Drama Queens - Jana Kramer Pours the 'Whiskey' • EP 819

Episode Date: June 16, 2025

It's the OTH scene that hit all the right notes! Jana Kramer joins Sophia and Rob to relive the moment she sang 'Whiskey' on national television.Hear how quickly that performance launched her career in Country Music, and the confession she makes about shooting that scene. Plus, Rob calls out the cringiest moment of the episode, while Sophia remembers thinking the show wouldn't be back for season 9! And, What would an OTH character group chat look like today? Sophia, Rob, and Jana dial in their thoughts on this.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Hey, everybody. Welcome back for another episode of Drama Queens. I am here with Sof and a very special guest. We need a trumpet. What's up? There she is. I was like, don't you say jam. Don't, don't. I was like, Are we going to tease it? Are we going to tease it? Nah. Do people call you Jan? No, what, but my one girlfriend in high school, she always wanted to abbreviate names. Like Lisa was lease, Ash, Rach, like, and she'd be like, Jan. I'm like, no, no. Like, I, it's Jana. Like, I'm not a Jan.

No offense to any Jans out there, but no. Shots fired, Jan Brady. That's what I was going to say. I was going to, I feel like Jan is a particularly tricky one because of the lore of the Brady bunch. There's that and it just is not, I just don't, this is, some names are not abbreviated. Yeah. Like Alex, I don't want to be an owl.

She's not an owl. No. Yeah. You know what I mean? Also, is Janet one of those names that just sort of stopped 40 years ago? Because literally it's Jan, Jan Brady, and then Janet Reno. Like, I don't know. Jackson.

Oh, Janet Jack. Well, again, though, hasn't happened. I mean, she's... A long time. She's it older. Anyways. Fun names. All right, so, Jana, it is.

Also, what a lazy friend. It's one more letter. It's one syllable. Yeah. Yeah. How busy is your day that you can't just muster up the strength to hit that last vowel? Yeah. Ah.

It makes me wonder what your friend would have called Ian. Because we've got Ian Kellerman. I'm like, is he just E? Aye. Aye. Ayah. Terrible. Anyways.

Hi, guys. Hi. How are you doing? So good. So 40s, though. I just got back from a surgery center and he just shot up a, put a needle in my back and put lydicane to see if I'm a candidate for an ablation for my back. Yeah.

Oh, my God. You know, it's like once he hit 40, it's just, you're just, everything just really goes. Yeah. You sneeze, you throw at your back. I know. You laugh. Your knee starts hurting. And having a baby in 40s, like that was, I put the baby down wrong and I pulled my back out and that's where it started.

But to be fair also, though, it's not, you can't compare moms to anyone else. Because when you grow another human being inside of you, it's like your organs get pushed around. your bones shift like what you go through is is insane so like the rest of us it's just normal wear and tear but like what you've done three times yeah yeah i mean that's your body's incredible i think like that's it's amazing to me yeah the women's bodies are crazy but i think it is sweet for for husbands you know like yourself rob you're saying this because i just got back from a movie a week ago and my husband goes i now have so much appreciation for what you do and i realize I need to do more. And I'm like, that's awesome. Thanks for the, you know, because I think, you know,

moms need to feel that. Yeah. And's too, to know that we're doing so much. You know, I think it's interesting, too, because women do so much labor that somehow seems invisible. Yes. Because we're good at juggling so many things. And not saying all the things, too. You know, just doing it. And I think it's really interesting when someone steps into whatever your labor is with your family. family and the house and the organizing and the scheduling and the thing and they're like oh this is this is like three full-time jobs yeah and you make it look easy wow it was fun hats off where did you shoot your movie i was in lexington kentucky and it was so great i love i loved it was so much fun it was with a haley duff directed and she's awesome so fun she's fat i love her i love that for you guys yeah so it's

fun, a little, like, romance horse movie, you know. Oh, what a dream. Sign me up. So cutie. Well, girlfriend, do you want to read our synopsis and tell the fans what episode we're watching today? Absolutely. So, y'all are on season 8, episode 19, where not to look for freedom.

Air date was back in April 26, 2011. Whoa. Oh, my God. While Haley stays at home to take care of the new baby Quinn Organizant. organizes a concert at Trick. Meanwhile, Brooke gets an offer to return to close over bros. And Nathan sets his sights on exposing Professor Kellerman. Dun, don't, don.

Does he ever? Does he ever? Thoughts. What are we thinking, guys? What did you think of this episode? I liked it. I mean, I loved it. Mm-hmm.

Just because it was something I got to put two worlds together. Yeah, you got to debut your music. That was fun. how did that whole thing come about like did you record because I can't remember which is insane considering we were living together at the time but like you were you were recording songs for the album I believe and then did they get to pick what song they wanted you to perform or did your record label pick the song like how did it shake out I had just sent them songs that would that we you know what would be good for the show and there was with

ski, I won't give up. And so those were the ones that they, you know, they wanted for the show that thought that would go with the synopsis of the show. There was another uptempo one that the director loved, but it didn't go with at all the mood of the show. Yeah. Like it was his favorite one. It was really fun, but never, it didn't work for the show. Yeah, because it's so interesting on our show how the song, it's your performance, but then the song also becomes the montage for everyone else's storyline. So it has to do both. It's like the song almost has to be a character. Right. Yeah, it has to, has to, yeah, flow through it, make sense, which I think they did always a really good job on. Yeah. I also liked that they brought back your, how do I say this?

