Drama Queens - Justice League of Dads • EP 910

Episode Date: October 6, 2025

This week it’s all about the hero dads of Tree Hill. Dan Scott steps into full action-hero mode to save Nathan, but not without the help of the unlikely “Avengers” team-up we never saw coming. The Queens also dig into why Brooke’s storyline left them frustrated, and Sophia sadly reckons with the truths of dealing with a stalker onscreen l versus off.Has Dan Scott ever looked so hot?!? And of course, there’s an emotional twist that reminds us why these fatherhood arcs hit so hard.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

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Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl.

You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama, drama queens. Guys, did we just become an action movie? We did. My stomach was in knots this whole episode. Wait, really? Did you not remember? No.

Oh, that's fun. Same. I did not. Yeah, well, Rob, you. Oh, yeah, because, well, you were in it, but you weren't watching any of these. So we have, none of us have seen these. since... No.

Oh, I mean, this episode was the Our Men are movie stars episodes. Yes. Yes. For sure. Yes. In every way. Like, Rob, you sitting by Sarah's grave? Oh, my God.

In that suit. It was such old movie star vibes. I was dying. It was all so good. Wait, somebody read the synopsis. Okay, okay, okay, okay, hold on. Before we dive in, season nine, episode 10, hardcore will never die, but you will. That deserves a dun-ton.

air date March 14th, 2012. This is so crazy that these episodes were airing after we'd all left Wilmington, by the way. Whoa. Oh, yeah. Okay, okay, sorry. Back to the synopsis. Dan, Julian, and Chris Keller attempt to rescue Nathan. Brooks' conflict with Xavier escalates Quinn and Clay revisit the past.

This was so wild. Total bridle on a shark. But I loved it. I loved it. I loved every second, even the seconds that I hated, like all this stuff with Brooke that was so hard to watch. But I just was so proud of us and how we got through all of it. I mean, we'll hit every point. But wow, wow, wow, wow. What a great episode. To your point, though, about all of that, I know now one moment that shocked you near the end because you didn't remember what was happening. There was a beat that we'll get to. but you'll know, where I was like, oh my God, I would kill to be seeing this as an audience member who doesn't know

that's a bait and switch. Because I thought about the feeling of like, no! And just every single bit of the episode, to your point, was done so well. From action movie to like rom-com leading man, Rob, I had the same vibe for you at Sarah's grave. And I just the whole time was like, God, this is great.

Every single one of these people is great. All these directing choices are great. It was so much fun to watch this episode and be surprised by some things and then wish that I was seeing it for the first time at other moments. Wait, my brain, what has happened to me? Because I remember a moment where I audibly gasped. I was not expected, but I can't remember what it was now. It's when you think Nathan gets shot. And then it's Dimitri.

Oh, yeah, in the chair. Thinking like, oh, my God, they just killed him, like, as revenge. And I literally was like, God, that must have been so fun for the audience to watch and think it was Nathan. Yeah. I loved that. The whole episode was great, right? However, the logic police broke down the door for me on that one because I was, I found myself going, we watched Dan walk in by himself. And then we watched Dan walk in holding nothing but a gun.

And I'm like, so I loved the idea. And then you could tell they tried to do the band. Band-aid fix of Dan going, yeah, I carried that drug dealer in all by myself. I'm like, so we just happened to catch the moments you set him down and then, like, yeah, that was the one part where I'm like, come on. We needed a couple extra shots to explain that. Yes. Just a few.

Yes. Even if Chris Keller had been in charge of him, I would have believed that. That's all I really needed was like Chris dragging this guy around. Okay, let's rewind and go back to the start of the episode. We're going to get to that spot. but the opening with Dan and Julian having a conversation over a body in the trunk. This, I didn't know that Dan, Julian, and Chris Keller was the hijinks action movie. Yes.

That I desperately needed. Yes. I want it. I want so much more of those three. Oh my gosh. The, the alchemy between the three of them, it's like comedic umami. Yeah. They work off each other.

so well. Yeah. And some of the dialogue was just, like, at one point, Chris goes, Chris Keller's too pretty to go to prison. And Julian goes, that's what I said, referring to himself, obviously. And Chris Keller in earnest goes, you said Chris Keller was pretty? Brilliant. So fun, man.

All of it was so fun. And watching the volley between Dan and Julian, all of it is great. Julian's like, you said it was nothing illegal. That's a dead guy. And he's like, well, do you know, he's not dead? It's like, yeah, okay, because kidnapping's less illegal. And you watch this banter and they're having this amazing two-hander and Chris popping up as the surprise. And then repeating things, Julian said, like just absolute comedic gold.

They built it in a way. It's like they built a pyramid. It was so well done. And to your point, all I wanted was more of it. It's like, God, we only have a few more episodes. And obviously, they're going to rescue Nathan in this one, which yay for Nathan and Haley. But I want more Dan, Julian, and Chris. They should have started that two episodes ago.

Exactly. I needed all of that. That's kind of hard to do, by the way, what they were all doing. Well, let me start by saying, I was grateful that when we opened on all that stuff, the way that the cameras were positioned and the types of shots, at least we were kind of making fun of ourselves for. how ridiculous it's all gotten. I felt like just the sheer positioning of the cameras was like, what I want to know. Like here we go.

