Drama Queens - I’m Crying For You • EP 717

Episode Date: November 11, 2024

The Queens are all back together and they're praising Joy for her directorial work this episode. She reminisces on being behind the camera of this episode and how she chose to navigate the heavy emotions of it. Rob, Joy and Sophia discuss the surprising chemistry between Mouth and Miss Lauren, the comic relief between Victoria and Sophia, and the James/Scott family's emotional journey to accepting Lydia's illness.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Hi buddy. Welcome in everybody. Hi. You got the whole trifecta today. This feels so nice. Welcome home, Rob. Thank you. Welcome home, Sof. Thank you. Welcome home, Joy. Thanks. Feels good to be home with you guys. Aw, this is great. It's been a minute since it's been all three of us, but I'm happy about this. This is a nice episode, too. And I don't want to get ahead of us, but I'm going to. I was so delighted. I was so delighted. to see that you directed this episode. Thank you. Me too. And I'm going to get ahead of myself again, one of my favorite shots of the season so far. Do tell. Whoa. Yeah, let's talk about it. Yes.

Let me talk about the specific shot before we even talk about the episode title. Oh, wait, no, no, no. Hold on. We do have to do the episode title. You're right. I forgot that this is part of our job. We do the episode title. Well, director, director, read it.

Hello, everyone. This is season seven episode one. That's 17. At the bottom of everything, air date February 15th, 2010. Nathan tries to help Haley and Jamie confront Lydia's seemingly hopeless situation while Brooke and Julian navigate their volatile friendship. While Brooke and Julian navigate their volatile relationship in the midst of a hectic movie shoot, meanwhile, Clay is on a work trip and runs into a familiar face. Miranda also tries to prove to Grubbs that she's the right person to produce his album directed by yours truly writer john norris i really enjoyed this episode so much i'm glad me too it was very well written i think there could have been no one better to direct it than you because of the the sort of central force in haley's life being the center of the episode and i don't know why i heard it's like i heard in my ear while i was watching one of the early episodes that you and I did with Hill talking about the kind of revelation of the simplicity

of our show that we just let people talk about their feelings and all this vulnerability and all this learning to process. And in a way, the device of everyone having to help Jamie as a kid process it, I was like, man, this, you know, obviously we didn't get to meet Haley's mom until this adult phase, the time jump of the show. But it felt like an old episode to me. I loved it. Yeah. We actually did meet Hayley's mom early on when Nathan and Hayley go meet.

I forgot. You're right. Yeah, the wedding. But it's been so long. I mean, Rob didn't even know that Huey Lewis played Haley's dad. So like, you know, we had a lot to catch up on with the two of them or with her anyway. But yeah, I agree. There was a simplicity that came back in this.

even in the um the antics with grubs and miranda like it was you know it was gimmicky and fun but it was still just two people just trying to connect in a in a unique and funny way and i there's so much of that in this episode the simplicity that you're talking about i really were you aiming as a director to to try to make it feel like the high school years or do you think that was just coming through in like reverse osmosis? No, I think I was just trying to feel the emotion of the scenes. I mean, directing for me is like listening to music. You feel in your body where the emotions are sitting.

Is it high, fast-paced anxiety, like the scene with Mitch and not, and Jana, Alex and Alex, the daddy Alexes? is, or is it softer and more gentle and like the opening scene where I'm watching Lydia and all the little movements that you appreciate about somebody as you recognize that they're going to be slowly leaving your presence?

So I don't think it was more about trying to identify the, with the first few seasons, as much as that just naturally happened because our directors in the, for your first few seasons, I think also did that. They really moved with the musical emotion of the show. Yeah, I like that a lot. It also feels like it's a combination of good writing for good actors.

Yeah. Because I watched that opening scene, and my first note is, you know, I like the way we're watching Lydia's story unfold. It feels very grounded and real. So I think you have good writing, but then you have people making smart, subtle, honest choices and that kind of set the tone for everything because that that story is the through line to the episode letting it be just let it let people take a look no nothing was forced even a glance to the side or just watching somebody sit let leave the camera on the actor and trust them to give

you what you need you don't have to do a lot of stuff with the cameras not a lot of fancy tricks that need to be done just trust yeah and you know what it's really good point because when you give great actors you know like best and and all of you surrounding her and all these scenes, really good material. It's also not overwritten. It wasn't one of those scripts where you knew you were going to lose two scenes to the cutting room floor just to make time.

You actually had time to watch a line be delivered and then watch someone think about what they just said. We had some air to breathe. And I think that was really important for the subject matter because if it had been sped up for the amount of lines in the episode, there was so much nuance we would have meant. Have you ever heard that story about an old black and white movie? It's like one of the classics.

And the final shot is the woman watching like a boat go off into the distance. And, you know, it's on her. And I guess the story goes that she, you went to the director and said, you know, what should I be thinking about? You know, while I watch that. And he said, doing your laundry when you get home. He was like, what? And he said, you don't have to do anything. And the audience is going to project all of their own stuff that they've been feeling for the last 89 minutes onto that moment.

And I love that, right? Because it's the truth. And like, the same thing with this one. Like, everyone has a story that's similar to what Lydia and the Scots are going through, right? So everyone has their own baggage that they're going to bring to that scene. So when you have a good actor kind of just sit back and do a little with it, it's not a problem because the audience is going to meet them halfway or more than halfway with their own stuff to fill in all the blank. That's a really fun part of acting when you just get to hold space. You know, there's times when you have to drive a scene and you really have to dive in.

But, man, to be able to just sit back and hold space for the audience, that's the kind of storytelling that's like it feels like you're really in service. You're not there for an ego boost. You're there to just open it up and let people, let the audience do what they need to. Yeah. I love it. That's really cool. I had this, an early mentor of mine say, it should be a privilege for the audience. audience to know what you're thinking.

That's interesting. And then we'd be occasionally, we'd be occasionally doing a scene and he'd be like, Robbie, less, this is, this is your lean in moment. And he goes, this is when we get the audience to lean forward in their chairs. It's like, oh. So it was kind of the beginning of that, like. I'm going to write that down. It should be a privilege for the audience to know what you're thinking.

