Drama Queens - Hot for Teacher with Kieren Hutchison (aka Andy) • EP208

Episode Date: January 24, 2022

Special Guest Kieren Hutchison — aka Professor Andy Hargrove — joins the Drama Queens to dig into the classroom turned date night dynamic between Andy and Karen. Kieren gets nostalgic, sharing his fond memories of arriving in Wilmington. And he digs out the crystal ball to tell Sophia and Hilarie where he sees Karen and Andy now. Did they predict the same future for the couple?As we all rewatch One Tree Hill together, have you ever wondered what is the perfect age to see it for the first time?! Let’s discuss! Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, dark girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Oh, hello, friends and One Tree Hill family.

This is an exciting episode for us today. We are on Season 2, Episode 8. Bitter Truth. Brooke Peyton Haley and Anna have a slumber party at Haley's apartment where secrets and lies are revealed, and there's a pillow fight. Meanwhile, Lucas and Nathan go on a road trip to a Bobcats game, and Nathan reveals he is actually being tested for the genetic defect that caused Dan's heart attack and asks Lucas to do the same.

same. After an awkward encounter with Keith and Jules, Karen and Andy share a spicy night together. And this episode, honestly, give me more. When she said, oh, professor, I almost passed out. But guys, this episode started in such a, like a deeply nostalgic place for me, because this is the opener where Brooke Davis drops the line about diaries, how good girls keep diaries and bad girls don't have time and oh man i i don't know what it is about that line but it really put me in all my feelings at the top of the episode it's true i mean like do we want evidence do we want that trail of red comes where people know what we've been up to no no you got to light that paper trail on fire listen i was literally with a girlfriend of mine this morning having coffee and she was

telling me about her grandmother her like scandalous grandmother and when her grandmother died she had a box of letters that she was that she ordered the grandchildren to burn and they sat there at the fire they're like do we read them do we read them bad girls bad girls burn the letters that's what happens um all right so we don't have joy with us this week we have a fabulous guest joining us in just a little bit a big treat but before we get into anything i want to address that this was such a big episode for haley because when the stars go blue you know it burst out onto the scene that has become kind of a a calling card for our show. The fans love it. I've seen Tyler sing it eight billion times. Yeah, it's such an iconic thing where Haley is finally like finding her groove with Chris Keller.

And I love watching their spice together. I love it. The chemistry between those two is so good. Hillary and I were screaming while we were watching the episode about how the chemistry between them in that booth gave us both goosebumps. We were like, oh my God, look at my arm.

Look at my arm. We both. Sometimes I think that we're like Haley Mills from the parent trap. You've got goosebumps too? Yes. George is in my lap right now. So if you hear iPad, that's what that is. She also loves Tree Hill girl time, which we had a lot of in this episode. Yeah. They look so good together and they sing so well together. And he puts Haley in a, you know, he kind of uses all this gross language or he's like, sing it from. somewhere deeper. Show me the thing you don't show anywhere else. And it sounds grody, but also he's making a point, you know? Like

you've been able to mail this in. You know, your tutor girl. Yeah, he really says to her, granted in creepy Chris Keller language, but he says to her that she has to dig deeper and get vulnerable. She needs to put her feelings out on the

line. She needs to reveal passion because you can hear it. And when it's missing, you're not into the song. And what I love about it is it's such a, it's such a part of this bigger metaphor that's going on with Haley. And Haley says, you know, in the sleepover, and Joy's so beautiful in the scene. She says, you know, I just want something that's just for me. It's not for my family. It's not for Nathan. It's for me. And Chris can help me get it. And when she says, you know, I just want to be able to go for it. And we're all sitting there going, oh, what, like a guy?

Yeah. And these girls get to admit that the double standard is hard for them, even as teenagers, seeing that guys are allowed to make mistakes and be into people and have feelings, whether they're anger or sexual or, you know, goals, whatever. Yeah. It's all fine. You know, she says, Nathan never has to make excuses for what he wants. And it's this beautiful moment where these girls each together,

you feel their determination to do things a little differently, but they also don't have a road map. They don't know how. But didn't you feel that way growing up? I mean, even while we were on the show, the boys, I felt like we're allowed to be lots of different things. And, you know, I just remember feeling like who's going to take me seriously, you know? When you're a teen drama actor, you can go on and do other stuff, right?

You're like James Vanderbinkin. You're getting cast and, you know, like cool stuff on your hiatus. But when you're a teen drama girl, you're kind of treated like, oh, you little idiot, you know? And I have always felt like, oh, how do I make you understand? How do I make you see that I'm smart and capable and that I'm driven? And that's what these four girls at the Sumber Party are talking about. And hell yes.

I mean, give me a break. All the dumb shit the boys did. And we can say that because we're a family. We love them. They never got criticized for any of it. No. They never got dragged over the coals. and they did shit that's way dumber than we did.

Yeah. I mean, well, no, I mean, I had a lot of fun in Wilmington. I did a lot of life. But that was the thing. I was so self-conscious about, like, going out and dancing until 2 a.m. Like, I thought for sure I was going to be just crucified for that. And I remember hearing people be like, oh, well, Katie Holmes during Dawson's Creek would dance on top of a bar. Good thing no one ever found out about that.

And in my head, I'm like, well, what's wrong with that? like just having a good time yeah the boys all did it too so yeah that double standard is definitely triggering for me and i we both were like who wrote this episode because it was clear that it was a woman she nailed it yeah uh stacey rickhizer who has gone on to work on shows that we really respect a lot i loved unreal um me too unreal was such a good show because it just stripped all the bullshit away from making television. Yeah, yeah, yeah, it was really brilliant. And it's interesting because we were, you know,

we've talked a little bit about narcissism and things on our show before. And there's a central tenet to like what happens when you're in a relationship with a narcissist, which is you aren't really looked at as a person. You're looked at as supply. A product. Yeah, you're just a tool. A product. And that's what it was like for us going.

through some of the things we went through on our show, nobody cared about our feelings or experiences or our mental health because we were a product. Easily replaceable product. That's what they love to tell us. And there was something about watching Unreal where they showed you, and you said this last week, you know, when you get to show it, not necessarily say it, they showed you the reality of treating people like products to make something. And it's gross.

