Drama Queens - Look Me in the Eyeliner • EP406

Episode Date: December 12, 2022

While Nathan and Haley’s struggle, Brooke’s secret relationship and Peyton’s recovery highlight the episode. It’s actually Lucas rocking the ‘guy-liner’ that sends Joy, Hilarie and Sophia down a path of former fashions they “pulled off.”  Plus, find out what parts of this episode in particular, still don’t quite sit right even after all these years.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From prologue projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens.

We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens. You could be smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. Queens. Welcome back, friends. It is episode 406, season four, episode six. Where Did You Sleep Last

Night? This aired originally November 8th, 2006. That tracks. It does look like fall in Wilmington. Oh, yes. Like, you can see that it's approaching, and we were probably only, like, you know, what, three weeks out from air dates or whatever when we were filming? Not the point. The synopsis of this episode while we romance the fall season that we're currently in. That's what, by the way, that's why we probably all had such good hair in this episode. Oh my God, because the humidity was down. Yeah, truly everyone's hair did look so great and I didn't think about that part and you're a thousand percent right.

It has to be. It's like the humidity dropped below 80 percent. Seasonal success. We did. Well, kids, this week, Nathan and Haley are worried about their financial situation. Nathan goes to someone new for help. Dun, done, done. Brooke continues her secret relationship with her English teacher.

Oh my God. We'll get to that. Lucas comes back to play for the Ravens while Peyton continues to lean on him after the attack. Plus, she finds strength in herself after the help of her real brother, who is serving in the Marines. So nice to see Ernest Waddell and you in this episode, Hill. It was so good. Guys, I have opinions about that boxing scene. What? Okay, you go ahead. Go ahead. No, no, no. It's so late in the episode. I feel like I do this every time where every time we watch an episode, I'm like, I have a strong opinion about this. And then we get out of chronological order and I don't know how to get back on time. Look, I get it. Those scenes are super hard to shoot. We'll get to it when we get to it. I understand as an actor why as an actor you probably really hated doing that. But as a viewer, I'm going to say I like.

liked it. And as a viewer, I really, really, really loved the opening for you. It's such a stark surprise seeing you in Peyton's room when everything is white. White. And truly, the thought, I wrote it down. Because, you know, Lucas comes in, sees it. You're very stoic. And you say that maybe you can paint the shadows away. And Hillary, I swear to God, I wrote down. I wrote down. I said, how did she deliver that line? Because I know you read it and went, what fuck is this? Who says this? And you did it in a way that was so good and so like layered and I could see how shaking you were and that this was such a coping mechanism.

And I loved it. And that is such evidence of when we got scripts that we went, who says this? And then you make it work. And I just want to know where are all of the Emmys? That's all. Here's what's weird is it's like we just did this huge episode of major, major, major trauma. And the only people interacting with Peyton are the boys, right? Like not one girl goes to talk to her.

Like, oh, baby, you were just almost raped? That's weird. Like that brother we met at that house party turned out to be a total creep. not one girl goes to talk to her which is you can tell that like boys wrote this because like we would be in each other's like you could be my mortal enemy oh we would have both crawled into bed with you

and never left your house and yeah no no but boys are the heroes friends well it's also such elementary school politics like and I know we've talked about this a lot but it's the way men think women are like the fact that after this has happened to Peyton, the only mention of you between the girls

is between Joy and I. It's Brooke and Haley getting on the bus, and I'm like, don't tell her I asked about her. Like, that's like if you, I don't know, like stole my prom dress or some dumb thing. Which I will do. Don't worry. You sure will. It's a little foreshadowing for the fans,

a little Easter egg. But no, truly, it's like, it's so insane that we are not just there. Like any fight, any upset ceases to matter in the face of something so seismically circumstantial. Yeah. I mean, even Brooke, the comment that Brooke makes by the bus is some, I can't remember what it was, but it was something very flippant. Like, oh, because some psycho, like, came after her to turn out to be a crazy person.

What did you think? Wait, wait, it's something about like, oh, one little stalker. And it's like, I'm sorry, she almost got raped and murdered. She's got scabs all over her face. Yeah. Yeah. And you think, like, Luke didn't actually go tell both of them exactly what happened and how awful it was. Also, where is Larry?

Did she not tell her dad? What is going on? Well, she says that she won't call him, which also is insane. Technical question. Like, I work on a television show that involves law enforcement now. And I don't feel like 16-year-olds get to make that choice. Like, I feel like law enforcement has to call the homeowner or has to. call the parent. And also is the parent in trouble now? Because they've left an underage kid

by themselves, you're not a story. Like, huge missed opportunity for a story. Yeah. Yeah. If Peyton is like, if Child Protective Services is called, because Peyton's been left alone for two years as a minor, where's a grandparent? Where's an aunt or uncle? Like, literally, where is anyone? Where are the adults? Where is anyone? But the title of this episode. Where are the adults? But I do think, again, it leans into this fantasy idea of, you know, kids wanting to go out on their own. And it leans into what we clearly see budding in this episode so literally, not even just in these figurative ways that we've been portrayed on screen for the last couple of years. But it's the adultification of teenagers.

it's it's this notion that you know they're on their own and the room the quote romantic idea is that they're finding their way but the gross thing is that they're being treated like grownups and not being supported and um i don't care how many times we have brook davis repeat that she's 18 i was just gonna say brook should just wear a button she should have a button hi my name is Brooke, I'm 18. So gross. And it's like it will never make it okay. It will never be okay that Larry's not there for Peyton.

It will never be okay that Brooke's teacher is sleeping with her. And that Haley's parents are incognito. Yeah, hello. She needs money and she can't call her parents. That was so weird. I really had a problem with that. I really had a problem with that because the whole thing about who Haley was in the beginning was that she so badly wanted,

she saw Nathan as someone who was independent and she saw his reliance on Dan as a weakness. And she was so encouraging of him to do things on his own, to get away from his parents. She would never have respected that that he would go to his dad for money, his dad who has been so abusive in his life.

