Drama Queens - Magic Mike w/Michael Trucco aka Uncle Cooper • EP219

Episode Date: April 25, 2022

Introducing Michael Trucco aka Uncle Cooper! Hilarie, Sophia and Joy agree that the highlight of this episode is Michael Trucco and they’re excited to share his magic with you! It’s only Michael’s first episode but everyone bonded immediately. Join us as they relive his time in Tree Hill and laugh over memories of the race car scene and what it was like playing Nathan’s uncle. Bonus! Michael Trucco shares his secret to a long, healthy marriage.See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride in our comic girl. Drama, girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Welcome, welcome to Drama Queen's. This is looking back on One Tree Hill episode 19. I'm wide awake. It's morning. Air date May 3, 2005. Synopsis, Deb's younger brother, Cooper, is in town and stirring up trouble at the Speedway with Nathan and Lucas. Dan tells the college where Andy teaches of his relationship with Karen and he's forced to choose. And then Mouth and Erica Marsh start a hot new relationship. Guys, for anyone who had to watch this episode,

back in preparation for this episode of Drama Queens, we sincerely apologize. We're very sad. Bad, the episode was. My God. I need ice cream to reward myself for sitting through

that episode. The only redeeming thing was meeting, well, no, there's a couple redeeming things. There's a few good moments. Yeah. Skylar Fiske and Uncle Cooper, God, they're lovely. Mouth and Erica Marsh are so flipping cute. Yeah. Mouth in the backseat of Brooks car,

pretend to be broke super cute. Are you pretend to be drunk? But like those slow motion montages of cars doing donuts and girls dancing to music that clearly wasn't what was playing when we filmed it. It's so painful. It's so random and painful. Can we just say it? Can we say, okay, when you guys hear as bitch about the things going on behind the scenes

on our show, I think it is super apparent that the wheels are falling off at the end of season two. That is when the people at the top of the pyramid lost their fucking minds. Well, the last episode was pretty bad, too, except for a couple of things. Joy, you missed our bitch fest. I missed it. I know. I watched it, though.

I was kind of like, I'm going to buy out of this one. You're a good sport. No, I had to. I was in the airport. But, yeah, I'm glad that I didn't have to. You know, people don't need to hear me complain either. But they're going to get to you today, because let me tell you, I think that this episode was so lazy. The writing was so lazy.

There are so many reasons. You've got a whole, look, I mean, I don't know who's to blame, but all I can say is, I do. I do. We all do. You got a whole writer's room, but also, you know, when he was writing it, this seemed like something that he probably wanted to take the wheel. on and and run with, but it really went off the rails. I mean, there are so many reasons you could come up with to put a cast in that setting. It's, the random settings are okay.

You can kind of always figure out a reason to put people wherever you need them to be. If we had introed Uncle Cooper calling Nathan from the road from a NASCAR race in episode 18 of season 2. Yeah. And he checked in with him. He'd said, hey, kid, I've been there. I'm getting divorced. Nate had been like, screw you, I'm not getting a divorce. Whatever.

Depressed, fine. He comes to town to visit. Like, there's a million ways to at least not have everyone watching the episode going, who is this person? Who is that girl? Who is that guy? Why are we here? Who's the race car?

What's the thing? Like, it doesn't make any sense. And then there's just these long driving montages, which, as we talked about last week, we're clearly not on a soundstage with a guy shaking the car. They weren't outside. They looked terrible. None of this makes any sense.

And the long shots, it was, they were as long as the coyote, they were longer than the coyote ugly sequence in the bar from the last episode. It was just non-stop. I didn't understand at all why we were watching this. And I felt bad for anyone at home

who had to sit through that, hoping that a storyline was going to come out of it. Joy, Sophia and I ended the last episode being like, normally when we've got a great big huge stinker we follow it up with something that's actually like heartwarming and lovely and so we have high hopes for this week oh no we really did specifically because we like a lot of the people that were introduced this week yes yes there are people that are dear to us um and so maybe part of the reason we're so offended is because we feel like they

deserved better we feel like they deserved like a little bit of breath and character development and not just like, you know, asphalt. So much asphalt. So much asphalt. So you deserved better. Here's what this episode felt like to me. I felt like the writer was trying to pitch their own show of race car driving to other networks. Like they had come up with a show for, you know, NASCAR.

Thank you. NASCAR. And it was just like, well, look, I can show everybody how good it would be. And so then I'll get another TV series. is like spinning off of this moment. Yeah. That's what it felt like to me. Like it was a total...

And you can tell that when you watch shows that do actual spinoffs and they turn the episode into a pilot for the spinoff. And everybody's always watching it like, what is this? I think even Yellowstone did it introducing like these moments of 1883,

which, you know, is a great show. But it's always weird. It's just always weird when you're used to seeing one thing and then they're introducing a completely new type of show. Well, yeah, because you can see how they could have done a spin-off with Truco and Skyler Fisk and the guy that was playing Ray Green, you know, like they had a formula about brothers who were at odds, like a family drama set in the world of sports was our show. And NASCAR was like going through a renaissance back in 2005 where they were making it like hot and sexy for young people and not just like old people anymore. And, yeah, they were really trying to make it a thing.

We had NASCAR drivers on TRL at this time because there was one really young one who was very charming. I can't remember his name, but boy, was he a doll. And I remember being like, oh, NASCAR is making a concerted effort to, like, attract new eyeballs. And because we're in North Carolina and we were a couple hours away from Charlotte, the whole dang show took a field trip without us girls. We didn't get to go. No. No, forget you guys. We don't want to go on your dumb trip anyway.

Was Skyler in more than just this episode? I don't know. I mean, she definitely came to Wilmington, like, our studio, because she had to do fittings and they did all the car process stuff where they were, like, pretending to drive in the studio. Yeah, that was in Wilmington. So she was in both places and she's cool. She's great.

She's so great. But it did feel to me like, again, and I said this when we were watching it, it felt like she was there to test out if they could release me from my contract and bring in this other sort of girl next door, tomboy, singer type. Because she totally filled that Haley role in the episode. I mean, even having her sing your song, I was like, wow. I know. It was weird.

I mean, I understand why they did it, but it was definitely like. It was weird. But she's great and super charming and effervescent and enjoyable to watch. And I hope she does come back for more episodes. I just don't remember if she does. We would have been lucky to have had her. Yeah. She's a good one. She's fabulous. I remember just being such a fan of her from movies. She did a movie back in the day with Colin Hanks that I loved. And I just remember when she came on the show being so excited. And then I found out she was good friends with a pal of mine from a different movie. So we got stay in touch for a bit. And she is just like a class act and a truth teller and such a talented actor. And yeah, between Skylar Fisk and Danielle Alonso, I really wish we'd gotten to keep all the girls from season two. They were fun. Well, that's it.

Yeah, chicks are treated pretty disposably on our show. And you heard us talk about it last week about kind of the vilifying of our female characters or just making things their fault or them being sloppy in ways, I get it, there's got to be drama, there's got to be conflict, but the boys are all just so... Getting hurt and so wounded because of their big hearts, and the girls are evil and sick. Get holding.

