Drama Queens - Hindsight is 20-22 • EP318

Episode Date: October 3, 2022

There’s a lot to love about this episode… Rachel’s cabin, Nathan’s attempt at a perfect proposal, Pete Wentz surprising Peyton and Rachel and Brooke’s rivalry reignited.  BUT as we’ll find out, the making-of certainly had its moments!  Fasten your seatbelts because this is some serious roller-coaster reminiscing.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hi, everyone. We heard you. We are so excited to share some exciting news for you. Go ahead. We got so many DMs. We had so many sweet DMs from people saying they weren't going to be able to make it to Drama Queen's Live. What could we do? Come to UK. Come to Kansas. Come to Australia. Come to Canada. Come to Brazil. Please come to L.A. Well, we are. We are coming to your homes wherever you are because I Our live stream of the New York show is available to you on October 20th at 5 p.m. Tickets are on sale right now, y'all, at Drama Queen'sOTH.com. You can get tickets to the live stream. Our amazing team at IHeart has made this globally available because we want you guys to be there

with us, whether your butts are in those theater seats or in your most comfortable seats at home. You're our family. We want you with us. And you guys are going to have the best of both shows because we have, different guests at each one of our New York City shows. So you are going to get Barbara Allen Woods, Daphneesaniga, Tyler Hilton, and Matt Bar all for, what, $23? Hey, hey. Let's do it. It's our lucky number, you know what I mean?

That's what I'm saying. Visit drama queens.OTH.com to get your tickets to the live stream today. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Charing for the right team Drama queens Smart girl

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I know let's send the kids to a club Is this us starting? Are we recording right now? Is this the top of the episode? This might be the top of the episode You know what That's why our listeners like it here because we're honest.

Honestly, I think you guys hearing us bitching is, that's the moment we should start with because... It is. Authentic. You guys, this episode, what? Yeah. Lee wrote on Friends and we can take this out if we want to, but FYI, he wrote on Friends, he just wrote, he's All That, the New She's All That remake.

Hmm. Um, but I'm a cheerleader with what's her face, uh, Leon. Natasha Leon. Yeah. Oh, you know what? This does feel like a Mark sabotage job then, because I like that movie. Yeah. He's probably, I think he's probably a pretty good writer, but, you know, and get over it,

that fun one with Kirsten Dunst. Oh, yeah. So it feels like then the, the fun scenes were probably Lee and then all the weird stuff was kind of cut and pasted in the final round. It felt like a post-it. Like walking into somebody's house who has to remember all the things they have to do in a week and there's just post-its all over the mirror. You mean like my office? Yeah. Or you're just like, okay, so you can absorb all the things at the same time, but it's, they don't really cohesively go together. Yeah, if you don't get them

in order, you don't have a story. Right. There's no story. It's just pieces. Joy, give us the rundown of this episode this okay all right we do have like an official rundown here it is so episode 18 of season three when it isn't like it should be kind of like this episode yeah it's quite appropriate for this episode uh it aired april 5th 2006 the group heads to rachel's cabin as they try to get back to normal nathan wants to give haley a perfect proposal pete wence surprises Peyton and hangs with the crew. Rachel and Brooks' rivalry reignites with a secret cabinet

and mouth. Okay. That sounds like the magic show. The lion in the witch in the wardrobe. Oh, God. We needed fur coats. It's so cold. Where's Mr. Tumnus?

Um, where am I? Mouth forgives Rachel for the time capsule and, um, and meanwhile back in Tree Hill, Karen is, uh, still angry over Keith's death. The scene we all decided was the only reason to watch this episode, really, um, because she's such a beast of an actress that was amazing, but we'll get there, I'm sure. Um, we didn't hate it. It was fine. It was like, this was, I mean, it was fun.

It was just a little like what, it's disjointed. It had highs and lows. There were parks that were very cute. cute and we got our iconic by the way i didn't even realize that the iconic moment of the four of us girls and pete doing our makeup was just a oneer it's a montage scene i was like oh there's no scene there and it's like one of our favorite memories which feels insane there were things that were very sweet but man this one man was a lot of this they had e t come what baby they had entertainment tonight come that that that's where that photo came from not entertainment tonight was that it there was some

entertainment weekly maybe some big magazine was there that's where that photo came from there was like a big magazine on set and they came to do these they came to do photos you know this doesn't sound familiar yeah no that rings bells for me no because so for us the thing that was glaring about this episode is that the dialogue and some of the writing was like what it was like student film not good you know first time writer not good yeah um the episode also couldn't decide what it wanted to be like are we going to a cabin in the woods to go ATVing or are we going to a club night to you know be underage drinkers in a bar like all the thing is it about DJs is it about the wilderness like it's and then there's poor Pete Wentz who you know is our

contemporary and to repeat the nicest person. So lovely. But had to play like a guy in his 20s hitting on a high school girl talking to her about how she can't have tattoos because her dad will be mad. Like, oh God, everything about this was wrong. This one does not age well, friends. It just sure doesn't. I couldn't get over all the high schoolers sitting around drinking wine. Like wine is on the list of any high schooler in the world. They can't stand the taste of that usually. I mean, the kids are like, that's not an acquired taste. To your point, Joy, I think a large part of this episode was all promotional materials because it had sun kissed in there. It had a very famous rock star. We literally said you're a rock star

