Drama Queens - Ghost Pudding • EP 803

Episode Date: January 20, 2025

The Drama Queens dive deep into the peculiarities of a recent scene involving the ghost of Will, and discuss the hilarious (and awkward) hook-up between Mouth and Millie. They also weigh in on Victoria’s prison storyline, drawing comparisons to a certain celebrity’s time behind bars.   Plus, Rob and Joy share mortifying stories about accidentally texting the wrong people.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Pretty cool, all three of us in the house to talk about a banger of an episode. Hi, guys. Hey, everybody. Wasn't it, though? This was a heavy episode. This was heavy. I just want to say thank you to you both. And also to all of our listeners who've been just, like, reaching out and so kind while we are scrambling in L.A. this week, you know.

Yeah. trying to like support our people and figure out how to get things to our friends who've like literally lost everything. And also I'm like, wow, we had to come back in at 803. Like I just cried through this whole episode. I was like, I am a raw nerve. I'm so emotional. And I sobbed and I can't wait to talk to you guys about it and cry for the next hour. Everything's going to be great. We unpacked a lot in this episode and tied a lot of loose ends and opened up a lot of wounds. Yeah. I guess before we dive in, let's let's let everyone know what we watched. Season 8, episode three, the space in between. aired in September 28th, 2010. Synopsis reads,

as a situation at the hospital worsens, Nathan makes a huge decision regarding his career. Does he ever? Brooke and Julian take Jamie for the day, while Victoria and Millicent hatch a plan, directed by Greg Prange, and it was written. Yes. This episode was so good. And I also, I have some, like, I have some funny questions. But yes, but let's talk about, it was a lot. I loved the intro.

Yes. The narrative intro that we brought in season one heavy and it kind of dissipated over the years. I was so happy to see that return. Me too. And it felt really nice to watch it, particularly. through your eyes, like all the things Haley's been processing to see this great kind of self-care practice to watch you journaling and, you know, feeling your feelings in this really healthy way and bringing back that season one nostalgia at the same time. I was like,

oh, this feels like a really nice moment to be it. It's a clever device for emotional exposition. It's the type of exposition I don't mind at all because it's allowing us a peek inside Haley's head in a very organic, believable way. Yeah, because it's just when they try and write that stuff into dialogue

it usually feels pretty canned. So it's nice, it's nice when it feels organic. You know, I like that. And it wasn't just from Haley too. We got Mouth doing his narration throughout as he was talking about the different sports movies and that felt really good. And it was seamless.

It didn't feel forced at all. And it was really cool, too, that Mouth's podcast feels, again, so nostalgic for early high school days of him, you know, commentating and calling games. And it's this really beautiful mirror, this story that he's telling, mirroring what's happening to Clay and Quinn. And it sort of reminds you that even though this is such a specific. experience our characters are going through that it's sort of a tale as old as time, right? Like someone is on the razor's edge of will they live or will they die and everyone in their

own way can understand that kind of pain. And I don't know. The whole thing, I loved hearing the narration, whether it was your journaling or his storytelling. Also, kudos to mouth for being way ahead of the podcast curve. Yeah. I was so surprised. I watched that. I went, okay, cool. He was a podcast. And I thought, wait, this was like 15 years ago.

He was way ahead of this time. That's because Millie's reaction is like, oh, you have a podcast now. Yeah, that's right. I do. I sure do. Did Fallout Boy sing this episode's theme song? Oh, I was wondering who it was. That might be it.

I was too. I thought because we have a relationship or the show had a relationship with Pete, Maybe that was the case. Wait, yes, is the answer from the booth. Patrick Stump, so says our producer. A lot of shows at this time we're doing this, this, covering their, what do you call it, theme song, covering their theme songs with other bands. And I don't know if it was a trend or if it was a licensing thing.

Like they just wanted to save money on not having to pay Gavin on the licensing of the original recording. And so they bring in cover bands. so it's like a fraction of the price. I'm sure that was appealing, but it was also kind of a trend. We'll never know. I will say, and this is not a knock on them at all,

but because the episode is so emotional, and then we hit the like fallout boy punk rock cover. I was like, what's happening? This feels wrong. I thought Michelle Featherstone did one coming up, too, that it was much more like piano, balladies. Yeah. Could we not have flip-loft?

I was like, maybe. we should have saved this for a fun episode and I had like a power ballad in this moment when we're listening to Haley's inner most emotional thoughts. No? It felt like a really sort of disassociative choice. Yeah. And if you're going to make this Fallout Boys episode, put it at the very beginning of the episode. Don't bury it 12 minutes in. Yeah. Agreed. That was odd. It was a weird choice. I want to know what your funny questions are, Rob. Okay. I bet I want to One of them is the same. I'm going to say this.

This episode for me nailed everything in the human realm. It raised a lot of questions for me in the ghost limbo world. Okay. Like, first of all, why is he eating pudding? And how is he eating pudding? Clay's friend, right? Yeah. I have his name written down here somewhere.

Will. Will. Thank you. It's this odd thing, right? Well, because first of all, we've done the ghosting with Katie, with Amanda Shul. And Keith. Yeah. And Keith.

And the whole kind of rule is like, you can't touch people. They can't hear you. You can have your own business. But like Amanda was doing her nails one time. So she was painting her nails. So maybe ghosts have access to cosmetics, who knows little things, bobs and bits. But it was so weird. First of all, the first interaction between Will and Clay is odd.