What is this? It's like someone had a feeling about women. Oh, that's crazy. Wait, okay, listen, you might be right, but let me let's think about this from the other perspective from when it was all the boys that were in all the drama and that was all the first season right wasn't it mostly the boys that were creating all the drama like getting into all kinds of trouble yeah but they still got played like these heart throbs and these boys you wanted and every girl just wanted to sleep with them you know what I mean yeah like it was a sexy struggle but it was like it was like the hot bad boy and the girls are played like these villainous women who are ruining everything with their tics and their jeans. And it's just like, God, vaginas are ruining the world.

They're ruining everything. God, you and your evil titties. That is everything you've ever said. Oh, my God. Is that what we should call our production company ladies, evil titties? Oh, my God. This has been an evil titty production.

Tuesdays on the CW. This message has been very. Ratchie you by evil titty. But that's like the messaging, man. It's just so unlikable. It's so unlikable. Barbara passed out in the freaking grass with her evil titties hanging out of her shirt. And Dan turns on the sprinklers.

Like it's so, God, they took it so far. They did. They really did. It gets just turned up to 11. And maybe that's because we're in season two, and our showrunner had never run anything before. And so what you'll find is that seasoned showrunners understand nuance and how to, like, build things in a way that's natural. And trusting their actors, too, trusting that the actors know how to build them. Collaborating, could you imagine?

Mm, no, no. I remembered the word bottle episodes, like floating around at this time because there was this concerned that people weren't watching our show week to week. And so they wanted the episodes to stand alone in a way where you could just watch one. Yeah, they wanted it to be like procedural. This feels that way. Yeah. It's just, it's on an island. It's so strange. I'm, yeah, I'm really glad that we got Michael Truco out of it. Yes. Because he saved that episode in the end with his white shirt, just standing there. dirty in a white t-shirt.

He saved the episode. It was all worth it just for that shot. God damn it, he's so handsome. He's so likable in an incredibly unlikable episode. So that just shows you how talented he is. Yes. And the fact that he was able to ground all of that to make it feel real, that you bought him as a NASCAR driver immediately,

that you bought him as the fun uncle, that even when he was talking about, you know, he was divorced from the supermodel. It wasn't gross. It was charming and funny and like, yeah. It could have been gross. It could have been so gross. Any other actor would have made it gross.

Totally. And he was just like, I've had this wild life. Can you believe it? But, I mean, I'm a mess. What do you want from me? Like, he was so, um, he underplayed it all. Easy, man. And he was so freaking cute.

He's cool. Yeah. Um, we also had a really, nice performance from Catherine Bayliss again, who always shows up to work, man. She just understands the assignment and really comes through every time. It's always understated. It's always just exactly what's needed. And I loved it. I thought it was weird that the writers had her coming onto mouth at the end of a night when just a few hours later she had been assaulted at a party that felt like the timing was off there. But I did still love seeing her and mouth

starting to build something together and I thought that was super sweet me too it was interesting too you know I love that you bring that up that earlier in the night she went through something i like i like that she said i was just scared and disappointed because how disappointing it feels to be reminded that to some people in the world you are something to get rather than a person who is is something that I think so many of us are unfortunately familiarized with. And I thought the way that Catherine played it, it felt like something I've seen friends say. It felt like something I know I've said.

And I loved it. And so, yeah, it especially made it a bummer that there wasn't someone in the room who got to say, hey, guess what? after girls get assaulted at parties, they don't kiss other boys like four hours later. Like brand new boys they've never hung out with before. They need to talk and have support and have some space to process. And I will say that if there was any two actors who could make that make sense, it would be Catherine and Lee Norris. Because Lee Norris is such a good guy.

and you see who he is come out in mouth where he says, well, let's go get some food. And, you know, he wants to create a safe container. Yeah. And what I liked about the way Catherine played it was, you could see her as Erica, see a good guy, be reminded that there are good guys out there and lean into a good guy. So I think the storyline is flawed,

but I think those two did so far above and beyond, like, the best they could with the material. Good actors working with so little. So talented. But that's what you always say, Hillary, right? Oh, my fucking God. You all can keep your Emmys and your Oscars because you had good scripts. And we had to work with shit some of the time. And we made it work.

And we made you cry anyway. God damn it. I don't watch your dumb awards. It's true, though. And I, I don't know. It's so hard because a lot of our guest actors didn't have the same footing that we had to push back on stuff. So they really did have to just do what was on the paper, you know? But you can see in this later part of the season how we are being, I don't want to say punished, but there's no screen time.

Do you know what I mean? We did get punished. It was like, okay, you have complaints? Watch this. There's less for you. Watch this for you. And we're going to make you dance around and not talk. So cringy.

Like my worst nightmare is having to dance on camera. I hate it so much. Also, here's a production lesson because we know that our drama queen's friends like these behind-the-scenes things. So for everyone at home, when you do a scene like we did, you don't have any music. Nothing. They say, get up, hit play on the stereo, but there's no music. So we're all looking at each other, kind of getting in a groove going like, what are we supposed to be doing? Bouncing around, but there's no music to dance to.

So you always look like an idiot because you're not dancing to anything. And then when you have whomever pulling the puppet strings doing the edit, who doesn't even try to find a sink, which means the song that gets synced to the scene. They don't even try to find a sink that matches the rhythm you've found. Like, we were clearly not dancing to Citizen Cope, so we look like a bunch of drunk giraffes just blowing around, you know? It's so embarrassing.

It is the worst. And then we had some real music. And then we had to go into ADR. which is additional dialogue recording. And we would have to put in laughter. Right. In that I remember specifically. To make it seem charming.

Like, like, ah! Like, I want to die when I'm so awkward. It's so awkward. No, well, Haley got to be a ghost in this episode. Literally, the beginning of the episode, Haley is there, and we got so pumped. We were like, oh, my God, she's back. Oh, my gosh, she.

No. that was a tease not back no back they were still trying to kick me out haley was a ghost and apparently deb was a poisoned woman what is that does taking painkillers make your blood unusable is that true

no i googled it yeah what did you find here's what it says this is according to the interweb donors on medication are allowed to donate blood for blood products containing less than 50 milliliters of plasma of a single donor

we also we have a real problem with doctors in Tree Hill who don't understand HIPAA and who like have no understanding of privacy. The fact that all the doctors that we complained about with the HCR test, what is the heart test or whatever, HCM, and then that he would just walk up to Deb in front of another person and assume how long have you been abusing prescription drugs. Like, doesn't know anything about her history. What if she has a hernia? He doesn't know anything about her. Dude. Your blood is unusable. Again, you damaged evil. I'm not seeing anything about painkillers on here.

I'm seeing, like, acutane and psoriasis medication. No, this is nonsense. This was just, like, unresearched, lazy writing. Well, maybe because a painkiller, for somebody who's already an anesthesia, would, like, interact badly in that moment. I don't think that's true. I don't know. I don't know. I really like you for trying, Joy.

Yeah, no. She's a good sport. I really appreciate you trying. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a hundred of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. While they tried to vilify all of us, they gave us Michael Truco. We've said it once, but we're going to say it many more times, everyone.

