Drama Queens - I hate Mondays • EP217

Episode Date: April 11, 2022

Let's get to unpacking this doozey of an episode.  Paul Johansson went behind the camera to direct this one. We all had posters on our walls... didn't we??!!  Hilarie, Sophia, and Joy take this opportunity to reveal their first crush wall hangings. Then, things get real as the Queens go deep about the fragility of love...they know so much now, that they didn't know then. Plus, one villain is enough... bye Felix.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Season 2 episode 17, something I can never have. This originally aired April 19, 2005. Guys, this was a doozy. Wow. From the last episode, Keith is reeling and missing for the beginning of this one. From being left at the altar by Jules, as he finds out it was all a setup by Dan. Anna confronts Felix about her sexuality and finds out who really tagged Peyton's locker.

Brooke tries to find a living solution so she doesn't have to leave Tree Hill. She wants to get a girl by the red girl. Baby! And Nathan reflects on his relationship with Haley through the sweetest flashbacks we have ever seen as he tries to win her back while she is on tour. And last but not least, our very favorite Jake Chigalsky was in his fight for custody. of Jenny. So much.

I'm exhausted. I'm emotionally exhausted from this episode. I'm so glad that someone else said that because I was like, why am I so tired? Like, this episode put us through it. It really did. It was an emotional roller coaster. I mean, it starts with Nikki. Just yelling at us.

I was going to say, the whole Nikki and Jake thing. I mean, that is, that's so rough. Custody in and of itself, anyone who. who knows anyone who's been through custody stuff or if you've been through it yourself, you know, the family courts are a mess and especially just trying to deal with, it's always court date after court date. It's never easy. There's never just a cut and clean dry way. There's always some way the system's trying to suck money out of you. So the idea that teenagers are having to navigate through this stuff too is just so gut-wrenching. I really

feel for Jake. And to see Nikki weaponize his love for his daughter against him to go to a court date that she knew

was a date he was unaware of and pleaded her case as the victim. Oh, it's infuriating. But as a teenager, like, how do you, I mean,

how do you know how to hire a lawyer? How do you know, like, how to make a court date or a court appearance, what room to go to? Like,

you know, I do a whole TV show about the judicial system where it's like grownups, our age, who are like, I have no idea. Yeah. This is impossible. It's so intimidating. For that point, though, like Jake says, I'm staying. I'm not going anywhere. Like, I'm not going to get scared off.

I forgot that he doubled down and was like, I'm going to stay. I do. And to your point, though, he gets an offer for some help and support from an adult. from a capable adult who says we can do this differently for you. And that's really his first sign of hope. That's the first thing that lets him know that he can fight. But that didn't happen until after he chose to stay, which I love too. Sometimes you have to take a leap of faith to do the thing.

Where are Jake Togelsky's parents? Seriously, guys. It's like we're children of the corn. There's just no parents anywhere. No one has parents. No, no. It's not even like his parents are saying, well, Jake, we tried, honey. You know, give her to her mama.

We can't afford her. Yeah, it's just so confusing to me why they didn't take those opportunities to flesh us out. And instead, they're like, well, there's this businessman that Karen's sleeping with. We're going to do it. We've cast this person. We pay one salary. I love that Brooke's parents are arranging for them to move, and you see the movers, but never her parents.

No, never. No, it's amazing. There's no parents in Tree Hill except for Dan and Deb and Karen. Well, Deb's not even here now. Deb, listen, Deb saw the shit show at the wedding and was like, peace. I'm out, you guys. It's too much. You know, for the people at home that don't know how TV is made, you know, your deal is

sometimes like you're in all the episodes or you're only in six out of 12 episodes. or maybe three out of 12 episodes. And with a cast as big as ours, you have to budget strategically. So you can keep all your players. So sometimes people are missing or sometimes like whole families are missing that should be involved. So maybe they just should have given our show more money if they wanted happy families. That's true. Because no Felix parents, Felix and Anna, no Greenberg, Jake Jekyllis, no Brooke, no

Peyton. No parents for anyone. And then anybody else? Who else has parents? Has no parents. Keith just had a whole ass wedding and his parents weren't there. Damn. Damn. That's true. We didn't even ask ourselves about Royal and what was grandma's name. Can't remember. Tess Harper. Yeah, I mean, she's so cute. Her commentary on the whole like chick running out. Danny, did you hire a prostitute? That would have been faceless. Yeah.

We were missing her. We need a director's cut with Tess Harper. Well, hey, speaking of the director, we had Paul Johansson direct this episode. This was his first episode directing, I believe. And the performances are so good. And that's why the performances are so good because he knows how to get a great performance out of an actor. He understands the concept of the scene and the space and the arc of the entire story. And he's great.

he's so great with actors man and he and especially for us you know we talked about it in season one how you could see where we were being pushed to perform in certain ways where we were all a little like i don't know yeah what's sexy what's funny like we didn't know i'm still asking that question honestly same and paul you know always encouraged everyone to tone it down and take it inward yeah And you see these really relaxed, really interesting, dynamic performances from everyone. I especially thought it was fun watching what Chad was doing with the Lucas and Dan dynamic and watching what James was doing with Nathan's memories of him and Haley. Paul directed those boys beautiful.

