Drama Queens - Going Rogue • EP314

Episode Date: September 5, 2022

Haley, Peyton and Brooke take a road trip to New York for the Rogue Vogue Fashion Show and this trip leaves Brooke faced with a major decision to make.  The Drama Queens share some fond memories of the episode as they connect with it on a personal level.  However it turns out there was another show happening behind the camera as the girls are joined by the writer of the episode, Anna Lotto, who shares some raw BTS truths regarding the atmosphere of the writer’s room and the making of One Tree Hill. Grab a seat, this episode rewrites the definition of drama.  For tickets to Drama Queens Live - visit dramaqueensoth.com!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be a smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Guys, we did it. We survived last week's traumatic death. We are back in the full, like, crowded, tree hill, sports oriented, you know, big, huge epic scene kind of episodes. And we cried happy tears. Yeah. We did cry happy tears. We did. We did. We did. I totally did. Yeah. Brooke doing that robot just made me so happy, but we'll get there. We'll get there. Oh, my gosh. Okay. So here, guys. It's season three, episode 14, all tomorrow's parties. Brooke Peyton and Haley head to New York. All the three of us in a car again together. It was so sweet and fun.

So they go there for Rogue Vogue and then off to Charlotte for the classic. But Brooke stays behind and makes an important decision about her future. Lucas and Nathan reconnect with a family friend and Skills learns how to swim from Bevin. And Karen asks Keith, a big question. David Pamer directed this one. Anne Lotto wrote this. Wow. This was really fun.

I liked this one. I liked the balance of last week's episode of really intimate conversations, and this week's episode of us all being together, the basketball team, the cheerleading squad, all the parents, and there was no Dan in this episode. Didn't it feel gentle? Yes, it was so nice. We didn't have to be worrying about some creeper lurking around every corner. Yeah.

What a relief. Because, like, Karen and Keith could finally enjoy themselves. Except not really. Whitey. Whitey. Whitey is a cute foil. Like he's fun coming in their room and being like, oh, look, truffles and eating their chocolate. And you're just like, oh, man, these two can't go on a date.

It's not like, oh, man, someone's trying to kill one of them. It's a different vibe. It's a different vibe. I love Brooke's storyline in this episode, you know. Me too, Brooke got a full 90s rom-com episode. I loved it. I was just waiting for Matthew McConaughey or Cameron Diaz to show up somewhere. I think we all would have loved it if Matthew McConaughey showed up.

I would have been very pleasing. Instead, it was just our friend Sam playing a total creepo. Sam Robinson is a local actor in Wilmington. And he's who played that totally weird guy in the turtleneck, which is, it's unfortunate because he really is like such a cool guy and a buddy of ours from the improv comedy scene, but he played a real creeper. I don't know if I ever met him in real life. Sam was great. Sam hung out at level five, babe. Sam did this thing though, because clearly he was playing such a creep that he changed

his voice. Oh yeah. Can you believe Brooke Davis gave up all of this? Like he did this horrible thing, which I actually really appreciated because he was like, if I'm going to be gross, I'm really going to go for it. And it made me feel better that he didn't sound like himself. I loved it. We had so many good theater actors in Wilmington, so it was fun when they would show up in our series. Because we get to get excited about them.

Wait a second. Didn't Sam also play the guy that gave Brooke Davis the drugs in season one? Yes, in season one. He's the sports trainer. He is? Yes. Oh, my gosh. It's like all those old shows like Lucy and the Dick Van Dyke show where they would just recycle.

actors, they would come back for different parts every season. But you guys, this is a full cycle storyline because in season one, when the sports trainer gives Brooke Davis the pills, she takes them and is very messy that night. But season three, Brooke Davis is like, no, no, hugs not drugs. I don't want those things. And they're both offered by the same guy. Whoa. What?

META. Whoa. I guarantee you no one else thought as deeply about that. That's awesome. The casting director's like, I don't know, just call Sam. Yeah, Sam will do it. This is it, though. This is what happens when you make something.

You go, look at that. You see the connections. You're just more invested. Hillary, you're such a fun, drunk and hungover. Are we talking about real life? Or are we talking about? Both, babe. Both, babe.

Because the last time I was hungover, it was with one Sophia Bush. Yeah, you guys got. Get me in trouble, man. We're fun. I have to say it made me feel so nostalgic because there are three iconic images from our show that all come from this episode. The three of us hugging at the edge of the stage at Rogue Vogue.

Hillary, you in those freaking aviators looking so cool. And, you know, there's the gift that's like, you can't see my eyes, but under my sunglasses. Or, like, you can't see it, but under my sunglasses, I'm rolling my eyes at you. Yeah. And then the three of us, like doing the robot and the can can at the end, I just was like, oh my God, some of our best

moments all come from this episode. And I loved it. That's what made me cry is watching the last scene where we're all just dancing and being, you know, irreverent and 17 and impulsive and like all those things that you don't get to be as an adult. And you set the table really, really nicely for the lead-up to that this episode. Like, Brooke's story is great so that Haley and Peyton, we get to just be teenagers. You're like flirting with your boyfriend, you know? Like, let's take a bath together. Haley's being all flirty and young and Peyton's being messy and young.

