Drama Queens - Moving in with Stephen Colletti • EP 902

Episode Date: August 4, 2025

Stephen Colletti is back for the recap with more fun confessions. Was Chase's bold move charming or controlling? Hear his thoughts on his character moving in with Alex, while he talks about his REAL life roommate at the time! Plus- who he says was the most underrated actor on OTH.   Meanwhile, Sophia dishes on some drama that made things awkward at work, and Rob reveals a radical fan theory about Nathan being taken!See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

This is an I-Heart podcast. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first Native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage, Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

First of all, you don't know me. We're all about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl. Drama girl. Cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queen, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens.

Guys, I'm super-aunt deeply in my feelings because we're getting toward the end and it makes me want to sob, but also excited because I think we're in a juicy place in the story. We are here for season 9, episode 2, in the room where you sleep. The original air date was January 18th, 2012, and we have a family member, guest, friend of the pod here with us today. Take it away, Stephen. excited to be here you guys Wow Season 9 You guys made it

We did it The finish line is you can It's there in the distance You can see it I mean we only did about I don't know 17 18 episodes Actual viewing episodes

And some Q&A's for the Laguna Beach podcast But you guys I don't know what number episode you're on But honestly bravo I don't know It's a lot Because there were 187 episodes Of One Tree Hill

Yeah And we've done a recap cap for every episode and Q&A's with you guys and like special content in the live show and how isn't seeing everybody grow up before your eyes like from season one to oh my gosh season nine I mean that's a it's almost 10 years

it's kind of crazy also God the show started in a time where the fashion was just so bad right it was so bad like where were the tops of our pants But we were just missing inches. It was wrong. But I'm glad we are where we are today. Do you, um, guest of honor want to read the synopsis for the folks at home? Oh, sure. All right, you guys. Welcome to season nine. Episode two here is the synopsis. Brooke discusses a new business venture with her father as Julian stresses about his own investment.

Quinn convinces Clay to get help and Millie struggles to be honest with mouth. Meanwhile, Chris Keller makes Alex an offer. She may not be able to refuse. And Nathan volunteers to scout in Europe, leaving Dan with Haley and Jamie. This episode, because there was stuff I really liked, there was stuff I really disliked. Oh, say more. Well, it's easy because there's only like one real source spot for me. And that is like, what the hell are we doing to poorly Norris?

and what is this offensive, lame, half-baked attempt at a storyline? I remember it happening and even and being like, what's going on? And Lee was just sort of going like, I don't, I don't know. And I'm now watching the episode. It is, it's just so, we're getting a little ahead of ourselves, but let's just jump in because now I'm hot in the biscuit about it. I don't understand because first of all, like Jerry and, and, uh, Millie are talking about the station, like, it's some huge thing.

And then he, first of all, he walks into his first shot and he is, he's double fisting a hoagie. Which I just thought, like, it was so hat on a hat. Like, he's already in, in like, air quotes, like a fat suit. But here's the thing I thought, it's like, he's, why is like, so he gained some weight? He didn't look like morbidly obese or like he was unhealthy. He just looked like a guy who would gain some weight. and like it was this just weird stupid like in the bit apparently is that he's gained weight like that's the punchline and we can't talk about it with i just lees so good and the character

of mouth is so interesting and unique and the best we could do was put him in a fat suit yeah it's a it's a real weird choice and i don't know if this bumped you, but when Millie's talking to Jerry and is like, I'm worried for his health, and this, that, and the other, and Jerry basically alludes to how, like, well, you know, we've all struggled, like, because she went to rehab. And I'm like, wait a second, wait a second. What is this? And truly, I wonder, did they just run out of storylines? Did they run not a creativity because these two having a super highly rated morning show together is adorable and a whole universe that we could be exploring but the gag is that he's eating ice cream

on TV and saying he's not going to share with his girlfriend and got fat like and there is no connective tissue between what's happening now and anything that we have established with mouth over the previous eight seasons no it's not like he's not like he's we've alluded to maybe him having a thyroid issue or like he's battled weight his whole lot it's just it's like apropos of nothing this thing just happens and it's what's so jarring about it is season nine opened so hot like the the teaser was everyone like the stakes literally couldn't have been higher mouth's not even there okay fine but then we go into episode two and there is so much about this episode that is really masterful storytelling the Dan scott of it all you know these things that are happening clay and Quinn you know Alex and in chase and then it's just like it's completely off kilter and then there's mouth and what I remember I remember back then I honestly remember asking Lee is uh is our boss is he pissed at you is he fucking with you like what's because

it was, because clearly our writer's room was very good at storytelling. They provided pretty awesome stories for everyone so far this season and it was just like which one of these does not belong and yep. So weird. I didn't

get it man. It's so funny because there's some moments where I'm watching and it is nice throughout the season where there's some lighter stuff with the Chris Keller and Chase of it all. It's a little bit of kind like a buddy cop thing that they, but she have going on.

And if sometimes I'd be like, is this kind of, is he taken out of some of these like really, again, well-written stuff, good storylines, what's going on with Clay and Quinn and with Brooke as well.

And, and of course, with Dan and Nathan. And it's like, there's some intense stuff. And then all of a sudden it pops over to one of these scenes. And I'd be like, oh,

it's kind of a little silly, but maybe it's fun to have a little bit laugh here. But then I also felt that. when you get into the scenes with Lee and his suit and it was just like, my thought my mind was like, this feels like an idea that came up

when honestly somebody might have been like drunk and it's somehow stuck. And so, and it just kind of made it much further that it shouldn't have. And especially, yeah, when you think about Lee and his character in the show

and I mean, it's kind of a, it's ultimately I think a compliment to Lee because it's like, all right, he could handle this, you know, let's have Lee do it

because he's professional and he'll do it and he'll rise to the occasion. He'll commit. Yeah, and it's just unfortunate because it does feel like it doesn't belong. Well, and part of why it bothers me and I don't, I remember having the same feeling that, like what fight did you get in with the head honcho

to deal with this? And I think what irked me watching it is there is no drama currently in Brooke and Julian's world. And we have great buddy comedy stuff as characters. And so I'm watching how well they're writing for us and how just sort of baseless the writing is for Lee and Lisa, who are credible comedians. And I'm like, so obviously you know how to tell a joke.