And I remember when we got that script that I was, I think what I would, remember is that I had a lot going on in my personal life as usual. And I remember being like this you, you at the best. Oh my God. Your hair looked good. But I yeah, I just remember really feeling gross about that and like kind of pushing through it. And I remember wanting to spend time arguing about it, but I just didn't have the energy. And I was like, fine, whatever I'll say it. And watching this now, I'm like, I really wish I had pushed back on that a little bit because it's just so out of character for her.

Well, and, like, there were so many other people to call, like, Haley's parents were the no-dah, but what about Grandpa and Grandma? Yeah, what about Whitey even? Yeah, Whitey, give me some money. That would have been a great arc. That's right. Heidi, give me my money. Well, what about Lucas and Nathan teaming up to do some kind of something, to raise money to, like,

I feel like there were just so many opportunities. I don't know why, I don't know why he went to Dan. Well, but the only reason he went to Dan was to set up Rick Fox being like a lone shark. That's lazy writing. I agree. I fully agree. I'm just saying you can see it. It's like, so much of what we're seeing here

is lazy writing. It's like, let's get the mafia involved. Let's get the girl. Let's get the girl banging her teacher in the classroom. Like, it's all just so gross. And it's like, it just, it truly does remind me like, oh man, And anytime you doubt yourself, just imagine you had the confidence of a mediocre man.

Mediocre middle-aged man. Like truly, because the level of mediocrity that we're seeing here, it's like you threw the stone two inches and went, that'll do. Like, come on. Come on. You know, this is something Rob Buckley said to me once. I was telling him, I was talking to him about this guy that I was seeing and I wasn't sure what to do. And I was like trying to explain, like, how do I, you know, what the whole situation was. Anyway, he just, at one point, he just looked at me and he was like, this guy's not making any effort, Joy. And I was like, but he did this and he did that, blah, blah, blah. And he was like, Joy, that's showing up with shoes on. Oh, oh.

You're giving him way too much credit. Yeah. And it's, I love that phrase and I use it all the time now. Thanks, Robert Buckley. But that's what this episode was. Showing up with shoes on. Yeah. It was, there were so many lazy writing moments.

Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is, I think it could have been really cool, you know, to your point, if Nathan had leaned on Lucas and said, I'm really struggling, man, here's what's going on. And the Ravens had organized something. Wouldn't it have been cool to see Rick Fox? Like, okay, let's go really cliche high school. Let's say they organized the Ravens basketball players do a car wash. Yes. Wouldn't it be cool to see Rick Fox creep through there in his fancy Cadillac? notice he needs money. It wasn't that fancy of a Cadillac, by the by. I was like, if we're trying to sell that this dude's, like, successful, why is the English teacher driving a cooler car than, like, the lone car? A hundred percent.

It's so insane. That didn't track. It's so insane. I love this daydream, though. Yeah, that's way better. Or the River Court boys. It could have been so cool. Yeah. But all those boys, and that's what I'm saying, like, they could have done something, and

then the creepy guy could have come in the mix and, and, you know, even asked somebody, like, what are we doing? And it's like, oh, well, you know, Nathan's got a baby on the way. We're raising some money. Like, it could have all seemed very innocent and fun and led to something sinister. But instead, we just put pedal to the metal on, like, sinister stranger. Yeah. Because then Dan could have offered to give him money.

And then Nathan could have chosen to take it from Rick Fox instead of his dad. Yeah. I've been like, no, I got it. Right. I mean, there's so many interesting ways. I feel like this episode, not this episode, but this kind of cluster of episodes is really when one tree hill started to jump the shark. And it was because when we had the whole thing of like, who killed Dan?

And people started making like references to Dallas. And who shot J.R. Who shot J.R. Yeah. It felt like some of our. bosses thought, oh man, we are going to enter into a legacy of done, and so they wanted those big, huge, weird storylines. I don't know any of our fans that loved our show for those big, huge, weird storylines. Everything that they bring up is like the small, intimate moments.

Yeah. I just don't think they could get away from the competition of OC and Gossip Girl and how big those shows were in the industry because one tree hill was super popular with our crowd like our grassroots crowd which was a huge population but it wasn't like the it we weren't the show that was getting all of the sort of Hollywood attention and I think there was an obsession with the competition like trying to put us on on the same level or something so strange it may look different but native culture is very alive my My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very

traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornales, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story. along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con

or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why?

Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare, and, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years.

I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's also so weird to me because the Hollywood attention, to your point, Joy, like, that's all manufactured. 100%. That's publicists doing their jobs, sending people to events.

We weren't in, we weren't getting that level of Hollywood attention because we weren't in Hollywood. We weren't in L.A. or New York. What was that dorky club that everybody went to? Remember that club that, like, everyone was. seen at and they were all like oh oh like hide that's what it was one of those places hide still there i've never been like you guys we we couldn't wrap work and go to some fancy event or a publicity dinner or uh like we were just working and going home and like going to the copper penny to have like two dollar beer and i loved that but we we weren't in the mix in that way

And so it's just so odd to me that, you know, it's like if they wanted it that badly, they could have done with us what they did was shameless. Like we could have shot in L.A. at Warner Brothers and then done exteriors in Wilmington for like six weeks a year. But they didn't want to do that. And so it's like, pick one. You either want to be the show that shoots in the town where your show is set or you want to like send your kids to Rolling Stone parties, but you can't have both. It's 100% true. And you, Sophia, in particular, worked your ass off to maintain and build your career off of this show by doing things like flying back and forth every weekend to L.A. to make sure that you were able to participate in the things that you wanted to be there for, which got you more work, which gave you an opportunity to have the platforms that you have now. It's like there was this amazing stepping stone that you saw, especially with your PR brain too, because you went to school for journalism or for... for journalism. I appreciate that, but I got to say, it didn't feel like that. For me, like, I was hustling home as often as I could for, like, meetings. I was going home to

audition a lot. Yeah. I've, I've never really been a person who loves, like, sending it a tape. So if there was something I really wanted to, like, fight for, you know, I would, I would fly. I would take the meeting. I would do whatever. I would definitely make sure, especially by this point, that, like, any event for charities I was working with, I would make it home. But it's funny because to me it felt so much like there was so much I wanted to do that I just couldn't because we were in Wilmington. It wasn't possible. And even with work sometimes, like, oh, I remember there are two movies that like still crush me that I was supposed to do. And then because of our dates, because like we would do 24 episodes instead of 22. I couldn't. And I watched people go do these projects and