I like that they brought back Alex's thing about making someone else take the shot and taking the lime because playing that with you and Chase and you having a boy with a booze chaser like it brought back this adorable thing that you get to do that also talks about how your character's growing and then we go right into I should have just called him whiskey and it's like it was just perfect for the relationship between you and Steven in as well. Yeah, for sure. Jana, remind me or tell me,

because the show did this odd thing where typically when someone who has musical ability comes on, it's like an immediate thing that you, like at most, I think like Grubbs we waited three episodes or something. Meanwhile, you're, you've been around for an entire season. So when they cast you, when they cast the role, were they looking for someone with musical ability

or did they just hire you and then realize they got totally lucky. No, it was one of those things where, I mean, not at all. There was zero anything about music for Alex. But when I was, since we were so close to Nashville, I had, when I was working on Friday Night Lights and the writer strike happened, I flew to Nashville and started writing with people and trying to get into that world. So being so close to Nashville to Wilmington, I started to. to do some more rights on some of the, you know, the weekends off or days off. And then knowing that our, how do I say, I mean, knowing that our, the person that created the show

was so musical, I wanted to have his ear on, hey, this is kind of what I've been doing. Let me know, you know, your thoughts on it. And that is when I read in the script that it was going to turn musical. So that was all news to me. It was great, though. I was happy about it. This is one of the few instances where emotional vampirism on our show actually was beneficial. Yes. Where stuff was lifted from the personal life without asking.

But in this case, it was great because it got to showcase your musical ability. Well, I mean, it's the only way I was able ever to even get a record deal. Like, I know that. You know, like, there's no doubt if that didn't happen, I would have never gotten a record deal. Wow. Wow. It's so cool. It is so cool, man.

And you know what? It's nice. I mean, it's exactly what you're saying, Rob. There were instances behind the scenes of that stuff that weren't great for people. And it's, I don't know, not to discount any of that, but just to say it's really refreshing to get a silver lining. It's like really nice to go, oh, yeah, it was done not well. And then in this case, because, you know, you very smartly knew, like, like, oh, these people, regardless of, you know, whatever,

have great working taste in good music. And then it turned into a whole thing on the show. It's like, I love that for you. And it was fun to watch because I remember how excited you were at the time. But like, to see the joy on your face that's so obvious, like you are such a talented musician. And for you to get to do this thing that you love, is like, what a cool fucking thing.

It's like, that's why when fans are always like, are we still allowed to love the show? I'm like, there's so much about the show you should love. And like, this is exactly it. Well, and singing whiskey at Trick was actually the first time I ever, I know it wasn't performed live, but that was the first time I ever really performed on a stage in front of people. So, like, that was like, minus when I was like six

at a freaking pageant for the Romeo, Peach, Blossom and I sang Twinkle, Twinkle, Little Star and a rock version. Like, that is the, like, that is the only, that, and it's like when I watch it back. People are still talking about your rendition of Twinkle, twinkle, little star. Big deal. We're all good. But, I mean, when I watch it back, I'm so uncomfortable watching it because I'm like, I know that was my first time ever doing that. And trying to, like, sing with the band behind me.

Like, it's so awkward, but also, like, that was the first time. So the fact that it happened like that on the show, it was, was cool. also it's a testament to your a your business acumen that you were smart enough to realize like I have this thing I'm trying to cultivate would probably be a smart move to just plant a seed yeah and the and the you know the top boss and also to I think the like the courage it takes to like put yourself to go out of your comfort zone to try something new and be prepared potentially to fail you know because it's like you can't grow and you won't No, unless you give it a shot.

In this case, like, dude, most people's first show is at, like, an open mic and a cafe in front of three friends and two strangers. Yours was on national television for the world to see. That's brave. It's cool. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly like

very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world,

influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. How much rehearsal time did you get? Because to your point, you know, you'd been in the studio. Obviously, they take your perfect recording of the song that's going to air on the radio. But that wasn't even, that recording of whiskey was a demo recording.

No. Yeah. So nothing was even what they put out there. That was an all demo. Like we had to kind of record that for the album. Oh my gosh. I didn't realize that. Because in my brain, I'm like, well, yeah, nobody performs live on the show.

You can't. Yeah. You have to shoot it over and over again. everything has to match perfectly. But like, because you hadn't performed in front of people and you were used to just being in the studio, did you get a bunch of rehearsal time to choreograph it? Or were they just like, get up there, let's shoot the scene? Yeah.

We didn't have any. That's why, again, I'm like, I've never done this. Like, this is new. But, you know, you act, right? And I think that's the part, even when I go or what I don't. tour anymore. But when I did, it was, it was the entertainer was always like the actress part of me because that I had to step outside of because I'm not this like, like, real like, I could never do theater because it's not, I have a hard time being big in those areas, especially now.

Like as I get older, I get more introverted and less free, I guess. I don't, not free, but I'm a little more guarded the older I get. So, uh, yeah, being on stage, it's like you have to act and be the entertainer. But it still was uncomfortable because I was like, this is me. It's like, yes, this is Alex, but I'm like, this is me. And that piece of vulnerability was, was, oh, goodness. Well, and also, I mean, you'd never done it. So it's like, you know, when you've never done something, you don't know what to ask for and what's normal. So you're just like, I'm going to take your word for it that this is how it's supposed to go. Right. And it's also like you've got people that are actually good at what, you know, Joy and Kate Vogel and Grubbs. Like all those guys, those are

they've done that for years and so a piece of me didn't feel I mean I wasn't confident in at all it's so it was nice to see when you guys were out there and like you know seeing chantal and going like like okay like at least I have people that I know like I remember writing in the apartment you know with you and Austin it's like I had my writing partner guy over and we're sitting there you know creating songs so it's like you kind of saw the behind the stage so then to have the the support felt nice in that moment. Yeah, well, and to be so far in, like, you know, you had actors that are your scene partners there, bless,

and our crew. Like, I remember coming into work the next day and people be, you know, Peter Kowalski being like, yeah, shut, I seen her. It was great, you know, like stuff like that, which is just, you know, like, you had all those guys, see them on camera, but like all the camera crew and everybody there for you. And it's like