Why can't you just tell jokes for both couples? What are we doing here? And that was the other part. They would have like three lines. And then the scene would be over. Like, this is that I don't get it. It's so brief. It was very, very odd.

And you're saying like it's a credit to Lee and you're right. I mean, because Lee sold it and he committed. But it was a disservice to the show and to the fans because you took the character of mouth who is so integral to the show. He's like the moral compass. a lot of ways, you know? And you made him a punchline. That wasn't even funny. And then, unfortunately, you tied Millie to it because she's his partner. So now she's stuck in these, like, very, like, lopsided scenes that don't make sense where there are no stakes.

There's no, it's just like, it's, because I love both of them as actors. And I just, I just found myself every time we had to cut back and watch them. It was like watching good actors do their best with really shit. material. Yeah. I will say, hats off to Lee, because I was so shocked at how funny the moment was where he kissed her on the cheek and goes, oh, got a little mayo on you. And I was like, and I don't know if it was scripted or not. Like, I don't. And that's exactly it. Like, The level of leaning into it, it's such a testament to them. But when you have actors as good as those two, just write them better shit.

So, anyway. Watching Lee over the years in that show, like, there was never a day where if I caught some of his scenes, that that dude was ever off. Like, nothing fazed him. He's such a vet, such a pro. I always enjoyed watching him because he came so prepared he was never really phased by any of the whether it's a ton of people

and trick and a lot going on or just him and Millie's sitting together yeah he just was nails all the time and so I that's what I was thinking watching out was like man they give it to him because I know I get the team could handle it he would rise to the occasion

but yeah it was it was interesting and don't remember exactly how that came about or what the story was, but I'd be curious to know whose bad idea continued to push through and actually make it into the script. Yeah. It feels like it had to be someone higher up pushing it through because I just find it hard to believe that with a talent in our writer's room that no one thought they couldn't beat

that storyline. You know, it's like the best joke wins. There's no way that that talented group of writers went, can't top that. Nope, that's it. That's the pinnacle of creative storytelling. Yeah. No. No. So that was kind of my main, my main gripe.

I'm just like, they deserve better and they're so good. And yet we're having to do this. And I don't remember where it goes. But my goodness, I hope it doesn't stay for too long. Same. And thank you because I lost my train. I thought, that's what I was going to say is I don't. remember where this goes. So I, I so hope that in a few episodes, I'm able to go, I was wrong.

It actually was a great foil for something else. I hope. I hope I get to eat crow on this. But because I don't, I'm just reacting to what I know, which is like just this episode. And I'm like, oh, come on, guys. Also, I remember Lee kind of like, I know it's going to go on for a couple episodes. I didn't watching head too much. But I remember that, you know, he has to go to work now a couple hours earlier. Yes. He's first up and the call time is 6.30 for everybody. He's in there at like 4.30 in the morning because a lot of our days are clubbed together. It's like if you see the scenes between Millie and Mouth, like they're going to shoot all that in one day. And so, you know, they're going to be

there all day and they're going to start early and Lee's going to work. I mean, yeah, he's going, He's probably one of the first people to the studios to do all that. That's another reason why it was confusing, you know, because it wasn't as though they just realized, oh, we're over budget and we need to find what's a storyline that will cost us zero dollars. No, they had to design a custom suit around his body, which is not cheap. And make prosthetics for his face and neck? So it's actually, it's a storyline that's going to cost more than a normal storyline. So again, it just didn't make sense because it wasn't like, well, we're saving a ton of money here. So it's actually sort of a necessary Band-Aid.

It's like, no, this is costing more than arguably all of the other storylines because those are just locations. Yeah. It's weird. Listen, that said, the rest of the episode was a banger. Agreed. Loved it. One of the things that caught me was like, man, what a perfect kind of grenade to throw into this last season with the arrival of one, Harry Johnson, Mr. Chris Keller.

You know, watching him, it's, he's so good, so fine. I've heard, you know, I'd heard over the years, we'd never worked together and heard all the stuff about him. And to have the opportunity to work with him in this season and see him up close a lot. And what a, what a fun character. Yeah. What a great character that he just, he rocked. And he's nothing like Chris Keller.

So it's what's so cool to, I mean, he's such a sweetheart, such a good dude. And Chris Keller is a dude. And he knocks it out of the park. I think sometimes that works best, like someone who's so kind, playing someone who's not. There's something that happens in the energetic alchemy where the jokes get funnier. And what killed me about this episode in particular, the way he comes in 901 is so good. But the best gag in this episode is that even, Even though he's the worst, he's making everyone around him better.

He's making Alex's music better. He's alone with Chuck for five minutes, and he has scored Chuck's show tune. Like, every single time you leave him and hope he gets what's coming to him. When you get back to him, he's made someone's day. And it's just, it's comedic poetry. I love it. And Tyler, again, commits to the best. bit so hard that you can't help but love him, even though you kind of want to, like, give him

the double eye poke that like kids used to do to each other in the 50s. And this is another testament to just how well written and well thought through this episode was that they did this amazing tofer that started off with a hilarious joke, which is that Chris Keller wrote the freaking toaster pastry jingle that Quinn was singing last season. So that blew my mind. That alone, I just thought, like, this is so funny that, like, this infamous song, we're actually finding out this infamous character wrote, which is, like, perfectly on brand, right?