just be like, oh my God, I wanted that so bad. But, you know, it's like we tried. We tried to do anything that we all could. And certainly by this point, I was just like itching to do anything else. Yeah. Then hook up with teachers or like random part-time models. Yeah. So weird that I was looking for more fulfilling work than storylines like this. Really annoyed me in this episode watching the, I was like, can they not think of anything else for Sophia to do? You're so good. I don't understand why it was just continually over and over, oh, here's a new boy, let's

throw them on Sophia. Can we come up with something else, please? But they've also got you bitchy like season one too. You're being punished in this episode. They were like, all the stuff you've worked for for all these. years, we're back in square one. We shoot some ladder to you all the way back. You know what I will say? I don't like, obviously, we've talked about this. I don't like the way that Brooke and Peyton are relating at this point. But I get, I get that they want us

separated so they can have the big reunion episode at, you know, prom or winter formal or whatever it is. But I love, like, even when Brooke is hysterical or like stressed and gets really snappy, I love the comedy of Brooke and Rachel. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. me too like all of that is so fun and rich and hilarious and like us in the bathroom killed me i was like god i loved this and i just wish they had let us have more fun together and that it didn't always have to be about a guy that's all we ever talked about brook and rachel boys boys boys boys boys boys and it's like we're we're both too good for that i like that you guys went i mean i literally wrote in my notes Brooke and Rachel besties with the whole

mixtape or earrings thing and then literally like two seconds later you skanked me into this like the turn from like oh my god we're best friends we've earned it like this feels nice

to end you're dead to me it's so funny it's so high school that is so high school what high school girls do can we talk for a second about Lucas's cluelessness at the beginning of this episode well, also the introduction of Chad's platinum blonde hair. Yes, that's what I want to talk about.

Because at some point between Derek, almost raping and murdering his best friend slash feature wife, and this episode, he had time to go dye his hair, platinum blonde. What's going on? Guys, I'm into it. Like, here's what my brain remembers. I yesterday had to do a sit down for a documentary about TRL and about like the MTV of it all.

and how it did tie into One Tree Hill. Like, we were, like, the music stuff, you know. Oh, yeah. They literally handed us the fan base we had on a silver platter because the numbers were the exact same between TRL and One Tree Hill. And we had no, like, emo representation with the boys on the show.

And, like, Chad was like, give me that torch. I am going to be the boy wearing eyeliner and with the platinum blonde hair. and I am going to be your emo dream come true. And like for a lot of girls, he did it. He should have had a bass guitar that he just like slung around. That would have been. That's what I was going to say, though, is like he's leaning into that level of emo in a way that I almost wish they'd let him take it a little farther.

Yeah. In this episode, like he's wearing that, I don't know if it was like an Ed Hardy shirt or whatever that is, but it's got like a skull and like things out of the necklace. And I was like, I was like, but let it, let it go the two steps past, let it go to actual rock and roll instead of the like middle mall rock and hearty thing. Because like Chad committed to it. Like his hair is bleached out. He is, I don't know if it's eyeliner or eye shadow or whatever he's wearing that like leans into that very fallout boy like eye makeup. It's guy line. It's, but it works on him.

Like, and I don't, I don't know if he found it first like doing the Jack Sparrow or whatever. I don't know. There was something I saw in this where I was like, wait, like, let him, like, let him go. Is this why Lucas and Beaton are really soulmates? Because he's deep down and emo rock and roll-in-worlddown. But that's what I was about to say. Like, I almost wish, I almost wish they'd let him, like, lean further into it with wardrobe and stuff because it is when you guys really begin this, like, deep bond that sets you up.

Like, when we get to the end of this season and you have the It's You moment, like, I don't know. I love, there's something about it that reminds me of, like, when you guys were trading records in season one. And I'm like, oh, I want more of that. Like, don't you feel that? Like, you can kind of sense it coming? It was such a thing during this time period. And for us to not have any of the boy characters embody, like, that emo look. in like the vibe and the music and stuff like that.

Like, let him be our Billy Idol. Come on. We were coming off of Pearl Jam and Nirvana. And even Dave Matthews band was kind of the new generation of that that we were all into. But that was all very emo stuff. And the guys were kind of grungy. And yeah, we never got, we never had that. In pop music, it was all pop punk.

So it was like the used. And then Canada gave us some 41. And we had Fall Out Boy. And those were all like the kids that would come on TRL. and every damn one of them was wearing guy liner. Totally. But I think, but that's what I'm saying is like, I wish they'd let it go a little farther with him

and like that wardrobe had leaned into it because there's something kind of cool. Again, the women see it. The guys in the writer's room are not like doing enough. But when you think about the fact that Peyton was super into Pete Wentz, I love the idea that post-Pete Wentz, Lucas decides he wants to be like a little more emo and like maybe we'll rock and roll

Rackerel t-shirts. Right. I love that. I like that's what I'm saying. I think it's so cute and like vibey and I don't know I'm like damn I wish that they'd been smart enough to like track it that way and lean into it a little more. Because clearly

he was game like he was enjoying it so like let him live. If Peyton's the goth girl on the cheerleading squad Having a guy and eyeliner on the varsity basketball team is not something that we'd seen on television. Yep. That was new. It's also really probably the most normal thing that happened in this episode because having a preteen boy right now, you know, we're going to go to a concert this weekend and see monoskin, those hot little Italians who all wear makeup and girl clothes. I love them.

And I was like, Gus, do you want to wear eyeliner? And he's like, uh, fuck yeah. Of course I do. And that level of experimentation in middle school and high school is not something that we're seeing a lot of with the boys on our show. And so cheers to Chad for. I think he's the one that initiated it. I don't think anyone in the hair and makeup trailer was like, hey, we should try this. I think he was the one.

No, he definitely. He definitely did that. That was what he wanted. And I just think like it would have been so cool if instead of. kind of like fighting to rein him in on it. Yeah. Our creative team had been like, wait a second. Yeah.