372 times in this episode, just to remind people at home. You know, we had all these kind of gimmicks happening in the episode. So I feel like there was something happening promotional-wise. There was, like, business shit happening behind the scenes. I think so, too. And it does feel like, you know, Lee Fleming wrote this episode who has written a lot of very amazing scripts, not even on our show, like other projects that are great and fun and successful. And it kind of feels, and, you know, we're hypothesizing here, but it feels like Lee turned in a script. And then at the sort of upper levels, it was like, well, we got to put this in. We got to insert this.

We got to get Pete Wentz in. We've got to get sun kissed in. And suddenly it's like a collage project that is not very good. No. No, how many hot tub scenes were there? I mean, it was like, a lot. There was a lot of hot tub. I was reading a letter in the hot tub.

Joy and I were in the hot tub. Bevin and Skills were getting in the hot tub. Rachel and Mouth were in the hot tub. Yeah. That's what I can remember. And it killed me that. It just killed me. We had that amazing lake location.

And they just put Lucas and Nathan on the boat fishing, having a totally meaningless conversation for like two seconds. That should have been, I would love to have either seen Skills and Bevin stuck on the boat in the middle with no oars. Yeah. And we get to watch their whole conversation the whole time. Or have Nathan proposed to Haley on the boat out and the thing, you know. Like there could have been something really meaningful with that location.

It was so beautiful. And instead it just, it did feel real much. Yeah. But you can't be in a bathing suit in the boat, joy. Like, they're not going to get naked girls in the boat. So let's just kick it back to the hot tub that our art department had to put in the front yard of that beautiful house. Do you know what I mean? By the way, my favorite thing that happened with the hot tub in this episode, it wasn't even used.

But Hillary, you and Pete Wentz walking out of the house and you're saying, thanks for going on this walk with me. My doctor says it's really good therapy for my leg. You guys walk past the hot tub, like you're going to go into the woods. And then you sit on the swing. I'm like, they're not going on a walk. They're not doing any rehab for her leg. Who made these decisions? Terrible script.

I hated it. I hated it all the way. And I feel so bad for Pete Wentz. Poor Pete is my, that's my suggestion for this episode's title. Because that man, you know, his record label and his manager and, like, his whole team, we're like, yes, you're the heartthrob in the band. you're the cute one, and we're going to put you on this hit teen drama, and you're going to go kiss one of the lead girls on the show, and it's going to be great exposure, and this is going to be great.

The fans love it. They're going to love it. That sweet man showed up, and they gave him dialogue that an experienced actor would have difficulty making natural, because it was so, like, clunky. I had trouble with it, certainly. And then they just expect us to start sucking each other's face, And if you look, that scene on the swing, we don't touch each other.

My hands are in my lap. His hands are in his lap. We're just like, how do we? It was like sixth graders kissing, is what it was. So awkward. Well, and you said it, you know, I want to caveat this by saying, like, we're all friends. And we love Pete. Yeah.

And so we're laughing at how absurd and embarrassing this episode is. but also when we were watching it, Hillary, you were like, dude, they wrote him. His language is like grooming. Like, this is how grown up creepy men talk to actual teenage girls. Like, who did this to him and who did this to us and who made all of us who, again, to remind everybody at home, like, we're all around the same age. But like the dynamic on screen, it was so inappropriate. Like, my, I have like the creepy crawlies on the insides on my skin.

God. The fact that no one caught it, no one, no one person in the entire chain of command from the studio down was like, hey, guys, do we have any notes on this? Is this really inappropriate? Like you, you guys laying in bed and you being like, well, how's it going to work? Because I'm in high school. And he's like, we'll figure it out. What? I mean, we all, I mean, I kissed older boys when I was in high school, but it was a different time. We didn't know any about it. I didn't. You didn't.

No. Yeah. Well, you were at that cool all-girls school. I mean, I don't condone it. And I think there was a lot of blurred lines on our show because we had a boss that was trying to kiss some of us. So why shouldn't some of us be kissing a guy in their 20s? You know what I mean? Right.

Well, and I do think, and I know we talked about this, the first time Pete came on the show, And the whole, like, Pete Wentz, the character and Peyton flirtation began, like, it didn't register as weird, I think, to us then, because we are actual peers. Like, we're all the same age. But when you watch it back and you go, oh, man, they were having him act his real age and having us act 16, like, ah, I hate it, I hate it. He could do better, frankly. Poor Pete.