And it doesn't have to be that way. You know, we've all gone on to work on things where we're having the opposite experience while we're making the things we love to make. And we all cry at the end of the day. We're like, it's been like this. It's so nice here. I really love it.

And so it's really cool to have watched that show. It made me feel like somebody got it. And to know that Stacey went to do that show. Having been on our show, I was like, ooh, I want to ask her so many questions. I can't wait to get her on this podcast. We have to get her on this podcast because she also did October Road with Greenberg. You know, she had an opening.

She was like, I'm going to go do this other thing with our beloved Jake Jigelsky. I'm going to go make magic over there. And by the way, just to big up her some more because we're so impressed with everything she's ever done, Stacey also created one of the biggest hit shows in the last like five years. Sex life is huge. Yeah. And, you know, she's making a show about a woman's desire and exposing how taboo we still think that is. It is.

And wow, I'm just, anyway, we're, we're, Stacey, if you're listening, we love you and we think you're badass. And that's all. Hey. But it was definitely clear in the slumber party from the fight, the iconic fight. Yes. You know, there's, I'm not proud of every single scene that Peyton's ever been a part. part of. You know, there's some real clunky stuff that I did over the years. And I think we all feel that way. But then there are certain scenes where you're like, oh, this was magic. This was lightning

in a bottle. And there's a reason that people like use this as gifts and they post this scene on the internet and fans talk about it at conventions. Because when all of us girls are calling each other out for our lives, that is such an important part of female friendship. It is something that I've lived personally, you know, and like we, you Joy and I have sat around and like had these talks where it's like, wait, you said what? What are you talking about? Yeah. Let's clear the air. But what about this? You did this. It makes total sense that a woman was like, boys, step aside. I'm going to handle this one. Well, and what I loved was getting to the end of it and you realize that there is a very human tendency to keep secrets about things that you haven't figured out or that you feel

shame about, but the central tenet of the slumber party is you, as Peyton saying, I want us to be better friends. I want us. It's like, I want us people to talk about stuff even when it's ugly, especially when it's ugly. I think that's something like that, or when it's hard. Yeah. And that's the notion is that we should be better friends. Let's be the kinds of friends who really talk about everything and who can be a safe space to talk about everything together. And I just really loved that. The slumber party is a sacred space. In American culture, that is, it's like going to church.

You go to your slumber party, you make your confessions, you may be like, take some sacrament. What is it? Sacramento wine? A sacramental face mask? Yeah. Wait, so when you were going to the all girls high school, did you guys have summer parties or were you so sick of each other by the end of the day? Totally. Yeah?

Oh, my God. We slept over at each other's houses all the time. It was so fun. And I think it was, you know, part of how you learned to be a little independent. Yeah. Because, you know, you weren't staying at home, but you were, like, staying at a house where your best friend's parents were. You hope, maybe. Yeah.

You know. Yeah, of course. It's like finding your independence and just wanting to be with your friends all the time. Yeah. Not just at school. These are the people I picked. Yeah. These are my people.

We're forming our little village. what was it like in Parkview? Well, we started making movies. That was like, you know, I kind of made all my friends do what I wanted to do. So I wanted to make movies. And so all my girlfriends were like, okay. And so we would make all these like terrible movies, like The Virgin's Revenge. We definitely made one called The Virgin's Revenge that someone still has on VHS somewhere

about all the sluts named Crystal who were murdered. You know, it's like when Scream came. out. And it was Crystal with a C and Crystal with a K. And they were really mean. And this virgin at school that they picked on murdered them. So, like, we had so much fun making stuff because you have fun doing it. And then you have fun watching it. And then it becomes an inside joke. And here we are, you know, what, 25 years later. And my girlfriends and I are still joking about the Virgin's revenge and threatening to play it at each other's weddings and things. Amazing. Yeah. It's a good time.

And I, I don't know, I worry sometimes that the things that we showed on Winery Hill weren't accurate, but I feel like this episode, these female conversations were incredibly accurate. I liked it. Yeah. And the way that, you know, the way that Stacey wrote it, they got to call each other out. But it was more, it felt more like a calling in. It wasn't bitchy. No. What was under it, at least as a viewer now, was why didn't you tell me about this? Why did you do that? And are you okay? Yeah. You know, when when Peyton having done drugs with Rick is revealed, it's like, you're not going to do that again. Are you? Like, are you okay? And I love what Peyton says to Brooke when she's trying to act like she's in control of this whole situation with Felix. And you realize that Brooke is still so hurt. from that betrayal with Lucas that it broke her idea of falling in love and that she's trying to figure out how to control a relationship and and you say the sweetest thing you say this is less than

you oh it is though it really is and it i don't know i just i loved it because you realize that you know brooks kind of puffing her chest up and pretending to be somebody she really isn't well you know there was the whole we've talked at length about them trying to sexy up our show every time they get a chance and then i feel like when we get our female writers in it's like they reel it back in you know it's like they come and they put the band-aid on it and they're like okay you've shown her naked in the pool and you've shown her like sprawled out on this or that now we're going to provide the subtext and you know it's like make it make sense.

So I like that pendulum swing. I do too. And one of the things I realize now as an adult, looking at these characters and especially Brooke and Peyton as best friends who didn't have healthy relationships modeled for them is beginning to see where on our show we're getting to model healthy relationships.