I love that. That's great. Shout out Tim Busfield. What up, Tim. You know what? It makes me think of the scene that you. a little further into the episode. I know we're going to probably bounce around today

because we're talking about so much emotional stuff. There's that great scene where Quinn takes Clay to see the gallery space. And I wrote down that you guys did something really special because we've all been in that position where something horrible is happening and you've got to just do what you've got to do. You know, she's got this thing happening at home

as all the James girls do, but she's trying to keep it positive and Clay's going out of town and Quinn's got the space and you stop her and you call yourself the poster boy for suffering alone and Chantelle made such a great choice or maybe it was just

what was happening between the two of you like sometimes it takes you over and sometimes you're really trying to do the right thing for the roller coaster of the episodes I don't know what she was thinking but I loved watching you because I saw you offer an observation of yourself crack her open because she knew she was being seen and it is so hard to act on the verge of crying

not to just cry and she is trying to hold those tears in and keep it upbeat and she's smiling but her voice is cracking and her eyes are tearing and you're just standing there telling her you're going to be home as quickly as you can and neither of you is really saying the thing but you're saying so much. And I was like, oh my God, this is one of my favorite scenes in the episode. Like, you guys were so beautiful together. She was so good in that scene. The takeaway, the note I had from that was, these two are a really good team. Yeah. I was like, oh, yeah, okay. I wrote, she's on the edge the whole time and it makes me want to sob. That's my note. Is it like, I'm watching these people do this beautiful job, like trying not to cry alone in

my living room. You're right. That's the smart part about that's the interactive storytelling. telling of an actor holding it back because then it gives you the chance. It's like, you know, when you grow up in a family where there's one person with all the emotion and nobody else has space for their own emotions? Gee, I wonder what you're talking about. So that's what it's like to be able to be an actor and hold it back so that you're not taking over the emotional space. Let the audience have the emotion that they need to have.

That's exactly what you're talking about, I think. Do you remember directing the scene? I do. And what I remember is that you. You guys made it so easy because exactly that. I didn't have to, there wasn't a lot to do. It was just let them feel what they're feeling. I think I, I just trust audiences a lot, probably a lot more than I should. I don't know. I think I give people a lot of credit for being smart. And so I, I don't know. It seemed like it was going to work, but it did. Yeah, I don't think that's a fault. I think that's a good thing because the result is good TV. Before I forget, let me just tell you my favorite show it was, because I'm going to jump way ahead. Oh, yeah.

The Owen and Millie, storyline, first of all, was wild and great, especially great because in the recovery meeting, when she sees Owen, I thought, oh, no way, this is an interesting way to bring Joe back. And then about five minutes later, my notes, I'm like, wait a second, isn't he the one she slept with? And then when she has him come pick her up at the apartment, first of all, when she walks in and she's really petty and jealous to Ms. Lauren and mouth, I was like, come on. Then she has Owen pick her up at the place, double come on. But when they're bowling, the shot is this. Sorry, this is the scenic route to getting to my point.

They're bowling. It's the end of the scene. Yes. And they both sit down to take their shoes off. And lean forward. Yes, I wrote it down too. It's just a shot at knee level, but both heads have dipped into it, and they're just talking. And I thought, oh, that is such a cool, unique shot.

I love that. Do you remember doing that? That's not one of the ones that was, like, really sticking in my mind. I just remembered it. I mean, no, I mean, I like that shot, too. I was always looking for ways to have people not be talking heads. Like, sometimes it's important to just, as we say, leave the camera alone and let people do what they're doing. but I wanted to create a sense of intimacy.

So I'm sure that was one of those things that I was just watching them do their action. And, you know, when you watch an actor create a moment, you're like, oh, that's exciting. Stay there for a second. Let me figure out how I can, I love the feeling I'm getting. I want to get closer. So I think they just did that in rehearsal. And it naturally was great. Let's do it.

And it was so, what I loved about it too is that it was. felt spontaneous, which is such a nice feeling to get when you know you've shot a scene 86 times in like wide shots and closeups and whatever. And I loved that they both leaned in and we didn't watch them taking off their bowling shoes to put their shoes on, but we knew exactly what they were doing. Yeah. Yeah. You know? It's so cool. I liked this storyline. I like the two of them. I relate to the sense of yes, they they had this moment. together. I don't know whether we landed on it was a mistake or it was just what it was. I mean, we had a lot of issues around the way of those episodes were written around Millie

and her virginity and all that. But they experienced something together that created a ripple effect in their lives and still coming back together and talking through things, being friends, instead of just avoiding each other, like understanding that there's something in the shared experience that they need each other and that's okay it doesn't everything doesn't have to be perfectly clean cut and following all the rules of how you should be interacting with people if that makes sense um i just really i really like their dynamic a lot and i didn't know how much i missed owen until i saw him just as a viewer i was like oh yeah owen i miss him well it's also really refreshing when to your point we've sort of seen this

pseudo-stereotypical thing happened and we go ick and then this unexpected thing happens episodes later and and owen knowing where milly is because he was there once yeah and being a good friend and being you know protective and encouraging in a way it's almost like a pallet cleanser for all the stuff we hated months ago yeah and and it reminds you of how great actually both of these people are and and I appreciate when we don't act look life is not black and white right like everything is shades of gray you can be a good person and still have made a mess you can be an incredible spouse partner daughter son whatever and and still have hurt someone you care about and been devastatingly hurt by people you care about I appreciated in this that we let people

make a mess and clean it up. Yeah, we get to see the longevity of that. Yeah, it's human. And I think maybe it feels even more refreshing, you know, because we now live in a sort of experiential era that we didn't, when we were filming this, where everything is so, like, sharp and judgmental and the internet is full of bots.

And, like, everything's just vicious everywhere. Yeah. There's no room for longevity. There's no room for people to be people. And I love, I don't know, I was so relieved to see that long arc of this relationship and the healing that they're doing and the way that they only really can see each other right now and like support each other. And I just thought it was really beautiful. You know what else? I don't think I had seen almost any of, certainly not on the CW at the time, was AA or any kind of, like,

a group therapy group accountability like like the the normalizing of going to a meeting like just show up at a Tuesday afternoon meeting and if somebody there is makes you uncomfortable the fact that he offered like we can schedule it so we go on different days just the normalizing of that in conversation that it's so it's totally okay and it's good and it's helpful I realize that just watching it back, I was like, I don't think I'd seen almost any of that on TV. So it was kind of cool. It was cool. Yeah, for as much as I disliked Millie's drug storyline, I found this refreshing.