And I thought that was it. But no, because then that actually became the device for Alex to sort of take a cheap shot at him for us to get a glimpse at the actual vulnerability. of Chris Keller. And that was such a good moment because Tyler is such a good actor that how do you not love getting to see him drop his guard

and be honest with him. Yeah, him getting to be vulnerable and speak about regret and take the kind of veneer off of, no, everything I do is great. And that, you know, that pays my rent and da-da-da-da, to drop it and be human

It plants that little seed that you see in Alex for the rest of the episode. She goes back to Julian for advice, which we haven't seen her do in a while. You know, it's this thing where you get what's germinated in her mind based on his vulnerability. And it's a better device than if he had just been like the cocky guy saying some, you know, passing off some schick. and making her self-conscious, it's the vulnerability about the opportunities he let go that make her afraid to let something go.

And I thought, like, how refreshing and new. That moment, Rob, I'm glad he brought that moment up because I'd written down as one of my favorite moments of the show. Was that, right when you're saying, the guard comes down and you see the vulnerability, it really gives it out of layer to the thing. Chris Keller, but all, which was really, really well done. And they did such a good job of actually making him three-dimensional.

You know, the fact that he is good at his job and they show us how he does it, you know, so he demonstrates value. He's not just there to be an asshole. And then we see this glimpse into his vulnerability and him actually sharing his mistakes, you know, hopefully for the betterment of Alex. All of that just fleshed him out so much, which, makes him that much more lovable and just awesome as a character. Yeah.

And he's just so funny. He's just so damn funny. Yeah. Like I called and I was like, buddy, I'm loving watching you on this show because like, like you said, Stephen,

he is one of the sweetest men in the world. He's the best. He's nothing like Chris Keller. But oh my God, does he play a douchebag so believable and just so well? And make him so likable. You can't, I mean, there, of course there's those moments where you're like, oh, I think Chris Keller, like, what an ass, what an ass.

But then there are these other moments in which they show the vulnerability. Or, I mean, even at the end, you listen to him sing as we're getting out of the episode. What a really, really cool way to tie, put a bow on the episode with him singing and just have another little intimate moment. Very, very cool. And it's like, if you were already sold on Chris Keller, you see that at the end of the episode. So I'd be like, oh, man, I love this character. I love watching him.

And what I thought was so smart, too, is the more human he's getting. And even you see how enamored with him, Chuck is. And he wants to do his hair like Chris. And then he's calling himself Chuck Skolnick in the third person like Chris Keller does. And you're like, God, I just, I love him even though I want to hit him. And then he shows up at Nathan and Haley's and just undercuts all the good he's been doing. James. And James played it so perfectly because he was so deadpanned to joy and just said, my wife doesn't tell me things anymore. And I was like, this, it's just so well done.

And what does James say at the door? How that line written down is like, why do I say these things? He says something right before he opens the door and it's Chris Keller there. He says to himself, it was a great delivery. Yeah. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional.

It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls, became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con

or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast. Speaking of funny things, let's just rewind real quick to the start of the episode. So first of all, the panic, the opening shot of Brooke and Julian waking,

Brooke really wakes up in a panic because she doesn't hear the kids. And as a parent, I was like, that is so real and so freaking funny. But cut two, we find out it's Victoria, has the twins in the kitchen. And my new favorite thing is watching Austin house food. Because his delivery, when he says, oh, my God, I love coffee cake while he's just inhaling it. And of course, Brooke is not okay because why is Victoria in their house with the babies? And he just can't be bothered to address it. And the next time is quiet babies, coffee cake, amazing.

He was just so funny, man. Yeah. It killed me. I loved, like, getting to do physical comedy in this way was always my favorite part of the show. And just the fact that we were able to have that, the panic, what's going on, there's the humor in the sit-up, in the look around, run into the room, you know, somebody, fuck them, they're gone, smack into each other. He's on the ground. He tells me to hit him and I slap him across the face. all because we can't understand the picture of Victoria Davis in like a 1950s housewife apron and two perfectly behaved babies in the high chair. It just kept getting better.

And it's like, that's the joke you want to build. It's the opposite of the hat on the hat that they threw it at Lee and Lisa, unfortunately. And I was like, man, this is, this is exactly what I want to be doing all of it. Yeah, you guys killed that. I was to say, it was so fun watching that when you got pop up and run around the house, him sliding into the other room, because somebody stole them and that you guys popped into each other. It was like very well executed. I really, really enjoyed that part.

Oh, so fun. Well, and at first, I thought it was a bit, right? I thought he was sensing that Brooke and Victoria were about to get into it, and he was trying to, like, distract and deflect. But then what was funny about it is you realize that's actually not the case. He is just so happy to have fresh coffee cake and quiet babies. Yeah. It was so smart and so funny, man.

It's so great. It's so great. And the funny thing is, like, it was clearly funny then. But I was thinking about you watching the episode, Rob, because I was like, oh, my God, now we both live in a house with two toddlers. Like, I know. Rob's having the same experience I'm having right now. Because it's like you wake up to quiet and you go, I don't want to move. I don't want to move.

I don't want to breathe. I don't want to risk. And it's just the stuff you don't know until you know it. And I was giggling thinking about you watching that scene. Oh, as soon as you have kids sleeping, like everything, as soon as the house is quiet, it becomes like the hurt locker. But you're like, don't you make a single sound. It's so funny. Don't shake the floorboard.

of the house. Oh my gosh. With our son, he was not a good sleeper. And so, like, as soon as he was actually down, if any, it was that, like, that thing where just like if one of us made a sound, you'd be like, shh, shut the, shut up, shut up, no, you shut up, shh, you know, like whisper fighting because you were just so deadly afraid of protecting this small window of peace. Yeah, it's incredible.

I also love that as they're so confused by the fact that they've gotten sleep and the fact that the babies are quiet and what the fuck is going on. Why is Victoria baking? I loved Daphne's delivery of, you don't see your father doing any of this. And it's like, oh, I see what you're up to, lady. Okay. It's perfect. Thank God Dan's back.

You know, you don't realize how much. I was aware he wasn't in season eight, but like I didn't realize how much I missed him until he's back. And he is just that like, drama, umami. Yes. I'm like, oh, that's it. I also love the flip of Julian. This is so good, Victoria, and it cuts to Nathan going, this is not good, Hales. And it's like, it's all the parents.