Like a grown-up woman. Yes. know um i had a 28 year old boyfriend when i was 18 of course you did joy of course you did you were a city gal also you were 18 at least yeah i was 18 you didn't have a 28 year old boyfriend like driving up to pick you up from high school no no no my dad would have put an end to that swiftly yeah i went on one date with a guy whose age i did not know and we went he took me to like a bar for dinner. And I was like, this is a strange choice for dinner. We're just going to eat dinner, right? Because I'm not drinking. And then we went to like a playground afterwards. And he legitimately

was like, do you know how old I am? And I was like, a playground. On a playground? You guys, Sterling Park was a wild spot to grow up. Wow. And he's like, do you know how old I am? And I was like, I don't know, like in your 20s. And he was like, I'm 28. And I remember thinking, Oh, God. Oh, no, I'm so sorry for you. I felt so bad for it. Like, there was a kiddie thing. Like, he did, you felt bad because you thought he didn't know that you were in high school? No, he knew that I was in high school. I felt bad like, oh, my God. Like, will girls your age not date you? Like, I don't really know you that well. Oh. So it's hard for me to figure out the why there, but, um, oh, baby, I'm so sorry. Oh, no.

Yeah. And, yeah, so for girls in high school, if there are any listening to our show, don't they, don't, don't do that. We don't do that. Don't do that. It puts me in, like, the part of me that responds, like, the dad from Clueless, that's like, I got a 45 and a shovel and no one would miss you. Yeah. Like, I'm just like, I will, this, we're going to, we're going to cause dangerous trouble here. Oh, yeah.

And that's me as a mom now, too, when I start thinking about Maria dating and, oh. Oh, my God. Well, that joy, they're getting to that age. I know. I know. Would you, has Maria seen the show? Has she ever seen Montreal? Is that what you said?

Yeah. Like, does she know that your character got married in high school? Yeah, she doesn't. She's seen it like walking in the room when we're doing our thing, but she doesn't. No, I'm not going to let her watch one tree Hill. She's too young for that. Yeah. She's 11.

In my opinion, in our house. That's, that's the rule. But, yeah, when I was 18, I was still, I mean, 18. 17, 17, what's the difference? But the difference is that there is an actual age limit, and that's important. But emotionally, you're still kind of the same place when you're an 18-year-old. Yeah, that's true. You're an idiot.

You're an no business dating a 28-year-old. And he had no business dating me. And it was, like, really clear that he was just trying to, you know. It's trying to get laid with a little young girl. I will say, it's like, I think about it a lot, you know, because we've talked about, your brain isn't done developing until you're 26. You're not allowed to order a drink in a bar until you're, 21. I'm like, how come grownups are allowed to date 18 year olds? I don't like it.

Yeah. Ew. I don't like it. Well, but IRL, we really like Pete Wentz. And honestly, for what a shit show this script was, it was really fun to go to the woods and be out at that house together and shoot like, like the scene where we all are playing, never have I ever. And it and the whole like Brooking Yourself thing comes out, I was watching us, and I was just, like, tickled by it because we're genuinely laughing. And with Paul directing, like, we were having fun in the scenes that tracked. Definitely. And they were, we were shooting nights, too.

We were late nights. So that was fun, being in a cabin, like on a new location, up late, just hanging out with each other. It kind of felt like we were at camp together. Yeah. Because we were away at a different place. that we had never been to before. And having Lee and Antoine and Bevin with us, like, it was just so fun.

We didn't have our normal, like, getaway spots because we were all kind of in there together. So, you know, there was a green room, but it was like our chairs were all different and in different places. We all just kind of ended up hanging out around the same area while other people were doing their scenes instead of disappearing into our trailers. I remember having, I don't know what the conversation was, but I remember that location was one of the only times James and I had like a really kind of long meaningful conversation because most of the time we were just working and we wouldn't like you know well yeah so again I don't remember what it was I just remember sitting in that living room like just hanging out while somebody else was doing a scene and we had a really nice long chat and I was like oh just you know always anytime you talk to

James it just reaffirms how much you love him right well yeah because he's so calm and that's how Nathan is in this episode. He's, like, removed from the rest of the group. The rest of us are being super fucking extra, you know? And there's like, hijinks everywhere, you know? And he's pulling his own hijinks. Nathan is becoming more and more, like, real-life James. Like, more reserved, more mature, a little quieter, less bravado.

Once he ditched Tim, you know. Where was Tim in this episode? That honestly would have been. fun. We needed him. Didn't get invited, guys. It would have been really fun. Yeah, I mean, this was, you know, this was around when Brett started working and they started getting the higher-ups got mad at him. And it's sad to think that, like, you know, in our early 20s, we had grown-ups, like, being retaliatory with us because we were curious about the world and wanted to work on other sets.

Oh, the horror. Yeah. I was like so dumb. How embarrassing, honestly. For them. Could you imagine any of us doing that today? To a child, to like a 20-something. Yeah. And being like, how dare you? You want to go do another movie? Like, I'm going to punish you. It's so, oh my God, it's so embarrassing.

It's really, really weird. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native comic. or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's interesting to check ourselves now that we are the age that we are, because we We are in the same position, like producing things and putting things out there into the world, and we have employees that are in their early 20s. And the idea of that kind of ownership is super strange.