Yeah. It was the right amount of like raw and messy, but honest and the way that they wrote Owen into it. And he sort of shepherding her being the more experienced with some time, you know, recovery time, was great. You know, and I think there's a line where she says something like, thanks. I don't think you know how much that means to me. He's like, I do. Exactly.

I was like, been there. Great. You said so much there. Yeah, yeah. Simple. Cut it down. Just cut it down. Because there's so much power in it.

And you know what's crazy? Just hearing you say that, Joy, like I just had this whoa because obviously we all talk a lot about, you know, growth and journeys because our characters went through them. we've all been on this ride together for you know 10 to 20 years and like seeing you talk about how that just wasn't a thing then and your book is behind you it's like I sort of had this out of body experience being like oh my god could you imagine if then when you felt as isolated as you did and I hope it's okay then I bring this up but like you you were so stuck in your high demand group we all were also in a

like an almost toxicly masculine environment where no matter what was happening to anyone we were never supposed to bring it up and never supposed to talk about it and never supposed to rock the boat and you were supposed to come to work and like do your thing and you know I think so much about how this was the season after like Hillary left when she and I finally got to start talking

about some of the things that we were putting the pieces together as we talked about earlier in the show like the things Mark was doing, the things our boss was doing and saying behind our backs that we couldn't really talk about it until she was gone. And it's like, can you imagine if instead of coming to work and being like, hey, are you good? And then waiting and being like, yeah, I'm good. Are you good? And everyone was kind of like, yeah. Like if therapy, if, if, if, if A.A., if any of this stuff had been less taboo, like, can you imagine how much quicker we would have arrived to this place? It would have changed. That would have changed my life. And I'll tell you,

you know, we, I had, there was addiction in my family and it's in the lineage, you know, but that stuff gets passed down, whether it's your immediate family or your, or you're, right before the grandparents. And my, I remember my mom taking me to Al-Anon, which is for family members of addicts. And I remember her taking me when I was like 16 to, and dropped me off, you know, thinking this is going to be good for her. It's, it's, helpful. It was best of intentions. But at 16, it was like this dark small room. I think there was like six other people. I was so uncomfortable. I didn't, I wasn't in touch with my feelings anyway at that age. And it just felt so awful. And it hadn't been normalized because the shows

that I was watching at that age, those networks weren't talking about things like that on a regular basis. That just was not normal. But man, if that had become a normal part of my life at 16, 17. When I came to Wilmington, if I had just looked for some Al-Anon meetings to just jump into and maintain this sense of accountability and anonymity, but also being able to recognize there were plenty of other people in the room who feel just like me. Because you feel so much less isolated. Yeah. To know you weren't alone. Exactly. You're just in a room full of strangers. I don't need to know everything about their life. We don't need to be best friends. But to hear two minutes of somebody's story about how they're struggling and how they're coping, how they're feeling today. If they're feeling great, if they're feeling terrible, it's like, oh my God, I am a part of the humanity. I'm part of the human experience. It's, it absolutely would have been life-changing. You're right. I wish I had. Yeah. And I do too. I mean, I think about like, you know, I tried to start doing therapy, I don't know, halfway through our third season. And with our hours,

I could never go. Like, there aren't therapist office that can work around a 17-hour, you know, a day schedule. And I didn't know about Al-Anon. I didn't, I didn't know about any of those things then. And I don't know, I guess it's a really, it's like, it's kind of a long way around to get back to the point, but it's profound for us to watch now. And like, we're 40. Imagine what it would have been like then. I don't know. I, I almost wonder, like if anyone is listening, I wonder if any of the fans of our show had an aha moment watching this episode like seeing a meeting and going i think i need that you know the way we have a union rep come to set like once a season yeah yeah it would be great if there is just an allanon

rep yeah who popped by and was like hey there's so much addiction in hollywood and in our like it's rampant all around to have somebody specifically from allanon would have been great and and for as rampant has addiction is so is recovery amen i love that rogue and you know there's a There's a large school thought that says, you know, the opposite of addiction isn't abstinence or sobriety. The opposite of addiction is connection. Yeah. You know, and there's this science experiment that was done. And this guy, he took 100 rats, like, rat, or he took rats individually, right?

And he had two, like, water things where, like, like, sippers and one of them had morphine in it. And individually, like, I think 99% of the rats. ended up overdosing and then he put them he decided to switch it up and he said i wonder if i put them all in like a communal like a community sort of structure so they're all together and still provide the same options and the overdose dropped to like zero or one percent wow and so it was just kind of it was the beginning of this conversation of you know the the opposite of addiction is community and like so what you were talking about joy it's like it's about connection because that's the thing so isolated, you know, and as soon as you hear your story coming out of someone else's

mouth, it allows you to sort of take that weight off your chest of like, oh, I'm not uniquely broken. Yeah. This struggle is actually common. Like, I have teammates, you know. And that's when recovery becomes a team sport, you know, as opposed to, I think a lot of people go into it thinking, like, I got, I got to figure out I do this on my own. This is an in-house job, which is a losing proposition. Yeah, and it's harder for people to use it and weaponize your your issues against you if you realize that you're just one of many, that there's a normalcy to it that we're all just trying to figure out. Yeah.

Also, I love the irony of your mom dropping you off. Granted, I don't know anything about your family, but the irony of like a mom dropping her 16-year-old off at an Al-Anon meeting, having no idea she's planting the seeds to a lot of her own stuff coming to light. Yeah, for sure. It's like, mom, this is going to work, but not in the way. Yeah. You're like, are you ready to talk about family structure and trauma? Because if not, don't open this story.

It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditional.

alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Yes, on set, it was a really, speaking of good teammates, you two are so, it just infinitely likable and so great together. But I loved this moment, right? Because I love a vulnerable guy. Give me all that all that. Yes. And I love when he's like, hey, can I ask you a question?

I can like only ask you. I'm like, what is this going to be about? And he just goes, am I doing okay? And man, that hit me in the heart. I was like, I believe that. I love that. And that was just such good partnering. And then the way that Brooke responds to him is just so sweet and loving.