He was the gift that kept on giving. And we're very lucky that we got him in season two. And we're lucky. We have him here for you today. This we do. Bring that man in this room. Do you think he's wearing a white t-shirt? God, I hope so.

What a perfect human. I would be thrilled. Ladies and gentlemen, Michael Truco! Yay! Oh my God, you're so handsome. Yeah, how we're not aged. It's crazy. That's what we're doing is we've been gushing about how handsome you are.

Oh, I'm talented. So I watched the episode. Oh, we're sorry. It was a terrible episode. It kind of was, huh? It was so bad. And there were so many good ones. Did I say it really is a sucker punch that this one is so bad.

You sure it was amazing? to deliver monologues worth of exposition and also just like crazy like advice from someone who were just meeting who the audience is just supposed to like trust right away and you trust you were so cool to make us care about you immediately we literally we literally we just spent the whole opening of the podcast talking about how unbelievable it is that you instantly were so likable so charming so honest, so believable inside of the container of an episode that is a trash bag. It's like, how did you do it? Pure ignorance and bliss. You know, it's weird. You got to remember when you come

into a world like that that's already been established, well established. You guys were already through season one. You were just about at the end of season two, I think. Yeah. So it was episode 19. You know, I don't know any of the dynamics going on. I knew absolutely nothing. I knew that Charming. I love car racing. And when they said, you're going to play a race car driver. I was like, sign me up. And we got to go to Charlotte Motor Speedway, and there was Jeff Burton.

I was like, holy shit, this is really cool. But in terms of, yeah, you're right. Like, I have this long scene with Nathan, right, where I'm telling my nephew about love. And like, you're right. We've never met me before. We have no idea who I am, where I came from. And suddenly I'm this sage of relationship advice. Right.

Yeah. With your supermodel. Exactly. We wish there'd been like an Uncle Cooper phone call in the previous episode to establish something about you guys. Intro of some kind. Even if Nathan had called you for advice, it was so random, but somehow it just worked. You know, a huge part of it too was James' reaction because Hillary, did you say that he's making James Giggle? Oh, my God. James was like blushing and like giggling when you're giving him shit.

Yeah. He was like a real brotherly kind of relationship that we hadn't seen from him before. So that was really fun. It was an odd opening to be standing over the beer looking at a weird wall with paint and a clown. And they're like, you better than you, you little bitch. And I was like, who wrote that? We all repeated it right after you said it. I mean.

This line. Jesus. One of the better lines in the episode, frankly. Really? Well, did you and James have to read together? Like, what was the process for you joining on? No, so it's so funny, yeah. I was, I want to say, who was that casting director's name? Deborah, forgetting her name.

Anyway, it was, Mark Swan was in the room on one of them because it was one of those things where you go in and then they narrow it down and then you go back. And it was just a small room on the lot at WB in one of those bad, you know, 1970 trailers. The trailers. Oh my God. Yeah.

And the bad lighting and the whole night. But yeah, it's just, it's something clicked. And suddenly it was you're on a plane to North Carolina. And you're going to go out, you know, to Wilmington and do this. And I think it was, it was only meant to be one or two episodes. And then it, I don't know how many it was. Three, four, six. You did.

You did more than that because, yeah, you were in the wedding season three. You and the car going off the bridge. You and DeNeil's whole thing? Yeah, I don't know what. I just, I think it was just based on those guys saying, you know, this is our guy. And then when I met James and Chad, you know, we had a lot of time to hang out in Charlotte at the racetrack. Yeah. And we just, you know, we just got on, like straight away.

You guys got to remember, too. It's super weird because I feel like, you know, here we are. And I love this, this full circle. We come back. peers. But at the time, I felt like such an old guy. What? How old were you? Because we don't know. I was probably 36. I think you were in your 30s. Yes, you were not. You were sure. Because we, yeah, we were all surprised because you look so young. I mean, you still look so young. Like, wow. But yeah, I think I was 35 or 36 and you guys were all early 20s.

So I automatically. We thought you were like 30 and still grown up. But yeah, he's an adult. I know. I was feeling super old and super out of place. And I just, I got a, I got this instant vibe from James. I just, what a, what a great soul. What a great human being. And it was true that day. And it's true to this day. I saw him only a few weeks ago. We went on a hike together. You know, we live close by each other. Yeah. We, you know, we need to stay in touch more. And we kind of make a concerted effort. Whenever I text them, it's, you know, we get these great text threads going where, you know, it's really enthusiastic. And there's just something about him that really, resonates with me. And I picked up on that first day. And I was like, that's just luck. That's just kismet, right? You know, like, you get thrown into a part and he's supposed to me my flesh and blood. And we had this rapport. So maybe that's why those scenes worked while we're walking down a racetrack at 1130 at night, you know, on a 15-page oneer. Yeah. Talking about my ex-supermodel wife. Oh, my God. But it did. It worked. And you felt this connection. And you could see how

this character, Nathan, who was a bit of a rudderless ship at the moment, felt grounded with Coop. And the natural chemistry between the two of you, it did. I think it gave like a footing to this very bizarre storyline. Yeah. You know, when he's in that moment of emergency, you know, taking the car past its limits and you're telling him to come in. I really bought it. I believed your care and fear. And like the look on your face, it was so honest.

And yeah, we're just very impressed with what you did. Oh, come on. In the container of that really bizarre script. Stop. Michael, did you get recognized by fans after you were on the show for it? Because I know the show was kind of like becoming super popular right around that time.

I'll say this to this day of everything that I've done. that I've done so far career-wise, this is the single most recognizable world. Really? Really? You've done a Battlestar Galactica? Yeah, Battle Stars. Yeah, and Battlestar and yeah, even it's weird

because to this day, it's fun. You can always kind of tell the demographic too, who you know, like the young mom, right? The mom in her 30s whose daughter is like, you know, kind of preteen. So they both now like mom watched it back in the day And now daughters watched it. Yeah.

And it's always like in airports and stuff like that. But in the most random locations. But I don't notice as much as my wife does, for example, right? So we're walking, we're out someplace. She's like, those girls are looking at you. You know, they totally turned around. I was like, I didn't see it, actually. I wasn't paying attention.

And so we were, when this is a funny store, we were at this, her mom was in town from Switzerland and we all decided to go to dinner with her mom. We were at this really hip restaurant that was on Las Siena. I forget the name of it. But we're waiting for our kids. table and they said, you can have a seat at the bar. And we were kind of early because our mom likes to eat early. And we were sitting on the short side of the bar. This is a big L-shaped long as bar. And we're on the short side. And there was a group of about, I don't know, 10, 11, 12 girls

in their 20s, obviously having some sort of bachelor at party. And they were down the way a bit. And we were minding our own business. And Sandra, you know, we're talking. She squeezes my hand. She goes, they're looking over here. They're looking over here. And I was like, hey, just, you know, whatever. Just let it be. And she's like, oh, she goes, it's just everyone we go. And then this, they kind of looked over and then they would talk and then another girl would look over. And then this girl walks up and she's got a camera. Oh no. And she does that kind of, you know, she's walking up.

The teeter, chatter. And so, I hate to bother you, but. Exactly. I'm so sorry. I don't mean to bother you. And son goes, yes, yes, it's him. It's him. Okay.