And that I think is where the stellar Karen and Andy's storyline comes in they are having like a really intellectual and romantic courtship they're connecting over art and travel and and i don't know i i love their energy so much and i love that when they have uh you know a hurdle it's it's over ethics yes it's because there's a misdirect Karen thinks that he didn't read her paper and he gave her an A because they're dating and then he does this beautiful you know he kind of shakes her emotionally and says like stop it you're so much more prepared for this than you think you are you've owned a business and been a single mom you're good at this have more faith in yourself killed me we definitely wrote that one down being a mom and a

business woman has prepared you in ways you don't recognize oh i love him should we should we bring boyfriend in i think it's time guys our boyfriends here today. Friends, we've got the one and only Andy with us. Kieran Hutchinson. Bring him in! It may look different, but native culture

is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the

first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hello. Hi, bud.

Hi, Kieran. Hi. Where are you guys? Well, Sof's at the ranch. At the ranch? Yeah. She's in California and I'm in New York. I'm at the farm.

We all turned into agricultural people. How the hell did that happen? That's so cool. Yeah, are you farming? What are you doing, my friend? No, no farming, just suburban life. Perfect. Listen, the suburbs are wild.

I'm intimidated by the suburbs. The last time I saw you, I feel like, was Tyler Hilton's wedding. I was just thinking that. Yeah, it would have been Tyler Hilton's. And Sophia, I feel like we have a mutual friend, right? Fleur. yes we saw it a birthday party they told about the same time like five years ago or something yes yes yes back when people could like go out and wander around and congregate hug that sounds nice

now we're just doing a podcast um i don't know if you have heard any of our episodes but we sure gush about you do we sure do um Andy was a sensation uh walk us through walk us through how you became Andy. Andy, yeah. It's so fun watching the episode last night, too, by the way. I haven't seen any of this for, you know, it's been so long. It's a time cap. Isn't it wild? Yeah, it would a great idea doing this, too. You guys must be having a great time, just seeing it all again. It's a fun, it's so fun. Yeah, it's fun. Okay, so how did I do? I, I, well, auditioned. I remember it was quite a few auditions. It felt like three, four, you know, producers, pre-reads, all that stuff, back when you used to go into rooms to audition as well, you know, back in the old.

things. Yeah. On tape. Yeah. And the weird thing, you know, it was American accent all the way true. You know, he was just, you know, the professor. That was the thing. And on the last day, I remember when I went in, it was just with Mark. And there was only one other guy who went in before me. Uh-huh. That's one of those weird things where he came out looking, you know, that look you give when you know you didn't do it. So he worked out like. Oh, no. And I was like, I've never, I don't know who this guy is, but I was, oh, okay, well, I guess I should do well then, I try to. Good.

And then I went in and Mark was like, oh, so I found out overnight that you're not from America and that you're from New Zealand. I would have mind hearing it in that accent, just, you know, just something different. Uh-huh. Which I don't love doing, because, you know, when you learn it one way, you kind of have to switch quickly. Is that, does it feel like a big switch? Yeah, well, for me, I'm a bit better these days, but back then it used to be a bit more

anxiety-driven because I would learn it, you know, by the lines rather than just switching into the accents. So, yeah, I'd end up with this weird hybrids sometimes, mid-Pacific, you know. Where you sound like Madonna after she moved to London? No, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Not in either place, you know. But to be honest, it did. It did relax things. And he, I remember him saying, you know, some of the lines made more sense because he was so he'd been traveling and he was talking about different cultures and stuff. And he was like, I actually think that kind of works. And I think that might have been the thing that put it over the top, which was nice.

Wow. And there's always the New Zealand connection with One Tree Hill anyway, because that's a monument in Auckland where I grew up. Yeah. Yeah. And then became the U2 song, which I think is where, you know. Our show title came from, yeah. Yeah. That's so cool. Did you grow up acting?

Yeah. Well, I mean, since I left high school professionally, but yeah, I was always, since I was a kid, you know, in school plays and all that stuff. What was Little Landy doing? We loved the Little Lucas. Where's that? Little Lucas. That tiny trick t-shirt, we did a spit take. It was so sweet.

And Moira's face when you do it, just, she starts to talk and then just swallows her own breath and looks at the floor. It's so delicious watching. It was very nice, subtle work right there. I remember trying not to laugh at the take when she did that. Were you doing musical theater? as a kid. Did your whole family act? What's this? No, not an acting family at all. My dad was in, uh, it was an ambulance chief actually. Oh, wow. And, um, we didn't come from a, um, an acting family. I just get bit by the bug, I guess when I was, you know, all those 80s movies just got

me. Yeah. Wait. Back to the, you know, I'm like, I'm a sucker for it. I'm in, you know. And, uh, and then the thing, I couldn't ever sing. So I was not musical theater. I, I, um, I talk, Talk sung my way through the dentist. Oh, and Little Shop of Horst. Oh, cute. I bet you were a great dentist. It was pretty fun because I'm an Elvis fan too. So I always did my Elvis family.

And you didn't really have to sing there. So that's as close as I got. But the weird thing about New Zealand then is there was really, definitely for television and film, there wasn't much of an industry. You know, it was different now. Because the scene there is huge. My husband and I talk about movies in New Zealand all the time. Sophia, have you been? Same. I am like ready to pack my bags and just go. Yeah. Yeah. It's so beautiful. It's a great

place to go for the Apocalypse. Yes. Were you there during the apocalypse? Did you get to escape? Escape from L.A.? No. No. It actually was really difficult to get home. We thought about it. We thought about it. To be honest, if the election had got the other way, we might have. But same. You're like, oh, it's time to go now. Yeah. We've kicked the can down the road, so we'll stick around with them on there. But, no, so I haven't actually been back for a little while, but it was funny because, you know, growing up in the 80s, it was always always the Cold War, right? The bombs are going to. Yeah. And we were like the one country.