Yeah. He's been those boys. He's had to walk in those shoes and be like, be a heartthrob, but also be emotional, but also be approaching. but also be mysterious, you know, like... Be unattainable, but everyone's best friend. Yeah. It's tough being a chick, but it's also really hard to be a young man in your early 20s having to play these parts because, you know, you're having to do emotional work, but also you get told

maintain your masculinity. And you want to be cool. You still want to be cool. Oh, yeah. You know, be the guy that people are putting their poster on their walls. Just, what was that, J-14? You know? Jonathan Taylor Thomas

Shout out to the OG Wall poster boy Please tell me Did you have him on your wall? Yeah I probably did I probably did I probably when I was young

Yeah like I mean I think when I was like what 10 11 Yeah I mean I remember I got like a bucket poster thing Like I saved my quarters Remember book it it was like the book subscription thing school and I got a Richard

Greco poster like 21 children I was never into yeah but like guys I got that in like third grade I was never into boys our age I was always like he was your first celebrity who was your first crush

who was your first celebrity girl I had no idea who he was I saw his picture in the booket pamphlet and was like oh that guy looks like he rides motorcycles and like causes trouble oh my god Hillary you manifested your husband Hillary That's what you did.

You know who my first crush was? Who? Magnum P.I. Tom Selle. Oh, that's right. No. Yeah. The short shorts. Yeah.

God, I love him. Still, when I think about him in that red Hawaiian shirt, I like swoon. Get it. When I went to see, I went to see this movie, it was a drive-in. It was the only drive-in movie I'd ever seen. I think I was, I don't know, nine. And it was a double feature. The Sandlot and Ghost Dad.

Oh, Sandlot. And the Sandlot, man, when Mike Vitar came on the screen with those big brown eyes and that, like, Mediterranean olive skin, I was done. Isn't he like a firefighter now? He's like a firefighter or coppers? I immediately got on Google when I watched the same lot with Maria the other day. And I was like, man, that kid is still fucking cute. Yeah, in a non-creepy way. But, like, you know, I could feel myself back being like 10 years old again.

Your childhood self had a crush on his childhood self. Googled his adult self. That's right. Forget it. So here's a deal. If you're a handsome young man, but you also have to feel feelings, Paul Johansson is the director for you.

That's right. You know how to bring it out. Great performance from Anna in particular. I really wanted to give a shout out to her to Danielle who just nailed those scenes. So beautifully. So it wasn't too much. I mean, that's the thing that Paul's great at is reeling at actors.

in and he's like, stop doing stuff. Stop acting. Stop like doing the thing with your face that you think you need to do with the corresponding emotion to the facial expression. Stop it. Just stand there and feel what you're feeling. And when you drop into it, if you lie yourself to be that honest, which Danielle clearly did, something really beautiful happens.

Well, let's talk about that whole, like, arc a little bit because this is the fruition of lots of Anna conversations. confrontations. And it, I don't know, it's kind of surprising to me that we did all this so many years ago and it's still such a big conversation. What I appreciated about Anna's arc is that she didn't just come out right away and say, I'm gay. It became this like trickle. It was just a little slow trickle where you could feel this teenage girl trying on new things. And if she could get over the one hurdle of, of, oh, I made a joke about this and no one freaked out. And then, oh, I admitted maybe I was by and no one freaked out. And then, oh, now I've kissed a girl and I'm

still alive. You know what I mean? So by the time she gets up to this point where she's like, I'm gay. It's me. You're not talking about Peyton. You're talking about me. What was the quote she said here I'm trying to be afraid to be myself that's it she's he said it's just a word she said it's not just a word

it's who I am and she owns it and then she says I'm gay I think it's so important to show characters figuring it out you know because it

provides everyone else with a way to articulate how they're feeling and you know what I loved about what she said as well she had the profound expression of identity and when I think about when this aired and how proud I am that we did this we also got very clear about how things work in the world and she said it's not just a word it's a hate crime yeah yeah because it is it's a hate crime yeah and

the clarity to say that in an era because I remember remember in 2005, a lot of people were still saying, oh, that's so gay. Like it was just insult. And making people feel so terrified to be who they were, to say, no, that's me you're talking about. And we, I'm very proud looking back that we threw the gauntlet down to say, no, no, we don't do that. We don't make light when it's people's identities and their feeling of being accepted in their worlds at stake. We're not going to minimize that at all. I mean, Brooke Davis

fucking went for it with the whole banging on Felix's door. Like one, this is, I can't be with a person who says this anywhere. No, in no realm. In no realm is that acceptable. But on my best friend's locker,

like that turns it up, you know, to infinity. He's like, I'd dump you if you did it to anybody. Yeah. And you did it to my best friend. Oh. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Follinger, became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con

or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your, your podcasts. You know, it's really easy.