It's just parental drama. And no matter how old we get, we need it. We need the parents in the show. And there's not really any inherent comedy with what's happening between Nathan and Dan, but they built in this really great comedic device where Haley and, uh, Nathan are talking in their bedroom. And she was like, listen, I realize you weren't here. I didn't know what to do.

And she basically says, I told him if you want him to go, he has to go. And it smash cuts to Nathan standing over Dan in bed going, you have to go. It was just such a great device, you know? Yeah. And that whole storyline, you know, like you. It's great. Dan Scott is the ultimate Joker card. He's the wild card.

Like, you just don't. know what he's up to and several times in this episode because he's so believable when he's when he's I don't know air quotes pretending to be sincere but then you have moments like why is he eavesdropping on Nathan and Haley's private conversation in their bedroom not cool boundaries also the end of the episode when Nathan leaves and he basically tells him like hey man you can be here for right now but you need to have an exit strategy in place very very soon and as soon as Nathan goes and Dan has like that line to Jamie where he's like, don't worry, I'm going to be here for a while. Yeah.

You're like, what is it? Yeah. And the device of Jamie, like having a kid old enough to have their own relationship with someone, to have their own desires and running commentary. Also, in a weird way, adds to both the tension and the comedy of the Scott House right now. because as soon as you get that jump cut to Nathan saying, you have to go, there's sweet little Jamie being like,

you didn't set a place for grandpa, and he starts moving the dishes around on the table, and you're just like, oh, shit, they're going to have to eat their words now. And then, boom, Dan's at breakfast. It's all, it's really well. Dan Scott, I mean, he's the character where, I mean, you're going to stick around for that guy.

You're like, I want to see what this M. F is going to do, next because he is just in here causing chaos and yeah he's it's such a great character yeah can i pitch my fan theory that i came up with while i was watching this yes it's going to be out there right but i don't remember all the specifics but i do know obviously that nathan is he's on the cusp of being kidnapped right right is there a world in which dan scott who i know i know ultimately is the savior is also the perpetrator. I'm just saying, because here's why, right?

Remember in the episode in 901? There was a couple creepy instances of like Karen's Cafe front door was left open. There was someone jiggling the handle at the James house. And we were like, was it the gangster thing? It couldn't have been gangsters. It had to have been Dan Scott because Nathan wasn't even supposed to be in Europe at this, at that point in the storytelling. Because Clay was the one who was supposed to.

go. It was an 11th hour decision for Nathan to step in for him. So I just thought, I just found myself when I watched that shot of, of Dan standing there with, with Jamie, watching the car drive away. And because Dan Scott is Dan Scott, it is not outside the realm of possibility for him to orchestrate. I mean, listen, the season started with him setting his own place of work on fire, his own home and business. So I just thought, wouldn't. And so I'm just putting that out there, I don't remember the specifics and that might be disproved very soon, but I just thought like, wouldn't that be so Dan Scott to have your own son kidnapped so then you could be the hero and the good guy again? And by the way, you know why I like where you're going with this?

Because near the end of the episode, when Haley and Nathan are talking, she, oh no, no, it's when she's talking to date. And she essentially is saying, I am angry at you for what you did to Keith every day. And then she repeats that to Nathan saying, you know, he took Keith from us, but he also saved our son's life. So it's like her feelings about him are on a seesaw. There's the most horrible thing and the most amazing thing weighted on opposite ends, right? So how do you make the most horrible thing maybe go away? You have to do another one of the most amazing things, which is save the other person. Yes, and the conversation you're referencing was that.

Is that the one that we pulled out from and saw that he was in the hallway listening? Yes. Yes. Just saying. Rob, I mean, I'm in it. Oh, boy. Detective work over here. I'm impressed.

I'm very impressed. You are in it. You are in it. Stephen, all the fans are clamoring for Rob to start watching the show from season one because of his reactions to the things he learns. Like the fact that Brooke and Chase dated in high school. Dude. And now I'm like, should you be? Should you be going back and starting, or are you going to, like, are you going to write the fan fiction?

Are you like, I don't know. Why not both? I'll wear a couple hats, guys. Let's do it. Okay. Yeah, I'll recap and fanfix. Let's do it. I love it.

Poor Quinn. Oh, man. It's so heavy. You know what really was a shot to the heart for me was that beautiful scene with you and Chantel where you're fighting her on therapy and she doesn't understand why and she has to stop you by saying this is happening to me too

oh it just like it was like an emotional gut punch in a good way because it's the perfect way to explain what it is like to love someone who is in some version of danger yeah and when that like you know

when you're looking at your person and they're suffering, you're suffering too. And I thought it was really beautiful. She is exhibiting an Olympic level of patience and grace with this situation. Because Clay is being real obtuse and sort of, I think, just selfish and self-involved and thinking it's not having repercussions when she's having to just pick him up from the police station in random parks in the middle of the night. I mean, that's crazy, so scary. behavior because think about it that means your partner could be getting hit by a car like they don't

that's it's it's nuts so yeah has handled it so so so well and especially that he it's like it's just therapy you know it's not like it's a it's a serious medication that's going to change who you are as a person you know what i mean that would be a little i would make a little more sense to be stubborn about it but it's i felt for her that she was having to fight so hard for something that seemed incredibly reasonable. I did too. And then what I loved was we had the same aha moment in the vulnerable reveal with Clay that we had with Chris Keller in their own ways. When you finally say closer to the end of the episode, if if medication fixes me, then I'm sick. If it's in my head, then I'm crazy.

And I went, oh, okay. I understand why. I understand that he is experiencing such deep fear about what this could mean that he's terrified to know the answer. And, ah, he's not dismissing her feelings. He's not being dismissive of his own safety. He's really, really scared to know what's wrong. And it was a really nice moment to see for you. Yeah, because without that, he just seems like he's being selfish and unreasonable.