But that was such a good peek behind the curtain of like where you guys were still at that I just thought was so great. Yeah. It was really fun to play this kind of time. Obviously, it's, you know, there's sort of sadness to disrupted relationship. And I thought a lot about watching, you know, broken mouth and Haley on the couch a trick. Because she's like, I just don't know. You know, maybe we just don't work. We've all been there, right?

Where you're like, God, I really love this person. I'm like, I just don't know if it works. And I made a note in my notes. where I was like, I love that Haley, especially our friend, you know, who's on camera up and married since she was 16, is like, go get him, make it work. And I'm like, that works for Naley. But, like, for most of us in the real world, like, it doesn't work more often than it does. And yet, what sort of hit me as being so sweet, and I laughed. I was like, I really love that everyone's encouraging Brooke to, like, you know, put the walls down and be vulnerable and lean in. What I

I see watching this is like the fun that Austin and I got to have together. And, and, you know, now all these years later, like the friendship we've had since we were 23 years old. And I like watching these two trying to figure it out because I see, I see versions of who I was and who he was and who all of us were in that push and pull. And I kind of, you know, Oh, this is what I wrote in my notes. I was like, of course we give the rom-com answer of like, no matter what, figure it out, which like, L-O-L, maybe rom-coms are the reason everyone's in therapy. But I also, I just love that we got to watch a struggle that wasn't related to some crazy dramatic event or an affair or a car accident or whatever, that it was really two people trying to figure out if they could be. emotionally compatible, you know, could they feel safe together? Could they learn to communicate

better? Could they build a life together? And I like that it wasn't an easy answer. Yeah. It seems like for Brooke, there's been so much volatility in relationships. And there was with Julian because of his savior complex issues and the situation with Alex. But I really, really like seeing Brooke being willing to make space for somebody else's flaws. Like, you know, she's been, that's the whole thing, choose me, pick me, right, for her, that she does deserve that. But also, as you say, like, there's a lot of gray in life. There's a lot of just humanity and messiness that we try and sort through. And it's really cool.

I'm still irritated with Julian. I don't know why he keeps making bad Alex decisions. Like, let me walk into your room. Are you a effing idiot? I just can't wrap my brain around it. But that's his deal. Like, okay, okay, man, you're working through your stuff. Yeah.

But there's a softness. There's like a real, this is a totally different side of Brooke that we're seeing in a consistent way. This has been like four, four episodes now, maybe five, that you're really just softer. It's interesting. Yeah. yeah and I like it and I like I saw kind of a parallel obviously different you know relationship stage and different issues but in the same way that I really loved what Clay and Quinn weren't saying in the gallery I really loved what Brooke and Julian weren't saying about the sweater Johnny Norris did such a good job writing these scenes for us that we got to talk uh we with so much subtext. And, you know, Brooke's telling him he's got to dress a little warmer on set. And, you know, it's your sweater anyway. And, and these things. But she's saying, I know you're tired and it's cold in here and I'm worried about you and I love you. And he's telling her that, you know, she can always sit in his chair. And, you know, he's saying, like, you're in the chair. Like, you're my person. And they can't say it. And I don't know. That's good writing. That's when you know the writer, trust the actors. They're writing. They're,

They just write the words and they know that you know the subtext and they trust you to do it. Because if the scene was just about a chair and a sweater, everyone would be bored. Exactly. But hold on. Speaking of the wardrobe, first of all, shout out to the actual real life, One Tree Hill wardrobe. Yes. Yeah, the big warehouse. Our warehouse.

Listeners, that was our actual wardrobe warehouse. What I loved about that, first my first thought was like, oh, my gosh, that was our actual wardrobe warehouse. And then my second thought was, it's whole. hilarious to me that a low-budget indie with presumably about two actors in it had a warehouse of wardrobe that bit. Because just so you know, on an indie that size, you would have maybe one rack of wardrobe for like all of your cast. Yeah. You'd have half a trailer full of clothes. And we had seven seasons worth plus like all the Dawson's Creek leftovers, plus any other show that had ever shot at screen jams in a warehouse. movie magic. It's got to look big and bold. No, honestly, it was just cheaper than creating a set full of, like a half a trailer,

like a realistic movie set. That would have looked so puny, too. I think the audience would have been like, wait, why do they have like six clothes on a hanger hanging rack? And what you were saying, Sophie, about the going for it, the one thing I like, you know, the show does a lot that thing where it's like on the act out of one scene, someone will be saying a line that then feeds into the act in of it. And other scenes, we sort of had a similar thing with the through line of people encouraging each other to go for it. And what I really liked about that was I'm a big believer in like, I'll take regret over,

or excuse me, I'll take failure over regret any day, like 10 out of 10 times, you know. And so I liked that it was kind of this like, who cares? Like, go for it. Shoot your shot mentality. So I really appreciated that. I was surprised by some of the shots. Thoughts taken, though. Say more.

Okay. First of all, I'm watching every Miss Lauren and Mouth scene for the past three episodes. And I've been saying this in the podcast going, did anyone feel like they were about to kiss? The whole time. And then this episode, I'm doing the same thing. I'm like, gang, what are we doing? I was really confused. First of all, does she have no friends?

She's just, like, become a best friend of Mouth. But how does he not know that she's not talking to skills? How is that a question? First of all, he asks her to what, pick up lunch. Okay. So she brings over lunch. So they're going to hang out. And she's like, oh, what are you doing playing video games? Okay. So what was their plan? I don't know why. I wish I remembered how we tried to make sense out of this because it didn't make sense to me even today. Well, and it was so jarring that it took me out of it. And I was like, wait, was Anton making a movie? Like, where was Antoine? We sent him to L.A. to like, make you know the sports coordinating thing happen but like really where was he and obviously Allison Munn is the greatest human alive so like duh we wanted to never let her leave set yeah but I was like how are we not why isn't she hanging out with like Brooke and Haley also yeah like her other friends it's just weird because it's so fun to have her but they do have great chemistry and because we only see them together over the span of all these episodes, it gets to a point where as an audience

