Drama Queens - Honey Grove • EP417

Episode Date: March 15, 2023

Imagine your favorite TV show arrives in your small hometown. That’s what happened in Honey Grove, Texas when the cast and crew took the show on the road and filmed on location. The girls reminisce about the trip and it’s filled with nostalgia, friendship, lasting memories and deep emotions.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Hey, hi. Hello. Welcome back, everyone. It is season four episode 17. It gets the worst at night. A lot of depressing titles for our show. My God. Especially for a happy episode. We're having this uplifting moment after a lot of actual depression and sadness. And then they're like, let's just keep the titles really sad. I know. I don't know why because it really was a fun episode. I don't get it. what happened to this episode. It aired May 9th, 2007. The synopsis is that the teens of Tree Hill, that would be us, mount a rescue mission to retrieve Marvin from his ill-advised road trip with Rachel. While on the trip, Haley and Nathan get a second chance to enjoy the prom. Well, and I guess

Brooke and Peyton do too. We actually dance this time. And Lucas and Peyton decide to take their relationship to the next level. Brooke tells Haley that she lied. She was the one who lied about stealing the calculus exam. then struggles with the residue of a past mistake. And we went to Honeygrove. We sure did. Dude, I still have my Honeygrove, Texas hat. I do too.

I have, you just found a whole thing in my attic full of Honeygrove paraphernalia. Like the police, you know, little badge. Yeah. Yeah. Police badge. Why did you have a police badge? Like, remember every single, no, every single. I don't know, organization in Honeygrove came out for this. I mean, we had law enforcement,

the fire department, and the public school system, and the mayor, and everybody came out. Yeah. It was so wild because we originally got into Paris, Texas. Well, yeah. How did we even end up in Honeygrove? There was a contest, but it was submissions from all over the United States or something. Like, what was the, does anyone remember? So I remember, and I don't remember where we launched it. I can't remember if they made us do commercials or if they were running radio ads, but they got fans to submit videos. And they asked, like, as a team of friends, you know, get your sort of high school crew and tell our high school crew why they should come and do prom with you guys. And these kids from Honeygrove just made the

most charming video and they toured us around the town and they took us through the school and they talked to us about, you know, everything that they were doing and what they were into. and why they related to Tree Hill. And I remember, to Hillary's point, we got into Paris, Texas, late at night. That's where the motel was, because there wasn't even a place for us to stay in Honeygrove. Right. And as we filmed there, we started to learn about, you know, this phenomena that happens, you know, not just around America, but all sorts of places when you go through these huge generational changes and industry changes and these towns that we're. once had some big industry no longer do.

Yeah, and Honeygrove was in this process, you know, not to be morbid, but it's what they said to us. It stuck with me. They said, you know, we're a town that's in the process of dying. And I remember, like, having to hold back tears. And so I think that was part of the reason, you know, coming in with all of us and a 200-person crew and tour buses and music and all the stuff. You're right, Hill.

everybody came out it was like a festival like we threw a festival for five days it was so special to be a part of that with them and it was fun like i i liked you know rolling in at night we couldn't see anything we wake up the next morning and there's like a fake eiffel tower in paris texas right but then as we drove out to honey grove it's all it's you know it was like a lot of farmland and i remember being super creeped out at seeing like coyotes being just like no baby tacked up on the fence post oh Jesus yeah do you remember that just seeing like skulls and pelts and stuff and I was like what what is going on here I had the first because you know I get real nostalgic about touching old things which is why I go to the flea market every weekend and when we first drove

into town and it was like golden hour in the morning because we have to get up so freaking early I was like, look at these old grain silos and the fading paint. Oh, my God, it's so beautiful. Is that a dead animal? Like, it shook me out of my beautiful, like, Americana reverie real quick. Yeah, it was, you know, I've been around taxidermy my whole life. I just never seen anything just, like, tacked up on a fence before. That was, that was too rich for me. What is that practice? What's the, I wonder what the point of that is. I think maybe it's supposed to, like, ward off other predators. Or it seems like a lot. And then I remember referencing it with the high school kids and they were just like, oh, yeah, that's like, you know, that's a weird thing that the older generation does. We don't do that. Because I do think there is a lot of cool stuff about how a young person grows up in a town like this.

You know, we have TV and movies. And so you're exposed to the wider world, even though you live kind of in this little bubble. Yeah. And so the kids of Honeygrove had like a million questions. And did you go over to their house that night? We went and we did a watch party at one of the kids' houses. Unfortunately, I was like really stuck in a weird place in life at that time. And I just wasn't being very social.

And I regret it deeply. Well, there was a really cute little boy that was like a musician. And he knew that our show was all about music. And so we went and we did this watch party at the house. of this group of girls. Awesome. And this kid was like, what was he? Like an eighth or ninth grade?

I think he was definitely like freshman energy. I loved him. He played like a senior. I mean, he played like a boss. And we were all like, okay, honey. And it was so fun to just like find this kid that we would have never been exposed to otherwise and celebrate that he had this amazing gift and go to a local house party. I love a house party.