We're doing our show. And it was fun. But what's so hard, I think, as an actor, is to play really heightened dramatic stuff like that in comedy, like it's realistic, which makes it funny if you're, if you really just stay as dropped in as possible and be like, I would be reacting this way to such extraordinary circumstances, but to also then switch into some really dramatic vulnerable moments that they had with each other, even in the middle of some of these comedy lines. There was a moment when Tyler is talking to Paul, sorry, Chris is talking to Dan, and Chris

sort of loses all his pretense. I can't remember what were they saying. I should have written this down, but he was talking to Dan about, do you guys remember this? It was sort of like a cowboy shot. on Tyler, and it was, he was going in on Dan about something, and Dan turns around and gives it back to him. You don't know what I'm talking about? Wait, was this, was this when they were talking about, Dan goes after, Dan goes after Chris saying, you've got a crush on Haley, you want Nathan to stay gone, and then Chris gives it back, and is like, no, you do, because you're going to lose your family, your grandkids, like, yeah, it's like very real stuff that they're talking about. This is not just like shenanigans. They're right.

really going after each other. Yeah, that's hard to do. It felt great. Well, can we, real quick, I have a question for you, Joy, because I don't, can you explain to me how the use of the camera sort of had us, like, poking fun at ourselves? Okay, it was a bright colors, first of all. It felt like there was a lot of light in the room and the colors were really bright, which was a contrast to a lot of the dark, seedy, like we're trying to be realistic about

this kidnapping stuff. So that was what I noticed first. And then there's this almost like a fish eye lens on one of the cameras where the way that they're leaning in, it just felt like a comedy. Those are shots that you see in the hangover. Exactly. Yeah. And it's like if you think the usual suspects or any kind of who done it or mob movie where they're shooting up through the trunk of the car, usually people are leaning in close, but it's not also a fish eye. and I thought it was the the fish eye shot up at Dan and Julian through the trunk of the car

makes it a little funny because it's an exaggerated lens and then even when they did the thing like it made they looked so great and hot and leading man but even when they did the thing where they reached in for Dimitri like this and all the hands came in from the side it was funny And I was like, wow, they're really nailing the balance of the action and the comedy. It's a little like city slickers. Yes. And Nathan's kidnapper, the Shakespeare guy, they did the same shot on him. So he's leaning in and he's doing it.

It was like, what was that movie with Josh Hartnett, Sevens? Oh, Lucky Number Sleven? Yeah, Lucky Number Sleven. Like there was some vibes about that that I noticed. Yeah. So hopefully that answers your question. There's like a comedy in the camera. Yes, and one small beef with that first scene with the kidnapper is,

so you're going to tell me this gangster who is clearly very well read because he's reciting Shakespeare left and right, he doesn't know one of the most popular expressions in the world of say cheese. He says, say the cheese. Yeah, it's like they made him borat. You've made this guy so well read. And then he doesn't know say cheese. cheese. Say the cheese. It's a very minor gripe, but I bumped for a moment, was like, come on.

That's really funny. You know, you know what's interesting, and you're right, it's, when you're really paying attention, as obviously we do, because we're analyzing this show together, those things stand out. And one of the things I've been loving about this, I think because we are having so much fun with season nine, is the stuff that I'm like, God, I like that they did that. You know, Some of it's patently ridiculous, but I loved how when they're having this whole experience together, Dan and Julian and Chris, again, I want the whole movie, I really liked that they had Julian kind of do a figurative, like, shake Dan by the shoulders and be like, do you understand how real this is? The guns and the kidnapping. And like, he's really trying to say the thing that no one ever says in an action movie, which is like, this is insane and this is not. how the real world works and in a weird way the having you know the dad of two young kids

try to stop everyone and talk some logical sense into them heightened my experience of it in a way that I don't know maybe I wouldn't have felt because I'm so used to seeing action movies we all are there was something great about it and then even Chris later they kind of they call back to it when Dan and Chris are in the car and they've locked Julian out. And Chris is like, I could have kids. I've had all kinds of crazy sex, man. Like, I got to go. And it just, it was, all of it was like perfectly done for who each of these men is. Yes. And in that very scene, explain this to me because I was, I think I got, I tripped on the geography of where that scene was taking place. So he, they, were they actually at the warehouse where Nathan was being held, but just like

the other side of it. That's what it seemed like. Because that's where I was confused. Like if you're going to exclude him, I mean, first of all, just tell him you're going to pick him up at his house and at least give him the courtesy of being stood up at his own home. But I was confused that like, if you are doing the right thing, which is this guy has two young kids, I'm not going to let him be a part of it. It felt weird that like, well, then why are you still driving him to the scene and leaving

him with nothing but wirecutters? So I think I can answer that. And the way I interpreted it is that great speech that he gives to Dan, when Dan's like, what is this about? Are you leaving your kids in the car? Is that still what's going on? And Julian says no. And he said a lot of words, but essentially what he was saying is it's about knowing that someone will stand up for you. I'm going to be that kind of a person, that kind of a friend.

I'm going to go stand up for my friend and help me. them no matter what. So I feel like, and Dan is also playing emotional mentor to these guys during this whole process in some bizarre way. He's sort of like allowing them in on his mission, but kind of knowing that they both need some kind of boost in their emotional lives that this is going to help them with in some way. So that's kind of how I wrapped it up in my brain. Like, okay, he's going to let him come along for that. That I get.

I completely understand, like, letting me be a part of it, but then excluding him. My question just was, I didn't understand the literal geography. Like, there was a guy who appeared to be a lookout. There was a fence. So my confusion is, if he's excluding him, didn't he still drive him to the warehouse where it was all about to go down? Right. So he's like, just go, just run, get out of here. And he's like, okay, where in Tree Hill am I that I can just, like, what road am I about to get on and walk down and, like, call an Uber outside of this warehouse?