And then you hear that. And also, given his history, you're like, fair enough. You've gone through some serious traumas that you haven't really done the work around. It was a great scene with you, Rob, Chantelle, James, and Jackson when you're like, you told Nathan and she's like, of course I did. And you're all in the room going back and forth. And again, Jamie serves for the comedic device in the heavy situation. just like he's doing in the house with Nathan and Haley and Dan, with you guys, him getting so amped that Clay might be a werewolf. It's just, it's like chef's kiss. It's the perfect levity to let some of the pressure out of the valve. And again, great writing because they also found a moment to show the friendship and the care and the love between Nathan and Clay. Yeah.

That Nathan was about to make a really big sacrifice that wasn't going to be easy on his family. and he didn't think about it twice. Mm-hmm. So it was just, like, everything worked on multiple levels, you know? And Haley, being bummed, but getting it, you know, because, like, she also cares for Clay. It was, it was, all of it was great, man. It was all really good. It may look different, but Native culture is very alive.

My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for hundreds of years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence.

That's Sierra Teller Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball. Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive

while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, let's talk about Brooke's dad. How charming is Richard? It is so charming.

And the sexual tension between Ted and Daphne how much they hate each other but like it's a and the way they, they, because nobody throws a barb like Victoria Davis except for Ted

Davis. And seeing them go in a Ted a Tet, I'm obsessed with it. Also, no one dramatically pounds a martini better than Daphne Zuniga. No. Incredible. That was such a great moment.

But yes, the way he plays with her, the way he just sort of sits back with that smirk and just lobs, just grenades at her is so good. And this scene with Brooke and what's his name? Ted. It's Ted. Yeah, the scene with Brooke and Ted when he's very late for lunch.

I noted that it's, it is, he presents just the right amount of ick to be noticeable and slightly concerning, but not enough to be red flaggy. Yeah. And there's a really interesting thing because Brooke and Victoria have made it through their stuff. It makes sense that Brooke excuses the red, flags about Ted because they're always coming out of Victoria's mouth. And she's like, well,

of course you hate him. But look at us. You changed. He could change. So in a weird way, Victoria, it's like she could be his foil, but she can't be because she unfoiled herself. And it's really good, it's a good tug of war that they've given. And I love that Victoria tries to go to Julian for help. And he's just like, uh, uh, I just want Brooke happy. Leave me alone. As he's finishing the last crumbs of the coffee cake, which was such a smart choice to have him with that nearly empty plate of food.

The runner is so good. And it gives this great opportunity for us to see that Victoria really cares about Brooke. It's not just about being petty with her ex-husband. It's also her showing up to say like, don't burn her, you know, which made what I thought was going to be her getting stood up at lunch. So much more painful. Yeah. Yeah, it's good. I also just hats off to Daphne because I have so much fun working with her and they give us that, um, they give us our own version of a seesaw. And when she, when Brooke asks what's wrong and Daphne just rattles off that list, I'm not getting any younger. I'm not having any sex. My conniving ex-husband. And it's just

like, it's so, it's so, so great. And I love getting to see the dynamic they give to us where I get to be sassy with her and say, first of all, ew, second, and then we're into the thing. It's just like, ah, it's an energy that I miss. And very much like when you see Dan Scott and you go, God, I missed that guy. Like, whenever I see Brooke and Victoria kind of go at it, I want more. Yeah, that was my favorite line of the episode. episode. First of all, ew. So good. You guys worked so well together. I remember, I'm watching it. I remember taking acts of being on set and seeing whenever you guys worked together, it always kind of

stopped me to hang out and watch a little bit more of what you guys were doing because it was such a good dynamic between the two of you. So just to what you're saying right there, how there's like acknowledgement of something and then get to what Brooke needs to get to, right? Like, all right, I'm going to deal with that later. Like, clearly, you could just, you can see the history and the baggage between the two of them. And, uh, it's, yeah, it's, it's, it's, it's, um, when you guys are on screen together, it really, it really pops. Thanks, pal. I also love, there's things that I think I've realized through, you know, our adulthood and like, another ad for better help therapy. Like, so many people in our sort of age range have had to deal with the ramifications of being, you know, parental

children. And I was watching that argument. And I was like, oh, my God, look, Brooke literally has to parent her mom. Like, they get into it. And then she's like, do you know how ridiculous it is that I can only get you two to pay attention to me if I'm making clothes? I just want parents that want to spend time with me. And it's so, it's so spot on because they're her parents, but she has to parent them all the time. Makes me get go. Let me ask a question. Is it romantic or bold or inappropriate to move someone in without having even asked them first. I have the exact same question. I was waiting for you guys to bring it up, but I was just like, I'm just going to sit back

someone's got to mention because this is not, this is not normal. This is not. Not normal behavior. No. No. No, it's, I was even, I was asking my fiance, I was like, is this, would you find this way? we just find it creepy.

It was like, well, how long have they been dating? And she asked all those questions. I was like, see, you're having to ask a lot of questions. It's not an easy, yes. It's weird. It's all. Okay. Yeah.

I thought so as well. So here's the thing. And we've talked about this a lot. We talked about this last week. You know, in the first episode of the season, we were like, God, poor Stephen and Jan, I just had to be in a bed and half naked. But you guys are so good together. You have such great natural chemistry.

as co-stars that you make things that could feel icky really enjoyable to watch. And so the notes I wrote, I was like, wait a second. Chase talking to Chuck about this, it sort of seems adorable.

And then they get there and they're packing up her stuff. She's being given a choice. She's not, her opinion is not asked. It's actually really an overreach and kind of creepy. And yet, you and Janham,

make it so sweet. And her kind of overwhelm and you're like, here's your glasses and your picture and I knew you'd need these things and here's where I did all your toiletries. And it's, you guys are so sweet that you make a creepy situation less creepy. But I still think if someone did it to me, I might be like, oh, we're like two steps away from put the lotion in the basket. This is really, what's happening here? What I felt watching it was, and I don't remember this as much when we were

shooting it. I remember like, okay, this is what's happening. We need to commit to this. Like, you know, Chase is really just trying to put his best foot forward and trying to display his love for her, which, by the way, before he tells her he is in love with her, he tells Chuck is the first person he tells about it, which is just kind of a little odd for me as well. I mean, it's weird, but it's sweet. Yeah, yeah, right. And I think at the undercurrent of it all, it's like he is trying to be sweet, right? And it comes from a sweet place, but yeah, the delivery is not quite smooth and it does not. Yeah. I don't think it would be accepted by most folks. I feel like somebody like, you know what, that's cool. I love that he took that. That's great.