Fantastic. I love that. I wish we had been able to. able to do that with our show more go out on the road and connect with people you know the people in the towns that those kids that are watching our show and feeling so connected to us because that's who we were to them just kids in a small town yeah it felt real you know it felt really real that when we watched the party back you guys said it it's like oh no we didn't have to do anything to pump these extras up right that was a real party they all just showed up they were so happy to be

there. I loved, I loved looking at the landscape when we, you know, anytime I go into a small town that's like, that's like that kind of deserted and there's all these old buildings from the 40s, 50s and 60s, you can see it was once really thriving and then, yeah, as you said, whatever the industry was left. I always wonder what that's like growing up in a high school like that. I didn't at all. You've seen last picture show, right? Remind me. It's a little. It's a little, Larry McMurtry book Last Picture Show, and then they made the movie of it, has Sybil

Shepard, and you know, it's... No, I didn't see it. What is it? Oh, my God. It's incredible. It's about a small town in Texas, right? And I want to say they filmed it in the 70s, but it's about the 50s, and it is identical to the narrative that we experienced

while we were there in the 2000s. And so it's kind of interesting to look at our episode of our show where the Main Street has the exact same aesthetic as this classic American film and classic American novel. And it's existed, you know, for a hundred years now. Well, that is Americana. That's what it is. That's that feeling that you get where it's, the old and the new kind of all merging together and all of this kind of country culture. I think it's so interesting. And I know that it probably feels really

boring to the kids that are growing up there. What they don't realize is that they're going to turn into that older generation. That's perfectly fine with it. I'm like, I just want my land. No one talked to me. Exactly. Like, I'm happy. Just leave me alone.

Let me enjoy my life. You don't know that when you're 16. No. I want to go to the city. I'm going to go to the city. Well, we really did have a good time. And this episode definitely addressed that older generation. We have to address the Dan and Karen of it all because it's on earth.

It carried through the whole episode and I gagged every time. I know. I feel like because they're, look, they're doing this parallel path with Dan and Karen getting more intimate and him being sweet to her and her saying, maybe I could love him. And, you know, it's obviously, Moira was doing such a beautiful job in the unsaid in her performance because you see it scratching this old it or healing this old wound, you know, the Dan and Karen of high school years. And it's parallel pathed with Lucas getting closer and closer to the Abby reveal. He realizes who she is.

He's looking for her in this episode. So I feel like the writers are making Dan and Karen lean so far in so that when Abby's secret is known by all of us, it'll feel like a bigger gut punch. Yeah. For sure, that's the strategy. Right? Isn't that why this is happening? It has to be. I mean, to me, I saw each of the Dan and Karen scenes where he's like, I want to be here for you and the baby.

I would be mad if you didn't call me. That's a very Lucas Scott move, you know, when he stays to make breakfast, when he finally admits to her, he's like, I haven't felt this way since I was 17 and very much in love, you know? He's admitting she's the only woman that he's ever loved. all of those scenes bookend either a Haley and Nathan scene and it's these two boys of Dan Scott are also more in love than they've ever been at 17 and so are they which one of them is going to end up like their dad yeah which one of them is going to be the one that really thought they were in love at 17

and then no size you know and then pulled the rug out I cringe every time I watch yeah the Dan and Karen stuff because you just can it's it's the it's the babysitter running upstairs when the intruder comes in the house like don't go upstairs every time i watch karen and dan i'm like don't do it he can't also is tree hill so small because it's so small that there's nobody else to make out with it's this like she's needing closure i mean that has to it's so human right like it's got to feel good to her on some level like eventually after all this time he couldn't resist coming back to her there's you know on some level that's got to feel good to her ego i don't i'm not saying i don't think karen is like

obsessed with her ego at all but we're human like the things that make us feel good it's hard to run away from so if you have your hand up you're like no i'm just like i'm dying because you're giving this really lovely answer and all i could think of hill when you were like is tree hill really that small? I'm like, well, we made Tree Hill and the only people any of us ever kissed were all of each other. So clearly there was nobody else to make out with Hillary. I mean, I'm not

going to admit to all the people I kissed in Wilmington, ever. But I found a bigger bubble. There was a little teeny tiny tunnel under the screen drum studio where you could exit and find

other people. Oh my God. But to your point, like, I don't I don't know. I worry that Karen doesn't have any friends to tell her, like, don't run into the house. Karen has no girlfriends. Well, and what an interesting thing that one of the tactics, when you look at, you know, the wheel that they show you in therapy, if you've ever been in an abusive relationship, and they say, here's how you need to understand the system of how these relationships work. One of the biggest chunks of the wheel is isolation. Yeah.

abusive partners isolate you so you have nobody to go to as a sounding board to talk about what's happening to you and say hey that's crazy yeah and it's really interesting to me that in the landscape of the show you know for reasons that were probably less um philosophical probably just the fact that again they didn't want to spend too much money on too many actors they weren't going to cast friends for karen she had deb or whatever but she is an ice isolated woman who is being manipulated by this person who she's already been in this abusive cycle with and he is love bombing her and he is he is bending the truth to fit his narrative so that she will love him and it's like oh man it makes like every alarm bell in my body go off yeah i memorized that chart and i don't like it ugh, I want better for her. Yeah. Like, who does her hair?

Do you know what I mean? Like, clearly someone's cutting her hair. Yeah, exactly. And, like, what hairdresser in town isn't like? Why, she doesn't talk to anyone? Well, the one person she did start talking to was Deb. But now, obviously, that's off the table. She can't talk to Deb about this.