And you see it in this episode, you know, like, DeNeil's character is vilified as a means to separate her from everyone else. And I feel like DeNeil was oftentimes, like, separated from everyone else. You know, cut her from the herd so you can get her attention yourself. Yeah. Because what was happening during this whole sunkissed campaign is that we were having to go to sunkissed parties. And they would send our boss and they would send some of us. And I went to one with Lee and DeNeil right during this time because that's when this

storyline was like blowing up with them. And it was a weekend of Hill in Miami with like our boss crying. in my hotel room, and Danielle, like, barricading herself in a room and, like, craziness. And so then we would have to come to set and act, you know, normal. Yeah, it was just so, it was so, there were so many things going on behind the scenes at this time. I think that's what I remember more. Like, I didn't remember shooting that club scene in this episode, but I remember all, like, the bad shit stuff going on. That's the sense of memory I have.

of. Yeah. I mean, this was a rough year for all of us. Like, season three was pretty brutal. But, like, favorite subject matter-wise, for me. Yeah, which is so interesting, but it is wild to look back at it now and just think, I cannot imagine being a grown-up and behaving like that. And, you know, not to, like, toot our own horn, but you guys, I'm so proud of us. Like, we made it through and we're pretty freaking well adjusted. Okay, okay. So we were, speaking of grown-ups, Joy knows Paul better than anyone on the planet.

And Paul directed this episode, and we had a nice little laugh. We had a nice little laugh because there are certain spots in this episode where we can remember Paul's direction. Because what's Paul's, like, big note? What's his big note always? Commit.

Commit. Commit. Commit. Commit to the material. So he's not wrong. No. It's just sometimes he gets stuck and can't. It's like there's an intersection between his sort of older brotherly need to make someone see something like learn.

You have to learn your lesson right now. I'm going to force you to learn it because nobody else will tell you the truth. And sometimes it's like, okay, I love you. But also everyone goes on their own journey. Like you can only say what you say and then move on. You can't force people to learn things the way you want them to learn them. Anyway, tell your story. No, but this is what I would say.

I would say this was a script where I felt like we were all saying, hey, can we have this line change? Hey, can we like change this? It doesn't make any sense for Peyton to walk from the porch to the swing. And Paul was, to your point, teaching us a lesson where it's like, take the awful thing and make it work. That's your job. Hit your mark and make it work. And so we made a lot of things work in this episode. We did.

And for me, it was when Pete Wentz was feeding me pasta sauce. And Pinkna has this really sarcastic, like, mm, because it was scripted that I was supposed to say, mm. And I was like, what? Why can't I just be like, oh, that's good, man? You know, like, why can't I just say, like, a normal thing that a person would say? Paul's like, Hillary, I want the mm. okay well you're going to get a I also love the weirdness of

that's family man that is that's just family it is the hoops they made that guy jump through and the fact that Pete is like Nigella Lawson in this episode like in every scene he's like making an omelette he's making a pasta he's cooking and things like what but he committed and it was very sweet

that's it you know that is true Hillary though this sense of, the sense of family. I mean, that's just what you, everybody's got their own weird quirks. Everybody has their certain way of doing things. Yeah. When you should, and, you know, we didn't have the advantage of space like we normally do where if somebody in your family's annoying you, you just go, you know, go home and then you

see them later. Yeah. In this instance, we were all family and it was like Christmas with your family where everybody's on top of each other for four days and you can't go anywhere and there's no space where you're free and you're all just. pulling your hair out because everybody's little eccentricities are coming up to the surface and we're all just a little on edge. Well, and there's no place to have a private conversation either.

Because if you wanted to have a conversation with Paul about the script, you'd have to have it in front of everyone else. Right, which never goes very well. That's not fun. I don't want to do that. What did you guys commit to? What did you commit to in the episode? Huh?

Oh, my gosh. I don't know. A storyline about teen. age masturbation. Girl, you sold that. I had to commit to that. I was on your side for that. Yeah, I mean, I, you made it work.

It's real. You did. Yeah, the, I remember get, I do remember getting this script and reading, like, Brooke having this whole solo, like, oh, oh, oh, reading Lucas's letter in the hot tub. And I was like, oh, just kill me. Like, just make it stop. I don't want to do this. But it, it actually, like, looking back on it, I'm, I'm, I'm so.

so amused by the storyline and I find it so funny and I was saying this when we were watching like that scene with DeNeil and I you know when Rachel walks in on Brooke and then they have this thing in the hall and it's like you didn't see what you think he's off and you know we're going back and forth it was so funny and I wish I wish that what was happening behind the scenes hadn't been because I feel like they made Brooke and Rachel enemies like you were saying to kind of segment her. Daniel and I are so funny together. Yeah.