member, you're like, well, are you trying to tell me they have more than friend chemistry? Because at this point, it feels like you are. Yeah. What's going on here? And it does feel confusing. Well, and we've never seen either of them separately or together have one of those moments of like, oh, is this maybe more than just buds? Yeah. So that's why it was, so as an audience member, I'm watching it going, this is strange there's something not being addressed i don't quite get so that's why it was odd for me when fast forward to the end of the episode mouth speech isn't to milly it's to miss lauren at her door yeah i just thought like where why have i not seen him like have you know a lingering smile at her

or any sort of like any sort of runway to get to this moment we needed the uh the george and elaine without jerry episode remember that no George and Elaine go out without Jerry Jerry's like he can't go to the movie whatever he's stuck and they're both out like this is so awkward we don't hang out with each other without Jerry what do we do but then you know they make friends by the end of the episode of course but well not of course but anyway that's what we needed we needed this like moment of the two of them kind of being thrust into a situation together where they're like oh actually we we do have a lot in common in spite of the fact that you're we never really hung out outside of skills like I kind of like

you let's hang out more exactly. Exactly. It would have been so great if at any point they'd been like, I'm really glad I have you to talk to, but is it weird that I'm talking to on all this stuff since we've never really hung out before it? And the other person could have been like, no, it's honestly such a relief to me. Like I, you know, something to acknowledge that it was weird would have, I think, brought the whole audience along better. I wonder if fans felt that too. Are we just feeling it because we are watching the episodes so quickly, and back then it was all really stretched out? That might be part of it. I just wonder if the fans felt that way, too, by the end of the episode, they were like, uh, what? Okay, so that's our second question. So first one, obviously only if you feel comfortable sharing with us and we would never reveal personal details anyway.

But if anyone was like, whoa, when they saw a meeting and it, and they were. Remember it being impactful back then. We'd love to know. And question number two, were you all completely confused by Mouth and Miss Lauren also? Or are we nuts? The people want to know. The girlies and the boy want to know. Yeah.

Because also, am I not remembering correctly that there's like, mouth has a moment of saying it's complicated with Millie. Like he's confiding to someone, right? Because we see the opposite side of it with Millie and Owen, where he's like, yeah, no, mouth has a moment of saying. Some to the effect of, you know, like we're off or like we're just misfiring or something, right? And then Millie has the same moment. So it was just, it felt out of left field.

Like the, I feel like, I feel like the audience member understood it more than the character did. And it's interesting to me because I remember feeling this kind of like, ah, this is when you were going to get the landscaper joy. Rob and I were talking about there's that great scene where you come in and sit with, with broken mouth on the couch. And it's like, tell me the, you know, spill the tea. Let's talk, all the things. And it made me go, wait a second. Why haven't we seen Mouth talking to Brooke about Millie or Brooke and Millie hanging out at all? Like, I don't know. It's weird to me that people aren't leaning on each other a little more. But I guess that's what happens when you have so many actors on a show. In 22 episodes. I think that's probably part of the casualty. of so many actors, so many storylines, and 22 episodes. And it wasn't, as I understand it, a terribly happy writer's room. And so I think there was probably just a lot.

No. No. Yeah. So I would imagine there's just some things that there wasn't a real symbiosis happening, not a lot of, there wasn't really a groove for people to get into with some of these storylines. So they couldn't plan ahead too far, I think. And then you never know if an actor's going to be available or not. And so then you have to pivot if they're not. I think there was just a lot on the fly. And then those are the kinds of things that happened. Suddenly they've got to

speed up a storyline that makes no sense that they've laid no groundwork for. And we've seen this a lot before. I also feel like there might be some truth to us simply not wanting to lose Allison. She's so great. Because this story does just kind of of feel weird. It sort of just feels a bit like, not a placeholder, but like, all right, what can we do? You know what to me? Like it doesn't feel very. Yes. Yes. Yes. And she's so darn good in it. It makes sense why you'd want to keep her because you don't want to lose her. But it's sort of like, yeah, I don't know why. Yeah, it feels like they, there was a question mark over everyone's schedules. And they just sort of went, let's just find something for Allison to make

sure that we don't lose her to a different show. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense because she was super in demand, too. I mean, that girl books pilots, like, I book plane tickets. I mean, on and on and on. Nice. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like, Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive, while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Best Armstrong. Yes, can we talk about Best Armstrong? Is the real deal, man. For those who don't know, Bess Armstrong played Lydia. and just she's so good. She's so, so good. And Joy, you have so many great scenes with her.

Thanks. And the way that you shot it and it was written, I just loved it. You know, because we are. We're a soap. You know, like we tend to, like, swing for the fences and high highs and low lows. And this just felt like a very grounded,

honest portrayal of a family. and like grieving and adapting in the real time. Yeah. And she's just so, was it tough doing? You had a great scene where it was just the two of you on the couch. By the way, Joy, you also had a scene where you're on the couch with your shoes on and you're sitting on your feet. Explain yourself.

Oh, and before we get into like the really important stuff, did you also notice in the scene with Alex and Alex after the one night stand? Clearly, listeners, go back and watch this. Every pillow on that bed is either a throw pillow or a couch pillow. Set deck clearly had no normal pillows, and they were like, no one's going to be looking at that. Go back and look at every pillow on the bed is the ugliest hotel room couch pillow you've ever. Yeah, there's not like the two rear pillows that are for sleeping. It's just the display pillows.

I can't believe I missed that. I'm such a detail-oriented person. That's really funny. I must have. I was so tied up with getting that shot in particular. I remember, we were running out of time. And there were a lot of things I was like, I really wanted to be a time-efficient director

because I wanted them to keep bringing me back. So there were scenes I was like, what can we do in one or two shots? And that was one of the scenes that it was like, I think it was a three-shot scene, but the close-ups on the two of them we probably did in two takes and the rest of it was on one camera.

And yeah, there was a lot of maneuvering around for that. So I'm sure I didn't notice the pillows. But dang it, I wish I had pillows. I also just love that as someone who lived in New York for as long as you did, like this is how you realize we walked to set in like ugs or slippers and then you put on your wardrobe heels on set because no, none of us would ever wear our outside shoes. On the furniture? Into the house, let alone onto the furniture, ever.