It's even a problem now on the internet. I have a middle school boy, and there are certain, like, recruiting tools on the internet where they, like, show you funny videos, and every once in a while, they'll slip in something inappropriate. And so all the mom groups I'm in, they're like, watch what your teen boys are watching. Because it's to desensitize them. Exactly. to people's feelings and to make it cool if someone cries you know and that's certainly not how

I'm raising my son but you can see how in 2005 when this aired there was a sense of toxic masculinity where boys could say whatever they wanted to say and it didn't matter who would hurt yeah I love that she went after him I love that Brooke went after him and just laid that laid that line down and it was nice for me because that's such a hard line I've always taken since I was so young. I remember getting suspended when I was little. I was little. I like this story already. Yeah. You know, my dad for his whole working career was an artist. And I grew up in a very queer, very diverse and gender diverse community in Los Angeles with artists

and, you know, people who fled here in the same way that so many people fled to New York to have safe, queer community. And when the AIDS epidemic hit, I'm not exaggerating when I tell you 50% of my parents' closest friends died.

Oh, God. And the stigma around AIDS when we were little was so strong. It was a punchline. It was only like late night shows, a punchline. Yeah. And I, I remember listening to some kids at school talking about what it meant if you died of AIDS. And I was like fist fighting with a boy. And I got suspended. And is that why they sent you to the all-girls school?

Honestly, probably. Like hitting boys. God, got to get her out of here. And it was like all the arguments I'd ever gotten in defending people who I love who've been stigmatized for who they love. Yeah. I got to put all that stuff on Felix as Brooke. And it felt great. Like knowing that these were the examples we were setting your storyline Hill with Daniela. Daniela's whole storyline is Anna. Like, you know, me being able to be playing a character who was defending her friends. Like, it all just felt important. Yeah. And it was special to be part of something important.

So much of TV can be like vapid. Like, you know, what are we wearing? How does our hair look? Stuff like that. And I love that stuff. I love when we see each other's outfits and we're like, oh my God, it's so cute. But it is nice to look back and see a storyline that we're like,

oh, that's what I wanted to model when I started doing this. Like I wanted to have safe conversations for people. And Daniela, Joy, you said it best. You're like, Paul gets people to connect in a way that's great. And that single tier that she has at the end of her scene is just like chef's kiss. It's gorgeous. So good. Keith, you want to go to the darkness?

Do we want to go down like that dark road? Sure. Yeah. I mean, I was going to say before that Brooke had speaking of Brooke, she had so much. So much. I don't know why this storyline made me, like, I'm like over here, what, weeping. It made me cry. This, like, the fact that Karen, the fact that Lucas decorated his room, like your bedroom, made space for you.

And that Karen allowed you to stay. And then the talk you and Karen have on the bed. All of it just made me, it made me cry every time. I don't know what that is in me. Yeah. But I, that one really hit me hard. I loved it, too. I loved. Also because you see this sort of, you know, mustache twirling thing of like Dan and Lucas and

Lucas tells Karen he's going to stay. And we're all like, how is she going to let him stay? Oh, because his room's going to be open for broke. Okay, okay, okay. Like now we get it. Yeah. It was, it's opening up this storyline. And I think it goes back to some of what we talked about with Lucas's character in the first season where he realizes he's lost his, way and he wants to be a guy he recognizes yeah and this is such a beautiful expression of friendship and of helping someone remain a person they recognize like that's what I feel like he's doing for Brooke and he does have feelings for her but he hasn't told her he's just trying to help her out because he loves her that's what it is I think that's what got me so is that watching we've

watched Brooke now for two, who else is two and a half, a season and a half? What season are we on? Three? Two. We're in season two. Two, babe. Okay, so it's almost two seasons. Two and three quarters. But this, this incredible arc. I mean, truly, your art has been so outstanding in these two seasons and to really see who she's become. But Brooke is a fighter. She is, she pushes through. She's somebody that she won't, she might complain for a second, but she's not going to let it keep her down. She's not a victim. She's just like just muscling through, just getting through it, getting through it. I got it. I can take care of myself. I can do all this. And the fact that Lucas and Karen, I mean, just to see someone step in and go, you don't have to carry this all

on your own. Let us hold you for a moment. It felt like such a relief for me and my empathy with Brooke over this whole season and watching her just muscle through everything on her own. man that it was a giant gesture of care from another human he carried the door oh the door the door and then paul did you guys notice the beautiful thing paul did so lucas opens the door for brook which is now red and the first thing you see is her dollhouse with the red door yes yeah yeah it was this like world inside a world and and he did what he could to recreate her world and it's just such a kind gesture, and it reminds you of who he is at his best. It reminds you of the household he grew up in with Karen.

And I love Moira, you know, Karen's sitting down to say, look, it's going to be very different. Yeah, I loved it. I loved it. She loves it. She loves it. So good. Like having a real mom. It's so sweet.