Like, what am I supposed to do? Is that what you're thinking, Rob? Yeah, I just kind of, it felt like I understand the move you're making. It's sort of like noble, but you introduced a wild amount of risk that you didn't need to because you left him in front of this warehouse where bad people are alone. Yeah. I thought for sure when he was crouching down on the phone with you, so he was going to get caught. Yeah, I thought for sure. One of the guys was coming out of the bushes.

Well, what helped me with that, and I wish they'd done a shot over his shoulder to reinforce it, but because I had gotten up to grab something and sat back down, and I was like, wait a second, this feels ridiculous. So I rewound and rewatched from him running to cut the lock, which is truly the only reason I think I tracked this. he had to run from the car in the shadows up to the gate and then run back so that the chain would still be there it would look like it was locked but the lock was cut

then they were going to go around the back so what I realized was Julian was already if you think the gate to the warehouse where the guys were that's at least a football field he's probably another 60 feet back at the car

when they don't let him in and then he runs back in the opposite direction of the warehouse into the bushes. So he is pretty far from it. But what I thought was missing because these things are all happening so fast, I wish that we had done a thing

where when he crouched talking to Brooke, he checked over his shoulder and we'd racked so you could see how far away everything was. You could see like... A drone shot would have been great. Yeah, just something. I mean, not that we had the men, but like it would have been helpful

And then even to your point, Rob, understanding, because Dan says it's going to take a while to get back around to the front of the warehouse. I'm like, I wish I could have just, and again, it's like we're obviously shooting on some side street by the airport in Wilmington. Like, who knows what was available? But I wish we'd been able to sort of see how they'd crept around. And then like, where's the other gate and where's the thing? I just felt like I didn't totally understand where we were in space. Mm-hmm.

Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna. When I was broke, and I had no friends, nowhere to live. I was held up at gunpoint. I was robbed.

Always horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened, to me in New York. It's better than what my life was, so I'm not going back. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels

like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Okay, here's something else I didn't understand was the timeline. Because it looked to me like they. were in the sound stage with Dimitri in the trunk or whoever that guy's name is in the trunk, at the same time, you're opening the cafe. And then they come back to the nighttime stuff and you're still cleaning up the cafe at night. It, like, it took you all day. It took me 12 hours to do that. Yeah.

Also, by myself, also listen, Haley's husband is missing. But we do own that cafe together. Like, if we'd been broken into, you would have been my first call. Yes. Yeah. Yes. Because maybe it's related. Well, right. And also, whether it's about Nathan or it's about Xavier,

why would Brooke not call Haley and why would Brooke not call the police? That was a moment where I was like, come on, give us a little. And then she just, she finds the X carved in to the bar top. and isn't like, clearly it's the guy who's name starts with X who's threatened to kill me before, who's done this? Well, she knew. I think you did know. Wasn't, didn't you, you knew? Yes, but then I called Julian to be like, I'm not going to let him scare me instead of calling the police. Like, who's doing that? Now, why would you call the police the second you walked into the cafe and saw that it, I mean, I know they've been letting you down, but like, that's a major, that's a major crime. Well, 100%. And by the way,

what I really did, sure, I'm cleaning up our place of work. I cleaned up a crime scene. Yeah. I disrupted all that evidence. Like, that's the last thing you're supposed to do. This episode was packed

with so much good stuff, but one thing it was missing was all of Brooke's survival instincts and common sense. This is, okay, this is actually so weird because when I saw

the way, there was like a look that came over your face at the bar, and I thought, oh, this is going to be fun. She's, she's on the offense. It was home alone face.

Yes. I'm going to hatch a plan. And I thought all the stuff with the electrical circuits and all, like, I thought Brooke was on to something. She was, she was setting him up. Yeah. So it really was very confusing the turn that it took. And, okay, a quick question regarding the sequence.

Are we supposed to think that, you know, the sound of like a mobile, like a mobile or like a children's toy? Are we supposed to think that that Brooke was actually hearing that? I thought so. I thought so, too. And if that's the case, that's crazy. Yeah, it's literally like when you watch the person go upstairs in a horror movie. Yeah.

Watching, first of all, we've never seen Brooke Davis park in that parking structure downtown. Never. We had no idea what that was. I'm always parked in front of the cafe. Always. Yeah, couldn't they have just set that up? Like, all the parking spots were taken and they just, you have. By the way, even if we had started to seed three episodes ago when I'm talking shit to you about what a nightmare neighbor Tara is at her cafe.

Yeah. Like, yeah, and now her and all her employees come. Like, maybe they were taking all the parking spots first, like something. Yeah, I'm so sick of parking in this lot. It's a half block away from the. Yeah. It's like they keep showing up. And I came at, you know, 7 a.m. and they were already here.

Like what, you know, imagine having the time to be that petty. like something where you go okay so we can't even access our own place of work and now we have to go around the corner and like park next to the movie theater or whatever it would have helped it makes sense and then a thing that really stuck out stuck out to me i obviously don't think i was tracking it in real time when we were shooting but i was like why is the entire first floor of the parking structure empty because then it immediately makes me ask why did she go to the third floor Like, why would I put myself farther away from flat ground, which is a safety thing? So these are the kinds of questions I would ask on set all the time. Yeah. And they're like, we don't have time to get yelled at. Yeah, we don't have time for that joy. I'm like, yeah, but it doesn't make sense.

I just want everyone to know, it doesn't make sense. Okay, let's do it. And that's a great way to get the, oh, she can be a handful. It's like, no, she can just ask very obvious questions that the audience is going to bump on. Well, interestingly, when you're a woman who is intelligent, and you say anything out loud. People say, she's kind of difficult. And you're like, am I or am I just pointing out a hole in your story, sir?

