Drama Queens - Look at us Now • EP421 with Danneel Ackles

Episode Date: April 17, 2023

It’s the Season 4 finale and it’s a graduation party all over again as Danneel Ackles returns for this episode!   There’s so much to unpack here… that graduation party, Haley giving birth and Dan facing the consequences of his actions!  Plus, Sophia recalls a hilarious BTS memory with Stephen that you may need to rewind just so you can hear it again!  See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. Smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl.

Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. You guys, we did it. We got through all of season four. Wow. We got through high school. Oh, we did. High school's over. I think that was a line you said.

We did it. We made it. You guys, we have DeNeil Ackles with us this episode. She even watched. She watched the episode with us, which we don't normally do with our guest. Danielle, it was nice to have you gasp along with us. Yes. It took some turns that I didn't remember.

It's the same. Some dark turns. It felt so fitting having you back on this last episode. It wouldn't have been the same without you. I'm glad that they brought you back for this. Thank you, Joy. Yeah. And it's kind of cool that you got to join us today because, you know, in the episode,

Rachel pops back up and it's her party. And today you pop back in and we're just here to listen. Yeah. No, it was good. It was really fun. Some of that stuff, like I think at one point, joy you were like I don't remember doing that like when I watch it and I don't know if this is like a common thing that every that y'all found as you're watching this stuff but I'm like I don't remember

doing that I do remember not knowing that dance at all because I don't know I think I yeah because I come in like halfway and so y'all were doing this whole other part that Liz and I didn't have to learn so we were just at the practices and talking and so when When it came to the actual day, I was like, oh, my God, I don't think I know this. I remember, like, having panic attacks about it. Oh, yeah. They were so mad at us for not knowing it. But now that I'm watching it back, I actually think it's great.

I love that we didn't have known the dance. It would have been really, really weird if we had all just known, happened to know this dance. Right. It looks more authentic. It looks more authentic, but I got to say, guys, we've talked so much about how we didn't know it. We look pretty good. I was like, if we were any more synchronized, we'd look like a dance troupe and not like a bunch of kids. Exactly. We looked like a bunch of kids who knew a dance.

No, we made a creative decision for this episode, and it was to go half-ass and have it look natural. Guys, it was so half-ass that we were, when we were filming, I was so tired. We were all like, those nights were late and long and so many people to film and so many, you know, moments to capture. And when we started doing the dance, I was like, can you guys see my shoes in this shot? Is this a wide shot? And somebody said no. So I put my sneakers on in the dance on one of the wide shots that I thought was supposed to be all on our heads. And apparently it wasn't.

So as many fans have pointed out, the Easter egg over the years, you can go back and forth between my heels and my sneakers. It's magic that way. It's just magic. You guys, obviously we're talking about season four, episode 21. All of a sudden, I miss everyone. So this aired June 13th, 2007. Who wants to read the synopsis? Danil, do you want to do the honors?

In this season four finale, Dan turns himself in and confesses to murdering Keith. Don't, don't. That was the dark part. Haley gives birth to her and Nathan's baby boy. Deb babysits so Nathan and Haley can attend an end of the year party. Rachel returns to Tree Hill to celebrate their last night as seniors with the crew. and Lucas wrestles with his post-high school options. And Peyton and Brooke prepare to spend the summer in Los Angeles together.

A lot going on. So much. Wow. Let's talk about our babies being born and we need to give a round of applause to the mothers who were able to wear zip and button up pants two weeks after giving birth. Those pants, let alone dancing, let alone playing. basketball, let alone having sex

two weeks after you had a baby? Yeah, nobody does that. And birthing a like six-month-old baby. You had the biggest baby ever. A clean. That baby came out squeaky clean and very fat.

Very huge. That was insane. Do you guys think that we contributed to any teenage birth rates? They were just like, see, Haley did it? It was no big walk. Yeah, she got to go to the party. in real life it would have looked like

you would have been covered in blood in that labor and delivery room with a baby that big yes you would still be wearing what's that underwear that you have to wear for like two months

depends depends it's like this mesh they give you at the hospital it's amazing I took some from the hospital because I loved it so much I forgot about those yeah I loved it

the mesh yeah those are good underwear. All I can think about, because y'all have done this, and I have a friend who actually had an 11-pound baby, and I asked how it went, and she said, I have three words for you, third-degree episiotomy. And I went, no, I'm good. No, absolutely not. I'm fine. Wow. There's no way. No. And I just cannot, to your point, I can't fathom. Some of the stuff we do in the hospitals on these episodes are just insane. Like, where was our medical supervisor going? going, guys, you need a baby, half that small.

Somebody give me a jar, a raspberry jelly. Like, do something that makes this look real. But this is the stuff that happens. I'm sure they had a baby planned. And either the baby showed up and it was way bigger than they said it was going to be. Or the baby they had planned suddenly was sick or couldn't come in or like at the last second, they were like, sorry, we can't come over. And somebody called, they were like, send out an APB.

Does anyone know anyone with a baby? Who has a baby to come over here right now? Yeah. Take whatever we get. I loved all the, I mean, we've made fun of all the jailhouse and hospital theatrics on our show and all the leaps of faith. It's like, is the audience going to buy this? Are they going to buy that Lucas is in that auditorium in the hospital? I've never seen one of those.

Oh, yeah. You would never be allowed. And what's also crazy to me is that the opening scene is so beautiful. I love that the whole teaser, nobody's talking. and it's just the lyrics of lightning crashes and all this big stuff is happening and it's elation and it's sadness and it's happy moment and it's danger

and then there's that epic shot where they're racing the two women down the hall and they turn the gurneys and they go into the room but that signifies an emergency like they are, Karen is coding she's being rushed into the OR and then you cut in the OR and the doctors are just standing there looking at her going

come on Karen well they did the little the squirt squirt with the shrink. Squirt, squirt. They're not giving her any meds. They're not operating. Like, they're doing nothing. They've rushed her into an operating room to stand over her. And I was like, man, how did we get away with this stuff? And where was Haley rushed to? Labor and delivery is a totally different way. Yeah, a different floor. But let alone, like, you're in your room for a long time when you're ready to deliver the baby. Like, you've already been in there for like seven, seven, 12 hours. They don't like take you to another, unless it's like an emergency

You know. No, on her first child, she went from zero to 10 dilation over the course of 45 minutes. I'm going to have that baby. Congratulations. And then went to a party in a leather waist belt. I know. Lost all the baby weight in two weeks. Incredible.

I'm still wearing maternity clothes and my kid is five. I'm just like, oh, it's so loose. I feel so nice. I'm so comfortable. Yeah. Well, I loved that opening too. too, Sophia. I thought that was so beautiful. I felt really nice to have an emotional start off to this last episode that really took its time. And, you know, all joking aside, I thought it was

really beautifully done and very, it got my heart. It made my heart happy. Yeah. Well, and them being able to pull off that shot, choreography like that for our friends at home, you know, extras playing doctors, pushing the gurneys and, you know, cameras coming around the corner. corner, like, that stuff is not easy. And it's funny to see all of us, you know, now that we're directing and producing all go, oh, they nailed it. We had total technical appreciation for the crew on that one for sure. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream.

Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. So Dan turns himself in and just, I wasn't surprised. it had been building up it's weird that no one like circles him that no one moves he walks in and it's just this very like somber I did it and the next thing we know

he's in a jumpsuit yeah like he's already been to trial yeah it would have been so nice to your point if creatively we'd had people come around him still with no dialogue you know the music playing you see people asking

what are you talking about all the stuff imagine him going to get fingerprinted and to get his mugshot taken. Those would have been nice scenes for us to have watched. Yeah, I want a Dan Scott mug shot. How come I don't have one of those? Me too. I want one on a coffee mug.

I have a Dan Scott coffee mug. Do you, of his mug shop? No, but that would be funny. I want that. Yeah, that's what we're into. Somebody's doing it right now as we speak. Let's make one for Paul for his next birthday. Aw, he would love that.

Honestly? I love that. I think it'd be sweet. The moments with Nathan and Lucas, they kind of bookend the episode because we have this moment between the two of them at the beginning

where Nathan's going into one hospital direction with Haley and Lucas is going in the other with his mother and they check in with each other and they hug each other and that's how the episode ends as well and I like that they kept checking in with each other

in these moments because that's how the show started. and to see that they're in this super healthy place in spite of Dan, it's great, loved it. Yeah. Yeah, and I like where we get to in the end when they have that moment talking about their futures that starts with Nathan apologizing to Lucas,

you know, saying, I'm sorry, I didn't believe you. I loved that the response wasn't, it's okay, or I get why, or whatever else it could have been, that it was, I'm sorry, I was right. that was it was the perfect way to be clear about how tragic it is for the both of them and I thought it was a really smart choice and I like the way the boys played that scene off of each other a lot yeah I love seeing the two of them they're both good guys now I kept thinking one of them was going to turn into little Dan it didn't happen they're both

sweet boys um Sophia you had a fun episode you just got to roll around with cute little Stephen Clay the whole time. Oh, cutie Coletti. You know what's so fun is to watch him because, and I know we talked about this, is it last season when Chase started? I don't even remember. It must have been, right? Season 3.

I think it was just this season. Was it this season? Okay. Well, whenever Sweet Chase shows up, you know, Stephen was so nervous. He'd not done scripted work. You know, he wanted to be an actor. And it's weird to feel this almost like maternal sense of. pride that is weird watching just how good and present like like he you know I don't know he feels like

he feels like my little baby brother like I took him under my wing you know and and showed him around Wilmington and made sure he was okay and he's like I don't want to be your brother I don't want to be your son I want to be hot we all teased him for being such a goober and it's really sweet to see the way that he's so comfortable and present and And I like Brooke and Chase. I like that he's sweet to her. And he gives her space to be sweet. And there's no expectation and there's no salacious energy.

And even the way they are with each other physically feels tender. And I just really enjoyed watching that. I think it's a nice representation for high school kids, for sure. Did you feel fast to anybody else, Chase and Brooke? Oh, yeah. But our show feels fast all the time. Yeah. No, I think falling in love super fast is really fun.

I like, fuck it. Let's be in love. That sounds great. But I love that there was zero expectation that she was going to still be his girlfriend when she left. Like, it wasn't like, we're going to write each other. We're going to call each other. It was like, hey, it's been real. Thanks for that.

This is fun. But in a nice way, in a like very respectful way, you know? Yeah. It was like he did say thank you for this amazing night. Thank you for the best night of my life. Yeah. But not in that like. That line could have been delivered in a like, I don't know, more, yeah, more pervy kind of way.

But the way he says it is so wonderful. I can't even believe that he was, like, I didn't know he was nervous through any of that. Yeah. And like thinking, but thinking back, so like now everybody does every medium. I mean, actors go on to reality shows and vice versa. But then they really did. Like then if you were on a reality show, you did not. go over to a scripted series without criticism without people going oh you can't do it yeah stunt

casting yeah yeah I remember when like paris hilton um she did an episode of jensen show around the same time because everyone was bringing in these like and everyone was like oh we're so mad and then she did a great job and people were not people people people were surprised but the thing is they're all acting anyway they're all acting on these scripted series you know She's been pretend forever, yeah. Right, right. Well, I think what's interesting, too, to your point, Danielle, is now we know that none of those, quote, reality shows

were just being filmed. We know all the kids were being told who to go out with and what to say and what drama to stir up at the party. But back then, nobody knew that. So everyone assumed they didn't know how to do it. And I know Stephen felt really nervous about that coming on our show. I know he was really nervous when we did the scene in the car. on this night.

Aw, he was? And actually, yeah, he was really, like, flustered about it, and it was really, really sweet. What a nice change of pace. To have someone be like, I don't want to touch you too much. I'm so sorry. I know, right?

To go from, like, a guy biting my face in season whatever to Sweet Stephen being like, I don't want to be, what's okay? I'm not sure where to, I don't want to look at, like, just so scared. And he did something. something really, really funny. I don't remember who told him to do it. Maybe it was James or maybe it was Antoine to like break the ice when we had to do the scene for the first time where, you know,

I've got to pull my top off and be in a bra. Stephen like leaned in like he was going to kiss me and then pulled off his sweatshirt and he was in a bra. And I fell apart. I remember seeing that. Yes, I must. I honestly thought it made it into the show, but then I realized, oh, of course it didn't. I guess it's in one of our blooper reels or something. Okay. Yeah. I've seen that. It was so funny. And I mean, we just cackled like kids. And then for the rest of the night, we had a really, really sweet time. That's a great way to come in on a series and just to like make everybody feel comfortable and, you know, jump in and be a part of the gang. It was great. Yeah. I don't know how I could have done that. I couldn't hide anything under that Pamela Anderson

dress. That was pretty much good. I know you. I would have, if there had been some way for you to, like, shimmy out of the latex and be in the bork, like, swan dress. You were not set up for success. No. I was not set up for success. No, but when did you find out you were coming back for the finale? Do you remember? Because you didn't come with us to Honeygrove.

No. I think it was maybe, like, a week or so before we shot it. Really? Yes. come yeah you you you should be there and um i was really grateful for that um because it just it felt i think had i not been able to do that i would have i would have been really sad yeah because it you know in a way we were um not we were in high school together we did a second high school and i would have been sad if i wouldn't have been able to say goodbye to that so yeah it was

sweet. It was, you know, it was good. Well, I just remember the night you and Liz spent the night at my house, but it might, so my parents were living with me during the tail end of this season because they moved down to Wilmington. And so Liz and

DeNeil spent the night like normal, but then my dad, I guess, heard us really drunk giggling in the back room and didn't know what was going on and got up in the middle of the night and like was horrified that he walked in in his boxers and Like, it's just all these, like, girls in a room.

Weren't we sleeping in that room with all the clothes in it? Like, where you would sew things and there were, like, dresses hanging all over the walls. Yeah. Because my boyfriend was in my room and my parents were in the middle bedroom. And so you, Liz, and I slept in the back. And it just my parents, my dad was so mortified. He's like, there's just all these very lovely young ladies in the house. And someone should have told me.