And Brooke has to decide, am I going to be young? You know, like, do I even get to pick what kind of young I want to be? or do I have to go be a grown-up now? I love that you spotted that, the differences in all of our, and the thread between all of our storylines. And it just goes to show that there is so much thought that's put into those things.

It's not just right dialogue, put people in situations. It's how do we tie all these things together, you know? Yeah. And especially because we're all dealing with pretty grown-up stuff. Haley and Nathan are putting their marriage back together. Peyton just lost Ellie. you know, to go through a major loss.

And to your point, Brooke's trying to figure out, is she ready for what's next? And it's beautiful to see these kids be kids. You know, you don't have to be a grownup. You don't have to leave your childhood behind. And it is interesting now that I'm thinking about what you just said to consider the fact that it's Brooke Davis who's like, I just want to hang on to my innocence for a little while. longer. Crazy, right?

Especially considering what she had just been saying about being scared to leave high school. Yeah. You know, I have to say there was a part of me that was really rooting for her to take the, go forward with the fashion show and just take that big risk and, you know, move forward in life. But this time, the decision didn't feel like it was coming out of fear of leaving high school and fear of leaving it all behind. It was like after the conversation with Daoud and the, in the town, that she really understood an appreciation for what she has. And she just wanted to hold on to it a little

bit longer, not out of fear of what if I can't make it, because she would have done. She would have amazing things would have happened. Great doors would have opened for her. So knowing that those possibilities are out there, I think maybe it gave Brooke a little more confidence to be able to make the decision to stay in high school. I don't know. What do you think? Yeah, I think so. And I think that, you know, Anne as a writer did such a beautiful job. It's funny to realize Anne Lotto wrote this episode and Stacey Ruekeiser

was our story editor. Oh. There is a different energy with those ladies balancing these big questions that these young women are asking themselves. And what I loved was, you know,

Daoud, and by the way, I mean, what a shot of Brian George. You guys, Brian George showing up and me just being like, Seinfeld was so cool. Oh, I know. For the kids in home who are like 12 years old, who don't know Seinfeld, lay it out for them, because it was a geek out moment to have him come. For sure.

Yeah, I mean, it's like to, you know, to get someone from one of your favorite comedies of all time who like shows up on your set. And by the way, who's such a brilliant comedic actor, Brian George is actually a very, you know, witty British comedian. And he came in and he played this beautiful story. And I remember, you know, obviously it's not the same kind of relationship you had with Cheryl. But in the way that when she showed up, you felt very held. You had like parental energy that was safe for you, which like we just didn't have in Wilmington.

Brian made me feel that way. I remember just like babbling out, you know, compliments. And he was like, okay, all right. well, you know, now I'm on your show. And I was like, oh, my God. Like, he was so sweet and disarming. And we spent this whole night, you know, hanging out on Front Street, shooting it like it was New York and driving around in this cab. And in between takes, we were having conversations like Brooke and Daoud were about life and creativity and acting and, you know, living in New York and just all these things that were so enjoyable for me.

And then I think I was so hungry for as a young actor. And so I loved that the sort of sparkle we felt together came through and that his sweetness so clearly came through. And I like that these women gave you a gentle misdirect where he said, you know, your life, you know, time passes by so fast. Make your life great now. Start right now. And you think she's going to, you know, put it all in on her career.

And she realizes what is great to her is her friend. Yeah. Home. And it's so special. I think that's why it made me cry looking at the three of us. Well, I can feel the, it was real. You know those times when we do scenes and they're real? Yeah.

Like you were actually having a magical experience with, a total stranger, but you were in a scene where you were having a magical experience with a total stranger. Yeah. You know, I think, I think we've been lucky that we've been able to be totally aware of those moments. Like when Cheryl Crow came to set and Joy got to be with Cheryl Crow and it was like, oh my God, we're doing this thing and like, what are you doing?

You know, like those magical moments are rare, but, you know, here we are. how many years later, and you can still feel it, it's still that tingly thing, and we weren't even in that scene. Like, we get it. By the way, I love that you just brought up Cheryl Crow. A friend of mine was at her show last night and tagged me in the Instagram story and was like, where are all the One Tree Hill stands at? And I was like, oh, my God.

And I got that same feeling. We're here. Totally. Totally. It was so great. And I love that Brooke at the end because historically. I can't stop crying you. I know, but my eyes are just leaking.

Because you know what? You got brought on to be the comedy, the hot girl. Yeah. That man took you seriously. And I don't know that you felt that from a lot of adults in our space. And so for that man who you already knew and respected to come on and treat you like a professional and to take a moment with you and respect you and to have like an earnest scene. 100%. I can see why that would be touching.