Okay, calm down, Sophia. You sound hysterical. Thank you, Rob. You know what, you're right. I should really, I should rein it in. I should rain it in. I'm too emotional. I just didn't like that we took a character who is intelligent and has very good, like, social awareness.

And I think survival and things, when you've been through stuff like that, I think you are very vigilant, hyper-vigilant. Yes. And so first of all, Xavier was holding the child in the previous episode at the end of it. Yet the way he wants to leave a calling card is by engraving an X in the counter. Okay, you held their child the night before. To me, that's the bigger flex. I don't know why.

Whatever. That doesn't matter. The fact that, like, it couldn't be any more deliberate that this guy is letting you know that you are in grave danger and he is obviously crazy because he's doing stuff that is incriminating. himself left and right, right? Yes. The fact that, A, you don't tell Julian, even if you want to be like, hey, I'm going to handle it, that's cool. But the fact you don't go, we got broken into and Xavier engraved his name in the counter. But then it's like, the power goes out. Again, keep in mind what is happening in your day. It's all crazy Xavier stuff. And then you're like,

I'm just going to go for a walk into a dark parking structure. It's like all of it was that whole, like at the start of a horror movie where you're like, why are you going back? into the house. Exactly. And what's also weird for me, what bumps, and again, to your point, Joy, it's like we'd bring things up and they'd go well. If we let you have this obvious solve, we don't get the payoff of the scene or whatever. I was like, guys, does no one remember that last time Xavier attacked Brooke, she bought a gun and became like a straight up marksman shooter? And now you're going to tell me this man is working across the street from her and she's not carrying. Yeah. She's not prepared.

Are we cuckoo? And not even a taser or mace? I know. Like you're going to close a business by yourself at nighttime while you are being stocked. Yeah. And you don't even bring a steak knife? Like straight up, it was so surreal to me because I remember talking to our bosses and being like, not to sound like a completely insane person, but after the third time I got followed home by like an unhinged fan in Wilmington.

And I'm saying unhinged because obviously we have wonderful fans. but like when you follow a stranger home, you must be an unhinged person. And I'd like to set a line between lovely people and not. Like I literally went and did the sheriff's training course and got a concealed carry permit and was like, okay, like, y'all want to start following me home?

I'm not going to be unprepared. Nobody ever attacked me and bashed my face in. Yeah. Like, but I was scared enough to have a safety plan. And so when you think about the, level of what happened to Brooke, like an assault like that, the kidnapping of her foster child, the murder of a kid at the local high school. And she's just like, derp to derp to derp, let me take the elevator to the third floor while someone's playing a cradle song

in the parking lot. No. That is like the murder dragging the machete along the cement, just to scare you. Yeah. It's like seeing Jason Voorhees in the mask and being like you can be my Uber driver like no and then the Xavier his speech killed me but it was also like very telling though of how we handled the villains this season where I think you brook is you know she's fighting this is when he's pinned her in the structure and she's like why and he says why there is no why no reason no justice but I thought the why there is no why I'm like that explains Tara that explains Xavier because we just have like people playing in 11 but we haven't planted any seeds as to why that behavior makes

sense. Yes. Which is so strange because they wrote Dan so well. He's such an ultimate villain and like they know how to do it. Well, but what's interesting if you think about that, I wonder if because obviously Dan had to have a heart, he had to have enough motivation that we would willingly ride the seesaw of we love and we hate him. We trust him. We don't trust him. Maybe he is a hero, maybe he is the fault for all of this. What's frustrating to me about the Xavier and the Tara of it all, like back when we met Xavier and Evan's character was living with him and the things were all going on with Sam and Jack and, you know, we wanted to know what was happening to these kids. We understood that this was like an unsafe guardian, that there was something

that had really gone wrong for a kid to end up with this guy. And now he's back. And nothing makes any sense. And it's like he's just a patent villain. And of course he has to be like, oh, yeah. And you shut your little whore mouth. I have plans for that mouth. It's like, could we not?

First of all, Xavier's never known this woman to not essentially be married to Julian as a foster parent. Like, he didn't know we're in high school. Let's all take a break. from what we used to say about her. Yeah, that's right. So it's like, why is the thing we always go to that, that men speak to women and about women this way?

It's so uninteresting. And it's unmotivated. So it just doubles down on the there is no why. And let's just follow this storyline through to its end. Listen, I loved the Tara twist because I didn't see it coming. However, I did not understand. It was very odd to me that all of the sudden Tara was able to behave and interact

like a normal, rational person. And the explanation for everything was just her going, I need to sell this cafe. It turns me into a bitch. And it's like, no, no, no, no, no. A bitch is cutting someone off in parking or like flipping it on. No, what you did

was like sociopathic level behavior so psychotic yeah it was listen to what it was it was a dude writing something and like doing women dirty yeah yeah that's what it was it was just like lazy writing what i really appreciate about you as an actor sophia through all of this ridiculousness you committed so completely to the material and i think it's probably in the benefit of having been through so much on our show on and off camera that it was almost like you were you were worn out and not in a way that felt it didn't I didn't feel like it was like not showing up to work that's not what I mean it was almost like just I I there was an exhaustion like as a woman that I connected with and understood and with all of the stuff with Xavier like

he's so over the top and you kept it so so under the surface like you didn't you didn't let it all out and get all get like meet him on his level of um didn't match his energy he didn't match his energy and you did the same thing with terra when she i really appreciated this scene when you came or the way you handled it when she came and sat or leaned on the car next to you and she's quipping and making all these funny little remarks and i could tell in the writing they wanted you guys to banter they wanted you to banter back with her and like oh well thank god this is over yeah ha ha ha and i just was like thank god sophia is just like i felt so much confidence coming from you as a person to be able to take brook into your hands at that moment and go no i'm i'm not i am not playing this game with the

writers and making light of this this was an incredibly dramatic traumatic traumatic thing that has happened to real women and we're not going to we're not just going to like make light of it and make cute jokes at the end. So no matter how much Tara was like trying to be cute and poke at you and like be friends, you just, you responded like kindly, but you weren't playing along. And I was so grateful that you did that. Thank you. Yeah.

