Drama Queens - Into the Woods and Weed Wackers (Barbara Alyn Woods as Deb Scott) • EP105

Episode Date: July 26, 2021

The phenomenal Barbara Alyn Woods (Deb Scott) is the ultimate Drama Queen. She’s sharing not only her memories but her wisdom, her compassion and her strength with Hilarie, Sophia and Joy. Find out why a long lost relative in Wilmington helped her get the part.  Barbara's letting you in on everything Deb, Dan and Nathan.  Plus, hot tub hair stories and why she doesn't have fond memories of those tan pants!  Learn more about your ad-choices at https://www.iheartpodcastnetwork.comSee omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion with your tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Hey, hey, hey, welcome back, episode five.

All That You Can't Leave Behind, Air Date, October 21st, 2003. That was dramatic. We had a lot of interesting stuff happen in this episode. I'm exhausted, frankly. Yes, lots of dramatic Peyton. It really was. Between the basketball and the, and the Peyton, like, dealing with her intense pain about her mother. And we find out so much about Whitey in this episode.

Lucas wanted to change his last name. I mean, there was a lot of moving forward with storylines here. So this episode is when Lucas asked Keith to play with him in the annual father-son basketball game, which I just love. And Dan humiliates Nathan and kind of himself on the court.

It's painful. Really himself. Really himself, more than anyone, yeah. And really big deal that we should talk about, which is that Peyton marks the anniversary of her mother's death and this is the famous running of the red lights episode

my favorite part of filming this episode and no one knows this is that during all that stuff on the bridge with Chad and with Whitey there was an old man whose backyard butted up to the bridge and he hated

that we were there and he wanted no part of us there and he would just stand in his backyard and would wait for us to yell action and then he'd start a weed whacker and he would just stand there. He would just

stand there with the weed wacker going and I remember just standing there for hours with the sun bearing down on us and we're trying to like make nightfall and this guy is like wait for it, wait for it action

brim and so we sent someone. Didn't anybody want to go tell him? Oh babe. We sent multiple people over to him and he would threaten them with the weed whacker like it was a sword

yeah so I love background noise did they tell him the kind of scene that you were trying to film about like a young woman getting advice from her grandfatherly figure

We were walking up traffic we were being nasty I mean there's nothing fun about a film production coming into your neighborhood you know like you can't just run your errands and they're making noise

and there's riffraff looking in your backyard what if you're trying to bury a body back lights yeah oh man yeah it's also so interesting to me though that people who want to take a stand like that and i i'm going to i'm going to go ahead and just be honest you're being very kind to said rude old man because it's like dude we're just doing our jobs and you're i get it you don't like that we're here but also you guys are up on the bridge you weren't actually even on his street you were like a full story above where he lived and and it's so bringing in money for the town yeah

bringing in money for the town also creating jobs i will never forget similar situation when when i was working in illinois and there was this guy who refused to get off his porch just wouldn't move and he'd been really nasty to a couple of the pas on the show and i was like well let me go talk to him like maybe he's also annoyed that we're like you know sending over these 22 year old kids to chat with him he's an older gentleman and i walked over and i just said hey sir i just i'm i'm the one in the scene tonight and i want to see you know what's going on and And can I, is there any information I can give you that maybe someone else hasn't given to you? And he goes, I didn't sign off on this.

And I didn't okay you to shoot the front of my house. And I said, well, we pulled a permit for the whole street. And that's something we do with the city. And it's something our location department manages. So it is legal. And just so you know, we're, you know, all the way at the other end of the block. We can't really even see your house. But, you know, in the shot, you kind of look like.

Do you want to be an actor? Yeah, you kind of look like a creepy ghost, just like silhouetted in these lights. at the back of the shot and it's a little unnerving to people and you know it would be cool if you wouldn't mind since we did work with the city if you could just not be on the porch and do us a favor because we've got 200 people out here shooting in the middle of the night and it's cold and he goes well i want 500 then and that's when i was like i'm gonna sophia's going to be right back and someone else is going to come talk to you for five minutes and i just went sir to put that in perspective our pas make 500 bucks a week so if you think they're

you who is standing here on the porch of a $4 million townhome in the wealthiest part of Chicago is going to get $500. Oh my God. In a suit, by the way, in like a really nice jacket. And I was like, if you think we're going to give you $500, when that is money that could go to one of the kids who can't afford a warm enough jacket on our set, you're out of your mind. And then he started screaming. And I was like, well, this has been really fun.

And see you later. See you later, Mr. We don't need to put all of this in our show, but man, oh man. Our show definitely didn't shoot in fancy pants neighborhoods. I think like Brooks' house and Nathan's house are in nice neighborhoods, but everything else is in downtown Wilmington, which is pretty, I mean, it's very diverse and certainly not anything, you know, highfalutin. They're older homes from like the 20s and 30s over where the bridge is. Well, in Wilmington's not a fancy town. That's part of why it's so charming and so special.

And overall, everyone seemed happy. Everyone seemed heavy, but it just goes to show that it definitely was a film town. because the honeymoon had worn off. They were like, we've had movies film in here for 20 years, kid. We're not impressed anymore. We've had John Travolta here.

You get out. You're not new. That's what I was. You're not John Travolta. Who are you crying on the bridge? Get out on here. Okay, well, let's move on to some storyline stuff. So we have just,

we have, okay, Lucas confronting Haley. And is this the first time we see the golf course on the roof or did we see that in the last episode? No, I feel like we saw it in the pilot. right oh in the pilot that's right but Lucas and Karen it gets bigger every time that we see it it was like they had fun building that one out with the Christmas lights and I know I wish we'd

gotten to be up there more it was so fun up there I don't know why they didn't continue to have us do a lot of work up there because it was such a good unique set I hadn't seen that in a TV well and it's not like bogeys could come up and throw weedwhackers at you on the roof it was a safe space. You weren't going to get chased around with lawn equipment? Someone coming after you with a trimming shear? Edge clippers. Oh my God. I don't

remember when that went away either because I do remember in later seasons filming up on that roof and there wasn't a mini golf course. And I remember some of us who never got to film on it were really sad when it left but I can't remember when that was. Yeah, I mean I went up there to throw water balloons with you

in season five, six. And there There wasn't a golf course up there. I wonder. We got cheated. That's what happened. We got cheated, damn it. Oh, yeah.

We got cheated. It's so weird watching this back all these years later because this is the one like character beat that my son who's never seen the show ever. Like this is the thing that Gus knows. He's like, Peyton Sawyer sits in her car and she cries and she runs red lights. And my son knows that about the character. Wow. And, you know, he's 11. That's just, you know, what is visible to someone who hasn't necessarily sat down and watched the show.

And I think this is the beginning of where I just, I got really uncomfortable on the show because Peyton became this, like, garbage bag for horrible things happening, right? But then never, ever went to therapy, never, like, really got help. And so it starts with, like, her mom dying, and then she's assaulted. And then there are other, you know, Ellie dies, and there's all these, like, very traumatic things happening to a child. And for me, over the years, a lot of people have come up, whether it's at, like, conventions or just on the street. And they said, I was going through this horrible thing and your character helped me process it. And I'm like, I want to feel responsible for that. And, like, great, yes, I'm so glad that our TV show could help you through it.

But also, I wish we had modeled a better response. I wish we had modeled, like, actually getting help because you don't just get better on your own. You don't just kiss a boy and wake up the next day and it's all fixed, you know? Like, there's, it's long-term trauma. And so I don't know, I hope that television now, you know, in 2021 is doing a better job of, like, making that acceptable, making it the norm. Peyton absolutely should have been in a therapist office. Absolutely. And Hill, I hear you on that.

It's like, it's really emotional for all of us when people say, you represented X and it helped me process Y. Like, that is a, that's an enormous responsibility that we don't take lightly. And it, and it can be kind of confusing to carry because on the one hand, you're like, I'm, I'm honored to have helped you shoulder that. And on the other, you're like, I don't know if we did this well enough. Yeah. But I will say, you know, in 2003, we weren't having conversations like we are now about mental health. Yeah.

And I think even the fact that the unsaid, you know, the generally unrepresented, the quote, unquote, bad or negative was even being given airtime, like that someone's suffering, that it struck me watching you play those scenes and how beautifully you did. and like, I just wanted to hug that little girl. Like, you just look like such a sweet baby, just crying in that car. And like, ugh, it broke my heart because you made it so clear that this kid was in the ocean of grief. And that's what grief is. It's so big.