Never. Appalling. So gross. No, but remember we had that fit? Maybe you weren't here. So if there was a fan who wrote in a question was asking us, I noticed that you guys put your shoes on, you wear your shoes on the couch or you walk on the rug or whatever with your shoes. And I think it was that we don't have a lot of time. Like, you can't just be taking

your shoes on and off for every moment of ever seen. Plus, people are creepy. And because during filming, it's a huge height differential. Oh, yeah. And we were like one of the only shows in history, in the history of Hollywood with tall boys. You had to wear high heels to act opposite James. I had to wear high heels to act opposite Austin. Yeah. They weren't going to like build us step blocks to get into closeups where they could see us over the boy's shoulders. So we wore stilettos every day. It was ridiculous. I think I imagined that those sets were like, I've never had one of those houses that you walk into and everything's always in its place all the time. I have friends who every time I go to their house, I'm like, what do you, how do you do this? Because I'm definitely

messy. So I think I imagine Nathan and Haley's house being one of the super pristine homes that Like, there's just fairies that come and clean up after you if you put your shoes on the couch. Yeah, called setback. By the way, this, I didn't know what it was until, you know, later in life, obviously, because we both got our diagnoses later in life. But in the world of learning about being neurodivergent, and when it's like, oh, yeah, do you have little piles everywhere? And I was like, oh, no, we do. And you're like, no, but my little piles. are my organizing system. And now, like, my partner affectionately will be like, are you stressed

little squirrel? Look at all your little piles of acorns around the house. And I'm like, mm-hmm. Just saving up for winter. But you know where everything is in every pile. But we know where everything is. Yes. And I didn't know how weird that was to people whose brains aren't wired like ours. Yeah. Until people were like, isn't this anxiety inducing? And I was like, that is like spatial Xanax for me. What do you mean? This is for anxiety by anxiety, okay? I was like, this is actually called a coping mechanism. Yes.

High functioning anxiety has many appearances. This certainly does. Well, Bess Armstrong was, she was so lovely and open and made directing her really easy. She's such a mom. She's such an encourager and really. You know, she had ideas, but she, it's interesting as an older woman to be directed. Like if I had a 23-year-old directing me right now, I hope that I would treat her the way best treated me. Like, she really, it's interesting to listen to the leadership of someone who's younger than you and really trust that they know what they're doing.

And especially as an actor, you know, you want to put your best foot forward. You want to be represented in the best way and to trust that somebody. knows what they're doing and they're not going to make you look like a fool. She really trusted me and it meant so much to me. We had a great chemistry, we had an ease in our way with each other in the scenes. And yeah, it was easy. We just sort of dropped in and said the lines and I don't think we did too many takes. It was just like, just say what's on the page.

It's what you were talking about at the beginning of the episode, Rob. Like, just it's great writing. You let good actors do what they do. Yeah, you guys brought it in that, that scene was very, very touching and just honest. I loved that. The scene with Jamie, her and Jamie was also very sweet. I was sitting there noting like, gosh, this is a great scene. And then it ends in a funny way, though.

It takes a hard. It's Lydia and Jamie in his room, I think, and they're looking at pictures. I think there's an actual picture of you from childhood, I believe. I think it's an actual real-life joy picture. And then, yeah, it takes a real hard left when she's like, P.S. I'm going to be dead by Christmas. She didn't say it that way. I mean, I'm paraphrasing, but she basically was like,

I love celebrating Christmas with you. Unfortunately, I'm not going to be here this year. The look on his face. The look on his face, I let out an audible oof. Yeah. And I heard myself and then made myself laugh. And I was like, oh, this really, she's not, she's not wearing any gloves. She's just going to say the thing.

Yeah, really. It's so, the look on his face, he was like so confused. And then this is actually kind of amazing that a kid this young was capable of making that transition because he was looking confused and then it hit him and he realized like, whoa, you're saying you're going to be dead. But he didn't overact. I mean, that's kind of hard for a kid to make that big, weighty transition and not overact. He did great.

Yeah, he really just let it happen. And you know what I loved in a way is that the heaviness of that scene that we all went, whoa. it gave such an honest motivation to your scene with her. And I loved that she said, you're angry. She said either like you're angry or you're mad and you were like, I'm not. I'm upset. And it let you guys have a conversation that sadly we know is so universal for so many people who experience illness in their family.

And you were like wanting to fix it and wanting a second opinion and wanting the thing and wanting Nathan's doctors to look. And she got to be like, you're not listening to me. I want to enjoy the time I have left. I know what it is. And so hard. And I felt so much for both of you because I know that I would do exactly what Haley was doing.

And that if I were in Lydia's position, I would say exactly what Lydia was saying to Haley. And it was, I just thought like, wow, I bet so many people feel really seen by this. The scene with her and James, too, I really loved. That broke my heart. When he thanked her. Yeah.

So simple. It was exactly so simple, right? Like, just let the words do the talking. It was so good. But going back, the thing with Jamie, the reason why I bumped on it is because so often people get diagnosed or not even diagnosed. They get given sort of you have this many months to live. Like, everyone in their family has a story of like the grandma who was told she had six months to live and she lived. for 15 years.

Yeah. So I just felt like it was a little premature to tell the nine-year-old, I'm for sure going to be dead as disco by Christmas. When it's like, okay, I know your doctor said that, but like, there's a shot. There's a shot. There's a world in which you're not. You know what I mean? Can we just, can we give it a second before we tell the child?

We've only got two more episodes with me, honey. So please get yourself ready. There it is. There it is. It's like, Rob, I wish you'd been there to be like, he's not even in double digits. I know. Come on. Kitty gloves it.

Just a little. Oh, that is fun. The other look on Jackson's face, too, when he came in and said, I don't want Grandma to die. Oh. Also, really good, really good performance. So simple. Yeah, I was impressed with him in this episode. He was really great.

And you know what I loved, too? they really gave everybody a lot. A lot of these moments I'm realizing where they got to say a lot in not so many words. And you saw that in a lot of Jackson's performances, which obviously are a big deal for a kid his age at the time to be able to pull off.

And in the same way that I felt like Nathan was so stoic in the best way with Lydia, you see him do it with Jamie. It's like they really gave James such simple things to say, and James showed up in exactly that incredibly supportive. This is not my moment to lead. It's my moment to hold you up from behind kind of energy. And even when he finds Jackson cleaning out his toys,

it was such an interesting choice you guys made. I don't know if it was in the script or it was something you decided on, but to have a little boy cleaning out his toys because he's about to not be such a little boy anymore and instead of saying, hey, you know, buddy, we really got to talk about this or tell me how you're feeling, don't cover it up. James, you could see him realize what was going on

and he just said, I'm here if you need me. Yeah. And it was so nice, you know, met by a kid who's behaving in a, And, you know, an emotional, kind of salty way to be like, whenever you've done whatever you're doing, I'm here for you. Yeah. I was like, man, that's really nice parenting. Good parenting. And also, how relatable.

