Drama Queens - I’m Batman • EP304

Episode Date: June 20, 2022

Who wouldn't want to be rescued by a Superhero?! Joy admits it was pretty cool!!This episode brings new meaning to "it's getting hot in here". Joy and Hilarie share their admiration for Sheryl Lee (aka Ellie Harp) and open up about why she became such a strong mentor to them. Plus, the Queens are falling for Fall Out Boy!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Oh, friends, welcome back.

This is, again, season three, just kicking ass and taking names, one of our favorite episodes. The original air date was October 26, 2005. This is our Halloween episode, Season 3, episode 4, an attempt to tip the scales. It's the infamous masquerade party at Trick with Fall Out Boy. This is a huge episode. Huge. I don't know how. How.

shot this in our like regular number of days? I don't know. Because there's like massive stuff happening. Unreal. Literally every actor in the show is dressed up. Everyone dresses up in costume, Peyton and Mouth Dance. Oh my God. Haley and Nathan are

like kissing undercover as Batman and Bad Sandy. Dan blackmails the mayor to resign, which was super weird. Yeah, it's so strange. And it's so he can run for mayor himself. And then he asks Deb, to play along, which zoinks, what a fun turn of events that was.

And then Peyton decides to pursue a relationship with Ellie, which was, you know, a big, huge step. A lot of, like, fantastical stuff in this episode, really heightened reality. Yeah. But then some other storylines that really grounded it, you know, I said it while we were watching the episode. I'll say it right now to kick things off. Haley, just like calling bullshit on all the game playing is the voice of reason in this episode. Because everyone is playing a game.

Yeah. Yeah, it's true. You've got Dan and Deb who were just like peak game playing. You go Brooke and Lucas. You know, Peyton's like, will I, won't I with the Ellie of it all? Who else is farting around? Even though she's, even though it's very real and sincere with Peyton, it is a lot of tug-of-war of back and forth.

It's teenager shit, man. Even Mouth. Mouth is kind of playing games, too, with the Erica situation. Yeah, I think... Chris Keller and Nathan, also, the two of them. Yeah. And so, yeah, to see Haley just acknowledging. And I think Karen also added a groundedness to this episode as well. I mean, Moira always comes through in that way.

But we did have a lot of fun in this episode. Let's start out. We talked about the, I mean, we watched the costume trying on. And I remember shooting that with Chad. We had so much fun that day. Yeah. You guys shot the shit out of that. That was such a great sequence.

And was, was this our first time working with Janice Cook as a director? It was. I love Janice. Man, she came in. She was so strong. She knew exactly what she wanted. But she was also really flexible and interested in our ideas, which always felt good. Because often on this show, because we were so young,

directors would come in and they didn't take us seriously as actors and they didn't take our ideas seriously because they thought, well, what do these kids know? They're kids. They don't have, they can't really have ideas about these characters. Right. No, it's not possible that they're so smart they actually earned their way into this job. Or that we were closer to being teenagers than anybody else on the production was. And so we could be like, um, guys, it's different now. Right. But Janice was one of the rare ones who came in and I always felt respected, listened to, and she really welcomed our ideas. And so I was super grateful to see all of her work here, and she did a great job. Anyway, we opened this episode with Haley and Lucas in the costume

shop trying on all these fun costumes. And Chad had a blast. Let me just tell you, that day, we laughed our asses off. He had so much fun in that costume store. And what they did was, they didn't have it all planned out. They just brought in a whole, no, they brought in a whole Halloween store of costumes and they were like, what do you want to try on? And he just went for it. Oh, I didn't know that. I thought those were all scripted. No, not, no, they weren't all scripted. No, some of them were. I think Elvis was scripted and maybe the cowboy was scripted. But it was sort of like, you know, just a barrage of all these costumes. So that was really fun. It's just so fun to see the chemistry that you two have together because I buy that they are best friends. Like I totally

buy it and you know and to not have it be will they won't they is so rare joy like there's always that like sexual tension in these scripted shows between you know boy and girl friendships you guys nailed an authentic platonic relationship and you guys make each other funnier and make each other better like i loved that sequence thanks yeah your responses to it were so great it was just fun There was just no stress. It was like, Chad and I always had a pretty good time together whenever the two of us had scenes. I mean, we worked at that relationship, at the friendship of those two because it did feel so platonic between the two of us anyway in real life. So I think that just kind of translated really easily.

And I think we just kind of felt safe with each other as friends. So it was pretty easy to, you know, to do the thing. But I love. How did they figure out your costume? tune for this episode. Did you, did you try on multiple things or was it always going to be bad Sandy? It was bad Sandy from the beginning. They wrote it in, which makes sense.

Haley was such a Sandra D. It was smart. I loved it. I thought that was really clever. I was like, oh, yeah, I'd love to be bad Sandy. Amazing. Like, amazing. You should have been on the blonde on the show the whole time, Joy.

I don't know why we didn't just lean into it, you know? This was the season where we were like, rules, back up. Like, we don't know what we're doing anymore. No, no. Haley is Peyton and Peyton is Haley and, you know, like, Deb is all of us. Okay, Deb was, it was amazing. I was so obsessed with this storyline for Deb and Dan. I mean, the whole War of the Roses thing just wrecked me.