I know. And she can't talk to the kids. I mean, at least she keeps that boundary. She's not, like, sitting Haley down and being like, listen. It may look different. But native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Speaking of female friendship, the Brooke and Haley falling out in this episode is... It's funny.

It's so uncomfortable. I mean, I get it. I get why Haley was upset. I do. I don't know. I feel like maybe it's... Is she overreacting? Well, she did get fired.

No, I don't think she's overreacting at all. I don't think she's either. I think what I appreciate about it is the fact that this storyline for us deals with complexity in a real way like we acknowledge how complicated this is brook says i wanted to tell you but then she said i wouldn't graduate i'm also going to lose my job like i don't know what to do and haley's like yeah but i lost my job it it's a fight about things it's not just you said this and hurt my feelings and nan nan nan it's also not about boys which is nice yes it's it's about real complicated moments and when we make a wrong choice and then it sends us down a rabbit hole and everything only gets

worse and the things we're trying to hold on to and just all of it and even the fact that you say in that scene yeah i lost my job but you should graduate and brook says i get that but you're my friend it we get to explore all the layers of why this would be such a hard thing for two people to talk about yeah and i really appreciate that because you're right sometimes when the characters are fighting over a boy it's like really we're going to act like this is important. This is something really important. This is important. Yeah, and I loved it. I love that Brooke owned up to it. I thought that was really cool because it would have been really easy for her to just let it go. And those are the character. Especially with

Rachel being gone. Absolutely. Rachel's gone. So like the scapegoats gone. There's no reason to, there's no reason except for her own character, her own meaning integrity to do that. And I thought that was really cool. I buy Haley's anger. It's the betrayal. It's like, Now I look stupid because I've been making fun of this girl for like weeks now. I've been talking a shit about this girl for weeks now. And she didn't do it? Like it was you? What's also interesting to me is that Brooke does some revisionist history and says, I did it.

She just took the fall. When in reality, no, Rachel hatched a plan and you two did it together. but but brook knows that she's the one who should have done it differently yeah and i like i kind of like that yeah i i do like it especially because all that's happening in this episode is rachel is just being shied on the whole episode what is going on oh my god well we know what's going on yeah it's so gross and and you know what would hit me and maybe it's because we were in another high school and we're having these conversations about what it means that this moment is almost over. And I think about Chris Keller being like, ooh, Rachel and all her plastic parts.

And then the guys in the jail are talking about her plastic surgery. And then you're talking about it. And everybody, and it made me think of the time capsule. When Brooke says to camera, no matter what you do as a girl, you know, the paraphrasing is, no matter what you do, it's always wrong. If you're fat and dumb and you're a guy, it's fine. But if you're a girl, not so much. And if you're sexy, you're a whir.

And if you're not sexy, you're a prude. Girls can never be enough. And we had an adult writing an episode about a teenager who, by the way, he wrote to have had plastic surgery. Yeah. And then all anybody does is make fun of her plastic surgery and act like, because she's so pretty, but she didn't earn it. So, fuck her. And it's so gross. It's like, no matter.

what you are, they will rip you to shreds. Even, I mean, Mouth is talking about something totally benign. I don't even know what he was saying because I got so thrown off by Chris Keller going, bitches. Like, I'm so horrible over that. I'm so over men just calling women bitches as though it's a completely acceptable way of communicating. Yeah, Mouth, that was our boss's monologue. Oh, yeah. And remember what we were talking about while we watched the episode? Okay, so guys, we obviously read your messages. And we've noticed this for a while. And it hit us listening to that insane monologue. There's always going to be somebody else with her. And you know what I realized? And yeah, I saw her naked, but I didn't fuck her. The whole thing is so gross. And so many of you say,

like, oh, I had to let her go. Oh, it's just disgusting. And so many fans will say, like in this whole mouth Shelly Rachel, period. Fans will write in, they'll tweet us, they'll DM us and say, we don't recognize mouth anymore and this version of him is so gross it's because this isn't mouth it's our boss writing himself as the i'm such a nice guy and all the sexy girls don't want to have sex with me and isn't it sad for me but i'm so much better than them and that's why we look at the episode and go who is that guy we don't recognize that guy because poor lee had to deliver these gross guy monologues that were targeted. at the young women on our show.

And you're right, Joy. But when Lee's doing our boss's monologue out loud as his dialogue, then Chris is like, yeah, bitches. And then all the guys in the prison are like, wow, you're just surrounded by all these hot bitches. You're a stud, bro. And it's like, oh, it's so, it's gross. It's so demeaning and demoralizing.

It really is. Oh, man. Well, and also, Mouth swore to Shelley. He swore to Shelley. he wasn't going to tell anybody that they had sex because he knew how important her identity as a clean teen was to her and what does he do he tells everybody single person he can his best friends and perfect strangers tells everybody and if you look at our boss's life at the time he was in a relationship that he'd been in since he was very young and i don't know how he felt

in that relationship but mouth was in a relationship with shelley she didn't make me feel like I was good enough. I was never good enough with Shelly. You wrote this down what he said. Oh, I did. Yeah, I love this. You're on it. Go.

Dude, he says, Shelly made me feel not good enough. And that's when Chris Keller's like, bitches. And then he says, with Rachel, I knew it was a lie, but she was flirting with me. That is 100% our boss talking. And he calls Rachel a pain reliever. And he says, you know, No, she told me I was good enough. All I wanted was to amaze Shelly, and I couldn't.

