Drama Queens - It’s a Trap! • EP311

Episode Date: August 15, 2022

The Drama Queens are fired up and desperately need an update on Joy's love-life and the date/non-date from last week! Hilarie, Sophia and Joy dive into this week’s episode and dissect the storyline of Haley ‘trapping’ Nathan, the bond between Peyton and Ellie AND the long awaited return of Keith!!!! Plus, contest winner Amanda joins us and as you can imagine… she’s pumped! The Queens are giving her all their Wilmington tips and tricks - you’ll need to write these down!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Oh, boy. Hi, guys. Guys, we decided. I need a drink after that episode. Yeah, we need a drink for this is probably going to be the title of this episode. Honestly, I've got liquor somewhere from one of our previous recordings. I can't do this straight-faced.

That was a bad episode. This was the first time I think we've actually looked at each other and gone, how are we going to make it through the rest of this? There are 20 more minutes of this. This was not a good episode. No, it wasn't. This was, all right, it's episode three, episode 11 of season three. Tell them about it, okay.

It's his return of the future, which we had kind of high hopes for. It sounds, you know, futuristic and exciting. Was not. It was not exciting. It sounds futuristic. There's going to be spacesuits. There were no hoverboards, and this episode was trash. Trash.

The Ravens losing. Losing Street continues, and Whitey forces the team to find another home gym in an incredibly tropey. I'm going to make y'all play in a dunk. You're going to have to work for it, kids. Clean this place till it shines like the top of the Chrysler building. Okay, Amy. Nathan gets upset at Haley when Dan puts the idea in his head that she's trying to trap him with a baby. Brooke finds an unlikely ally with her designs when she gets in rogue,

Vogue, Ellie and Peyton continue to bond. Best part of the episode, I wish the whole episode had just been you two, continue to bond over music by putting together an album that will benefit charity. And finally, Keith, uh-da-da-da-da returns to Tree Hill. But Dan gets in the way of his happily ever after with Karen. And he twirls his mustache in his pinstripe suit. Guys, let's not talk about it. I don't want to talk about it yet.

I'm not ready to talk about it. I still have that bile taste in my throat where I'm like, we have to talk. about what we talked about last week. We have a follow-up. Can we just talk about Joy's Love Life, please? Can we talk about the suitor whose Instagram we did a deep dive into? We'll never tell you who he is, but we know all about that one.

We know. Oh, my gosh. You know, you know what? Like I spend a few days thinking like, did I, you know, was I overreacting? You know, like, I've had, I've been in moods where I was just feeling happy and friendly and like, hey, you want to let's say, let's see. sit down and have lunch. You seem nice and I'm nice and let's have a chat. You know, we're both kind of new in town and let's just sit and chat. And then like as the lunch goes on, oh, wow, I'm really attracted to this person. Oh, hmm, maybe. So like I'm thinking, okay, maybe I could

give him a little bit of space for that felt unsure. Hillary's just shaking her head. Nope, nope, nope, no, you can't because we talk to our husbands. We sure did. Because, because you know there's going to be somebody who's like, God, you girls are so uptight. No, we're not. Because guess who else is mad about this, our husbands. Yeah, 100%. We gave this thing the smell test to both Grant and Jeff, and they've got notes. They're very upset.

They both were like, that's absolutely unacceptable. Yeah, we went to a sushi dinner. It was like the first time we'd gone to dinner with just the two of us and we're like, we're not going to talk about the kids, you know? I was like, well, let me tell you about this with joy. I laid it all

out for them. And I was like, Just out of curiosity, have you ever invited a strange woman to sit with you during lunch where you talk for hours and don't tell her about me? And he's like, uh, no. First of all, you're a psychopath and you would destroy her. But second of all, that's totally a date. That's 100% a date. And he was offended and he was like, let me see the guy's Instagram.

And we, the Morgans, don't think he's attractive enough for all of this. I agree. By the way, I think we're going to cut the bar higher is what we're going to do. Look, I'm just saying it was my type. If you walked into a room with cute boys and, you know, there was attractive men in there, that's probably the one you would have picked for me. Like tall, lumberjackie, you know, like, disheveled, smart. I was like, this is great.

Disheveled. But we were more shoveled, all right? We want a little more shoveled than that. A little less dis. But truly, like, when I talked to Grant about it, he was like, listen. And we talked about this last week, ladies. Like, we have so many. I'm sorry.

Grant's the kind of person who is like, he's sweet, open. I could see him like striking up a conversation with someone quite innocently. Oh, yeah. And just, you know, so I am actually interested in to knowing particularly what he thinks, too. Yeah. By the way, one of my favorite things about my husband, still not used to saying it, still feels really fun. Just to clarify it. So cute.

Is that literally, like, I can, I can. I can take him anywhere. We can lose each other at a party and he's always having a great time. He's made a new friend. Can't wait to talk to me about the person that he met and what we're going to do and we wind up inviting people to dinner. I love that about him. His point was, look, it's great if you're social, but if you're hiding your life, you're

lying. He lied to her. That's what he said. He said, that man lied to her. And when I said, yeah, you know, my feedback to Joy was, you have, you are, you and Maria could have had new friends in town if you'd known that this guy and his fiance had a farm like y'all could have been family friends and grant said exactly yeah but he lied to her when you leave out one of the most important facts of your life you're lying and not only grant's point was that

not only did this guy lie to you but he lied about her yeah and to do that to the person that you have pledged your life to is dark. All right. So that relationship is due. I was like, see, I am. This is why we're mad. And Grant was like, we need, we need to introduce Joy to someone. I'm going to think about this because this is unacceptable. You guys know how sometimes like Entertainment Weekly

or some of these news outlets will pick up things that we've talked about in the podcast and turn them into a news story? What the fuck are we going to do when they take this case of the lying farmer and they turn it into a news story? And it's like, in the paper's case of the lying farmer.

Well, listen, if we're, if we're going to do what the tabloids would do for one more second, let me just follow up that in addition to y'all going through his Instagram, I showed it to Grant. And then I said, and look, because if you scroll so far down and you find the only picture she's in, and then you go to her page, he goes, let me guess. He's in every photo. And I said, yes. So she tells the truth about her life.

And this man, this man is telling a lie about his life and I don't like it. And our families are all very offended. It's a bad instinct. even on, even on the most generous benefit of the doubt level, even there, and you go, okay, he's just finding himself attracted and didn't expect to and doesn't know what to do. Listen, every time you have a choice to do the right thing or be selfish, and those moments happen every day all the time, you have a choice in that moment. And what you do with that choice is the measure of your character.

That is who you are. I mean, that seems like, and it doesn't happen in the charity. cases that you show up to take care of. It doesn't happen in all the big grand gestures. It happens in those small moments when you have a split second choice and you have to do the right thing. And what I will say is we're all human. It's impossible to be infallible. Everyone has had low moments. Everyone has, you know, you think of your highest highs. You've got your lowest lows. You have things you regret. You have things about your past. You wish you could change. You have decisions you wish you could have made differently but not to be you know tropey and

annoying but at our age come on come on like we're too grown up for this even 10 years ago I could have gone you know what maybe he felt pressured and they got engaged and he's trying to get out and he saw you and he didn't want a chance get away and he's breaking up with her next week no at this point absolutely not we are adults we are so adult yeah and the fact that when you gave him the opportunity to tell the truth and say, I asked you to have lunch because you seemed so nice. And then we got to talking. And then suddenly I thought, oh, no, I've done this thing. I've done this thing. This feels like a date. I don't know how to tell her. I'm engaged. I'm embarrassed. And I should have just told you. I'm so mortified. If he'd said that,

maybe you could be friends. Literally. Yes. Maybe you could see him around town and meet his fiance at a coffee shop one day. And you all could become friends and laugh about it. Yeah. But the way he reacted, well, if I had a dollar for every time, a girl hit on me. Ew. Fired. Forever. Goodbye. Ew. The boys are on our side. I don't need girls.