Especially as a young artist, you know, we got bullied by a lot of the grownups that were around us. And it's very confusing to figure out what sort of respect you deserve. And to look at an adult who you really respect and have that person to your point, treat you so well, be completely non-creepy, be so supportive. And, you know, to have an actor who I grew up watching, say, you're a phenomenal actor to me, was like, whoa, really? You think? I like my job a lot. It's really cool. Thanks, sister.

Wow. Like, it can be very, those experiences can be very transformative, especially when you're not in a day-to-day space that feels totally healthy to you. Yeah. You know? I wanted to ask Joy if she connected with this storyline Because of the three of us, it is Joy's real life That is most like Brooks' narrative Because you went to New York as like a teenager

To go work And And had to choose between like, you know High school crap And also I'm going to go live on my own And like I'm going to work I'm a teenager, I'm going to go work You know, did you see yourself in that at all?

I recognized that that room you know, the party room where they're, you know, the girls drugged out and somebody's hitting on you and you're way too young and, you know, everybody's sort of like acting like this is the norm and aren't you lucky to be here with us? I've been there. And I always left. I always felt uncomfortable and like I just didn't. It was the same reaction Brooke had like, get your hands off of me. Stop touching me. What are you doing? What are you doing? Yeah. And I credit my parents, you know, know, they, I guess it was just, they always gave me a good sense of self and groundedness so that when I was in scenarios where there was a lot of peer pressure, I just didn't, it didn't

phase me very much. So, yeah, I mean, I recognize that. But I think also, I never really felt the tug of like, oh, am I going to choose to be a high school kid and just enjoy. that life or am I going to go be an adult in New York? I was always just like, oh no, I'm out of here. I'll see you guys later. You guys have fun of prom. I'm out. Bye. Yeah. A hundred percent. So I love that Brooke in the end because also I was going to say this historically, Brooke would have been the person with when the routine went wrong and somebody screwed up. I think Brooke historically would have been the person that got really frustrated and didn't know what to do and was just, you know, because she wanted it to all be perfect. So I loved that she just let go. And she was like, I'm going to lead by example here.

I'm stepping out. And I'm just going to take a hold of what I want and embrace what I came here to do, which is not to win a competition. I came here to be a kid for as long as I can right now. So let's do it. It made me cry immediately. Yeah. I mean, look, we just turned 40, Sof and I, and I woke up the morning of my 40th birthday with a sty in my eye. And I was like, what the fuck is this? And my doctor's like, oh, it's stress related. And I'm like, you think? Cool story, man.

And so all I wanted to do for my birthday was go home to my friend's parents' house and have a pool party in her yard because the least stressful thing I could think of was having Debbie Dawson's brownies and going swimming in her backyard. sitting on a trampoline at night, you know? Great. Yeah. Because you also had the same pinghill. You were in high school, but you were like getting ready to get out. You were like, how do I get to New York?

How do I go? I made the Brooke Davis decision. I went home. Tell us. I got an agent when I was 12 or 13 years old and my parents would drive me from Virginia up to New York and I would audition and I would get close on stuff, you know? Or it was just cool to be in the room for like really big auditions. Like, Joy, I feel like you and I probably went up for a lot of the same stuff.

I'm sure we were. Horse Whisperer. Girl, Star Wars. Remember when they were talking to every chick on the planet trying to find Natalie Portman's part? Yep. So, yeah, we went up for all these cool things and it was neat. But I was getting in trouble with the cheerleading squad because I was missing, like, major practices and games and things and routines were being screwed up because I wasn't there.

Or I was in the school play. And I would get called up for an audition. And so I had to have a meeting with my agent and say, look, I'm just going to go to college in New York, but I'm going to stop auditioning for the next three years. And so my sophomore year in high school, I was like, I'm not going to audition anymore. So I can gain the life experience. I feel like I'm going to need to play a high schooler later because I knew they cast 18-year-olds to play high schoolers.

You had to be over 18. And hot damn, if it didn't work out. Dang it, you called it. Sometimes you got to call your shot. But I like that Brooke could have gone either way, and it would have been a win. I feel like the fan base would have been like, yes, either way. So maybe we should do that poll. We should poll the audience and see, like, who thinks she should have done the fashion show?

And who thinks she should have come home to the Sparkle Classic? What I love about picking the classic, though, is it at this moment in my life, looking back, It makes me realize that your decision, you know, in real life, Brooke's decision on screen, it's about giving yourself permission to slow down. And things do go so fast. And it's like how meaningful it can be to say, no, I'm just, I'm going to slow down. It's a cocky move. It's a cocky move because you're like, you know what?

I could get it now. I could get it later. I'm into it. Yeah, like, as kids, you're like, I've got my whole future ahead of me. But as adults, I'm like, take the job. Yeah, as adults, I'm stressing for her. I'm like, the baby. What if they're recession?