That it's, they start to talk, but within like four lines, Will is talking about how hot Quinn is. Yeah. It just gets real, like, it gets real bro-y, very fast. And then Clay is kind of like rolling with it and they're riffing. And then Clay's like, oh, can you feel it if I hit you? And he like, I gently hit him on the arm. And I'm just thinking.

Like, if you're in limbo, and you've never met this person. It just felt really familiar in light, given the gravity of the situation. First person he's meeting. It's actually really interesting because I liked that it started light. My first note was that I really like seeing Clay in his element, even though he's between worlds, commenting on the haircuts, warning the guy about the will. Like, it felt really fun. and upbeat and what it did for me as a viewer was let me see that you were adjusting and that you were kind of in this space and that you'd figured out a little bit of a routine. And then the

surprise that someone could hear you, that someone was there with you really registered for me because without having to hear how many days you'd been unconscious, I could tell you'd been there a while. And then, I mean, side note, not, you know, for our show, but also for our show, I was just so excited to see Edwin because he's like, you know, one of my dearest friends and now married to one of my best friends from us all going and doing Good Sam together. That's where he and Sky met. And so I just was like, oh my God, my angel and he's a baby. Like, it's so, I don't know, it was just so sweet to see. And while I thought that the writing about him commenting on Quinn being hot was lame like duh look who wrote our show like okay we're not surprised but i thought you guys did a

really great job immediately when you had the weirdness of oh you can see me and hear me and i can see you and hear you what the hell like you did almost have i know you said it was broie but it almost felt like childish to me in a sweet way because it's completely bizarre and it's like you suddenly have an imaginary friend or something i liked what you two brought to it even though, yeah, their writing could have been better in every measure in that opener for you. I agree with you, Sof, I bought it. I thought that, I mean, existentially, if you're, if you actually woke up and found yourself in that place and you were lonely there for a long time to the point where you were just starting to like settle in and talk trash to people that you're passing by in the hallway and like, well, I guess I'm going to make the best of this, suddenly there's another person. And you're like, whoa, this is amazing.

We can have something to talk about. And the other person's like chill and cool. I don't know. I feel like you would be so stripped of your emotional propriety that we all behave so well in society and the way we go about. And conversations follow a flow and you don't get that deep too fast. And I just think all that would probably go out the window here. And so for me, him like commenting on Quinn, I mean, yes, conceptually gross. But, like, the essence of broiness so quickly, I totally bought it.

Well, and I think also Edwin was great. We only had this together, but I had such a great time with him. So please tell him I say hello. Because we did. We had fun. It was a really fun thing to do together. And I think you're right. Because there's also, you know, when you're just super lonely?

Like, I remember, I think it was like during COVID at one point. Like, I hadn't talked to anyone, but Jenny in ages. is, and I, like, went to the grocery store for the first time or something, and I remember I was so eager to interact with another human being that that poor cashier got a thousand questions from. I was like, do you like gum? What have you been up to? How are you? Do you want to hear about what's going on with me? You've got a one of a 15th person that day who had done that, too, by the way. Yeah. So to that end, I completely understand, like, Clay just being like, great, let's be pals. But again, this isn't my, these aren't my, my beast. My main one was, I was, I was just so

confused in a later scene, why Will is eating pudding? Yeah. He's in limbo, right? That's what kid. That would make sense if like when he's alive, if that's his favorite snack, sure. But what was odd about it was, it was in the direction. He's eating it. I'm like, all right, whatever.

It's activity for him. But then he sets it on the counter at the end of the scene. We exit frame and the camera stays on the pudding. So I was, I'm like, like, Chekhov's. gun like okay how is the pudding going to be weaved into the storytelling right it's not no no no just didn't have a better shot so here's your ghost pudding limbo pudding i think the intention might have been to land the camera on the nurse who does not notice the pudding being put in front of her because it's ghost pudding and it was like clarifying for the audience it's ghost pudding don't worry we're still

following our own rules but i don't know that that was the most important thing in the scene so probably we could have made a different choice. Could we name, could the title of this episode, this podcast episode, be ghost pudding? I think it should be. I just feel like that's going to draw on a lot of interest. That's going to peak people's interest. They're going to want to hear it. Yeah, I'm on board with this.

Okay, so these are your existential questions with the episode. Is that it? And by the end of it, I mean, I enjoyed the dynamic. It just caught me off guard, I think, because I was so bought in. to what was happening in the real world, Nathan's pain, Haley's pain, Quinn, oh my gosh, Chantel was so good this episode. She carried this episode. All of her stuff, especially the bedside stuff, was just so good.

I think that was why I bumped is because I was so all in for that ride that when it got light and went to a different area, it took me a bit to sort of like adjust, if that makes sense. Yeah, I get it. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream listen to burn sage burn bridges on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts let's talk about chantelle for a second uh that performance was so beautiful oh it is um it's hard on show tv

where a lot of your work lives in shoulders up or waist up and there's an element of performing where it's like you're still interacting with the environment and it's just hard to trust that the camera is going to really catch everything that's on your face. I guess I should say this is TV in the early odds because now TV is much more like film. But back then, film was where you go to get that real close-up chin to forehead shot of somebody having an emotion and all they had to do is have a thought and if they had an authentic thought,

the audience reads the thought. And on TV at that time, especially shows like ours where a lot of it was more environmental in terms of the landscape of what was on your screen, it just felt like you had to do a little bit more and we were always being directed to do more.