I don't need, I don't need to, please, please, whatever. Please. I don't need you. I could ask, I can get any girl I want. Like, he's not a 24-year-old ding-dong. We are grown-ups. We are adults. And it was a follow-up.

That's what really kicked me. Because I was like, you know what? Walking away from that lunch and being like, okay, you know what? You had a weird moment. It's selfish and rude. But, okay, fine. It was the follow-up two days later. That was the real kicker.

That's what it was. I wasn't going to say anything. I was like, I got your number, but I'm just going to back off. I'm never going to talk to this guy again. It's fine. It's the fact that he, that's why my immediate response was like, yeah. Hey, hey, you engaged? Why are you talking to me?

Why are you still here? Why are you still here? This ties it perfectly to your storyline in this episode, Joy, because Haley is not suffering any bullshit in this. Hey, there she goes. We're going to back around. There we go, Hillary. No, but for real, as we're talking.

talking about this like ding-dong boy, you know, the world revolves around them. The world revolves around their goals and their hopes and their dreams. Fantastic. Congratulations, Nathan. You're good at sports. Yeah. This idea that, like, Haley's trying to trap him, his quickness to buy into daddy's narrative, it's very unconsign to me.

And also, I don't know. See, that, I don't know. I could see it. I could see it because of, because of, because. of the town history because of Karen and Deb, that's why it feels like, okay, maybe this is a thing women do. But we commented how yelly this episode was. Oh, yeah. Perhaps my issue was more with the way it was scripted, where if you notice in this episode, everyone went from zero to a hundred very quickly. And every scene was only like half a page long. So it was just these tiny vignettes

of people screaming at each other. I don't want to do that. It was so much of us. Relax. Relax. Let's relax a little bit. What I'll say is that your willingness to be vulnerable in real life is something that I really respect about you. And you've always been that way. You've always been the one to be like, hey, I don't feel good. This doesn't feel nice. Can we talk about it? Even when we were kids, you were the person that would be like, let's cut the shit.

I don't feel nice. Let's talk. Haley does that in this episode where she's like, okay, I understand that you're all whacked out right now. but this doesn't feel nice. So I'm not going to make it better for you. It's not my job to fix this. Which is so great after she's been grovelling. Groveling.

Thank you. Yes. And I thought for a second, I was like, is this a defense mechanism? Because now she got him back and now he's being weird again. And so instead of being worry, instead of turning it back around on herself, she's angry and, like, letting out all of her frustration that she's had pent up, or is this legitimate? But it's legitimate.

He's being irrational and crazy. And I think it's really important. That line that she has been very willing to see his pain, she's been very willing to say, I hurt you and I know why you're struggling to trust me again. Haley and Lucas have this interesting parallel with that a little bit, but Haley's being kind and Lucas is being the king of Mr. X. and and I like that in this moment it's this goes past his feelings and into an accusation that while you can say like I get that you have trauma because this is your dad's story how dare you I love the way there's so much writing I could criticize in this episode but that you were scripted to say some you know what what you said about being 17 and having your own dreams and your own career goals it's like this.

idea that women just trap men with babies and you're like, hey, I'd have to carry it. I'd be a teen mom. I'd be giving up my future. Like, this isn't some casual thing to me. And it was such a nice call out. Yeah. Like, it's not a small deal for a girl of any age to get pregnant. Screw you, dude. Like, I loved that there was that wherewithal. It really is. Like, who do you think you are? Who do you think I am? How stupid do you think I am? How stupid do you think I am? Yes. And how desperate for you do you think I am? Right. Right. It's like, oh no, baby, I wanted you. I don't need you. This is a want. Yeah. And that goes into her being really clear about why she wasn't on birth control.

She's like, I'm sorry, you're yelling at me. You left me. I was gone. And I wasn't sleeping with that guy you thought I was sleeping with. And by the way, you could have not been the idiot at the end of the unprotected sex night, sir. D. I really liked that. I really liked it. It takes two, Nathan. I was like, yes, Haley, you're right. It sure does. Absolutely. Yeah, that's never happened to me before. I mean, there are children present. But that moment of questioning, hey, accusation. Hey, you were, you were taking care of that, right? Because I didn't. Like, I've never, I've never experienced that before. Like, I'm sorry, excuse me. Sorry, what? Pardon? Pardon me? No, it's actually almost all. their responsibility. But you know what I think is really interesting about that? This is one of the moments where I relish in our on-screen friendship, in the Haley and Brooke of it, because the girls are being the adults in the room. We're having a conversation and I'm like, I love that you're back with your husband.

I'm mad at you that you had unsafe sex. And we have this like safe sex talk that is actually frank. And once we get into it, we ask each other questions. And there's no judgment. There's like real encouragement of exploration of a relationship dynamic. And thank God we're getting it somewhere with our female friendships because with the boys, we're just being accused of ridiculousness. It's totally ridiculous.

Throw my hands up. I've had it. I agree. No, it's nice. It's nice to see that between us. I love our conversations. I do love our conversations in this episode. And the conversation that you guys had was so much better than the conversation that Luke

and Nathan had. because they essentially have the same conversation where he's like, Brooke and I had a pregnancy scare, get a man, but like, you know, and it's so just broed out and it doesn't get to any point of honesty where it's like, hey, it's on us

to always have protection. It's on us to be participants in this safe sex game. Like at no point do they hold each other accountable in the way that the girls do. The girls are having this very adult conversation. Boys are like, don't let anything get in the way of basketball, man. And meanwhile, the girls are like, well, do you think in your subconscious mind you did really want to just launch back into your family?

But you know what? It's the way we are. Sports. I mean, we by the three of us. That's kind of our game. Yeah. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia.

And on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native. stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the

modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Was there anything else redeeming in this episode? Like, look, I really thought Karen and Keith was going to be something I'd be excited to see, but I just, it was so clunky. You really didn't like it. No, Keith came home, and his face was all shaved, and he didn't have sideburns.

And also, where was his bandana? Where's his, I don't know if his boots were even tucked into his jeans. Who is this man? It's like, you know, Craig came on our show and talked about the fight that he had with our bosses about how they wanted him to be super clean cut. And so they wrote them out of a whole bunch of episodes And it felt like, okay, well, you're coming back But you're coming back on our terms

And the way that we can show that Keith is a new man Is by tidying him up in this like super clean cut way You're going to play, but you're going to play by our rules And it just felt like if Karen was going to have the hots for Keith She wanted, you know, mechanic Keith Yeah Keith with the floppy boots Oh, that's the key I want.

I will say I did like that scene for him. Well, for both of them, really, when he fixed her car. Yes. And she came out in that little dress and was just, oh, it was so sweet. Well, how come, I bet Andy could have a team of guys do this. All right, everyone's going to lay it out there, huh? And then she just dropped the honesty on him. I traveled halfway around the world.