I remember when I was like, it's just kind of terrible, but you're eight years old and you're going, all right, New Zealand's actually going to be okay. We're fine. It's still true, strangely. Well, when we were there, we were there a few years ago, and I remember walking through the city and not feeling like there was any danger anywhere. And I'm someone who moved to New York and September 11th happened, you know? Right. And so my body is just trained to be in chaos

whenever there's a crowd. And New Zealand was the first time I ever felt all the weight come off. Everyone there is so nice and engaging and lovely. And so, of course, we find magical Andy from New Zealand. Well, I love hearing all that lovely stuff about my home. That makes me feel good. It's a lovely place.

Yeah. It was so fun. we were talking about, I guess it would have been two episodes ago where Andy takes Karen to his home, which we were laughing. We were like, oh, my God, it's airily gardens. Like, it's literally a botanical garden. It's perfect. But when you're walking with her under that sort of stone pergola, it's so lovely to hear you telling her about home, about One Tree Hill in Auckland. That's right. Yeah, it's in the dialogue, right. Yeah, it's in the dialogue and you talk about it and how, how it's, your, you know, your favorite person on earth is you were single mom who saw Tree Hill on the map and decided it would be a good place to transplant too. And I remember we were all discussing just

how honest the scene felt and how there was subtext, but also exposition that felt right and how you saw what Andy was drawn to in Karen and you saw that she for the first time, having gotten the travel bug going to Italy, felt like someone understood her. in a larger context than who she is in this small town. We are real big fans of this relationship, is the point. It's really, really well done. You guys, you just made something so beautiful. What was it?

Did it feel like a big deal when you were doing it? Did it feel, you know, really honest and alive? Or was it like, I don't know what I'm doing here in North Carolina? Like, what was your experience when you got there? you know and joined our circus right um no it was it did feel um it did feel uh like something special it wasn't this is this is one of the you know the jobs you have this this was a really nice job and um the interesting thing for me is obviously i would come in and out you know i'm you know it's commuting you know i'd go back home um when i wasn't needed and where was home was

at l a point it was l a point yeah i i um i'd sort of put down roots i got married a year before. Like the idea was sort of to come and go and, you know, to, I would have come back and forth from New Zealand when I was trying to get work here, but I met Nicole and was like, okay, so this is home. So I was here. Yeah, still is. Yeah, we still say, aw. And life happens to you. And then, but then going out to North Carolina, so yeah, I would come on in and I would see you guys socially, because I didn't have a lot of scenes with a lot of other characters, which was interesting. And it sort of gets siloed off. But then I was signed it off with Mora, and that was incredible.

So I did feel, I felt like I was learning a lot from her. I knew her work a lot through the 90s just as a movie fan. Yeah. And my wife was a big fan of the cutting edge. Topic. Yeah, yeah, exactly. We still say it, dude. Still.

Topic. So when Nicole came out and visited, we went over to dinner with Morin her husband, and she fanned girled out, so that was fun. That is fun. Just in general, the more thing made me realize that, no, this is a really good opportunity for me to grow and to meet her where she's at and to trying to create something out of it. Because I liked it, too. I thought all the storylines were really sweet with those two. So, yeah, no, it was great.

Well, there was such a love affair that the fans had for the whole, like, Keith, Karen backstory. Did you feel pressure coming in to, you know, be a good? good guy, like someone who could fill those shoes? No, and the reason is I hadn't really been watching. I knew, I was piecing that's together almost the same way that Andy was, which I kind of like. Which we see in this episode when they show up at the same restaurant, and Andy's like, what's the problem here?

He's the only one who doesn't know just like in a tennis match looking back and forth. You guys are all acting weird. There wasn't a lot of acting going on there. It was so good. But I was, no, and obviously I understood in the larger, I understood the larger jaw of being the third wheel who was destined to lose at some point, which you understand that. And I think that actually takes the pressure off.

It's more like, well, this is what's happening here with these people. And I understand that the fans are going to have a different relationship because of the key thing. It does give you that, it gives you pause of like, you know, how do you hook into, you know, putting this across and where people are going to enjoy, whether they're just going to hate you, you know. Because sometimes you, I've had other things

when you're in the third wheel, or I've been that other jobs where I've been to Keith. And it's tough for that other person sometimes, you know, depending on how it's done, you know. So I just sort of leapt in and I went, oh, well, we'll see. I'm going to kiss her. I'm going to kiss the hell out of her. It's going to be so cute.

I was doing it. So if the last episode was in Trick, and we could not figure out what the age difference was between, Karen and Andy, because they make such a big deal out of it. Do you remember what it was supposed to be? I, no, I don't know specifically, but I think I was, I think I was playing slightly younger than myself.

I mean, I was 30. I turned 30 when I, when I did the job. Oh my God, you were a baby. I was, was pretty young. So you guys, holy crap. It's amazing, right? We survived. And I was, I think I was,

supposed to be playing a few years younger, like mid-twinnies or something. So maybe it's 10 years, roughly, I don't know. Okay. But they did lean into that, right? They were, like, very much like, this is crazy. Oh, this would never happen. Never happened. Be gad.

I remember in that scene, too. I think it was when we met in that scene, right? Well, yeah, because Peyton's all like, oh, hello, introduce me to your friend. I get that I'm a junior in high school, but. I know. And that's when I went, oh, these girls are actually a lot. That's okay. That's it.

It was hard to separate fact from fiction because we're all like going out to bars and restaurants with each other after work. I was meeting you as you guys. I'm like, oh, no. Yeah. Okay. No, they're juveniles.

Very illegal, friend. They're babies. Sweet little babies. Yeah, the Andy trajectory is so kind of like dream dude. You know, he's got that Jake Ryan from 16 candles. energy. Was that your inspiration? Is that what you drew from the 80s movie?