It was so good and hilarious. Well, it's crazy because I can't make up my mind. The really heightened stuff. Like, you know, Dan walks in on the mayor, hog-tied by, by prostitutes who don't look like prostitutes. That was really disturbing, by the way. Just as like a mom now. We're wearing shoes in bed.

That was the part that bothered me. Oh, God. It's like, what is happening here, actually, though? Those girls would not have had their shoes on. I'm sorry. Yeah, that whole scene was so turned up to 11 that I can't decide if it's comedic relief or if it takes me out of the story. Do you know, like, if it's just so bonkers.

For me, it seemed... Okay, for me, it took me out because we haven't seen... Usually when you... Okay, you know this, sorry, I'm, like, babbling, but you know this as a mom. When you're watching something, that's maybe PG-13, and you're like, I'm not sure if the kids should watch this, but I'll watch it with them,

because usually you can sense when something's coming. And so for a lot of parents out there who have been like, oh, One Tree Hill, yeah, that's a pretty tame show. Okay. I mean, there's a couple things, but you can sense when it's coming and you can. But just to see that on camera, all of a sudden a door bust open at the beginning of the episode, if I was the mom of a, you know, 10, 11, 12 year old that was watching our show at the time. I would have been pretty pissed about that. It took me out of it personally. You know, we have such good scenes in this episode where.

the little things matter. Like, Luke is admitting that he's, like, got this heart condition, you know? Like, we have all these really earnest moments that I don't feel like we needed the bad shit crazy stuff. Like, yeah. Like, why is, Dan is just, like, out of control this season. And I don't know if they really thought it was working or if they thought, like, let's just see how far we can go. I think that's what they thought. I think they were like, let's just keep pushing it.

Yeah. But anyway, so they did that, the whole mayor with the prostitute thing, but this whole... By the way, as someone that works in true crime now, the mayor with the prostitute thing is not even far-fetched to me anymore. Yeah. Like, it is the most common thing. Every single time we travel for the Sundance show I work on, we find out that the old DA either has coerced someone like a victim into sleeping with them or as a drug dealer or like has been disbarred or like crazy shit. So it's not far-fetched that the mayor was doing something hinky. It's just like, how does Dan know to break in at that second? Dan knows how to be everywhere at exactly the right moment all the time.

That's like his MO. I don't know how he does it. I don't know how he keeps tabs on everybody. But I like Sophia's a theory that Dan's put trackers in. He sells the cars to everyone and he puts the trackers in the cars. It's the only way. He's got a whole—what we're missing from this show is a panic room where Dan goes in and he's just got video cameras of the entire town.

Their houses, he's tapped into everybody's security system. All the traffic cams, Dan's just like, got him, got them, done. That's the only way this works. It is. But I'd buy it. Why not? I'd suspendably. I love the practical joking between Dan and Deb.

It gets fun in this episode. Barbara does such a good job of putting the comedy in it, because the Dan being a dick to Dan be a dick thing is, like, getting exhausting. Yeah. Yeah. And she makes it funny and gives Paul something to play with. Because if Paul were just dealing with, like, a hysterical woman, not funny. No.

But because Barbara is just reveling in this. Those shopping spree. Oh, so good. The taser in bed. Oh, my girl. I'll talk about Hans, the trainer. Was it Hans? Oh, yes.

Yeah, what did she say? She said, she's like, it got the, your mattress, it got wet when the sprinklers accidentally went off after I threw all your stuff out. That was on purpose. She's perfect. I love her. I love watching her have so much fun because I think when, I mean, when with, when she started on the show, it was so serious.

It was so much drama and heavy stuff. And Barbara is such a. bubbly fun personality. I was really glad to see her get to play around a little. So let's talk about Peyton a bit because this is, there's a couple things I have questions about with Peyton. One of them is in relation to Haley, which is Peyton, we've said before that she's sort of the most non-judgmental character on the show.

She's really open. Not today. Not today. Yeah, I mean, she's been very, like, gives people safe space. gives people room to be messy because she's so openly messy. And just she's kind of a great, she's a great friend in that way. But with Haley, in this particular instance, she's been really hard on Haley. And I wanted to know what you thought about that.

I mean, is it justified? Is it over, you know, what do you think? Well, here's what I think. She has a history with Nathan that predates Haley. Yeah. Right? And it's not necessarily healthy. but they have run in the same circle, probably since middle school.

Like, you know how those kids in the same pack run together in middle school, and then they date in high school? And it's just that pack always kind of stays herded together. I feel like they've known each other a long time. And of all the people who asked Nathan if he tried to commit suicide, Lucas is one and Peyton's the other. And they're having two totally opposite reactions. Lucas is the one that's like, you've got to talk to your wife, man.

Yeah. Like, you drove a car into a wall. That's fucked up. Like, talk to your wife. Whereas Peyton is like, Nathan is a victim in this. And how could you do this? And he tried to kill himself. Yeah.

You know, like the gravity of that, you know, for Peyton having dealt with death, she's a morose character. It's hard not to pull her out of that. And I can see why she would be a little chippy about it. You know, I was also wondering if it's because Peyton has such a history of people coming and going. Oh, for sure. The projecting is like totally on this way here. Right.

Yeah. I think so too. But I also, there's something I like about it about the friend who doesn't just let you, let you off easy. I think she wants Nathan and Haley to get back together, which is why. She's like, he just said you're hot. So if that's the green light you're looking for, go nuts. Yeah. You know, she's not trying to sabotage anything.