Moira was so good at kind of getting that reaction out of all of the young players, you know, because she interacted with all of us in different ways. And watching her with the boys is fun with her and like Jake, her and Nathan, her and chat, you know. You two had a really special thing, though, because you're supposed to be the party girl that's hooking up with her kid and man, like to see how excited, like your eyes would light up. Just like, oh my God, are you paid attention to me? as Brooke just like oh my god this is a real mom how cool um I also love from a production standpoint they were like we're not going to pay rent on those two big mansion houses anymore so how can we just put Brooke in a set we already control yeah we have this house and we're going to be fine

it's so good it's a door red and it'll all be the same no parents no mansions these The things that make our show special, though, these little moments. It's the simple things in life. Just the simple kindnesses from one person to another. Oh, it gets me every time. Well, look, Nathan taking Haley on the road trip to see her parents is so cute. And then tied it into this road trip to see her, which ends up not being as cute. That was beautiful.

And the little things, again, like the big red door and the small red door, the Atlanta a highway sign and then the matching Atlanta postcard. Yeah. There were all these sort of optical illusions and references to memory and identity. I think Paul just did such a beautiful job with that stuff that was probably not even on the page. Yeah. But he created it.

And I loved the story that it helped to tell. Those flashbacks, Joy. I remember shooting almost all of those. You know, I've talked a lot about how I have. bad memory and I don't remember a lot of this stuff, but I remember all those. This whole episode, I remember shooting. Because you were having fun. We can tell. Yeah. Well, you guys are so cute together in these scenes. Do you think part of the reason, too, is that you were out on tour and you had to fly back just to do these flashbacks and then go right back out on tour? Like,

did that maybe burn it into your brain a little more? Yeah, it's possible. It's possible. I really don't know why. I don't know why. It's so cool. What do you remember? I remember. I definitely remember shooting the answering machine scene, which is so funny because nobody leaves, nobody has an answer machine anymore. Right. I love that. That's in my notes. You guys making the answering machine recording. So sweet. I remember doing that. I just remember us having a ball. And I think maybe a lot of it's that I remember because Paul was directing. And so we were all just, it was really fully all just our friends doing this episode.

So maybe that was part of it. And I feel like, too, I have a question about that because Paul directing you guys, the answering machine message, I was like, oh my God, I'm blushing. Like, they're talking about it every sex. Yeah. Wait a minute. Yeah. In the answering machine, don't her parents call this number?

Don't her parents call this number. I really was like, oh, my God. Do you think like maybe just being you, James and Paul in the room made you guys like a little spicier and funnier because it was like our little family being so silly? Yeah. Also probably the fact that I don't think James and I had been fun and snuggily. I don't, we hadn't done a lot of that yet. This was the first time that we were laying down next to each other on a bed and like tickling and cuddling and snuggling.

and that was a new thing for... Laughing. Yeah, it was a new thing for Nathan and Haley to be, to see. It was a new thing for James and I to shoot. Yeah. But also you come into your sexy. Like, Joy, when you come in from the wedding and he's like carried you across a threshold and you do that little like hippie walk to the bedroom, babe.

Okay. The sign falling off the door. It's all so cute. I remember all that. And then I, and I. really remember the scene where James shows up and he comes and I you know I walk in we have to do the whole scene where he's telling me I'm here for you I married you because I you know for better or worse I support you I'm here and um I'm exhausted that was so hard to watch that was

so painful to watch her that scene was yeah for the uncertain I mean she just couldn't why was it so painful, guys. For our friends at home, you need to know that joy was like cringing through that whole scene. I literally said, I'm having heart palpitations. And Hillary goes, I feel like I'm going to throw up. I had like that acid burn in my throat because I was like, oh, oh, we were just so uncomfortable. It was so, because you know what it was?

I think when he comes in and says all the right things, it's like he's finally manning up and he's not going to like be a baby and yell at you about. Pursuing your dreams. It's like he's supporting you. And then you just have that look. And we all went, oh, no. Oh, no. We didn't remember what you were going to say.

We did this a long time ago, but we knew it was going to be bad. All of us have had to do that, you guys. I think that's what it is. And you know the look a girl gives when she's happy to see you, but also what the fuck are you doing here? and you have to pretend as the girl, like, I'm so happy you made this trip. It would have been better if you'd given me a heads up.

And I've got to go do this thing now. It's those pauses where you're trying to find the right thing to say. I don't want to hurt you, but I don't. I can't give you what you need right now. And I'm in this awkward position. It's hard enough to do that when you... know that it's over and you're just trying to find the best way to resolve it. But to do that, well, to watch it between a couple that you know it shouldn't be over.

That was hard. Yeah. But I remember shooting it too, knowing that, like really caring that Nathan and Haley still have a future somewhere somehow and knowing how much she really does love him and feeling all that. but really wrestling with, I am so young and I am trying to figure so much out. And I don't know. Did I make the wrong choice? I've just, I've done that also in real life. You know, broken up with someone and then you're like, shit.

Here's what you should know, Joy, is that you're really pretty when you do it. Like. Thank you. Yeah, I bet you didn't get to watch the last time you did that in like real life, but you got to watch this version and you're like, oh, goddamn. I do look good when I dump someone. Cute. That's rough. But also, when you came back, when it was like you'd said what you need to say and you had to leave to go out on stage and you knew that you had said just like one thing, one thing too hard.