But that's what happened. It was right here. When you're our age, when you're our age, there's no time. Why waste time? Why are we wasting time not just being 100% honest, you know? I love that about Karen. Yeah, she got the memo. We're too old for this.

We're too old for this. I do like, though, that as much as they made him clean up, Craig was like, I'm keeping this bandana in my back pocket. He sure won. We did. The red one was there. It was the picture of Bruce Springsteen's born in the USA cover with the jeans and the red handkerchief touched in the back.

That was his silent rebellion. That was silent rebellion, just like, they can't win all the way. I'm going to let them win a little, but they're not going to win all the way. That's right. Bandana's here to stay. I love that. I will say truly, for as much weird energy as there was in this episode and as clunky as the scenes felt, and as much as I hated that they wrote Lucas to still be.

we misdirecting Brooke and then to tease her about sex and that like he's not in love and then he's like just kidding I'm in love with you ew ew enough right on the bed where there's like the highlight for me was Peyton and Ellie I wanted the whole episode to be you and your mom on a road trip meeting with bands and having her it was like she was building the yellow brick road for you yeah like you see Ellie right you see her teeth right you see her Teaching Peyton all the cool, like, rock and roll world band manager tricks. And as a viewer, I could see not just for her how refreshing it is that Peyton's in a moment of joy, but I, as Sophia, could see you as Hillary having fun.

And it's so fun to watch you have fun. That was it. It was a big change. I kept thinking. I was like, what is it about? I mean, you're beautiful, no matter what? what. But there was a different light about you in this episode. Your hair was done a little differently and your skin looked really glowy and your makeup was lovely. But it was that you were

happy and it was so nice to just see Peyton being happy. I felt like very protected in my storyline with Cheryl. I wasn't being asked to do anything compromising. I wasn't having to kiss any of the boys on the show, which isn't like an awful thing, but it is, you know, it's weird. I was just asked to connect with someone who I really, really, really liked. And it felt so fun and so safe. And in that scene where she's telling me about the day that Peyton was born, like, I found myself as Hillary just like hungry for that. Like, I wanted to know every minute of that experience. And then what? And then what? And then what. And, and yeah, I think, I don't know. watching her

she's so glittery and like when she throws her hands up in the air when the band like agrees to everything Oh my gosh I love to. And she lights up. I just, I'm so enamored with this person in front of the camera and you know like off screen that

yeah I would can sign me up for anything Cheryl Lee ever does ever like she's just a magic person. Our editors also did such a beautiful job because when you guys have that conversation, you say, Nauta surf is in, and she throws her arms up. Right when her hands get all the way outstretched is when always love kicks in. You always notice the music cues. Look at you.

It's happening again. I know I'm not okay. It made me cry and I'm crying again. Like, it was such a moment. And I was like, oh, God. It was beautiful between the two of you. I don't know what's wrong with me. Oh, look at you.

I just wish more of our storytelling was about those relationships. There's so much emphasis put on boyfriends, boyfriends, or girlfriends, like whatever. And I get it. Like, I was the kid who was love crazy forever.

But I also have like a family thing where I like stories about families because I'm not necessarily good at that all the time. And so I like watching it. I like those narratives because they help me. understand, like, what I'm doing wrong or what I can do better or what maybe things should look like, you know? And Ellie is just, you know, one of those little magical bubbles that we got to play in. I also think that having more examples set can be really helpful, not just for us, you know, now watching families, learning that kind of stuff in terms of how to navigate it,

like you're saying, but as a young person, I think sometimes the reason that young love can feel so all-consuming or life-shattering when it ends is because we have so many shows like this that just focus on who are you in love with and who loves you. As though that's the most important thing. As though that's it. And then you think, well, this is all I'm supposed to be thinking about. And when we watch episodes where we have a really good balance of these young kids finding themselves, finding themselves in their families, figuring out how to excel in school, find out what they're passionate about, in addition to, yes, the, you know, the beautiful fragment of life that is finding love, it feels more balanced. It's more enjoyable. And then things become less repetitive and tropy. Like if we do two, much relationship drama it gets annoying and it's like we've seen it a hundred times if all dan

scott has is to be the evil mustache guy yeah we're like oh my god they've made him do the same thing for five episodes we get annoyed with it i like a balance better and i think it's why it's so refreshing having Peyton and ellie having this beautiful storyline because it adds something to our show yeah it makes it better well i miss because i think that's a great point I am just as excited to watch Haley fall in love with music and Brooke fall in love with her fashion line as I am to see them fall in love with Luke and Nathan. Like, cool, great. It's the, it's that magic of the potential and the unknown and the excitement, you know,

that's riveting to watch. And the reason this episode fell so flat is that we know all that content is there. Right now it's just like, boys, boys, boys, boys. These boys are tough to deal with, you know. And Lucas is being all, you know, misdirect. And Nathan's picking fights to pick fights and repeating a cycle that is frankly boring at this point. It's boring to watch.

That's what we said. We all were just like, I'm so bored. The cycle is boring. Dan Scott showing up with no redeeming qualities is boring. And sometimes what happens is when you have. different writers on every episode. What I found with my character is that every single writer, every single visiting director wanted that moment of Peyton crying, right?

And so you just end up doing that one thing over and over again. And I think that's what's happened with Dan. Everybody wants to have the Dan moment. And it's just like, guys, we've done it for three seasons. like show Dan doing something adorable. What if Dan saved a baby? What if there was a baby carriage rolling down the street and Dan saved the baby, you know?

Yeah. And then Deb and Karen could have a great joke about, of course he did. You know, there could be a moment. Yes, yes. I just think sometimes that's a it's a pitfall of a writer's room where you've got different writers on every episode

because everyone's working kind of in a bubble and it's hard to know like, what are you doing? Well, what are you doing? Well, what are you doing? All right, well, I won't make Dan crazy in this episode. I'll actually make them really likable so that it packs a punch in your episode.

It's just... I also think sometimes on a show with a cast of this size, people will get really focused on the thing that needs to happen. Like, they want Nathan and Haley to have this big fight because is Nathan going to become? come Dan. And then, because that's such a focus, they'll get lazy with Dan. Or, you know, they want there to be this push and pull with Brooke. And somebody says, well, Lucas should tease

Brooke with these misdirects, where he says something that makes her feel real bad about herself. And then he'll be like, I'm kidding. You're my favorite person. I'm obsessed with you. And it's like a throwaway comment, but then two writers on two different episodes hear it, and they each do it in their episode three times. So then you're like, well, I hate this. Instead of it being impactful, I hate it. So I wonder how many moments we had like that. What if Dan was like a really good mayor? What if Dan was doing initiatives in the town that were actually wonderful? And then it was juxtaposed by this behind closed doors stuff. But instead, it's just all slimy. I, yeah, it's a weird. I mean, we, you know, we had 22 episodes,

sometimes 24, I think, God. Um, but it's funny now when you look at how it's, uh, TV shows are 12 to 13 episodes, you know, at max like 16, but that's pretty rare. Um, and they usually take a long time to draw out a storyline over that period of time. We had 22 episodes. I don't know why. I guess it just wasn't the thing to do. It wasn't popular back then. We always thought we might be canceled. So they were just like, we got to always wrap everything up so fast. I know. I know. Well, and I think that's a big part of it, too, is when you have that many episodes, things do become repetitive because it's so much time to film. Yeah, but they can do it. Like, it's an hour. I mean, we can always flashback to Deb at the fire 20 more times. Oh, my God. Oh, my God.