But she's definitely got a chip on her shoulder. And I appreciate that in a way because you and I have both been in situations where we know people are lying to our face. Yeah. You know what I mean? Like when we're like, is there a problem? And they're like, mm-mm, nope. And you're like, this isn't helping. Like, you're literally lying in my face right now.

We could talk about it and fix it. And so I appreciate that they have a friendship where they can be like, I don't like this. Yeah. I know. I like that too. I really do. I think those are fewer and far between, especially as you get older. You know, if you don't learn to do that when you're young and make friendships with people that way when you're young, the older you get the more it's just.

Like, oh, well, whatever, I'll just make friends with somebody else. Yeah. You know, and it's nice to have lots of friends, but it's also, you know, it's only a surface level if you haven't allowed someone to really come in on that, in that space in your life. Well, and looking back on the friendships that we had, like in high school, but also in our early 20s, if you don't practice confrontation in a healthy way with your friends, you will never be able to. able to do it in a romantic relationship. Majorly. That's what, I mean, families are supposed to teach you that, too. Whatever your family looks like, it's supposed to be what are the things you're learning.

It's like, we just slam doors and shit, you know. Healthy conflict. How do we do it? How do we do it? Yeah, it's really important to be able to say, I don't like this. Yeah. I don't like it. And, you know, my daughter's at that button pushing age where she's like, no.

I don't like it. I don't like it. And I just had to explain to someone. I was like, look, I need her to know that it's safe to say, I don't like it. Yeah. And right now it sucks that we're her test dummies, but she wants to be a grown-up that's like, mm-mm, not working for me. Yeah. I know. And it's hard. It's hard to be like, I respect the fact that you don't like this. However, these are the boundaries that you have to be confined within. I'm sorry that. Like, I know how frustrating it is to be confined by boundaries. They will expand as you get older. But right now, these are the rules.

And I love you. And I'm here for you. And I know this sucks for you. I'm sorry. Good luck. Good luck, kids. No, I was excited. Season three is always so nice for me because I feel like we were finally being heard in, like, what we wanted out of our characters.

Yes. And they, you know, Sophia didn't want to do all the sexy time stuff anymore. So this whole internal conflict that Brooke is having, she's not having to do anything questionable other than like, you know, give a wink and a nod here and there. And it's enough. It's enough. She's so sexy as it is. I mean, that's, you don't have to be in your underwear to be sexy at all. No.

No. And the stuff that she has with Chad in this episode, like Brooke and Lucas are. Such a fun teenage couple to watch. The cat and mouse of those two is what a high school relationship is supposed to be. Like, we're not supposed to be talking about, like, getting married and having babies in high school. It's supposed to be like, you're hot. What book are you reading? Okay.

Where's my mixtape? Yeah, where is my mixtape? Right. Damn it. Speaking of music, and we got Fallout Boy on this show. That was huge. Do you remember how excited we all were when we heard that that deal went through and they were like, oh, guys were bringing a fallout boy. We lost our minds. That was one of those days where like,

we stuck around for the sound check. We stuck around for the rehearsal. We stuck around for every single take, even if we weren't in the shot. Like, we were being very compliant. Yeah. It was like, oh, are we done for the day? Do we could, I don't, I'll stick around. I don't mind. There's food at craft deal. Just, you know, hang here. they were so cool though I mean yeah I didn't have a crush on them but I remember thinking like

I could I didn't either but it was just the fact that it was again because we were outside of L.A. Outside of all of our own hype we weren't experiencing our own hype

it was happening outside out there so it was another validation that somebody coming in like that was like, oh, wait, this is, we're kind of a big deal. This is really fun. People, they know our show. That's crazy. It may look different, but native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going like. electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep

traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So in this episode, obviously, like, Fall Out Boys a big deal, but in the first scene that Peyton's in where she's like going to paint the white wings, I'm wearing a he is legend shirt. And that was a metal band I hung out with that was like based out of Wilmington. And I was best friends with the lead singer. And I was obsessed with these dudes.

And constantly like, can we promote this metal band on One Tree Hill, the most emo show on the planet? And they were just like, no, Hillary, these guys like scream into the microphone like monsters. They can't come on One Tree Hill. But you can wear a shirt. And so I had duality. I had like a band that we were super pumped, Fall Out Boy. and then representing the local Wilmington scene. You gave them some good exposure.

That was a nice scene and it was a cool shirt. You know what's not metal joy? What? One Tree Hill. That's true. We were so not metal. That would have been something that you played and that Brooke got mad about. Like you would play it as a DJ at a party and Brooke would get mad about it.

Well, I used to take Lee Norris to their shows. They would play at the soapbox and I'd be like, Lee, let's go to a metal show. And he got wrapped up in a mosh. pit one night, and he never forgave me for it. He was like, why are we here? Oh, my God, that's scary. That's actually, like, one of my nightmares. Well, yeah, we didn't have to deal with that with Fall Out Boy. They just did a lot of twirling on stage with that, was it the bass player that would spin all the time? Just jumping around in a spinning. It was the era of angry, angry prep school boys. Like, everyone wanted to be the dude from ACDC and the little, like, baby shorts. Yeah, the school boy

outfit. Well, were they co-opting the whole, like, Britney Spears schoolgirl thing? It was like, I feel like Spring Awakening came out around the same time. I might be wrong. Do you really? Is it that old? Is it as old as us? It's as old as us. And I feel like I remember that coming out around then, and it was sort of the same. And Gwen Stefani was doing a lot of schoolgirl short, you know, the ska. The bananas. The shit is bananas. Yeah, but like the tall socks and the plaid skirts. And I just feel like there was like a prep school uniform slash punk thing happening in culture at the time. So maybe that's where it was from. That's ringing true.