And she's very sweet about it. But she's like, of course, it's him. And the girl goes, oh, okay. I could we just, will you take a picture of our friends and I for our bachelor's? Stop. They were just looking for a photographer. Oh, my God. That guy looks like he knows how to handle a camera.

I think one of the other people in the bar. So, and the girl's like, I'm so sorry to book you. And Saunders like, oh, my God, here we go. Do you want to be over here? And she went, I just want you guys to take a pet of my friends. I love that. So it's not universal, right? But it is the strangest thing.

It really is the strangest thing. How ingrained Uncle Cooper, where this character has become from something that I thought was just going to be, you know, in and out, be done with. And I've got to tell you, I'm proud of it. You know, I really am. I'm honored to be included with you guys. That really means a lot to me.

And it still blows my mind that people, that the character resonates with people. And I just, I thank you guys because I remember how sweet and how good you were to me when I got there. All of you. Oh, we just love you. We love you. We love you. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah.

Listen, Michael, you were a good, safe dude to hang out with because you were really fun and you didn't talk down to us. You know, you had been on a lot of stuff and you were super inclusive, but you also, you know, respected boundaries and you were a very safe person to be around. Absolutely. Yeah, well, of course. I mean, that's just in my nature, but yeah, you're right. And, you know, you have to be cognizant of course.

And that's why I think part of, like I said, I felt like I was this old guy and you guys were kids. But we would go out and, you know, there were nights when we'd all go out to dinner, we'd have some drinks. And I was like, is this weird? Should I, I should just, I got to beat it. I got to get out of there and just go, you know, I feel like I'm out of my element. But then I bonded with like Lee, you know, and James. And I was like, I really enjoyed my time here. And then, you know, I spent a good amount of time with Paul as well.

Yeah. Oh. Oh, yeah. Yeah. We went fishing. Oh. Tell me about that trip. After he knocked me, he pushed me down, you know, we had that moment in the hospital, in this episode, by the way.

Oh, yeah, that's right. You know, at the end, and he pushes me in the chest, and I kind of pushed back. Well, we did a take where he shoved me into a chair because there was a chair and I was like, oh, I see how this goes. So it was a complete and total, you know, there was this pissing match going on. And Paul came and kind of wanted to set the tone. And he pushed me, and I pushed him back. and they're like okay cut yeah that's a little too much guys we're just kind of had this moment

and then after that we were we were totally cool yeah that sounds like Paul classic toxicity or what that's you're just marking your territory where'd you hang out in Wilmington where are your hotspots I have no idea didn't one of you guys live over a steakhouse

well Paul did he lived over Deluxe. That's right. Yeah, that was Paul's place. Yeah. So there was that steakhouse that was, you know, I don't know it. You got to remember my first time in Wilmington, I think it was February or March. Now, Wilmington is a beautiful city.

Yeah. Really cold, though. Oh, boy, in February and March, it's grim. Yeah. Yeah. It's cold. Bleak. Bleak.

Exactly. It was gray and there was no flowers, no trees, no leaves, nothing, just like dead trees. And it was really quiet. I remember walking around and looking at that, that, that, that, battleship on the river. I was in that hotel and I was like, holy Lord, what am I doing? And I just, it felt like, you know, a tumbleweed would walk, would go by the street when I was walking down. I largely spent the first week or two a day I was up there by myself, just, you know, going to a bar and sit and pull up and watch a NASCAR race or, you know, have breakfast

in some cafe. And then eventually I got to know you guys and got to get a day of land. But I can't remember, God, it's been so long. I remember that steakhouse as being sort of, you know, the hangout yeah central meeting point and then i was just there well i saw you guys there yeah you did oh god we were there at 2020 right before covid right before covid how did we all escape that guys i mean maybe we didn't because i think we all got sick after that but yeah that was the last time i saw anybody before the pandemic broke out i saw you yes um that was a i mean it was a fun convention i want to say it was February of 2020 and and the world shut down on the 13th of March. Yeah, it was bananas. How were those couple of years for you? I mean, were you able to work at all or what did you and Sandra do? I did. I actually spent, it was kind of tough because I was in Vancouver for five months and I couldn't leave and son couldn't come up. Yeah. Because we were under, you know, it was non-essential, you know, so we were allowed to travel as to get to Vancouver. Once we were there, we couldn't leave. So I was making that show for Netflix called Midnight Mass. Yeah. And we shot that for, we shot that for, we

We started in February, right after I saw you guys, I went up to Vancouver, and then we got shut down on March 13th. Spent the whole summer here at the house, which was kind of great. It was, L.A. was a really interesting place. It was, you know, there was no traffic. It was so beautiful. It really was, right? Yeah. There was something peaceful.

That was the silver lining. It was a scary time. Remember the haze of fog, of the smog that just cleared for the first time in 25, 30 years? It was just clear. So you really enjoyed that. And then I was gone for a good portion of the. 2020 in in in in Vancouver and it was really weird to be away from my wife for five months straight it's so long I don't not like you know we usually try to keep a two-week rule where either she's

coming to where I am or I go to where she is and so I was going to say because you had been together since 2009 or did you just get married in 2009 we've been together since 2000 oh my gosh so this is but okay the two-week rule that's something that I've heard a lot of couples in this industry do that's what grand I do too it must work Really? Yeah. Yeah. It does work because, you know, look, sometimes it's not, you can't be right to the letter two weeks. You know, there's some inconveniences. Yeah. You just, it's so important to check in with each other. I mean, my husband's gone all the fucking time. Yeah, I was going to say, of course. I just keep his stunt doubles mask. Oh, no. Oh, that's fantastic. Oh, amazing. Pulled up Jeff's stunt double silicone face mask?

Yeah, he just wrapped the Walking Dead and he was like... I mean, it has his beer. Like, yeah, what are we doing? We need some photo. Hold on. Let me take a picture. I hear what you guys are saying. I'm like, oh, that's so nice.

But you're right, he was down in Georgia and couldn't travel for the quarantine. Could you go see him at all? Ever? Well, we spent part of the year down there when my son was doing homeschool, but we couldn't go back and forth. There was no back and forth. And he was, like, forbidden from travel. So he would, like, sneak up every once in a while.

Yeah, of course. You had to be real careful. It may look different, but native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to be kind of. become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for the hundreds of years.

You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornellis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your

podcasts. We went up to do the pilot of Good Sam February 2020. We were four days from picture when they were like everything's shutting down, go home. Oh. And so then we went back to do the pilot to actually film it in 2021. And yeah, Michael, same thing. Yeah. The Canadian government was like, you can come and, you know, we'll lock you in a hotel room for two weeks.

You can't open the door. That's right. You order a lot of groceries. That's right. And they wouldn't, they wouldn't let Grant come. They were like, oh, they said he's non-essential to the production. And I was like, well, he's pretty fucking essential to me. Exactly.

I just didn't get to see him for three months. It was crazy. I can't believe you guys like to do five. That's so long. You know, look, thank God for FaceTime, obviously. And we checked in every day and we talk two, three times a day. And, you know, that makes a huge difference because being able to have that one-on-one, that face time, literally that face time, it just makes life easier. To see your person. It's just important. Yeah, we, listen, we have, we've been together for 20 years.