Like, I love our scenes together and I just, I want more. Doesn't that happen later? Don't you guys become like comrades a little bit later? Yeah, well, eventually we move in together, but it always is weird. Like, I don't know. I just, I wish we'd really just been able to play

and, like, go in the direction that it really worked. She should have just gone back in the room with you, you know? Like, What's up? It's there, you know, there was something about it, though, that I like about, it's a love hate. It's not just a pure constant hatred. It's like C.C. Babcock and Nanny Fine. It's like, you know, you know, it's like they, they, it's fun.

It does make us all look like assholes, though, because of everyone hates Rachel, why are we at her house? Like, that's such a dick move. I know, we're like, free cabin on the lake. It's so weird. Yeah. Yeah, it's really kind of a dick move. But honestly, like, the term brooking yourself is still around. Oh, yeah.

And I'm not against it because I am very pro-sexuality, but I think that young women should be, you know, they should respect their bodies and not just share them with everyone. My feminism is like, earn it. You motherfuckers can't earn this. So be, you know, have a lot of, have a lot of high ideals about who you're going to sleep with, if you're going to sleep with anyone. But brooking yourself is a great alternative to explore your own sexuality and stay safe. So that's my PSA.

Safety first? I'm obsessed with a soapbox moment right now, Hillary. Listen, I just, I remember, like, girlfriends of mine, like, like sleeping with people in high school that were just mortifying. Just, like, mortifying. And I'd be like, ooh, sick, ew, why don't you just masturbate? Like, it was just, it seemed like such an easier answer. Yeah, it would have been nice to see that storyline examined a little bit more without, because because everybody else was paired off. So to see a young woman who was like, yeah, no, I'm not, I'm not interested.

I don't need one of you guys. I'm good. I date me. Yeah. Could have been interesting. Yeah, I agree with you, Joy. Because who was alone, Rachel? No, but she's like kind of paired off with mouth.

I don't know. Payton's usually that she stands alone. I just... I loved the comedy for Bevin when the whole thing happens, you know, the reveal happens during Never Have I Ever. And she's like, oh, I broke myself all the time. I was like, this is funny. Oh, I missed that.

Maybe my computer glitched or something. It was funny. It was funny. It normalized it. Because what was supposed to be. embarrassing for Brooke became like, yeah, everybody does that. Don't be embarrassed. That's stupid. I loved Bevin and Antoine in this episode, by the way. It was so fun to see them. I love their interactions. I wish that, and maybe it happens in the future. I would love to see a little bit more

meaningful conversations and meaningful, like, communication between the two of them. But it's so fun. It's so unexpected how kind of perfect they are for each other. Yeah. They're so great. And also, credit to Lee, the writer, forgiving Bevin, this hilarious niche arena of expertise. She knows the Latin name of every tree in the world and had a spot.

That was so, so funny for the way that they wrote her character to be the very sort of archetypal ditsy cheerleader to then be like, you know, a low-key Steve Irwin. I was loving every minute of that. I always wanted to be somebody shorty. Is that what she says to me?

Somebody's shorthy. I always wanted to be somebody shorthy. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a. sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Joy, can we talk about the proposal on the dock? What did you think about this storyline? Because we had opinions while we were watching. Well, you said that he should have given her a different ring, which I agree. It was weird that they'd be. built this whole storyline for Nathan around getting her ring off her thing. I mean, I guess it's realistic. Like a high school boy would come up with that. All right. But there

weren't high school boys in the writer's room. And it would have been nice for them to elevate the material a little bit and come up with something. Give boys something to aspire to. Yeah, a little more creative. Yeah, I don't like the whole, you called it out, like stressing a woman out only to come in and save the day. It's just weird. It's a weird. habit. But I love that they did this with Nathan and Haley, that they got to have their own real proposal moment and that they're going to have their own wedding in front of people. I think that's really sweet. I loved that too. And I thought it was really nice. You know, we've been in such sadness. And to have an episode where we got to laugh and where

there was some happiness, you know, for all of its clunkiness. I really like that. that they gave Nathan the reflection on what Keith's loss meant. Because obviously with Karen, it's really raw. Lucas is trying to figure out what this means for him and his mom. But there was something very, I don't know, I thought it was very smart. Almost the way when you've got a great narrator in a story, they can offer perspective. Like they really gave Nathan the opportunity to offer us perspective. and for him to say, you know, Karen and Keith didn't get to stand up in front of everyone.

And Haley and I didn't, and I want us to. What's unsaid is we're still here, so we'd better. You know, let's be in community while we can. And I really thought that that was such a special lesson to take away from grieving. And I think James did a beautiful job with it. Yeah, I agree. When does the wedding come? Is it like in a couple episodes or do we take our time with this one?

I feel like it's season four. Is it? No, you guys, it's the finale because you go off a bridge, don't you? Oh, yeah. It's like the big finale. Oh, yeah, it's the finale. Okay, all right, well. I don't go off a bridge.

Nathan and Cooper? Cooper dives in. Nathan's in the limo. Is it someone driving drunk? Rachel was driving drunk. Rachel's driving, isn't she? Oh, and that Led Zeppel. The Zeppelin song plays.