Could you just like cry more? Could you just like make a little bit more? it a little more obvious that you're sad? It wasn't enough just to have the thought. And I loved that in this episode, Chantelle was allowed to just feel and she didn't have to like perform the emotive expectation. It was like she just showed up and felt and we saw it all. And it wasn't too much. It was just all you to do is put the camera right up on her face and just let her think it and feel it. It was so good. It was so nice that they spent so much time in close up on her because you see her riding these waves of emotion and by the end when she's absolutely cracking because everyone thinks

they're going to lose clay I mean it just was so visceral and so heartbreaking and what I actually thought and I get why you're saying your your stuff being light kind of took you out of it because of the intensity of what she was experiencing what I actually I loved that as a viewer that you were sort of not registering how serious it was until you saw her register it. And it like broke me. Her heartbreak was so visceral. And then to see you see it on her, it was like a double whammy for me as a viewer. And I was just sobbing through like the whole end of the episode. And I just thought you guys were so, it was so, so good. I agree. Yeah, I thought her. stuff was awesome and you're right there's such a power and restraint we've talked about this with her

before playing the edge like not crying but fighting the cry you know that sort of there's such a power and an interest like that's that lean in moment where the audience is like oh you know and lean into their TVs and yeah she killed it it was great and I just as a viewer this episode was just fun for me yeah I was rooting for people I was worried I loved that when Clay opened his eyes his first line you look pretty. Oh, so sweet. I thought that was so awesome. I like how they tied it up with Will, you know,

because there was that little scary moment where it's like, uh-oh, is it Clay who's crashing, you know? Yeah. But you did great, Rob. I could tell that you were playing, getting weaker and weaker, which, you know,

as a viewer gives you hope, like, oh, Clay's coming back to life in the real world. But it also made me sad because Will was standing up and feeling like he had more emotional. I mean, clearly you guys were very intention. about the way you were playing those scenes in the end. Yeah, so that, all of that stuff was great.

The mouth and milly stuff was funny because that first shot, I'm sure we all laughed at this. The first shot of them, the cameras above them and they're laying in bed, was your thought immediately, where are the pillows? No, my thought was I hate when I'm laying down and the cameras up on top of me on a crane. I'm always afraid it's going to fall. Yeah, on your face. Yes.

Remember when that happened to Britney Spears back in the day? What? The video she did, I can't remember what song it was, but she was in the, like, red latex, like, long-sleeved turtleneck into pants, outfit. No, way before then, like, first album. Red latex. And it was a whole thing where they had been filming above her and the camera, like, fell and cut her face.

Oh, my God. Yeah. Yeah, see, I'm terrified. I feel like all of us who are our age, like, at least for me, I, every time after that a camera went over us, I was like, are you sure it's like really secure? Like, did you yank on it? The video was, oops, I did it again. It was, I did it again, yes. It was.

Yes. And, oh, I just, I, I, I, that fear also, joy, yes. But I didn't, the pillows didn't bump me, Rob, and the reason is because the, for, for, First of all, the comedy of you and I having this, like, quiet aside in the hallway, and you being like, are they back together? And I'm like, no. And then it cuts to them, both looking shocked at what's happened. In my brain, there were no pillows because they'd had, like, a very wild romp.

Yes. And they were like, oh, God, what did we do? Like, oh, my goodness. And it sort of fed to me, like, they're in the center of the mattress. There's no pillows. They're both clearly, you know, meant to look butt. naked there's so much space between them like every every choice in how they blocked that scene was funny to me so when mouth said to her so i guess last night we must have and she says yeah

i guess so isn't isn't she sober isn't she not drinking or doing drugs supposed to be okay yeah it was a little confusing also is he not he's not with lauren right no and she's not with anybody. I took her being like, yeah, I guess so, almost ironically. Like, you both clearly know what you did. And I don't know. The comedy of the way then when they get up and they start asking questions, but they don't finish them. And it's like they couldn't finish a sentence. And then did he say thank you to her at one point? I didn't notice. That's funny. It was just so, the whole thing was so funny to me. And even when she questioned. him about Lauren. Like, she couldn't finish the question. And then he said, no, but then he didn't

finish the rest of the answer. And the awkwardness of them, I thought, was really, they play so well together. They're both so comedically talented. And it was nice to have some levity outside of the hospital sentence. Yeah. Those two are the, I think in any other circumstance, I would be like, I don't understand what the big deal is. Why are you being so awkward? You guys have been together before. Like, you, you, that was the whole thing in your relationship. You were in a relationship for a long time. People get together with their exes all the time. What's the big deal? But the two of them in particular are both such awkward characters that I leaned into it with them. It was fun. Yeah. I loved it. I nailed it. Also, did Lee get into really good shape this season? Was I the only one who was

when Lee was laying in bed? I know. Okay, Lee looking like a snack. You're like, he's chacked. Tan, all tan. Yeah. Yeah, that was probably the year he bought that house. out at somewhere on the beach, right? Didn't he get a house on like figure eight or someplace out there with he, I don't know when he got married, but I feel like there was a year he got a house on the beach and was like living the beach life and probably started working out on the beach and he was out getting tan every day. Our show, I think this is probably all TV in general, but people have never looked more beautiful after a night of sex and gallivanting than on our show. Lisa looked like a Disney princess.