Yeah, it's a good reference. I remember them saying that they were trying to, and it's interesting. I remember, was it Jenny Garofalo said once about George Clooney and ER? She was like, so he's a pediatrician with an alcohol problem and he loves kids. I'm not made of wood when it comes to the writing, you know what I mean? It's like, you go. I'm not made it worth. And I feel like some of Andy's writing was like that.

It's like he's going to have lots of money, but that doesn't matter to him. And they did all these hooks where it's like, I think what they were saying is he's undeniable. And that's what it happened with it, whoever played him on, you know, when it comes to the writing. Yeah.

And so I understood what they were doing there. And then my job was kind of like, okay, but don't, you don't want to play, you don't want to play that. Well, how do we make him not loathe some? All that money, time? Yes. Was that so weird?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, there was some lines where I'm, okay, okay, all right. All right. And I get where they're going, but boy, that's in my field. It's interesting. We talked about that a lot when there's those lovely scenes with you and Moyer down on the Riverwalk, like right off of Market Street, you know?

The hot dog date. The hot dog date. Oh, my God. We love the hot dog stage, by the way. In this episode, you say you're past it, and we were like, but maybe just one more hot talk. but I loved and we talked about this on a previous episode how well you threw away that stuff you were like yeah I did this thing and it was all this money

and I wasn't that fulfilled and now I'm a teacher and it was so lovely and we all remarked that in someone else's hands that that could have made the audience want to punch Andy in the face but you did it in a way that was so freaking sweet. We were like, oh, we love him. We love this rich teacher.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for, like, kind of years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance

of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. You've stayed friends with a lot of the dudes from the cast. Like I said, it was fun to party with you at Tyler's wedding. That was a hoot.

Who did you pile around with when you were there? And where'd you guys go? What trouble did you get into in Wilmington? Well, again, like, you know, I didn't, you know, there was a lot of work in relationships with most people because there wasn't in scenes with them, but I was in scenes with Mora. But Mora had her family and stuff.

We definitely socialized a couple of times, but, you know, not so much. And then I was, you know, Chad's dad, Chad's stepdad, and we had a weird way, which we got a laugh out of a few times. Yeah. So I ended up seeing a bit of him. And, I mean, and then when Tyler came on it, he was, he was great.

He was under 21 as well, I think. He was a baby. Yeah, you guys came on at the same time. Yeah, roughly, yeah, yeah. And it's like the good angel and the bad angel on the shoulders. He's so fun. I love seeing how he is on the show compared to how he is in real life, you don't know? And it's like, no, he's not like that.

It's so funny. He, he, especially, we were just weeping, laughing about, Chris Keller talking about himself in the third person. Tyler would never. And to see Tyler play this insufferable man is so amusing. Yeah, I think that's hilarious too. He was so good at it. And even that one that I watched for this, episode eight, you know, when he's in the recording booth with joy, so beautiful. I mean, all the singing stuff and everything, I thought it was really well done. So there was this whole other show that I became a fan of watching that I wasn't really part of. So that was an interesting thing too, you know, as the years sort of go by.

That's a fun thing about ensemble work. Is that like, the world doesn't revolve around you and you get to kind of enjoy the thing that you're working on because you're not being self-critical. You just be like, oh, yeah, that was nice. I'm a fan of this. Where do you think Karen and Andy are in 2022? Oh, 2020. Oh, 22. I mean, they're adorable. I mean, they're dull. be growing now, right? She was... Oh, yeah. The last time I went in.

She was like five. Yeah, I feel like season five. She was about that age. Yeah, she's out of the house. They're empty nest. Hey, congrats, bud. You did it. Well done.

Well done. Hopefully, I don't know, maybe there's still on that boat somewhere. I like that idea. Oh, that's right. Escaping the pandemic on their yacht. He set up like, he set up like yacht farms. Everybody's doing like, you know, like fruit and vegetable farms on the their yachts so they can feed the needy.

Yeah, yeah. Save the world. I like it. Have you been able to see anybody in the last couple years? We've all been in lockdown. Have you seen anybody from the cast? No, no, it has been. Well, actually, the last you know, the last time I saw you guys was when I was seeing people, I mean, Tyler, a little bit, but he's

been out of the country. He's in Canada. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So, no, I've kind of lost touch to a certain extent, you know? Karen, have you been to a convention? I went to one. But that was around about the same time I saw you. I saw you're one. One time.

Oh, my God. I only haven't done one. There was the one that went back to women to. Oh, you got to come party with us. Well, because Moira just did her first one. And we were all like, what? Oh, my God. God, I haven't seen more a decade.

She hasn't aged a day. It's just unfathomable. I listened to the episode you guys did with it. It was great. This is what's nice, too, is you get to catch up with people, Mike. They pay us? For this, this is ridiculous. Yeah, she is amazing, you know, took like a big hiatus to raise her kids, which, you know, we all do and is coming out of it with like this big massive project.

We're going to have to drag her back to Wilmington is what's going to happen. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, maybe I'll come when she comes. Yeah. I mean, that's in, do we have that recorded? That's like, like, I will 100% buy a photo in the Karen and Andy. photo op. Oh, yeah.

Like, I'm, I'm going to be in the line with the fans ready to go. You want to be Lily? You're the baby? That's the, oh, my God, can I? That's the reunion that I want so bad. That's going to be my answer, actually, from now on. Whenever anyone says, if you ever played a different character on Montreal, who would it be, I'd be like, Lily.

Lily's on the boat. It'd be great costume. I tell you'd be great costume. I want to be the child on the yacht. Well, she gets to stay rich on, like, Brooke, you know. Lily. Hey. Yeah, Brooke had to go make.

all our own money back my god damn it um kieran what are you working on now man what's going on yeah yeah so i mean i've been i've been the dad my son is uh it's 14 now weren't you guys doing a youtube series together we did yeah and so we had we had a father-son project which that's been the fun thing in the last few years i've been doing more content creation cool so we had this thing called a kid explains history which uh was a youtube channel and he started when he was like eight like a little cute, you know, squeaky voice kid. And now his voice was voices dropped. And I don't know if he's a kid explaining history anymore.