The opportunity might not come back. But you know what's really interesting? You're right. I think it's, I think it's about trusting yourself. And I trust myself now more than I did then, certainly. Yeah. And, you know, I chose this. summer to like, chill. You know, the three of us do this, but I'm not doing anything else. People

keep asking me to do shit. And I'm like, no. No. No. I'm going to live for a hot second. I'm going to be home. I'm just going to be here. I'm going to have this moment. This season is so special. I just want to have this moment. Let's talk about other work stuff in September. And every once in a while, I feel that thing where I'm like, oh, God, what am I doing? And then I'm like, no, no, I chose this choice. I chose this choice. I chose this choice. I choose my choice, this is, I choose my choice. And it's great, but it takes work to say, I can slow down. And it feels wild to go, oh, man, did Brooke Davis teach me this lesson? And it didn't it take me this long to learn it? Well, it's clear that this is a subject matter that is near and dear to us, you know, especially when we were young women fighting for our youth.

And we were really lucky that the person who wrote this episode was also a very young writer in our writer's room at that time. That must be why it feels so honest. Yeah. I mean, she was just a couple years older than us. She was like a kid. So, ladies and gentlemen, with no further ado, we have Ms. Anilado here, the writer of episode 314, All Tomorrow's Parties. Let's get her in here. It may look different, but names.

Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while

navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh, my goodness, ladies. One day, one day of sales. Can you believe this? We have literally the best fans. Y'all are incredible.

You guys, we're basically sold out. I mean, after one day of sales. Super exciting to start doubling up on shows. You know, we're only going to do one show in each town. Now we're doubling up on some of them, which is exciting. For those of you who are going to be at the later show, congratulations, because we're going to talk to you and to us. It's only going to get spicier as the night goes on. How many people do you think will come to the first show and the second show just to see how weird we get?

Ooh, do we need like golden tickets? Oh, that's so fun. At the venues where we're doing two shows, we should take a poll because we're going to need to know who our double up friends are. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Well, guys, if you want to double up or just come to one of the extra shows that we are doing, please go right now, drama queens.OTH.com and you can go get your tickets. We're so pumped to see you guys.

They're going fast. So get them while you can. And yeah, we cannot wait to see y'all. We decided we wanted to be together and thought, let's just plan a fun week. And now I'm like, oh, oh my God, do we need to go on a national tour? What are we doing? We're just going to invite a few thousand people. Do we need to go on a European tour? Do we need to go on like an Australian tour? Guys, we'll do all the things. Thank you guys for showing up.

We can't wait to see y'all on the road. Hi, team. Hi. Oh, my gosh. Hi. I'm so happy to see you guys. Yay. Oh, hi, Anna.

Where are you right now? Where in the world are you? It's very emotional for me. Okay. So I'm like, this is what I was hoping to, I was hoping to just show up at your house, Hillary. I'm in Massachusetts. Go get here. So I'm like an hour away from...

Yeah, you should have been here. I'm literally in my garage right now. We could have just like sweated it out together in here. You guys have this one. I know it's so hot. I'm also going to look like I'm like really like sweating it, literally sweating it really bad. You're glowing. Don't worry.

You're glowing. So how long have you been in Massachusetts? So I keep saying I moved five years ago, but at this point it's been 2015, it's like seven years. So I was in LA from 99 till 2014. I came back when I was pregnant with my second kid. Because I was like, everyone's like, what are you going to do for kindergarten? I was like, you know what? The easiest thing for me to do kindergarten is just moved back to you. That's honestly how I felt. I was like, I'm not going to get interviewed for school. It's a full-time job. Everyone's like, if you apply to 10 schools and you

get rejected from 10, then they'll get in. I'm like, that's your plan. That's what people do for school. So I'm back in my hometown, like, living that dream in my, you know, $200,000 by a bedroom house. Well, but by the way, that's what this whole episode is about. It's about Brooke deciding to choose her hometown over that glitzy dream. And so how did you, how did you land in LA? Like, what was the trajectory for you to start writing? I had always wanted to, I think, I really came out to L.A. because I loved Felicity and Buffy. Like, I thought they were like, like, art. Like, I was like, and I didn't even know you could be a TV writer. Like, back then, you couldn't major and, you know, you couldn't major in it in school. Like, I didn't get any, you know, like, there was nothing to do in college. I just majored in English. I knew I wanted to go out to L.A. I had a second cousin, like, my dad's cousin lived in Venice. And I, like, slept on his couch and got this. That's a cool spot to land. Kind of. Venice was never, I was like so east, you know, like the more to the east side I got is like the more I feel than Silver Lake, then Echo Park. Then, you know, so it's like, oh, this is my world, right? So I, like, away from that. And then by the time, so by the time I landed on Wondry Hill, that was definitely like a huge break. And I had actually gone back to for just a couple weeks waitressing, which was like the end. I was like, I was like, I've got to do this because I have it. And I used to like, right in my mind, my own heat, e True Hollywood. I'd be like, like, she had started.

She was at the Etondale ground working as a hostess. That was just because they were so competitive they were like, we will start you one night a week hostessing and I was like,

oh my God, this is the end. So I had been to Toronto. That's what I went to Toronto that's born in Canada that's a Canadian citizenship. So I was there for a minute before I came out.