And it's like, what? What? It's so out of context. It just comes out of nowhere. It's a pure example of someone in power wanting to use their platform for their own messaging of and processing whatever was going on with him. It had nothing to do with the show. It was not best for any of the characters.

It wasn't best for any of the actors. It was just totally selfish. gross and every turn he got think about this this is when denial left this is when in real life punished in this episode like that was a conversation we all had behind the scenes everyone's going to get to go do this fun trip and you don't get to go wanted you to do and you don't get to play well so don't forget this in in the timeline denial has left they've given her not even an exit she just disappears and everybody talks about she disappeared this is also In real life, when she began dating her now husband, who was the gorgeous guy at the bar that mouth is talking about.

That's our boss talking about how jealous of Danielle's husband he was. And the entire episode, when she has just disappeared from the face of the earth in terms of Tree Hill, all anybody does is talk about her body. We do eight jokes in a row about why would he need ass? He's with Rachel. it's over and over and over and over again and then the way they made it okay is that when Brooke is the last person to say it everyone goes assistance in unison

and it's like it's just the joke it's a sitcom joke but when you really look at it you see how it was all so insidious and I hate that we were all so I guess living in a time it's just cultural living in a time

when it was still acceptable to see that in the script and none of us were like marching in there like, how do you? Like, that's just where, you know, we were, we had an understanding of the context of the ceiling of what we could do that, you know, at that age and just what it was like this, we don't know, what else could we do? And now obviously we know, but. And by the way, it is part of the reason, because don't forget, we would complain. So when it's just Chris Keller saying, bitch, or some guy who's a guest star for one episode

who says something gross about her body in the jail and doesn't know the greater context of what we're dealing with. We did complain. And it's why they made the ass joke. You and then you and then you and then you and then you and then you and then all in unison. And it's like, well, if we take it out, we have no scene. They figured out ways to force us into these positions. And it's not that I'm...

Look, I love filthy humor. And I love a good joke in a scene. I love for the humor, you know, just a little bit. But when it's targeted at someone rather than simple humor, it just doesn't feel good. And I don't like that we were all used in this episode to just pile on our friend. Because she said to her grown-up married boss, please stop hitting on me and please stop touching me and please stop trying to make out with me at bars. I'm very uncomfortable. Like, that should just be the bare fucking minimum.

Yeah. The bare minimum. My God. Oh, this was a nightmare period. Like, I love this trip. I, in fact, still wear the long-sleeve Grateful Dead T-shirt that we wear when we arrive in Honeygrove. I have it. I wear it once a week.

Once a week I wear that shirt. It is so thin right now. But it's because we self-edit. It's like, I'm going to remember. going to the hotel bar. Do you guys remember where we stayed, there was a road crew that was also being put up at the hotel? Because it was that cool two-story motel you shaped with the courtyard in the middle.

It was like being at summer camp. And they had the hotel bar. And it was the only place to go. And so we had all these like union, you know, like road crew dudes hanging out in this bar. And then all of a sudden, Tree Hill descent. And then all of a sudden, Tree Hill descent. And so I went with Jojo and I learned how to two-step from a bunch of those dudes. And I'd, like, I danced with those dudes. I had a great time. It was so fun.

That's the stuff that's, like, nice to cling to because that trip is also when our boss assaulted me. And so it's like the duality that we're seeing in the scenes also was existing behind the scenes because it's like, how do I have a good time but also have this. memory of just wanting to yak, you know? Yeah. I think you bring up a really important thing, and I got to say hats off to you. I didn't know if you were going to say that part, you know, on the show or not. But people assume that you've either had this, like, very intense moment. You know, you've been assaulted, like, in an alley by a stranger, and it was horrible.

Most of what, you know, statistically we all go through is something happens with someone you know. And you had this horrific moment with our boss that was so unacceptable. And it was inside of a container of many days of great memories. And that's, I think, where it's sticky and where we as a society need to get a little bit better about understanding that many things are true at the same time. We have beautiful memories of Honeygrove, of those kids, of that party we went to to watch that episode of those amazing guys teaching everybody to country. dance at the bar, and you had like a car crash of an incident with a grownup that was supposed to be your mentor, and he was abusive and creepy to you. Yeah. And had just put you through filming an episode where you were physically abused. Well, he also, when we announced

Honeygrove, I don't know if you guys are aware, like, how we announced it, but I don't remember. Um, we secretly flew into Honeygrove and went to a school pep rally. And so he decided that it was going to be just me and him. And so just me and him had to fly to Honey Grove. Just me and him went and did the announcement. Just me and him flew home together. The flight back from that is when he assaulted me. Uh, he assaulted me again in the car on the drive from Raleigh to Wilmington. He went straight to set. And he told Daniel, that he and I made out the whole time and it was fun and he was trying to make her jealous and so she confronted me about it and was like, what are you doing? And I'm like, what are you talking about?

You know? And so then we had to go on this trip with him and this was really like the last three months where my blood was boiling and I didn't know how to process it anymore and you can see it in the episode. You can see that I'm not there. You know, like I'm doing all these scenes with Chad

but I look like shit, and I kind of like just don't, I'm not connecting in any way because I was so in like, I don't know, shell mode. And my reaction to that kind of stuff is to not let it ruin my good time. My rebellion is to be like, oh, you wanted to like assert your power? Cool, cool, cool. I'm going to have a great time and laugh extra hard with my friends. Yeah. And so my memory of Honeygrove is like partying with James Lafferty.