But for me, the problem I have with it is that it was like he was not going to give her a chance to say no, even after the fact. Because when we get into him, like I've got the surprise for you, she comes over and then he is showing her your pictures on the wall right your glasses are on the nightstand the makeup is in the bathroom you don't have a choice

you cannot stay there's no way you can say I'm not ready for this or I'm a little creeped out like so that that's it was like oh man like she she has to be okay with it but yeah it was it was an odd

odd um odd display of love but you know what Maybe fan fiction, Rob, can we, but can we say he was just so drunk on love trying to, you know, he needed to get it out and he hadn't said it yet and he decided to take action by moving stuff? That's how I can make sense of it, right? I still think it's a huge misstep because you're not inviting someone to cohabitate. You are you are making a decision, a unilateral decision, and then you are choosing where they get to take up space. it's no it's really bad right that's it doesn't feel like collaboration it feels like claim yes and but here here's why because you chase also has a line that really bummed me out in a big way which is after you say i love you and you guys have sex you're laying there and apropos of nothing you just go

or chase goes it's okay you didn't say it back and she's like huh and you go it's okay you didn't say I love you back and I'm like if this isn't the most no therapy backwards way to try to get into the conversation you want to have but the reason why here's why I think it works if we're gonna why I would argue that it's fine the way it is is everything you did that Chase did is born of good intention I don't think Chase did it to be controlling I think Chase did it because he loves her and he wants to show it and I think then he also this the circling back on that didn't say I love you. He's insecure, you know, and he's trying to sort of feel that out. And because you play the role with such sincerity, that's why I think it works. That's exactly it. I buy a 25-year-old dude, whatever you're supposed to be at this point, who is putting on his adult pants for the first time, it's awkward and it's clumsy. And so I understand all of it. Yeah. This feels like the relationship to Chase is one that he does not, and again, it could sound creepy at first, but he does not want to let go. He does not want to let this one go. He doesn't want to lose it

after, you know, considering what's happened in his past relationships. And, um, which is kind of ultimately, you know, where we know this ends up, which is so tragic about it all is because him coming off of having this relationship with me and what she meant to him and really not wanting to screw up the next one and really wanting to make the next one work. You know, I feel like when you see it with the little like love triangle that they're in, like Chase was it out of his league and it was like he did not want to be in the situation it's not you know it's that's not something that like he found himself in often and so now that he's got a girl that he feels struggling about he feels like it's reciprocated he's like okay like let's make the steps

for her to to 100% know that I'm all in and hopefully that'll want her to maybe stick around right or any opportunity that she might have to question the relationship relationship, question his love for her or go somewhere else, she would be, she would not be able to take it because, man, what a great thing that we have. And that's the way I felt about it. Like for seeing his, like, I can't let anything come between this. So like, let's just get, you know, let's get this train rolling. And, you know, there's something to be said about, you know, moving too quick or being too eager. And I think in that situation, you know, while it's coming from a good place, you're seeing him too eager. And ultimately it's going to bite it. But.

Well, I think that's a really. astute observation because especially when you're younger, you know, if you think about like a pendulum swing, if you think you've made a mistake, the way to do it differently is actually to come to center. But so often people go like, well, I did this dumb thing. Let me go do this thing over here. And it takes, you know, time to learn not to do that, to not swing so hard in the other direction to try to course correct. May or may not be. saying that from experience, who knows? Oh, are we all? Are we all?

Are we all? 100%. I think that's a real thing. And I think that's what you're observing and that's what makes it feel really grounded. And to Rob's point, you're really genuinely excited about it. So it doesn't feel creepy coming from Chase. But I also think as adults were like, oh, a bad call, man. No, no.

We know better. And that's not the vibe. And as someone who likes Chase and roots for Chase, one thing I will say is that he has good instincts because we learned last season from his little confessional with Julian when he was stuck in the middle of a love triangle, he made the surprising decision of saying no to both of them. And so had he stuck with what his gut told him, like he was right. you know what I mean like his gut his gut was right so I feel like and then like we see the stuff with Chuck it we are just watching a young man grow up but at his core like all of the right things are there you know his like his morality's there his instincts are good and seem to be on you know and like so we're just watching him go through the trial and error of figuring it out

but he's a good guy you know he's going to get there we're just watching you know some rough drafts. You know what I felt? It's like, I remember thinking about this with Chase, to what you're saying, I think you hit it on the head, man. It feels like he always, he wanted to do the right thing, did have a good set of morals and values around him, but would find himself experiencing life where it's like, I don't care who you are and how perfect you aspire to be in life.

Like, you're going to, you're going to step in SHIT at some point, you know? And you're going to have your issues and your problems with certain people or you're going to, some people aren't aligned with you and how you handle that. And so I think that that's what I see is like, you know, Chase's core, it really does mean well. But it's just the execution is not always smooth. Yeah. I think that's really smart. Which is great. But it breaks my heart because at the end when she goes and says to Chris, I want to go on the tour.

I was like, too much, too much, too much. She's pulling parachute. Oh, God. Yep, yep. Especially like when you see someone has completely dropped their armor and they're like, well, nothing here but vulnerability. And then you see that they're about to get just completely caught off guard. I'm sad for you. I'm nervous for next week.

It was a, yeah, I remember it was kind of a shocking, I mean, look, it's TV, this stuff. It's like, right, when you get the bow on the. present and it's ready to go, then it's, you know, someone's going to steal it, right? Or it gets ripped apart. Like it, that's, um, with the journey and for Jason and Alex, you know, all right, this, you think. And I remember going like, all right, that's cool. Let's see how they interact as like a couple that is feeling secure together. How are they going to take out on the world together? What are they going to have to navigate together as a couple? And, um, we don't really see that. We don't really get that because it's, you know, the rug's pulled out from underneath it.