Sorry. It's hilarious. Giggling and trying to pretend we were so. going up those like 150-year-old stairs that are like this. But it felt like high school. Like I felt like I was in trouble. Your head can't even fit on the stair.

Oh, you've got to go sideways. No, I was sneaking around, trying to make sure, like, and get caught. My parents can't know that I drink. I'm an adult. Yeah. Speaking of parents, I mean, it was nice to have a little roundabout with Deb

coming back to being responsible and caring and loving and, you know, trustworthy. And funny. And funny and so great with little Jamie. And then Karen, I mean, Moira absolutely wins all the gold stars for this episode, in my opinion. She's incredible. It's such a heavy lift. Yeah.

I felt like I was watching. I mean, she's one of those actors that actually, both of them, the scene in the jail with her and Paul. I felt like I was watching a real movie. yeah not not a TV show like a teen drama TV show that was like that was serious work it was great I had chills the whole time yeah when she was speaking to him through that glass I could like rolling chills from my arms to my toes I just couldn't make it stop it was so visceral and it's it's so amazing when you watch someone perform that way and it's so cool when it's someone who you get to see so often and then they do something that you just, you couldn't be prepared for.

Yeah, guys, we were so lucky to have them to show us. I mean, we were just young actors trying to figure it out. We didn't have like an acting coach or, you know, we were just kind of figuring it out along the way. And there's a lot of times and a lot of directors that would come in and it was like, oh, good enough, you know, whatever, whatever. But to be able to be surrounded by that kind of professional level of acting and storytelling, We're so lucky. Well, Joy, you said it.

Like, they committed to it in a way that anybody else would have been like poking holes in it. Like, okay, well, Karen's going to the jail. Who's watching her baby? And how are they going to let her in? You know, like poking all these holes in it because that's easy. And they didn't get to make script adjustments. So they just took what they had to do. And Paul committed.

Like, Paul, Dan Scott trying to hang himself in. failing again he's just a failure at everything he tries to do even killing himself in the fetal position oh yeah the fetal position cry that was the best work i think i've seen him do in in in in like a sad emotional state he's done a lot of great work and a lot of different um emotions but that was my favorite anyway yeah so good yeah i kept wondering if do you think that spit that karen does was scripted or was that her? I think that was her. I don't know. I think that was Moira. I'm wondering. Like when I saw it, I was like, oh, I bet you that was her. I bet you she did that. That was my first because it was so good and it just felt so unexpected. Yeah. And it was like a really juicy

like wad of spit. Yeah. It wasn't. It was. It wasn't light. Yeah. It wasn't like she'd done it 10 times in a row. I feel bad for her, though, because everyone else is having the time of their life in this episode, and she's, like, trudging through. Karen never gets a break. Like, it's exhausting.

Are her and Deb good at this point? I feel like they are, aren't they? Oh, no, the last thing that happened was Deb dropped a gun in the cafe that went off. I think that's the last interaction they have had, isn't it? I can't remember I can't either I love when they're good though

so I hope I don't remember what happens with them after the time jump oh no Deb told her in the bathroom she's like stay away from Dan he's bad news don't do that Karen did it anyway oh yeah

I don't know I need that girl gang to get back together same I like them together a lot I like that Deb doesn't want to be grandma good for her Well, it's really interesting, right? There's a lot of these moments that we get in the episode where people are experiencing enough vulnerability to voice.

I'm not ready for this next part. Deb is like, I don't want you to call me a grandma. Guys, she's our age and she's playing a grandma. No, that's insane. And, you know, we're all sitting there going, wait, we're not ready. Like I say to Chase, I don't want to be gone. And we talk about how weird it feels that, you know, these seniors, these juniors now, they're going to be seniors and we're just, what?

We're done? Yeah. Your whole life, as you know, it just changes in an hour. And I really like that we got to do that, that we all got to express the excitement for what's coming, but also wishing we didn't have to go. I mean, Peyton does it with Lucas, you know, it is really wild. Even our stuff, DeNeil, when Brooke gets to give Rachel her diploma, it's like, we did it. Yeah.

But what's that mean? Like now it's over? Oh, no. And it's so real and so sweet. Yeah. I loved that part because I loved, I just loved Rachel and Brooke. I love Rachel and Brooke. Yeah.

You know, because they really loved each other. They just, you know, it was just, there was so much, there was so much competition and all of that but at the end of the day they really i think respected each other and yeah it was sweet i loved all of that and and it is interesting that i don't know i i felt a lot of that emotion very viscerally some of the conversations we were all having in those scenes like i feel them in my body again i I remember what it felt like to be scared of what was coming and to read, you know, the lines in Lucas's book about Brooke and to realize that all these characters in their own way were afraid of what am I going to become and will I be what the people who love me think I'll be. Is it all going to be okay? And I don't know, it feels really alive still.

That's one of those things like when we talk about, you watch a scene and you can like smell the air there. I remember being in those rooms at night. And it was, you know, some nights were really cold. And then randomly that last night at the River Court was warm and we were throwing our jackets off and people were kicking off their shoes. And I just remember the way that all of that felt. Yes. I remember, was it, was it crispy, that?

Christy Vespi running around with a little butane curling iron on our hair. Because it was so humid. Yes, it was the humidity. That was great, that River Court night. The scene where you're like, I'm scared, just like voicing it. That was at Erily Gardens. I remember that night, like it was yesterday. Like you and James coming up to Chad and I sitting on the benches.

Do you remember that? Because we split up, we shot. like a week at that house, but then we shot a bunch of exteriors at early gardens because it matched the lake that was at that house. And that was that, yeah, that was that night where you and Lucas had your scene. But I like that Haley said, I'm scared, I'm scared. Because this whole time you've been like, yeah, I'll have a baby. I'll do that, be fine.

I'll graduate to have the class. I'll just do that. It's totally fine. I'll get married in high school. Yeah, yeah, no problem. I got this. I got this. But graduation, this party. Now I'm freaked out. Now it's real. I know. She's had to be, I guess, it's funny because she has older siblings, but for whatever reason she took on the role in her life of like, it's fine. Don't worry

about me. Parents take care. Probably because she had siblings that were a little unruly. So if she could be the one that wasn't creating any drama, it was like, oh, easy, easy role to step into. But yeah, it's nice to see for her, after all, this time. I've just been like, I got this. I can do it. I can do it to finally have a moment of actually have no idea what I'm doing. And it's terrifying having a baby. The first time you have a baby? That's so scary. Every day is scary. Every mom. Yes, every day, every moment. And it's joy and stuff like that. But I mean, every day. Of course. Well, that's what makes it worthwhile. I mean, that's what keeps you going. But the terror of like, am I doing this right?

I'm every possible thing that you do you're afraid could actually kill this human being that is yours and it's it's absolutely absolutely terrifying well and we haven't really seen Haley do anything to prep like you didn't take Lamas classes no books no books there was no baby proofing of the house no no not at all all the drawers open and closed it's no problem and like also are you breastfeeding like what's going on There's all that trouble. Like a man, a man told this story. Yes. I just remember like two weeks after my baby being born, my boobs leaking everywhere. Oh, just being like, what am I doing? Oh, I was like in a wheelchair on set. Or like wearing cabbage.