that that's so sweet. I'm glad you had people you'd known who supported you for so long like in the moment. Because can you imagine like if that had been your first episode, I would have I would have like crawled in a hole for you. Yeah, 1,000 percent. Okay. Can I ask you like a technical question about the singing and like touring side? I know now like I see. I see. people talk about their choreographers or their movement coaches or whatever. Like before you went on your first tour, is that the kind of support a record label gives you? Did you work with someone to learn how to feel comfortable on a stage? Or do you just get more comfortable with every show? So we had a choreographer for the very beginning because I did not know what to do. And they just kind

of teach you how to go, okay, at this part of the song, the band guys come with you. Then you guys all walk down and so then so you at least have a structure of what it looks like and then you know now it's like now I'm like when or whenever I did you know go on stage like I'm crazy I'm all over the place and it's fun because I'm just I'm more comfortable with it now but yeah yeah to have that choreography is is so nice because there's a piece of you that goes okay I know that I'm doing this and he's meeting me here and we're going to like you know jam out and yeah have a little step here so that is that that piece was fun It's like blocking a scene.

Yeah. That's really cool. It was fun. And I miss touring, but, you know, it was a, it was an era. When the babies are bigger, will you do it again? No. The quickest of hard passes. I enjoy, this is the thing. I enjoy, my favorite time performing now is at Trick when we do those conventions.

Like, I had so much fun at the last convention that I sang at because any show I ever played anyways, the One Tree Hill fans were always the loudest. And so to always, to come. back to the place that it started, I have so much fun. And there's so much joy and there's so much love love in that room that that's, I'm good with just doing those. I remember all of us shooting a scene and we were, it was between setups. And like, I don't remember what episode. I don't remember the location, but I just have this very vivid memory of you were laying on like a picnic table, Jana, on your cell phone. And you were, you had just got the news that like your single was number one or something. And you were. And you were.

squealing with the light and we were all so happy for you. But it's crazy because I didn't realize though that like this show was the launching pad. I just assumed that this was like something like everyone else on the show that like you'd been doing for ages. But how cool to know that like it was all happening in real time. Yeah, I was doing. I had um, I had showcases around town and I got passed by every label every single one. And it was when I was on the show. And so that was hard. Right. So got past, and then when I won't give up, streamed on iTunes and went to number one is when I got my record deal. Warner's like, actually, wait a second. Isn't that just entertainment in a nutshell

of entertainment industry? Like, it's the least creative bunch. Like, they don't believe in something until you've shown them it. Otherwise, there's like zero vision. Yeah. So, I mean, that's why I'm like, I literally owe one tree hill for, like, the fans. for all of it if they did not stream if the show if i wasn't on the show i know i wouldn't got a record deal and i didn't have it in me enough to to have it be the thing because i obviously love acting and the music is also fun but it's not the thing that i would live and breathe and die for you know like people that are just like fighting fighting fighting tooth and nail every day i'm like ah i would have it just wasn't my full passion so that's why i'm always so grateful

speaking of your love of acting i got to tell you so i i never went back and watch the show like i was very happy to leave it in the past until starting this podcast. And so there's just a lot, so much of it is new to me. Like I remember broadstroke stuff, but the rest of it, I'm just like a first time viewer. But I got to say, watching you in this role, you are so damn good. And maybe just because we had so little like, you licked my face in season seven and like that was it for the show, you know? Because like I just didn't realize how hard you were crushing this role. And also, what an extremely tricky role they gave you because like Alex on paper is the most manic character ever where it's like I love you I want to kill myself we're best friends

what's happening you know like it's nothing but peaks in valleys and you you you were like teflon that like you somehow just it's it we say this about you and Austin you both got handed stuff that I think in the hands of it for almost any other actor would have been real unlikable and hard to watch and you guys somehow managed to get through it and still be charming. So kudos. You really crushed the role and you did a

tremendous service to the show. Thank you. I really appreciate that. That is so sweet of you to say. I mean, obviously you guys are incredible and you guys did amazing in your parts and everything. That's really sweet. That's true. Did you enjoy it?

The show? The role. I love her. And I, I was so scared of her in the beginning because, and I told, because I, I didn't audition for her. I auditioned for Chantelle's part. Oh, that's right. So when I went to producers, they were all in the room. And he was, the creator was like, you, I want you to read for Alex.

And I read the breakdown. I was like, oh, no. No, no, no. Like, that's not me. Like, I, it's, she's an alcohol is. all these things drug, I'm like, I've, I don't know how to relate to that. I'd never been drunk before. I've never, like, I don't know how to relate to this at all. And so then, but then I just read for it. And then, yeah, I ended up getting it. So it was,

but it was so I was scared of it, scared of her at first. And then again, I'm reading her. I'm like, she's so unlikable. And she's, but that was the piece where I'm like, I have to find, I have to find her in me. and then bring a little me in her. So the moment that, you know, when we do the, I always talk about the scene, but when I said, I'm, you know, I'm so, it's so quiet in here. And it's like there are so many pieces of me

that I brought my own stuff into her and then she brought, and I, the fun. And so I just, I miss, I miss playing her. I wish I could play her again because she was fun. She's the most fun. And it's really interesting. I mean, we talked a little bit about this, but, you know, you were saying before we started,

recording, Rob, that you were out when Jana last came on. But it's like, it's not lost on me the parallel journey that we got to take with our characters, because that's exactly how I felt in season one with Brooke. I was like, who is this person? And why does she behave this way? And this is so cuckoo bananas. And like, I don't know anything about boys or high school. I went to an all-girl school with 55 girls in my graduating class. Like, I don't know anything about this world. And I think there's something, when I look at it in hindsight, that's so special about figuring out how to essentially emotionally care for someone that you do not relate to and who when you first read their stuff, maybe you don't even like. And I think there's actually,

like it's dawning on me in this moment as you're saying it, I think there's a magic in that because I think it makes you bring more of yourself to a character in a way in the moments that are unexpected and then I know we both had fun that we'd never had in our real lives playing these women because they were fucking nuts. Right. That's why I'm going to play her again.