This is going to be a vibe. Like, Lucas goes from being a very, you know, carbon copy southern boy who gets like a generic, terrible tattoo with Brooke to like finding his identity, which is more emo with Peyton. Like, I love that. I love that. I love that evolution, and I don't know, he loved it. And so I just wish they'd, like, seen it as an asset and let him run with it and leaned into it for the two of you. Because as the two of you are having this experience that leads to the future of your characters, I just think it would have been really cute if you'd started to look more alike.

Like brother and sister. That's gross. Like Brad and Gwinnett. Matching haircuts. Do you remember the first time that you, like, tried something new at school? Like, that you went out there and you were like, oh, yeah, I'm going to be different today. Oh, I literally thought you were going to be like, do you remember the first time you realized you were wearing the same outfit as your partner? And I was like, yeah, Grant and I literally do it all the time.

We'll, like, we'll, like, meet upstairs to go to dinner. And I'll just be like, ah, one of us has to change. Someone needs to take all the blazer. We're just wearing all the same colors. And I'm like, oh, my God, we really are becoming the same person. But, oh, high school. Yeah, my first one was when I went to high school. I showed up in New Jersey from Texas.

Yes. And that combo did not fly. I had to get tough fast. Is that when you started wearing your hoop earrings? That's when I started doing the dark brown lip liner hoop earrings. It was like the frosty brown lipstick, but with the dark brown eyeliner. Mack, swirl. Oh, I remember.

Julie, you looked like Mariah Carey. Like, you showed us pictures, and I'm like, oh, my gosh. God, that's Mariah Carey. Yeah. It's hot. What did you do, Hillary? I mean, I very much wanted to fit in because I'd been an ostracized kid. And so freshman year, like, went to the mall and bought all the things that Abercrombie had.

And, like, freshman year was Abercrombied out. And then I started dating this, like, really bad boy. And I didn't have, like, I didn't have to follow any rules anymore. I could do whatever the fuck I wanted and nobody could say anything to me. And so I started dressing like a man. Like I went to the thrift store and bought like old man trousers and would wear little teeny tiny shirts with like big old man pants. And that feeling of just like, oh, that's still my vibe. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But that feeling of like, oh, I don't have to play by the rules. And some people are going to make fun of this. But like the hot people aren't. This is my uniform.

Like you feel it. You step into it. Yeah. Oh, yeah. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who was. with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts,

or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why. Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare. And, frankly, bullshit.

We kill the ambassador just to cover something up. You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok, from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up.

Listen to Fiasco. Benghazi on the IHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. I remember there was one summer at camp. I started going to camp when I was nine. Well, and you had a literal uniform that you had to wear at school, right? Oh, yeah. So, like, weekends were our playground. But yeah, I mean, I, like, I bought uniform skirts in seventh grade and never bought new ones. So in seventh grade, they were, like, oversized, like, school girl, like, to the knees and by my senior year I looked like a cheerleader because I was like I'm not spending my money on new new skirts I'm never wearing these again absolutely not um but yeah there was like god the summer between eighth and ninth grade was when all the huge like giant Union Bay jeans were a thing and so it was like big baggy jeans little crop tops and my friend Lauren and I got really into white eyeliner and we would do this like thick white white Like chunky, thick white eyeliner on our upper lids and so much mascara.

And we were just like, we are so cool. Like, we're so cool. Oh, man. God, the white eyeliner, I'd forgotten about that one. Oh, yeah. It was great. I'll find photos. I tried that once for an event.

It was like something in New York Fashion Week. I was like, I'm going to really just go out on a limb and do white eyeliner. Let me tell you what does not look good on my face. I don't know if it looked good on my face either, but, God, I felt fabulous. And remember the little plastic, like, woven chokers that looked like little flowers? Yes.

So we'd have the little flower choker and white eyeliner and little tops and giant jeans. Oh, man, it was a moment. So twiggy. Yeah. Oh. We all had chokers, right?

I had the leather choker. That was like... But then I realized, like, I had a weapon around my neck. Like, anybody could have murdered me wearing something like that. Because it won't break? Yeah, it won't break.

It went and it was like woven leather. What was yours, Joy? Did you have like a cameo on one? Oh, yeah, probably. I did. Oh, God, I loved cameos. I nailed it. So predictable.

Yeah. Victorian. I had a cameo. Yeah, Velvet Choker with a cameo on it. God, I think I wouldn't still wear that, by the way. Oh, yeah. I'm like, I think I've seen you wearing one of those, actually. Yeah, hold on.

I feel like I'm on the internet right now buying us chokers. The Interweb. I was watching The Great. I was watching that on Hulu. Oh. Oh, it's so good. It's about Catherine the Great, but it's Elle Fanning and Nicholas Holt. Isn't it very like, genius? It is. It's bubble gum pop.

I'm excited. And the costumes are insane. The sets are insane. The acting's brilliant. It's all very, very well done. But there's a character, and she always wears a diamond necklace. like a tennis necklace, a bit thicker, and then with a ribbon, like just a ribbon choker around her neck and this diamond necklace together. Every time I see it, I'm like, I need that in my life. Yeah. Happy holidays. That's the look. Let's do that. Next time.

So you made the choice not to wear a lot of makeup in this episode, speaking of makeup, Hillary and I it's the first time I remember seeing that because even after Ellie died like they still you still had lipstick on the next day not like it was noticeable it was just like you know there was a uniform for all of us for our faces and it was just like that's what it is you're on the CW you have to look like this and I really loved that you in this episode had you probably had foundation on it your skin looked amazing you were super glowing best hair days you've ever had, so far. And...

I didn't shower the whole time. Maybe that was it. I don't know, but you, but did you have to fight anybody on that? Or was that a pretty easy transition? You were like, look, I just had an attack. I'm going to not have makeup on this episode. Watching this episode back, I can't pinpoint exactly what it is. But I, it's like I had acid reflux watching this episode back.

like my body remembers being mad or like grossed out or just like toxic and I I hate it this like I watching it back almost 20 years later I'm like I hate this I hate this I didn't like the trauma bond between Peyton and Lucas and I didn't have the words for that back then but the romanticizing of a trauma bond is weird for me as a grown-out, you know, like, this child has been assaulted. She is living in Karen's house, and, like, no adult talks to her. And so, of course, she is so glued to Lucas's side. Yeah.