Oh, cabbage. Yes. Remember the cabbage? So like, cabbage for those of you who don't know, will kind of stop your breasts from leaking. Yeah. And it can actually, if you leave it on for multiple days, like, I remember a breath beating. I left it on for three or four days and it drives you right up the oddest thing. I don't know the science behind it.

Someone go Google it, but it's wild. But I always smelled like old wet, cabbage. Mommy. But we were out there dancing to the spice girls. And Haley was like, I'll be in the front. Oh, my God. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con

or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. I do like the convenient bun that Haley threw in because after like two days of being to that house, it was like, I got to get my hair up.

Oh, yeah. That's funny. That's probably exactly what happened. I was like, guys, it's too hot. I got this cardigan on. I'm in jeans. Can't handle it anymore. Long sleeves and jeans.

Oh, the things we did to make it work. I had no idea. And I was, I had a baby like four, three or four years later. And it's so funny. So funny watching it back now. Just, it's weird to pretend to have, be pregnant and have a baby when you've never had that experience. You just don't. You did a great job.

I bought it. Hookline and sinker. It was a slow motion. That's all, Danielle. It was just the slow mo. I thought it looked pretty real. You know, but I didn't do a natural labor. So I have no idea.

I, my idea of like natural labor. is the movies and Hillary, who I feel like was like, yeah, I'm in labor right now. You were telling me like, yeah, I'm just standing in the shower. It's fine. I'm good. Just texting. It's fine. I guess it's okay. I guess it's not that bad. Danil gave me that book, What to Expect When You're Expecting. Because I wouldn't, I mean, I had a baby. I was 26 when I got pregnant with us. I don't know why I gave you that. I mean, I probably just looked up like, what do you get someone that's pregnant? That's got to be it. I would have never even known to go get a book.

But you know, it gave it to me. And it's like, it's slightly horrifying because it takes you through month by month. And there's so much to do. It's just list, list, list, list, list. Sorry. No, listen, I learned a lot. Gus is still alive, so it worked. That's the thing.

Like, it's really hard to screw it up. The truth is, like, almost nothing that you're going to do is going to kill your baby. You're fine. No, and I love the Deb turn the phone off. It's just like, yes. she's like guys relax that was it yeah yeah that was a very sweet scene and and you said it earlier joy it's nice to see deb in a parental role and i like that she gets to be the one who reveals the joke that you're both sneaking away to call you know it's a very it's a very cute it's a very cute

reveal it's a great way to do a little bit of exposition and she's very self-deprecating she's like yes i'm not on drugs but bring me some like i love to call them you know like it was so sweet Speaking of drugs, I don't know if you remember this. I don't know if you guys all remember this, but we were filming all night. So this house that we were filming at was due to be destroyed. The children of this estate, their parents no longer lived in this home, they had sold it to a developer. This house was going to get torn down. So they were like, yeah, you guys can do whatever you want to it.

So, of course, our production's like, we're going to go balls out all night long for a whole week. Graffiti the walls, light bonfires. It's going to be nuts. But what that meant was it's the very last episode of the season. We are all already so exhausted. Yeah. The previous episode had been all daytime. And so our body clocks were scheduled for all daytime.

This episode was all nighttime, right? Yeah. And so all the boys were loading up on like Red Bulls and Monster Energy drinks and five-hour energy and like all that kind of stuff. and that shit makes my heart hurt. I can't drink it. It makes a heart hurt. So I go to the freaking like Harris Teeter, right?

And I pick up caffeine pills and come into the hair and makeup trailer and make the Jesse Spano from Save by the Bell joke. I'm like, you guys, I'm so excited. And we're like, okay, great, you know. I want to say, like, each one of them was the equivalent of, like, three cups of coffee. And so we all were taking them and, like, joking about it. And, like, you know, Liz is there. Everyone is just kind of in like a slap happy mood. Yeah.

Because we have to go into work at like three and then stay up till seven o'clock in the morning. Yeah, it's insane. So we're taking these pills. And, you know, you guys know, this was not a good episode for me with our boss. It was like the worst. And we shot most of our episode. during the week and then we had our weekend

where our rap party was going to be and they had to pick up a couple more days after the weekend. So we're at the rap party and we're all like, you know, sing karaoke and just having a good time.

And I find out our boss had spread the rumor that I was the ringleader and we were all doing cocaine to stay up while we were filming. Yes. I recall that.

He was telling everyone I was doing cocaine because we'd had an altercation. with one another. And he wanted to discredit me. So he tells everyone that we're doing Coke. And so we, Daniel and I, maybe Elizabeth too, I don't know who else was in on this. Maybe Lasseter. We went to Edge of Urge, which is a shop that we've told you guys about a lot on the show. And she just so happened to have these t-shirts in that had a picture of this dude from like the 80s on it with blood coming out of his nose. And the shirt said Coke blows.

So we hear this rumor at the rap party and we're like, that guy. That guy would tell you lies about us. You guys, I didn't even smoke weed until just this past year. You were the actual clean teen. You were the actual clean teen. I hate drugs. Hate them. Just not for me.

So we all show up at work on Monday wearing these Coke blows t-shirts. I wonder where mine is. I still have mine. It's in an attic. I probably do. I probably have it in a box. It was the most perfect piece of merchandise for the moment. because they let him know

like, we're on to you, you motherfucker. You're spreading rumors about us. They're not true. And instead of being butt hurt, we're going to make fun of you and wear these shirts all day at work. Yeah. So good.

But by the way, just so you know, after you left, he did a whole other round of that, either like season seven or season eight. Fantastic. Because how inappropriate he was being with the next batch of girls he brought into the show was coming to light.

So he started another whole thing that all the girls were doing Coke and all the, and it was like, what is wrong with you? Also, do you have one story a decade? Like, it's just so embarrassing. And no one was doing Coke then. No one. That's a good 90s thing.

Right. I was like, oh, what, maybe if he would have said, like, hot, maybe. But not even. I mean, it was like, that was not the thing. Oh. I mean, drinking, yeah, maybe. I might have been like guilty of that once or twice. Drinking?

Yeah, we drank all the time. Well, there was nothing else to do there. Yeah, that's not illegal. But it makes me wonder how many like casting directors and producers and executives back in Los Angeles heard the rumor that Hillary Burton's doing cocaine, which I still have never touched. I can tell you one or two did because on my next job after that I was asked. like so how much of a problem like are you how much of and I'm like I'm kind of no problems I yeah we're good but yeah that was definitely he's like okay because I spoke to like one of your previous employers I was like hey I think I know who it is yeah yeah he he loved being in that

seat just getting those phone calls because he was super happy to just say anything that he could to keep people from hiring us at any moment. He called my boss is on white collar. When I got my job in white collar, they're like, we got a weird phone call. I'm like, of course you did. That's exactly how it started with me. Interesting phone call from your previous employer.