And that's it. And I remember being disappointed that all of a sudden, all right, we weren't going to, you know, see Alex as much anymore. Yeah. I know it's hard. And I want to, you know, circle back to the questions we had before. And I have the question I get often where I read a convention or something, which is where I feel Chase is best suited between the Mia and Alex of all. and I really did screw up by like kind of like give it a half big answer about oh I think Mia would be a good one because watching this and watching some of the end of season and seeing what Alex and Chase had together and seeing how Jana plays Alex like really really some great stuff and it's bringing back a lot of good memories of working with Jana she's a fantastic actress and her Alex is so good that the character she's she's so good on screen so there is a strong strong strong case for what could have

been 100% with Chase and Alex. Yeah. I agree. I listen, I have no idea how the rest of the season wraps up. I'm assuming because I thought you and Mia were like always end game that it's going to be you and Mia or Chase and Mia.

And if that's the case, boy, I just sure hope there's a good reason for it and it's not just, well, you're the last girl left in town. You know? I agree. I love Chase and Alex. I have been so pleasantly surprised that it has gone on for as long as it did because like I said I thought you guys had like a

one episode thing and that was it so you are in for a curveball I do know what comes next and I wish I can see I wish I could see you watch it I'll text you I'll text you after I'm sure I'll know the episode yeah yeah yeah yeah oh it's a doozy my friend

it is a doozy it is a doozy is very alive. My name is Nicole Garcia, and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture. It was a huge honor to become a television writer because it does feel oddly, like, very traditional. It feels like Bob Dylan going electric, that this is something we've been doing for a kind of two years. You carry with you a sense of purpose and confidence. That's Sierra Taylor Ornelis, who with Rutherford Falls became the first native showrunner in television history. On the podcast, Burn Sage Burn Bridges, we explore her story, along with other Native stories, such as the creation of the first Native Comic-Con or the importance of reservation basketball.

Every day, Native people are striving to keep traditions alive while navigating the modern world, influencing and bringing our culture into the mainstream. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Well, we have a listener question, which is interesting because we are talking about how things wrap up. And Chris wants to know, going into the final season, was there a sense of pressure or responsibility to give longtime fans the ending they deserved? I feel like that pressure was more on the writers, don't you? That's what I was going to say.

I think it's really tricky when you. you are an actor because, yes, of course, you want, you want things to be beautiful and everyone knows how hard it is to, you know, wrap up a whole series in a perfect bow. But I think it would be so much harder, you know, to be like a Quinta or someone who writes and stars in their own show. I think I would have like a nervous breakdown for a series finale if I had to write And I agree with you guys I think it's definitely all it's the writers or the real heroes

and this right there are the ones that are putting that story down and then we show up to play it but I would feel you know I would not feel appropriate answering that question I feel like Sophie you would be the one just because you've been there from the beginning you know and I'm curious

because you I actually can't like I speak for you but I would feel like maybe if I was in your shoes I was from the beginning and I knew the impact that this show had that were you going into the last season just hoping and praying that they were going to do right by your character

and did you at all feel the pressure of like oh no what's like how are they going to put a bow on on the brook of it all what's it going to be were you very curious to ask them even going in or at the end of season eight I mean I thought the end of season eight was really beautiful we talked a few weeks ago about how

it really did feel like a serious finale because we all thought it was going to be. You know, I remember even like an amazing conversation I had. I went out to dinner with two of the writers in like the last few weeks of season eight and I won't, I won't say who they are because I don't want to blow them up on the internet. But like, there were things where they were like, oh my God, now we can finally tell you this story or we didda-da-da-da. And then we all came back and we were like, I mean, we'll be friends forever, but it is all so really awkward that now we know these things and we're here we have to like work with that person or whatever i i think for me you know

to rob's earlier question like about lee's storyline we obviously like our boss was an incredibly talented writer who ran an incredibly talented writer's room and also a vindictive unkind person in some really terrible ways at terrible times and what i think was hard about knowing we were going to wrap up and seeing some of the things happening for people was like people were getting really amazing stuff that it did feel like the characters deserved and then people were getting dunked on in really unkind ways and I just remember thinking like I really hope those things can stop by the time we get to our 13th episode because this show means so much to so many people to all of us

to the crew, but to the people who watch it. And I hope it's great. And I remember near the end, you know, spoiler alert, if you haven't watched it, speed up. But I remember near the end when Julian builds the high school on the soundstage, we had this scene in the hallway. And the scene just didn't feel great. Like, it was a it was a very normal conversation between Brooke and Julian. And I remember saying to, you know, the wonderful Greg Pange, like, can I just have a second? Can I just talk for a second? And I just talked about our show and us and this place. And they put everything that I ad-libbed in the episode. And like that for me felt to answer Chris's question. Like, that's where I felt it. I was like,

in this moment, like, I can't be Brooke Davis standing in front of Peyton's locker with nine years of history and, like, not say more. And they let me try one and then it made the episode. And like, that was the moment where I was like, okay, I got to sprinkle a little bit more for me and for our, for our fans, too. That's awesome. Super cool. And you used the word hope multiple times in that explanation. And that's what I was going to say is I didn't feel a.

sense of pressure or responsibility, I mean, beyond the normal responsibility of, you know, trying to play the characters as well as I could. I would say I had a sense of hope of just really crossing my fingers that we were going to land the plane and we were going to stick the landing. And I think by when we were shooting episode 13, especially like that the real kind of the wrap up of it, feeling like, okay, this feels like we're in the right sandbox with giving that sort of like the respectful happy ending to this world that we've created. and hopefully the fans feel the same way.