And we've got 20 years for a reason because, you know, we take this relationship series and we work at it. And that's not to say that it's not without, you know, difficulties and distractions. We're human beings. And so you have to, you really have to massage it and work it. And it's a choice. It's a choice that you make. And, you know, if you choose to stray or stumble, then, you know, you have to be accountable for that. And so we choose not to.

And we check in with each other. And the love is real. And, yeah, it's fascinating. I mean, again, I feel like I sound like the old guy with, you know, sage advice. But it's. Take us on a lap around the track. Give us good advice. Honestly, it's so nice to hear.

Look at the three of us leaning in. I want everyone at home to know. We've all leaned toward our computers and we're like, tell us your secrets, Michael. How do you stay in love for 20 years? Tell us more. I fall more in love every day. I get, and maybe because I turn 50,

I don't know, maybe that has something to do it. Maybe age is a factor. But it becomes abundantly clear to me that having that presence, that energy, my person, my soulmate, is invaluable. And I will do nothing to compromise that and to jeopardize that. And so the protection instinct kicks in. And it's just when you have a, when you build a shorthand with somebody, you know,

I can't imagine starting over again. Oh, my God. Imagine. I don't, I don't, man, I have, I just, I, I, I, the whole, you know, the whole, you know, I am. I can't because I sit there and think about the generation that has to date on this and they have to slice and find. Well, who is that Jason MoMA and Lisa Bonnet? They were like, they broke up for two weeks and then they were like, you know what, never mind. We don't want to do it. Yeah. So I don't need, I just can't relate to that. I just, I'm from a different generation. So I'm very, I'm very happy and I'm grateful.

And that's what it is is you have to have, you have to have gratitude and you have to be aware of it. You just have to. You've got to acknowledge it. Don't take anything for granted. But this is why your advice as Uncle Cooper landed because it's authentic to you. You know, you can tell that you're not some sleazy dude that's out there trying to hook up with everybody, you know? And like you're giving this. But Michael, you didn't play it that way. Yeah, that's right. Try not to.

No, a lot. I mean, it could have been, it could have been creepy. We were even saying the supermodel line could have come across like kind of sleazy and creepy. But it didn't at all. It just came across as sincere and like, oh. Yeah. And like, isn't that crazy? It did.

Yeah. Yeah. Isn't my life kind of wild? Because I winced at that. I was like, oh, Jesus. True. No, you pulled off. And then I end up sleeping with a 17-year-old on the show.

You do? Who? Oh, DeNeil? Yeah. Oh, I forgot. Rachel. By the way, though, honey, they did it to all of us. Yeah.

Sof hooks up with a teacher. I hook up with a dude in a band. Joy, did you ever hook up with an adult? Well, Chris Keller was technically out of high school. Wait, what's that storyline? Well, that's where I was during this episode, was off on a music tour. Okay, that's what I was going to ask you, yeah. And that's why she sang that song at the campfire

because that was a song that I started singing with Tyler Hilton before we went off on tour, so that, like, offended Nathan. And, yeah, it's all coming together. Yeah. Also, can we talk about that for one second while we're just talking about the ways this episode jumped the shark? Who lets a bunch of people camp in the center grass at a NASCAR

with fire and light a fire around vehicles. Yeah, nobody. What's happening? In this episode and there's lanterns? Like, what is going on?

Somebody brought a lantern to the racetrack with floodlights and then it's like, you know what we need is this little teeny tiny lantern. Lamps, man. Our show is all about the skin lamps.

They love a lamp. That was wild. That was, yeah, I don't know. Truco, what's your background with NASCAR? So I race. I went to race in school. I race in this ridiculous series called The 24 Hours of Lemons,

which is a play on the 24-Hour Limons, is where everybody has to purchase a car for $500 or less. I know this race. Yeah, it's phenomenal. Yeah, I have a friend who's done it. Where does this happen? This happens all over the country. From California to New Hampshire, there's races just about every other weekend.

You guys, this is an internet rabbit hole that is so fun. What's it called? 500. Okay, it's called 24 hours of lemons. Okay, we're all riding this down. Oh, this is a real big thing. Yeah, it was a big thing. We were the, um, we called our team the Mazda Ratchez, because we had a Mazda and it was painted like a Mexican flag. And we wore, we wore a big somberos.

So it's kind of like, you know, it's sort of Mardi Gras. Everybody dresses up for it and your car, each car has a theme. This is so fun. I want to go. I'm looking at this online right now. They're all kind of piece of shit cars. I've got $500. I'll sponsor your vehicle.

That's all you need It's 500 bucks Guys, let's get a car And spray paint a crown on it and go Drama Queen's car Yeah Can we? Yeah, 100%

Yeah I'm going to sign up And it's way less high stakes Than that pinball rally Yes, oh way less Yeah, the pinball rally It's like with Lamborghinis and Ferraris and stuff

These are $500 piece of shit cars Yeah Listen, I want We're driving Joy will drive over anything I'll drive I'm a medium

I'm a driver Oh yeah You're leading the two So I've always had a fascination with racing. I just always said I grew up in the wrong state. I grew up in California. If I grew up in a state like North Carolina or someplace in the south where racing is culturally in their blood,

I could see where that was something I probably would have pursued. I just, you know, as a kid, way back, I would watch racing with my dad. And everybody else was watching football and basketball, baseball. You know, I wasn't watching those sports. I was watching racing on Indy car racing, NASCAR racing, Formula One. So that was kind of a, it was Kismet. was when this role came up.

I told you this story at some conventions before. I don't know if you guys know this story. I was on the plane from L.A. to North Carolina, and I was going through the script, you know, as you do, and getting ready to go on to the show. And I'm trying to get a good sense of, you know, who this guy is. And it just referred to this character's Cooper. And so I was like, well, I need to do a deep dive,

and I know that I'm Deb's brother. And somewhere I found the name Lee. And I was like, oh, so the character is called Cooper Lee. And I put that together. And I'm sitting on the plane. and I'm wearing this jacket that actually made it to the show. And the reason it made it to the show is because it was some cheesy leather jacket that I got on Melrose years ago.

But the brand was Lee Cooper. Oh. And the name was stitched onto the sleeve. The name was stitched onto the sleeve and said, and I took the jacket off and I looked inside and it was called a Lee Cooper jacket. And I was flying over here to play a Cooper Lee. And I was like, okay, this jacket has to be in the show. So that's the one that I'm wearing in that episode when we're walking on the track.

clocked it and I thought wardrobe did it that's nuts. Yeah, Lee Cooper was the brand of that. I love when stuff like that happens. I love it. And I was like, it's meant to be. With your knowledge of NASCAR, like what did you see in this episode? Because you know when like when military guys

watch military shows and they're like, oh my God, they're like, that's bullshit. What did you see in this episode where you were like no, hate it? Yeah. Well, just the disparity between the cars look like they're going about 35 miles an hour and the idea that we're supposed to be going 135 miles an hour.