Did that, landed on there. It was a great, great atmosphere in the very beginning with that. So he was the assistant. We wrote a spec together when we were both

assistants. Me and Mike Harrell wrote a thing together. We were like best buds. We had been researchers on the weakest link together. That was our job that we met at. Then I was promoted to writer's assistant, which is when I went in the room. So the first year, I wasn't really in the room. It was like this. We didn't get to, I didn't get to see what actually happened. We sat out and answered phones. And we got to do a little thing. I wrote Punkin Disorderly. Yeah, you did. So I wrote. That's so awesome. Like I just wrote like every day she had a little journal entry and it was what Peyton was thinking so I would like put a quote from a song put who it was from and then say this song makes me think of you know summer like one line

I'm thrilled to do that I was so happy yeah so so so you were the original Twitter yes yes on that by the way that website used to be up for like a really long time someone can find it I guarantee you there's a cool fan that screen grabbed the hell out of it yeah we'll find it um I was there for three years I was as an assistant then I was the writer's assistant then weirdly so all the boys got promoted and I was in the same level as them and I did not I got made a writer's assistant for the second year while everybody else got promoted to writer now I don't know if you know like the financial jump for that is from 700 a week to at the time and this is before script and for for everything to 2,500 a week. Wow. Wow. So all the other people who got promoted were men.

So the two other boys, it was John Norris and Mike Harrow and me were all assistance equal. Yeah. They got promoted, bumped up. Yeah. And I got left in that spot. And they actually went to the showrunner. And they were like, can we give some of our salary to him? Oh, my God. Like they were so like that was so cool. Because it is such a different. And the money is to me what comes back to how why everything money's control they were making so much money and I was so outspoken um and I was so outspoken about the use of the word bitch and slut and whore and skink nonstop like my passion and I like hated it there was one one of my I remember there's one scene where

you're playing a guitar haley and someone shouts from the audits and take it off and I was just like I was like there's something about that like when you're up performing and someone reduces you to like just yell like that and and and they would like but i always spoke off about that stuff and they're like you're taking it to you know blah blah blah blah blah yeah you're too sensitive because i feel like i like really did actually like i'm really proud of stuff i did police then yeah because it was always my my stomach drops when i hear like slut and bitch and horror so for them to when they would use it and especially there was so much like female female against negative stuff and the end of the narrative that girls throw themselves at boys

when they wish what a fantasy nothing it's the other way around you know what I mean for the most part but this like sexualized like going after like that was the character of rachel and then some of it came from the network too it was like we had 99% female following and their agenda was how do we get boys to watch how do we get boys to watch instead of supporting all these diehard fans that are looking for identity. And then they would be like, oh, I know. Let's have Rachel hold a basketball in front of her boobs and say game on. And it was like, first of all, like, boys can find porn?

Like, do you think they're going to tune into One Tree Hill so they can watch that? Like, can we just give story? Like, and it would break my heart because a lot of the girls were really young too. You know, like 13 and, you know, so. Our fan base is still really young, you know? We get like kids that are like, hi, I'm named Brooke. I'm named Hayley. And I'm 12.

And you're like, baby, don't watch this yet. Don't watch yet, please. I know. Even my daughter's 11 and, you know, she's in the room sometimes when I'm podcasting and whatever. And I'm a little like, oh, don't turn around. Don't watch them. Our daughters were born like the same time, I think. Mine was, my daughter's born in January of 2011.

So what was your experience like writing this episode? So this episode, okay, so first of all, I thought that I was not going to get one because he kept putting it off. And part of what made the dynamic where was I got, I sold a pilot to T. Nick at the time. And I'll be the first to admit, I was a little, like, big for my bridge. Like, I was kind of like, because people in my ear were like, this show, you've got your own show. But of course that show, like, it got greenlit and then it never happened. Yeah. Yeah, but we don't know that when we're in our 20s.

We're just like, I sold a show. I was like, I'm the, so I was a little bit getting. And I was also pissed because I was like, I'm here until 11 o'clock at night breaking. Like, I was doing like a lot of the stories. So I will tell you all the stuff that was, that I won't do this on things that look so bitter. But I came up with Brooking because they were like, they were like, let's do it. And I go, you know what, something that has not been approached ever? I'm like, let's go to female masturbation.

Can we do that? Yeah, we don't even need to hook up with boys. Yeah, I was like, let's, let's take it outside that. I did brooky. I did all the letters was that was my storyline, whatever. So anyway, I was supposed to write the episode before where Peyton's mom dies. Okay. And I was plotted in for that.

And then a showrunner came to me and said, I'm going to give this to Stacey because her father had just died. And I was like, okay. And he goes, I'm going to give you the next one. It's going to be really fun. It looked horrible on paper. I'm not going to lie. It was like, this fat, like, what?

Like, go to a fact. And also, I don't know if you noticed in this one how much like product placement was crammed in. Oh, my God. Yes. So much. I live it in the body spray. And like, let me play my song. And like the car.