I'm like, Warner Brothers? What? Who? They're like, well, no, it was an individual. I'm like, okay, I know. You're like, oh, I know who it is. It's also just such an odd thing when you really think about it. For someone old enough to be our father,

to be mad that girls, young enough to be his daughter, didn't want to have sex with their married boss. Married, for as long as we've been alive, essentially, married, that he would then try to ruin people's careers. It's so shocking and it's so petty and, you know, I don't know if you remember it, Hill. I'm going to lightly refer to something that if you want to talk about because it's your story. But, you know, we have that lovely moment.

Brooke and Peyton have that scene and I'm emotional with you and you're really emotional with me. And it's such a, oh, it's a moment that I really love to watch because it's beautiful. And it makes me really sad because we were alone. in that scene, you know, there's a wide cut where there's a bunch of people behind us, but what you do with all the extras when, you know, there's people behind them, but then the actors face each other in a different direction, is the extras go away so that things are quiet and it's easy to mix. And we hadn't been alone in a while, I don't think, you and I, in a scene like that,

if I'm remembering correctly. Not since we were brutally attacked at the prom. That's right. Oh, God. And, you know, things were really getting, as intense as they've been that people know about, they were getting worse by the end of this season. And there was a moment where in, you know, rehearsal,

our boss walked up and started, like, grabbed us both by the shoulders and started, like, very aggressively rubbing our backs. And I remember freezing up and looking at you, and you looked at me and you, like, you really let him have it. and it was a moment where like I saw the shock on his face that you snapped at him and I remember finally feeling like I could take a deep breath because like somebody else had seen it and it was happening to somebody like it wasn't an isolated incident and it was a moment where when you think about all the stories he liked to tell about all the girls

where being in the room and seeing your reaction I went oh a bunch of the shit that we're all being told about each other just isn't true. Yeah. Got it. Got it. And it was, it was a big, big moment and I've never forgotten it. Well, it, he had crafted this episode as his fantasy, which is why Elizabeth is in a little leather skirt. And it's why Rachel's back.

And it's why we're all doing a dance routine. And it's why Peyton is saying, oh, I just love sex so much, you know? It's why I had to make that line sound really stupid and goofy because it wasn't scripted to be stupid and goofy. What was the line? Peyton, you know, is talking to Clean Teen Shelley, and she's like, oh, no, I think it's cool.

I would have joined your group, except I love sex so much, you know? And it wasn't scripted to be, like, goofy, and I was directed to do it not goofy. And I was like, no, no. I mean, you can tell the episode is a fantasy. And he made us all take group photos with him in that house. He came up to our dance rehearsals. We were doing dance rehearsals in the second story of the house

while they would set up cameras and stuff. And he would not stop touching people. And it was relentless. And I knew it was happening to me. I'm watching it happen to DeNeil and Elizabeth and you. Like he's touching everybody, touching Lasseter, touching everybody. And so, you know, to your point, he came up and was, like, rubbing our shoulders. And I said, stop touching the girls, dude.

Stop. I'm telling you, as your friend, stop touching the girls. And, like, I looked at you and it felt like, it felt like telling the truth for the first time. You know, it's like when you speak back to your father figure or your boyfriend for the first time in front of people, you know? It's like, how dare you air our dirty laundry, you know? And so that was the Friday night of that week that we shot at the house. It was the last day we were there. And so I went to the production office at dawn the same way I always did because my boyfriend was an assistant director. And, you know, our executive producers are all there.

Greg Prange, David Hartley, the entire AD staff. My brother's there. Like, everyone is in the production office drinking PBRs and it's like awesome all right rap party is you know and 12 hours whatever and I get you know somebody came to the 80s door and said our boss wants you in his office right now and this is why he spread the coke rumor um I had to go in there and he just can launched into me how dare you don't you ever speak to me that way in front of people what the hell are you talking about i don't touch anybody i don't touch anybody here you're spreading rumors about me and just completely like was gaslighting me i'm like i'm like dude i'm friends with your wife like i'm telling you you have to stop and he said i'll never forget it he said you think we're friends i'm not your

friend i'm your boss and don't you ever speak to me that way again. And he's screaming at me. And those walls in the production office are paper thin. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. And I remember like my brother, my boyfriend, my boyfriend's dad are all on the other side of these paper thin walls and no one came. Yeah. Like no one came. And so finally, finally Greg Prange came in and was like, hey, is everything okay in here? And so, you know, cut to years later, the night that DeNeil introduces me to my now husband were in Timmy Nolan's on the Irish pub. And I didn't know Jeff from Adam. Like I'd never met this person.

And Jeff, he leans over at one point. He's like, hey, are you getting screwed with your boss? You know, the same way DeNeil is? And I was like, yeah, I'm not going back. I'm done. And he was like, I'm going to kick that guy's ass. And it was the first person in my whole life who had ever said it. And I believed it.

And I still believe it. Like, I know. Yeah. It was just for so many years, when you're the loud girl, you're just kind of expect to defend for yourself. And that was the first person that was ever like, oh, no, I'll destroy that guy. Hold on. Let me go to it right now.

But that moment of clarity with you that night, I cried when we watched it because I felt like it was the first time you really knew who I was. you knew that I wasn't his girl. Yeah. Well, you know what was really interesting. And I have chills listening to you talk about what he said to you that night because, and we talked about this in the beginning of the show. But early on, red dress episode for me, when groped me on set and I hit him, just like reflexively. Like, it was a reflex.

I got groped by a man and I hit him. That's when I got it. But what scared him, because it was so early that he wasn't. wasn't like in his power as a successful TV creator yet, he went back to the production office and he was screaming at Mike and a bunch of the writers telling them what a bitch I was. And I will never forget, it took till the end of season 8 for our sweet writer Mike Harrow to tell me what he had said to him because he had been so scared, getting screamed at in the production office in L.A.

And because he was an intern or like a writer's assistant back then. And when he got home, he was yelling about what an entitled little bitch I was. And all the writers were pretty freaked out. And Mike Harrow said, I tried to crack a joke. And I said, well, maybe she's just a 21-year-old girl who thinks she's entitled not to get her ass grabbed by her boss. And he screamed at Harrow and said, who the fuck do you think you are? You're going to say that I did that. I didn't do anything.

And yelled at him and threatened his job and told him if he liked working there, he better never talk to him that way again. So it's all the same. It's the same MO. Yeah, I mean, what's the clinical diagnosis of that when you clearly see? see someone do something and then they're like never happened yeah but the thing is our boss knew he f***ed up with me and so he did a lot of work with you guys to make me the bad guy yeah and he punished me on camera with things i had to do with story arcs that he gave to me he punished me in the public like he put me through the ringer with the press and he punished you

on our set he spread rumors about you he he wanted all of us to think oh she's a problem oh they she's got a weird relationship with fill in the blank yeah and the thing that happened that night like i literally i can it feels like it again like it was like a jolt like i felt like i got struck by lightning because i watched him say something to you and do something to you and it was exactly something he'd done to me and and I saw the look on his face and how mad he was and I'd seen that look before and I just went oh oh he does this with all of us oh wow and it did it really changed it changed everything and the ways that we had been manipulated and the ways we had been separated like it all started to change after that night it was never good again for me like

i have struggled in this week leading up to this recording because i'm like do i is this healthy for me to like keep digging into this stuff um and and what i struggled with was there's a actress who was on our show who i recently touched base with and she um was quieter during all the me too stuff And she said, I'm always scared that he's ghostwriting. I'm scared because he was never held accountable because the executive producers of our show never publicly said, we won't do business with him anymore. We're so sorry to you girls.