It's one of the things that I think looking back on this journey with all of us, it's really cool to see the ways we all learned to humanly navigate. our characters because look, who's the biggest advocate for your character, if not you, right? Like, we fell for these people. I still feel such love and pride for Brooke Davis. And when people are like, I'm her biggest fan,

I'm like, I'm her biggest fan, but you can be her second biggest fan. Take a number. You know, the way that there's just moments where I've, thank you, yes, I'm accepting. Your brain is running faster than your mouth. I'm letting the compliment all the way in

instead of like trying to immediately move on to 30,000 feet. So I'm acknowledging saying and then I'll keep going. But I've loved that for all of us. I've loved watching each of you do it. I've loved watching our coworkers do it where you know what was on the page and you go, oh, shit, look at that. Like we leaned into the human thing more than we leaned into the gimmick. And sometimes they did want a gimmick.

Sometimes they would, you know, do something that on its face is a little too far. Like, Xavier's scary enough without intimating what he intimated in the scene. And I love that we all got to a point in our work where we knew how to, sure, say what's on the page, but put completely other things into it. I don't know. It's like one of the things I feel the most, like, nostalgic about when I watch all of us together, I'm like, look at us. We really did some things. And we were babies.

And we did some cool things. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty. And I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna. When I was broke and I had no friends, nowhere to live. I was held up at gunpoint, I was robbed. Always horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York

is better than what my life was, so I'm not going back. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native comic. or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Rob, you had to do a lot of that too. You did a lot of taking material on the page that was like, really, even just the way the words were in a sentence sometimes, you know, and you managed to be captivating and interesting and make it feel realistic. I mean, I really don't notice the lines until later.

It's like, I'm watching the scene, I'm watching the scene, and then you say it, and I'm like, there with you. And then something in the back of my brain goes, what were those words? I'm like, oh my god But it's been so This episode in particular Felt like such a reward for you Rob Yes Completely let's get to it

You've had to just commit To so much that's wild And you've done it beautifully But there was this like Quiet Sparkle in the eye Like crickin your smile Leading fucking man

gorgeous, like romantic confidence in this whole episode. I was like, I want to watch this. I want to watch this Clay do everything. The way you, the way Clay spoke to Quinn, the things you reflected on. The way I saw you remember Logan say his first word and his first word being dad. When you sat down to tell Sarah about. what you've figured out and it's the most insane list

of things that humans ever had to say out loud and it managed to be so grounded and so charming I was like oh my God I love my friend so much oh my God look at him like everything you've had to do

in this whole fugue storyline for me as a viewer and as your friend and like it's it's triple worth it to have gotten this episode to just watch you be so connected to your story. Thank you.

Thank you so much. Did you have a lot of planning for that, Rob? Like, did they give you a heads up? Like, hey, in the next episode, you're going to come to and realize all these things. And, you know, like, I guess what I'm asking is there was such a clear difference in Clay in who he was in this fugue state and the confusion and the self-loathing and all of that. And then this relief was like suddenly something. broke. And I just wasn't sure if you had like a lot of intentional time to plan all those

little things that you were going to do or did it come really naturally as soon as you found the script. No, I mean, first of all, thank you. That means a lot to me. That was very sweet of you to say all that. No, because you know how it is. Like we didn't, they rarely gave us heads up for stuff. Like that, that was sort of their emmo. It was like occasionally you hear something or you would go to them to be like, what is happening? And they'd be like, it's eventually going to be this but I do remember that I just remember thinking because my my my north star always is like how can I keep this as honest and grounded as possible like smaller not bigger and I just remember thinking with clay that none of this during the fugue stuff that is like

none of this can be as grounded as I want it to be because clay is not grounded right now he's a he's a man unmoored and this was the first episode where I felt like okay now he gets to drop back into himself and be grounded and the dialogue was also such a gift given like how ridiculous even the episode prior was some of the things I had to say I love that first scene in uh with Clay and Quinn in the car because I love that we finally got to see and it's happened in smaller moments but like a dedicated moment of Clay just expressing his gratitude for Quinn yes I was like Because this is so necessary. It's so deserved and overdue.

A hundred percent. And I think if we hadn't seen that, it would have actually worked to Clay's detriment. Because it was like, are you not self-aware enough to see what she's put herself through to be by your side? Yeah, what she's done for you. I love that the starting point of this journey for the two of them was Clay seeing her and appreciating her. That was a very sweet starting point. And then I thought the grave scene, my favorite part was when he said, Quinn says hi.

Because it just felt like this very, like a wholesome, organic thing where it was like there was no shame in it. He didn't feel any guilt about it, you know? And he even said, like, you were right. Because remember last season, I think it was that Sarah was saying, like, dumb, answer the door. She's the one. Yeah. And so it was just great that like I loved the clarity with Clay where he wasn't feeling guilty or torn about it. And instead he was just like, I love you and you were right. And like, holy shit. By the way, she says hi. You know, it was almost like, let's be friends the three of us now. This can all be cool and copacetic. And so I, I liked that a lot. Yeah, it felt such a relief. It was a damn breaking. He was finally letting Quinn in, letting Quinn be a part of this whole part of his inner world. like no wonder he'd been trying to kind of keep her at arm's length

because there's something unfinished in his mind. Did either of you think, because I didn't remember any of this, that he was driving to pick up Logan? I thought Logan might be in the back seat. Because when he was dressed up nice and he had flowers and then he was obviously nervous, I thought, oh, he's showing up to Sarah's parents' house to like talk to Logan.