Like, oh, you're having big feelings. So you're busying yourself with a household activity. Yep. Yeah. We all do that. Yeah. I stress clean. I sad clean.

I big feeling clean all the time. Yeah. Uh-huh. Yeah. I think that was something we decided to do. I wonder if I still have the script. I'd like to go look because I feel like there was a lot of just sitting in a room together, like Jamie's sitting on his bed and we come in and sit down next to him and have a talk.

And I feel like that's what I do. I busy myself if I don't want to deal with something. I just clean or whatever. Yeah. You've seen my spice cabinet. Yes. Yeah, I'm like, everything in here needs a labeling. That's right.

I have a question. Have we met Josh before, the lead actor in Julian's film? It felt odd that we didn't, we were just supposed to get who this guy was. He had been in a group setting on the set the episode before. Oh. He was there in sort of the cast, like people standing around set. So we saw him, but it was very brief and probably not memorable enough for the intro. What I loved was the choice that you guys made to shoot him coming in in slow motion, handing things off, being handed other things.

It was so clear like, oh, this is the dushy star guy. Well, that's why, because we didn't have any history with him. I was like, the audience is going to have no idea who this guy is if he just walks up to the craft service table. I need to, like, introduce him. People need to understand who he is and what his personality is ahead of time. Yeah. It was almost a way of seeing how he saw himself. Yes.

Which was a great, like, okay, I think I know who you are. You know, like, oh, we know you. Yeah, this didn't happen in real life, but this for sure happened in your head. Yeah. That was Paul Thiel. And he played Noah in my version of the notebook when we did the workshop of the notebook in Wilmington. He was our Noah and he was so good.

And so he was already there and around a lot. And I think the Van Canons, when they knew they had this part coming up, they had seen him in my show and called him into audition. So it was really fun to see him actually on screen too. But he totally has that, like, kind of reminded me of Ryan Philippi a little bit and had this, like, real, he just knew how to play douche real well. It worked for me. Was there ever, I just, I was shocked on our show when we had a legitimate opportunity

to show more people in their underwear that we didn't take it. Was there ever a scene of shooting the love scene in the movie? No. Because like we shoehorn as much gratuitous flesh into the show as we can. And here we had a big sex scene being shot between Alex and Josh. And we didn't see it. And I thought, huh. And then like, but the episode went, okay, we made a mistake.

Here's India and lingerie. Yeah. Oh, man. That was a rough one. Yeah, tell me about you having, because as I watched, I thought, I'm curious how Joy and India talked through this and did this. We had a big disagreement about this, actually, India and I. I love her, by the way. Like, I hang out with her mom when I go to London.

India is amazing. But that day, it was, you know, she was pretty new. She and I had worked together, I think we had one or two scenes together. and then she started working mostly with grubs. And I had envisioned her, I was like, let's give her a real acting moment where she's been doing so much posturing as Miranda. And I want to give her this moment where she comes out and it turns out all of her posturing, she just has like normal granny panties and like a really uninteresting bra.

And she comes out and she's just still super confident. and India was adamantly against this and we kept kind of going back and forth between wardrobe like no I really want this is this really I think will feel really great for the character and then it would come back to me India's really uncomfortable with that she doesn't want to do it and then I was like okay let me it was going back and forth too much I just went back went over to her trailer and I was like hey I let's it's better if we talk face to face what's going on and I don't know how much of what the women on set experience with our boss carried into India's journey as well. I haven't talked with her much about it. But she was so, she was so nervous about the possibility of having to

really come to set in a real set of underwear. And she was like, if I, if I could come to set in something that feels more like a costume, I can settle into this more. It still feels like it works for the character and I just please like woman to woman this is what really feels more comfortable to me and that was that's it you know sometimes it just takes a face-to-face conversation it was like done you got it that's what we'll do that's fine and it worked it worked great like she she came out she was boss she looked amazing she was she committed to it but why why did we need india in her underwear in this episode it's so unnecessary in you're right rob If it belonged anywhere, it would have been in a comedic setting of Alex and this Josh character trying to figure out their love scene.

And instead, we've got, like, we've got Miranda walking around trying to prove vulnerability. And it was just so awkward. Yeah. We even have a scene of Julian referencing how the sex scene went. Exactly. And a funny thing happened. So it's like, wait, what? You know what's really interesting about that?

is the Julian reference and like making it funny, I know is referential to something that happened on our set that really wasn't funny. And it really irked me. I was like, God, I hate that we're making jokes about this. And watching, it's so interesting to hear that. I didn't, I didn't remember you and India's conversation in like the larger context.

I wrote in my notes, I remembered how, uncomfortable she was and how nervous she was and what the pressure was and what was written into the script for her to be wearing and you know how everyone was like what do we do about the expectation from the boss and whatever whatever and when i watched her walk out watching this episode i was like oh my god i remembered her being like the boss gets what's being demanded And also if I'm wearing these black stockings, I'm almost wearing pants. Yes. And it feels like a Halloween costume.

Yes. And what I loved seeing her do it now from this vantage point is I got to see it all in greater context. Because obviously at the time we were all just like, God, this is so. Yeah. Infuriating. Terrible. And she plays so much of her stuff with grubs in this episode with like a very masculine swagger. Even the way she grabs his beer.

and he thinks she's being cute and then she disses it like all these things and she's I mean she like claw stomped out there in that outfit and was like I'm hot what do you want for me? And I was like oh my God

she really took this thing that made her uncomfortable and made it so boss. And ironically walked out in lingerie but managed to have so much of her body covered and I was like I want to give India a fucking high five today.