Yeah. Always, but especially. I mean, I just thought she doesn't even have a comb there and look at her. She looks like she's ready to walk a runway. Yeah. She did look amazing in this episode. And so did definitely, by the way. And interesting, too, that posts romp, to your point.

It's not like no one on our show has smeared mascara or, like, hair looking crazy or whatever. it's like, I don't know. Hair and makeup really took good care of us this season. They did. There's never once been sex hair on the show that I've been aware of. Well, and by the way, even Chantel waking up, like, from a coma, essentially, looks like an angel in the bed. Her skin is glowing. Her hair is so shiny and beautiful.

Hair and makeup was just like, yeah, we're going to lean in. We're just, we're going to really, we're going to buff up our resumes. I will say she, I feel like I got, I got done a little dirty because we see her first in the hospital and she looks like an angel in a coma, right? Yeah. And then we see me and for some reason, my breathing tube, it was like it was two inches too short. It's in the corner of my mouth, but it's pulling my mouth down. So every time, like my hair is clearly just fresh out of hair and makeup. Like it is, it's teased, it's feathered.

You got the wolfman feather over your ears going on during that. I mean, it was really precise. Quite long sideburns as well this season. But yeah, my tube, it's just pulling out of my mouth. I'm like, oh, why she got the good tube? Meanwhile, I looked like a mess. Did you also notice when the moment when Clay is finally standing in his hospital room watching himself, that the obvious stand-in or double that they got for me had hair that did not look like mine.

at all. Yeah. I missed it completely. Yeah. Oh, no. It's, it's, it looks like it's James's stand in. Like, it's very just like normal sort of combed over hair. It's not the bad boy, you know, teasing, piecey.

There really are times when going back and watching our show, I'm like, did you, was the assumption just that you thought no one was going to notice? Like, your, your stand in clearly is not even adjacent. to you. And it reminds me of that early episode. Rob, this is before you joined us, but there's an early episode where I don't remember what season it is now, because we are obviously eight years in, but James and Chad are in a convertible together. And there is a wide shot of the two stunt drivers. And Chad's stunt driver is like a 40-year-old man in a wig. And they just left it. The wigs are so bad. And we all.

we're like, hold on, who are those people? But particularly who is that man who does not look anything like a teenage boy? Yeah, it was funny. I don't know. We've had a couple of these over the years, and I'm like, guys, people do, people who watch shows generally watch them with their eyes. So they see these mistakes you're making very clearly on the camera. Well, listen, that, the convertible bit, that's egregious. Like, that you've got to get right.

I will say in defense of the show, I think the average viewer is so on board with the storytelling in that moment that their focus isn't the silhouette of the standing. Yeah, I was looking at you. Yeah, because we're looking at you. Yes, yeah. So, I mean, like, we're nitpicking, but I mean,

like, but that convertible bit, come on. That's the only thing happening in that scene. It was so bad. Speaking of hospitals, how long ago did viewing windows in the maternity section Stop being a thing. I'm so glad we're talking about this.

Because when I watched that, I thought, first of all, I've never seen that in my lifetime that I recall. No. It's a wild, I mean, that's definitely doesn't happen anywhere. Yes.

It was made for fathers who were not allowed in the delivery rooms to go be able to look at their newborn babies. Yeah. But was that still happening 15 years ago?

I don't think so. I don't think so, but TV shows love it. Like any TV show where there's a hospital. They probably still have one on Grays, right? Yeah, I don't know, actually, if there is one there. But maybe if I think about it, I don't overlap on that show with, like, maternity at all. I'm like, I'm doing trauma surgery, so I never see that side of the hospital.

I'll ask Camilla, she'll know. Yeah. But it is really, it's so funny to me that, like, anytime there's any version of a family show at hospital. You got to look through the glass at the babies. All the babies that were silicone babies, except for like the three that were alive, which was cute. And then the one they did the close-up on who was clearly like a six-month-old child. Like not a newborn. Trying to crawl out. That was funny. Well, I mean, having just recently been in a maternity ward, I mean, they are under lockdown. Like, you need a key hospital.

Okay, so we're hearing from the booth that hospitals phased out these viewing windows in the early 2000s. Okay, so we've got in just before the buzzer. Feasible, the tree hill one could have been, you know, it's a smaller town. It's a small town. Sure, older, older facility. I'll buy it. Yeah, I buy it. But nowadays, I mean, you've, it's, you're not like slipping in.

It's a process to get in all the babies are kept with the parents. This was like a real thing. There were a lot of kids that got switched at birth. Yes. Did you guys see the dateline about it? How many of them? I mean, there's probably multiple, but there's one that I watched actually to prep for the movie that I shot last year

because that's essentially what the whole story revolves around. Oh. And it, this, I mean, the stories, it's so crazy that this used to happen to people. Can you imagine? I mean, I guess you had to imagine. Yeah. Holy shit. Yeah.

Oh, dude. The amount of. unpacking you have to do to wrap your head around that? What? And like, do you want to know or not? Like, that's such a question in the premise of this film. Because it's like, why would you, you know, the kids are essentially like, why would you tell me this?