We got our money's worse. And the scene with her and Keith, where it was shot all shaky, like we're watching 24 or whatever. It was like the born movie came out. of intervention. I was like, what is this? Like, what handheld person is in the bed with these two? Choices were made. It was very, it was a very disjointed episode, but I will say talking about it for the last 32 minutes, I realize there were more highlights than we thought because we really were bored the whole time. Okay, who else? What else happened in this episode? Rachel submitted Brooks designs. I liked that. That was a redeeming moment.

Although she had an event, she had an ulterior motive. This is the thing. We were getting to the end of that scene, and I'm watching me and DeNeal being these real cute little rivals who are deeply obsessed with each other and mad about it. Like, I'm a big Brachel fan, guys. Yeah. And I was like, man, look at starting. We're cute. And then I walk away from her and she goes, no, thank you.

And I was like, wait, what evil thing does she have planned? Oh, dear. I genuinely don't remember. I don't either. I think that Rachel loves you. Like, I honestly think, because I remember being in high school and not necessarily, like, wanting to go out with a girl. But I remember there were girls that I was like, I can't stop thinking about this. Like, this chick is just in my brain.

Yeah. In my brain. Taking up the face. Girl crush. Yeah. Rachel's got a thing where she's fixated on Brooke and she's like, I'm either going to win this girl over or I'm going to destroy her. Or I'm going to win over. her and I'm going to win over her by destroying her and then make her my pet you know like there's just like kind of this sexy power thing going on between the two of you that yeah I like it oh and for sure and I couldn't help being amused by Danielle and you can see it on my face yeah you're not pissed off you're like when she like admits it and I have this like I try to talk and I get

stuck moment and I'm like oh no that's that's real yeah it's you're not really mad you're trying to put the puzzle piece together and honestly I think you too should just kiss like you guys are super freaking cute there's a way like eventually you guys start mirroring each other in the way you wear your hair and the way you dress and it becomes a bopsie twin situation it's so cute wait you guys become roommates I miss that yes does that happen oh my god joy this is why I'm Like, what evil thing does she does? Because I know what's coming, but obviously not that well. If this show were being made today, Brooke and Rachel would have gotten a kiss.

And I would have liked that. Yeah. You know who else Brooke really likes in this episode? Who? Uncle Keith coming back. Oh. I ran and jumped into his arms, like Lois Lane launching herself at Superman. Oh, my God.

Sophia, when you, like, Brooke freaks out and is like, oh, my God. But you're bummed. body like blocks who you're running up to go see. So I had zero idea. Running towards him. I really missed Craig. I don't know what else to say. We all missed Craig.

It was great that he was back. Should the poll be, should Brooke have been that excited to see Uncle Keith? Like, should she? I liked it. I liked what you said, Hill, that, that's what you do. It's like a cute young girl thing to do. And you know what I still do it?

Like, I want to care about the things that you care about. I'm going to show that I'm going to show that I. I care. It's a good girlfriend move. I think that's sweet. Oh, my God. This is my boyfriend's favorite person. And plus, we all really missed Craig.

He was such a good energy. We missed him a lot. We did. Yeah. Yeah. I also like that Craig. Craig was given these jokes. Once I say, you know, I'll go sleep on my couch.

You guys have time to catch up. And Craig and Lucas leave together. he at the fountain had jokes to insinuate that we knew how ridiculous the fire storyline was and I liked that the writers did that I liked that they had him poke fun at a pretty major jumping of the shark

that we did on our episode it made me laugh yeah well because it just it doesn't feel like part of our show it's still like it's so at a left field like someone tried to murder Dan and then he won the mayoral election

like it's all just so extra and there's no and Dan's still showing up at like random gyms he's everywhere and I like the new gym because I think one of the problems our show gets into

is that it's the success curse if every kid on the show is like the best at something. Yeah. And everyone's successful at everything, and everything's shiny and winning. It loses its relatability with our audience. And so taking the kids out of the fancy gym and putting them in a gym that actually looks more like some of the schools, you know, that I grew up around is the schools I grew up

around were all built like in the 40s, 50s, 60, 70s. You know, there was nothing that was shiny and happy. And so I remember that gym. That was out. Where was that? That was out in Bregard or something? I think the reason that we got kicked to that gym is that it was actually basketball season for the real high school. Oh, yeah.

And like we just couldn't film there anymore. Yeah, I think so too. We got to find an alternate place. For years, they said they were just going to build a court on the stage, right? Yeah, I don't know why they didn't. Because they kept threatening to cancel us. That's why. I mean, it's great.

It brought in revenue for the city and for the schools, I'm sure. So that's always a good thing. Yeah. But yeah, I agree with you. I think we needed to bring it back down to Earth a little bit. It was becoming a lot, dynasty. We had to get into Whitey's crap hole. Oh, God.

What did he say? He said, crawl out of my crap hole. What did what he say? He said, get out of my crap hole, Danny. And I was like, did anybody think about it? what this sounded like when they put it on a page, did they? Barry committed, man. Barry committed.

And you could see how amused he was by it. That little twinkle in his eye. Oh, my gosh. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it did. does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and

confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people, people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, guys, we have managed to fill up 35 minutes of time miraculously.

But we have something exciting. because you guys will remember, so for our listeners, we did a contest and we invited you all to listen back to old Drama Queen's episodes and answer questions that we asked you that you could only get the answer from listening to our episodes, not from anything online. And so we found a winner and here's what she's won. She gets a Zoom with the Drama Queens with all of us. Hello. And we're going to talk with her in a second. She gets a trip to Wilmington, North Carolina, which includes roundtrip airfare domestically for the winner and one guest, a two-night hotel stay and a $500 visa gift card. And we're probably going to throw in a couple of our favorite places to let

her know, like a little list of all of our favorite places to go to. So can we please bring her in? I'm so excited to welcome Amanda Dorch. Yeah. Hey, we. Amanda, are you there? Hello? There she are. Hi. Hi. You're an honorary drama queen. Oh, hello. Oh, hello. I was like, I'm gonna play it so cool. I mean, I'll freak out. Don't. We're not cool. We never play it cool. Where are you from, Amanda? Hi, I'm from Detroit, Michigan. Okay. That's my home away from home. Oh, Amanda, I'm like, we're so honored that you spent the time to listen to our show and take the notes and find all these. I'm just so grateful. Thank you. Oh, my goodness. Thank you.

It was so funny. When the scavenger hunt was dropped, I was like, okay, yeah, these are great questions. These are just hard enough on behalf of the fandom. Y'all digress. But, yeah, it was awesome. So thank y'all just for the opportunity. I appreciate it. Yeah.

Have you ever been to Wilmington before? Never. Never. And it's so funny because my sister and I, we have been talking about it. We're like, we have to get down there. She's my who I watch with and we listen together. And so it was, y'all announced the podcast or announced the scavenger hunt the day before her 18th birthday. And so we were like, if it's meant to be, so she's going to go with me. And I was like, that is so sweet. So wait, wait, what are you the most excited? to see because it's going to be your first time. So do you have a list of where you all want to go? So, yes. We have, we have, of course, all the landmark places. And then, like, we are avid listeners to the podcast. And so we've been, like, taking notes on where you all say. And, like, we're really excited to eat, of course. And so we're, yeah, we have a little list. But, of course, we want all of y'all's recommendations all over again. And we definitely said we wanted to go to recess. We definitely said that we wanted to go. Just all the trademarks, all the houses. We were talking

about all the little trinkets that we're going to pick up for the people. I know y'all have mentioned that. So we're like, okay, yeah, we'll find some cute stuff. So, yeah. That's so great. Yeah. Okay. So what are our top recommendations? We're going to send you, we're going to set you up right. Please. Yes. Because we also get DMs about this a lot. Everyone's like, I'm going to go. I've got 48 hours. What do I do? Go. You all know my first two. You have to go to get Tacos at Tower 7 at Ritesville Beach. It's just so good.