I never partied with James. I'm partied with Lafferedy and Honeycrow. But by the way, I think that is, we're very similar in that way. And I think part of what breeds that response, you know, I've said it before on this podcast. We've all talked a lot about it. The response to mistreatment for me is usually,

oh, you think you're going to fuck with my integrity. Watch this. I'm going to be early. I'm going to know my lines and everybody else's. I'm going to, like, watch me. And when everybody goes out, I'm going to have the best time. And you're going to wonder how I could be having so much fun with you in the room. And I've come to realize it's a self-protective thing.

And I think when people wonder why that reaction comes into play, what I want to highlight, especially for you in this moment, this is season four. We're on six-year contracts. Yeah. There is no, you don't like it, you get to leave. No, you don't. They literally own you. Yeah. It's a legal battle to leave because they own you.

And so you can't get away from it. You can't quit it. And it's hard. So you have to figure out how to cope inside of the place that you know you have to show up in every day. Yeah. I hope it's okay for me to ask this, but why didn't you ever report him when that happened? Oh, I did. I told all sorts of people. Oh, you did. I mean, honey, I told everybody. And people saw it. What's interesting about the culture now, people, Chad walked up and goes, what are you doing? Right? He said that to him.

He said that to our boss in the bar. He watched our boss grab me in front of a lot of people. And, you know, Chad didn't have anything to lose because he knew our boss hated him anyway. You know, a lot of people had a lot to lose. So you don't speak up when you have a lot to lose. But he felt so comfortable that that was not something that he had a problem with. You know, I can do whatever I want to her in public with her boyfriend standing there. At that time, you have to remember, like, Desperate Housewives was the biggest show on TV. And Nicolette Sheraton was going through hell because she'd been assaulted on set, and they dragged her through the mud. That's right. it was that era right like it just hadn't yeah didn't matter even you know the thing with their

friends the writer in the friends room that you know you had talked about with the HR meetings and if like people you are related to on set aren't acting alarmed right like I was surrounded by men that I had relationships with my brother my boyfriend my boyfriend's dad my boyfriend's uncle like they were all like whatever they were all like you're such a trooper you know like Yeah. So that was the sentiment. No one was ever like, whoa. Yeah. We got to handle this. It wasn't until I went to my next job. Yeah. And they culture you to handle it. But to be clear, because people want to say, oh, it was a different time, 10 years later, in the same way, you were going through this on your set, this is what I was dealing with on my next set. It's pervasive. It wasn't then. It was all the time. Yeah. And, and, you know, years later, in the the same way that you were going through this stuff and our boss was doing this to you in front of people. It hit me that exactly what was happening to you at this time in North Carolina, that's what was happening to me years later. Yeah. In front of rooms full of men. And, you know,

my sweet, a camera operator would pull me aside and go, I want to punch the fuck out of that guy. Yeah. I've got to pay for my kids to go to school and I can't. What do you need? And the people who were in charge, like your boyfriend's dad and uncle and all those people who said nothing, the people who were in charge that I went to said nothing. When I reported my first assault on set, which was witnessed by people to my boss who had flown in from L.A., again, you get put in a different city and they can get away with a lot. His response was, well, thank God he didn't try to rape you. I don't even know how to wrap my brain around that response. That's insane. It was so like, oh so you're not allowed to say don't be so upset about this but you're saying don't be so upset about

this you got accosted by our boss in a bar full of our friends and they looked at the ground because they were afraid to confront him and it's like oh it's a life lesson to learn it uh if this is season four yeah we're 24 years old the life lesson for me is like never ever ever expect someone else to take a risk for you. Just don't. Because that way, if someone ever does, you can just be pleasantly surprised. And you're not disappointed. But it's so sad. It's not, though. Like, we're all grownups. We all handle our own shit. I handle my own shit. And everybody can't be willing to take a bullet for everything. Like, there are things you have to kind of strategize about in your life. And yeah. Because I, because when everything came out during the Me Too movement,

I felt a sense of like members of our crew who I'd been friends with for a long time tiptoeing around me because they didn't know if they were supposed to like bring it up or apologize or not apologize or make excuses or disclaimers and like just blanket statement to put out into the world I don't expect anybody to have done anything

because we were in a different era at that point and there were a couple people like your friend Sophia like Steve Allen was my guy. Yeah. Steve Allen was a guy who pushed the dolly for our camera on our show and was the safest, warmest, kindest place for me. And for anybody that went to that one treehole convention we did with Beth Crookham, they saw Steve Allen come into the lobby and me run across the lobby and burst into tears. And everyone's like, why is Hillary crying on that guy? Because that's the guy. That was my safe person. He was special. But to have someone like a Steve or, you know, like I had Will and Seth, like, I got to say, I hear what you're saying. I remember having the reckoning on our show together of going like, oh, all our bosses, all those guys who work with our main boss who talk about how we're family and all the things. We're only family until us needing help jeopardizes their money.