But, you know, now because of genetic testing and all the things, it's like, it's about your health. It's about your health history. And, oh, man, it is just such a mindful. well that took a turn well if you're just joining us welcome back to switched at birth and ghost pudding it may look different but native culture is very alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture it was a huge honor to become a television writer because it

does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people, people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I love to see a vulnerable dude. I like to see a guy filling all of his feelings. It was great, all of it. I love that he wanted to volunteer for his buddy. I was confused, though, when he says, I want to donate if I'm, you know, a good candidate. And the doctor says, if you give him your kidney, your basketball career will be over. Yeah, no explanation on that.

The only thing I could think of, did it have to do with his degenerative back condition that he mentions to you later in the episode? But the doctor doesn't know about that. No. So is the recovery from a kidney transplant? Just so long that it might just like take him out of the game because by the time he got ready to play again, he'd be too old? Maybe. Or do we think it's because he was in that terrible accident and got sidelined as a player? Because he's a hometown hero, is the doctor basically like, you've made it back into the NBA once?

you won't make it back into the NBA twice. It felt like a dangle of a carrot that really, I was like, no, no, no, but what, like, I need more information and it just never came. Even if Nathan had, if it was in the script for him to like give the doctor a quizzical look, like, what do you mean? You know, and then we could see him explaining it to Haley in the next scene or just something would have been nice, a little explanation.

Or a very easy fix would be have the doctor say instead of if you do this, your career is over, have the doctor just say, if you do this, there's a good chance your career is over. Like, you know what I mean? It was so definitive. And because this is a doctor we've never seen on the show, it was, so it's like, I don't believe he's intimately aware of all of Nathan's health stuff. So it was just odd to me, like how definitive it was.

It's also like, look how young and healthy James looks. He's not a 40-year-old still grinding it out in the league. Like, he's so young and in such good shape. So that's why I was just confused, like, is it, is it that nightly of a recovery? Could have brought in his old doctor who also works in the maternity ward, apparently. He also could work in the trauma ward. I mean, this guy's just all over the hospital. Everywhere.

I would have bought that too. But James was great. When we got to, when there's the storyline where James is injured and he grows the lieutenant Dan Beard, did you guys just have a field day talking about that? Yes. that as a viewer that was incredible that was fun we need to bring back the beard oh my god was it odd when james excuse me when nathan is he goes and he washes clay's car i was like awesome very sweet move and then he's driving it and then he pulls over and he walks up to a to walk yeah he walks over

to the fence to watch horses run and that's where he breaks down i totally bought that too i loved it No, didn't bump on it for one second because it's something I would do. Like you're just stuck in your body when you feel that kind of pain and when I do anyway, it's like I feel this pain that's like I don't know how to get it out. Maybe I'll run and maybe I'll yell. That doesn't work. Maybe I'll get in my car and just drive and that's not working. And then I see something that's so beautiful. And often it's something that's, it's often beauty that will break me and allow me to like release the pain.

not activity or being aggressive or thinking my way out of it, but just standing in front of something beautiful will crack me and then I'm just like a puddle. So I related to that. I love your explanation. That's great. My confusion was, in my head I was going, he's like stuffing these feelings down

and they're right there simmering below the surface. And rather than just pull over and cry, he's like, I'm going to hold it together for 10 more seconds so I can walk over those horses and cry while I watch them run. That's why I went like, it's a little TV that he was, instead of just crying in the car, he's like, nah,

I want to go watch these majestic creatures gallop and weep. I would. I liked it. I know, that's the thing. Like, I'm such a horse girl that when he started, when the horses started, I was like, here it comes. It's like when you know the dog is going to die in like the disaster movie, you're just like, it's going to happen and it's going to ruin my whole day.

like he got out and saw the horses and I was I was a puddle I was like and there it is yeah it would have been great if someone walked up and was like hey mister are you okay and he was just like sir I just love horses so much man they're just so beautiful oh I did love that I kind of wish that scene would have lasted a little bit longer I just needed a little more of a of a break in it there because it was good for me as a viewer too I felt Like I got to release a little bit of pain, a little just watching nature take its course, watching, like, thinking about what a cog in the wheel we all are. Yeah. How nothing is certain and for us any more than it is for wild horses in a field.

Yeah. You know. When you really have to feel your helplessness. Yeah. It's so confronting to realize that all these things that we just think will work. We don't know. Like, we don't, we don't know anything moment to moment. And, you know, it, I don't know, the sort of respite, as a viewer, getting to be with Nathan in his solitude, in his break from it all, like getting outside and going for a drive and realizing he wanted to be in the car, but he didn't want to be in the car.

It's exactly that thing you're talking about, Joy. like nothing's quite making you feel better and you don't know which way to turn next. Yeah. And getting to be quiet with him was really nice for me in an episode that was so emotional with so much talking and so much crying and so much information. It was like I felt like I kind of got to take a deep breath with him. And I thought it was a cool, yeah, it was kind of a cool device. He's been holding it together for everybody for so long. Yeah.

Since Lydia's death. Another nice counterbalance was the Brooke Julian Jamie stuff. Yeah. There's such a fun ease with the three of you. And also, you know, because we're sort of feeling like, oh, there's, they're not going to be able to have kids together to see you. Like what natural good parents you are to him is just, and just, it's just fun. You know, that lightness is great. Yeah.