Yeah. And you've got it. So local that is such a standard staple Wilmington thing to do. Yeah. Yeah. It's such a good vibe. And it's fun because whether you go for lunch or dinner, you can go for a walk on the beach. There's like, there's so many just cute things to see out at Ritesville.

And then you've got to go when you do the downtown, like the waterfront where Nathan gives Haley her charm. bracelet and where our, you know, all of our little stores where our record shop was, you have to go to Kill Ones for ice cream. My personal favorite is a chocolate chip cookie dough. I don't know what your jam is. But if you get it, get it in a waffle cone. You're welcome. You're welcome. You're welcome. I love La Cattleland. I always used to go there and just because you could always get a great glass of wine and you just sit on the on the water. So it depends on what time of, when are you going? Do you No. Is the Catalan still open? Oh, my gosh. I don't know.

Is it? I don't either. I don't know. Riverwalk, when are you going? The Riverwalk is open for sure. Okay. So we're still talking about it. We haven't decided on the date. So we've been working with your team. And they've been amazing. Just, just. They are amazing. I love hearing of us. So sweet. They are amazing. I was like, oh my gosh. Yeah, because they saw my original freak out.

So shout out to them. And so we were talking about maybe going, so my little sister, she is starting college. So I'm trying to work around her schedule too. So this would be her freshman year. So we're thinking either Labor Day or right before she leaves, which is in like two, three weeks. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Labor Day's great weather. It'll probably be good still in the water. It'll be gorgeous. Oh, my God. It's warm until like Thanksgiving with the water. But also Labor Days before hurricane season, which we learned the hard way filming this show. That's right. Don't wait too long.

Yeah. Okay. But to Joy's point, like glasses of wine on the riverwalk are kind of iconic. Oh, yeah. So great. And then Brasserie du Soleil, that's still open, I hope. Just go get their steak friets and the mac and cheese. Oh, yeah, the truffle mac and comes in that little.

Tulene that they bake. It's all crispy on the top. You can't touch it. It's so hot. It's so good there. Antique shopping. Y'all have mentioned it before. Yes. Okay, Jess James, vintage, has always has great stuff. She curates it herself, and it's really interesting things.

And Castle Street has quite a few antique stores. Yeah, Castle Street, I want to say it's like below eighth. So, like, everything kind of below eighth on Castle Street is an antique and poor. And there's just little tiny shops all over the place. Some of them, you walk in and you think it's a little shop and then it goes on forever and ever and ever. But then there's also the Ivy Cottage, which is on Market Street. That's what I was going to say, cottage, yeah. I spent a lot of time in there.

Yeah, Joy, we did some damage in there. We did. Guys, our houses were just like out of control. We'd be like, old ladies. I bought a carousel horse. What do you want from me? It was 40. $35. How could I not?

It was a steal. I needed this. Yeah. Okay. Amanda, so can you tell us a little bit about your history with One Tree Hill and just, I would love to know when you started watching and, yeah, just tell me more. Tell me more. Of course.

Okay, yes. So I was a part of the Netflix generation of One Tree Hill fandom, I guess, you could say. I watched for the first time my sophomore year. year of college, so in 2015, and became obsessed immediately. So it was, it quickly became like a comfort show. And so I rewatched it right after graduation when I moved to Dallas from my first big girl job. It was my go-to show. And then same thing, like just when everything happened. And then it's also been a really big bridge for my sister and I. So he is eight years younger than me. And it was the first show where we ever got to like talk about it. Like she had

very strong appeased, you know? Really? When you're eight years apart, I think when you're growing up, it feels like, like I could be your mom. But really in reality, that's not true at all. But it's like, you have to be the grown-up. Yeah. Yeah. And that was our relationship until we started talking about the show.

And it was right at a peak time where like middle school and right before she started high school and so she's talking about boys and like just messy things that are happening. So that's kind of like our bridge. And then when drama queens came out, we both were like, we have to listen to this. Like, this is the thing that we have to. And so that's what we've been doing. And it's so funny because she's like, for both of us, listening to y'all is like being also at the big kids table. So it's also like, y'all are like our big sisters too.

So we're listening. Oh, did you hear that a piece of advice? You should probably use that. And I'm like, yes. Wait, wait, wait. So we kind of go back and forth on that. But yeah, so it's just kind of come full circle and we've had really good conversations. I think what y'all are doing is so amazing and how you're doing it because there are a lot of different podcasts and things out there.

But I think y'all are very honest and it's transparent because we've had conversations even. I think you can, you can, y'all talk a lot about duality and how two things can meet you. You can love something and still critique it. So we had that same conversation about One Tree Hill is like, okay, we love this show. right but i watched you in 2015 from a different lens and what it was previously made girl i understand you know so what y'all are doing is like oh my gosh at least they think the same thing that i did yes and even like i think we you can love this show and so critique it in the way of like is it okay to love a show that you don't necessarily see yourself represented in i think we've talked

about that y'all have talked about that too i'm saying me yeah you were there you were with us yeah Whereas, like, I think diversity and inclusion was different. You can probably count on your fingers how many black women are presented in one tree hill, especially with lines. But I still love this show and is that okay? Like, you know what I mean? So we've had conversations like that. And so with y'all critiquing it and seeing it and that gave me permission to be like,

okay, I still love this show. And I can still say how I feel, but still be a part of a fandom, you know? We're all human, our hearts all bleak for a lot of the same. stuff, you know, no matter what background you come from, the story resonates, the stories of teenage love and confusion about, you know, your family and struggling through friendships. These are all very real, raw things for anyone in our age bracket. I mean, for anyone in high school, like, going through that stuff. I'm just so curious about what your sister's strong opinions are. I need to get back time because we're 40-ish, you know. And so you're talking about

the 2015 lens. I'm dying to know what an 18-year-old's critique of the show is. Like, this is exciting for me. Yes. Okay. So her, she's going to kill me. So her, her, our biggest thing has always been, we want a Haley to stay on tour a little longer. We were. We were like she has to go she has to follow her dreams what are we talking about and she was like yes of course like their conversation should have been different and she should have told them to come but she's an eye she's gonna be an icon like so that was our huge conversation because and I think maybe it's just because we are we pride ourselves and like I just want to go after it like you know like that's how we are that was how we were seeing and she's so talented that was probably our

strongest takeaway. And so, yeah, so those are her big, big, huge opinion. She's always been team the sisterhood. So I think, oh, is it? Y'all haven't gotten into sisterhood. Yeah, so it's like in season five, she was like, we needed to see, we needed to see Brooke and, um, and Peyton come when Nanny Carey was tripping. Like, why didn't they come and why didn't they help her?

