails aren't allowed

on one tree hill. That's right. Jojo could have been out there with her flat iron just fixed it. Making it's cute. Joy, what do you remember about shooting that stuff? Because you guys had to have like these blowups, you know? And your storyline is significantly more adult than all the rest of ours.

And so were you into it? Yeah, I think I was. I think I was because I was in a very serious place in my life personally where I was struggling a lot. So it was, I think it just kind of fit. It was an easy fit for me to, all those emotions were right at the top of the surface for me. So it was easy. And I thought it was fun. It was nice to do something different than just.

just being in love all the time, which is really what Nathan and Haley had done. You know, it was like the young high school drama and stress of this more playful stress and stress that we kind of knew it was always going to work out. Finded porn on his computer. Yeah. Yeah, feeling separated and wanting to be close to each other. But, yeah, it kind of hit close to home for me on that one. So I was, I've, yeah.

It felt good to go to work, and James was always such a great partner, such a great scene partner and fun to banter with. And then you throw Jackson in the mix. And so it was like we were having these jovial days on set when the cameras were off. And then as soon as they started rolling, we all had to be very serious. It was fun. I mean, James, when he's talking to Jamie and is like, Finally, like, you're trying to shoot some of these hoops? Watching Jackson, like, try not to get excited, but, like, being so good, too excited.

It was pretty cute, man. They're sweet, so sweet. But play basketball by the pool. Guys, don't do that with your kids. No, it's so dumb. I know that did give me a little bit of anxiety. But I liked, again, David Jackson, great choice. I liked that he had Jamie and me.

Nathan down on the patio level. And he kept Haley up at the door because we got to watch you watch your family. Yeah, it's all going to be okay. Yeah, it really clarified that there was this tableau happening and that she needed to take it in in the same way we as an audience were taking it in. And it was really, it was just such a simple choice of staging, but it communicated a lot. I really, really liked that. Do you think Haley buys it? Like, do you think Haley is like, okay, everything's better now, or do you think she's going to be a slow burn? I don't think, yeah, I don't think she buys it immediately. I think she really appreciates it and senses that he's sincere. But that's

kind of the thing about Nathan, too, is that he doesn't, he's not the kind of person that says he's going to do something and then doesn't do it. So I think she senses the authenticity of what he's saying and is looking forward to that process. But yeah, I think you also are probably, she's probably shell-shocked a little. Once you go through something like that, it's really hard when you see somebody continually go through a pattern of not believing in themselves and struggle and just not being able to get the strength to move forward and step out and something new. I'm sure she felt a little nervous that it wasn't going to really last. But it's the biggest stride he's made in like a year. Well, for sure. I mean, the audience gets to

see him visit Dan. The audience gets to know like, oh, he did a big thing today. And Haley just comes home and there's like a casserole. She doesn't know like the bigness of the day. But I don't know. I felt it. And maybe it's subconsciously. because I saw him, we saw him go to prison and we saw him jump out of the pool in the last episode of his arms up like Rocky and, you know, maybe. But I think, I think it's real when you live with the subtleties of someone who is struggling every day and you get used to that, when you see them cleaned up and feeling good and in a good place, it means a lot. You recognize it.

It may look different. but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric,

that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I can't wait to see the Nathan recovery. What do we think our honorable mention is for this episode? I mean, other than Paul's goatee? Or Haley's juicy tube lip glass? I was going to say Haley's dining room because Gus was like, that dining room is bullshit. There's no toys.

Like there's no way that child sat there. waiting for his mother to come home and there's not like Legos or just shit everywhere. Yeah, I know. That's funny. The cleanest dining room in Tree Hill. Yeah. Good for whoever cleaned that up.

Maybe that's Nanny Carey. Maybe she is magical. Magical and just a little bit nuts. It's hand in hand. I have one more honorable mention and it's when Haley gives Quentin the full download on the River court. I cannot tell you how happy I felt that you rattled off a bunch of education statistics

to him. I was like, this is it. You use math and truth about society to illustrate points to people to make them more invested in themselves and in the world around them. I feel so validated right now. Data. It was so, guys, it made me really happy and thanks for loving me because shit like that makes me happy. And then he just turns it into crude shit. I know. Yeah. Seeing him laugh in the first couple episodes was like, oh, he's like a good looking kid. You know, what a, what a charmer. And now it just feels really sad. Yeah. Yeah. So much insecurity and posturing. And you can see it. Robbie does such a good job. You can see that what Haley says gets to Quentin and then he just covers it. He just masks it and does the thing he knows how to do best. It's a really, it's a really subtle performance, but so, so good. I loved it. Should we spin a wheel?

I want to spin. What do we got? All right. This week we have most likely to. Oh, well, duh. Duh. This is a big duh. Huge, duh.

Most likely to have the best music playlist. Peyton's Sawyer. Peyton. Obviously. Obviously. My son has never really thought I was cool, but he thought I was cool tonight watching this episode. And I can't wait to force feed him all of my six seasons of the show just to enforce it.

But who in real life has the best playlist? You? Still you. I don't know. I wouldn't know about that. I'm trying to think. I just feel like you, I mean, you made, you're, you're the first part of your career was on music and you were interviewing, I mean, I guess musicians and actors and

whoever, but like, you still had so, you were at MTV. You had so much invested in history in music. I didn't have great music on TRL all the time, by the way. Fair enough. Fair enough. There were some real stinkers. I will say that like De Niels down in Austin were that music scene. I'm envious of that music scene. I would like to be around that. Um, she always has good bands. Yeah, that's who else. Who's in a band from our cast? Well, like, Tyler, duh.

Tyler. Oh, yeah, Tyler probably has the best playlist, I'm sure. Tyler and Kate Vogel, like, the people who actually hang out with musicians, I'm hanging out with soccer moms, man. Yeah. Well, I can't wait to see what happens to the next one. This was a nice lead-in to what the next adventures are going to be for all of our five favorite characters. Next week, season five, episode four.

it's all right ma i'm only bleeding great i think you should take a bye to mrs davis again i died bye mrs davis good saying you it's a perfect way to end an episode hey thanks for listening

don't forget to leave us a review you can also follow us on instagram at drama queens o t h or email us at drama queens at iHeartRadio.com see you next time we're all about that high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school queens we'll take you for a ride and our

comic girl drama girl cheering for the right team drama queens drama queens smart girl rough girl fashion but you'll tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens it may look different but native culture is alive my name is nicole garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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