It can feel unending. And it comes in waves. And I felt for you so much. And then, like, the camp counselor part of my brain was like, like, oh, no, we modeled running red lights for kids. Oh, my God, right? And when we were watching, yeah, and when the three of us were watching, guys, and this feels really important to highlight for all of you at home, we were all kind of

taken aback because what you don't see, obviously, in a show that's edited and made to make you have an emotional response. Yeah. Yeah. You don't see that on every one of those side streets, there were cop cars, barricades, lockups, PAs, like, we shut the streets down so that you could drive on an empty road through red lights. And for a visual.

Right, right. Yeah, just to drive the point home. It wasn't really, you know, they thought of it as a metaphor. Yeah. It hurts so bad. Don't do this at home. Right. Yeah.

And you weren't actually wildly running red lights. That was all set up. And it kind of hit us like, oh, God. Looking back, you go. well, what does that mean? God forbid we ever encouraged, you know, someone to do that. God forbid, like I said a couple episodes ago, I encouraged people to get naked in back seats.

Please don't do it. There's me having to make a joke because I'm feeling very emotional and uncomfortable right now. Yeah, but, babe, yeah. Just the weight of it at 21 years old is like, what am I responsible for? But you hit the nail on the head, Hillary, with saying that, because you have to have, characters have to have flaws. They have to have deep moments.

And, you know, that's what people loved about the show. was that they were just feeling their feelings and going through it. But the fact that we didn't model taking care of your mental health of Peyton sitting down with a therapist and somebody walking her through that grief. And the idea for me of my daughter being that age and feeling so much grief that she would put her life in that kind of danger to just like I'm that I'm forklumped.

I can't. I don't know how to process this. But, you know, it's heavy for a teen show. I mean, it started off about, like, basketball, you know? And so I think also part of the reason I have since then portrayed myself as such a goober when I'm being Hillary Burton is because Peyton Sawyer was so dark and so, so anguished and sad that I felt like I had to overcompensate. You know, in real life, in doing interviews. Even now, I'm always the first person to be like, okay, this feels like a lot. Let's get out of this.

Because I was scared of that, like you said, Sophia, that ocean of grief. I certainly have lost people in real life. I know the people I was thinking about when we filmed these things. And yeah, it's heavy. We also talked about when we watched the episode back how Craig Schaeffer dealt with this very same thing of doing a risky behavior in a production in the program. How old were we? Were we in middle school when that came out? We were young.

I think so. We were really young. I didn't even see it until years. I mean, it was like an old movie. I've never seen the program. Oh, man. It's beautiful. Well, tell us.

It's about a high school football team. Okay. Right? And I just remember being all over the news. The news was saturated with it because in the movie, these boys had laid down on the road as like a dare or something. And some kids emulated that and were killed in real life. And I remember thinking about it, like when we were doing the running the red light thing, just like, oh, God. Like, this is, I wish I'd talked to Craig about it.

Oh, yeah. Well, they didn't have the placards back then that would come up before the show. You know, this episode is triggering, deals with trauma. You know, please don't emulate the things, characters, blah, blah, blah, blah. All that stuff that comes up now. We weren't doing that back then. So, yeah, you were right to be nervous. I think the program might have been one of the reasons that shows started to say,

we did this with stunt drivers and on closed sets. Wow. Those placards came up because, you know, people used to see something and go, oh, they just went out and did that. Now we have a lot more transparency behind how productions work. And even to the point of the conversation, there's more transparency behind and around mental health, around, I mean, the fact that we can even speak about trauma now. We weren't doing that 20 years ago. It was very brown paper bag bottom shelf. And I'm so relieved that we live in a time and in a moment where people are being met where they are and where vulnerability is understood to be a strength.

Thank you, Bray Brown. Not that you're listening, but if you are, we love you. Love you. You know what I loved is that Peyton did get therapy of sorts by talking with Whitey so much in this episode. And that grandfatherly figure that, again, we said, you know, wow, could never happen. You could never have an older male coach spending any time alone with the young female student. It would just be wildly inappropriate. And in most cases it is.

But I think with the, we're on a show and it's all romanticized in a way. With the right chemistry, it is loving, you know, the way he talks. I think it's the, because Whitey's talking about Camilla, it's very safe. cuts the creep factor out that might exist in other productions. Whitey so dearly loves his wife and misses her in the same way Peyton misses her mother. And having a grandfatherly figure, like a male figure who is positive in her life, I think, was also really important. It also shows how unmoored she is, though, that she doesn't have a mom, she doesn't have a dad, she doesn't have a grandma or a grandpa or anybody. She's got to go to the high school basketball coach.

Like this dude, she doesn't know. Without saying any of that, it speaks volumes. Yeah. And it was such a beautiful, I think, choice in the story arc of the episode to have Whitey stand in for her dad, you know. And in a way, it felt at least as a viewer, like Peyton probably hadn't been able to really process the loss of her mom with her father,

but being able to be with Whitey who'd also lost his wife, they could share in it. And sometimes it is a little easier to be more vulnerable with someone who's not quite as close to you. And him being that fatherly figure in the episode, there's so much of this kind of mirroring

of father figures in this one with Whitey. Yeah, God, you're making a great point. With Craig, you know, with Keith for Lucas. I mean, him saying, Lucas having this question about whether or not he's going to change his name because of what it represents because of Dan Scott. And Keith reminds Lucas that it's his name too. And that it's a thing they share and that family can be who you choose. I mean, it's so beautiful.

And so you get those two kind of being the best of it. And then you get Dan Scott being absolute, like, just pigish worst. Oh, I mean, him on the basketball court. It's a different kind of mental problem, you know, like the grief and the anguish or one thing. And then that, you know, that, that ego. The ego and the obsession with the glory days can really be so toxic. Like, you get great masculinity in Whitey and in Keith and you get true toxic masculinity in Dan Scott.

I love being able to see the both of them, too. The two of Paul and Barbara in that scene where he's talking about the glory days was probably one of my favorite scenes of the episode because you see why she loved him. He's fun. You can see why she will hate him. Like it's a microcosm of the whole show in that one scene. And it also kind of foreshadows all the problems that the Scott boys have in their future relationships. Yeah. I mean, that moment, the foreshadowing when she and Barbara played it so beautifully because she didn't freak out, you just see it land. And she takes a half a breath and says better than, I mean, I don't remember the exact line, but essentially better than now, better than knowing me, knowing your son. And you just go, and he says, oh, it was different.

After that pause, that pregnant pause. oh god joy you'd stab him honestly what would you do if your partner said that man apparently i slammed doors that's my thing i would yeah every door in the house would be off its hinges oh my god yeah no i would i would leave the room and probably never go back i don't know that i could handle that see everyone assumes i'd scream and yell because brook davis was a good yeller. She could throw it. She could throw a thing really well. I just get really quiet. And the more quiet I get, the more trouble you're in. Yeah. I'm in the same way. And it's like, okay. I'm just going to go for a walk. There will be poison in your coffee in the morning. You'll wake up with no

eyebrows and know that you did it to yourself. It's such a good mom tool, by the way. Yeah, the quieter I get, the more Maria's like, what, what, mom, mom, what? Poor baby. Oh, man. Guys, can we just love on Deb? Just more? I love her. Yeah.

Such a boss. Being a boss and a baddie. Deb Scott, I think, is the only mom who also wore juicy couture track suits. Uh-huh. In fancy velour, like we did girls. When she comes on in this episode and that red juicy outfit, we all started screaming. Are we bringing? them back. I mean, I'm not opposed. I'm not opposed to it. I love a track suit. You have to wear them

with us. And the spaghetti strap, tank top underneath. Yeah. Yeah. Um, well, should we, we have, uh, we have an exciting guest today, um, who can talk to us a lot more about that juicy track suit. There might be someone we all have a crush on. Get her in here. Get her in here. Bring me some It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with us, who with. Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Where's Barbara Allen Woods?

Barbara! Dain, da, ding, da, ding, da, da, da, da, da, Barbara, can you hear me? There she is! There you are! Hi! You look beautiful, Barbara! You're so beautiful, you don't age.

Holy smokes! Hi, Gory! gorgeous. Hi. Hi. We miss you. Are you calling us from a trailer? Are you on set today? What's going on? Where are you? Oh no. I knew this was going to happen. Hi. Hi. We love you so much. Where are you? Um, okay, so this is the first day ever, I think, that I've sent my daughter off to work alone. Um, she's working. I'm not working today because, of you guys. Thank you so much. No, I'm not working today. Well, I'm working.

I'm doing this. This is a better game. This is fun. Wait, where are you guys? What are you working on? So I'm in Toronto with Allie and we're working on a show together. Tell us everything about the show. We'll get back into a one-re-law, but I want to know what's going on right now. So, Hillary, you know this about us. Maybe you all do.

But, you know, our family is way into like horror, the horror genre, horror or anything. And this opportunity came up for Allie to do this show, Chucky. Yes. And so it's based on the puppet, the doll, Chuckie. And it's, you know, about his origin story. And she plays the mean girl, which she's never done. And she was thrilled to do.