I'm like, man, I got to loosen up and like have fun and just be silly. Well, and it requires you to flex your empathy, right? Because the easy thing to do when you read Alex is you judge the shit out of that character. It's like, all right. And then you make lazy choices that are going to make her very unlikable.

The challenge is... Just trying to steal someone's love and... Yeah. Okay, that's easy. You can do that in your sleep, you know? But the challenge is, like I said, to be empathetic and to find likable things in her and then make it challenging for the audience

to just decide if they like her or hate her, you know, because it's like the best characters, right? That's what it is. It's like they muddy the waters. So that's not all one thing. They're not all great. It's like a flawed hero, but they're like redeeming villain, you know.

Yeah. Which she had lots of... I mean, that's all, like I said, dude, every, it was a whiplash watching you in season seven because it's like, dude, what is happening? I was like they had two separate writers writing the character, but they weren't allowed to communicate about what they're writing in each episode. What? Oh. No, I'm saying it's like that. Oh, it's like that.

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. Because it's like, oh, this scene, she's totally grounded and likable and she's awesome. And it's like, and then the next scene, she's a psychopath. Yes. I still can't believe that you were almost Quinn. I did not realize this. Yeah.

It's so crazy. I know. Oh my gosh. Dude. Oh my gosh. But Chantal like crushed that part. For sure. It makes sense now.

Like looking back, it all makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Well, that's the thing. Everybody wound up in exactly the place they were supposed to. It's definitely that thing where you go, oh yeah, the casting process works really well. And I think especially back then, because to your point, we were all. all doing all this stuff in person.

People could get a sense of your energy and pivot. Like, tapes are so stupid and horrible. To be in the room is where the magic happens. Yeah. I'm not great at self-tapes. I'm terrible at them. And it's, I'll take direction. That's the thing.

And you'll get to know my personality and the vibe. And that's where I've always said I win in a room, but I do not win on tape. It's really hard for me. Same, dude. I loved a. room like especially if you're doing anything like comedy oh my gosh dude try doing comedy to a zoom full of black squares with their mics turned off it's like am i crushing it's crickets what's happening you know what i mean like uh it's the worst i'm with you yeah i also find it's so weird

that they want us to do that stuff now because the whole point is the thing that happens in the room like someone does something unexpected you have a moment of chemistry there's a there's a unscripted laugh. There's like, there's a thing where you go like, oh, that. That's, that's getting a little sparkly. And when you're home alone, you know, tape it on your computer, it's like, nothing's happening. I've actually had Austin read a few for me because it's like I need to have some sort of like, like my husband is amazing at off-camera reading, but to have that already built in connection with someone that, like, you've worked with before and you kind of get each other, it's, it, that helps me a little bit more. Yeah. But I always hate to, like, bother people to

for like a self-tape. Totally. This thing I'm, uh, I currently working on, we're in the casting process and I, it's, it's, I love being on the other side of it, right? Like, my, one of my very first acting teachers said, if you really want to get good as an actor, uh, volunteer for a casting session. And she was right. And, and, but I will say, like, having watched these tapes, it's very clear the people who like had a friend call on over the phone who pre-taped the other lines and I got the worst though the worst is when it's a very bad reader it is so distracting like like either they're trying to act or they're just leaving in these pauses and I'm like you are you're killing this person's tape but again like if we were just in a room that would never happen yeah yeah oh that's the only thing

about 2020 that I just don't, didn't, didn't love. That was all. One of the things. Let's clip that. Let's make that the sound by of this episode, guys. Perfect. But I totally agree with you, Rob. It's like the thing I enjoy doing the most now is going in and reading with everyone who's

going to come on to a project that I'm on. Yes. Like my favorite part, you know, we only did the show for a season because it turns out one of the other things you shouldn't do in a medical pandemic is launch a new medical show. Old ones are comfort shows. New ones are fresh hell for people who are stuck in hospitals. But like the best part of that journey was I read everyone. Every single person the producers wanted to see. I spent like a week on the CBS lot just in the room with people and like I will never forget when Sky came in. Everyone when she left the room was like, I can't explain what

happen like you two sparkled together like we just had such great chemistry and the and the history and the friendship and the thing like it it just clicked for us and she's literally been one of my best friends ever since and it's so I never would have had that experience if I'd been watching her like on my laptop being like she seems nice who's next like I don't know and it's I don't know the whole thing of it is just so special I hope we get back to it Oh, yes. But then again, everyone's moved so much, so that's the only piece, too. I'm like, as much as I don't want to move back to L.A., but anyways.

I know. That's the hard thing, too, right? It's like, it's just shifted. Yeah. I did a chemistry read over Zoom, and I don't know what kind of chemistry you're supposed to have, staring at yourself in a computer screen, but. Yeah. Weird times, my friends.

Hey, should we talk about an episode of this show? Yeah, so I actually have a question that I have never, because I know you like fashion, so. but did you want to have your own store? Was that a piece of something that you got to control or no? No, not at all. Okay. I think if our show had been on five to ten years later,

I think some really smart person would have been like, oh, let's actually launch you a line while whatever. Yeah. I love it. The irony, I think, for me is I'm really drawn to the art of it and what you can communicate with it, but I wore a uniform for my whole life. So actually having to get dressed

when I don't have a fitting or I'm not playing a character and putting on a costume is very stressful for me. I do not enjoy it. And so it's weird. It's like I can put things together. I'm really good at dressing my friends.