And you had to come back and kiss him. I mean, you knew when you were coming back that he wasn't going to be there. Yeah, you knew it. It really reminded me of that feeling that love is. is so fragile. And we think when we're in it, it feels so strong and unbreakable and like nothing can nail it. And we're just like, or nothing can, you know, can, can break it. And the, the truth is, it's that I think love actually is really fragile in a lot of ways. And it's easy to break. If you don't, I don't know, it feels like it can fall apart in an instant. I've experienced this where you're in

something that feels so strong but then there's a couple little chinks in the armor and if you let it fester if you don't deal with it right away if you don't get honest if you don't then you just start to let it it starts to chip away at you and eventually you have those moments just like nathan and haley did just then and then of course she's going to go back to her hotel and regret it and think i'm crazy of course i'm in love with him what am i saying but it's too late that damage is strong and love is fragile. And you have to know what you're going to say and you have to be sure about it before you say things like that. And young kids don't know that. Kids also don't have protocols to create these safe containers where you can say, here's all my fears and I need

to say them out loud to you so that I can realize they're not true. Right. You know, Haley is speaking her fears and Nathan is hearing them as truth. Yes. And these two young kids who we love don't have the wherewithal that we all have as, you know, grownups to say, here's every irrational thing I'm thinking that's keeping me up at night and I have to let you know so you know what I'm feeling and we have to make sense of what's real and what isn't. You don't have that when you're so young and you can. It's like you see it like a shot to the heart to him. And so that is damage that's going to have to be. And she's just talking. I think that's a huge issue between men and women mostly anyway is that men are so generally so information driven and women are, you know,

we're just talking it out. Like I'm just saying it out loud because this is how I feel, but I might feel differently in a couple hours, but, you know, this is how I feel? And men take it as information and then they do things with that. And you're like, wait, that's just an emotion. I'm not, hold on that's not forever I'm a girl it may look different but native culture

is very alive my name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage Burn Bridges we aim to explore that culture it was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly

like very traditional it feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner

in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I think it was very sly that they mention Haley's parents in this episode because it does remind us that they come from two very different parental structures. Haley had the hippie parents that she could like talk things.

out with. And Nathan had to live with Dan and Deb, who we know had, you know, a pretty rough relationship. Deb fell for another man. And I'm sure Dan said all of these sweeping things to get her back, like you're my wife and I'm going to fight for you. We've heard Dan say those things. And so Nathan is saying all of those things to his wife now. But he's got to act on them. He can't say them. He has to live them. And conversely, we see Lucas actually living up to all the things that he said. It's really, really easy to say, like, the cheesy, I'm going to stay with you forever, girl, stuff. It's a totally different thing to walk the walk. And we're seeing Lucas walk the walk in this episode. And unfortunately, we're seeing Nathan drive away. Like,

had he only sat through that 40-minute set, what could have been, you know? Yeah. I don't know, though. But it's the drama we need for the episodes, ladies. Don't, don't, don't. That's true. Drama.

I don't know, though. If he had a stayed. I don't know. It doesn't feel to me like she's processed it yet. Yeah, and Haley wasn't ready. Even if he had stayed, she, she sort of took the, bite of the apple or open Pandora's box, if you will, you know, I don't know if I actually like those metaphors for this. Because I think it is fair for her to pursue her dreams. There's

nothing wrong with that. Sure. Don't you think you should have left her a note or something? Like, you're spectacular. You know, or just like, I don't know, just to leave when she's doing the things she's so excited about doing feels petty to me. It's like, why'd you come here and piss on this? It's, it's reminding me of what you said when we were watching Keith's last same with just how he hits lucas so hard sometimes when people are in the depths of their pain they want to barb at other people with it they they want that like oh man when you're so heartbroken that you want someone to see how heartbroken you are it's such a vulnerable thing he drove all the way out there this is nathan scott we're talking about this is like

dude's such a jock and he's like non-emotional and was raised by dan i mean for this boy to get in his car and drive out there after the conversations he's had with haley on the phone after all the you know the thing on the news with the misconception about chris and all of this to drive out there and wait for her with bated breath and have her walk out and not throw her arms around him and cover him with kisses and go i'm so glad you're here Thank you, thank you, thank you for coming. And not only does he do that, not only does he stay and give her, he gives her the speech. Even after she doesn't throw her arms around him, he gives her the speech, I'm here for you, whatever you need.

It's so vulnerable that when she doesn't respond immediately with, thank you, baby, I love you so much. Let's do this. You and me forever. Yeah, I get why he left. Now I'm thinking about the ring too. The taking the ring off thing is Yeah Guys I forgot

All right I changed my mind This is some bullshit He had to go You talked me into it joy You win It makes me realize too That you know

Hill Peyton observes in the episode When she's sitting Looking out the window In that scene with Brooke And says That was a nice quiet scene All of our worlds

Are being ripped away from us You know Patens and Jakes and Brooks and so are Nathan and Haley's. And then you realize it's also happening to Keith when he says, everyone I thought I cared about lied to me. Everyone's worlds are being ripped out from under them in this episode.