I liked that. Yeah, that's fun. We've got 60 days of Dan. The deal is that Deb has to live with him for two months. Could you live with someone you hated for two months? Wow. If you knew you would be set free afterwards. Well, the first thing she should have done is photo.

copied those documents because right yeah girl we got scan apps on our phone now i know i'm just going to send to my attorney save this please two months i mean she's doing it the way i would do it just being a dick yeah why not i mean if he's good he's just such an ass yeah no i don't know could you I don't know, I'm a machine, Joy. Probably. Probably. And I guess I'm just wondering why she, is the deal that she has to help him win? Does he have to win mayor in order for the deal to work?

Or I don't think he has to win. I think she just has to really play the part. It has to be convincing to his satisfaction. So isn't she concerned, like, what happens if Dan Scott becomes mayor? Like, what happens if he gets this power he's after? Is it, like, shouldn't she be trying to sabotage the campaign, like, over here? Behind his back? Yeah, maybe she will.

I don't know, but now she's got that signed paper, so maybe she's not so worried about it because it's like, well, once he's mayor, then I can bail, and it'll just be. He'll be busy. It'll be so busy. I can't believe Dan Scott becomes mayor. It's so crazy. I mean, how many people live in Tree Hill? We're all kissing each other.

There's only so many people, Joy. It is a very small town. Yeah, listen, I was thinking about it the other day. I was just like, you know, the next generation of kids, like Brooks kids are going to be like, hey, Uncle Lucas and Uncle Nathan, you slept with those guys? And like they really are like Peyton's kids. uncles and you know like it just is that how it is in i mean i'm not still in new jersey so i don't know what's going on with the high school crowd there but what the high school you went to i mean

you're still in touch with a lot of those people did a lot of those kids sleep together young and then now they're all still friends as grown adults i went to a wedding where i was the only person that hadn't slept with anyone in the room oh wow and i was like that's crazy i mean it's Hollywood is kind of the exact same thing, though. Yes, Sterling, Virginia. Yeah, you're right. No, you know what I mean? It's a small town and everybody's on a set with somebody.

Everybody has location ships and then they move on to the next movie. And then, you know, you're like, oh, yeah. The person I'm dating now used to date like seven other people. Too cool to be forgotten. It takes me later. No, I guess you're right. I'm trying, like, because I was so square, I never. Hooked up with anybody.

I never slept with anybody in high school. That's a fun tip, kids. Just don't sleep with anybody in high school, and then you don't have anything to feel stupid about later. I think that's the truth. Girl! So, yes, that's, you know, when Brooke goes to tell Nathan like, hey there, sailor, your wife's going to be mega hot tonight.

You should show up. We were commenting, like, we know down the road, we're going to find out. Brooke and Nathan hooked up with each other. But watching the episode now, we didn't know that when we were filming it. So they're all like flirty with each other and a little like wink, wink. It just adds a slimy layer. That's one of the downsides of filming a TV series is that you just don't have, I mean, on a network anyway,

you don't have all of the scripts in advance. So you don't, it's really hard to plan for your character with a film or a, you know, limited series, you know what's going to happen and all the backstory and everything. So it's really hard when you're filming a series like this and you find out new information that really would have affected the way that you played your character for the last three, four years. Sophia would not have touched his arm in this scene. Had she known they were going to come back, you know, in a year or two and be like,

no, you two boned. You guys did this. There's no way she would have touched him. No, no way. She didn't know. Sweet girl. He did look really hot in that Batman costume, though. Well, okay, so remember what a huge deal that Batman costume was?

Oh, yeah. Because I feel like we got it from, like, a Batman movie. It was. Who's was it? Was it Val Kilmer's? Or George Clooney's? I'm going to text James right now, and I'm going to ask him. Yeah, text him and find out, because that really was a supreme costume.

I love Chad's costumes that he finally landed on. Like the Pirates of the Caribbean and the Tommy Lee costumes are great because when he takes off the wig and it's blonde Chad with the eyeliner, he and Peyton are the same person. It's just like straight blonde hair and eyeliner. Oh, my God. I love Peyton's costume while I'm waiting for James to respond. hey, who's Batman costume

did you wear in our show? Okay, I'm sending it. It was, hold on. It was a real costume from one of the movies, right? Question mark. You use the voice app like I do? I don't have time to type this shit out.

No, but I loved, I loved Peyton's costume and I want to know the history of that costume. So before we go back to Batman, tell me about where this came from because it was so original and beautiful. Hey, thanks. You know what's super weird is that when we shot this episode, we had a goth makeup artist, this chick, Sandra, who I had done a movie with in Tennessee.