And then when she was cast, the producers came to me and said, you know, hey, you know, we need the mean mom. And do you want to play her mom? And so, yeah, we've been in Toronto since March. And we're doing a show together. That is such a dream gig. What a dream. And I'm playing the mayor. I love it.

Which is so full circle. Yeah, Deb should have been the mayor. Deb should have always been the mayor. Oh, yes. Why did that not happen? Yeah. Yeah, so we're having a great time. Oh, my gosh.

I can't believe that Olivia's old enough to be working because one of my favorite, favorite memories of Barbara on the show was in my last season. And I knew that I was cut now. and Barbara asked me to drive her to a doctor's appointment while she was pregnant with Olivia to get her amnio done. And so they, like, did the whole scan of the belly and, like, you were so intrigued. You were so into it. I wanted that.

You had a lot of questions. You had a lot of questions. Yeah. It was so special. I felt really honored that you asked me to, like, drive you. And it was such a cool thing because I'd never seen a doctor's appointment. I didn't ask you to drive me. I wanted you to be there with me.

And it was bonding. It was bonding for us. It was a really special experience. And so then when I got pregnant like six months later, I called, I like sent Barbara a message. I was like, hey, I have a friend who's having a baby. And we're sitting in a doctor. And you were like, well, you can tell your friend. Yeah.

Yeah, it was, it wasn't slick. but it was just such a special it was such a special memory and so to see all of your girls taking over all of television is just insane it's so cool they're the new generation yeah they are they are who you guys were during one tree hill and that's why i feel like this is such great timing for me because you know they're going through a lot of the things that i've been listening to your i'm so proud of all of you I love the podcast and I'm learning even more about you guys and the fact that you went through so much and that you were all the picture of confidence. Never once did I ever realize you were having any self-doubt at all even for a second. Wow. And that makes me sad in a way because I feel like if I could go back, I would have my doors were always open, but I would have said to all of you, please come to me. You know, I've been around for a while. Please come to me for a bit. you didn't seem like you needed any advice. Yeah, that, I mean, that's just sort of our makeup

individually as people. We were, you know, we really wanted to have it all together. And we didn't want anybody to know that we were struggling. And maybe different girls would have. But I, I know each of us individually were, we were all a little stubborn in our own ways and probably just didn't want to. I just didn't want to admit that we didn't know what to do. But your door was always open, Barbara. I mean, you were the mom that none of us had down there in that environment. you, I mean, my God, you helped me put my cat down. I remember you came over that day and you were there with me when I had to put my cat down. And I was like, who do I want with me? And I remembered, it was just so clear. I need, I need mom. I need Barbara. And you, you were that for us in every way. So,

no, please don't think that we didn't come to you for any reason that we didn't feel comfortable with you. It was totally just us needing to, I don't know, feel like we were taking care of everything. Remember, we were adults, guys. We were totally great. Oh, you were. And now I see my daughters being adults, but they're your age. And I know they must be going through that same, you know, growing up experience of being alone for the first time. And, you know, I have a, and gossip girl. Emily's doing gossip girl. How crazy is that? That's so insane. Talk about full circle. So she's doing the first season. And I compare it to the first season of One Tree Hill. I mean, it's pretty crazy how life comes round, you know. Do you feel like it's different? for these kids now than it was for us, you know, 18 years ago? No, I don't think it's different.

In terms of just growing up in general, I don't think it's different. But first of all, she's on HBO. And so, you know, that can be a little scary. When she booked the job, she was 17 and she thought, oh, who, it was like, HBO, yeah, HBO can be a little scary. You know, it's gossip girls. So it's going to be a lot of, you know, risking stuff. Yeah.

And, but she was 17. She said, oh, no problem because they can't have me do anything anyway. Well, then it had quarantine happened. And the show got pushed. And so when she started working, she was 18. Oh, man. Okay. That's hard to figure out what your boundaries are going to be and what you want to allow, you know,

out there in the public in terms of your body or what situations you want to put yourself in as an actress. And it's different for everyone. But it's hard to figure that stuff out when you're young, young woman. And I've told her stories about you guys and your, you know, your questions and don't be, don't ever be afraid to question. And, you know, I'm glad that she has me to turn to, but it's also gives me the responsibility of giving her the correct advice, you know, so yeah, it's some, it's tough for young women. You have always done that for people, though. And it strikes all of us,

you know, I mean, we, we were saying on our last recording that we're basically just the Barbara Ellen Woods fan club because all we're doing is vaunting over you in these episodes and we I think it struck all of us in our own way that we know you to be that woman in life but we forgot because none of us remembers 2003 my god we forgot what you were doing on screen and and the way that you play deb it just feels clear that you brought yourself and and your barb heart to her because she's so wise and she holds lines for people and does it with tenderness and and you challenge people to be better and and it I don't know you're able to do so much with her and we're just we're obsessed with you thank you for that and I say all of that in season one and then she sort of had a

downward spiral was such a crazy arc I loved so fun So fun. Well, we want to talk. So let's talk a little bit about, first of all, how you got the role of Deb? Was it just a random audition? Was it? Did you know it? I mean, like, how did that come about? And then also, once you were into the part and you had to be, okay, so she's the breadwinner. She's clearly feminist and in charge of so much in her life and her family's life. And yet, balancing this egomaniacal husband who's a giant man child and you've got a teenage boy and you're like a whole. holding everyone's emotions and trying to manage so much. I mean, what was that like? Just tell us about this experience of becoming down. Okay. So I don't even know if I've ever shared this story, but I was, Emily was one. So I have three girls. Emily's the middle and she was one. I was still nursing her. I was working on a show called American Dreams and NBC. And I had a nice little recurring role. It was perfect because I wanted to be a mom. This was my lifelong dream. I mean, I had tunnel vision when it came to my career, but being mom was number one by far.

And so I was recurring on, it was perfect, perfect blend of being a mom. And I was still nursing. And when I nurse, man, I mean, you guys have seen me. It's not a pretty sight. I mean, it's like it's like double you ask. Well, like cover of jugs magazine, you know, like pornographic. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

So I'm nursing. And I refused to pump because I think that was my excuse to never be away from the baby. So I would have someone bring the baby to the set and everything. So it was a lot of work. And the last thing I wanted was a full-time gig. But then this audition came up for one tree hill. And I said, I don't have time. I'm working and I don't have time.

And then I started reading it over lunch and fell in love with this beautifully written monologue for this character. And I couldn't let it go. And it was just, you know, with the casting director being put on tape because the show was already airing. And they were going to bring in this character for this small arc. There's no way I could travel. You know, they're like, I'm going to do it. I'm just going to go in and do it. And I just couldn't get Deb out of my mind.

I had not even seen the entire script. I just knew that it was beautifully written this character. And then I heard that I was in the mix, which means being considered. Then I heard that they were going local for the role. Oh, interesting. And I was pissed. And I said, I told my agent that I'm going to find a relative who lives near North Carolina and I'm going to be a local. And she said, you know, you can't, you know, you can't.

I said, no, I'm doing it. I'm going to do that. And I found a cousin who I'd never met. What? Gave Barbara. Gave them my address and said this is where I'm local. I was within, I think it's 250 miles or something. I don't know, something crazy.

But I, you know, I had the address. And they set up a meeting with Paul on the weekend, and it was just me. And I came in, I read it. And it was instant connection. And so they hired me as a guest star local. Oh, my gosh. A couple episodes. And the Fincanons, you remember the case, of course.

They were amazing. And they, you know, helped me out. I think they put me up even though I was a local. Anybody who doesn't know the Fincanons were our local casting directors who, like, were basically situated right there at the studio. Yeah. On the lot. Yeah.

And so, yeah, I mean, the rest of history then, you know, they ended up keeping the character around. But, yeah, so I love telling actors this story because, you know, if you know something and instinctually you're thinking this is your thing, just go for it and do what you need to do. So, yeah, that's what happened. And then they ended up making her a regular. It's so cool to me how, you know, Deb is clearly a confident woman.

But then there's also this. really sexy element between her and Dan in this episode, because it would be so easy to show like a combative thing. Like he's so loathsome that for his wife to come in and be affectionate with him, but also hold him accountable. It's just a really nice duality that not everybody could have pulled off, Barbara. Like, you handled that. Yeah. You know, you see, like I said, the spiral of not only Deb, but their relationship, I think she does figure out who he truly is, but, you know, also the, you know,

the parallel of the way Nathan treats his girls. Yeah. You know, there's so many parallels in the show. And I maybe am only seeing them for the first time watching the show now. But I think some of that had to do with Paul and I just getting along really well, too. I mean, it was easy for me to bring that warmth,

because I really liked Paul. Yeah. And he made me laugh. And I think Dan made Deb laugh. And they had history. And, you know, he was lovable. Yeah, that was the thing. I was wondering, at one point we were watching, and I said, why did she marry this guy? Ugh.