So smart. You guys. it. I'm so glad she had you as a director for that. She's so smart. It was just great. Yeah. She saw something that I couldn't see. And when she explained it to me, it made total sense. And it just goes to show what a brilliant businesswoman she is, too. Guys, if you aren't following India De Beaufort, you really should go follow her on Instagram. She's just really fun to watch. Anyway, so a talented singer and stylist and like really interesting person. I was going to say her styling videos. I know. I just sit and watch them. Anytime I have to go on a trip, I'm like,

what should I wear. I need to go see what I'm wearing. I could like pop the bag of popcorn and just sit and watch those like one after. I'm so fun. I need her to have a show. I know. Yeah, she's awesome. So that was, that went better than it would have if I had been on my own. So good, good on her. Yeah. You guys did such a good job. I'm so glad that for her in particular with that storyline, she had you as a director. Like it was so important for you to direct the you know, Haley and Quinn and Taylor storyline with Lydia. Yeah. And I think it was also really important for you to be, you know, one of us, directing one of us going through what we went through with our boss.

I think that was really special. When she walks out and the hardcore rock and roll guitar riff came on, I had, I just, I face palmed, like, talk about hat on a hat, you know? It was like, I just laughed going. Oh, yeah, totally Joy picked out the heavy-duty guitar riff from when the girl, I'm like, get out of here, man. You know what, though? In some ways, that might have been Lindsay Wolfington additionally protecting India and making it even more campy. Yes. Well, now that I hear what you're saying about, it's like a costume she's wearing, you're 100% right.

Yeah. It completely makes sense. But when it first happened in the moment, I was like, as if we need to, like, highlight this anymore. It's like, okay, audience, here's what this is. Can we also just address the red hair dye that must have been in the water in Wilmington? Because first of all, so if you were the only one without this red in your hair, somehow you managed to get your hair like an ashy brown finally. But that's part of why we dyed my hair so dark because everyone's hair was running so red. Like even Millie.

And at least for you guys, yes, at least for you guys to play siblings, they were like, works but they started over dyeing my hair. I was bored. This was like we're an aerial Little Mermaid territory. We're in like the, when you go to emoji mermaid on your phone where it's like purple red, like this is the territory we're in for Haley. I don't really don't know what happened. Part of that is also though the color timing. Because remember, they color timed our show so warm. I mean, it changed the color of people's eyes. Yeah. Yeah, that's true. They turned the warm saturation up so much on our show that I promise you. Your hair was red, but it didn't look like Ariel in person, I promise.

There were a couple of shots. I was like, did they just dump an entire bottle of Hena in my hair? Like iodine? iodine. Iodine. A hundred percent. That's the color. Before we wrap up, I got to give a shout out to how funny the scene was with,

Brooke and Victoria, when she's talking about how I've taken a lover. Yes. It's my honorable mention. All of that was great. Then Brooke and Julian, when Brooke tells Julian about it, and he's like, why are you telling me this? And Brooke's like, because I had to endure it, so you have to endure it. Yep. Yeah.

We can be traumatized together. We can be traumatized together is so good. And then are we supposed to gather that Paul stood up, Victoria at the end? Is that why she's sitting at a table by herself? I guess so. That was a little vague, too. I don't quite remember that. And I'm also assuming that here's the question I had. So of course, when Julian's like, I'll walk you to your room. I'm like, dude, can you, just one time, can you learn a lesson? Can you adapt, please? But and then when Brooke walks in, obviously Alex is laying in bed naked. I think I know where the trick is, is that I'm guessing.

next episode, we're going to find out that he switched rooms with her because she wants her to get sleep. Exactly. Right, listeners, we have a, we have a listener question from Chelsea. Nathan says to Lydia, you were responsible for raising the woman that changed my entire world. my question is wow this is loaded who do you think had the most impact on your life wow thanks chelsea that's a big question i don't think i could give that to one particular person like the best positive impact on your life yeah there's so many there's like so many versions

of that and i also would like to think because we're not all in our mid-80s we don't know the final answer to that question. Yeah. That too. You know? Yeah. So many, there's so many different mentors, so many people, there's people I haven't even met that have made a huge impact on my life. There's people, I mean, our parents always make a huge impact. I don't know. I honestly don't know if I have an answer for this. I don't. I don't have an MVP. Yeah, there's just too many.

Listen, it genuinely took a village to get this guy where he is. So, yeah, man, team sport. Yeah, I like that. Team Sport. Yeah. Let's spin a wheel, friends. Scrolling, scrolling. Most likely to plan their high school reunions. Not it.

Absolutely Hillary. Yeah. Oh, yeah. None of us. Definitely not any of the three of us. But her, she would be the one. Yes, I buy that. How about a character on the show?

Miss Lauren, probably, don't you think? And I was going to say, pre-her struggle, Millie. Yeah, Lauren and Millie really could have been great friends. I could see the two of them teaming up to plan a high school reunion. For sure. I also love that we read the question and all three of us were like, not it. And then we thought about our characters. We were like, not it.

Not it. Still not it. I love us. All right, cuties. next week we will be in season seven episode 18 the last day of our acquaintance i just remembered what the episode's about and i got so sad yeah that's right clay dyes his hair wait we didn't talk about clay and katie hold on two seconds we got to spend like give me 90 seconds on clay and katie this is crazy did you know this was coming i mean when you read the

script were you like what are we doing come on 100% I remember reading this and going, oh, I wonder who they're going to get. Like, that's a tricky cast. Like, I wonder who they're going to get. And they're like, good news. We got Amanda Schoel. Like, for the same, we're going to just soap opera this. And I just, they're like, don't worry, we have a fix.

And apparently the fix was dyeing her hair like two shades different. You're like, yeah, but what about her same face? Yeah, it's funny because that last shot of Clay when it's just that look of like, what? I think was just me in real life going, wait, what? Also, he walks up to her while she, this is my mistake, obviously, as a director, but you walk up to her while she's playing tennis. Like, excuse me, in the middle of a tennis match. Like, she's hitting balls and turns around.

Maybe Clay is just in such shock that he loses all sort of, like, decor. Totally. Propriety. Yeah. It's the beginning of the few. fugue state. Oh, gosh. I'm dreading.

Okay. It's going to be great. It's all going to be great, gang. Wild Red. But yes, this was a interesting turn of events that I'm sure nothing crazy will come of it, you know? No. No. No.

No. Okay, folks. We'll see you soon. I'm obsessed. Thanks for joining us, gang. Thanks, y'all. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.

You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H. Or email us at drama queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dreamer for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.