And she came from the world of opera. And so was used to, like, making wigs and doing, like, crazy makeup. Because she, opera, if you've never seen the opera, the hair and makeup and opera is, it's just bananas. It's on the next level. So we couldn't find a wig that we liked. And we went through this, like, tattoo magazine and found a girl who had this black and white hair, and we were both like, that, that's it. We want red eye makeup, and we want this black and white wig. And so we took two wigs and wove them together. And it was this thing that, like, we worked on after work together. And what's so

weird is it's the exact pattern that my hair is growing in white right now. Like I wanted, Joy, I wanted that hair full time so bad at like 23 years old. And so now when I look at it, I mean, look, I have the black stripe in the middle, which is how it grows in. And then it's just all white on the sides. Amazing. Like Pangel was. It is life imitating art. It's so punk. You got your wish. Which is, girl, it's made me unafraid to go. gray because I was like, oh no, people have loved this look on me for years. It looks so good. I love the foreshadowing, by the way. It's just so cool. But you looked so good. And the wings and everything, that dress, was it all made, was it a costume they found or was this somebody sketched it out

and they built it? Do you remember? No, I mean, we had fittings. They wanted like goth angel. And there were some outfits that were a little like sexier. And this one was actually a really modest outfit. I'm fully covered up. You know, the boots cover up a whole bunch. If anything, it's got kind of a Frankenstein vibe. Yeah. And the wings were incredibly cumbersome. So having to do that dance routine with Lee, he kept getting like hit by the wings. And he was so gracious and just like, we had to do that thing where we like went up over our heads and my arm kept getting like trapped. It's like super awkward. But yeah, let's talk about that dance too, by the way. The difference between having to do the really, like, hard, sad stuff with Ellie and then be super playful with, like, Lee, with Brooke seeing Rachel, all that kind of stuff, that's what I liked about our show is I never feel one thing all the time.

Yeah. You know what I mean? And so being able to feel multiple things in one evening for Peyton, I think, is authentic. and she's super awkward, no matter what. Like, I'm always like, why she's being so weird. She's just trying to figure out life. Like every young girl out there. Aren't we all?

And we are. At any point with Haley and this quest to get Nathan back, you know, they have just, like, put you through the ringer. And it was like groveling in the last episode where it was just like, please, please talk to me, talk to me, talk to me. what were your conversations like at any point were you ever like guys like i've done enough you say it in this episode you're like i'm haley that should be enough like is that the moment of her being like we're done yeah i think it is and it wasn't something that i remember having a conversation

with any writers or anything about it i i was on board with all of it as it went along because that is a very natural thing to do when you think you've screwed something up beyond recognition you are desperate to solve it and fix it. And especially a girl like Haley who didn't ever really take a lot of risks in life. So she finally takes two big risks, but one costs her the other. And, you know, you're trying to figure out your identity and who am I. And Haley always felt so solid in who she was. And then she started making these wild decisions.

And suddenly it's like everything gets called into question. and does whether Nathan loves me or not affect who I am? And for a while there, it seemed that she did think that, that if he doesn't love me, that affects my value as a person. And so, of course, she was desperate to get that back and make it work and get it fixed. When she says I just wanted you to want me again, oh, my God. That's the worst feeling.

It is. It's really the worst. because it's the loneliest place to be and I love that moment when she looks in the mirror and it's the recognition of I should be enough just me it's okay at the end of the day somebody else can make their choices and I can't take back the past

I am where I am now and he's going to have to make his choice and then she kind of gets rewarded with this kiss I remember shooting this with James because the Batman costume was, it was very hot at trick that day. Tell them, Joy. Tell the kids.

No, we were there for like four or five. It was a long time. And they could not figure out the AC. The first day was miserable. There wasn't AC. They had a tube with an outside unit that could only be pumped in

when we weren't shooting. That's right. That's right. So if we were rolling, nowhere. And with that many bodies in there and everyone in a costume And there was a lot of pleather and a lot of leather and a lot of makeup dripping down our faces. And that was a rough room to be in.

And so we all felt really bad, particularly for James, because he was really, I mean, I was in spandex from head to toe. And Sophia was in a leather skirt too. But it was a little breathable. But James was head to toe in that leather tank. And, well, that's why when he takes the hat off and the eye makeup's dripping. down his face. But that was also kind of hot. It was sexy. You kidding? They didn't plan that, but that was okay. It worked. Just let it roll. Fine. But, and I also remember that all the steam in that moment when he comes to kiss her, all the steam that was coming in behind him,

we had to shoot that so many times because there was, they wanted him to come in with his arms up and then flap them down right when all of the smoke was coming. So it would create this like whoosh of all the smoke around him. And it was just, I just remember it was really hard to get the timing of that right with the light and the curtain closing behind him and all of the smoke and was like, get the, get the smoke machine going. Okay, rolling, rolling. Okay, holding all the roll. And then the smoke has to disappear. And then he's just standing there waiting and put your arms up. But he would put his arms up. But then it would push the smoke away by putting his arms up. And it's just like, such a pain in the ass. So finally he gets it right. But you'll see in the episode

he flaps his arm down and it's just, it looks so kind of random. Like, why is he, like, walking in, like, whlapping his arms down? I was like, what's he huffing around about? It looked like he was landing, like Batman. And then came in for the kiss. I just remember them being like, we spent so much money on this costume. We're going to use the shit out of it.

Like, they were pumped. Every dude on the set took pictures with that costume. Oh, yeah. Someone wanted to try it on. I think they went back and tried it on later. I was a sweaty costume, man. Hard pass. I don't want to put that on my body.