Yeah. But, you know, when you see him being tender with Deb in the moment about basketball, then it goes south. But, you know, you could see a little hint of that. And he's cute. of course I'm not even sure I knew how cute he was then I mean I know he was always good looking

but I'm watching it now going you're cute super cute that power oh my God he was the diet Coke man come on oh my god oh my God you know what struck me Joy when you asked that question

it kind of lit up for me in that scene before he ruins it and you know says it was different but when he's talking about his athleticism and giving us the window into why it matters so much to Dan and he talks about what it felt like and how you know everything would be quiet and it was just the court and he says I wish you could have seen it something in my brain was like ding ding ding and it reminded me of in the last episode when you go to see Karen at the cafe and you say I know that's your story but it doesn't have to be ours I feel like dead

Debb existed in this pocket right after Dan's kind of glory days, but also some of the harm he did. And there's a tenderness between Deb and Dan that no one else has with him. And you claim it, but you do it really gently. And it allows for this romance and it allows for you to find him funny. And then when you kind of throw the gauntlet down, you do it embodied as Deb in this way that is so firm, but it's gentle. And it's like some real acrobatics. And I wonder if maybe that slight difference in timing just gave her a different experience with him than anybody else had. Did they tell you what Deb's backstory was? Yeah, no. No. I don't know. I think I made up a

backstory. And I think Paul and I talk about it. You know, it's great working with him because we were always talking about things like that. But I don't even know, to this day, if I really know, the math of where Karen stopped and where Deb took over. I don't know if it was an overlap. I don't know if she was a rebound. I'm not even sure about that. I mean, there was something that Karen found attractive in him too.

And she even seems a lot more level-headed and intelligent than Deb. So what is it with intelligent women who fall into men like this? Isn't that the truth? We've all done it. We've all done it. I mean, yeah, I should not be throwing stones. I'm in a glass house. Well, Peyton with Nathan, we're all watching, saying, you know, why, why?

Get out of there, you know, quick, run. And, you know, who knows, the heart wants what the heart wants. Well, it's also, I guess I'm realizing, too, that Dan has never been in this situation with Lucas, that whole thing is a new threat for him. So maybe this is like a part of him that's coming out that nobody's really seen a lot of before because he's never been in this scenario before. Am I crazy? I feel like I was told that Deb came from money.

And so she was so much more powerful and her family was more powerful than Dan. And it was her family that bankrolled the dealership. Did that end up like becoming? Yes, I think that was part of it. I think you're right. Because I'm watching this like girlfriends in charge. Like, yes. Her daddy is like the boss.

So Dan married Deb from money. Not even for money, but the allure of like being with a made girl, you know, like Dan, I can see how that would put him in his place. Because you present yourself like a girl who knows exactly who she is and always has. And I'm sure freshman year in college, that was Foxy. And maybe the antithesis to who Karen was at the time. Yeah. You know, you know. Yeah.

And which makes her back to her spiral even more interesting that she started out as strong as she was. And even I forgot, you know, that many seasons later watching it now keep pointing to the television because this is where I was watching it. Yeah, I had forgotten how strong she was. I'm like, oh, what happened to you? And, you know, even later on she, oh, I'm not supposed to talk about later on, am I? Well, anyway, we do what we want. We do what we want here. Yeah, yeah.

We'll just, we'll have you back later on and talk about it. Okay. All right. Good. Okay. What was your relationship with James like playing his mom? He was 17. Oh, my gosh. I instantly loved him. He was just a sweetheart. And what I really, and I tell this story a lot, too. What I loved about James is he was not afraid to ask questions. Yes. He was new. And, you know, he wasn't even that new by the time I was working with him. He had already done the pilot in a few episodes. But if anything came up, he had questions. And look at him. him now. You know, it was all about learning, you know, camera work. Why are we doing this? Why are you putting that light there? He was always asking questions and came to work so prepared and was so respectful. And even sometimes had a hard time joking around with me because he was so respectful. And I was like his mom, you know, and, you know, he had to talk to me like his mom. And he was so sweet.

yeah he was 17 right yeah he was little 17 and remember i love the story because when i he's so tall and when i hugged him and sometimes i'm a touchy person and i would touch his chest like my baby you know my baby and the network gave me a note called my agent and said we want her to stop touching his chest it's because it just seems a little bit too close for a mom like god oh my god my son I have my son in a headlock at all times. Oh, yeah. Just like for Deb to be touching like his chest. Like, oh, my God.

I'm so sorry if I crossed a line, but man. All that makes me think of whoever at the network gave that note. I go, were you never hugged as a child? Yeah. Are you okay? Well, remember, they must only touch men in a sexual way. They recast the guy that played my dad season one because they were like, you two are too flirty.

And I was like, what? I mean, okay, but So that was something that was really on their radar, I guess. Yeah, I guess so. Well, maybe, because they were all inviting us out to bars. That's often, yeah, that's probably exactly why. You often see what you do, not what exists, you know what I mean?

Yeah, yes, yes. It's a too sorry to you. Gross. I was afraid to go near him after that, you know, I don't want to go too close. That's terrible. I know. What a terrible thing for an actor. You want to be so free

and be able to just be and explore and touch and be tangible and you were such a you were such a mom behind the scenes as well and I love, love that you always had your girls in the trailer. Your girls were in the hair makeup trailer from the time they were toddlers which is probably why they're so good at what they do now because they grew up.

It's why they wanted to do what they do now and I don't know if that's good or bad but that's, you know, this is fun. I want to do this. They've worked with so many of us on other projects, too. Like, I worked with Emily on Secret Life of Bees. Yeah. Which one of the girls did the movie with Chad?

Emily. Emily did. Emily did. Allie just did a movie with Austin. Oh, cool. Wow. That's so cool. Right at the end of quarantine, they worked together.

I never worked with Austin, so I got to know him during that movie. Cheryl Lee. Cheryl Lee played Emily's grandmother. There you go. That's a weird and full circle. Wow. And Cheryl and I were just like the entire time.

Emily's like, do you mind? Can I get to know her too? You know, we were just like the entire time. Yeah, I was trying to think on Allie worked with Jackson. What? No way. Yeah, like three years on a show. They were, Allie was recurring and he was regular.

And so we saw his family all the time. Peter Kowalski. was Natalie's DP on a Marvel show. I mean, we've had so many crossovers. Yeah. I remember Emily coming. Well, I remember Natalie coming in the trailer and with the first, you know,

she would just come in with her giant brown eyes and her freckles and their cute little blonde hair and she would just smile at you with this beautiful beaming smile and her face was like a sunflower. It was just like sun, the sunlight. I just loved looking at her face looking up at us. And then Emily would come in with her husky,

her voice. It's like, two-year-old. She had a Sophia voice as a baby. I know. I loved it. I was like, are you mine? Come sit with me. Yes, I love it. It was so fun for us, too, Barbara, that energy, because you're right.

We, you know, we were all out there, and we were little kids who thought we were supposed to be grown-ups, and when you would come in with the kids and we'd all be in the trailer in the mornings, it really felt like family. It felt like home. Like, to be sitting, you know, having JoJo do hair and holding one of your kids in our laps and chatting, it was like, it was the most kind of, yeah, it was the most wholesome, like, safe. There was such a, it was such a gift to have your family on set that way with you. Oh, that means so much. Truly.

Yeah. You know, when I watch the show, it brings back so many memories of doing the show. It was such a happy time in my life, you know, hopefully the best is yet to come. Who knows? But that decade, I mean, was just the happiest time, possibly the happiest. And it was because I was on a show I loved with people I love and a character I loved. And then also having my little kids living on the beach, Ritesful Beach, there's nothing better than Ritesful Beach. It was just happy.

I felt like, I must have done something good. Yes. Somewhere in my Wicked Childhood, Sound of Music. Sound of music. Yes. Somewhere in my wicked childhood. I must have done something good. Yeah.

Bringing back the musicals, I watch your podcast. And we watched Sound of Music during the hurricane when we all had to hunker down in hotel rooms. We watched Sound of Music over and over. And that's all we did. We watched Sound of Music. Maria's school is doing that. That's their next play.

Is it? No. I'm like, can I take the role of Maria away from a high school student? Could I try it? Do it. If you need a baroness, let us know. I love it. Is she going to be in it?

Barbara, you would be such a good baroness. A baronet. Oh, she's going to audition. Who does she want to be? She doesn't know yet. We're going to watch the movie and see. I mean, she's, she, it's a school-wide production. So they are going to have, you know, all through high school through kindergarten.