They paid so much money for that Led Zeppelin song. Well, we'll get there when I'm talking about. We'll get there when I get there. Wow. The cabin. Okay. So, if we had to take our whole cast that was in this episode and go somewhere. Ooh, fun.

Like, where would we go? I always want to go to the mountains. Yeah, we would need more than five bedrooms, friends. There are so many of us. We're grownups now. We don't share. I mean, are we not renting a house in the south of Italy and, like, I mean, yeah, I've never been to the south of Italy.

I don't know, girls. Tell me, is that where we should go? That's where I want to go. Chiquita. I don't know. Sophia, you know all the spots. Oh, man. My dream for myself is to take over, like, an old Italian villa, a whole agriturismo set up,

make olive oil and just retire. in Italy with my tomato plants. And like, that's, yes. I'll come visit you. So, um, if what you're saying is we could begin traveling around scouting and it would be a reunion for work. And then we, I'm into it. It's a tax ride off.

I'm like, let it's for the podcast. We're working. Guys, let's go. We're recreating season three episode 18. Yeah, but like grown up fancy style. I'm into it. Okay. grown-up stuff we have to talk about Karen we have to talk about more in that scene it was so

beautiful wow it was scary another thing it's like that bums me out of I mean I love this show guys you guys I love our show I don't want it to feel like I don't but it's because it's so good when it's good and the potential we know what what they're capable of so when it falls short it's so frustrating. Yeah. And I really, there was so much potential to have a group grieving time, big, big tears, big laughter together, processing things together, rather than just everybody getting off all weekend. Yeah. Yeah. You know, it's like, how is this healing? And to bring that into Karen, like, that would have blended so nicely with moments back in Tree Hill. And we could have seen that transition right now again it just felt so hodgepodge it was like we're at the lake

somebody's in a hot tub it's cute they're jumping at each other's back somebody's uh it's like shenanigans oh wait we're kissing a rock star karen's now doing a very moira's doing like a serious acting piece moment and then now we're back to the cabin and it's it was just it was schizophrenic episode this episode just didn't know what it wanted to be you forgot the club night joy you forgot the dance party. I forgot the dance club. There was a DJ. With the girl shaking the t-shirts.

That poor girl. She's like, here, does anyone want one of these? No. Cool. I think it could have been so special, especially because this was clearly inspired by the big chill. Yeah. And if we'd gone to that cabin and the never have I ever had turned into more of a share. And you had seen, especially what this loss and the processing of it meant for Lucas and then for Lucas and Nathan as brothers.

And then you had cut to Karen saying, you have two sons, you know, where were you, your responsibility to your family? And you could have cut back and seen the way that, like, this younger generation of Scott Boys is doing family responsibility differently. There could have really been grief process. and, you know, the humor that sometimes comes with that release done in a way and we could have gone to like dance downtown in the next episode.

You know? Yeah. Oh, I do agree. I feel like they rushed it and they sort of scissored four episodes together and it was a missed opportunity. Well, why do you talk therapy when you can just have an orgasm?

You know, that's, that fixes everything. Honestly, but that's all, but to just, Joy's point. That's all it came down to. It was like, well, if the kids can just get off, they'll forget about all the trauma. Right. You know, ew. There's something so beautiful about the, the, um, humor is the wrong word. Help me. When you're grieving and it's, it's laughter that tears that turn to laughter that turn back to tears and it's the back and forth. I mean, um, I was just, uh, visiting family for a, um, a death in the family.

and we had a service and everybody had come from, you know, all four corners to just come and be there. And I know, Hillary, you've also been through, you've sat Shiva several times in the last couple of years. I've never done that. The experience, I mean, did you experience that in those environments as well when it's just, and I'm sure, Sophia, you've done that as well, too. I'm sorry about your family, Joy.

I mean, I know. Yeah. Yeah, but it's just, I mean, it's so wonderful to see. everyone and be together and it's hard to just sit and be real like you want to make everybody feel better or do something and everybody's sort of serving these roles like where do I fit how do I serve my role here and to see everyone feel awkward together I'm so I'm kind of talking in circles but I think that would have been so nice to see no but to your point I find that in those situations I used to be the dishwasher right right because there's

always the person who's like, there's the person who's like, I'm the trash bag person, I'm the dishwasher, I'm like the busy person. And as I've gotten older and have been to more of those events, I'm the corner talker. And so you find the person in the corner who doesn't quite know what to do and you start telling stories that are funny, to your point, you know. And giving people permission to laugh at those events is so important. And you have to read the room, you You know, like, you have to know that the person closest to the loss is okay with that. But sitting Shiva is great because you give yourself full permission to go dark and just sit and feel all the feelings for days. And then at the very end of it, everyone who's joined in and the family that's lost someone is supposed to get up and like take a lap around the block together.