I was. I was pretty fun to get rescued by Batman for a moment. Yeah. It's pretty cool. It's pretty cool. And it's a big part of, you know, the One Tree Hill kind of, like the iconic moments, you getting swooped up by your husband. Yes.

I loved it when he was like, Haley always looks hot. Oh, I know. Like it was such a Batman thing to see. say, just kind of succinct. Really always looks hard. We were just talking about boys using Batman voices? We were. A couple episodes ago.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something

we've been doing for a hundred years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Oh yeah, the ominous call. I asked when we were watching, there's a picture of him and some

girl and we're supposed to believe that he's calling some girl that he met at high flyers it's chris but what is that do we ever reference the girl again or did we ever reference her before or was it just like a device i'm confused i don't know i think she comes up again in the future um i can't remember i can't remember uh what it is i mean i get him in the end but No, I don't remember. Is she like, I think maybe like a little romance that he had at High Flyers? I don't know. She's like the water girl or like the trainer or something at High Flyers.

Made a good friend there. I think she does show up. I just can't remember. Wait, was the picture framed? No, it was on his computer, wasn't it? Okay. But what's weird about is that he was looking at the photo and then called Chris. Do you know what I mean?

It's such a strange transition. Anyway. Sometimes things don't make sense. You know it made sense in this episode? The appearance of Danielle Harris-Affles. Yes. Girl. I love that.

Let's talk about that because she was also in pleather. Yes, she was. A very little bit of it. But she looked so good. Oh, my God. I need you to go back and tell everyone about the Pam Anderson crush that we had back, like, during this era. You were obsessed with her. I was.

I just loved her. Look, and I think I've talked about this on the show before. I was at one point in my life hanging out backstage of Home Improvement. I saw her early, early on in her career in the white tank top and overalls and no makeup. And she was just backstage just, you know, chatting with the makeup artist and being super sweet. She was very, very nice to me and the other people that I saw her interacting with. And I thought she's the most beautiful woman I've ever seen in person in my life ever. Oh my God. And she was also just so kind and sweet. And, and, and, like a small town girl. So as her career progressed, I know she got a bad rap and she did a lot of things that a lot of people disagreed with or judged her for or, you know, whatever. And especially people in me having grown up in a more evangelical community, there were a lot of people in that community who really didn't like her. But I always loved her. I don't know. I love Pam. I love me some Pam. So yeah, loved Pam and the whole Tommy Lee thing. And that was really fun when I saw Danielle, come on in that little red leather dress. She looked banging, man.

She looks so good. I, you know, like, you and I laughed. The scene were like Peyton and Brooke are just watching her dance with Lucas. Guys, that was my real reaction. Just like, what is this? The look on your face was so good. We were laughing about that. It was like, ooh.

I fell so in love with DeNeil. when she first showed up, like, I couldn't stop buying her presents. I was just like, I was such a dork for her. And I remember we had that charity softball game with the guys from Surface. And, like, I got tube socks. And I was like, oh, hey, do you want me to pick you up? I bought you these tube socks. And also, do you want pizza?

I bought a pizza. I just have a pizza for you. And do you like coffee? Because I buy a coffee. I just was so enamored with it. her? It's hard not to be. She's so full of life and she's so smart and she's an interesting person. She's lived an interesting life. And she gets, I think that because she's so beautiful and she has a high voice and beautiful girls with that cute voice often in my experience I've seen get

overlooked and people ignore the fact that they might have a brain completely. We all have to lower a voice like Amanda Seyfried in that Elizabeth Holmes. We have to talk like this. The need to reduce blood samples and now I need to hear DeNeil use that tenor. We're going to have her use

that voice when she comes on. DeNeil, can you talk like a man? Can you please make us take more seriously by lowering your voice till you sound like a maniac? We just sound like Bill and Ted. to freeze out on my but it's true and

once you have one conversation with her she's just so damn smart and she's so interesting and so kind and thoughtful and you know would never let somebody pass her by without saying a thank you or you know how are you I love Danielle

she's good people yeah and it's intimidating when you see someone that beautiful especially because we've been very transparent about how we were all kind of pit against each other. And we were competing with, like, hair and wardrobe and screen time and who's sexy and who's not. And for someone that gorgeous to show up and not be a threat and immediately endear herself to literally every single member of the cast. I don't know one person that was like, Dineal's a problem.

Like, she endeared herself to every single cast member. crew member, crew member. It's a charisma that is, I don't know, it's really magnetic. It's a confidence there, too, to be able to show up in a space. Like, on a show that was already really popular, it was a well-oiled machine by that point. We all had sort of figured out our roles in the social climate behind the scenes of the show to come into an arena like that and just be who she is and just fit in and not worry about where do I fit and who likes me and who doesn't like me, which is a very natural thing to do. That was just, there's a maturity there that, that I think we all had a girl.

That's why we all had a crush on her because of that. Dude, have you ever seen her beauty queen photos? I'm sorry, what? Oh, oh, and how. W-H-H-H-H-T. Okay, so like when, when, God, what season was it? Season six, when her and Jensen were together, I used to go stay with them and sleep on their couch, which is why they pawned me off on Jeff. They were like, get Hillary off our couch.