Like, because there was never any kind of closure, someone is giving him ghostwriting work somewhere. And there's this fear that we're going to walk onto a set one day and be confronted with that. And it's, you know, it's the book. boogeyman in the closet. And so, you know, to talk about it over and over again is just like I am making the commitment to continue talking about it so that other showrunners don't operate that way. And so that he's got no, he's got no safe passage. Yeah. I also think, look,

I get the mission of it. And I think that's really important for all of us. I know that the things we've gone through on sets have activated us all and made us the advocates we are. in a lot of ways. And I think it's also really important. Like, I've been talking about this with my therapist a lot because these last few weeks have brought up a lot of shit I know for us as a group. And he just keeps saying to me, this is your story.

You get to talk about your story. You get to tell your story. You get to process your story. You get to need help with your story for as long as you need it. And if other people didn't want you to tell your story, maybe they shouldn't have forced it to be written this way. And, you know, it's hard to look at it because, you know, what you experienced that night, the way you got yelled at, that's exactly the shit I was dealing with in Chicago.

And also had a group of men who were like, I love you so much. You're our best friend. You're on your own, kid. Right. Never got involved and never stood up. And I know some of them are mad that I acknowledge that when we talk about this show as well. And you know what? I don't care.

because that fear that I'm going to keep talking about it better be what makes you behave better on every set you're on like from the time that you left North Carolina and from the time that I left Illinois like they better behave better. They better be a little afraid. Be a little. I do love.

Be a little afraid. The piece of poetic justice here is that he crafted his ultimate fantasy. He's like, I'm going to have all the girls all at the same time and they're all going to be slightly slutty and danced for me. And it imploded so spectacularly. Just like, you put all of us in the same room to compare notes. Man, I went through a lot of my own version of that in the, you know, the group that I was in while we were on the show and a lot of this, you know, the same sort of patriarchal sociopathy, I guess.

And as I'm listening to you guys talk and I'm thinking about my own journey, you know, one of the things that makes that kind of abuse so hard to heal from is that it, and for me, I mean, I can only speak for myself. It has made it so hard for me to grow because growth requires trusting in the people around you. Like if I'm constantly being told, I'm a problem, I'm the problem, I'm the problem. And I was being told that on the set. I was being told that in the group that I was in. I was being told that in my marriage. It was like everywhere. I'm the problem. I'm the problem. Then I get out and it's, I'm in therapy and I've got good friends and suddenly like my life starts turning around and I'm going and everybody's telling me, Joy, you're not the

problem. I mean, you're not perfect, but like you're not, this is fake. This was all like an attempt to control you. And so then I start going, oh, okay, I'm not the problem. I'm not the problem. But then that becomes my narrative so that whenever there is a moment in life when I actually do need to grow, it's really hard to recognize it and not go back into the default of like, no, no, I'm not the problem. You weren't there. The proof is here. I'm not. It's not me. It's not me.

Like that's my knee-jerk reaction. And it's like painstakingly slow now with growth because it's so hard to trust to know who you can trust. when someone does lovingly tell you, hey, you know, this isn't the best. It's part of the journey of healing, too, to recognize what your triggers are. Like, I've had to learn where I throw my fists up. I'm ready for a fucking fight. Like, I'm ready all the time. And I've had to learn how to deal with that trauma and go, okay, if we're dealing with this

sort of complex after effect and my knee-jerk reaction, when I feel poked is to get ready to throw a punch, how do I take a deep breath and give myself a second? And it really struck me, like, you know, we're all able to talk about this as adults. But one of the things that struck me watching the episode and that strikes me even now is like, you had been through such shit with him, DeNeil,

and you got asked back. And I'm only really realizing now, like, god you like you came back and we got to have that moment all of us girls to have that closure together and you came right back into an environment where you had been just like joy's talking about it's you it's you it's you it's you'd gotten so shit on on our set and like it just makes me cry I'm like you came back for us like I came back to see you guys and I think the irony of all of that was when I got there and I've been thinking about

like do I bring this up? How do I bring it up? Because it's a delicate situation and I think the gist of what happened on that episode to me was the night we did the dance Bevan

came to my trailer and she was furious with me furious with me and would not speak to me and was just like I know what you did. And you're, it's so far.

And Bevin, if you, and she, like, she's my sister. Bevan does not get mad. No. Yeah.

Bevin will condone anything. Anything. She is like, not judgey. She never get. And so I was just like, and I literally had no idea what I did. So I was like in the middle of like seeing all my friends and being back in

this environment and so happy. And I, and then she comes in and I was like is like a joke this is a joke this is like some sort of like practical joke here and she was like no Danielle like it's

really fucked up and she walked out and it was something and what it was not important but it was something he told her I did that I didn't do he brought me back there to a

alienate me from Bevin, who I was very close to. Yeah. And, you know, she was, and we came to find out, of course, as we all did. Yeah. You know, months later, like, once we're back home, oh, you didn't do that? Because he had such an excellent way of pitting us all against each other. And at that particular point, she was close to him. Oh, yeah.

Yeah, she'd cycled in as we cycled out. Yes. We had all had it. I mean, I was like, I'll come and play, but it's to see my friends. And we did huddle up. Like it was the don't go to the bathroom by yourself kind of situation. And I was, and so when that happened, that was the night of the dance. And I just like, I'll never forget it because, like, there was nothing I could do to convince

her that day. And eventually I did. because we got together and figured out where it came from. And then we both got really mad at the right place and pointed our anger at the right place. But that's just another example of like what happens. And so when I watched the whole episode for me is that because it was just like, oh my gosh, are you kidding me? You brought me back to do this to me. Oh, yeah.

No, I'm going to humiliate you. Yeah. You thought you could get away. Yeah, it's a methodology of control. It's exactly what you were just saying, Joy, about your other experience. It's, let me figure out a way to isolate you as much as possible. And if that's your safe person, I'm going to ruin it. Yeah.

So you have to come to me. So you have to keep coming back to me so I can keep telling you who you are and who you aren't. And it is dark. Before we figured out, that's where it came from. that was he was the first person that came to be like is everything okay did you rub your shoulders i don't i don't know but i do remember and i was like no it's not okay and like i can't believe this is happening to me you know like it's just that that episode was aside from all the wonderful things it was dark because of that you know it was like

there was an elephant in the room for me yeah It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer, because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history.

On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app,

Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Guys, when I tell you, I haven't slept the two days leading up to doing this episode because it was like, it was so shhitty. And I'm like, I can't keep telling the story. I can't keep reading the fucking clickbait, you know, like, because it starts off as one article that's actually like really nice and fair. And then it gets boiled down to just gross headlines that live forever on the internet. And I am like, I can't keep talking about this stuff.