All that dialogue felt so natural too. There was nothing forced. It all felt really good. Yeah, it was all so sweet. And one of the things I really like about it is, you know, it's exactly what happens. People go through something. And, you know, it's what we talked about it when we got on, you know, at the beginning of the show. Like, it's what everyone's doing in L.A. right now.

It's like, can I pick up your kids? Can I bring you a meal? Do you need me to bring you a change of clothes? Like, everybody needs to help when you're in crisis in different ways. and even just, you know, you being able to say to me, like, well, you just take him for the day. Like, get the kid some joy. He needs some happiness. He's got to get out of here.

It's dark here. And being able to take a kid to play and just giving him a normal day. It's like all these different expressions of this group of friends being so kind to each other and taking care of each other. It's so sweet. I left this episode feeling like, oh, this is what the show's about. Like there's a lot of things happening But this is a show about friendship Yeah

Yeah In this episode It was just very very clear And front and center But yeah that moment We said can you just take him To when Haley says that to Brooke I just thought

Oh like what What a luxury It is to have someone That you trust And love enough To just take your kid for a day And to ask that of them And have them go

I got you Yeah It's gonna be great See you Nice And it was really sweet, too, to get out, you know, on the baseball field. Like, I remember that day. I remember the temperature.

Sports attire on Brooke is, like, a favorite I didn't know that I needed in my life. I'm like, why has she not been designing sports attire? This was such a good look for you. Thank you. Beside the point, but go ahead. No, it was so fun. And the funny part is we only had one of those hats, the C over B orange hats. We made one.

And when we wrapped, I kept it. And then during the early days of the pandemic, when I was fostering dogs, trying to just help the city, one of the puppies chewed up the bill of my hat. And I was like, no, like, I've kept this hat pristine for 10 years. And then it wound up in a puppy's mouth and got shredded. And I was like, oh. Somebody out there would still wear it. yeah i was like i mean i still have it i and you know me i'm so like emotionally attached to things but i um i was definitely like oh look at look at my hat before it got destroyed it was cute

i liked it i also like that jamie has baseball skills but he's like no i want to i want to play basketball like my dad the one thing i thought we didn't do that we should have was like be like but buddy you're like you're short like your mom baseball might have to be your thing, kid. Let's be realistic, kid. I just don't know if it's in the cards for you, being the NBA, buddy. Yeah, that would have been fun to see Julian just sort of take him under his wing there and be like, let me give you a little practical advice.

Hang on, young one. Speaking of friendship and just the modeling of what that looks like, I mean, Nathan making, being willing to make such a huge sacrifice. Yeah. That's a massive sacrifice to be willing to give up the potential of. of your dream, even though his dream seemed like it was waning and had a ceiling on it, time limit on it, to still do that for a friend to save a friend's life is a incredible statement of character and so many other things.

And Victoria taking on the sacrifice of responsibility, I guess, or not passing the buck and making sure that she says to brook in the diner in the beginning uh somebody who spoke to somebody else blah blah who spoke to half of the federal government and she just threw it out there like you know we we've just dealt with it we've talked to everybody in the government so just everyone out there in the government all of them you've solved it all yeah all of her stuff was great but my favorite was the last shot of her walking into the big house wearing a pair of louis batons Yes, I wrote it down too. I was like, it's pure poetry for Victoria. I mean, I'll tell you who I'm not worried about in prison, Victoria Davis. She's going to be just fine. And her laughing that it's like, you know, it's essential, what did she say? It's essentially a country club. I was like, okay, Martha Stewart. It's prison mother. I wrote that one down too. So good. Yeah. It's essentially a country club. It's so funny. What I would have given. Not that she probably would have wanted to do it, but she's also so cool. Maybe she would have.

What I would have given for them to have gotten a scene between Victoria Davis and Martha Stewart in their fancy high-end white-collar prison, like, I would give anything. That would have been worth every amount of money that they would have put onto it. Yeah, like just take the budget of season nine, Martha. Take it. Yes. Please. For one cameo. Give Victoria the prison tips. because clearly Martha Stewart, like, crushed her prison stay.

For sure. What would, oh, man, what would the lines have been, like, the dialogue of Victoria walking in and seeing her, like, just the cattyness between the two of them. They were to come out BFF. Oh, yeah. She, prison changed her. Well, air quotes, prison changed her for the better. I mean, she came out and then did a cooking show with Snoop Dog. Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, they're best friends. Oh, yeah. It's adorable. when this is going to be like the weirdest thing I've ever said, but you guys know I'm a nerdy climate science person. And years ago, I got to visit the global seed vault in Norway. And it was like the coolest thing I've ever done.

And of course, like in this group of 50 people who got to sit with all these experts and talk about the future of food, Martha Stewart flew in for a day and walked in. And I was like, you're literally the most beautiful person I've ever seen in my life. I want you to tell me how to do everything. like I have so many questions that I froze. I don't think I spoke for like the first half of the one day that she was there with us. And we're in, we're like essentially in a glacier talking about the seeds being protected for the global food supply. And I sh-you-not.