But they're in their house, she had her old beauty queen, like, headshots with, like, the big, huge sparkly glitter crown and, like, a scepter. And like the, and like puffy sleeves on the, I mean, they are magical. Yes. We're going to need to get those. Listen, you know, once you make it there, coming on to One Tree Hills, like, who are all of you? Big whoop? Yeah, exactly. For any of you. you're a beauty queen i don't think i'm a queen um no i mean again it just lends itself to how big this episode was yeah a lot of new yeah i mean the intro fallout boy a lot of turning points with different relationships and uh all the fun with dan and deb and then the introduction of denille and we have a and kelsey asbiel is in the next episode as well who is now starring on

Yellowstone. It's like things were really rolling for our show at this point. It was just... Three rolled. Man. How do we have for top three? Good season. I don't know.

Yeah. I don't know either. Well, what else haven't we hit? Oh, I love... Oh, hey, hey, hey, remember? Okay, so season three is also when we started to get real bitchy because when Haley tells Lucas about... Oh, Brooke is super into Tommy Lee.

And he says, oh, is that something she picked up in the O.C? Oh, yeah. What a dick thing to say. That was so good. Yeah, it was. It was fun. Why not? Yeah.

I did like that he went for it. Like that Chad was just game to like go for whatever. He was always like, sure, make me look like a complete idiot. Love it. Let's go for it. Yeah. He got to be funny here, and I think he liked being shirtless, too, because he, he'd been working. He'd spend his summer, you know, doing push-ups and things.

Yeah. It's like, check, check these out. Well, everybody was watching the show, man. He had to be ready. Our boys looked good, season three. They were all in great shape. I wish we had seen Vaughn and Cullen and, you know, I've, like, skills wasn't in this episode. Like, they should have been at the Halloween.

Halloween problem. It was a big episode though. I don't know how we could have fit everybody else in, but it would have been so fun. What would their costumes have been? Oh, that's such a good question, Joy. Skills would have been, I'm trying to think of like what was happening in 2005. Oh, yeah. I mean, I just know how much Antoine loves Samuel L. Jackson. Antoine was so influenced. Oh yeah, it was full fiction out by then? Oh, for sure. Yes, yes, yes. He's for sure Samuel Jackson.

And, I mean, Lee is already dressed as John Travolta in Saturday Night Fever. That would have worked. He could double. We could have two Travolta's. Two travolta? I mean, would junk be. Bad Sandy, too. He could have been, he could have been.

Oh, my God. We could have had a Travolta trifecta. That's true. Trifecta. How did we miss it? Oh, my God. Fergie could have been Greece, Travolta. Junk could have been Pulp Fiction Travolta, and Lee was Saturday Night Fever Travolta. That would have been really fun. And then they all could have done the dance with you.

Tell me about the dance. How long did you guys have to rehearse that? Girl, we did that for like an hour one day after work. You did. You were your cheerleading. No, it was, I'm not a good day. I'm not a strong dance. You look like you knew what you were doing?

Because if you notice, I'm watching Lee the entire time. Like, that's not like... It works because it looks like Malf is the one who really is doing this, which is for sure what he would be doing. He is the instigator, for sure. I liked having scenes with Lee. I think we get paired up later again for the boy draft. And Peyton hits this kind of platonic stride for season two.

I mean, there's not much action between. her and Jake after that one, like, initial wedding hookup because then it's all just trauma, trauma, trauma, trauma. Yeah. And I don't think she hooks up with anybody again. No, it's a while because she has to deal with all this stuff with Ellie. And that's a lot. We also haven't really talked much about because she, God, that's just so hard that he, you know, when he says, you know, here's the one thing you get here is a heads up. but at least it's not just going to be somebody disappearing.

And I don't know, what were you hope? Was there anything you were hoping for with that storyline when Cheryl came in? And did you know how long she was going to be on the show? Yeah, what? No. No. No. Joy, in a million years, I didn't think they were going to kill her.

Oh, my God. In a million years. No. I loved this parental situation. And I think like a teenager would, real life Hillary was like, maybe her and Larry will get together. Do you know what I mean? Like maybe I'll get a family. They had great chemistry too.

They really did watching them together. I'm like, how are you two not just like, hey man, let's just do this, you know? Because they're different energies. He had that real blue collar thing and she's like the girl who's lived hard. and has figured it out. And I liked their energy together. And I liked that my storyline wasn't about kissing a boy. Yeah.

And that it was about kind of this like real self-discovery. It felt like real work. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? Like I liked getting these scripts because it was like, oh, this is, you know, this is the kind of introspection that's interesting to me. Yeah. Yeah, because everybody's dealt with a romance like, oh, my heart with the boy and the girl in the

Oh, go, fine. And, you know, you can always find something relatable about that. And it's interesting for someone always. But when you keep repeating the same thing over and over, you really need to have, as an actor, you've got to have a challenge. And you really rose to the occasion here. I mean, it was beautiful. I really love the both of them.

And I specifically loved Cheryl, because we've talked about it. I was so hungry for, like, like, old. female mentorship. And I think that's why we love Janice, this director, so much. I needed someone to model what my life would look like. Because I don't come from anybody in the industry. I had no model for what I was supposed to be doing. Like, how do I spend my hiatus?