You know, there was a few things that, listen, I'm sure NASCAR guys are also, I'm not certain that you'd put two kids in the car on the second day that they're there. Or four kids. Yeah, exactly. They do have schools like that and you do a lead follow. But they don't really open it up to, hey, I'm going to take the high line. I definitely, if I'm a professional race car driver, I don't bump draft my nephew in front of me. And his first day on the car.

It was first day at a car. And you go up and you hit him on the, you know, that's, that's, unbelievable. So that was a little, probably a little dicey. But I think it was good. Like, they had the terminology, right? When Skyley gets out of the car, she goes, it's loose and tight off. You know, those are terms that they use, meaning that the car, the back end comes around and the front end pushes. And so I thought all that stuff was good.

I mean, Jeff Burton was there. That legitimized it. Yeah. He's a big deal, man. I used to lie when I was a kid. kid and tell people I was related to him is all right that's hilarious like not really same name i love hearing that because we were talking too about you know how you and skyler were both such highlights of this episode she's just so lovely yeah and we were jealous that we didn't get to

work with her so yeah it's nice to hear that you know the stuff she had to do was as accurate as it could be was that role meant when they can expand that was that like going to be a potential Dude, we were just talking before you came on. It felt to us like they were prepping for a spinoff. Interesting. Did you feel that way? So do you guys know the story? I was doing Battlestar at the same time as this.

And I was recurring on both shows. And this is one of those weird moments that you can't orchestrate as an actor. You know, you just, when all the forces align at one time, I was going to Vancouver, would shoot an episode of Two of Battlestar. I'm going to go back to see you guys in North Carolina. And then inevitably there was that one year, I think it was towards the end of the season, maybe at the beginning of the next, whenever it was,

that that'll start called and said, hey, we need you for these dates. And your show called and said, we need you for the exact same dates. And we're like, uh-oh. So we came to this impasse, and I don't know if you know, but both shows stepped up.

And there was a scenario where Mark had approached me and said, we want to bring you into the fold next season full time. And Sophia, they were going to hook our characters up together. I was robbed. I was pretty robbed. This is bullshit. Yeah, that was because you know how there was going to be a time jump?

I think you guys had graduated and then. Oh, my God, you were going to come back for five? For grown-up, Brooke Davis, the owner of closeover bros dating the hot race car drive. What the fuck man? There you go. I'm so mad. I'm telling you, yeah. I didn't know that.

That makes you sad. Honey, we're going to have to send her flowers. We're going to have to like, yeah. I would have loved to have like a good buddy be my on-screen boyfriend. That would have been so nice. I've had so much of that in my adult life, and it's been so nice. Yeah. Like it's so, even like on my show now, my character's in a bit of a love triangle.

And Edwin Hodge, who interestingly enough was on One Tree Hill with us back in the day. And then Michael Stahl David, who I love from Narcos, they're like the two, guys my character's trying to figure her shit out with and they're like two of my best friends and it's so fun. See that's so great. Yeah I feel robbed. But then you got your Battlestar then offered you a series regular so you went and took that. That's what happened so then

one the one news got one got wind of the other one yeah they're like well hold on a second and I think yeah I think it was just it came down to you know I was looking and I've got it given you a better deal of course yeah you're a free agent And it was, and I don't regret it at all. I mean, listen, I do, I would love to have spent more time with you guys. And like I said, I don't regret for a second my time on one tree.

And it's been, it's been amazing because the reaction, just from being there for a short time, I was like, why it would have been great to have spent a whole another season or two with you guys. And I'd love to see where that would have taken me. But I think Battlestar was such a great experience for me. And it put me, it gave me a whole, you know, opened a lot of doors. And by the way, like a behind the scenes thing that a lot of people won't think about in terms of how actors have to make decisions like that, you know, for you, L.A. to Vancouver is a quick three-hour flight. That's easy for you and Sondra. For your relationship. You're in the same time

zone. You can see each other on the weekends. Wilmington is not only, you know, across the country and three hours later, but there's no direct flight. So it is eight hours of flying, not even the travel time to and from the airport on either side. It's an eight-hour flight. It's a full day. two planes to get there. So it doesn't surprise me that, you know, someone in your position who loves and prioritizes his relationship with his wife is like, I must stay close to home. So you nailed it. I mean, you could not have iterated that better.

That's exactly that factored a lot into it. Of course, because Vancouver, not only is the flight show, you're in the same time zone. Yeah. And that just, it just comes. It makes things so much less complicated. There is nothing worse than trying to communicate on two different time zones. It's so hard. And invariably, it's that.

Well, what time is it? There. Why are you still? Oh. Yeah. Why are you up? Oh, well, who are you? You know, like, oh, my God. You know, well, I'm just going to sleep, but you're just getting up. And, you know, you're going to sleep and you're out at dinner with our friends. Like, it's just, it's so hard. Yeah. So those things can, can, you know, there can be a grind. And that definitely had a factor in the decision. But, you know, I wished in an alternate universe that there was a scenario where Cooper was back. See, now you can, like, throw the Reese Witherspoon thing at the networks and be like, well, she did big little lies and little fires everywhere at the same time. Yeah. Let me be on two shows at once. Exactly. But at the time, shows would not allow that.

Like the idea that you would work on one show and then work on another networks were like, who do you think you are? Actor person? And you're like, well, I'm an actor. So I'd like to act. I don't know. No, but they wanted exclusivity for sure. And that's ultimately what they had to step up to the deal, to the table and come

other deal you know when you're recurring they don't own your time you know yeah and and so you're bouncing between shows and you're paid accordingly if they're going to if they're going to you know secure your time then of course you get you get paid more but then you're you're exclusive to that show so yeah it worked out but how are you guys doing no who cares about us what I want to know is um all these guitars hanging on your back wall we had we had a little bit of music in this episode at the weird bonfire in the middle of the field um am I an idiot for not not knowing that you're a musician. Are you a musician? No, those are cake. I'm a baker.

Shut up, Michael. Those are just, those are made out of frosting. And he's quick. Do you have a band? What are you doing? I'll swing the camera. That was my band, Simple World. Oh, what?

Wait, did you have long hair in a band? Oh, yeah, full on long hair. Look at those petals, though. You're still recording. Ben, you're still recording music? Not really, but like this is, yeah. So there's the JC 120, which is a class. There's the pedal board that I use. I'm pulling this up on Google.

Simple what now? Come here. Simple world. I'm literally writing it on a post-it. Are you a singer? One word. No, I was the guitar player. I have a terrible voice.

Well, I did backup, but you could bury backup in the mix and nobody knows if you're bad or not. I'm pulling up pictures. Yeah, we, um, oh, you got to see some photos. We got, um, hold, I'm looking at some of them. Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Yeah, we're babies.

Oh, my God. Yeah. I'm here. This is a 14 t-shirt. Yeah, yeah. Oh, which picture is that? I don't know. Oh, it's you guys at the Viper Room.

Oh, yeah. You played the Viper Room? Yeah, we played the Viper Room. Yeah, that's awesome. Yeah, yeah. We were legit for about a half a minute. I'm following your band now. Oh, thank you.