And the only way they're going to get them back is by leaning on each other and accepting help. Yeah. Roak has to accept Lucas and Karen's help. Jake has to accept Andy's help. Yeah. Like everyone's, they only, they only have. begin to reclaim what they're losing and accept some help from other people and nathan and haley are falling apart because they're not accepting each other's help yeah haley's like i don't know if i want

your help this is a huge testament again to why this show has stood the test of time yeah there's no there's nothing else there's no special effects that's right there's no superheroes here and whatever i don't need we need to belabor the point that we all he those were kids you know what i mean I'm so sorry. I'm embarrassed. I even said it. I had to do it. That's it.

There's no superheroes. There's no vampires. There's no, like, teenage, I don't know, like, what's it called? Glamor, suicide glam kind of a thing. Like, this is that whole Riverside vibe. I don't know. But, you know what I mean? Just like the heightened reality.

That's what I mean. We were just, I mean, look, we got into some weird shit eventually. Eventually. You know, storylines got real interesting as we moved through Tree Hill. I mean, look. hiring mistresses and private investigators is pretty weird as it is, but at least we managed to ground it. The things that make us feel everything, though, is all the this stuff. Those kinds of things happened in my hometown, so those aren't even like far-fetched. Do you know what I mean?

I don't think I ever knew anyone who hired a PI. Really? I think I did either. I was one of some encouraged to, but I didn't. Oh, dude. Yes, me too. PIs, hit men, mistresses, all those things for like a deal in my hometown. What? Wow. Did you say hit men? Oh, yeah. One of the pastors, one of the pastors in our town tried to get a parishioner to like, I'll kill your wife if you kill mine.

Who strangers on a train? Yes. Somebody watched some hitchcock and they were like, that's a good idea. I played baseball with his daughter. It was like a nightmare. Yes. And so when these things happen in Tree Hill, it's like, oh, this is crazy. But then also, also it happens.

happens all the time. Truth is stranger than fiction. All the time. Yeah, that's why I still get Star News, the local newspaper from Wilmington, where we filmed this. You too. Oh my God, there's crazy things happening all the time, you guys.

I was just about to say, I love when you text us articles. It would be so happy. That's how you know I'm an old person now where I'm like, y'all see this in the local peep. Check out this headline. I mean, Grant and I still watch the local news sometimes at night.

Yeah, you do. Just because we're like, you never see these weird human interest stories otherwise. No. Got to turn into the local affiliate and see what's what. Thank God. Mouth McFadden becomes a reporter later. Thank God.

I wish Lee Norris was a reporter. I'd watch him on the news every night. He would be great. He'd be great at the news. He would just be so good. I love that. So military school for Felix. That's a good end of the road for him.

Does this mean we're never going to see Felix again? I mean, I'm okay with it. What an unlikable character. Honestly, anytime he did something remotely nice, it just got tanked so hard. I know. Maybe we just had two. I think Dan is villain enough for Tree Hill. I don't know that we need.

It was too much. I mean, Nikki, we've got Nikki, too, who like pops in and out. But, yeah, I think it was good. I just also don't think the writers ever, they never took Felix past like a cartoon character in terms of his motivations. Yeah. Dan was rooted in some things that were really scary, but interesting to watch and learn about. Felix was just like a douche. Yeah.

And they tried to clean him up by making him be nice to Brooke. And then Brooke just had to clean up after him. I'm not mad about it or anything. It's fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. It's been 20 years. I'm fine.

I know. I think it just felt like more of a device. He always kind of felt like more of a device. It did feel like a device. And I think the reason it really stands out that his character was a device. is because of how human they wrote Anna. Yeah. Yes.

They didn't put the same effort into his character as they put into hers. And it makes me sad because in losing his character to military school, it also means we're going to lose Anna. Like we lost Danielle and that didn't feel fair. No. Think about how different Tree Hill would have been if we'd had her entire trajectory through graduation, you know? It's been so cool. yeah or like when we came back after the five-year jump yeah you know like what was anna doing oh man i wish

we'd gotten her back that would have been neat where was an i just kept thinking when he was like flipping out on her in those scenes and he was like how could you do this how could you do that and she was talking about how he always blames everyone for everything else i was like welcome to 2022 felix it's called accountability oh felix in a little dose of some accountability felix would be that guy on Twitter that like is making Brosef comments and it's like, hey man whatever. It's totally ridiculous.

I said something really horrible and now I'm being canceled. It's like no, people are just unfollowing you because they don't want to listen to you anymore. You still have a platform. You haven't been canceled from anything. Be more like Jake, Felix. Do you like Jake? That's what we need on a t-shirt. I think everyone knows, you guys. I get so many comments where people are like,

enough. You do? I'm like, you don't tell me. what to do. We'll Jake all day if we want to. I'm going to Jake all day. Is he in the next few? Like, when does he, because he goes out again again at some point, right? I mean, I think he goes to prison at some point.

Oh, my gosh, that's right. Guys, the fun part of this is it's kind of like reaching into a bag of tricks. We have no idea what's coming now. Honestly. We're skills. I feel like we've been really missing Angela. Well, where is Antoine? We missed a lot of comedic relief in this episode because the people who've been giving it to us,

whether it's, you know, mouth or skills or Deb, who else is our comedic relief, you know, for any of the Rivercar guys, we're missing all of that. And maybe that's why this episode felt like hard. Yeah. Well, and it actually makes sense when you put it that way, why those characters aren't in the episode, because this one was meant to feel low. Yeah. You know, you're watching all these people having their worlds torn apart.