But when it comes to me, it's like everything goes blank. So it was fun to play Brooke because I got to figure out what she looked like. For the listener at home, Sophia is just draped in a bed sheet. That is what she's wearing right now.

You're not on YouTube. I'd you imagine. Yeah. It's just you and a beach towel every day, just a different beach towel. I can't do it. I don't like it. I wear a robe. Mm-hmm.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of

reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, let's talk about this app. Yeah. I, okay, listen, can I just get way ahead and, and, and, and, you know, I just get way ahead and, and,

ask if either of you guys were confused by this. There's a very questionable line. Go for it. Ian Kellerman. Nathan and Clay are sitting at the bar. And Ian toasts. And he says, first off, congrats on the baby. Very strong.

Tell her to come see me in about 17 years. And Clay and Nathan are just kind of like quiet. Like, oh, that's so, Ian. What the fuck? what the fuck i don't know how and there's i've because i've listened back to you know some of y'all's episodes and some of the lines and i've seen the clips online i am just so shocked that because in that moment i don't think i would have i don't know like it's just like how is that even being said also is there is there a layer joke that he's that ian's an idiot and terrible at math

why wouldn't you just say 18 like what but it's still horrible but like Like to go out of your way and make it 17 is like, hey, let's just throw an extra dash of creepy pito and the horrible line. What? It's because our creepy boss really, and it started in season three, really wanted to reinforce that the age of consent, despite it being wildly inappropriate and clearly set into law by older men, the age of consent. despite it being wildly inappropriate and clearly set into law by older men, the age of consent in North Carolina is 17. Stop.

Mm-hmm. Oh, this is news to me. Oh, that's even worse. It's even worse. Oh, no. Yeah, it's like a very on-purpose, gross, just gross thing. In that moment, though, while you were in the scene,

Did you... No, here's the first of all. I have zero recollection of this scene. But watching this as an adult, I was like, where were you, bud? I mean, to be fair, I was in my late 20s, so I probably, you know, like, I'm a parent now. It's very, very different. But yeah, I guess it was just maybe we were rushing or what, but the fact that, like, no one, I wish one of the adults on set would have gone like, hey, like, even just told Nathan. Nathan, because Nathan's a dad at this point, like, hey, maybe you should just like check that, even with just a look, because if someone said that to me in real life?

Yeah. You know, it's like, there's no way you don't go like, the fuck is wrong with you. Yeah, totally. It's not funny. It's creepy. It's inappropriate. It's disrespectful. It's like, what?

Yeah, everything about it is really, really gross. I will say, watching you guys do it, I thought you, you, it looked to me as a viewer. like you both made the choice to just go blank and not acknowledge it. And not that that's the right choice but it read as a choice to like, uh-uh, we're not

contributing to this conversation to me because you already have complaints about his behavior in this episode and in prior episodes. But yeah, you're right. It would have been nice if you two had had something. Well, it works because of the fact that he's a new potential cash cow

and we're a growing business and upstart however we're an agency supposedly built on integrity and morals so it just would have been nice to have some like even if Clay was just like dial it down dial it down yeah you know like

just just some sort of acknowledgement of like that was creepy and weird cool your jets that's not that's not that's one of the ones you keep up top yeah the reality is whether it's someone Clay and Nathan's age I don't know you know what are we 25 by now on the show

or a senior in college if a senior in college is trying to hook up with a with a girl who's still in high school like we have a problem yeah we just have a problem but I also think there was

the reality to your point like we'd been at this with the writer of our show for so long that I think everyone was starting to just tune it out because it was kind of the only way to get through work right like you had to just kind of go like, okay, you're gross, you've been gross for so many years.

Okay, well, we're having a nice time at work the rest of us. Like, what are you going to do? Yeah. I had one other moment that was almost as cringy, but actually not at all. It wasn't. This is a playful cringe. So Julian comes back to the spot with a bag of ice cream for Brooke, sweet move. And what do you do, he got one of every flavor.

He's my kind of guy. right, right? Here's where he loses me. He opens one up. He dips his finger in and then eats off of it and then dips his finger back in again and feeds you. Listen, I know like your partner, you kiss, you know, you share fluids, whatever. God, that sounded so gross. But like there is just something so barbaric about get a spoon. Why are you dipping your finger into ice cream? I don't think there's anything sexy about it. Thank you. I didn't either. I thought maybe I was out of touch. No, no, no. But I'm also like a germaphobe. Well, same.

Same. By the way, you get home with things from outside. The first thing you have to do is wash your hands. Yeah, but like my husband is not like, he'll be like at a gas station and then come back. And then it'll be like, and I'm like, you wash your hands. You know what I mean? Because it's like. Yeah.

Or you touch anything. And he's like, you know, everywhere. Yeah. I will say, and here's a little bit of the tea. If my memory serves me correctly, and I believe it does, it was scripted for him to do it to me. And Austin was like, let me go ahead and go first. So this is less gross. Because, you know, it's a, if he had just come in and done that and stuck his finger in my mouth, like, it's a very phallic gesture I did obviously not get to consent to.

and I really treasure him for being like let's make this cute and funny and like he did it first and then he did it to me and we made it really like goofy and awkward and I didn't like do the sexy mouth thing I was like like it's melting like we made it as

as opposite of what was on the page as possible and I do per the references to the you know creepy things written for many of us whether we like them or not, to say or do. I love that we all, by this point, had figured out, like, write whatever the fuck you want. We're going to do it a little differently. And I thought that as much as, yes, I would have loved in real time to have seen him come into the house and wash his hands and then open the food, I think we made the best of an uncomfortable situation.

Right. Yeah. That makes sense. And grab a spoon. Just, yeah. Just wash your hands. Or grab a spoon. You might as well just open the container and just lick the ice cream.

That's what you're doing. Put it in your face. Yeah. Yeah. By the way, opening the container and licking the ice cream is less gross than sticking your finger in it. Agreed. Because you're sort of using the container as an ice cream cone. Again, just grab a spoon.