That's not love. That's not love. Yeah. That's trauma. And, like, at what point, you know, does Sleeping Beauty wake up from that and say, oh, oh, I've kind of been in a holding. pattern just trying to like survive every day. So I really didn't like that. I really didn't like how Derek was directed to be so hostile. I didn't like that we finally had another black man on the show and he was directed to be super hostile. And I thought it was out of character

for a Marine. They are trained to control their feelings. And so there was a lot there. That's interesting. Yeah. It's a lot there that I was like, Ernest is a good good actor. So I don't like this direction that he was given. Yeah. And I thought the whole get over at Peyton messaging was shitty. Yeah. You know, like, yeah. Not a way to handle sexual assault. 100%. I see all that. Yeah. I mean, I think these are great points. But you as an actor did a really good job. So I'm saying, you took that plate of shit and you garnished it. So that You really did. You did.

You really did a beautiful job. And I will say, like, the thing that I wrote down, the thing that felt the most authentic, to me, there's a line really early in the episode that is something that makes me one. I just want to punch people in the face when they say this to anyone who's been through something. Lucas says to you, if you let this change you, he wins. And it's like, excuse me? Yeah. There is a before and an after when you go through something like this, and you just so simply respond and say, then maybe he wins. I mean, that's probably how I would answer in real life.

Yeah. Yeah. You then, fine. But it was the only acknowledgement of, of course, this is going to change me. And in whatever way you frame it, I'm different. And like, it felt like an acknowledgement and, you know, a bit of. of a protest because someone who hasn't been through that kind of trauma doesn't have a right to tell you not to be changed.

Yeah. You know, and I know we've said this. He was so flippant at the beginning of the episode, the whole, like making jokes like, oh, let me guess what happened. Like, you're not feeling. Like, you know, the hat and the thing. He was kind of poking fun at you. I just, I really didn't understand where he was coming from at all with any of that.

Well, also the whole sentiment, the whole episode is that you're a lesser person. person if you have been changed by a traumatic event. And Peyton is treated. Or you're weak. Yeah. She's treated like she's lesser. It's like, oh, if you could just get back to being old Peyton, then you'd be a tough girl again.

And for the first time, she's actually being honest and admitting, hey, I'm scared. Hi, I don't want to be myself. I'm telling people the truth for the first time ever. I'm really struggling here. And it's like, oh, God. She's a fraction of who she used to be. and you think that was the whole episode or you feel like that was just where Lucas was coming from no I feel like that's how but the only two people Peyton

interacts with are Lucas and Derek and they're both telling her that you know I didn't I think that's why I liked the boxing scene so much it didn't seem to me that that's not the message I got anyway I liked the interspersing of all the flashbacks of every of all these painful moments that have hit Peyton that she's just sort of taken emotionally she's been taking these hits, taking them, taking them, taking them. So to fight back is meaningful. I felt a catharsis for her in that as I was watching it. I was like, yeah, that's, you can't just keep taking the hits.

You have to find a way to release. I see the metaphor. So I liked it for that reason. It was joy. That day at work was so awkward. Because also, you see this big, huge scar on my night? Like, I've got a big middle knuckle over here. Yeah.

And it's because my brother had left a dirty dish in the sink and I was pissed and I went to go wash it and it shattered and it sliced open my knuckle and like cut the tendon. Cut to like three days later. I've got to shoot this boxing scene. Oh, no. So the reason my hands are all hidden in the sleeves of that sweatshirt or because we had to like pad the shit out of it because I'm, Ernest was all past. it up. They didn't even have him. It was like, they didn't have him grab a bag or something or like a pad for me to punch. I was supposed to be punching him. But the way it had to be shot, I wasn't actually punching him. I was just kind of swinging my arm and having to like fake punch

the side of him, which looked stupid. And I knew it looked stupid on the day. And anytime you have to do a stunt that you know look stupid on the day and cry on top of it, you're just like, why is everyone fucking with me today? Why can't I just punch something directly or not cry? It didn't look that bad.

Now that they, once they edited everything and they cut it all together with all of the, you couldn't tell. I mean, I could tell you can tell. You can tell. But it's only because

I know how you had to shoot it. It was uncomfortable. I also have to say like now I know that that coincided with your hand thing, but I honestly, when you were swinging at the sides of him was like, I kind of like the choice.

Like, I thought you made a choice to make... Yeah, that's what it was. No, but it's like to make Peyton look like a kid who didn't know what she was doing. Like, you're not, you know, you're not Linda Carter. You're not like Wonder Woman. You're not doing like a coordinated stunt scene.

Like, you're supposed to be a kid who's scared and, I don't know, I kind of liked that you didn't look like, you know, Avander Holyfield. Like, I don't, because I find that to be ridiculous, too. Whoa. They wrote this because Million Dollar Baby had just come out in 2004. It won the Oscar at the end of that year. And then, you know, we shot this like six months later.

So, you know, it was just thinking of you your, well, you had the boxing shit to your house like a couple episodes ago. I know. Didn't someone else have some boxing shit in their house? It's like they, we tried the box and. boxing out on a number of us. And I don't know. Also, that ring was really springy.

And so when I would take steps forward, I'm, like, bouncing. And the camera. And I couldn't stop bouncing. And so it just looks like Peyton's hopping the whole time. And I might be the only person that's really zeroed in on this because I hated it so much. But all I saw in that scene was bouncing and arms flapping and, like, having to cry. Oh, Peyton. I liked it. I agree with Sophie. I thought it was a choice, the sort of like flaily element of it.

Well, if you two say so, it shall be done. I think it's funny, though, that everybody on our show at some point or another was boxing, except for me, and I box. And I was always like, I want to go. No, you were being punished, sucking face with your part-time model. Okay, ew. Are we, I don't know that we need to spend much time on it with the teacher, but why? Why? Why? Why did they do this? I don't know. I really...