So I guess she's 10. Does that make her, she's too old for Gretel? Luisa. Luisa. Luisa. Yeah, Louisa. Yeah. Brigita, Luisza.

She's the one that sticks the frog on the chair, I think. Yeah. Yes, yes. Everyone at home's like, what? And Sophia's like, you guys in your musical talk. No, you want to know what's funny is I'm like, yeah, we did sound of music when I was in high school and I did props. Oh, but you're so organized, me. Oh, man. You did everything, Sophia. I love, I love props. They're still my very favorite thing to do. Hey, where did you hang out in Wilmington? Because you were out at the beach predominantly, right? Yeah, we stayed at the beach the entire time. We ended up.

when we looked like we were going to be around for a while, we bought a house in landfall. Oh, cool. Which is also the beach. But the first few years, we were renting a house on the beach, you know, our own,

I think it was like $2,500 a month or something crazy. I mean, I mean, that's cheap for being on the beach. And, you know, that was like our backyard. You know, the kids could just run out and run through those, the brush and the white sand.

And it was just, it was heaven, you know? It was, you couldn't ask for more. Do you have advice for young women? I mean, you must because you have raised three young women in this industry. And for young artists that are up and coming or, you know, even girls who are successful in this business, you know, what are some things that you've experienced and that you feel like, oh, man, I wish I had known this when I was starting out.

Tracts that you saw us fall into, I don't know. I mean, I do wish that I had had someone, you know, I wish I had some, you know, some sort of mentor, I guess. I had to figure it out myself. But, you know, it's just so important to keep, I don't know if you can tell a kid this, keep your head on straight, but, you know, to have a solid family, you know, to have a life other than this passion that you have, to celebrate every holiday no matter what, you know, keep the things that are, you know, important and things that are tangible, things that you can rely on, you know, make sure that you stay close with your family, no matter what, your close friends, just so that it's not the only important thing in your life.

And that's what I've, you know, what I've done with my kids is just always, you know, no matter how passionate you feel about your career, there are other things too. And so that when it doesn't go your way, you still have these other things. I mean, that sounds pretty basic and cliche. It's not always easy. You know, when you're driven, when you just want something so badly, that's all you can see. You can't see straight. Well, I think especially in a business where what you do can be mistaken for who you are.

Oh, yeah. When you're a performer, you are embodying someone, but it's not you. And it's so important, I think, for artists to understand that there's who you are and there's what you do. Right. Exactly. And it's hard in this business, I think, especially when you're young to separate those things. And, you know, if you're the kind of young people. It's hard either way. Yeah. And if you're the kind of young girls we were where we were scared to admit there were things we didn't know because we thought we'd get in trouble. Yeah. Yeah. It's important. Oh, yeah. I wish we'd all been better at crawling into your into your open door and just cuddle puddling with you. I wish. I wish.

It's good advice for any profession, though. I mean, having your touchstones that exist outside of work. Barb, I know, like, you know, you and I are friends on social media. I think are we Facebook friends, too. I feel like I've seen you go back to your high school. And we've talked about, like, your hometown. What was, like, what was your high school experience? Who were you at 16, 17 years old?

I was like everything. Yeah, you were. I think I at the end, you know, most likely to you guys are doing, I think I was most likely to do everything, like some stupid award that I got at the end of year. And I was, you know, a cheerleader and student council and theater and tennis. And I mean, I would just try to squeeze in as much as I possibly could. And it was a great experience. And, you know, my kids don't go to school and sometimes I don't want to use the word regret but I wonder you know what their experience would have been I mean they're they're experiencing other things that are amazing but

sometimes I get a little sad that they're not experiencing the high school experience the college experience um but that's who I was I was one tree hill yeah you were that is so cool yeah you were like a mix of all the characters you were Brett Haley and Peyton yeah it just But then you were doing theater in Chicago, right? How'd you get involved in that? I entered the Miss Teen Illinois Pagent. Yes, she did. Barbara, where are these pictures, please?

I need these photos. Oh, I have them. Yes, I do have them. And I won the talent portion. And one of the judges was an agent in Chicago. And so I signed with her, and I started doing, you know, commercials and little roles and a lot of theater in Chicago. And stayed there for a while.

And then I went to Northern Illinois, but I would still audition in Chicago. I would go back. I wanted to go to a college where I could still audition in the big city. And so I did that for a while. And then I moved out to L.A. Oh, my God. And the theater scene is so good there and all the improv. Did you get into any of that stuff?

I did Second City. Oh, you're so cool. That's why you were so good at all the comedic stuff. To this day. And I was wondering, Joy, if you feel the same because, well, all of you, all of you infuse comedy into things. And that's why I love that. I love taking any role and just trying to find the comedy in it or the lightness of it. Because that's life. And so people can relate to it. And I, you know, I'm watching Deb at the beginning. She wasn't, she was pretty heavy. You know, there wasn't a whole lot

of comedy. And hopefully after I, you know, got to know the writers a little bit more, they thought, you know, oh, we can maybe make her a little goofier. And she's gained. And you got there. And I like, it so much more did you ask for that did you ever ask them to to light her up or to give you comedy i think i just told them how much i loved it positive reinforcement you know if something came in with a little bit of comedy i would say oh i love this love this love this i didn't you know i wasn't a complainer i complained about my wardrobe a lot and i it wasn't it wasn't it wasn't a appreciated that I ever had anything negative to say. But I wasn't letting up on that wardrobe. Like my pleaded tan pants that, you know, at the time, you guys were all wearing like those

low right. They were so cute. At the time, I was like, you know, like mom. You were in mom Caprize. Yeah. And Taylor like pressed. And here we are watching the episode. And I'm like, where are the top of our pants? They owe us eight inches of fabric. Just pull them up. It's so cute though. You guys could pull it off. It was so cute. They really did. They treated parents on TV very differently than they do now. There was kind of this like unsexy, let's dump you down.

And you had had Nathan when you were like 18 years old. So you were a young mom. You're playing like 35 years old, which is younger than we are now, you know? So the idea of like, like if someone put me in tan slacks, I'd be mortified. it was very beige um you know i spent my entire adult life being on y a projects when i'm not a y a and i just feel this responsibility i don't want kids to fast forward through the adult roles you know like through the adult scenes i want them to find the adults just as interesting and you don't want to be the stereotypical parent ever it's just boring yeah and i want flaws and i want you know

dimension and and where does this idea that moms are somehow sterile where does that come from like you're a hot mom word i'm into it you're all hot moms oh my god sophia and the three hot moms that's this episode yeah hi ladies like i it's like but like i i appreciate knowing that you don't have to lose yourself or your romance or your fire or your humor because you're right back then they kind of wanted these parents to just be these you know tent poles of advice and then they'd like scuttle off the side and and you really you rested your humanity and and and your femininity back from those khaki pants. Also I think the show needed a Karen. You know Karen Roe, not a Karen, but what Karen has been ruined, but there was already a Karen row. I mean, let's find

something else, you know, let's, let's, let's flaw her up a bit, Deb. And, you know, eventually they figured it out. You know, you didn't need two parents like that. Yeah. And I loved her at the beginning, but I loved her a lot more later on. Yeah, what was your favorite? We can talk about stuff coming up. What was your favorite, favorite Deb shenanigan? I loved all of those. the War of the Roses with Dan. I loved all the pranks. That was by far my favorite. Karen and I, Moira and I, had a night on the billboard on top of the billboard.

Oh, that's right. Painting a mustache on Dan. And that was... In the cat suit? Oh, my God. That was possibly... I think it was a juicy suit. Yes.

Oh, yeah. That's what we're going to send out this year as rap gift. for the podcast. Just juicy suits to everybody. Yes. We'll hunt them down on eBay. I have them all of mine. You do? Oh, I have green, wine, black, white. The wine. And my girls are stealing them all the time. But do you remember the store, Oliver? Oh, yes. Yes. Okay. This is a store in Wilmington. Yes. And this is what I did. I would shop there. I would put things on hold. And I told them when our wardrobe person would come in shopping for characters. to push them in her face, in their face, in her face.

You're so smart. Barbara was in here and these are the things she really loves. That's genius. So smart. But surely she started picking up a few things. And I remember being told, you've got to let, you know, you've got to let the whole wardrobe thing go. But unfortunately, that is some high-level thinking.

Basically, it starts with wardrobe and your look and your hair. I mean, basically, when people are watching, that's what they see. Um, did you have hair wars too? Did you have words over your hair, the stylet? I did. We all had hair wars. That was a massive thing. That's the name of our memoir.