What was the car that you had to mention? The PT Cruiser. Yeah. We're in our PT cruiser. I was like, why are we in this car? That's not the sun kissed in Rachel's fridge. Yeah, yeah. Oh, and can I give you my debit mastercard so that you can maybe have no fee while you

withdraw that from any ATM around the corner? It was brutal. And then also there was that weird spinoff storyline with skills is, or not, was it, the family when they go to the dinner? Texas Battle, yeah. Oh, yeah. Nathan's friend. It was meant to maybe be a NASCAR spinoff.

What? Yeah. So that whole thing was crammed in there. Another NASCAR thing? It was going to be, yeah, it was going to be with his family. There was possibly a storyline there. So that made no sense and had to be crammed. Because they tried to make NASCAR happen the season before.

And the deal was still floating around at the studio. So it was if we combine, remember these guys and then we do these guys and this is the driver. And this guy will be the night security. And it'll be all these people that you've met over the course of these. seasons of this show and it's not a bad idea to do that i mean like i can see how that would be useful but it just fell out of place with our writer just like cool let me just clunk this in here real quick let me clunk this in here so you can sell a show yeah you don't have much time to do it and stuff like that so weird um so there was that but then i feel like but i have a question

because obviously look there's the politics of you being a young woman in a room, so you've gotten behind the first door, but they're still holding you at arm's length. They're dangling the carrot of, well, if you just do this well, and if you do this well, and if you make less money than everybody else in the room, but you don't complain about it, maybe we'll give you the episode that we promised you last season, but you'll get one this season. It's a bunch of bullshit, and it's something that I think is familiar to so many of us in so many arenas. That carrot, man. That carrot is infuriating, and as we all know, it happens to women in ways that it doesn't often happen to other people in corporate structures.

I can go on ad nauseum about how if we actually had pay equity in America, the GDP of the entire nation would increase by 12 points like that. It would be great. Girlfriend loves numbers. Not the time. I just love a number. But in the middle of all this like patriarchal political bullshit that you're dealing with as the youngest female employee, in the room, you got this script, which I get in an outline, you said, looked kind of like trash. You're like, how am I going to make this work? But you did. You did. You wound up writing a show. We talked about by the end, when the three of us are dancing and all the pressures off and these kids are just being kids, we were all crying watching. You took us on such a

great journey. And it was magical. So how did you do it? Magical. It ended up so magical. And here's one of, so that last. So that last. scene like is the whole that's when you know and she's like reflecting and being like i want to be a kid and just the way um you know and one thing that montreal does so good is those co-dos those montages at the music and i i was so i was a big music person so i made like it was funny i remember one of the writers was like everyone has to have their thing yours is music mine is sports this guy's like everyone has to have their own in and like i you know and i genuinely do like music And I always envisioned that scene with a very slow, with a slow song, with a sad song.

The song that I wanted to use was, I don't know if you guys, it's red right ankle by the Decembrus. Oh, that would have been a very different scene. It would have been a very different thing. And it's like, but what I loved about it is it has this random line. Well, it has like such great lines, but like the last verse is like, this is the story of the men who loved you, who loved you now, loved you. loved you then and it was like so I wanted that I just gave myself a little chill but then there's another line that made no sense but it was like this is the story of your gypsy uncle who you never knew because he was dead and it was like this foreshadowing around Keith and wanted to like when they

proposed to each other I wanted that line to be there and so I had this big vision and he's like I was there with you I understand but like I want him you know we need to keep it up and keep energy and I was like, okay, you know, and I think it still works, but I, like, wish I was like, I wish I could have just even, like, edited that one just to see how that played out, because it was so, like. Well, I'm sure we have a fan that can set it to that song for us. So somebody at home, why don't you post that on Instagram for us? That would be cool.

I played it for myself and the thing. But, like, and we had a really good time in the room. And the dynamic is weird. So it's like, the writers all get together and it's all in the board. word or whatever. And the showrunner would kind of come in after and be like, show me what you got. And we'd be like, so we have this and we have this. And we did have, there was one version that was earlier that we were really excited about that got slightly tweaked as well. But what stayed was that just like being able to hold on to the moment of your youth while it's happening,

which is very hard because it's very easy. You look back. And it's so easy to be so nostalgic. But when it's happening, it just, you know what I mean? It goes by and you don't, and you aren't able to grasp it. You know how the subways in New York City have those like poems up sometimes? Yeah. Yeah, to calm you down on the subway so you don't stab anybody? Yeah, yeah.