Yeah. Especially after the potential of a few seasons ending and being like this could be very well could be the last episode where everyone was convinced that maybe it was and that it would come back

and it would come back again. Come back again. I also just remember you know it was a mix of emotions for all of us, right? Like everyone was ready to be done but also we didn't know what was coming next and it's sad to think about leaving your friends

and whatever hit me in our last episode I mean I cried for two straight weeks every time I looked at any of you every time I looked at like Maddie doll on the camera I just I just kept sobbing and Tim was like you have to stop crying your makeup off and I was like I'm sorry like it I don't know it was so

it was like a really special bittersweet thing it was important it was a very important part of all our lives during that time. I mean, at least for me, it's something I look back and think about, you know, a good chunk of my 20s growing up with you guys out there. And you feel I'm so fortunate to not only the experience work-wise, but the experience just with the people, you guys and the times that we had offset together were always so fun. And those memories I cherish dearly, dearly to have that, especially, you You know, to get growing up in Southern California, to find myself in a little town on the, on the East Coast, not just for four years of college or something like that, but, you know, for a good chunk of, you know, of a decade and making something that we were all so happy to actually have the opportunity, the dream job, the job that we always hope that we get.

So cherish those moments, even though, you know, I think, yeah, by the time you get to season nine, a lot of people were like, all right, we've been doing the show for a very long time. Maybe it's time to move on to something else. But, you know, for me, it was like I'd popped in season six and then, you know, getting to season nine, I was around a lot more. But I also felt even at that point, like, you know what, it's, it feels like it's time. It's been a great run. And it does feel like it's time to put this down. To set it down, not put it down like an injured horse, guys.

Yes, yes. Humanely, yes. Just frame it and put it on the shelf. There you go. Yes, yes, yes, sir. Jetly, gently set it down. Stephen wanted to take one tree hill out behind the barn and old yellow it. I didn't even realize put it down what I was saying.

Oh, man. Send it to Basher. Oh, will you want to spin a wheel with us, buddy? Okay, yes. Most likely to. Let's do this. Most, oh my, my gosh, I've never seen this before. Watch, it's going to be most likely to cry through the workday.

I'm like, me. Most, Stephen, you read it. Most likely to binge watch an entire season of a show in one day, Rob Buckley, easily. Free kids, yes. Well, because you would have it just on in the background. Like, you wouldn't sit there and watch a show all day, but you'd like to just have, I remember this when we were rumies, you would have, like, Veep would always be on the background, maybe New Girl.

Like, a great comedy is just like sometimes the music you have in your house. Or at least it was when we were living together, which I loved. So it's like, and you know, you kind of pop in and view from time to time. But I would put you on there as, and maybe it's not the true, you know, sitting down and watching every minute. But, yeah, you're like, if we had to go through the log of like, all right, how many times does this season been watched by the three of us? Just just from the loop that you would have on a TV, it's like it's got to be rough. Yeah, yeah, especially. How many years did we live together?

I was trying to do this math because it started on one, I poached you from James. You were living with James at the beach initially. Yes, and then in this final season, which I'm surprised we really talked. about because like man the fun we had like being such nerds video gaming like just like like with candy like going out like just having candy then like just like wandering the streets like we're like it's so funny like we would just go out like and I've honestly it'd be like a sugar high half the time and like we were just kind of mosey around and yeah and like you know what we need at at two in the morning like where is there a coffee joint that's open because we want to like play video

games for another like two hours. Like, let's go to a CBS 24 hour and get some like, uh, you know, espresso shots. You were getting like energy drinks and chaco tacos out of the freezer. For real, like muddy buddies. And then we remember our brief kick, uh, as being graffiti artists? Oh, I didn't know if you were together. I was like, yeah, because that's kind of illegal. And, um, yeah. But we don't have to admit to anything. We just really liked street art for like four weeks. Yeah. Yeah. And did we maybe target like construction sites that like sup was going to be painted over? Yes. We, we talked about that.

We were curious. You were responsible vandals. Yes. I like that. Exactly. We also had a, we would have index cards. Of course, we were coming up with brilliant ideas, just the most profound ideas the world has ever seen. And usually sometimes they're just like a picture of like a cartoon character or there were an idea.

We'd write it on an index card and we'd stick it to the wall. And then we have this giant collage of like 200 index cards on our apartment wall. with like some of the most stupid ideas. That's right. Or just if someone said something funny, like a funny line, we would write it down. Oh my gosh. I remember that. Well, oh, yeah, living together season nine.

What's a special season? It was. All right, buddy. I love you. Thank you so much for making the time and coming to hang out with us, dude. It's always the most fun. I appreciate it. This is a treat and, you know, such fond memories, as I said, with you guys.

And I just, I look up to you guys so much and so great. for the way you guys treated me on the show whenever we were out there from the beginning of course so to as a roommate and a buddy out there Rob like we had so much fun so I adore you guys 100% feelings mutual We adore you

Oh next episode guys season 9 I can't believe that I'm going to get emotion Season 9 episode 3 Love the way you lie Finally a song title That I actually know It took us nine seasons but we got there. Who's the artist? Rihanna.

Oh, of course. Rate born. Great soul. Yeah, it's a good one. All right, everybody. Thanks for tuning in. Stephen, thanks for joining us. Crushin. 100%. Thank you guys. Hey, thanks for listening. Don't forget to leave us a review. You can also follow us on Instagram at Drama Queens. OTH. Or email us at drama queens at iHeartRadio.com. See you next time.

All about that high school, drama girl, drama girl, all about them high school queens. We'll take you for a ride and our comic girl, cheering for the right team. Drama queens, drama queens, smart girl, rough girl, fashion but you'll tough girl. You could sit with us, girl. Drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens, drama queens. It may look different, but native culture is alive. My name is Nicole Garcia and on Burn Sage, Burn Bridges, we aim to explore that culture.

Somewhere along the way, it turned into this full-fledged award-winning comic shop. That's Dr. Lee Francis IV, who opened the first native comic bookshop. Explore his story along with many other native stories on the show, Burn Sage Burn Bridges. Listen to Burn Sage Burn Bridges on the IHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This is an IHeart podcast.