That's right, damn it. They would have been there. So, yeah. Right? We've already proven we can fight. Like we throw fists so many times throughout the horse of a Syracies. Brooke Davis will slap somebody. She should have slapped Nanny Carey. So, yeah, so we, and because we got to binge it all,

I couldn't imagine if I was waiting week to week, I would have been freaking out. So. There's a different time, babe. You had to, like, wait. And then we'd have our mid-season breaks, and you'd have to wait, like, three months. Like, it was crazy.

that's what makes the bad episode so much worse is that you know people sat around and they had to wait a whole week and then they like sat up in front of their TV with their popcorn or their dinner and they were like it's on click and then they had to suffer through an hour of terrible writing if it was a bad episode yes and even when y'all were talking about like those cliff hangers I think I think it I don't remember who it was but when y'all called dana iceberg like from the Titanic I was like, oh, my God. Like, you know, it's good, yes, so good. So do you have a favorite episode? Of Drama Queens or of One Tree Hill? Of One Tree Hill. Oh. Oh, Montre Hill.

Okay. My favorite episode. So, I don't know. People ask us that question all the time, and I'm like, how are we supposed to pick one? Yeah. How do you supposed to pick? So I am, I'm actually a huge fan of season three. those are my favorite three is great three is so good except for episode 11 that we just watched

oh my god did you watch episode 11 yet because it's grim yeah I did I know yeah we just yeah no Amanda we just watched it and we were like what how how is 12 better I really So just get to 13. Get to 13. Okay. We're going to be okay. Hang in there. Hang in there.

Get to 13 and we love it there. We love it at 13. Great. That's good. That's what I'm saying about. That's where everything is safe again. That's going to be the title of that episode, by the way. That's what we'll do.

Where everything is safe. Everything is safe again. Amanda said so. Please. You'll, you'll, you'll. be we'll be good we get back the ball the ball gets rolling but and that's what that's what i love about child's podcast though is like you can say it and i know i know yeah it's the fandom it just looks different all the time so kudos to you again y'all handle things in such a good grace

because i've wanted to get in the comments like wait a minute hang on like they they have the opportunity to say if they don't like it it's okay guys but it is always combated with something then better coming down the line. So, yeah. Just hang in there. Thank you so much. It's good again. Yeah.

Thank you. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something. we've been doing for a kind of years, you carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native

stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern whirl influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream listen to burn sageburn bridges on the iHeart radio app apple podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts if you had to do a tour of wilmington with one character from the show who would you no cruise around with oh yeah and and here's the thing we're not going to put you on the spot none of us someone other than us there you if you had to go out with someone other than the drama queens who would you cruise with cruise around in the comment like is that also i mean that in the comment

okay okay you can do a squad you're the winner no yes oh yes I love this for me um I love this for me I'm gonna steal that line yeah so hard I don't know so I'm torn between Lee Norris or a day with Moira Kelly would be iconic though

Oh my gosh Oh okay I can't pick Can I pick those too Like can they go Yes You know what They're both in the comment

Start your day with Moira Kelly Have a fabulous brunch There you go And then you hit those bars With Lee Norris Because You have never lived until you have danced with Lee Norris till three.

That's all I'm trying to do. It's really true. Let me tell you something. He got on the dance floor at my wedding and it was his wedding. Yes. People were like, oh my God, Lee Norris. I was like, I know everyone just put your bodies around his body. It was iconic.

Please tell me y'all did the yin-yang twins. Please. We did. Okay. So here's what I need you to know is Lee Norris and I actually have two songs. And 369 is our first song. But Lee's favorite song in the world is I want to dance with somebody by Whitney Houston. No idea. I was so excited when that song came on. Stop. And he looked at me and I just went, I did this for you. And we ran toward each other on the dance floor. And what almost nobody knows is that since the iPhone came out when we were, I don't know, 23 or 24, so this is like over 15 years now. Any time, either Lee or I is in a place where that song comes on, we send each other a video of one of us singing it.

Wow. So, like, in our text thread, we just have, like, years of being like, ah, and nobody can sing to Whitney Houston, by the way. So these videos are horrible and they can never see the light of day. But we should compile those, Sophia. This sounds like a music video we should see. There you go. Truly, I will protect our secrets till the day I die.

But I will say that as we're telling this story, I must concur with Hillary. You have to end your tour with Lee Norris. It's just, it's a fact. Yeah. If you can hit a karaoke spot in Wilmington, like your late night options are karaoke spot, right? Either at level five or Yosaki or there's some other places that are doing it now.

Level five. On our list? Level five. If they have a comedy show, go see it. Go see a play at Thalian Hall, too, by the way. Oh, okay. Yeah, Therian Hall is gorgeous. Yeah, they might have a good show on now.

I don't know. What's the plan? But I also would be negligent if I did not tell you to go on a ghost tour of films. Yes. Of course. Because, listen, I spoke to my old neighbor, George, his name was George. and we spoke recently on the phone and I was like, oh my God, what's going on?

How's the neighborhood? And he's like, we got these tours coming by your house all the time because I lived in a haunted house downtown. And the tours, I think my house might be on the ghost tour now. It should be Hillary. I feel like we've talked enough about it. Yeah. Oh, yeah.

The ghost tour is a weird way to spend the night. And if you're taking your 18-year-old sister and you can't take her into bars, that's like a great option. Okay. That you guys can just get a great lay of the lunch. land in Wilmington and you can see all of these like old houses close up all the like monuments close up they'll show you where some of the other cool stuff that filmed in town is there's the

carolina apartments where they film blue velvet um there's the on the corner from where i lived is where outcast filmed idyll while and i just got to sit across the street while big boy and i drink three thousand were across the street and i was so excited um so yeah the good Go on these walking tours. They're very cool. Make sure you ask them to take you by the old haunted dentist's house. Haunted dentist? That sounds really painful.

It's truly like it's the darkest, wildest story. But whoever's leading the ghost tour will be like, oh, she knows what's up. Yeah. Okay. That's a way to get some points. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I do too. Go play ski ball in Blue Post.

You have to. to go to Blue Post. Oh, if you go to Blue Post, will you please let us know if our little placards from completing the beer list are on the wall? It took so many years to earn those. Amanda, when you're done with all this, we want to see photos, tag us. Oh my God, we need a photo diary. Oh, yes. We need a photo diary. Can you just take over our Instagram while you're there? Can we just... Oh, that's a great idea, Hillary. You should. Let's just do that. Why you just cry? Oh, my God. Yeah. Okay, so you're going to create content that is going to be our Instagram. during the course of your trip.

You'll take over drama queens. It's going to be exciting. If it's not too much pressure, we want you to enjoy your trip. So, you know. No, I would love to do that. I mean, you don't have to like work, but you could just take us along.

Yeah. We want to see what you're seeing. And make sure you go and visit our friend Jesse at Edge of Urge. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She made a lot of our clothes back then and still does a lot of cool stuff for us now. She made Haley's bra the first time

Haley and Nathan got down. Spent the night together. Okay, Joy, you, what is the name of the hall so we can go see plays? What did you say? Thalian. Thalian, yeah, T-H-A-L-A-N, Thalian Hall. It's beautiful. Sorry, diligent notes here.

Yeah, no, but I love it. I love it. You're going to have to ride, like, Drama Queen's Guide to Wilmington, North Carolina. Oh, absolutely. It's right. So, listen, do you have any questions for us? before we, you know, let you go on your adventure, but I'm sorry we've, you know, I do have a couple. Yes, hold on. Sorry, the Notes app. We're going to pull that up. Wait, what do you do for a

living? I love how organized you are. I know. Well, no, I'm saying, that's funny. I spent way more time doing this than working today, so that's tough. But I actually work for Microsoft currently in Indy Trade. I'm one of their account managers. So I work. with their health and life sciences. Amazing. I hope with hospitals and stuff. So that's right. You're a grown up.