And that was such an ugly realization to me, but when you say I don't expect anybody to do anything, I sure is do. I don't accept that. I don't accept it. Well, now you do, but back then. No, I have always been the person who will get involved, who will jump in, who will try to shoulder something. And what I find unacceptable is that it's usually us. It's the women figuring out how to protect each other, how to not let somebody go in the room with the boss alone anymore, how to make sure. we've got a side text thread so that somebody can feel supported when they're, you know, being hit on inappropriately. And I'm so angry at all of these dudes in power who stand around and do nothing. And I have sympathy for everyone, you know, you hear that thing of like above the line below the line. I hate that. But I get that so many people on crews can't jeopardize their jobs because they can't jeopardize their families. But I am not okay with me. men that are our peers or more powerful than us? People like your boyfriend's dad, who was the second most powerful person on our set, who looked at the ground. And I say this with complexity

because I loved that person for the nine years we did our show. I do too. Yeah. And I know you guys did too. I still have a lot of affection for me too. A lot of the people that I'm mad at. And I do too. But I'm so mad. I'm mad at the other actors who don't do anything. I'm mad at the producers who don't do anything, because we're not supposed to have to do this alone. Do you think it's a perfect metaphor that we're covered in bruises, though, for this episode? Honestly, yeah. Like, we're covered in bruises. We're just beaten down.

That's how I felt. And it's the girls. Always. Yeah. And it's tiring. Do you think that sometimes the men don't stand up because they think we want to fight our own battles and we don't want their help? No.

They don't want their money to be jeopardized either. No, I believe that there's definitely. a part of that sometimes but I do wonder if there's some of it that's like should I like I don't want to I don't want to offend like if she's got this she's taking care of it like I don't want to the cool guy move is to ask the woman and say are you uncomfortable you want me to do something can I stand with you yeah right like yeah you're right the cool guy move it's so easy it's a question it's not hard to your point joy about the reporting and where we go like running things all the way up to HR and then having the most powerful local boss in my situation scream at me and tell me

that I was jeopardizing everybody's jobs because I couldn't quote unquote take a dick joke. And I was like being assaulted at work is not a dick joke. I have sympathy for the reality that people are scared that they're going to put a hole in the ship and then the ship is going to sink. But get over it and protect your people. Because this idea that, you know, looking at the ground is okay, it's not. And thank God, Hillary, that you had that moment with Chad, who was already so at odds with our boss. That's it.

He had nothing to lose. He was like, uh-uh. But by the way, he was protected as the number one on the call sheet. Yeah. He had the most power. So he could come up and shove our boss off you and get in a fight. And I'm glad that he did. I want everybody to follow that lead, you know?

Yeah, I mean, I'm sweating. And am I yelling? I'm sorry, I'm so upset. This is a sticky episode. Of all the episodes we've done, this one and the All Night Graduation Party are where things got incredibly complicated. Yeah. And, you know, when we had to revisit all of this stuff for the article that came out about our show, you know there was a lot of time spent on this era and so it's it's weird to watch because

I can see myself being super super fake and I don't know if the fans can see it like I don't know if they're like hey Hillary seems pretty checked out of this whole scene she didn't wait and have sex with Lucas forever we sure wish she looked happier about it I do not read you like that at all, but I know what you see because there are two and a half years of my life on a set like this, where I look back and I can see, like, I think I look like a dead person walking. Yeah. Like you, I can see it on my face. And I don't know that other people can or certainly people who don't know you well.

But it is a weird thing to see. It's like you're looking at another person. Yeah. I just wanted to be Haley in this episode because you got the cool outfit and you got the cool hair. That whole 70s vibe was so cute. You've got the safe relationship and like all the things were working. By the way, you know what melted me, you two in the gazebo and you saying, tell me a secret. And I'm going risky.

I was like, oh my God, tattoo it on my body. Like, I loved that. Risky. Oh, it was so cute. And after all that sweetness with you too at the prom, it was so nice to have a couple to just, like, feel joy for. Yeah, I loved them in this episode. I loved my haircut.

I was real happy about that haircut. I loved this wardrobe. Shout out to Carol Cuttschall, our wardrobe designer, costume designer. I mean, Chris Keller looked like a million bucks in every scene. Brilliant costumes for him. All of us, like the 70s prom? So fun. go so. The 70s prom was so chic. But truly, I took a picture on my phone of that frame of Chris Keller on the white bench in the purple and white suit with the balloons all around him in the white shoes. He, Tyler Hilton has never looked cooler. Oh, my God. I was obsessed. Such good wardrobe.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis,

who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. We built that gazebo and left it. as a gift to the town. Is that true? That was like, yeah. That was part of our like deal with the town council. Wait, you guys, something really stuck out to me because Daniel was getting the shit bullied

out of her in this episode. And then you've got Chris sitting on that bench looking so cool in his Elvis suit. God, I hope Tyler kept that outfit, not the point. Yeah. But it was so interesting to me that two of our contest winners, came by and we're like, oh, are you Chris Keller? Oh my God, how old are you? And they make fun of him for being this old guy

at a party trolling for younger girls. And I was like, hold on. This whole episode is about our older boss being mad at a younger girl who doesn't want to have sex with him. What's happening? Just too much. Do you know what I mean?