I haven't stopped thinking about the tweet that we got about this. You know, it hasn't stopped kind of pinging around in my brain that fans have picked up on what felt like some really inappropriate messaging, like that this felt targeted. And, and, and that men, you showed us last, yeah, last week, I guess it was, you know, that men are like, whoa, that, like, FYI, that felt weird to us. And, you know, again, we're repeating that Brooke is 18. Again, she goes in and says, hi, Brooke Davis, 18 high school student. You know, the, this notion that might be inappropriate, but it's not illegal. Yeah. Ew. That, that a bunch of, that a bunch of, men in their mid-40s were trying to suggest that it was okay. Yeah. On some level. It's okay, at least on a basic legal level. It's okay. You know, no one can ever know, but you can still do it. It just, it makes my stomach turn. It makes me really feel sick because what they're doing is they're trying to normalize and romanticize a clear abuse of power. Well, also, she's, okay, technically not a child, but if you're

If this man is willing to sleep with a student, you think that the fact that she's 18 really matters to this guy, who clearly has just excellent moral standards? No. Doesn't matter. You know. The whole thing is just not, it's just not right. Well, the scheming, too, where he's like, if we just wait three months, it's like, he has thought this out.

Like, how do I get away with this? Yeah. Yeah. So the next time she's 16. then the next time she's 15 and then how long does it you know what i mean like how far does that line go so disgusting and again you know the fact that that this repeat of brook's age is being peppered in so often the fact that they made rachel say well and you know normally it's 18 is the age of consent but in this state it's 17 like so essentially what you're saying is a bunch of other grown men

have made a version of pedophilia okay in this one state in the South, and we're going to pretend that's all right? Like, I cannot imagine you guys at 26 years old being like, you know who I want to kiss, that 18-year-old, that 17-year-old over there? Like, because, I mean, what are we when we're shooting this season? We're 25? Like, oh, my God. I don't even know that we were 25 yet.

I think we were still, like, 24. If this is 2006. I mean, I don't know anything about those laws. I don't know if any of them were put into place when teenagers were getting married. Like 16 year olds were marrying each other and being forced to get out of the house and go get jobs. And because the economy was different and the social structures were different. So it's possible that that came from that. But it's still gross because of the implications that how it affects older people who do still. It's a loophole. And that's what it is. It's only ever used as a loophole. And it's used as a loophole. And it's used as a loophole. And it's used as. a loophole predominantly to prey on young women and and just the fact that we were that we were being asked forced to portray some sort of normalization of this even when brook is being vulnerable with him and saying like well what is this is this just sex to you and and and she says you know all we ever do is sneak around i mean not that sneaking around is so bad it's like she's been cultured to make jokes for her own feelings. And I still do that.

It just all made me feel really. It could have gone a different way, you guys. Like, legitimately, legally. Brooke is 18. He's 23 years old. Those are the rules, right? And he finds out that she is his student. He could have said, hey, I really like you a lot.

and there's only three months left. And so I'm going to be your friend and, like, get to know you for three months. I'm your teacher. And so we're not going to cross those boundaries. But I like your brain, and I'm seeing you use it in the classroom and, like, cool. And when you are 18, like, or when you are graduated, like, neat. It could have gone a different way where you saw him being responsible. But now what we have back to back are two men being reeled in by the feminine wild.

of high school girls. These sirens. Between Rachel and Brooke. You know, Cooper was a good man. Cooper was what I was just going to say, yes. He was a good man, but that Rachel got her hooks in him. And I'm sure this, you know, Nick guy is a good man. It's just, the sex is irresistible.

What's a man? Same thing happened to, to, what's his name, Jake with Nikki. Nikki. Just getting lured in. They just can't help themselves. Yeah, I don't like it. Like, Brooke having a secret non-sexual relationship with a teacher would have been salacious and also more interesting. Like, if they're literally meeting in the coffee shop to talk about books or her student government stuff and he becomes a mentor as opposed to a sexual partner.

But the sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, sex, like that drumbeat is so boring. It's so boring. And it's deeply uncomfortable because, again, on their first date. when she says, oh, this is where I used to be a cheerleader, and he says you still have the uniform. Like, it's, it's all. Even from the first date, it's all he was talking about. Yeah, it's just, it's, it's, it's a fetishization of these high school girls, of these cheerleaders.

And when I think back to our boss literally screaming at us that none of the high school cheerleaders ever wanted to fuck him. Well, yeah, duh. It just feels, it makes it feel personal and creepy. It's very, I don't know, I feel like we were all being kind of puppeted in a way that felt, it didn't feel like creative story. It really felt like personal wish fulfillment. Oh, yeah. And it just like, it makes my skin crawl. We were so young, we didn't have enough experience to know how to name it and see exactly what was going on.

It was like, we're so uncomfortable. I'm so uncomfortable, but I don't know what to do. You guys, even our last conversation, you know, on the last episode that aired, when we were talking about how we got bullied over the Maxim cover, like, you guys, that's headline news. I don't know if you've been on the internet this week, but like, it is, it is major news. People are like, oh my God, there are articles written about it. Yeah, that surprised me. Somebody just sent me that from Variety this morning.

I, first time I saw it, I don't know if it's been out for a while, but I was like, whoa. No, you guys, I genuinely was like, wait, what? This is news? That's what I thought to. Like, I thought I've been yelling about this for years, guys. Well, A, we've been yelling about it for years, but B, we were treated like this was normal. We were spoken to like this was normal. We were told that this was just business dealings.

So the fact that, like, major publications are going. look what happened to these girls and we're like oh it really was crazy yeah like for us it was just another day yeah all these people are like how dare oh my god unbelievable that this was allowed to go on on their set and we're like hello this was our every day like it's just so it's it's it's surprising even now um to realize how out of the norm that is and so it i think it just all factors into when we watch things like this on screen you go oh come on it feels personal joy you're getting put into the Karen um what is the what is what the word for like a man would be called a eunuch but like you're getting put into this this like sexless box well she's a madonna yeah it's the

madonna yeah it's the madonna yeah and rachel and broke her whores right and haley is the madonna yeah and you you guys had beautiful scenes this episode. And it was weird to get a backstory from Karen that was no backstory. Like, did you guys clock that when she was like, you know, look at all the things that you have, Haley. I was pregnant and I didn't have a family and I had no friends. And that's all we know about Karen. Yeah. No real information. It's so weird. She's so unvaliable that we don't take into any of it. It is so, so weird.