and that symbolizes getting back out there into the world. And that, to me, is my favorite part of it. And that's kind of what our characters are doing in this show. Like the very last shot of us all lined up, we are out in the world together. And those group scenes, you know, even when we have to do clunky shit, they do hold a certain magic. Because we all represent really different things to our audience base. And to see that they can all play nicely together. is a good visual, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. I think it's interesting. Our issue with the episode is that we weren't really given time to grieve. Yeah. And I think as we've all experienced loss, you know, what you're really saying, joy, is that that time is so important. And it is, you know, to echo your point Hill, it is what I love about the tradition.

of Shiba it's not rushed and everything we do in the world feels so rushed yeah and to have something old and sacred about community that says sit here for days and days together feel really process really be in this really give yourself the space to experience whatever you will experience and then together begin to return, I wish we had more, more practices like that. Wouldn't it have been cool to see all of the Tree Hill kids just like walking down front street together, like taking the lap together? Did we ever do that? No. I don't think so. For as much as we shot downtown, I don't feel like there was ever, Like a, what is it, reservoir dog scene of all of us just, like, walking down the street.

Yeah, there should have been. Wait, think about how cool that would have been if there was somebody in the group who was of the Jewish faith, like, in our group, and who we were all trying to process our grief and we didn't know how to do it. And somebody brought up, like, well, this is what we do in my faith. And we all sort of, like, embraced it and figured out some weird way at the cabin to just, like, do our own version of Shiva. Like, that would have been so interesting to watch. and go through and then take the lap around the cabin. But we couldn't have been drinking wine and wearing sunkeness shirts, joy. It just doesn't match up.

It was a big swing and a miss with this episode. I'm saying it out loud because it's like I'm trying to rewrite it in my head so that when I walk away, I don't feel so bad about this episode. I can be like, no, this is what really happened in my mind. I create a new storyboard that. Can somebody do that for us? I'm so into it. Okay. Yeah, that's better.

Yeah, you know when everyone always says, like, well, what do you think your character would be doing today? I'm like, the questions I want to answer are, how would you ladies have rewritten your show? Oh, yeah. We'd just pick an episode and rewrite it. But you have to stay in your bathing suit the whole time, Sophia. That's good. Guys, did you see Antoine and Bevin's breath in the woods? And then knowing you guys were in those hot tubs, it was awful.

It was awful. I felt so bad for you guys. It was so cold. Also, I was laughing at myself because I had to get out of the hot tub, you know, after reading the letter. And I was like, oh, man, I see exactly what I'm doing there. I'm like, oh, you guys want to get us out of the water in bikinis all wet. Gough. I'm going to turn my back on you.

I'm going to hunch over like a little gremlin and get in a towel. Like, I just was not. I was like, you want the like sexy, you know, red bikini shot? You can't have it. Can't have it. Just like my little protestations. Sophia, you didn't commit. You didn't commit.

I didn't commit. She committed to something different. Yeah. I committed to me. And I love the book. Brooke's just wearing a sweatshirt the whole episode. She's just wearing Lucas's sweatshirt. I love that.

It's cutie. I did too. It felt really real. And I think that that was something we decided on. I vaguely remember having a conversation with Paul about that. that like why are we dressed up in the woods and it was like well you know yeah all right what do you want to do put on us with great do it and i i love i love when actors direct because you get to make those kinds of decisions that feel so honest totally you know what i will say also gets a sweet

honorable mention in this episode i loved Peyton and mouth in the bunk beds talking oh yeah that was cute i could still share a room with lee oh yeah like if i had to show that was so sweet that was so Sweet. When Lee and I did that Christmas movie down in Louisiana, our hotel rooms were right next to each other. And it felt kind of the same. Same energy. I was just like, hey, boss, you're coming over? We're making my macaroni and cheese. You want to hang out? I got a bottle of wine and some kid food. Come over. Yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native comic. or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, Vanessa says, how would you feel about a prequel showing young Dan, Keith, Karen, We've talked about this before.

That's a great idea and should be done. Wait, who would we cast? I don't know a lot of child actors. I'm trying to think of my Nickelodeon Disney Channel repertoire. Oh. But that would be really fun to see them in the, I guess it would be the late 70s, early 80s? No, no.

Because if we filmed in 2003 and our characters were supposed to be 16, that puts them in their senior year, 16 years before 2003. Somebody's going to have to do the math. That's like 19. No. 87. Yeah, so 80s.

1887? Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah. So you'd want to see like a few years before she gets pregnant. What if? Ooh, the 80s. It'd be like Tree Hill meets stranger things. I was just going to say, what if that's the crossover?

What if that cute kid with the good hair grows up to be? Dan Scott. I'm into that. Okay. I'm into it. I'd love to see that happen. I think what would be interesting too is the, because as it goes, the storyline, you know, Dan meets Deb in college.

So you would have, you would have to have a story that's centered around Dan and Keith. And it would be really interesting to see how Keith watched Dan and Karen's relationship. And then what happened when Dan broke Karen's heart, picked Deb, and. brought her home for like the first, you know, winter break from college or whatever, it would be really juicy. And to see like a young Tess Harper and Gerald McCraney types. But guys, speaking of backstory, that was one of the things that really struck me about this episode.