Oh, my God, yes. You know what it was is that, again, this is so funny how really with age comes wisdom. At the time, we didn't appreciate what we were doing. We were chasing the dragon. We were always trying to be. what was happening in the scene because we were always a step behind the trend. We were a big arena, U2 style REM, Rolling Stones rock and roll band when grunge and like club and like super angsty emo was happening and we weren't.

We were pop and we apologize for it. We apologize in our performance. We apologize in our music. You know, and so like those days at the viper and when you're lined up with four other bands and you have your half hour slot or your 40-minute slot and all these other guys was dripping cool everybody was just cool but they weren't they were like i know but it felt that way i've had to explain this to my son where i'm just like dudes and bands are nerds and they just are yeah yeah yeah for sure like you know i mean my my drummer was wearing you know this is the 90s and early 2000s

he was wearing uh uh shoelaces shoes with two different shoelaces that were hot pink and hot you know uh green and they said new kids on the block. You know, like, nobody would be rocking new kids on the block when they were still super pocketed. Like, that's just- Irony wasn't cool yet. The early 2000s were not ironic. We had to, like, get out a little bit.

Yeah. Yeah, so we didn't really, I wish I could go back and enjoy it a little bit more. We were always like, I don't know, we got to be this. We have to be that. And we have to dress like that. And I was like, no, you don't. You just got to do whatever you do, whatever your jam is, whatever your sound is.

And however you choose to dress and perform, that's who you are. It takes a while to figure that out. though, especially as artists, because I think built into most artists is the desire to be liked, and you want the attention, you want the strokes, the accolades, you want all of that. And so the easiest way to get that is to fit in where you see that everybody else getting all that. That's right. And it's hard to realize, like, actually, you being original and bringing something that's only from you to the table is what ultimately will give you the fulfillment that you're looking. Yeah, you're so right.

And you hear that, and people tell you that, and that's the advice that you were given, and you see it on shows. was like, American Idol. Like, you just do yourself, be authentic to yourself. And you always go, yeah. And then you have no idea what the fuck that means. And then there's like an A&R exec who's like, you know what you need, kid.

To be more like this guy. Yeah. You had a producer or a manager who's like, uh, Zeus, you know, our singer's name was Zeus, by the way. I mean, if you, if you're in a baby. What? Yes.

Well, his real name is Jesus Mendoza, but his whole life you went by Zeus. That's hot. So that's just a rad name for a singer. But at one point, they tried to get him to sing. kind of grovely. Like Eddie Vedder? Yes, exactly.

Exactly. Everybody was doing the Eddie better at that point. Everybody was doing the nickel back to her. Oh my God. It's like how everybody tries to sound like Marcus Mumford now. Yes, exactly. So that was the stuff that we were fighting because exactly what you just said, Hillary, that somebody told us, well, if you guys want to, you know, make it to the

next level, you need to sound, you need to be this. We didn't need to be anything. We just weren't. We were. were. But it was short-lived. I mean, it wasn't short-lived. We had the band for a long time, but by the time we all got into our 30s, it was starting to, you know, I don't think it's too late, Michael. We have these conventions. Everybody plays at the conventions. Hell, if I wanted to start a band, they'd let me play. For real? Okay. I'll call it. I'm also like, do you just still

play at home for fun, for you? Yeah. Yeah, that's what most of this stuff is. It's a great, it's super therapeutic and uh like for example when i was in vancouver five months i brought one of my guitars and here's the other thing that i you know if i wish i'd had back then is this university of youtube i became an infinitely better guitar player in five months sitting in my apartment in vancouver because i was like i've always wanted to learn uh the this solo from you know whatever song you know pick a some yeah pick a song any song or something that i was like i've always we used to play it but i never played it right. And now you can just dial it up on YouTube. The guy goes, well, here's what

you want to do. And he just shows you how to play it. And if you have the time and you have the basic, you know, cognitive knowledge of a guitar, you can, you can learn these things. And I, so through, I spent five months almost every day playing the guitar in Vancouver and was like, oh, oh, I never knew how, I never knew this. You know, I'm good. Put that into our music because I was, I was pretty rudimentary. I mean, you know, our music was simple, hence the name, simple world. But it was, it was very, it was poppy. And it was, and it was, and it was, you know, it was just simple, good old fashioned. You're going to have

to send us a video for us to post on our social media so that we can bask in like the sexy guitar plane. I bet you kept your shirt undone too. You know she didn't button a shirt. I don't know. I don't know.

Sexies. There's that. Oh, yeah. Oh, my God. Yes. We need that. We need that. We need it. But this is even better.

This is the mouth breather. Oh my god Look at your vest And then the vest With no shirt underneath And the headband Honestly in this moment You're also giving me

Strong Craig Schaeffer vibes This makes a lot of sats Totally Right You're gonna have to give us those That amp is right there No way That's some cool

I love that Yeah we need you to play us a song Yeah well Right now I mean Whenever you want Honestly, I hate to be weird, but I'm like, but if you send us a video, we can watch it more than once.

Shut up. You can't. You can't reread a phone call. That's true. That's why I like letters. It's true. We can't. I like things I can hold on to. This is true.

It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge. honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast,

Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sageburn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Is that what Uncle Cooper's doing right now? That's what the fans always ask. They're like, what's your character doing now? Is he still racing? Is he in a band? What does he do? That's good question. No, he's, let's see.

Cooper's now. Yeah, you know, you could conceivably in NASCAR, you could be racing at 50. This possibility. I think he's still in the game. I think he's in racing. I think he owns a team. Oh, yeah. Oh, yes.

He's got 22-year-old drivers and, you know, that's the new up-and-coming generation. But, yeah, I think Cooper leaves, that whole, that team, that whole business is still it is still going. I like that. Yeah. I love it. What can we tell people to watch you in? What can we point to?

What are you working on right now? Well, so I did finish Midnight Mass, which was on Netflix, which if you guys like horror, I don't know if you guys are down with the horror chocolate. We do. I mean, I'm carrying around my husband's fake head. Yes, it's true. I just had a horror movie come out. Which one?

Yeah, you did. It's my first time ever doing a horror movie. Oh, tell me. It's called So Cold the River. It's out now. But what's, and what's Midnight Mass about? Oh, God. Midnight Mass.

It looks really scary. Yeah, it's, it's really esoteric. It's midnight mass as a, it's a study on religion, actually. It gets into the lore of faith and fanaticism. And it's about a small fishing island that's about 30 miles off the coast of the United States. And this staunchly Catholic little fishing society. he's had the same Monsignor for seven decades and suddenly he falls ill and this young priest shows up and says, I'm not here to replace him. I'm just here, you know, to fill in for Father

Paul or for Monsignor Pruitt. And when this priest shows up, strange things start happening on the island. And it goes, yeah, it gets, it's a slow burn. It starts, it kind of pulls you in and then it just gets bats crazy at the end. And it's my face, it's very special. It's a, it's a study on, life and death and religion and it's all set in a horror genre which is interesting. You know, that's what Mike Flanagan does so well is take horror and turns the convention on its head

and actually gives you this real deep, esoteric think piece. And so I'm leaving this end of this month to go back up. We're doing the next one called The Fall of the House of Usher. It's based on Edgar Allan Poe. Stop! Oh, I love Usher. Yes. Yeah.