You can save all the other stuff. That's actually the title of this episode. Grab a spoon. Grab a spoon. There it is. What did you guys think? I was very confused this episode. when I had heard the name Fidians for like the 32nd time.

I was like, did we have like a product endorsement? What is happening? And then obviously we find out why later. But talk about Chekhov's gun. I mean, we said that name about 13 times this episode. We sure did. And I will say when I started to watch it, I'd put it on. And then I ran to grab something and came back in and was like, wait a second, hold on.

because I could tell that the recap was important. And they did that long pause on the insert of that bourbon bottle. I went and rewound it and started over. And I was like, ah, they really want to hammer home. Who's into it? Who drinks it? That the bourbon is the clue. Yeah.

It would have been great in hindsight if his drink that we were going to make a meal out of was like peach schnops. Like this total dude bro, it would have been amazing if it was just like white blueberry, white claws or something like really, really. Yes. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I gave him whiskey. But yeah. Yeah. What was your favorite part of the episode?

Well, listen, there's a lot of good. There's a lot of great in it too. I just had to get ahead because those ones I was like, wait, what? Yeah, yeah, for sure. This was another classic example of you and Chantel. being total team players with the whole eye of the tiger you know she's had to like she's had to do so many it was like they realized she would be game and she was a team player and would commit and she's also very funny and then i feel like they just went back to the well a lot a lot a lot and yeah yeah and so

it's like it happens in this episode it happens in the next episode and but like you guys made it Great. I just watched it going like, oh, I know. I know this feeling of when you get a script for the next episode and you read it and you're just like, oh. Yeah. For sure. Okay. But your guys' stuff was great. I love the friendship forming between Alex and Quinn.

Yeah, it's sweet. It's like you get to see more of what we saw at Brooke and Julian's wedding with you too. And it's nice. And it's like, I think they, you know, they hit a place. point where they were like, oh, yeah, we can't just constantly put her in these terribly awkward positions like Utah, you know, stomping around in town, essentially in her underwear. Like, come on. She's a great performer. And like, yes, she's a supermodel, but let her be an actor too. And it's nice that they, that I think they sort of course corrected and went, oh, we can actually

give her the space to be a comedian and undercut some of what we've like made her go through in the past and and it's fun to watch somebody as tall and beautiful as her lean into like being lanky and awkward you know lean into singing off pitch so that in the next scene when you sing the song perfectly to her she's like yep cool different skill sets like she played it up so that it all could really sing and it's fun to see two beautiful women who have been so, you know, frankly, sexualized on a show like ours, get to be goofy and sweet together. It's like a fucking breath of fresh air. Yeah. No, I agree. And it's fun to see because even so a lot of things that you know, Chantal is on is like really deep and heavy and she's so talented. So it's nice to,

But she has, like, such a light art of her, too, with acting. And she's so good at it. I felt like there was a lot of that with Alex where it, like I said, it just became the, like, high, high and low, low show. And then we got, we got, we got, I remember the first time we got to see where it was like, you just got to, like, you just got to be a vulnerable human. And you were so great in it. And I felt myself going, like, this, this should be the norm. And the other thing should be the outlier. like this should be like the meat and the other stuff should be the like okay on occasion we're

going to dip into this you know because it's it's just to me it was like this the other person this person's great at this other thing but like they're really shining in this moment why are we not letting this happen more often and I feel like so much of Alex is kind of just there to be like I'm a tease I'm out of control I'm a wildcard bitches it's like okay cool. I can tie a cherry tongue in my mouth. Yeah, but then you get this moment where you get to see her as a human. You're like, oh, she's totally likable and relatable.

And I'd like more of this version of the character. Yeah, and it feels like we're hitting a nice stride with that. With what you were saying earlier, you getting to bring more of yourself into her. It feels like that's in really nice balance in this chunk of season eight. Yeah, I wish, you know, obviously when the seasons go on and stuff. But yeah, I wish I had more time with her to keep kind of finding that path with her. But it was a fun ride. You also have great chemistry with Stephen.

Stephen's great. You guys are so sweet together. Like I said, I'm watching this basically as a first time viewer. So I have to say, I think I remember how. Actually, I don't really know how it ends for you guys. guys, but I just, I know that I am hardcore rooting for Chase and Alex over Chase and Mia. And I've only seen up to 820. And obviously, I know things are very good for you guys in 820.

So I don't know where it goes from there. But yeah, your guys' chemistry is so fun, man. He's great. And he was, he was awesome back then, too. Always felt so comfortable with him. He wasn't, you know, he's just like, he's a good, solid dude. And even to this day, I mean, he's just, he's always. such a nice, respectable guy.

Yeah. I always, I loved working with him. He's a good egg, man. He's a really good egg. Oh, jinks. Whoa. Whoa. But he is.

Stephen is a good egg. And like, even to see, he brought such a kind of fresh vulnerability when he first came on the show and hadn't, you know, been acting before and was a little nervous about it, but was just so damn charming. And to even see the actor he's grown into across these four seasons. It's like, God, he's so enjoyable to watch. And I feel the same way like watching him and James's show. They're just so great.

There's a natural charm to him, especially with their new show too. Yeah. Yeah, it's like he's just, he's a natural, he's got a natural vibe to him. I like him. Yeah, he's a good egg. he grew up a lot on our show and I think you see it in his acting I'm saying he grew up like personally like knowing him as a friend he grew up on our show and I think when you watch the show at least for me like knowing how he was growing behind the scenes that like I think I see it in his performance and that it is more grounded and yeah he's just he's fun to watch and I'm glad that we're getting more of him this season but yeah your guys of stuff I thought you were just like a temptation and then I it was back to the Chasing Mia show. So I am I'm pleasantly surprised with the directions.