Where are Karen's parents? Yeah. Where is anyone in- Why is she alone? We've never explained it. No one's ever said she's an orphan. No one's ever... And Royal and Who does Tess?

I can't remember what Dan and Keith's mom's name. was, but they don't show up. The grandparents don't show up to their own son's funeral. Nobody explains it. It's just totally sideswiped. That's another thing we'd change about this episode. Yeah. Because that's when everyone shows up in rallies, you know? Yep. Mm-hmm. And we could see a young Ellie, too. Like, maybe you could be, there could be some sort of, like, intersection there somehow. I'm so obsessed with the backstory of, of Ellie and then John Doe, who played my dad, like, hooking up on the concert circuit back in the game. Yes. And then like Victoria's a whole like dynasty series waiting to happen. Oh gosh. That's right. Yeah, we want all the backstory. Give it to us.

Yes. Somebody write a check. Done. It's exactly right. All right. Riley asks, where would you rather hang out? Trick, the River Court, or Karen's Cafe? Okay, wait. Is this me like me now or or me in high school. Like, is this us in high school or? Ooh, I immediately went to now. Now I'd be, I'd be in Karen's Cafe, probably. That'd be, like, go right and I'd hang out and, like, chill there. I'm going to have to say trick for both guys. I'm still just like a bar rat. Hey man, can I get into some trouble here? Okay. That sounds good. How late are you open? Totally. High school me definitely wants to go to trick, but also, I want to

want to go to a truck and hang out with you guys in the green room and be like, no, this is ours. Like, this is our little space. We'll go watch the music, but then we have our little room back here because, you know, it belongs to us. Makes me feel very territorial, but in a sweet way, if that makes sense? No, it's good territorial. This is my hangout.

It was cool. It's cool. It's our clubhouse, man. Yeah. I don't know. Maybe, do we need to open our own trick at some point? Yes. Okay.

We do. Plantin that seed. Let's do that. Boom. Okay. Perfect. You guys, let's spin a wheel. I'm so glad that we're back to happiness.

Let's see what the wheel says for us. This is my favorite in a long time. It's you. You guys, who is most likely to secretly be a vampire? Secretly be a vampire. I mean, we've... Dan, yeah, we've been spinning wheels for a long time here. Yeah, we've never gotten that one before, my goodness.

I think Dan easily transitions over to what was that show with all the vampires on it. What was that show? True Blood? True blood? No. The show that was on at the same time as us with the vampires. Oh, the vampire diaries. Yeah.

Vampire Diaries. Big vampires, little vampires. Yeah, well, who doesn't age? Joy, you don't fucking age. You haven't aged a day. Are you immortal? Go on. She's shushing us.

Don't tell anyone. I'm just drinking the blood of virgins over here. Yeah. I think Dan Scott would for sure drink any blood he needed to to stay alive. Yep. I also like the first thing I pictured when it was like who's most likely to be a vampire is like all the creepy old medieval shit you used to have in your house, Hillary. I'm like, if you, I'm like, you probably have a coffin. that's a coffee table.

Like, I wouldn't be surprised if somewhere in storage that lives. Well, guys, it's not a secret. The whole thing was secretly be a vampire. You're right. You're right. I'm out and proud. Oh, my God. Remember, we were so obsessed with True Blood while we were filming our show.

Like, do you, okay, I just emptied out boxes of books that I've had in storage for a hundred years. I mean, I still found things that I've been storing since high school. I pulled, and you know, I was sending you all those photos from set because I was finding all this stuff. I have every book in the series of True Blood. I just found them all. We were so obsessed. Wow. Obsessed with that, like, the opening theme to that show, I was just like, this is the sexiest thing I've ever seen on television. Yeah. Oh, my God. Scars Guard is terrifying and so handsome. To die me. What a world. What a world. I know. And we were so

excited when Joe Mango went over to play with them. I know. Yeah. Man. He made a great werewolf. All right. What do we have next episode? I think you should read it, Hillary. No, guys, it's embarrassing.

No, you read it. It's Peyton's moment. It's season three, episode 19, titled, I slept with someone in Fallout Boy, and all I got was the stupid song written about me. And for the record, for the record, so many people have alluded to the fact that, like, they thought that Peyton and Pete slept together in this episode,

And I, for one, even when filming it, never thought that because Peyton is fully clothed the whole time, like in the zip up sweatshirt that she's had on the whole time. Remember, I asked when you guys were having to talk about that tattoos, I'm like, why doesn't he have his shirt on? Like, it's weird because it's so clearly not happening. Because somebody walked over to him at the last second probably and was like, we want to do this scene without your shirt. Is that okay? He was like, sure. Sure. Or somebody said, you can't have your shirt on

if you're counting your tattoos. Yeah, well, neither Hillary Burton or Peyton Sawyer has had sex with anyone in Fallout Boys, so. Boom. Done. Rumor squashed. Until next week, everyone. Go get your squash.

It's October. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also. Go follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H.Harendh. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dramma girl. Chearing for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens

It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the Eye Heart radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.