But until there's some kind of change in our industry, I don't know how we stop. The only reason that we made it out is because we had each other, you know? And we made, we had good families and we made the choices, you know. But we still made it out with scars all over our careers, too. Oh, my God. Yep. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I mean, it's also really interesting how the onus is always put on the girls. Well, what happened to her? Well, why'd that happen to you? You know, I've had multiple people say to me, when we got together, and I know you know this, Hillary, I don't know that the other two of you guys know this because you were one of the people I called freaking out when it was told to me. But when the whole gang of us got together to write our letter about our boss, because we believed that there was power in numbers, that it didn't.

didn't need to be, this is what happened to her and this is what happened to that girl and this girl over here had this. It was like, these are the collective experiences that we as cast and crew, females on this show went through. I had reps at the time when Me Too was breaking that October. A story was coming out about my co-worker in Chicago. And my rep said to me, you're going to have to pick. You can either tell the story about your first boss or you can tell the story about your coworker,

but you can't tell both because then it looks like it's your whole. fault. Yeah. And that was professional advice. Wow. But you picked us. You picked us. Of course I did. And I always would. I would forever. No, thank you. But like, you know, when when people on that other job say, why won't you stop talking about it? Or why do you need to bring it up? I'm like, you have no idea what I've withheld that's benefited you. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the truth. In the same way that we all feel about our boss on this show, the way I feel about the predator on my other, on that other show, is I'm not going to be able to take this chip off my shoulder until you face some fucking accountability.

Yeah. Because you got to do this thing. You got to scar all these women. You got to hurt all these people. You've left a body count in your wake of people who have to go to therapy and do all of this gnarly work. And we didn't ask for that. And I agree with you.

I don't know what we're supposed to do until there is some more accountability. I don't know what we're supposed to do that our boss was allowed to never make a comment. I don't know what I'm supposed to do that my next employers rebranded sexual assault with witnesses as, quote, anger management issues in the press.

I don't know what to do with that. And I don't know what to do with the fact that they get away with it, but every time I go on a set that's lovely, I start to go, okay, this set was bad and this set was bad. This movie was really great and this movie was really great

and this show was really great. Right, everything else is nice. Like, every other environment has actually been amazing. It just sucks that the ones we've been in the longest have been the worst. Yes. You know.

Danielle, now that you're producing, like how much of this affected how you and Jensen run your own shows? Oh, all of it. But also, I mean, we only hired people that know how to behave themselves in our upstanding, you know, our showrunner for Winchester's, which we just did, is so wonderful and so kind and caring with the actors and wanted their inputs creatively, checked to make sure they were okay with scenes. when, I mean, just across the board, hiring people to begin with that we trusted, you know, and then checking in.

We did a lot of checking in with the actors, which is something nobody really did for us. And treating everybody equally, like we're all part of this production. We're all going to, you know, yes, the showrunner is the top, but the showrunner still, getting together with the actors and asking how they feel about things genuinely, I think it's beautiful. And, you know, you feel that when you're working on a production. So we wanted to make sure that that was done on our first project. But yeah, you don't work with people just because, oh, this person's a great writer,

but we know there's a little bit of stuff in the background. that wasn't even a consideration, then that person was off the list. You know, as we're working on projects, we're always thinking about that. Especially a project where you're putting young people. I mean, we've all talked about that. I mean, young actors, you know, there's comments. I don't think I'll ever get over, you know, being called Old Neck and then like having to laugh that off because I have like lines on my neck that I've always had. You have a swan neck, DeNeil.

You're beautiful. But, you know, like old neck, the squeaky voice thing, them working it into the script, then, you know, yeah, I just got the phone with the network. And you're going to have to try a little harder because you're not as pretty as the other girl. It's unbelievable. It's just unbelievable. And I mean, I like, I totally believed it. I was like, you're right. It's so insane.

We were all, you walked on to set and we all went, holy shit. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. What do we, like, I could barely look at you when you first got there because I was like, she's so pretty. But y'all were all, you know, we were so young. And it was like, that One Tree Hill was my first big thing. So I was nervous and didn't really know what I was doing. And I was like, oh, yeah, okay, I'm not as, got it. Got it.

Try harder because you're going to have to. Insane. This is a network of beautiful people. And she's like, okay. And just the delivery on it was so matter of fact. Like, listen, this came from the high ups. And I was like, okay, you might not want to watch this scene because when you're crying in it, it's like really puffy.

You know, like, it's like, okay, okay, got to learn. Because I know some people look great crying. I legitimately do not, you guys. Oh my God, you crying with Uncle Cooper? We raved about that, Danielle, because you look like a girl. Like you have my invix into girl. No, you look beautiful. But you know how like when you, like when I cry, I legitimately, my face gets like two times more puffy.

But it's human. You're a human being. Like everyone looks bad when they cry. There's maybe like six people on the planet who look just absolutely stunning when they cry. But is it a real cry? I don't know. Because you know what? If you're really sad, you're fucking wrenching your guts out and you don't care what your face looks like.

And that's the truth. So, yeah, I mean, we are like those kinds of scar, like you just think about it and I'm like, you know, well, yeah. Your next job, you bring that into your next job. I 100% brought that into my next job. I'm like, okay, going to have to try harder on this one because I'm not as great as everybody else. And like, it's just. It's not true. We're all confident people because in a way because we got into this business.

but you know the insecurities are definitely there and you know putting your your art out there and when people purposefully pit you against your friends to make you feel like you know you're the least of this group isn't it so weird as adult women to go oh he did that to each one of us wow he did that to every single one of us he made us each feel that way I'll never forget I don't know if I ever told you this, but just an example to return to you of how crazy this was, y'all were with me. I was going through one of the most horrific times of my life in season three. I was not okay. And truly from the stress, just like experience that I was going through, I wasn't sleeping. My hair started falling out. I'd lost a bunch of weight. Like there was nothing I could physically do

to stop it from showing on my body. And I remember our boss coming up to me one day really early in the third season and putting his arm around me walking from base camp to the set and going, look at you, you've gotten so skinny. You look like you've been doing heroin or hanging out with Hillary.

Oh, God! Because he always told me that I was fat because I wasn't as skinny as you. Yeah. And he like said it to me like it was a compliment. And I was like, hi, I'm dying. Right. I don't know how to go to sleep anymore.

Like, how do you, I just, I really can't wrap my brain around somebody functioning like that on a day-to-day basis. Like, what the hell can a world do you live in with kids? Like you guys, we were kids, we were kids, we were kids. We were in our early 20s. None of us was old enough to rent a car yet. We couldn't rent a car. I don't know how you watch the magical, like basketball scene in this episode. and see all of that youthful exuberance

and think, I want to fuck those kids up. Like, we're so alive and right on the cusp of, like, doing the next big thing. And we all had so much ambition and potential and silliness in us. And why wouldn't you want that for your, like, as a producer now, like, you know, you and I love Meg Donnelly about it. much as I do.

And I, I am just like, you know, what, what don't I want for her? Everything. I want her to get everything. We were talking about it something earlier. And I was like, no, I'm producing a movie. And I'm like, Meg Donnelly, can I have her? What can we do to build her up? You're like, I need somebody like young.

I'm like, you should use Meg, Meg, you know? And it's like, I think that's the difference. And I want to see everybody I'm working with do amazing things. And like, oh my gosh, the world. I don't want to take everything from them. And, and, and, but I think that's the difference with, with someone like him is just, um, I want to own you. You're here because I said yes to you and no one else would have done that.