Martha Stewart looks at this scientist and goes, you know, my friend Snoop Dogg, if he were here, would ask why you guys are not storing marijuana seeds yet. It's an incredibly important plant, not only for flora and fauna, but medicine. So what are your plans there? And I was like, I've truly just witnessed probably the coolest thing that will ever happen to me in my life. And I will remember it forever. And I don't think I'll ever see something this neat like ever again anywhere. And I was like, oh, it's like really a thing. She's like asking expert scientists for information she can take home and relay to Snoop about how we're going to protect Mary.

marijuana plants. 10 out of 10. 10 out of 10. This is why I'm like, I need a Victoria Davis-Martha-Stewart crossover in my life. I just actually think I actually think I just need more Martha Stewart. Where is that show now? Could we just do that?

Like Victoria had to go to prison again. And when she came out, I mean, I guess it was too long ago. Dang. But please, where is that show? In my notes, I have Victoria goes to the big house. This is the spin-off I want. Yes. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. Guys, let's add it to the notes. Let's go. Definitely still looks exactly the same. We'll just pick up right where we left off. Yeah. I love it. It's also so sweet having this moment between Brooke and Victoria.

The thing that kind of made me go, oh, you know, I remember thinking, wait, Victoria's going to go to prison. I forgot about this. But the thing that really hit me was seeing. how far their relationship has come when I get to look at her and say, I don't want you to go. Yeah. Like this girl who had no relationship with her mom for so long, they're in such a wonderful place that she doesn't want to lose her. And it, you know, to your point earlier, this, the best of our show is when it's about

these friendships and these relationships. And it's so cool to see the growth between these two women. and the fact that they genuinely like being together. I felt that in, when you were just saying goodbye to her at the prison, you drove her to the gate and you got out of your car. And the way you were standing, you were like pigeon-toed and your arms were just straight down at your side. It was such a vulnerable, sweet little girl posture,

like a little girl losing her mom again. I was so sad. I've been loving Victoria this season and her becoming a mom to you, but I found myself one. wondering, so it's obviously, it's landing and having an effect on me, but I found myself wondering how the payoff must have been even better for everyone that's watched the show to this point, because what I've missed is how many seasons of her not being a good mom to you? Yeah.

So the payoff must have been extraordinary for like proper fans from day one, right? Oh, yeah. Legendarily the worst, other than Dan Scott, like the worst parent. in Tree Hill, just completely abandoned, didn't show up, would float in, float out, drop her kid off here, like boarding school. I don't think she ever went to boarding school, but, you know, like here on this vacation. Yeah, let me move in with other families. Yeah, just like, whatever, I don't care. I mean, she just did not raise you. Yeah. Um, yeah, so it, you're right, big, huge payoff. That's, that's, that's one of the great benefits of a show that lasts this long. You really can stretch those out.

So good. How about honorable mention? Oh, yeah. Will. Edwin's was just, he was just so great. His performance was so beautiful and really grounding. And I'm so glad we had a space to let Clay talk and not just to himself or to people who couldn't hear him, but really have a dialogue with somebody. That was great.

Yeah, I co-assign. It's Edwin for me as well. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornellen. who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcast. or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, well, we've got a question, and it reads, Hello, this is Vexer. My question for Joy and Sophia is about the contest that phone company Vonnage ran for season two. Wait, what? Viewers got to vote via text message to decide whether or not Nathan would cheat on Haley with Taylor, the question is, was there actually a scene filmed where Nathan and Taylor kissed or were the votes tallied up before the decision was made to film either of those scenes? Do you remember this?

I do not remember this. I don't. I don't either. And I wonder if maybe it was just a ruse. Maybe they said it might happen, but they never intended on it. I don't actually know. But that wouldn't surprise me if they were like. oh, we're going to do this big thing for press and we'll just say that the fans voted no no matter

what. I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Are they legally allowed to do that? I don't know. I mean, as a business, if you say that you're going to do, if you're like selling a product based on, obviously it happens all the time, but I don't know what, I don't know what the rules are there. I don't know. I don't either. Well, but it's also not, I mean, it's, I guess, yes, we're filming the show. The outcome potentials are real. But, you know, it's not like a dancing with the stars or something, where you're voting for people who make it based on the votes in real time. So, yeah, I mean, we had to have the writer's room.

We had to schedule actors. We had to. I wonder if James will remember. Maybe they did film two scenes. I think we should text him and ask. Yeah, I don't, you guys have your phone on you? But it's also pretty Hollywood to. like propose something like that with no actual intention of falling through.

Do you remember George Clooney Batman? It's called Batman and Robin. Yeah. There was a ton of press for it at the time because they said we don't, we want an unknown for Robin. So we are opening casting calls around the nation in all the major cities to to unearth our next Robin. And do you know who ended up being Robin? Chris O'Donnell. Chris O'Donnell.

Not an unknown. The opposite of an unknown. Known. Yes. In fact, Marlon Waynes was Robin first, and then he went out for creative differences, and then Chris O'Donnell. So they had two cracks at it after seeing the nation and went, nah, we're going to stick with the known commodity. Well, not a bad decision, though. Chris O'Donnell was great.

Infinitely likable. Oh, infinitely. Should we spin a wheel? Let's do it. I like seeing them all. Oh, why some of these are spinning. Really funny. Most likely to accidentally text the wrong group chat.

Oh, my God, that is such a fear for me. Me too. That's a nightmare. I tell you what, it's the kind of mistake you only make once. Yeah. Because it is, I did it once and it was mortifying. Except it wasn't even a group. I text the guy I was.

texting about? I was talking about it. Oh, no. Yeah. Yeah. Was it obvious? Oh, my gosh. I called him out by name.