Hair wars. I always have hair wars. I am actually pretty happy to hear that you guys had them too because I had a lot of them. Oh, yeah, they were. Yeah, one, it came from the, the, we were always told it came from the network, but didn't. I know. Did it? We question everything now.

No, I think there was maybe one or two people. particular that just had an idea of what they wanted women to look like or girls to look like or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. I also put my hair up a couple times and that was next pretty quick. I feel like I recall there being an episode, if I'm remembering correctly, where you had your hair in a ponytail and a hot tub and you looked great. Oh, hot tub. It's a dangerous dad. It's all I'm saying. You look great with your hair up. That was with Antoine. which is my favorite Deb storyline. So, guys, my dog is like barfing on the rug

and my child is running through and I'm just like, this is what being a working mom is about. Barbara taught us how to do this. You just smile and you power through. That's what we're going to do. So, yeah. No, Antoine and Deb was my favorite chunk of time on the show because I thought it was the right amount of naughty.

But also, like, really endearing because you two were cute together. You're still cute together. And his... The comedy was right there, man. You guys just let each other up. So he's so good. And his bark is so much worse than his bite.

Yeah. Just you wait, girl, like, yeah, really? And that's what we got to bed. He would be kind of nervous. Oh, you know. I had one dress that they rigged because he had to do it do, and like, undo my dress in front.

And so they had to rig it up. because it was in the script you know and um i was showing him how it works he's like oh you know okay that's fine you know we'll just do it like what happened to the antoine i know like so respectful and i was i think three weeks after having alley um wow i was in the the pool with my hair up and nursing and topless oh my god barb and wow you're superwoman covering covering like this with Antoine and he was so sweet and I was afraid I was going to get like

I'm sorry this is team my like it's not no wait not on this show you're like I was lactating in the pool I was going to get milk in the pool but he's a dad so he got it he was so sweet you know like and then he was hugging me and he's like oh gotcha I gotcha girl like no one's going to see anything and he was so I love him so much he's so good right after I gave birth to George

I did a movie with Antoine it was like like, I don't know, two months later, and I was at that point where like the baby's not sleeping and I also have to be on set and I'm losing my mind. And Antoine would come over to my apartment and just rock my baby. Like he knows how to do it with one arm in a way that like the child falls asleep like that man. Yeah. Yeah, he's got good dad energy. He's a good dad. He's a good. Antoine's like, I remember I was dealing with like boy drama and I remember calling him and he would set on the phone with me for like two hours and just talk me through it and here's what you do and here's what you said, well, what happened and like my little therapist. Oh, I love him. You got to kiss all the cute

boys on the show because you also ended up kissing Craig at some point, right? I was hoping for two seconds. I thought maybe we were going to end up together and never happened. Oh, that would have been good. And I did know that you had a crush on him, Joy. And I did know that. You did know. I didn't think you ever told me. Maybe you did, but I don't think you did. I just knew. It's probably because I was just fawning over him all the time. Like, staring longingly across the wrist. I was hoping, I was hoping, but it never happened.

Barb, we get some of these deep thought questions that we are supposed to answer, but I want to know some of yours. One of them was like, if you have a friend coming to town, what experience at Wilmington would you tell them like you cannot miss this? Indochene. Oh my God. I love it.

Yes. Is it still open? That garden. It's still there. So right before, quarantine um we there was a convention there yeah i don't remember if we were all we were all there together i don't i don't remember but it was in raleigh i think but anyway i went to wilmington and i spent my birthday in wilmington and everybody took me out to indesheen and it's so good it's still good it's still amazing but you know obviously the beach the beach is like no other yeah i mean there's something special about going to the beach going to ritesville beach and hanging um that east coast beach is so

warm so much so great and you know all of my best friends are still there i accumulated best friends and kept them to this day um we're in toronto and we're driving back we're actually going to stop in um in wellmington on the way back yeah yeah and so where's going back to where are you guys yeah yeah yeah wait how long are you going to be in toronto we're here till mid-august oh i get there in october you do yeah passing in the night Just, whoop, so close. Okay, I have a great place I'm staying. I should tell you about it.

Perfect. Yeah, hold it. This is why our club remains because we have spiderwebbed from Wilmington all across North America and even further. That's right. Sweet. Okay. So the girls are taking over television. You and Olivia are working on a show right now.

What do you think is the reason with all this. new content out there people are still drawn to the show you know it's funny i'm watching it now for the first time with alley who's 13 and she said just last night she said i miss shows where people just talk to each other it's a relationship show and there are no you know special effects or big car chases or you know she said i just like why watching these people talk to each other. Wow. For a 13-year-old to say that.

And I said, you know, you don't have to watch this. She said, no, I'm, last night when I went to bed, I could hear that she was watching it in her bedroom as she was going to sleep. And that made me feel so good. Little does she know what I do later on in the episode. Oh, my God. I know. And there's binge watching now, so it's not like she's going to have to wait three years to see.

She's going to come downstairs to breakfast one morning and you'll know. yeah um it's just character driven you know and that's what drew me to the show to begin at the beginning it's just you know it's just all about the characters yeah and you know just so all of them so well-rounded and i don't know it's hard to find shows like that these days it really is we need to write one yeah barb i want to work together again listen guys i was doing this christmas movie in Louisiana and we had to last second we had to like get somebody to come play the superintendent of all the schools and they were trying to cast local and I was like ain't going to happen ain't going to happen and they're like well fine who do you have Hillary it's like I've got Barbara Allen Woods

and she shows up and within 30 seconds of being there every member of the crew is in love with her Willie Garson is following her around like a puppy I love really everyone eating out of the of her hand and they're like, where did you find her? Because it was really this like one-dimensional character on paper. Yeah. And Barbara came in and made her warm and funny and so likable and like the hero of the movie.

And everyone was just like, please, please, let's write a whole movie where she's here the whole time. And it was an all night shoot, which is always extra special. Because we all get super giddy and you know like he barely make it through. It was fun. It was fun.

You have that special thing that I think Sharon Lawrence also has, Barbara, where you walk into a room and it's like, I love Sharon too. And you don't walk. You like float. You like glide into the room and everyone stops and the energy in the room shifts and suddenly you just notice everybody's kind of like watching and looking at you. No, it's true. You and Sharon Lawrence have that and it's really amazing to watch happen. Well, I love her. You know, we know each other because of One Tree Hill.

and we never even work together, but we have run into each other. And so we really bond over the show even though we never work together. And she's amazing. Yeah. I would love to work with her. Should we do most likely, too, girls?

Yes. Barbara, you're going to help us with most likely to. Yeah, please. Do it with us. It can be a real life cast member of ours or a character. Okay. Let's do it.

What is this is so cute? Yeah, listen, we're getting advanced here. Oh, kiss and tell. Most likely to kiss and tell. All right. This is a dangerous one. I mean, I never kissed anybody on the show. Nobody wanted to kiss me.

So it probably would have been me had anyone kissed me, damn it. Wasn't provided that opportunity. I would have told everybody. Yeah, kiss and tell. You know, you know who kiss and told in real life, ladies. Oh, one Barry Corbyn. Oh, so I used to hang with Barry Corbyn at that bar downtown Charlie Browns. I can tell you a few Barry Corbyn's stories.

Please do. Yes, please. He's a kiss and tell. Well, he's just, yeah. I mean, he went forward a few times. Let me just say. You're a fax barb. How could he not?

Yeah. But, you know, we're being public, and I felt a little bit under the table, you know, just like checking it out to see if I was interested. But, you know, in a respectful way, I was never like, like, just grazing the back of your hand, you know, just like, would you like to hold my hand? A little footsie. Oh, my God. He's a flirt. It's okay. Yeah, he's a flirt.

How did you, this is actually a good, a good segue into this question because I think this happens a lot, especially right now in this modern age, a lot of young women are not sure how to handle if they're. being hit on by somebody that maybe they just don't want to go out with or whatever. And it becomes a really scary and like, oh, I'm at work. And then it becomes an HR thing. But I think there is an onus on women to just be able to say like, oh, I'm so flattered. Thank you. But no. And then, of course, if it continues, it becomes a different issue.