You're organized. That's amazing. No, it's all pretend. No. But I think that perfectly like kind of goes into our, my first question, I guess. So I'm 26. And what I always say about the podcast is nobody really gives you permission anymore

to be messy. I think with our generation, because we have social media and we have all of these things, we're told to be a lot more careful, I guess, than other generations before us, just because it can be documented and anybody can see it and can follow you forever. And so I guess one of the things that I love about once you heal and one of the themes I always see is one of the biggest takeaways is the talks about forgiveness and the art of forgiveness and how that's kind of woven. the end to right now you're a teenager and you're messy and you're in your early 20s and you're messy. Have y'all noticed any similar themes so far of like that forgiveness, that hero's journey, that rekindling of different pieces? Like what has been your biggest theme takeaway? Just up into the season three, the show. Oh, of the show of what you're talking about. It is a theme that runs through. I mean, Nathan and Haley have to find forgiveness for

each other and hurting each other and being messy. But that's really what forgiveness is for. It's not because, I mean, in my opinion, it's not for like, because you're expected to be perfect. It's because you can't be perfect and you are going to hurt someone in the process of living your life and just trying to figure out all of the important foundational questions of life that we all as humans inevitably ask ourselves and each other, you're going to hurt yourself and hurt each other. And so that's what forgiveness is for. And so it's good to put it into practice. And so, yeah, I mean, I see that a lot with Nathan and Haley, which is a great, their marriage is a great example of that because in marriage, you are messy and you are going to

hurt each other. And so you have to be able to learn how to have that forgiveness in that context. So that's what I mean I guess that's been mine but also because I was close to that storyline you know being in it and all having to shoulder that bear I think um for me watching the show back the forgiveness is the forgiveness of oneself you know Peyton beats herself up about everything oh yeah and I personally beat myself up about everything and this idea that, well, when I'm older, I won't do that anymore. When I'm older, I won't make mistakes anymore. When I'm older, I'll know better. It's bullshit. It's total bullshit. Because what we've

figured out is that in our brains, we're all 17 years old forever. It doesn't matter if you're 25, 35, 75, you're 17 in your brain forever. So the quicker you can learn to forgive the kid in you, the young adult in you, the parent in you. That's the phase we're in right now. The partner in you, you will be better at all of those things because you won't be doing that internal turmoil. The internal forgiveness, just be nice to the little kid in you. That's the thing. You're always talking to the little kid. Yeah. Yeah, I like that a lot. I think watching this so far, one of the things that I find really interesting about, Brooke's journey is

similarly to what you're saying, Hillary, she has to learn to be nicer to herself. She has to learn to believe in herself and realize that she's worthy to be able to forgive people and to be able to set healthy boundaries for herself because when she doesn't carry herself in worth, people treat her poorly.

And the more she steps into her own power, the more she's able to be vulnerable to admit how she feels and to grow. And I think that that was certainly my journey through my 20s. I mean, it's still a journey now. But then I was so nervous to make a mistake that I was too scared to ever ask for help that I just walked around feeling so terrified all the time and being sure that I was the screw up. Yeah. And it wasn't until I was like, hold on. All these people who I love that are awesome tell me I'm awesome. And I know I'm telling the truth that they're awesome and I don't think they're liars,

which must mean when they say I'm awesome, I am awesome. I'm fucking awesome. And it took me a while to be like, I'm cool. I'm not perfect, but like I'm a pretty nice person. And life got easier after that. So I do really wish, you know, like you said, Amanda, I wish that people would teach us to be a little gentler with ourselves and to feel okay admitting how we feel or what we're nervous about or what we might need help with. Because the more we can be in honest and supportive community, the better our lives are. I mean, that's why we do this show.

We're just like, we just want to be together all the time. How do we do that? I love what you guys are so you know what that's so true the forgiving of yourself that's one of the hardest things to do and it's extra hard too when you you are carrying it's hard to forgive yourself if you don't know how to forgive other people too which is I think kind of what you were saying hill that's like you're so hard on yourself and Peyton beats herself up and but then we carry that and that expectation of well if if I can handle A, B and C then other people should be able to too and then it's hard to. to forgive other people. I mean, I just, you know, speaking of the topic of forgiveness, I just saw a play a couple weeks ago based on the hiding place. Did you guys ever read that story about Carrie Ten Boom? She was a Polish girl in the 1940s and her family was hiding Jews in their home. And one of the soldiers, her father was a watchmaker. And one of the soldiers came to work, sorry, this is kind of backwards, before he, sorry, this is kind of backwards,

Before he was a soldier, he was a German man and her father was very like, I don't discriminate against anyone, Jew, German, whoever you are. If you want to work for me, you can work for me. So this Jewish man, sorry, this German man comes in, works for them as an apprentice. He's very, unlikable the whole time, leaves, becomes a Nazi soldier, gives their family away. They all go off to concentration camps. And her sister, who she's very, very, very close with and is like the joy in the light. And Corey's the one who's like, I hate these people. all. And her sister is the one who's just like, it's okay. God wants us to love everyone. Let's just share love and be love and forgive. And, you know, they don't know. And sorry, they're telling me to speed it, speed it up. I'm speeding. I'm sorry. But it's beautiful. It's this amazing mind-blowing story because in the end, it's all over. The war is over. And they're all just living in the aftermath. And Corey's sister has died in the concentration camp. And so she's carrying all this anger. And as she is walking through a train station

one day, she runs into this former soldier who sent her to the camp and who was the cause. This is a true story? Oh my God. And he was the cause of her sister's death. And he stops her and he says,

I know I know what I did. I'm so sorry. I've had an awakening in life and I don't know any other way to apologize except to say that I'm so sorry and can you ever forgive me. And there's this beautiful moment where she just stands at him and stares at him and finally embraces him. And that's it. And then just it's like, that's it. We're walking away and we're

done. And this moment, like, and there's a quote in the play that's forgiveness is scandalous. It's not something that's easily given and that's why it's so meaningful um because it's not something that you can just write off and be like yeah i forgive you it's easy it's it's outrageous it's scandalous because how could you forgive that person yeah but you know like in this recognition that we're all human we're all susceptible of of all different kinds of things we're all capable of all kinds of things put in the right scenario or the wrong scenario or the right conditioning uh or the wrong conditioning and so anyway that that level of forgiveness and humanity is a theme that I love and I'm so happy that you brought it up sorry I didn't mean to go so far off the rails but thinking about like

forgiving yourself for the things that you do and like when we forgive other people how much more that opens up for us to be able to forgive ourselves so yeah all right so then you can kiss your best friend's boyfriend twice and then she can be the best made about it. I can always count on for a segue Hillary. Thank you. best, truly. If you're going to be a fucking awful person, it's got to come full circle and you've got to be able to say, I'm sorry. I fucked up.

There is no better breaker for levity than our sister Hillary. Truly, it's like, it's such a skill. I'm amazed by you. Oh, my gosh. Sorry, Amanda. Do you have any other questions? I'm sorry. Yes, you go.