I have no idea. Buddy, I don't, I have no idea how your story wraps up. Honestly, I didn't even realize, so I didn't realize that Brooke got pregnant. So, sorry for those who haven't watched a show.

I got to be honest. I really don't. I mean, it was kind of, it was all kind of a blur. Yeah. So I'm, I'm going to be totally,

uh, first timer with however your thing wraps up. But I had a feeling I'm going to have my heart broken. But I'm like it. So, far okay wait you asked for things that we liked about the episode yes i love seeing the river court challenge come in because it reminded me i i kind of honestly forgot that that was a storyline and when these you know condominiums coming soon when that sign goes up i was like oh my god

yes there's this thing to rally around and you do get that sense you know everyone thought the show was going to be over at the end of season eight. And so it feels like there's all this conversation about, you know, things changing, what's going to happen? Are Brooke and Julian going to go to New York? Like, are you and Chase going to be together? You know, what is, what is Haley reflecting on as she's at home with the baby and watching everyone process things, deal with things?

Like, it feels like a wrap-up is coming in this really beautiful way. Like, even though some of what's happening in the episode is heavy, Rivercourt might get destroyed, you know, Brooke has to pack up all this baby stuff, like can't even look at Julian. That was such, you know, a great call on our director's part to have him hug me from behind and we're both processing because we can't see, we don't want to see what the other person's dealing with in the moment, right? We're trying to hide how sad we are. Like, some of it feels really heavy, but in a weird way that my overarching note about that. episode is how nostalgic it feels and I love it. Even the sad stuff I really, really liked watching. It was, it reminded me or actually it made me sad for TV shows now because it's like what you were saying. I was watching a show premiered last night and I was like, rough. You know, so this was a, this was a not a good new episode or season, you know, start or whatever. And, and then you watch that and it's like, it just, There's that nostalgia that you're talking about,

and it's like I miss that in shows. The writing, the, you know, it's just, I don't know, minus a few of the parts, obviously, but. No, but there was something about the time, and I know what you mean. We were allowed to be people and our feelings. Not everything was like a disaster or a zombie or a crisis or a, like, our show, I think, was special reflecting back on it

because it was just about people. Yeah. And it wasn't trying too hard. to be this or adding this and to be that or just trying to please everything. It was just, you're just pleasing your audience. I thought a highlight was your song. Yeah. It's, it's cool to watch, you know, watch a buddy shine and, uh, you crushed it. That's crazy. This was like your first time performing, but I was uncomfortable watching it again, because I know how uncomfortable I felt doing it. Yeah. But, and it's like, oh, God, you could just tell her, because now I'm like,

I am all over the place, you know, and it was just, but again, I think that was perfect for what she needed to do in that moment because that was new for her too. Yeah. Yes. Well, and even the fact that we got that great scene with you and Stephen in the back, like the green room of trick, when you're like, I'm panicking. Like, I need a boy and a drink. I know whatever you're saying.

It's like it's so great because the whole thing fuels it. And of course, you as a performer know how nervous you were. But for us as the viewers, it didn't look like that. It looked like you were stepping into this thing that you are supposed to do. but I get it. Like when we first started watching this show and I had to watch early Brooke Davis being like

the sexy girl in the backseat of a car. I was like, who is that person? She is so cranched. I like didn't know how to move my body. It was just, it was not correct. Well, I think it's hard to look back. I mean, there's so many things I look back on now and I'm like, oh God, I sucked.

Like, because I've, but I've grown as not only an actor but as a person, I think growing in those areas, helps you be a better actor. So it's like because of the stuff that I've gone through and work through and it's like where I can tap into things

a little better. And so it's just, it's more grounded. And I look back on old things and I'm like so not grounded and on my feet with it. So it doesn't feel real. It might look good

or be believable, but it doesn't feel real to me because I know that I wasn't like planted in my scenes the way that I would have wanted to where I am today. Like I can walk away and go like I did good

because I was planted in that scene. I knew what I was doing. I, like, tapped in and I felt good about it. But, like, I didn't feel that back in my 20s. Because I was still learning. I still really didn't know what I was doing. I mean, I feel like that's true for all of us, though. Okay, good.

So that's not just me. Because I'm like, I love you. I'm like, you're amazing. You guys have always been amazing and you were so good and you felt so confident. I'm telling you, I and I will offer this up. You want a confidence boost. You need to watch, like, the third episode of season one,

and you will cackleck. Like, you will be like, I know her and she does not push like that. I was so like, I have to do it. And they keep telling me to be bigger. And like, I want to die. I want to die. And I remember, I can like hear our directors being like, you got to be bigger.

You got to like really go for it and being like, okay. And it was not correct. Yeah. But I think to your point, like, that's part of the gift of hindsight. It's like we can see how much more comfortable we are in ourselves. We can see how much, how much, how much, much more we key into the people, not necessarily like wanting to go to work and be a good soldier and give a good performance. It's just a different energy. Yeah. And I think we see things

differently. I mean, you know, even you saying, Rob, like that line hitting you the way it did because of the man you are at 40, it's like, you know, we couldn't, we couldn't have been here in our 20s. Yeah. And Jenna, I had the exact same experience. Because also, I, I, I'm because you know like I'm a goofy guy and all of a sudden I came into this show and they were like your wife's dead as hell and trauma trauma trauma and I was just I felt like so out of my depth right because was lipstick jungle before yeah okay yeah because like you were just like the hot you know the whatever the hot dude on that and like you were like that's your thing swave guy yeah swave and like yeah which even by the way like that's also uncomfortable because again like I'm a goofy guy I'm not like a dude like you like a dude like like this show like no that's that's not me you know but i had so i felt like way out of my depth on this one and then when they like four episodes in they're like oh his wife's dead and we're going to shoot you like we're going to shoot her death scene and we're going to shoot the funeral and i cringed so hard watch that episode because i felt like i was watching a little kid

put on his dad's suit and pretend to be a grown-up meanwhile jo and so for like that that was not our experience you know because like you said I remember how I felt at the time. Like, I felt like an absolute fraud. I was pushing so hard because at that time, in my head, the only way to show sadness was to show tears. Right. You know, and so I think it's an incredibly common thing. Okay, good.