And I'm curious where Keith's threat from the beginning comes in. Because at the beginning, he throws a window, a window. Oh, my God, a window through a tower. Come on. He throws a window through a window and says, I have nothing left to lose, but you do to Dan. And then at the end of the episode, he's just leaving? I'm like, wait a second, what's going on here?

I want to know what Keith's revenge plan is. I do, too. Because if we're going dark, I want to go all the way. I like this storyline for him. I like seeing him finally having enough. Yeah, you could only be the good brother for so long. But we also loved the fight in the dealership because it was just like 300 guys in suits. And there was so much like pinstripe and gray wool flying around.

They were Dan's a henchman, you know, his dealership. It was like a Tom and Jerry fight as a suit guys instead of a cloud. Guys in car dealerships don't wear suits now. They wear slacks and those zip-up fleeces with like colored shirts. I never see a zip-up fleece vest again. I'm telling you, babe. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia.

and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other. Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, this also was the episode where Peyton and Brooke have their infamous, damn it, I hate Mondays Giff.

Oh, loved it. You know what I appreciate about our little podcast here is that we also get lots of messages, not just about how much you guys are sick of me talking about Jake, but also about how we help out with your Mondays. So I like that we come out late night. on Sunday into Monday morning because Mondays are brutal and we're super grateful you guys spend. This is true. I'm happy to be here with you guys on Monday.

Do we have any fan questions? Ooh, jinks buy me a coat. What do we got? Here we go. Okay. Oh, this is good. I've also had this question, Joy. Laura wants to know

is Haley's pinky ring something Bethany wore all the time which was added to Haley's character short for many years and I was always curious about this. Well, Laura, that ring was given to me by a woman who was sort of like

a mother figure in my life who actually, years later, turned out to be a super creepy manipulative, psychotic woman. What? So I don't know where that remains anymore, but that's the story.

Wait, what? How have we never talked about this? Oh, we have. It's within the greater context of some of the other things that were going out in my life at the time. I see, yes, understood. We need to jump into a cocktail and visit. I was about to get excited and be like, Joy, do you remember when we went Pinky Ring shopping? And I'm weirdly wearing mine today.

Oh, my gosh. Now I feel weird about it. Maybe I can help you reclaim a pinky ring. That's what I need. I need a new pinky ring moment. Because, yeah, whenever I see it on screen, I'm like, you know, was it a promise ring? Did she make you promise your soul to her? Was she like, you're mine now, kid?

She turned you into the picture of Dorian Gray. It was like a, you know, kind of a creepy, manipulative way of trying to make me feel like I was a part of something and part of her family and like an ownership. kind of thing. You know, like when a guy, who gives Brooke jewelry in a creepy way? This happened earlier in season one. It was Felix, right? Yeah, Felix. That necklace she didn't like.

Yeah. It was kind of like a that kind of a moment where it's like you belong to me now. And, you know, I was having some strained relationships with my family at the time. And so she kind of came in at a moment that felt. Her to put a little wedge in it. And I was in my young 20s and it was like, oh, this great. It feels really, like, welcoming and awesome and, oh, kind of what I always wanted. And then it turned out to be a whole sham.

So, yeah, I mean, the pinky ring. That's where that comes from. I'm sorry, it's not a happy, exciting story. But I'll get a new pinky ring and it'll be better. Yeah, we're going to get matching ones. And can I tell you guys something I think is so cool? Yes. Years ago, I gave as a gift to a friend of mine, the sister of a guy who I used to.

to date, who I'm still good friends with, who had three kids. I don't know how I wound up on like some internet rabbit hole and discovered that there are certain cultures where the women wear pinky rings in a stack for their children. Oh, I gave her these three bands and three medals. And so, I don't know. I love that. There's like, there's like a whole cultural significance to women and their lineage with pinkie rings. And maybe we should just make that art. I love that. You know what? I want a big motherfuckin' diamond for each of us, like on our pinkies.

So we look like bosses. That's what I want. I think we go big. Like old mafia rings? Yeah, yeah. I want to look like a, you know, a boss. I like a little bit of a big, chunky gold pinky ring. I'm going so tacky, so big.

When we walk into a restaurant and we knock that thing on the table, then people come running. That's right. This is my favorite thing to find is things that are like jewelry or, you know, clothes on that They're like, they're so awful on the hangar. You're like, it's, it's so bad that it's got to be good when I put this on. Sometimes it really is. And I think jewelry can be the same way. Mm-hmm.

All right. We're going to find something spicy to replace that thing, Joy. Well, what about it? Okay, what about you guys? So, look, if you could change the ship name of your person for your character. Oh, this is from, who is this from? Oh, sorry, this is from Jade. She's asking, Jade.