I am. No, that is actually perfect. I know, I think y'all have talked about this before because it all kind of like weaves together in this really weird way. but I think y'all drama queens has been such a big part of like a big big another theme is like that rekindling within sisterhood and within friendships and things like that and so to your to the points that all of you made in forgiving yourself and forgiving yourself your sister and giving your significant other I think a lot of times you hear the stories of like oh stick stick by your man like a lot of people

say things like that but sometimes we throw our friendships away so I know y'all have talked a lot about kind of how y'all swam back together, what kind of advice would you give for young women or like girls and women who are looking to rebuild lost friendships or like they've lost kind of that connection. And similar to how you all did, like we were away for a minute, but back stronger than ever. What did that first step look like? Yeah. Honestly, you can't dictate who your friend will grow into, okay? Because let's say your friends from high school you know you meet when you're 15 years old you've no control over the person your friend is going to be at 25 or 35 you know um and so it is loving the growth in your people

is really important because we all started off you look at sophia joy and i we're all essentially the same person we all grew up really really fast we're all pretty ADD you know we're all like spinning plates and hyper in a very similar way and so we all started off at the beginning of season one level playing field and then because of all of the variables that were thrown at us we all kind of found different paths some of us hung out more with the crew some of some of us isolated ourselves more some of us hung out more with the cast you know and we picked different paths and it's choosing to appreciate at in your friendships, appreciate the differences, appreciate the growth as opposed to being

threatened by it or being like, no, we were supposed to be on this road together. You know, you're not doing it right. Appreciate those turns because eventually your paths will meet up again and then you'll have great stories to tell each other and they'll be able to take you over onto their path, you know, which is exciting. It's been fun to like travel the roads that you guys took. Because I took a very different road. Yeah. I think it's also really important, you know, that idea to use your road metaphor. You can't assume how someone ends up on a road. It took us until we'd had some distance to say, I was actually really scared. So like, I'd go over there and then, you know, two of us could go, wait, what? You were? Like, I always thought you were so tough.

you have to realize that feelings aren't facts and that very often the stories that we tell ourselves aren't true they're based on the limited information that we have and the advice that I would give to any group of friends is remember you're all on the same team and if something gets weird like this is the moral of my marriage this is the moral of my friendships if something gets energetically weird. It's me and you against the problem. It is never me and you against each other. Yeah. And that's something we all had to learn. We did not have adults modeling that for us. And it's part of the reason that it feels really important for us to talk to you all about all of our experiences and how we grew and what therapy worked and what weird outward bound shi worked.

And like, whatever we did, you know? Just get your girls on a zip line, man. Yeah. Nothing going to be a problem after that. By the way, let's do that. Honestly, yes. Okay. But truthfully, you know, you've got to be able to come in and say, I feel this. And be honest enough to say, I don't know if this is really happening. I don't know if you're mad at me.

I don't know if I'm being left out. I don't know if, you know, I did something to hurt you. But I feel weird. Do you tell me if I'm nuts or if I'm tapped into something? Is there something we need to talk about? And it could be any version of that. But I think it takes a courage to talk to your people and to just say, oh, man, like, this is my stuff. I did that with Hillary last week.

We were laughing about something. And I said, dude, I still have 22-year-old me brain where sometimes my brain says, like, X, Y, and Z to me. And she was like, you're insane. I was like, I know. She's insane. But the key to what you're saying But you have to be able to just do it together Sorry

No, the key to what you're saying And to your question, Amanda, about the first steps is Humility really is that's the first step. You have to be humble enough to be vulnerable and to say the thing. You have to be willing to just

Okay, I'm no better than nobody else. I'm, you know, sorry, that was a bad sentence but you know what I mean. She's from New Jersey. She's no big. I'm better than nobody else. I ain't no better than nobody else, right? Listen.

That's true. I would love for our podcast to help female friendships. If that is part of what we're building, awesome. Absolutely. And you know, it's interesting. Like, Amanda, you said it. There's a lot of, there is a lot of messaging, right? About, like, do the work in your relationship.

But let me tell you what. the longest relationships of any of our lives, any of the women you're looking at right now, are each other. Oh, my God. Yes. Like, you all are the, you are some of the longest relationships of my life. Yeah, besides family. Yeah, it's why I got like all blubbery looking at my three girlfriends from middle school

and the two in the two of you and DeNeil at my wedding. I was like, my girlfriend. Baby, we had so much fun with them in the back of the bus. It was like we were just, at Sophia's wedding, it was like her childhood friends and then us we were all the bad kids in the back of the bus and it was amazing. So fun. But truthfully, I was like weeping because I was like these people

like this is where I learned how to love. And you know, I'm excited for what the future holds, but to be clear I will never be married to my husband for as long as I've been in a relationship with Hillary Burden and Bethany Joy, it's mathematically impossible.

And so I think we need to have cultural messaging about like, don't forget who who got you here. Yeah. You know, like, stick with your girls. You tell your sister who said so. Yeah.

You got it. Right. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the

podcast Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Because you're an honorary drama queen, Amanda, would you like to spin a wheel and do most likely to? It would be an honor. Truly.

Yeah. All right. All right. Now you get to see behind the curtain. This is what it looks like. You just have to make a sound effect right now. What? Most likely to go ahead.

Not have one social media account. Oh, so not be on any social media. So we have to pick a character and also a real life cast member. Keith, Scott. Amanda, do you agree? I agree. Keith's that. I feel like somebody's probably said, like, Keith, you got to get the body shop on Instagram.

And he's like, I don't know what that is. What is a TikTok? I'm not interested. Is he still using like the Nokia flip phone that we have in all the episodes? 100%. So it has like a StarTack from 1999. Yeah, yeah. That would totally be an episode, by the way.

If we were doing this show now and Keith was still alive. it would be like a whole episode of him trying to figure out how to do a TikTok. I would love him on TikTok. Wait, Amanda, is there anyone from our show that's not on social media that you want us to pester? Who's not on?

Who's not on? Or are we all just attention hoars? Is Moira on social media? I don't think so, guys. You nailed it. You got the real life one. No. She's not.

I don't think she is. No. which I think is why I was so emotional when we talked to her, because there was no way to find her. Yeah, we haven't been keeping up. Yeah, no, I think it's her. I love it. Wow.

Okay, well, when you figure out when you're going to Wilmington, let us know because our entire Drama Queen's family is going to be rabid for pictures and information and updates. You just go down there and you throw our names around. Every time you get a reservation, you're like, wow. Sophia Joy and Hillary told me to come. sent me here. They invited me here. Yeah. I said to give me your best table.

Done. Meanwhile, what we got next week? Oh, yeah. What episode are we doing next week, guys? Amanda said it's not good, but... You might know more about it than us. It's episode 312. She said you just got to make it to 13. Oh, I have it. I have it. The next episode, season three, episode 12, is I've got dreams to remember. And perhaps it's an episode we will all want to forget. You're welcome.

we'll see we'll see maybe you'll love it you guys love it i don't know after 11 i desperately hope to love it because today was painful but you really turned it around for us thank you for coming here bringing us some joy thank y'all so much truly i love your podcast i love y'all i think you're incredible so thank you what's your sister's name thank you ariana okay ariana we're looking at you too kid you guys have such a good trip And we'll see all the rest of you next week. Thank you so much. Have a good one. Bye, bye, bye.

Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens O-TH. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dreaming for the right team

Drama queens Dreamer Smart girl Rough girl Fashion but you're tough girl You could sit with us girl Drama queen Drama queens

Drama queens drama queens Drama queens drama queens Drama queens It may look different But native culture is alive My name is Nicole Garcia And on Burn Sage Burn Bridges We aim to explore that culture

Somewhere along the way It turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop That's Dr. Lee Francis the 4th who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.