Well, then I feel a little better now because I just, like, cringe every time. Someone's like, oh, I just saw your last episode of Grazing out of me. I'm like, I am so sorry. That was terrible. No. There was a hilarious scene in this episode. I don't know if, I hope you guys caught it. But it's Haley and Quinn are in the nursery, and they're, like, chatting up baby Lydia.

And then Haley goes, okay, let's let her sleep. And she leaves her there. And they walk out of the bedroom. She doesn't close the blinds. She doesn't turn the lights off. It is literally the brightest room in the history of rooms. And she's like, this seems good. Yeah, no sound machine.

No sound machine. Also, it's like, dude, we had to, like, if there was a speck of light coming and our son would not sleep. It's like, that's like every parent's nightmare. Like, how do I black this room out? Oh, I have blackout curtains, and it's like, black on blackout.

Like, and I tape that, like, there is no light in that. I was like, if you can see your hand, it ain't dark enough. Like, that's my, put the hand out, see it, no. Yeah, pitch dark, gaffers tape over every little, a lot of light. Yeah, bathrooms and hotels are great for the crib. Just, yep.

Full darkness. the time or a closet new kind of clip that one as well Easton that will also be the second sound bite for this episode listen

any mama would know that trick yeah I can't wait for the Yahoo News headline or the BuzzFeed headline it's like Jana Kramer

says put your baby in a closet listen dark hey you do what works so that scene made me laugh

because I'm like she's also a parent already so it's like she knows the ropes come on guys. Yeah. It's like one of those things where they just don't care because they're like, yeah, if it was actually a dark enough room for a baby to sleep, you wouldn't be able to see the

baby. Yeah. Right. And this is a television show. So we're going to light it up like the 4th of July in here. Also, have you ever put an infant down to sleep when it's not already asleep? No. Like you hold them until they're asleep and then you like Mission Impossible try to transfer them. I don't do that. I put him in the crib awake. And let him soothe and learn. Because then you're always going to have to rock them to sleep to put them down. But again, everyone does it differently.

But I've never, yeah, we're not a, we're not a rock sooth down. It's just a boop in your bed. Okay. Good for you. Because I got to say, I spent a lot of time on the rocking train, my friend. I get it. I get it. I did the first, too.

It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges,

we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. All right. Shall we, should we hop into a listener question? I think we should. What do we got? Jana, do you want to read it or do you want me to take it?

Sure. This is from Lisa. If the characters of One Tree Hill had a group chat today, who would send the most memes, who would leave the chat, and who would constantly change the group name. That's great. This is such a good question.

Are you guys a lot of? to say who would leave the chat? Yeah. Who would leave the chat? Oh, I thought you were asking if, oh, oh, yeah. Yeah, the characters. Oh, the character. Yeah, it's the characters.

Okay, okay. Easy, easy, easy. I was like, well, I would say the most memes. I do always Kardashian memes of, like, Chloe or someone. Oh, my God, amazing. I know. I was going to say, when we first started to read the question, I was like, Rob also is a meme guy.

But characters, okay, I feel, I feel like Nathan, then would have no time for the group chat. He'd be like, I don't, guys, I can't. Like, I just think, I think he would be the person who would stay in it, but would put it on mute and just check it when he wants to. I feel like Haley would leave. She's a mom. She's got a lot going on. She's like, I don't want to deal with anybody's drama or don't care.

I could see Julian sending a lot of memes. I like that. Julian memes, yes. Clay as well. I would probably change the name a lot, just like to be dumb and silly and I don't know. I would actually love to see Alex's title for the group chat. Hot bitches. Yes.

Oh my God, I love. Yeah. Honorable mention, I'm just going to jump in. It's you, Jana, and premiering your song. Yes. Especially knowing that this was like the kickoff of everything that was to come, man. That's so freaking cool. Thank you so much.

I appreciate that. It's so cool. I fully agree. And also a little like behind the scenes, honorable mention to piggyback on this for you. I remember when this stuff started to shift and to your point, like the whole record deal, everything started going. People don't know how hard you were working because you would be in Wilmington with us on set. They would shuffle the schedule. I mean, we'd like get you from work to the airport and then you'd go and work in Nashville and then

you'd fly back to come to work and like you were on that rotation seven days a week doing the thing chasing the dream and like that's the stuff most people don't see but we got to see it especially like you'd get home and I'd hear your keys in the apartment door and it'd be like it's Thursday night she's back like you know you just never know when someone's on that kind of rotation. And it was really cool to watch you just like lean all the way in. Thanks, girl. I appreciate it. Yeah. Thanks for the love. You guys are so sweet. It was an honor to to work with all of you guys. So the best. Thank you. Shall we spin a wheel? Oh, a love fest into a wheel spin. Give it to me. Yeah, buddy. Hey.

Most likely to run for office and win. Clay. Really? Yeah. You're like the agent and... The business guy. The business guy? Yeah.

I accept your nomination. You trust for the energy. I like that. And if it's real life, I'm going to say so. You sweet soul. Well, obviously, 1,000%. Yeah. That's a no-brainer.

There we go, girl. Let's do it. Jana, thank you for coming, man. Thanks for having me, guys. I appreciate it. Thanks, friend. All right. I'll see you soon.

Next week, we've got season eight, episode 20, the man who sailed around his soul. Bye. See you then. Bye, guys. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens OTH.

Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast. Thank you.