I know those. And I remember seeing one that was like not a particularly good poem, but it had some line that was like. We won't tell the writer of that poem. Yeah, whoever, whoever. was. If they listen to us and they'll recognize it. And it was like, when we die, I think heaven is going to be like our memories, not the way they happen, but the way we remember them. And it was just this very good nuance of like, it's not like that when it's happening. But sometimes it is. Every now and then, like the actual thing that's happening, you realize while it's happening. And that's such

a gift. And I felt like that's what I wanted to capture. And I hope that I did. I think that's why it felt so special. Yeah. I'm like such a nostalgic. person but that bit when you're drunk oh yeah my drunky song yeah so the the the stars are crying for what yeah yeah i got to write i had to register that are you serious yeah yeah because like an original it had to be an original line and original tune and i had to say it to david paymer or not david paymer whoever the director was yeah david david paper directed this one yeah yeah and um so like that was really fun that i got to do that it was really fun in the beginning the quote about being jealous of the angels

yeah is a poem that a friend of mine wrote that I put in and I was like Sylvie that poem you wrote about and the name of that poem was the endless perfection of your absence and she wrote a friend who died so I got to incorporate so much that I'd been holding in for so long I also named everybody after all my friends

so Bevin Merski is my good friend Michelle Merski so when she was okay that horrible reason I was like Michelle Bevin Mersky because she got named in that episode That's right. We never knew her last name before. Oh. You just needed a last name.

I didn't know that happened in that episode. That's so great. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner

in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We have watched a lot of episodes at this point,

and this one does rate very, very high because it feels most like a teenage girl's perspective, right on the cusp of having to make these grown-ups. decisions. And like you said, like taking advantage of a moment while it's happening, not after. And so you being such a young person in the writer's room, one would think they would come to you and ask like, hey, what's it like to be a 16 year old girl? Because, you know, not everyone in that room knew what that was like. Were you a sounding board for some of their ideas? Oh, I mean, I was remotely the closest they had to a 16-year-old girl. I also had two younger sisters at the time,

so I still do. So I was kind of talking to. I've kept them. But they would, no, I think that they relied on that a lot. And that's why I think I got like a chip on my shoulder, why I got like, you know, annoyed. It was, it was so weird to look out and see that room. And I'm not, it was four, it's 14 older men. It was very, very odd. By the way, here's a, a detail that is crazy that in the room, and I think, I don't, we didn't make this up, but in the room when, when everybody would take a, we would break the story, so you'd break the scenes, you'd break the acts, break the scenes, and then we would go off and people would get their own scenes. So you'd get a scene of like what was going to happen, right? So say, like from the

outline, you mean. Yeah, from the outline. And then, and then you'd have to go write the scene. Fill it in. You get to write the dialogue. You get to write fun stuff that you want to happen in it. And when we would break that up, which, by the way, is illegal from the WGA. You're not supposed to do this. But we would break it up. But we would call it gang-banging the outline. Oh, God.

Which is so uncomfortable when you got into 15 minutes. Are we going to gang-bang this? Are we going to gang-bang the outline tonight? Oh, my God. Little things. Little things. You know what I mean? Yeah.

And you don't know because you're so early in your career. You haven't worked necessarily in healthy places yet. So you just kind of assume like, oh, it's like this everywhere. Right. And remember the whole thing that came out like with the friends. it was the friend's assistant when she like was a whistleblower and she was like, listen, this is what it's like in the room. And it does get really brutal in the room. And you had to be the kind of girl that could roll with that and would never get offended by that. And again,

like, I don't care what you say. Like, let's go there. Let's go everywhere. But like there's when we're making references to rape, then it gets weird. Right. So like that doesn't make a prude and like whatever. I don't care what we say because like you are very open in that thing. You know, like acting and writing. It's, it's different than my sister's a school teacher when she came to the room at Warren, she's like, I can't believe the way you're allowed to speak. Like, just. Yeah. And that there's, listen, there is an expectation of more detail for any subject, more intimacy. You are creating intimate lives as actors and writers. But to Hillary's point, when you've worked in more places, you know what healthy intimacy looks like versus unhealthy

the intimacy. And the kind of things you're referring to are deeply unhealthy. Yeah, because you've got to be able to be messy to be an artist and to create things. There has to be a space where you can say stupid things or do, you know, do some or offend someone or whatever. There has to be space for that because you're creating something and that there is a rawness and a vulnerability. But there's a way to do it that is healthy and consider it and where there's forgiveness and there's space to say, oh, I need to learn something here. Sorry, I totally. stepped out of line, didn't realize that. Apologies, I forgive you, let's move on. But when you're in an environment where everyone's just, it's like authoritarian, everyone's just expected to, you know,

but he's going to kiss the ring. Kiss the ring. Exactly. When you're in a room where there's 16 people and only two women and the men are throwing around terms like that, it's absolutely unhealthy. Yeah. Period. What happened on my very first day, I came in one of the, all the assistants were male and there was a PA. There was a, there was a writer. There was a writer. There was a writer the first year who wasn't there and um the paris hilton sex tape had just come out oh my god and they were all watching it at work at work and i had just met all these people and they were like and it was like so it was like this test of like and that a writer came out and he goes what's going on yeah and they were like and he's like not cool guys not cool now that writer turns out um is

actually gay, but nobody knew. But I think that's interesting that it was like one gay male that was like, guys, not cool. This is like. And is that the writer that left after that season? He left after he was only, he was only the first season, I believe. I came in at the end

of the first season or the beginning of the second season. Yeah, that would make me want to run for the hills too. Just like 100%. This is so, and then just think about how far we've come that like, how like aware everyone is of how unbelievably inappropriate that would have been. But I wonder if it still happens with young.