Yeah. I was watching you too. I didn't. I wasn't looking for that. Did you think it's Soph? At one point I was like, where are they going? But then I was so interested in the scene that it didn't matter. And interestingly enough, then when you guys were pulling up to the cemetery, I was like, is some, are they lost? Like, is some hilarious thing about to happen that I don't remember? And then when she said, I'll be right here. I was like, oh my God, of course. Of course, of course, of course. I was so enamored by you two and where Clay had gotten to. And interestingly enough, watching the dynamic of Clay and Quinn

and watching the choices that Chantelle made, I was like, oh, it's not in her dialogue at all in this episode to say, I knew you were worth the weight. That's what she's giving me. Yeah. And the energy was just so lovely. I was having such a good time watching you two that I wasn't really concerned with, like, what you were doing.

Yeah. But one thing that really got me when you first walked up to the headstone was you sat down and you said, hi, Angel. And I was like, ugh, because two of us, of loved and lost someone is so profound at a young age and to have to then figure out how to make space for someone else in the land of the living when your person has died is so, it's so complex. And there was this joy in your voice when you said it. And it's such a term of endearment that people will say to their partners, but the double entendre of like Sarah

really is Clay's Angel now, I lost it. I was like, that's it. And for you to have these things to share and then to say, and Quinn says hi, I was like, it's bookended this journey for him to actually be able to move on. I sobbed. Yeah. It was beautiful, Rob. We needed it. That was really nice. And hey, come on.

Speaking of father's son stuff, let's circle back because Dan saves the day. Wow. And there's a moment when I just, again, all of Paul, Paul was so freaking heroic. Like walking slow-mo, cocking a shotgun with one hand. Has Paul ever looked hotter? Never. Never. I was swooning start to finish.

But I loved that once he and Nathan, are together. He's like checking in on Nathan. And then he's like, all right, I'm going to go check the next room. And Nathan stops him and says, dad, it's good to see you. It's good to see you. I felt that like, Paul didn't make a meal of it, but you could tell it was like, it was like water for Dan's parched soul. Yes. I really, I'm realizing as you're saying this, like this was such an episode for the actors, just for all of us to, to be able to see. see how real actors can handle material that the material could have pushed all of us into a real big place yeah yeah i'm trying to find a nice vocabulary word for it but i can't quite but

yeah it's it just feels uh it feels like it could have been super over the top it absolutely could have and the fact that everybody just contained it we all know our character so well everybody just held on to it, kept it real close to the vest. And that's what draws you in. I think as an audience member, you lean in because we're not putting all the emotions out on top of everything, even though the words are and the action is. Yeah. And how about, I mean, the twist didn't stop coming.

So we see Dan gets shot and then we see him fall onto Nathan. But it's a clever shot because it's about, it's like a two teeth. It's like basically from his belly button up is the shot, essentially. And he just says, I'm so sorry, son. And then he falls down. And what we've come to find out, though, is that he had tucked his gun into Nathan's waistband. Yeah, waistband.

Oh, is that where it came from? Yeah, I was in Dan's hand. That's why the shot was a little higher. Otherwise, you would have seen it happening. Because I was waiting for Dan to turn around and shoot. When Dan puts his arms around Nathan, he tucks it in his waist. So it's like his last move actually was enabling his son to save himself. Heroic.

Yeah. It was good, man. Okay, did anyone, what was your reaction when then the cop runs in the room? I just was like, oh, come on. Same. Like, we can't have one minute, but I will say what I loved, I loved getting a button on the buddy comedy of Dan, Julian, and Chris, because I wasn't expecting it.

I did not remember that Julian came in as the foil at the end. All me either. And it was so great because it's exactly what you brought up earlier, Rob. It's all these guys figuring it out together and Julian saying, essentially saying to Dan,

I don't really care what you consider my friendship with your son to be. He's my friend, so I'll show up for him. Like it's such a, it's such a, a gesture and I think I don't know it's a really nice reminder about you know your integrity

and what you can do when you can for people and him coming in at the end was a lovely payoff but man when the cop came around the corner I was like you gotta be fucking kidding me I was pissed they were all there yeah I when he walked in

I'm like come on because especially by this point in the episode there's almost like adrenal fatigue where we've had so many and then and then but it but that cop had to go like we had to resolve that yes everybody knew he was outstanding and it it created the space for julian to have that sweet hero moment so yeah i allowed it but when it first started to happen i was like let this freaking guy get out of here already yeah it was it was great though where were the kids by the way. Isn't Jamie with, oh, those kids?

Yeah, good question. There was not a child in this episode. Yeah, I mean, I get Haley, maybe he's got Jamie, but maybe Haley's looking after it. But it's just the fact that Brooke shows up at the cafe and then she's still cleaning up 12 hours later and then Julian's gone all day. Yeah, somebody's got to have the kids. They're back at home with Brooke's common sense and survival instance. Also, can I just say one thing?

And I remember, Sweet Greg, who I believe directed this episode, really had to Talked me through this because there was all sorts of things that felt ridiculous when the power went out. And they were like, and then you're going to light the scene with your iPhone flashlight. And I was like, yeah, okay. So obviously you turn on a flashlight, you point it out. And then they're like, but we can't see you. So you have to light yourself with the flashlight. And I'm like, I have to be dumb enough to shine my phone flashlight in my own face in the dark.