I think they just really didn't know. I mean, that was it. If you're not useful for sex, then I don't know what to do with you. I suppose we'll make you pregnant. If we make you pregnant, that's going to buy us nine whole months. That's right. So we'll make you pregnant, but then you're going to have a baby, and now you're definitely sexless.

Yeah. So I really don't. know what to do with you. So let's make it. So if you notice, Hayley's whole storylines all from like from a little bit before this all start to become about reactionary stuff. She's not actually active and making choices and doing things and interfering in other people's storylines or there's no action. She's just reacting for the next like basically the next nine seasons or six seasons. Ugh. Yeah. It's really it's really surreal. It's real weird. Sorry, Sophia, you were going to say something.

Well, I was just going to say, it's so interesting that they're like, well, the minute she's pregnant, she's got to be buttoned up and prude. And then once she's a mom, she's prude. And I'm like, do y'all forget how women get pregnant? Like, clearly she's not a sexless person. When you're pregnant, your hormones are bananas. And you don't care that you're pregnant. Like, if anything, Haley should have been, like, all over Nathan. Like, suck.

You just won that game. You just won three games in a row. Less jam. Oh, my God. Yes. Oh, but you know what? I will say, because I don't just want to be down on the grossness of the writer's room. I want to give, like, a very sweet shout out to how nice it is to see the Rivercorp boys.

Yay. Them coming into the gym. And that scene where, you know, Lucas tells skills to keep his starter jersey. And then you see Lucas, Nathan, and Skills just dominating these games together. And the montages of the playoffs are so good. And even though I hate Brooke and her teacher hooking up at school, it's literally disgusting. The way they edit everyone's stories so that you see what everyone's doing during these montages, whether it's bad behavior, you know, good behavior, you're, you know, you're dealing with your stuff.

it's I don't know like that is some of the best of what our episodes were yeah so even though there's a lot I think that's problematic here the the joy of the game and whitey becoming such a good advocate like yeah telling Dan to back the fuck off of Nathan and getting Lucas back in the game for 15 minutes a game like there is some really glad we had whitey here oh there's just some beautiful stuff that I want to cling to you because that's what brings me joy. Those are the meaningful moments. It's not all the crazy action. It's the moments where you just sit on Barry's face watching the boys play and being proud of the work that he's put in and seeing the fruits of his labor. Those are the kinds of things that in real life,

those are the moments that feed our soul. And when you watch it from characters who you love, it feeds your soul. Those are the things that feel really important to me. I loved that as well. Whitey had that really good quote, because he was talking about, you know, do you know how much it took for your mother to come in here

and ask for you to play those 15 minutes? He said, you get 15 minutes of time, a game to make her proud and a lifetime to make them both proud, referring to Keith, because he's now wearing Keith's jersey. Yeah. And see, that's it. Like, that's the thing that we write down. We don't write down the lone shark shit, you know?

That's the goofy stuff that some dude in a room thought was cool. The stuff that our fan base thought was cool were those moments of like, hey, what I do matters and how I connect with people matters. Yeah. Sweetness matters. And Barry, that idea that, you know, you've got these minutes in the game and a lifetime,

it's this sweet old man essentially saying it only gets bigger and better from here. Yeah. Put high school in perspective. These are moments. You have a whole lifetime. grow into the man you want to be, make your people proud for the next, you know, 60 years. And that, that's such sage advice, especially when you're in that bubble and you feel like it's your whole world to remember that there is a universe out there waiting for you is such a, that's just such a gift that only someone with perspective can give to you at that age.

Agreed. How do you feel about the mouth and Gigi of it all? Oh, I love seeing Kelsey. She's so good. I mean, we just watched her on Yellowstone like... Me too. Last night I was watching her. Oh, she's killing me this season.

She is such a good dramatic actress. And it's crazy to be reminded of like all this comedy she was doing as a baby. Yeah. Yeah. She's so great. And they're so sweet together and it's fun to watch them. It's really fun to watch them. Well, and I like that mouth clocked the whole, oh, I've been friend zoned, like, multiple times.

Am I really going to friend zone this, you know, they try to make her a nerdy girl, but she's like a super hot girl in glasses. She's so stunning. Yeah, it's like the Rachel Lee Cook effect. You're like, okay, guys, nice try to see that she's gorgeous. Clark Kent. She tricked us. All right. What else did we miss?

That's it. No. Oh, the government letting pedestrians wander through the training, the military. I put that down, too. I had to put that so funny. That was clearly no one in our writer's room had ever been pregnant or dealt with a pregnancy before because they have no idea what hormones are. They have never been on a military base or, like, not on a military base, like seated up front, you know.

They were just making shit up at this point. That was so funny. That was so funny. Sophia and I were cracking up the idea that a pedestrian could just walk up to a marine base and be like, I'm just looking for a Derek. Oh yeah, he's over there. No prob. And then the guard gate just goes up.

Let me hit you a ride in my Humvee into training. Right on in. I'm going to give you a ride here. We were at war. We were at war when this episode aired. Oh, that's right. I mean, we were literally training to send these boys. to war. It was serious. And so yeah, that idea that like... And then they're giving Billy Idol a ride

onto their base. Right, right. And then you come later. Exactly. It's so crazy. Just a little walk and talk with the Marines in the background. It is so crazy. What, Joy and High Hill, we were dying laughing before you hopped on because, you know, it cuts to earnest leading everyone through a run and then it just turns. And there's some guy and Chad in the Hummer driving through the training exercises and we were so aghast that that would never happen I didn't even say

but I wrote down I go and they tore up the grass I was like oh my God like the car literally like left tire tracks in the grass and his friend it's cool

no we're going to descend on a helicopter next time don't worry it's true hill anything that's what I want to see It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television. television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a massacist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. It's almost a dirty word, one that connotes conspiracy theory. Will we ever get the truth about the Benghazi massacre? Bad faith political warfare. And, frankly, bullshit. We kill the ambassador just to cover something up.