I literally was like, but wait, we're making fun of the creepy old guy. I'm confused. Was it like an interjection to, try to prove he had a sense of humor or something. I loved the scene you had with Chris. I thought that was so nice. At the end, when you walk up to him on the bus

and he's like trying to get you in bed and you're so clearly, it was a beautiful delivery, which is also hard to do when you're supposed to be playing drunk and having like a real life realization that is actually not, it's real. It's not something that you're hallucinating about in the moment. you know feeling over emotional about yeah i loved that and um and the way that you guys uh just decided

to have a nice chat all night and brook has this realization about her life and how she wants to change things it was so nice i loved it it was the firm no sophia yes yeah how good does no feel and how good it felt yeah and and what i loved too is that in a way we've seen through the season brook and Nathan recognize their similar patterns and lean on each other. And I love that in realizing how easy it would be for her to just numb out, she says, I don't want to be that version anymore. And then kind of calls him out to do the same, to grow up a little. Yeah.

It's so, yeah, I loved it. It felt empowering and fun. And I liked being able to voice that there is so much. growth available on the other side of that sort of vulnerability with yourself. Like, this would be easy. This is the thing I do. And it's something I actually really don't like. And it hurts me.

And I think I want to be different. That's so hard to admit something about yourself that way. And she does it. I got to do it as her in this way that felt awesome. Yeah. I love those moments in life because they come around and you can take, it when it comes. Like you can grab the bull by the horns and be like, here's this opportunity for me to acknowledge something. I don't really want to acknowledge, but I'm going to do it. And then I'm

going to keep moving forward with now this new information, because once you have new information, it changes everything. Or you can shove it down and wait until the next time it comes back around, and it's so much harder the next time. And it's even harder the time after that. So I love watching. It's one of my favorite things. So Brooke is one of my favorite characters because just like ever in in the whole history of the teen world that we, you know, has been given out to us because she's so honest all the time. It's just pure honesty. Like, this is exactly how I feel. For better or for worse, it's, I just love that she took it in the moment that it was there. She grabbed it and went, okay, okay, what's time to change? Let's do it.

So good. And then she calls Chris Keller out the next day. You said you were going to tell anybody. So good. So good. And in a way, like, I don't know why I have this memory, but I remember when we were filming that scene, you and I in the gazebo, and then he walks up and makes the threesome joke, I remember feeling like the energy under the scene for me was, I warned you about this last night. You said you weren't going to do sex jokes today and you did it. So now I'm going to tell everybody you cried. Yes, yes. Yeah. Like, I built this little backstory that they had agreed that he was going to be better. And then the first thing out of his mouth is a sex thing. And she. just eviscerates him, and I loved it. It made me giggle. I'd pay money to see that conversation. Like, her just being like, Chris, babe, like honestly, why do we always go there? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Late night drinking tea on the bus. Oh, my God. That's get real. That's the improv skit I want to do with Tyler at the next convention. Yes, please. Just be like, let's do Brooke and Chris talking about

their feelings on the bus. Just see where it goes. Yeah. I love it. Well, Hillary, you know, I have to say I'm so sorry that all that happened to you. And I mean, here's the deal. No, but wait, I want to, I need to give you a compliment right now because this is important. You, at the expense of, you know, what you felt like was subpar work for you. As Sophia said, we didn't really see that that way, but you know what you feel when you're at work and you're trying to do your best and you're, you know, you've always been somebody that. looks out for everyone. You're like, Mama Bear on the set, and you're always trying to check and make sure everybody's okay. And, you know, in a time when you were not okay, and I don't know

who was looking out for you. I know it wasn't me because I was tied up in my own drama. And I don't know what, maybe it was James and I, Steve Allen, I guess. And, you know, so if you were there, I wish I had been more involved. But I just, I'm, I'm impressed. And I, and I just, I guess I wanted to say like thank you as a cast member and a crew member for somebody to is just you know you were always looking out for everybody and even at the expense of your own work in times when you were going through a lot of shit and I'm just sorry that that all happened to you and I know that you get a lot of times you get what you put out and so I know there's a lot of good things that came out of that holding that space for people.

for you and I hope that there's more so anyway that's all I'm saying thank you okay no I appreciate that yeah I mean I this was a shitty one yeah yeah but Tyler and I did sing uh we oh god we sang um why was there no Elvis in this episode Johnny and June Cash it was like we ended the night on a keyboard in the bar singing Johnny Carter and June Cash that we got married in a fever song Oh yes

Going to Jackson Yeah Please tell me that's your karaoke song Like you have got to do June Carter in karaoke Did you guys Did you guys go karaokeing

in Honeygrove? I feel like I heard about that. No, it was karaoke in the bar It was at the bar. It was just in the bar. That's it You know, it's like hiding in the fun

Yeah is my safe space And so James and I stole walkie-talkies from the AD department and snuck around the whole hotel spying on people and had a great time. Dream. Tyler and I sang karaoke. Jojo and I line danced with the road crew.

I mean, we hid in the bushes at one point. We were just weird. Like, does that, man. Sometimes you're just going through the shittiest stuff, but then you have all these other amazing things happening that it's like, I love that balance. I'm so glad that all that fun stuff happened in Honeygrove. Yeah. Because it was.

Like, we all just got to take a big road trip together. How cool. It was fun. I wish we'd gotten to do more of it. Yeah. You know, you guys did it after I left. I have information. I'm Googling Honeygrove right now.