It's going to be so fun. So it's five Edgar Allan Poe short stories. It's like the past of the Monteado. Hillary, you need to get in on that. Yeah, you do. Hi, Michael. Yes. You want to put a word in for me.

I'm your creepy friend. I can make the introduction. Trust me. You'll never meet a gother girl. They would love you. That's so cool. So I'm, yeah, very fortunate to kind of have been, yeah, sort of adopted into the, they call it the Flanniverse, the Mike Flanagan universe. is like he he's notorious all of us from midnight mass have come back for the house of usher that is so cool

and they were in the and a lot of them were in midnight or i'm sorry uh the haunting of hill house the haunting of fly manner so those are all my i did this movie called hush with with mike uh so really small indie film we shot in Alabama in 21 days and i just kind of gotten into yeah that was a great movie and we just got into his world and yeah thank god because it's just it's a it's a it's a It's a strange world. We're gluttoned for punishment in this business. Well, and it's why we've all stayed together. It's important to find your little families and to nurture them.

And we're so glad that, you know, even though this episode was kind of a doozy, you became a part of our family in this episode in a way that. We're so grateful. Yeah. Hope I didn't stink up the joint when I showed us. We gave us a break. You were the gift. You saved it.

Saved the show, for sure. Well, guys, should we spin a wheel with my phone? Michael, we spend a wheel every week because this is a show about high school so we do most likely twos from the yearbook. Oh! Who is most likely to compete

on dancing with the stars? So we do who, which character do you think and then which person in real life do you think would be the most likely too. So we have two answers always. Okay. Dancing with the stars.

I have to answer that. Well, we all answer. Here's the thing. I have to make a confront. fashion, my husband wants me to do dancing with the stars. Are you serious? I'm going to do dancing with the stars. Really?

Oh, my God. Wait, are you serious? Jeff's like, I think you should do it. And I'm like, what are you talking about? He's like, I don't know, you're just always moving your body weird around the house. I did not say no to that show. Because you know what? It's a lot hard work and you just get to completely throw yourself into it.

I know people have done this show. And it's like, it's so much work, but it's so fun and such a great release. I think I just want to be strong. Like, do you know what I mean? Like, you see everyone's muscles when they're done? And I'm like, yeah, man, I would, I got to be honest, I would totally not do that show. I never, ever, ever. I can't think of anything more torturous and horrifying and terrifying.

That is my Achilles heel. I'm an awful dancer. That's your next horror film. That's the next scary movie you have to do. You have to waltz in the next planet of those projects. Oh, God. I can see Bevin doing dancing with this. Stars.

Oh, my God. That's... She's good. You know, who first came to mind for me? Who I think would be so good? Barbara. Well, I was just going to say, she danced in this episode.

Right? Deb on Dancing with the Stars? Yeah. That was my answer, too. I couldn't agree. Okay, that's the winner then. Yeah, yeah, yeah. She'd be so good.

But Hillary, I'm encouraging you. No, I'm not. No, this is like a my husband thing, which is so weird. Jeff just wants to see you and dance around and some sparkles, I bet. He's like, you know, what would be funny me? I can just do that at home.

Like, I don't want to go on TV and do it. You need to go on TV and do it. I think the world needs that. No, you could, you know what, Hillary, with both of our musical theater background, like there's something that happens in there that you never quite get away from that just dancing in your life, in your regular engagement.

Well, I think Joy and I want to do cabaret on Broadway. That's what we, that's the, I mean, sorry, not Chicago fucking my brain. Joy and I want to do Chicago on Broadway. There's only one rolling cabaret. Oh, I was like, you want to do Broadway in Chicago? We could trade off.

Yeah, let's do Chicago. Did you guys do a lot of musical theater? Yeah. Yeah. A lot. You did. Yeah. But if you watch this episode, you can tell that I wasn't the better dancer.

Joy is definitely. I wasn't in this episode. I was a ghost. I just laid. It was so few. She was in a bed and then she wasn't. It was you and Moira and. And Barbara, it was you two.

Yeah, it was the two of us and then Barb and Moira. The cringiest dancing ever. Yeah, it was pretty cringy. I was just pissed. I was like, God, I was like, I danced in school. Not having music and being expected to do a routine. You know. And even.

You're so hung up on it. I'm so mad about it. Even the girls, the cute girls who did the coyote ugly routine in the last episode, they got choreography. I was like, why can't we have some? Anyway, I'll be thinking. about that for the next 10 years. Good dancing is great. But most of the time dancing makes me uncomfortable watching it even.

I don't like watching people dance. I get comfortable for that. You get itchy, huh? I'm glad we could all be uncomfortable together this episode, guys. I know. Hey, how did you guys? I know you have to go, but I was just curious how the three of you guys, you all did good Sam, right?

You guys? Yeah, we did. It was so fun. So fun. So fun to go on South's show. You know, she's killing it over there and she's just so well loved and respected. And it's so nice to see her in her. in her element like that

and for all of us to also just play together again was so fun. I saw the photos and it looked like you guys had a blast. Wait, is that your way of being like you want to be on season two? I'm like, you want to put her on account? She goes, I have a love triangle. I was like, do you want to love square?

Yes. Oh my God, you know, Brooke Davis loves a rectangle plus one. I'm just saying. Oh my God, Michael, please come on my show so I can get the dream that I didn't even know was stolen from me until today.

Let's make that full circle happen. This has been an informative episode of drama queens, everyone. Brought to you by Evil Titties. Evil Tiddies. He wasn't there for that part. There was a whole joke. I love it. Michael, you are the best.

Thank you so much for coming to play with us today. Thank you, darling. That was so fun. It's so nice to see you. So great to see all three of you. And I'm in L.A. Let's go for a hike. I'd love to come see you when you're lady.

I know. you like Sophie and I we contact each other on on Instagram and I was like that's that's so what we we do we're pretty good we get back to each other right I love it yeah you have yes you have my info you got my email look you know I would love to I'd love to hook up we'll go and do a hike or something that'd be great perfect I love you guys thank you for coming soon buddy thank you so much for having me take care thank you oh everybody that was so fun Thanks everyone for listening. Oh, we just love him.

Hey, girls, here's to our high hopes for a better episode next week. You know what? Two squirly ones in a row means we got to get a good one next week, right? Yeah, yeah. Well, what do we know about it? What's it called? Can we get a teaser with our title? Next week's episode, season two, episode 20, is called Lifetime Piling Up.

Oh, God. We're exhausted already. Joy, do us a favor. Can you create a mixed drink for next week's episode so that we can get through us? Yes, I love that idea. Yeah, a cocktail might help. Okay, all right, cocktail time is happening. All right, I love you guys.

Love you too. Bye. Bye. Bye. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens, O-T-H. Or email us at Dramaquins at iHeartRadio.com.

See you next. time we're all about that high school drama girl drama girl all about them high school queens we'll take you for a ride and our comic girl cheering for the right team drama queens drama queens smart girl rough girl fashion but you're tough girl you could sit with us girl drama queen drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens drama queens It may look different, but Native Culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop.

Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.