And thank goodness I gave you this break. Thank goodness. I put you where you are. Um, you know, and one tree hill was my big break. And, and yes, you did say yes. to me. And thank you. But the rest of the work I'm doing myself, you know, and the audition I did myself, you know, but back then I really couldn't think that way. You know, I was just, I was too young and too green. Well, we also just didn't know that there was a world where we could

be mentored instead of stepped on. You guys, I did. He was mentoring me. He was absolutely like, we're going to start a record label together. Yeah. We're going to do with this production company together. So I had started a production company this season, season four of Wentrue Hill. I started Southern Gothic productions. And the scene that Chad and I shot in my comet convertible by the water, I will remember that day as long as I live because he was directing. And we were, he was seated up with me on the back seat while we were waiting for the camera to move.

And I'm like, and we found this script. And this guy, Nick Gray, my best friend, like, wrote it. And I was, like, so excited. I'm like, and we're going to take it to this person. And we have UTA looking at it. And, like, there was all this momentum. I remember that. And he just stopped me.

And he's like, honey, you're not smart enough to be a producer. Just enjoy being an actress. It's so much less work. And I, so I just want to say, God damn it, we're all producers now. So eat a bag of dix. Every single one of us is a producer now. Yes. That's just a terrible way to look at things. And I think I, from what I've seen on my end, that dynamic is changing. It's changing in the writer's room, definitely that we had for Winchester's. There wasn't a us against the actors, you know, the producers against the actors. Why does it have to be like that? It doesn't. You know, in order to have a good production and turn out a good. good show everybody has to be on the same page working together best idea wins all i was just gonna say

that yes best idea wins that's my favorite just like watching a production work like that is so so much more beautiful and then everybody's i don't think producing i would argue that that acting is harder but um i don't know maybe depends depends on on the film or movie i guess but yeah that's that's upsetting i remember when that happened to you we had good stuff in this episode we had really good stuff in this episode and so for the fans at home that love it i don't want to shit on it because i love it too and i think that's what's so confusing is that it can be an awful experience but a thing that we still love i loved that house it's reflective in this actual episode i mean like that struck me right off the bat and me

it was just like it's so great and it's so bad and that was my experience in this episode was I had so much fun I hadn't seen my friends in a while I was coming back I had done a film in between and I felt like more confident in what I was doing and I came back with like yes I kind of doing I'm kind of doing good and then I got like smacked in the face um but so it was it was the episode of highs and lows both on and off camera for me. Yeah. For sure. I think what's really important to reiterate about stuff like this and you're right is that it's both. You know, you can grow up with a complex family and have had nightmare times with them and beautiful times with them. And I think it's really important to remind our friends at home that,

you know, they watch an episode that's an hour long. But this took us eight days. for 17 hours a day. Some of those hours were terrible and really hard. And we were prepared for battle almost every day by now, by the end of season four when we'd come to work and our boss would be there. But we also had times where we were having so much fun together. And I see that in us when we're dancing and we know we don't know the words. We know the words, the moves.

I remember when I got to a point, I was wearing pumps. and they kept trying to fly off my feet so I wardrobe rubber banded my shoes to my feet and after a while I was like I can't feel my feet you guys if I fall on you I'm so sorry oh my God how funny that was and I remember to your point the exuberance

like when we got to the river court and people started kicking their shoes off and we were throwing our jackets he wasn't directing us to do any of that we were doing it because we were together and there was beauty in it but I think it's very hard when the world has only seen and celebrated the beauty of an experience to be

the one who knows there's pain. Like, you've got to cut it out and you got to clean out the wound. And I'm, I'm proud of us for doing this together. And I'm proud of the people who listen to us who talk about how it matters and who are motivated to share about their own lives because of things we share on this show. Like, I really think healing is contagious. And so, you know, you said a hill he can eat a bag of dicks look at us now all the dicks my god look at us now look at us now

is that the title of this episode yeah I love it I love it I just love that there's a whole new crop of young actors coming up through you Danielle because you know how to prepare them and protect them and that's awesome

yeah that's beautiful I think just you know we we need to just share that message the most, you know, on how to behave. Yeah. I think that that's the key. And also the young people coming up now,

man, I can't imagine somebody on set grabbing someone's ass and that person not just turning around immediately, you know, or somebody's, like it feels like, it feels like we are close to real change.

Yeah. It really does. Yeah, these kids have social media. God bless them. They can just tweet some shit out real quick. I wish we'd had that. Exactly. Good for that.

I love it. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner

in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions. live while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Do we have fan questions or do we want to just pick an honorable mention for this very

conflicted episode? Yeah, I think let's go for honorable mention. You know, I loved Lee Norris. jumping off of the roof and making his way down to Brooke Davis and punching that grabbing that solo come? And punching the guy.

I love it. He's sorry, you look great. I love that moment. Yeah. I wish I wish Mouth and Rachel would have kicked. I know. Yeah.

You were being punished. Sophia got your present. I love it. Yeah. No, Mouth had a nice reclamation. and he never went creepy. He didn't try to sleep with Shelly. He didn't push it with Brooke.

It was just, I love you. You're my friend. Good luck. Yeah. See later. Yeah. Yeah. Sweet.

Ladies, oh, God, we graduated. I feel like I could take a breath now. I'm going to sleep tonight. Yeah. This episode's done. Danielle, thank you so much for joining us. No, thank you. This was good.

A little bit of therapy. Absolutely. All right, let's spin that wheel. What do we have this week? This is the last wheel of high school, ladies. Ooh, I hope it's about high school. Well, let's just apply whatever it is to high school. Okay, okay.

Like in bed on a fortune cookie? Most likely to become a momager. Oh, well. I mean, it's you. It's Brooke, right? It's Brooke? Yeah. Oh, my God.

I feel like because Brooke's mom was her CEO, she would never, but maybe. We all become our parents. Yeah. All right. Then Brooke. Yeah. I think Deb could go momager. By the way, I was just going to say, if Brooke did it the way Barbara's done it in real life,

where she's raised her girls to be these amazing actresses and then goes and works on their shows to make sure they're safe. Yeah. But like, they're obsessed with her. Like they're having the best time. I'm like, that could be fun. No, absolutely. Barbara is the perfect example of the best way to do it.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She wins. Agreed. Love you, Barb. Okay, friends, next episode, I can't believe it. We're time jumping to season five, episode one, four years, six months, and two days.

Oh, my gosh. The only thing I remember is Rachel being a junkie. Danielle, before we lose you, do you want to give any, like, drug advice or? Don't do drug. Don't do them. I love it. Yeah, I'll come back for that episode.

That crazy, we're in the shower. There's so much to talk about in that episode. So much good stuff, good Rachel stuff coming up. I love it. All right, we love it. All right, everybody. See you. I love you.

Thanks for joining us, friends. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queen's O-T-H or email us at Drama Queen's at I-HartRad dot com see you next time we're all about that high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school queens we'll take you for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens drama queens smart girl rough girl fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us

girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get. your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.