I mean, we were all very... Of course it does. Of course it does. I mean, babe, when you talk about, you know, what happened with the writer on friends, you know how they make us do the sexual harassment seminar every year? At every studio, you know, for our friends at home, you have to do this seminar about what's appropriate communication. This has always existed. And pre the Me Too story breaking in 2017, every single year that I was working at NBC, we would do the sexual harassment seminar. And they would say, and let us give you an example of what happens when a legal issue is risen. And they would give the example of the friend's writer talking about how the jokes about the sexually inappropriate jokes, the commentary about rape and the racist commentary

in the writer's room of that show made her feel very uncomfortable. and a lot of it felt pointed at her and then they would tell us about how she lost. How the network's lawyers beat her in court. So the exit, it was, no one's allowed to speak to you in ways that make you uncomfortable,

but if they do, we'll win. That was the messaging. And so when we talk about all of this and people say, dumb shit, like, well, why didn't you just leave? Why don't you leave? Why didn't you should do something? Yeah.

First of all, as you said so well, Anna, it never starts there. It starts. Everyone's cool. Everyone's nice. People take you under their wing. They tell you they're going to mentor you. They probably give you like a cool gift. Like, oh, man, you want this iPod?

You want this like. Maybe a nickname. Yeah. And by the way, you were welcomed into a room where something very uncomfortable and inappropriate was happening. But someone in power stood up and said, absolutely not. So you go, whoa, that was weird, but they acknowledged it was weird and, okay, we're going to move on from that. It's also incremental and everything happens in all these shades of gray.

It's rarely ever black and white. It's easy to have the black and white examples after the fact. But I think, you know, when we ask what happens these days, this is why we talk about a diversity of a requirement, really, for a diversity of the people in power. Because when there is more diversity in power positions, whether it's a corporate environment, a movie studio, a creative industry, there's less harassment, less unhappiness, more pay equity. Like, the data tells us it's possible to change it. And it happens organically. You put it does. It wouldn't have been put on you as a 26-year-old to defend all the other girls on the show.

Yeah. You wouldn't have felt like it was you against the whole machine. Yeah. you know, the reality is if we want to build rooms that look more like the world, some of us have to go first. And like, you got a group of women on this Zoom who were all kind of first in that environment. Yeah.

And it sucked for all of us. Right. But it's also has that unspoken thing about that, too, is that you know, and this is with the friends thing, she brought, you know that there's not just a hundred, there's a thousand people lined up to do your job. Oh, my God. Yeah. you are so privileged to be there and you see the resumes coming off the thing and even though

you're the lowest person on the total poll even though you're making 0.03% of the person who's doing the same thing you know that people are lined up to have and you're so lucky so it's like you're replaceable is the drumbeat that I kept hearing you're replaceable yeah replaceable you're replaceable yeah me too it may look different but native culture is very alive My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her. story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Do you want to spin a wheel with us and do most likely to? Yes. Yes. I think we ought to. Let's see what we got this week. So do you know this thing that we do on the show, most likely to? Oh, I don't think I've seen. Have I seen that?

Oh, okay. Yes. So we like, you know, school superlatives, yearbook things, we pick a most likely to topic. And then we have to pick a cast member and a character who, fit the bill. So this week we have most likely to become a meme. Oh my god, we were like pre-meams too. Girl, there's so many like gifts and memes from this episode. So if you talked about it at the top. There's like, there's that famous shot of the three of us hugging at the end of the stage and then Hillary in her sunglasses and then the three of us doing the like high kicks at the end. I mean,

honestly, is that, is this the episode? Instead of a. character? Is it episode 314? Is the most likely to become a meme? I think you did it. I think you wrote it. Queen meme here. We have Queen meme. Anna in the house. Yeah. Do you have a favorite one tree hill, gif or meme that you've seen floating around? Um, I'm trying to think. I don't know. I'll have to go look and take a deep dive. That'll be fun. Yeah. Yeah. Anna, thank you so, so much. We'll talk more. And yeah, I'm glad that we're all on this healing journey together. Me too, you guys. You wrote a kick-ass episode.

Thank you so much. And yeah, just the beginning. Can't wait to do this with one next time. I love to read. That'll be fun. Okay. Please do. Awesome.

Next week we have episode 15 from season three. Just watched the fireworks. I feel like that was Harold and Strauss. Sweet. Well, there are dudes. We shall see. All right. We're games and chat.

One of the teams. All right. All right. We'll see you soon. Bye. Bye. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening.

Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queen's at I-HeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Charming for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens.

Smart girl, rough girl, fashion, but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama Queen. Drama Queen. Drama, drama, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop.

That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.