But how did you handle that as a young woman? I think, you know, I've put the fear of God in all of my kids, you know, because of all the situations I've been in and I would never want any of those things to happen to them. and I think they have no trouble saying no. I mean, they just walk away so fast. It's so cool to see a kid say no. You know, we weren't in the room to do that. And how do you say no to a, when you're like when you're getting hit up, hey, he's

checking it out. Is this an interesting thing? Like, how do you do that where you maintain the friendship and a relationship in a working environment, but, you know, still put your boundary up? I don't know. I think it's just more acceptable these days to say no. I don't think that the hitting is. going on hitting on is going on as often as it used to let's hope it's not yeah yeah i have a feeling

they say no even when people aren't hitting on them because they're just so afraid they are you know i think that they they turn them away like what are you do would you like some coffee get you know go away yeah yeah you're coffee elsewhere um so yeah you know that was my predicament in the past, you know, I don't want to be on this person's bad side, this person I'm going to be working with for the next six months. I don't want them to hate me or take it out on me in any way. So that was like the struggle I always went through. But I just don't see it as much these days. Thank God. You know, I just don't. But it's also part of the dance of men and women is, you know, somebody making an advance to see like, hey, are you interested? And then the other person

says yes or no. And that's just, that's the dance. That's what we do. Yeah. Yeah. Who would have kiss and told though like who would have put out oh deb yeah i mean it's obvious yeah yeah and you know what i did want to say something because i thought about this because i was so respect the fact that you guys were able to say no at your young and you know some of you were you know relatively new but you had no problem saying no and you you had integrity and you protected your characters and i think because of that my character got more interesting because i think somebody when they were trying to like spice up the show a little bit. They're like, oh, these girls, you know, they won't do it. I'm like, I'll do it. You need someone. Yeah, I'll do gratuitous sex. Yeah. It'll be me. You know, I don't

know, like I never volunteered, but I think they saw that maybe I was game. Yeah. You know, so I've had kids so they know you were putting out. Yeah, like, yeah, like, I don't know, you know, it's like fourth choice, you know. No way. But they would have rather had it be you. It was more age appropriate though because think about it as like real women we come into our sexuality not at 18 not at 16 certainly it is something that like in your 30s you are jamming you know and so it made more sense for Deb to be the leader there and it was also I think that when sex is funny it's less offensive and I always try to incorporate like these scenes that sometimes many times cross the line if they're funny they're more acceptable somehow yeah

I'm not sure why that is, but less threatening. Yeah. Yeah. That's a good way. From now on, every time I have to do a sex scene, I'm going to take that note. Make it funny. And I'm going to make it funny. Make it funny.

Yeah. There'll be a director at some point who's just like, who told you this? Funny sex. Funny sex. It's way better sex. All right. So did you have any kiss and tell candidates? Oh, man.

I mean, I feel like Brooke Davis was a bit of a bit of, a kiss and tell her, but I, but I also feel like it was very to try to be cool, you know. Who were yours? Oh, well, Barry, I think is a great, is actually a really great. I think, yeah. You know, my first instinct, I was like, is it Brooke? But actually, I don't think it's Brooke at all. I think she's much more of a, it's all bravado with Brooke. I think she, she holds a lot close to her heart, a lot of private moments. I don't know, Antoine. Antoine. Antoine's definitely Oh, yeah.

He loves to tell. He tells a lot. He tells a lot. You know what's so funny, Joy? I actually had a thought about that, that kind of Brooke Davis bravado. Based on our conversation from last week when I was watching, you do that scene in the poncho with James. And Hillary, we were like, God, you're just playing.

It's so sweet. It's so sweet. And he's kind of flirting. And you're just like really hard to read. And you can tell that she. She's flattered but also wants to hold it in. And I was like, man, see, Joy actually knew how to be chill around boys. And then there's me who's supposed to be like, you know, the head cheerleader.

And like, she's really into dudes. And I just watched myself, like, really overacting because I'm like, is this how people do it? This is how people do it, right? They make, like, really big faces and stuff. And they're like, oh, I just was like, oh, God. Yeah, you'd been doing sex, man. And you were, you were chill. It did work.

It did work. We learned so much about Brooklyn. because of that because she didn't, I think that was the doubling down that she would do instead of retreating, which is what Haley did. She just retreated within herself. Brooke was like, I don't know what I'm doing. So I'm just going to throw everything out there and, you know, try and get it right. You know, it's just a different way of handling the same emotions.

It's cool. That's so funny. I love it. Barbara, it makes me so happy and confident to know that your daughter. are the next generation of leaders and role models for young girls out there because I know how you raised your girls. We know how you are and you did it right, you know. They're beautiful and smart and strong and confident in a way that I wish we'd been.

You were. You absolutely were all of those adjectives. I looked up to you guys so much as the adult on the show. I looked up to you guys. I really did. You are, and you are now such amazing role models to my girls. And we all follow everything you do. And it just, I'm just, you know, as the mom on one tree hill, I'm so proud of all three of you.

I love you. Thanks, Barbara. We have to get back to Ritesville Beach, like, soon. Yes. Yeah, for sure. We need to see you in person soon. And I want to see baby. I want to see all your babies.

And, oh, my God. I know they're not babies anymore. But I want to see everybody. We need a reunion. We do. Maybe when you get home from Toronto before I go to Toronto, we'll steal Hillary from the East Coast and we'll steal it. Let's do it. Sleepover.

We'll bring the juicy suits. Oh my gosh. That's it. We have to. Joy, Joy, always wanted to have tea parties. She was like, I'm going to do a tea party. So we'll do a tea party. We still do a tea party.

I'm so down. I still do tea parties. It happens. I love it. We love you so much, Barbara. We love you. You have to come back as Deb Spirals. You're coming back, please.

I want to come back for the, uh, with, I want to come back with Antoine. Yes. For the whole thing. We'll talk about it. We'll see what was going through his life. Yes. I love that idea. Yes.

Awesome. We love you so much. Thank you for joining us, babe. Thanks for having. Bye. Thank you. Hugs to the gals. I will.

Bye. Bye. Bye. Wow. I love her. Guys, Barbara Allen Woods. She brings such peaceful energy to everything. Yes.

Everything. Everything. Everything. And you know, Barbara really does remind me that we get to own it all. We get to own our professionalism and our intellect and our funny and our silly and our sexy. And she's such an incredible example just by being that you can be so fully embodied. I mean, what a role model. Yeah. And I love that she, I'm so scared of this industry for my kids because I had such a wonky experience with it. And Barbara did the opposite.

Barbara was like, we're not going to be scared. We're going to own it. You know? And has kept her girls really safe. I mean, Barbara committed to being on set with all three of her girls, like at the same time. She's a superhuman. I don't know how she did it. but they're just you can tell their dad is an assistant director they know how to show up and work they know what's up yeah yeah it's it's it's the I mean it does make me scared maria is a is actually a really good little actress um and she's got good instincts and but she does theater right now because to me theater's a team sport but you know film for kids is can is really as so many of you know it doesn't take a genius to take a look around and see all the kids that have gone off the rails because they grew up in this business but barbara has um managed to do an amazing job with her girls they're all such good solid people and smart and stick up for themselves

and they're professional and it gives me hope it's pretty cool it may look different but native culture is very alive my name is Nicole garcia and on burn sage burn bridges we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, welcome back. Okay, we have some listener questions. Okay. Okay. From Brianna in episode 5 on the anniversary of Peyton's mom's death. Why does Brooke seem so unaware of their best friends? And I just feel like she had no idea what day it was. So I'm hoping you guys will talk about it. And when you get to that episode, hopefully it was a production error. I just feel like Brooke is so much better than that. And, you know, how did she not realize about this important day for her best friend? So talk, tell us about that. Well, listen, listen, listen, we have to also keep in mind, this was 2003, right?

So this is like pre-Facebook reminders. This is pre-Iphone with Google Calendar and things like that. Like, I can't remember. We were still using paper calendars on our walls. You weren't going to write that out in your school planner, you know? Like, it's not, it was just a different time. And I think remembering things like that. are much easier now.

That's a really good point. Yeah, we have constant reminders now. But also, I don't know that the writers, when we started this show, understood the depth of our character's chemistry. You know, that we really were a love story. Yeah, they didn't, for sure. And I do think that, first of all, thank you for that.

Because as soon as Joy read this question, I, like, wanted to barf. Because it was always a thing that upset me. Well, I didn't come to your wedding. neither, babe. Like we did. That's true. Somebody's messy. The baby's sick. Oh, man. But, no, it's very true.

But I think this is really indicative when you guys have heard us talk about the ways that we went to bat for our characters and fought for them to be more wholly represented and complete young women and women. This is exactly it. We were really still five episodes in, although, you know, Peyton had this incredible storyline about grief that I think was the most adult thing we had done on the show so far, we were still kind of being treated as these secondary characters. It was two boys. They were the stars. It was about basketball, and we were the girls, and we'd be used where they needed us. And especially with Brooke, you know, because I was added in in episode one, they were like, ah, Captain of the Cheer Squad. Like,

well she's that stereotype and and these were the kinds of things that we would bring to the table over and over and over again and say it wouldn't be like this girls wouldn't miss this we would never ignore this and yeah you know luff it was brutal at times and also let's be honest to hear like well well this not really the point of the episode and it's like oh okay well yeah but it was like it was a fight you know the whole time because like when Brooke got beat up and Peyton's like oh you fell down the stairs you know like there are certain things that you can only fight so many fights especially when you're you know it's season one and you're brand new and there are things that's a really good point there are things that are required for us as performers to suspend disbelief to service

the story yeah like when that happened to Brooke and Peyton had to go oh my god honey like what a horrible fall you took Because if you'd known, then we wouldn't have had the drama of the episode. Yeah. If Brooke had been there for Peyton in the way that I would think she would have been, Peyton wouldn't have been alone for the whole episode crying in her car. Yeah. So sometimes there are these requirements. It gives Brooke somewhere to go.