She's asking us if you could change the relationship, the ship name, I guess, I don't know. not cool. That's short for relationship. The person your character ends up with, would you, for example, Layton to Pukas? Would you prefer to be Pukas? That's so mean. That's terrible. Yeah, but I also kissed a lot of people on this show. So hold on. I'm going to have to do some wordle over here and figure out what my options are. I kind of feel like the names, like ship names end up being the most obviously attractive sound in terms of combination of names like what were you going to call Brooke and Julian like Juliuk like that would have been weird like brilliant brilliant makes more sense yeah so I think I think we I think they landed on Pathan oh my god or Hathen

that would have been so weird too no heyth oh no it's Naley it makes way more sense yeah it's there's something about, I don't know, I think they, I think they end up where they end up in a natural sort of. Hold on, wait, Sophia, you cringe, though. Is ship not short for relationship? Am I wrong? What does ship mean? Yeah. Oh, you crick, okay, maybe you're just cringing at like the idea. I think that's an M&M reference. Yeah. About being like obsessed. Like the song, Stan, that was the stalker. So it's used as a verb? Yeah, like if you're a Stan, like if you're a one direction stand or like a one tree hill stand but the thing is is it it's become synonymous with like super fan but the stand reference from the m&m song is like

someone terrifying terrifying terrifying so the lexicon the sort of colloquialism has changed from the proper or i guess accurate so it's used in irony is what you're saying no it's used No, like, I'm such a fan. I'm like such a stalker. Oh, my God. I'm such a stalker of that band, right? No, the stalker sense has kind of dropped off and it's more like a super fan thing. Okay. There's a whole generation of kids out there that don't know the stand video.

They're just like, it's a stand. Okay, so with that said, of all the shows on TV, what ship do you stand? Oh, wow. I'm such a grandma. Wow. I got to think about it. Oh, gosh. You know what I stand is that it was never even a romantic relationship.

Don Draper and Joan Holloway. Interesting. I just, oh, every time the two of them were on screen together or working together, like there was something about those two actors in a scene together that made me love, and I love those characters together. that's cool yeah so what would what would their ship be

oh it would be don't yeah uh John I don't know what it would be well is it a Draper Holloway it's got to be like a drawaway

or see there you go we're doing it girls we're doing it yeah they um on my show they call me and Edwin Hodge because we're Samantha Griffith and Malcolm Kingsley

they call us Griffley and I'm like We sound like we came out of Harry Potter. That's a lot. It does. It does. But I like it. I'm like, okay.

Oh, wait. You know who I love is the couple from Yellowstone? Oh, my God. Well, I love Kelsey and her boyfriend on that, but her husband. Yes. But see, the Kelly Riley and what are their names? I love them. That's, that couple's so I would like to be in that relationship.

Yeah, they're a sexy couple. I would like to be in that relationship. Yeah. None of my ships are grown-up ships. Oh. Because my kids only watch kid shows. And so... You got a ship on Jesse?

What's going on? No, Gus went through a huge zombies phase. The musical, Zombies. And now George has caught on to it, and there's cheerleaders in it. And she's just, like, so freaking into it. So, yeah, freaking Zed and Addison. I'm a Zaddison ship, friends. Yeah.

We got a whole new cheerleading pack coming up. Zombies cheerleaders feel right up your alley, though, Hillary. This feels appropriate. Yes, it's a combination of all the stuff my family cares about. Little bit of sports, some undead, and a cheerleading skirt. Fantastic. Oh, it's Rip, Rip and Beth from Yellowstone. Our assistant just told us that.

What is that end up being? That's Rip and Beth from Yellowstone. That's a couple of times. Yeah, but is that Reth? What do people call them? BIP. BEP? We can play this game for hours, guys.

Guys, I think we might need to put ourselves to bed, even though it's early in the day. We are going to spin a wheel. Let's do it. Who's going to be our most likely to this week? Most likely to Be boopoo. Get a star on the Hollywood Walk of Fame.

Wow. I mean, wouldn't that be? Haley James? Oh, maybe. I guess in Dr. Hill, that makes sense. But also, what about Rachel Gatina? Because didn't she end up, like, being a TV host or something? Yes, that's right.

Rachel definitely feels like she'd be. Yeah. She's ambitious. She's very ambitious. I like it. Yeah, for sure. I also still see Lee Norris is getting, I know he's our answer for everything, but honestly, a renaissance man. Every single one he fits.

In real life, Barry Corbyn. Like, Barry's been in literally everything. Does Barry have one? No, but he should. I don't know. Daphne also, by the way, she should definitely. We need to start some petitions. Come on, kids.

We'll get those lists going. The next episode is season two, episode 18. It's called The Lonesome Road, which doesn't sound like we're going to get a relief anytime soon. So I hope you're watching and enjoying. crying and laughing on with him. Bring your tissues. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.

You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dreaming for the right team Drama queens Dream a smart girl

Rough girl Fashion but you'll tough girl You could sit with us girl Drama queen Drama queens drama queens Drama queens drama queens Drama queens drama queens It may look different

But native culture is alive My name is Nicole Garcia And on Burn Sage Burn Bridges We aim to explore that culture Somewhere along the way It turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th

who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.