I was like, hey, so-and-so, like I said something like, so-and-so is inviting himself so hard. It's like he's organizing the event. Oh, my God. Rob, I want to die. Yeah. This was a long time ago, but still, and I had to. Are you guys still friends? No.

No. No, we're not. That wasn't what ended it, though. But I immediately was like. Hey, sorry. But I'll never forget. I was standing in Spain, studying abroad, standing in a grocery store, trying to check out multitasking and just wasn't thinking, sent the text, and then immediately was like, all the blood drained from my body. Oh, my God.

It's so awful. Nope. I've texted my ex, love you, babe. That was meant for my current boyfriend at the time. Isn't that horrendous? Did they reply? No, I mean, it was just like I followed up like, sorry that wasn't for you. That was not for you. He's like, take me out of your phone. This is the 10th time you've done this. It hurts every time.

Oh, no. You got to change that name if they're too similar. Throw an emoji at the front of it or something. They weren't. It was just that I had to be talking to both of them around the same on the same day for different reasons and just went. Sof, have you ever done it? I had someone do that with me. Oh, no. And I was like, oh, and it was really interesting because it was someone who was a friend for a while. And then when our show started was not a friend anymore because, you know, I don't know.

Probably weird. You know, we were all in our early 20s. It's like, I think weird when one of your friends like winds up on a giant cult classic TV show, whatever. but we had a mutual friend for a long time who had invited this person to a birthday that I also went to and since this person just like is not involved in our group of high school friends at all because my friend who hosted the birthday was like she's a mean girl like why are we continuing to try to do this like we're just bad at boundaries but at my friend's birthday

this, like, sort of ex-friend got very inebriated and cried about feeling so horrible about, like, these things that had happened and whatever. And I was like, wow, that's really nice. Like, we should maybe make a plan. Another friend was getting married. So I was like, we had this whole conversation about, like, maybe around so-and-so's bridal shower. We'll, like, get a coffee and talk and see if there's, like, salvaging to do here. So around the bridal shower, I texted her and was like, hey, like, let's, you know, see if we're going to get the coffee.

And she sent a screenshot of the text to me, meaning to obviously send it to someone else, being like, I have no idea what she's talking about. And I was like, oh, you literally don't remember that you, like, got drunk and cried at a bar and went on this, like, apology tour with me and a bunch of our other friends. You don't remember.

And she had meant to text a friend being like, what? Basically was like, what the fuck is she talking about? And I was like, well, I think this is where we come. I'm not talking about anything anymore. I was like, not nothing anymore, actually, at all. Sophia has left the chat. Yeah, I was just like, and I'm going to, I'm just going to leave this there for you.

I'm going to start using that, Rob. Joy has left the chat. I'm going to just actually type it out. Yep. That's what you should send to your ex, Joy. Joy has left the chat. I mean, in terms, though, in the world of texting the wrong person, and she got off really easy.

Yeah. Like I heard a story recently of a woman who was wearing her Apple Watch. It was actually a post. It was a warning on Instagram where she was saying, hey, turn off Siri on your Apple Watch. She's crying. She's like, this just happened to me. I was talking to my husband about someone at my work, a colleague, and Siri heard me, dictated the entire thing and sent it to the person.

No! She's like, so my colleague just got this lengthy text of me venting everything that annoys me about this person. Guys, we have to be careful with robots. They are taking over. We cannot underestimate the robots. What if this is what it is? What if it's not that the robots get guns and hunt us like in Terminator? It's just the robots airing out all of our shit talking. Social genocide, like just murders all of us socially. We have no social life anymore. totally incapable. And that's the thing, like, even when you think about that woman's experience, oh my God, I'm devastated for her because, of course, you're going to vent to your spouse. You might just need to get it out. You might just need to say all the things and bitch and moan,

and then the next day you feel fine. No one's ever supposed to know about that stuff. No, and it's your partner. That is your safest place, which means you were going to use the most heinous language and, you know, colorful words. It's all the things you don't. mean. It's all the things you don't really mean. It's like you just have to get them out of your body. And then you'd be like, okay, actually, I can be more reasonable. I can see it from this perspective. I can whatever, whatever. But you have to like get it out for it's all, it's like acting. You got to get out the bad ideas first. And then you arrive at something reasonable. And that's okay, but it's not supposed to be broadcast. No. So, no. So this is our PSA listeners.

Yeah, write us in and tell us your most embarrassing accidental text stories. Yes. Oh, my God. Apparently, there is an automatically send messages button under Siri in the Apple Watch. So if you have an Apple Watch, go ahead. Turn that all the way off. Oh, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so officially our answer to this wheel, though, is everyone, because we've all done it,

and it only happens once before you realize how careful you have to be, right? Yeah. Yes. Yes. Oh, my God, you guys, the like icky feeling in my chest. right now for every all of these stories i just the stress i feel awful i have another one for you but i can't say it on the air i'm gonna when we're done i'll tell you guys yeah oh yeah oh you just pissed off all the listeners but i am so excited well you know what our next episode is really

appropriately titled season eight episode four we all fall down by sending the wrong text messages Exactly. Exactly. Stupid Siri. Well, thanks for hanging out, everybody. See you next week, loves. We'll see you next week. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time.

We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl Charing for the right team. Drama queens, dream a smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.