But we did, yeah, teens, exactly. And it was a fun thing because he was showing interest in it. And I kind of like the idea of, you notice, like, a lot of people our age don't know much about history and all the politics that's going on right now. And people are like, people keep saying things like, oh, this is unprecedented. And I'm like, not much is unprecedented if you read a bit. Yeah, everything's secular. Yeah, we're actually repeating ourselves all the time because there'd be no history. So with Quinn showing interest in it, it was a cool little project.

He's saying it in his own words to other kids to try to get this next generation to actually thinking about it a bit more. And it really kind of took off and it's been licensed to like Sancical as the Common Sense Media app. So these places around it really went a bit bigger than we thought. So that was fun. That's so cool. That's so Andy of you.

Are you a history buff yourself? Yeah, I was always always into history. yeah yeah so it satisfies my because obviously i had to write a lot of them in the beginning he sort took over as he got a bit older but um i was uh he was he was more of the host at the beginning but but now he's he's an a student for history so you know it worked it's like a sneaky little sneaky little fun project that uh ultimately was aiming for that so super wait are you saying that's what i need to do with my kids because right now my son's just like mom please let me have a youtube channel and i'm like it seems like a bad idea well there was and he was like eight and he said

He wanted to do, you know, what they all want to do. They want to do something on the game. Yeah. And it was Minecraft. Minecraft is the thing is, I want to do Minecraft. I'm like, well, I don't know anything about it. I'm not that interested in it. But history, it's true.

And then he was off. So, yeah, that was kind of fun. Gus just, when he was little, he would just build like the Titanic. He would take like history and build it in Minecraft to capture my attention. He'd be like, Mom, I just built the Hamilton duel in Minecraft. Oh, baby. They would get so good at it, too. I mean, it's amazing.

How old is you now? Like 10? Gus is turning 12. 12. And he's my height. It's like ridiculous. It's weird having tween kids, man. In my head, we're still young and like going to Deluxe in Wilmington and like, there's no way we have kids as old.

That's crazy. Yeah, guys, you have like small adults. Yeah. Yes. Yes. It's a trip. Well, it's interesting, too, because you remember being that age. like yeah vividly you know you're you're very uh uh cognizant of what it was like to be at 14

or 12 year old you know whereas when they're a bit younger you're like oh the kids you know the babies and stuff but would you let your kids watch this show oh yeah i would if he was interested oh my god the we're going to fast forward through the part where sophia screamed oh professor we tried to me and the cult both try to you know put on our stuff or whatever and he's like oh that's interesting you know he's like yeah okay does he doing the youtube channel do you feel like because he's been interested in history that it's a way to teach him about storytelling and direction and production and all the things that you know has that kind of been the way to connect on on the working level yeah absolutely

and and that was what's been fun i think is technology caught up right you know these phones and doing green screen stuff and all these things that I might have wanted to do 10, 15 years ago. For Quinn, it's second nature all this stuff because he's known since he's got an iPad and, you know,

so I do feel like we bonded over that and being able to, like the early ones are a bit scratchy and then you get a bit better technically and everything. And then you've got this outlet of YouTube or websites we can put it out there. So yeah, it's been great just from that point of view. And he really talked to it.

He was, you know, like a, proud dad, he's like a naturally, put the camera on his cheek. Oh, I love it. He's doing great now. Does Nicole get involved on that stuff too? I know you mentioned that when you met her, you know, shortly before, when you guys got married anyway, shortly before you came to join us, you were like, oh, this is, this is home. I'm staying wherever she is, this is my place.

Yeah, yeah. You know, gosh, you guys got married in 2003. It's almost 20 years. That's crazy. We just celebrated out 19 from meeting because we were, you know, We knew each other for, like, a year before we got married. Good for you. That's a long time.

And she was on a teen drama. She was on wildfire, which was an ABC family thing before freeform. Yes. So, like, did she have advice for you for One Tree Hill? Does she, like, does she try to get in on the YouTube channel stuff with direction? Those happened at the same time. And funny story, actually, I was just talking about it the other day. part of the

one tree hill thing was she tested on Montreal a month before I did before I ever For Julie? For what? She tested for Anna For Danielle's Get out of town

I could have kissed your wife I think it got down to just those two Cool Oh wow So the interesting Part of the reason that the show was on my radar is I'm like okay It was the napatized

It was a hit show And then Nicole nearly got on it We're like oh wow this is cool And we started watching And like they said something about her looking too young or something. It was, I don't know, something weird. And then, like, two weeks later, I'm auditioning for Andy.

So it was kind of, there's the universe out there where we were both on, one tree hill, which would have been fun. Listen, those good old WB days were so excessive. My husband tested or auditioned for the show. And for Keith's part.

But it would be perfect. But that's it. Well, it would have been different. A different trajectory. That's the thing. It was so the WB just owned this kind of content during that era. And so now all of our peers are like, what were your WB days? You know, like we all have that chapter. Yeah. And I done, it's an episode of Charmed or something like just before that. Yeah, you start, you start getting on their radar and everything. Who'd you kiss on Charmed? I did it. I had a blind date with Alyssa. Uh-huh. Elizabeth Alano and she was the character, it was blind date and she was supposed to find out whether or not we're meant to be together.

And she touches my hand, finds out we're not, and wants nothing to do it. Wow. If only. Imagine the pain we all could have been saved in our 20s. Right? If you could touch and know. It's a good skill to have, right? It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia. Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner

in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, we get a fan question. on this show that we want you to participate in. You feel like inquiring minds want to know. What's our question, Sov? Oh, okay, from Danny. In your opinion, oh, this kind of relates to your son. Your opinion, what is the perfect age to start watching One Tree Hill and why?