Do I audition for stuff? Do I not audition for stuff? How aggressive should I be? Should I hire a publicist? Should I show my boobs? Like, Hillary, I'm the same way. I never thought about that. But that's so true.

I was starving. What do I do? Yeah. Yeah. And she came in, so calm. She'd already done the whole whirlwind, you know, and was unimpressed. Like when we would have scenes together, she would just talk about her son. And I was up for a job.

I was up for this job where they wanted me to be topless. And it was a really good movie. And I really, really wanted to do. it, but I was really chafing at this, like, topless thing. And I don't have a problem with other people who want to do that at all. But I didn't know if it was my gig, you know? Totally. And she was like, kid, I got a son.

And one day you're going to have a son. And so if you're okay with that, okay. But if you're not, think about him. And, you know, I was years away from having my son. But it made such an impact in my decision-making process, not just, for that one job, but for all the jobs. Like, is this something that I want, that I want my kid who I don't even know yet to see? Also, she had a really sexy snake tattoo on her back.

Wait, I think I remember that. Yeah. Yeah, because her son was obsessed with snakes. And she's just that cool. She had a snake tattoo. So when I did a movie years later and I had to have tattoos, they're like, what do you want? And I was like, will you put a snake tattoo on my back as a tribute to her? Because she was just...

That's why you really didn't... I really didn't... I really didn't... I really did a snake when we were doing good Sam. And I had to put tattoos on myself. Yes? And you said, put a snake. But it would a snake.

It's the cool girl thing to do. I never in a million years thought that they were going to kill her. Like, why would you waste Cheryl Lee like that? It gutted me. I don't know why. I don't know why. Well, we'll have to have her on the show and ask her what happened. We've got to find out.

I'm sure you felt the same way. your parents i mean you had freaking hughie lewis was there a morning period for you um when he and best like cut and run well no i mean because i think it was i knew that it was just a temporary popping in popping out it wasn't and we knew when best was coming back for the cancer storyline we knew what that was when it started yeah so yeah that wasn't a big surprise i do love best though and have stayed in touch with her and she and I have had some lunches and just connected because I just love her. She's a wonderful woman. Huey, I did not stay in touch with because it was way too nervous to do that. Also, I guess it would have been weird, like a, you know. Hey, you want to be friends?

It's not like now where you can just, like, DM someone. Like, you used to have to ask someone for their phone number, which is so. I don't blame you, girl. No way. I couldn't have done it. Oh, my gosh. Forget about it. Well, this is a great episode. How do we follow this up, though? Like, they just keep getting bigger and bigger and bigger. Well, they're going to give DeNeil a bigger storyline. Mouth is going to find some interesting things to happen with our beautiful, talented friend, Kelsey S. Beale.

We've got to see the Chris Keller Batman falls. What's it called? Oh, that's what I was going to ask you. This whole idea that Nathan's like, you know, that Brooks, like, she's like, She can't write a song without Nathan. And then Nathan's like, she can't write a song without Chris Keller as the songwriter in our group of friends. Is that real? Like, can you not write a song if you don't have a muse?

Not for me. I know there are some artists that feel like they need to be tortured in order to write or they need to have a person around all the time to be inspired. That's not. But I've also been alone most of my life. That's the song, Joey. I've been alone most of my life, you know. I've been alone forever. Oh, man.

No, I'm just kind of used to. People always leave, Joy. God, damn it. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep tradition. alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn SageBurn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Let's do it most likely two. Let's spin a wheel here. I can't. You've certainly pulled a lot out of this episode. I'm sure we could pull a most likely two. So many. Everybody was in this one. Everybody. be the best, ah, be the best wingman or wingwoman. Hmm. Who's, I mean, we've all been out at bars together before. Yeah. Interesting.

I'm trying to think. Hillary, you're a great, I mean, you're a really good wingman. I have to say, like, out of, out of everybody, you're so interested in other people. You're so, you're very quick to just keep the conversation going, which is, you know, part of what made you being a VJ so successful because you really. are good at just keeping everything going. The bullshit? We're just going to spin this web. No, but you drop into real stuff just like that.

I mean, there's no, it's a talent that you have. Oh, thanks. And, yeah, so I would, and that's what you need in a wingman, right? You need somebody who, like, knows how to keep everything flowing, but also knows to recognize, oh, okay, like something's, there's, there's, it's happening. It's time for me to back out a little bit, you know? That's what you need. Guys, I'm going to get a drink.

Who needs something? That's right. Yeah. You know what, Joy, I feel like that's the drink that you need to make next, the wingman. Wingman. Yeah. Where it's just like a dependable drink that is like delicious but also like, you know, subtle. Like, oh, hey, no, I'm totally not trying to hook you two up.

Yeah, I'm crazy. Settle. A subtle, that's good. It's a slow burn. Who's our character, wingman? I feel like Deb would be a great wingman. for sure, for sure, because she's not subtle at all. Deb's the one that walks up and it's like, hey, hey, hey, hey, my friend wants to kiss you.

You cool? She's just going to make it happen. Yeah, which is a great strategy. I appreciate that. You've got to have both. Okay, next episode is season three, episode five, a multitude of casualties. Ooh, that sounds heavy. Uh-oh.

I love you. Love you too. All right, guys. Thanks for joining us. Have a great week. See you later. Bye. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.

You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for you. for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team. Drama queens, dream a smart girl, rough girl,

fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop.

Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.