And literally Greg looked at me. He goes, I know. I'm sorry, but I need you to light yourself. So we literally had to figure out like, okay, I'll turn it on, I'll swipe out, I'll come around, I'll look past it. We had to do all this dancing to try to not have me look dumb enough to shine a flashlight in my own eyes. And I was just like, I mean, thank God he at least acknowledged it and didn't try and

make it sound like, oh, well, your motivation could be. No, he was like, I know, but I need you to do it. And I was like, okay. It didn't cross my mind once, if that helps. The muscle memory came right out when I did this and then this. I was like, that fucking flashlight. You're a legend because you already had, you had your work cut out for you on this one. Because the Brooks, the Brooks Xavier storyline was definitely just the, like, what are we, what's happening?

And then the fact that, because that's the kind of thing, like, you, you can't. You can't crush an actor's spirit, and you're already asking them to, like, do some serious heavy lifting and, like, logic suspension. So the fact that you had to do the storyline, and also, again, you are an intelligent adult who's been in the world for a while. Shine your flashlight, not at your surroundings, but into your own face. That's the straw that breaks the camel back. Exactly. That can easily be the note where you're like, you know what? Nah.

I'll be in my trailer. I quit. You can't figure it out. I have a tummy ache. I'll be in my trailer. Yep. Yeah. I was like, okay, so I have to be a moron and my own DP today.

Got it. Got it. But you know what? We did it. And here we are. Great episode. I am very curious what we're going to do in the next three. Oh, my gosh.

Because I feel like we've, I only know one thing. I know Clay and Quinn and Logan's end game, but I don't really recall anything else. So I'm very curious to see what we have three episodes of. Yeah, like, I'm so excited. I am just so excited for the Haley and Nathan reunion. Me too. And it's interesting, too, you know, we didn't talk about this and I want to before the episode's over. You know, it's not lost on me that this is exactly when you should have essentially been on, like, Matt leave and weren't.

So you had to come to work and you still had a very young baby at home. I thought with the way this episode really segmented into different verticals, I was like, wow, you know, they're doing right by joy by giving her some serious time off with her new baby. And the way they used you in the house moving around, kind of trapped with your own memories and anxiety, even the fact that they put you on the treadmill for that one scene, so short, nothing said, but it communicated so much about this woman feels trapped inside in her mind, in her life. And I, I don't know, I loved, I loved the way that they did things because I thought they were a great storytelling with, you know, limited time and B, that on a show where we very rarely

were considered as people by the people in charge, I was like, good for them. Yeah. Good for them for like not just making her do a bunch of frivolous stuff, especially after like the morgue episode and everything. I liked that they gave you a beat to just like be a human before you get some happiness. Yeah. And it worked because she knew what Dan was doing. Like he kicked her out of the soundstage and she's like, okay, he's on it and I just have to wait. There's nothing else. I just have to wait. Yes, too. It's nice that we were able to probably shoot you out in a day because you were just at your own location. I also just want to remind everyone that you had to tart yourself up to the nine last episode and you had to run on a treadmill in this episode. So while we were playing, why the show was playing ball with you to an extent, they weren't making it like overly easy.

Oh, definitely not. Yeah. Well, by the time, I mean, I guess I had, Maria was probably about nine months by the time we were shooting that maybe eight months. Yeah, because she was born in February. So I think we shot that in October because we were done by November. Yeah. So we probably shot this like early October.

So I was pretty well healed and I was out for runs and trying to drop the baby weight and all that. So I think physically I was doing okay. But it's, but yes, like still just to be able to have time with her because she was born we wrapped we had a hiatus and then i came back um yeah and a lot was different in my life so it was it was really helpful before we wrap this up i want to say i loved the last shot of the episode of of haley watching the videos of nathan and the phone ringing and just it was such a simple shot of just you looking at the phone but as an audience member who was putting all of their own stuff on it i was

like, oh my God, kind of looks like she might know, like she has intuition. And the fact that we didn't get the payoff of seeing you pick up the phone, I just thought that was such a smart, powerful way. Wait, didn't we? I said hello. Well, the hello, but then black. Oh, yeah, yeah, sorry, we didn't get the reciprocity. Yeah, your side. Was it Nathan's phone that was calling me? Because it looked, I couldn't quite tell, but the screen looked like it said Nathan. That's why I was like, oh my God, Nathan's phone is calling me, but what does this mean? Wasn't that your house phone? I thought it was a cell phone that I answered. That would be crazy.

You answered a cell phone, but it would be crazy because they smashed Nathan's phone to bits. Yeah. But I was wondering, I was like, oh, my God, we've got Nathan and Julian. Julian's pulling out his phone. Dan's been shot. Julian must be calling 911. So I'm sitting there thinking, is Nathan going to call her from Dan's phone? Julian's going to call 911, and then is he going to call Haley immediately next?

like what I started running through all the possibilities of who could who could be calling you. Yeah. And wait, did we see Julian driving the car past like we didn't see that? Okay. No, we just saw him. I think we just saw him on his phone. I believe I think we heard him talking to 911. Yeah, they were kneeling over Dan and he pulled, Nathan went to like put his hands on his chest, I guess to pressurize his wound. Julian pulled the phone out and started to dial. Oh, that's right. Right, right. Okay. So it's like, oh, it was just such good suspense because we all know.

What we're waiting for, what we've been waiting for is about to happen. And now we have to wait another week. Well, we don't, but back then you did. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty and I'm the host of the on-purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only Madonna. When I was broke and I had no friends, nowhere to live. I was held up at gunpoint, I was robbed. Always horrendous things happened to me.