Whoa. Well, I actually think he is at a pretty good age, 13, 14. I mean, you know, because you're getting into that, the friendship groups in high school and, starting to, and I always think it's kind of fun when it's a little bit aspirational, like they're a little bit younger and they're looking up with these kids.

Like when 902 and O came out for me, you know, some of those shows. Was that your show? That was my show. That was what reminded me. When I got on this, I was like, this is me being on 19210.

Did you know Paul from 902 and O? Wasn't Paul the bad guy on that show? Yes. Yeah, that was the fun thing. I remember Paul from that. And I remember Craig, obviously, through his movies. Oh, yeah.

I really enjoy talking about it. It's funny because we're in this, rivalry, but we ended up sharing a few scenes together. And on set, we would actually talk a lot about his old days. I was fascinated. Just tell me some Redford stories, man. Tell me what's going and he obliged. It was great. Did he tell you his Warhol stories? Which one? Andy Warhol stories? How he was discovered? Oh, my God. We're going to get a round of drinks and tell some... Yes. Oh, we need it. Kieran, we're working on getting Hillary to the West Coast for a little hang soon. So we'll just... Well, yeah, we just...

talk to Maria Manunos and we're like, yo girl, you're trying to party? We're going to get the band back together. Count me in. I think that watching our show with your parent is a good tool. There was actually a writer in

Wilmington, Celia Rivenbark, who wrote a couple books. And she talked about watching One Tree Hill with her daughter because it was a natural door opener to have conversations about sex and drugs and drinking and all that stuff. But if you're a kid that's just watching it by yourself, I think being a little bit older, like, you know, 17, 18 is probably a better place. One of the things is happening with Nicole, too, with Quinn, like, they bond over watching a lot of the new Netflix shows that are probably in that same subject matter.

And so that's what Nicole's been doing with Quinn a lot. Yeah, one of the things that was always so cool to me was when, and even now it happens, we just had a set photographer. who told me the version of this story. But when we would meet parents who would say that, who would say, this show has given me a window into having conversations with my kid that I didn't know how to have or start. And kids would say, you know, it was really interesting.

I was always so embarrassed. My parents would make me watch the show with them. But then they opened up to me and told me all this stuff about things they went through that I never knew about. That always felt like a really special, thing to be a conduit like that for for viewers and you can see especially with this show it has been happening a lot like I don't know how it is for you guys but you know because I wasn't in it as much

there'll be like years and years we don't hear about it and then and then these progressively younger people will come up to you in the stream oh my god yeah oh the crap you know what I mean and I'm like how old are you but this rediscovering it on streaming or whatever has as has constantly surprised me It's really lovely. It's not the same people. It is. It's the children of the people who are watching it at first time, you know?

It's pretty special. It's nuts, man. Going to the supermarket here, I look like a homeless lady all the time. And I feel like I need to apologize to these kids because they're just like, what happened to you? Listen, there's a Dunkin' Donuts down there.

Your beard looks fantastic. Your beard looks fantastic. I love it. How long have this beard been on? on your face. Oh, it comes and goes. Yeah. Is it a COVID beard?

No, it comes and goes. I haven't for a couple weeks, shame it off. Yeah. That was a funny thing. It was how short my hair was in those early. Yeah, your buzz cut. You and Chad had the same haircut. Yeah.

Yeah. And that was that 2004 thing. I feel like Brad Pitt did it for like Mr. Mrs. Smith. Yeah, yeah. And every dude did it for like that. Yeah, you sure did. We remember.

You got a buzz out here. I like it. I like it. All right. So we've kind of touched this question a little bit. Brenna said you've talked a lot of about a lot of other teen dramas that were popular when you started filming One Tree Hill.

Did you ever have conversations with other teen show stars during that time about your experience? Well, I mean, you did charm. Did you jump around to any other of these kind of like super moody TV shows, Karen? Yeah, that's a good question, actually. No, I did it. I ended up moving on to, it was kind of like lifetime

and Holmark and- Yeah, I love those jobs. Episodesonic television, yeah, exactly. You've been doing some good ones too, huh? It's, I mean, but I mean, I ran into some people, you know, like at parties and stuff. That's it. You go to parties and you both commiserate. Yeah, yeah. It'd be like the O.C. guys, you know, it would be like at a birdie or all these guys. I'm like, I get more chat, but not really about work.

Yeah. I don't think I had that experience, no. Back when we were kids, I remember because Josh Jackson still had his place in Wilmington for a bit after Dawson's wrapped. Right. Right. And I remember, like, being out at Ritesville and having a beer with him and him just being like, it's going to be great. It's also going to get really weird. This place is small. There's nowhere to go, and everybody's going to date everybody, and just be nice to each other.

And I was like, what? Like, I just thought it was so funny. And now I see Josh. There's a wisdom right there. No, truly. He was just like, there's nowhere to go. You're in a petri dish together. Get ready.

And then, you know, now I see Josh, and we're on, like, all these amazing, you know, whisper networks of activists working on social justice issues. And we just laugh. We're like, remember when we were just two dumb kids in Wilmington? And we were all so messy. Yeah. And there was a strange sort of vague overlap for you guys. I think it was over by talking about that.

Same places. Same houses. Literally the same exact crew. They just rolled. They took their summer break and they're like, we got a new pack of kids. What are you going to do? Here we go. Yeah.

That happens. That happens when the Cole show ended. There was an Albuquerque in New Mexico. And that crew went on the Breaking Bad, which is like such a strange. That's a different. From a show about teenage girls and horses to breaking bad. Always makes his laugh. You know what?

If you can find the parallel, there's a whole new TV show. I'm sure there's a through line there somewhere. Teen girls who delivered drugs on horseback. Shut up. We got it. Tuesdays on the CW. I'm watching. Perfect.