You put two and two together. Was it an overblown distraction or a sinister conspiracy? Benghazi is a rosetta stone for everything that's been going on for the last 20 years. I'm Leon Nefok from Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries. This is Fiasco, Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Yeah, that's right. Lock her up. Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts.

or wherever you get your podcasts. Guys, I don't know. There were some real ridiculous things. I'm going to go out on the fact that the Rivercourt boys were the sweetest. And let's end on a high note and take a fan question. Yes, please. This one, okay, I'm going to ask you guys. Okay, okay.

It's from Carrie. She says, what do you think the origin story of Peyton and Brooks friendship is? The show never actually told us how they became friends. Whoa. How is, what did happen? Well, there's mention of us having been friends since we were little. Yeah, I mean, I thought. I thought Peyton's mom died when she was like eight or nine.

And so I know that we were friends before that. Before that. Yeah, because Peyton talks about, you tell that story. I don't remember if it's this season or last season about how when your mom died, I just never left. When we talk about the winter and like the igloo. When I got shot, I'm telling an igloo story. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, I mean, they've been friends since elementary school, at least. Yeah, I mean, eight or nine is like third, fourth grade. So if they were already best friends before that, these are preschool buddies. These are just like, and my kid has those. Like, Gus is friends with the same kids that he's been friends with since he was three. And every once in a while, like, you pick up a new. person, but I can totally see them as like the two alpha chicks in the preschool classroom that are, because personalities are strong at that age.

I just dropped George off. That's why I was late, because I dropped George off at preschool. And I'm just like, please just be like a sweetheart. Be loving and inclusive. Yeah. But yeah, I think preschool. Is Maria still friends with kids that she went to preschool with? Yes.

Uh, wait, no, kindergarten. Kindergarten, yeah. But same difference. Yeah, she has one, particularly one really good friend who she still went to kindergarten with. Yeah. So sweet. Yeah, I, I totally buy these two, you know, being friends from preschool. And it's actually really interesting to think at that moment, like Victoria and Peyton's mom would have known each other.

Oh, wild. That's right. That's pretty cool. We never find out anything about Peyton's mom. She makes one comment to Ellie. Like, I got my art from my mom. But I just imagine these two little girls, like, and Peyton letting Brooke do whatever she wants to her.

Like, I'm going to take these markers and put makeup on you. And Peyton's like, okay. Sure. Do you know what I mean? That's the energy that I see in preschool, preschool Payton, Brooke. Oh, yes. I'm like, hey, I'm going to cut bangs. Okay.

Whatever you want. Yep. I also like the idea that little baby artist Peyton was probably giving us both like temporary tattoos with our Pentel marker sets. Listen, I have a picture of Gus at that age where he has drawn what he thinks look like robot parts on his chest. It doesn't look like robot parts. It looks totally inappropriate. But at that age, you're giving yourself tattoos and you're like, I look so cool. Um, yeah, yeah, you give me the makeup. I'll give you the tattoos.

Yeah, I need those photos. Those are fun. Oh, let's spin a wheel. Do it. Most likely to, this is good. This is good. Who's most likely to get rid of their smartphone and go back to a flip phone slash black. Girl, that blackberry was the shit.

I loved that blackberry. It was, yeah, you had to pry that out of my cold dead hands. I was never going to give that thing up. I still have mine. What? You guys, I have a box. Hold. Like, I have it, but is yours operable?

Give me one second. I gave it to Gus to use as a prop in movies that he makes. I'm just going to say that I had the newest model of the iPhone and as soon as the smallest version that you could get, like the fits in the palm of your hand came out. I went back to it. It's like the smallest, dumbest version. But I love it because it's not invading my life in the same way as that giant fucking, it was like a computer and it's a giant computer screen in your hand every day. You can't sit down.

You can't fit it any of your purses. Not into it. It breaks. Are you going to do the Shishunk right now? I have literally been thinking about going back. So first I found my old Blackberry. And then I found not one. but two

you got the Nokia the razor oh these are the razors these are the Motorola razors and I I want this to be my cell phone again

yes so bad yeah the idea that no one can just blow up your phone with text messages what a relief that would be and when you were on the phone you'd be like

okay love you bye yeah the feeling of that I want it yeah I have a box of old text piece of mind that, like, if you're going to check your Instagram or your Twitter, you have to get on your

computer and, like, this is the time that I'm choosing to do this instead of just having it in your pocket. Yeah. The idea that I could have a phone that flips open and close and the only text I can send are like smiley faces and I have to literally type out the numbers. Like, T9. Like, give me, give me, give me, send me voice texts all day long, send, leave me voice messages. I do not want to read. If I could get the sidekick again, the T-9, the T-Mobile sidekick. That was my favorite device of all time. Oh, yeah.

Flipped up on the side. Yeah. I loved that. Hillary, you and I, I have, like, visceral core memories of being in the makeup trailer at, like, 5 a.m. And both of us being like, hey, hey, click. And we would just be typing on our little sidekicks. Yeah.

That thing ruled. It was like having a typewriter in your fist. Yeah. I loved it. All right. Well, then I think the answer to that wheel is all of us because... God, how do we get that endorsement deal? Like, do we come out with a drama queen's flip phone?

Yeah, we should. Truly, what I want is for this to be my cell phone. And then I want, like, I want the device to essentially split where I only talk on the phone on this. But if I want to do, like, texts, emails, whatever, on an iPhone that, like, I need longer form for, I can. I don't know how to do that. Maybe somebody who's listening knows how to. How to do a little call forwarding or something. Yeah.

You did an iPad. Just do it all on a fucking iPad. Right? So it's like a big thing that like Joy to Joy's point. You're forced. Yes. To get in there. I like that.

I'm down. Okay. Flip phone city, man. It's happening in 2023. Here we come. Here we go, y'all. All right. Next episode, season four, episode seven, all these things that I've done.

Uh-oh. That sounds dark. Yeah. Danger. I'm excited. See you next week. Bye. Bye.

Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Dramatic for the right team.

Drama queens, drama queens. It may girl, rough girl, fashion but you're tough girl, you could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges.

Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. What I told people, I was making a podcast about Benghazi. Nine times out of ten, they called me a masochist, rolled their eyes, or just asked, why? Benghazi, the truth became a web of lies. From Prologue Projects and Pushkin Industries, this is Fiasco. Benghazi. What difference at this point does it make? Listen to Fiasco, Benghazi, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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