I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was. So I'm not going back. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the Iheart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native comic. or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Oh my gosh, this listener question is so. So good and so timely, Celine asks, if you were in the shoes of Logan's grandparents, how would you handle Clay remembering and wanting to come back into Logan's life? Wow. We're going to find out in the next episode how they handle it. But how would you guys? How do you feel about that? I mean, you got to be like, you got to let it happen, but you also got to be a little guarded, right?

Yeah. Yeah, I mean, that's his dad. And there's something interesting, right? I think there's a double-edged sword with mental health because we understand how serious it is and we also have historically been so dismissive and judgmental of people's mental health. So I immediately go to how evolved are they?

How much therapy have they done? How much do they know that there's no way your brain could have returned to this place with this person until it was ready to. And I would imagine, you know, he's six years old. If he's been living with his grandparents for five years, of course they know he has parents, but they've been his primary caregiver.

They're the ones who give him, you know, his baths and put him to bed. And the loss of the regularity with a child is so hard in a family. And so it must, I mean, my God, I would imagine it would be so complicated for them. Yeah, I guess it depends on whether or not they told him. Did they, like, are they, what do you, what do you say? First of all, clearly they never showed him a photo of his own father.

Obviously. Which is like what? So only ever pictures of his mom who he knew died, but they don't show. So that's a huge hole in the story in the first place. And if they are the kind of people who did not show him the photo of his father, then I don't imagine. imagine they would be too keen to suddenly, like, just let him come back in. Would they also be the type to hide from him that his father even existed anymore? Like, they could have made up a lie

that's like he doesn't, he's, he died with your mom. But are they going to say he's out? Like, there's a lot of holes. Can I tell you one thing, though, that works in the favor of them letting the transition happen? I think a big factor is Quinn. Because you could be afraid that, like, what if his brain just does it again? Right. If it was just Clay by himself, that's a very valid fear. Totally. But once you meet Clay or once you meet Quinn,

I think seeing that there's a second grounded adult who lives in the house would sort of anchor the whole situation. That's a great point. Yeah. I would also imagine trying to put myself in those shoes as Celine is asking. Yeah. Yeah. I think it would almost be like what parents do with grandparents,

which is as the kids get bigger, your grandparents aren't just, you know, watching you on a Friday night. You can go spend the night. You can spend the weekend at, you know, your Mimmy's house. You can, whatever it is. And so I almost wonder if it's a version of that in reverse. Like, yeah, Logan can start doing overnights with Clay and Quinn.

And then he can do weekends. And then maybe you go a week on, a week off, and see how he does. Yeah. Everybody's going to have to go to therapy. There's going to have to be marriage and family counseling. counseling here. And if it's working for Logan, if Logan is flourishing, if this little boy loves having his dad in his life and wants to live with his dad, then that probably would be the

shift. But I would imagine it would take like six months to a year of creating new routines back and forth between Clay and Quinn's home and the home he's lived in his entire life of memory. Yeah, it's not going to happen on our show's timeline. It's not going to happen on our show's timeline, which is kind of a bummer. Pretty sure we expedite the heck out of it. Yeah. I definitely would have been like the kind of, I would have shown him photos of his dad. I would have talked to him about. Yeah. Here's what happened. Your mom died and your dad had like a mental break and we are just yeah. We're waiting for him to come around and we're praying for him and we're like hoping that when he's ready, it's time and and we'll, but here's, here's all the things about him. And he,

He, it's not about you. It's not that he doesn't love you and all those things that you would, he's sick. And maybe he'll get better. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Good question, Celine. That's a complex one. I like it, though.

And we should spin a wheel and we have an honorable match. Oh my gosh. Yeah, of course. Okay. Okay. Oh. Oh, boy. Sophia and I are going to arm wrestle for this one.

Yeah, it's us. Most likely to pick up a new hobby. every week. Uh-huh. Rob, do you have this inclination, too? 100%. I hyper fixate.

I learned everything about it. ADHD, baby. Yes. I will obsess. I will do my best to master it and then I am bored. Oh, I will obsess. I will do the research.

I will get the things. Yeah. And then there's just a graveyard of things for hobbies. And I probably actually start slash master like one in 10 that I supply myself for. Yep

It's so good You got so many hobby things We could just host workshops And have somebody We've got all the supplies Honestly that would be so fun Because the minute you have a body double You can do it

That's right So if we did like crafternoons Yes On Saturdays In the hypothetical world Where we all live in the same city That would be so cool It feels like a convention op

Crafternoon Great I'm in Craft with Sophia and Joy I'm sure everyone would want to do it. My camp counselor heart. Do we have an honorable mention? Paul.

Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Everyone did great this episode, but he put it on his back and was just a star. And there's one moment in particular, and I say this, not to undercut the seriousness of his performance, but to add to it, when he looked at Chris Keller and said, you called shotgun and handed him the same. sought off shotgun. I was like chef's kiss. How about when he was walking away from Chris Keller

and said, Dan Scott doesn't like this either. Yeah. He parroted at the Chris Keller speech. He's so good. Way of speaking. It was so great. All right. Thanks for joining us, gang. Thanks, everyone. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review.

You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's OTH. Or email us at Drama Queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Dreamer for the right team.

Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Drama, drama queens, drama queens. Hey, I'm Jay Shetty, and I'm the host of the On Purpose podcast. Recently, I had a conversation with the one and only, Madonna. When I was broke and I had no friends, nowhere to live, I was held up at gunpoint, I was robbed.

Always horrendous things happened to me. I had such an unhappy childhood that whatever happened to me in New York is better than what my life was, so I'm not going back. Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you Get Your Podcasts. It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop.

Explore his story along with many other Native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an iHeart podcast.