Oh, my God. Yeah, I'd watch that. You heard it here first, guys. You want to spin a wheel? Karen, we do this thing where we do most likely to. It's like senior superlatives. From the yearbook. From the yearbook.

Did you guys have yearbooks in New Zealand? Yes, we did. All right. Did you have superlatives? I actually just saw them recently. Oh. Yes, yes. So we're going to let you go first.

You can pick a real live castmate or a character from the show. Who do you think is most likely to survive on a desert island. Oh, come on. Whitey, right? That guy would just whip that into shape. Yeah. Yeah. You're right. It's like that show alone. He'd have like a fort mill. Yeah. It'd be like chopping on a cigar and he'd be chopping down stuff. He'd be like cutting up a random plant for dinner and going, God damn it. Why is this so tough? Where's the seasoning? It's like castaway Tom Hanks, but Whitey instead. Yeah. I would watch that show. You know, I actually met him in New Zealand before I came out here.

Yeah. You met Barry? Yeah, he came down. What? He came down in the year 2000 to do one of our, you know, movies where Kelly McGillis was the lead. And it was one of those like horror movies, you know? And they came down and they tried to make Auckland look like America. Texas.

It's like, yeah, kind of. And I was like, I was a backpacker in the movie or something. And he was the sheriff. Of course. And we took him out. Me and my buddies, we took him out to like a cigar bar and everything. Because he was like there alone. He just wanted to have a look around.

So we had some nights on the town with Barry. And then like four years later. Yeah. There he is. I'm like, how funny is that? Yeah. Hanging out of Charlie Browns. Did you go to that bar Charlie Browns with Barry?

I think I went to all those bars. Yeah. He used to have his mail delivered there to the bar. Yes. I do. I do remember. He was great. He was so great.

Another one with the stories, you know, another, I would just sit in there at the knee, you're going, tell me more. Of course. Okay, so if Whitey's going to survive, which cast member, real life person do we think will survive on a deserted island? A real life, okay. Yeah, like a friend of ours. I mean, I'd love to see what Paul does. I don't know, I don't know if he would survive, but I'd love to see what happens. cool yeah yeah

i don't know if he makes it but i want to watch it the truman show we'll just put cameras in the palm trees yeah i'm here for it i think he'd find an angle i think he would he would find an angle yeah okay you know what with his luck yes paul like robert downy junior in his iron man outfit would like swoop down because they're best friends pick him up Nick Cassavetes would have filmed the whole thing.

It would be amazing. And they'd win an Oscar. There you go. There you go. Done. Oh, Karen, it's so good seeing you. It's so good. This is fun.

Thanks for inviting me on. Yeah. Thank you for coming. We're going to have our big party out west. I can't wait. I'm itching to get out. Yeah. Yeah.

Let's get crazy. And in the meantime, we're going to be watching your kid, teach us all about history. Thank you for putting that into the universe. So we can all be smarter. we got we got that out there and uh and uh we just you know Nicole and I've been working on scripts too we've been writing to really so hopefully hopefully this and stuff come out oh and that's what it did in the pandemic I wrote a book what what way way to bring me the lead friend I know here I am here I'm at the end going oh by the way oh by the way it's uh it's really fun

because you know when you're writing the script is interesting and you sort of trying to you know you get your agent and you're pitching it out there and stuff and that's fine but it's all collaborative for the book. He said, you know, you make it what you want it to be, you know. Wait, is the book about history? What is it about? No, it's actually, it's a science fiction book because we had this, Nicole and I came up with this idea for a TV show. And you know how it's all existing IP now. So we're like, we're like, we try to get it out there as a book first and see if we can build an audience. But it's filled with all the stuff that we love, all the genre stuff, you know. When can we read it? Yeah, when do we do it? Well, it's out of publishers right now.

So it's being, it's, and this is what, it was during the pandemic last year where I went, I've got all this time in my hands and, you know, what the hell are we doing? You're the one person that got things done? I did. On that, on that, on that, on that guy people hate, we're like, I did. I got in shape. I wrote a book. I have so many goals for the pandemic and I did not a one. Yeah.

Well, I grew a beard and I wrote a book. Oh, my God. Listen, when you're ready for us to blurb about it. We're blurbers. Yeah. Oh, there we go. Perfect. So, you know, it's at that stage right now where we're getting it out there and we'll stay tuned.

But, yeah, exciting stuff. There's all this fun stuff of like, what's the next thing that's the next thing to be that we do rather than, you know, just auditioning for things all the time. Yeah. The hustle is strong, my friend. Oh, yeah. All that stuff. Next week, we have season two, episode nine. The trick is to keep breathing.

I don't know what comes next for Andy, but I feel like. It's probably something flirty. I think so. You just had your first official romp with Karen. I'm excited to see where it goes. That was cute. That little wake-up in the morning scene was real. It was real cute.

I wanted to show her my painting, right? No, she wanted to show me, her painting. She wanted to show you the print. You're the one with the painting. Yeah, yeah. That was one of those lines. It's in the bedroom. It's in the bedroom.

We don't know how you pulled it off, but you made it not gross. And truly, we bow down. You need to not only teach kids about history, but you should be teaching people about acting. Yeah. Well, humility within $30 million. Yeah. It's so good. Perfect.

Honey, it's so good seeing you. Thank you for playing with us. And we will see you soon, hopefully. I'll hopefully see you in person soon and I will keep on listening to this because you guys are doing a great thing. This is awesome. Thanks, man. Thanks, bud. We love you.

All right, the rest of you guys, have a fantastic week. this has been like our favorite episode in a while. See you guys. Bye, guys. Bye. Bye. Thank you, Kieran.

Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

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Drama queens drama queens drama queens It may look different but native culture is alive My name is Nicole Garcia And on Burn Sage Burn Bridges We aim to explore that culture Somewhere along the way It turned into this full-fledged

Award-winning comic shop That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.