Davy Crockett discovered Honeygrove and called it Honeygrove because of an abundance of honey-filled trees in 1836. Wow. Oh, hot damn. Kind of funny. Oh, and something about coffins, it's a hardware store that sells coffins, too. That's funny. That tracks. Well, if there's anyone in Honey Grove that has pictures from our text,

time there. Yes. They're still taking pictures in the gazebo. Like, this is still happening. It's so sweet. You guys,

take pictures or like, dig up your old pictures from when we were there and please tag us in them because for all of the rough stuff, it was magical. It was. And that is a credit

to the people who were there. If we were dealing with people within our own little faction that were weird, the townspeople and the kids of Honeygrove made it magical. Yeah, truly. And we owe them.

So much excitement. They were so involved. They were so, like, just amazed and excited to watch and be a part of it and had great questions. And, man, we had such a ball meeting with all of you guys. Yeah, did anybody keep their outfit? Did anybody keep their proud outfit? No, I should have kept those gold boots, though. Damn.

Yeah. Yeah, you should have. You should have those boots. I know. You know what we should do, because now this exists, we should take a little screen grab of an episode. or of a frame of the episode and put them in that reverse search in Google and see if we can get them for you. Those boots? The Google boots?

Yeah. Oh, my gosh. 100%. Let's get them. All right. Great. I'd wear the hell out of those. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it did.

does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Wait, you guys, do we have any questions about this episode? Yeah, we got a fan question. Caroline wants to know when the closing scene of an episode follows into the next one, such as Lucas having his heart attack. Do you film those scenes on the same day, or do you wait until filming commences for the next episode? Well, ladies, you two are the directors. Teller.

Yeah, usually you have the other director for the next episode on set at the same time, so you film it at the same time, unless there's a break, unless it's like season to season, I think, then they're... Well, I was going to say, I've only seen that happen once. What? where we've had the director and we've been able to be like episode four wraps at lunch

and then episode five picks up usually you don't get that luxury because directors are coming from other shows they're prepping. The way we would pull that off by this point like season four or five on our show is that so often we would have recurring directors

so like if Greg Prange was directing and then our boss was directing they would coordinate that but if we had visiting directors which is what most shows do and, you know, what is more common. Oh, man, it would be so rough to like finish a cliffhanger and then eight days later have somebody new come in and like there's just somebody with a computer being like, this is the frame. You have to match this frame. I don't remember that. That's so funny. I've really just remember having a guest director come in and they would

like overlap the day if it was maybe if it's like a giant stunt is what I'm thinking. You know, like Haley getting hit by a car, that one was an overlap. Yes. So I remember having two directors there. Because that requires like a street closure and a stunt team and a driver. Right, right, right. But that's rare. You mean it was expensive.

Yeah. Like if it's just an actor having to match, they're like, it's an actor. Make them do it. They're like, oh, you did this three weeks ago. You need to cry exactly the same way to do it. But if they had to pull a permit, they're going to get both of those directors on set at the same time. And they would, they would always have, like, it was Paul or Greg. It was always one of our local people that just lived there anyway.

So it would be the second director. Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. Easy. Easy. Guys, should we spin a wheel? Let's spin a wheel.

Hey, honorable mention to Brooke showing us how to wrap a curl around a barrel in this episode. Thank you. Instead of clamping it in and rolling it because that's what everybody was doing at the time. And it was like, Sophia always. ahead of the curve she was like i'm gonna show you all what's what's up i'm like no no don't fry your ends babies don't do that's so good okay somebody read it what's our wheel now we just have an air wrap but we didn't have that then oh um is this for me who's the most likely to eat pizza for breakfast yeah i did in high school like every day is someone spying on me oh my god is that all of us

i mean i don't eat breakfast i drink coffee uh oh man so it's definitely not me It's you and I, though. Yeah. If it's around, I'm going to eat it. If it's in the fridge, I don't care what time it is. I think it's like a childhood trigger. Like, I love cold pizza for breakfast because I do it all the time when I was a kid. If my parents ordered pizza the night before, I'd wake up and just like cold pizza, man, as I walk onto the bus.

Yeah. And now, as an adult, I still love cold pizza, but if I'm in the mood to be fancy, I'm like, let me put the pizza in the air fryer and make an egg. And then I would put an egg on this pizza. What? Italian? So nice. Oh, that's so good. Yeah.

I've never experienced that. I will make you breakfast pizza. An egg on a pizza? You will like it. It's delicious. That's banana. Get ready. Like an over medium egg.

Well, now that Brooke and Peyton are roommates, you can make her egg pizza. Okay. Yeah, what's happening in the next episode? It's season four, episode 18? The runaway, oh, I bet they find Abby, and like everything's going to start hitting the fan. Okay. Can't wait. Yeah.

I love chaos. I'm so sad for us that we're going to soon have to find out what Dan did because everyone's going to sob and it's going to be depressing. Karen. I do, damn it. I will say we all know how hard it is sometimes to stand up when terrible things are happening around you. What has saved us, I think, is that we had each other. Find one other person and go to bat for them and let them go to bat for you.

because very often if somebody if the first person says something other people feel much more secure to get in line and add to that chorus and so that's true you know something that you all talk to us a lot about is loving our friendships and the way we show up for each other

and we have learned that in the best of times and in the literal worst of times like we talked about in this episode you know things that happened to many of us during filming of this show and even years later we have consistently brought a rally and cry, and that can really make all the difference. So if you can do that for somebody,

we highly recommend it. And we love you. All right, you guys, thanks for bearing with us on this really complicated episode. We love you, honeygrove. We love you all. Bye guys. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.