But, you know, I mean, every flaw gives your character somewhere to go. So it worked in that way. Well, the redemption's so much sweeter, you know, like then when Brooke shows up, you know, it just the, yeah. The redemption's sweeter. But it would have been so nice to see you guys connect in that way and see what a good friend was right off the bat. Just knowing real life when things ever went south, we were all hugging and kissing, you know, back in our trailers. I mean, I will say, because this is now the second time I've thought of it in reference to this because this is about grief and so much of, you know, so many of the big moments in this episode happen on the quad. I'll never forget.

shooting at school one day on the quad. And it was the day my grandfather died. And Hillary, you were the person, like, you, my, I got the call from my mom and you just, like, I didn't know I was falling, but until I realized you'd caught me. And, like, we went through that stuff in that school, like, in those places together, all of us. Like, our real grief, our real loss. Like, you lost people. I mean, we lost people. And you were the first person I saw.

Yeah. You know, we were so blessed to be there for each other in life. And that is something I cherish that we got it right. Behind the scenes. When we didn't get it right all of the times, you know, on camera. Yeah. It's nice when you feel like it's real. And I think that's why the audience wants to know.

like oh how could this be but um the real stuff was real so if if you were feeling like oh this relationship deserved more just know that it did exist just like off camera um yeah yeah and that kind of leads into the next question that we have um let mackenzie wants to know if i kept any of the albums that Peyton had in her room and like hey this is a tough subject because no um when i left the show. It was kind of unceremonious. I, after the fact, somebody snuck me, Ellie's leather jacket, or costume or knew that that was something that would mean a lot to me, and it was never going to be seen again. And so she passed it, like, through a secret channel of people to get to me. But the only things I have from the show were things that Sof stole

when the show ended and mailed to me. She was like, I have a box. I have some things for you. That was so emotional. Peyton never came back. The real life relationship behind the lens is what you guys hoped it would be, you know? Like, yes. My best friend stole my stuff. Thank you so much. I mean, I remember that was so hard, you know, you even referenced Brooks' wedding. Like, Joy and I were like, this feels weird. Yeah. But you got to, you got to like do it. And I think there was obviously there was such a saving grace for us in getting to have the safety of of brook and haley after all those years but oh man i mean this is a fast forward but i remember the end of the show when we were filming the tree hill movie and when we built Peyton's room and you know

the bookshelves the records it had all been in storage that's something that the audience may not know too like yeah guys they keep everything in boxes and it's cataloged and like they break the sets down and they literally pack up buildings in storage containers and yeah like it's all somewhere and I walked into you know Peyton's room with the records and I just started sobbing

everyone was like oh god and I was like this is really weird I'm feeling very emotional I grew up in this room on television and also in real life but yeah it was a trip and that that was kind of when when we were like getting into the last two weeks I just started stealing stuff

and mail I was like I'm going to take these. I'm going to take that frame. You know, because I was like, I was like, I know these things are just going to go, like, in a storage container and no one's ever going to see them again. And I don't like that. I'm too sentimental. I feel like a lot of our stuff got sold in auctions and things like that. So if anybody has, like, my old clothes, like, I'll buy them back.

I'm not. Is it weird? Hey, guys, can I have my stuff back? No, I kind of like that. Yeah, Joy, we have a question from Carla. She wants to know. Oh. Girl, did you get to keep that crackerjack bracelet from Haley's first tutoring session with Nathan?

Did you get to keep it? So I'm going to ruin, I'm going to burst the bubble. Like, I don't want to ruin fantasy with this. I'm like, there's a story here. No, it's not a real story. Do you want to make something up? It's actually so non-exciting that the prop department had like a giant plastic bag full of these bracelets. So there wasn't just one.

There wasn't just one. It was like, and there was a big plastic bag. He would give them out to like extras and people who were like, oh, I want one, I want one. So the actual original one that he put on my wrist just went right back into a plastic bag. So somebody out there has the actual original one. But there's no way we would ever know who, which one it is. Well, did you get to keep any? Yeah, I have one somewhere.

Oh, okay. Yes, I do have one. But it was just a random one from a plastic bag, you know. So the sentiment is there. That's kind of nice too, though. Because, like, now every girl who has one is looking at her wrist, like, this could be the way. Like, it's like Willie Wonka. Oh, got a golden tear.

Yeah. Oh, I love that. Wait, wait. And Carla has a sort of part two of her question, which I don't think I know the answer to about you either, Joy. Were you ever a tutor in high school? No, you didn't. No, I did terrible in school. Are you kidding?

No. Did you really? I would have figured you were like the straight A girl. No? No. I was, I was, B's and C's at best. If I ever got an A, it was like, throw her a fucking party. I mean, no, I just don't.

Joy, you're such a good actor. I don't learn well in classroom environments. Now, whenever I was on set and I had a personal teacher and I would fly through my curriculum and I would do really, really well because I had one-on-one and somebody that could work with my brain learns and processes information in a way that's just not conducive with the public school system and the classroom environment, I ask a lot of questions because my brain kind of works where it's not enough for me to just know what the answer is.

I need to know why that's the answer and I need so that I can understand, don't just tell me that if I put the toast in and I click it down, it's going to heat it. Why is it heating it? How does that work? I need to understand. And teachers don't have time for that.

So I could never just learn the answer and then copy it down. my memory wouldn't hold things like that. So I did pretty badly in school, to be honest. Do you guys have a weird short-term memory thing from doing TV for as long as we did? 100%. Because, whoa. I've realized that when you get trained to learn 10 pages of dialogue a day and then forget it and learn 10 more the next day, man, sometimes I'm like, what happened? There's a story. It was my birthday? Wait, start the story. And if someone gets four, lines in, then it's exactly like

the reaction you had watching the scene on the bridge where I'm like, oh, I know this dialogue. I know this. I remember. I remember every word of the scene with Lucas. It was the weirdest deja vu feeling to watch that scene back and be like, oh my God.

Was it maybe my audition scene? There's no way that scene was written when I audition. I don't know why. It's just it's like stapled to my brain. I know every single one of those words. I could do that scene. tomorrow it's just nuts maybe because you had to do it over a weed whacker over and over and over yeah you know what it was the trauma of the weed whacker it just cemented it yeah it's so awesome it's so awesome um Sophia though you

you were different because you can read a book and remember what was in the book and have intelligent conversations about it long after you've read it I remember this about you I can't I mean I process information, make decisions about it. She's got a photographic memory. Yeah, but you like, you remember. That's really kind. I, so this is, this can be a conundrum. This is really good for me as an advocate. I can rattle off social science data till I'm blue in the face. Yeah, yeah. But when I tell you, I do not know my mother's cell phone number. Sorry, mom. I don't know it. I know the first three digits. But like, I don't, I don't, I don't know it. I just don't. There are basic things. I I cannot remember, but I can tell you a quote from some Dutch report on gender pay parody from 1993.

I don't know why I'm like this. And sometimes I look at people I love and I'm like, I'm so sorry. Thank you for loving me. I don't know. I don't know what that is. Okay. So we have a huge episode next week. What's next week?

It's episode six. Every night is another story. Oh. That's a good one. party? I think it's the party. What party? Wait, the beach house party? The party? We just watched that.

No, baby. I think it might be the fancy house party, like dresses and suits. The one where I had to rip Chad's shirt off. I don't remember any of this. Red solo cups? Yeah. It was a tough one. Man, I have no idea.

I guess you guys will all catch up with me. We're all going to find out next week. We have questions. All right. So you guys have to watch the episode because we're watching the episode because we're watching the episode. Oh, yeah. And in the meantime, tell all your friends, because we're having a great time here.

We love it. And thank you guys for your questions. These are so just lovely and thoughtful and sentimental and they mean a lot. Yeah. So if you are feeling some overwhelming feelings like Peyton in this episode, there is no shame in asking for help. The National Suicide Prevention Lifeline is 1-800-273. 8255, help is there.

There are people that love you and care about you. And so we want you to stay healthy. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school.

Drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dramma, girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queen. You could see the smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic show. shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.